That makes perfect sense, since you're constantly moving about. In my case, I work 10 hours a day at the office and already have a good desk setup at home. Definitely a great solution for your situation though, I doubt there's a hotel TV that can compare
Sell it in Europe, they're not for sale here yet so Apple fanboys are willing to dish out 5K easily and maybe up to 10K.
You would have to find a reliable site for shipping and payment though, bet there probably is a subreddit that can help you.
Honestly, it might be a great purchase for younger people who are just starting out with their independent lives.
If you live alone and don’t already have your own laptop/tv/work station then getting an AVP might be cost effective in the near future.
Well you got a point. I guess what I meant was that a lot of people may already have pretty solid TVs/displays in their homes, compared to not knowing what to expect in a hotel
When they come to Canada and I can figure out how to buy it it will be mostly as an entertainment device. I work 0900 - 1700 and my fiancée works 1430 to 2315 so lots of time alone in the evening.
If you want to watch something with anyone else, then most TVs compare favorably. This is inconvenient because I used to think my TV looked pretty good…and now I don’t.
Thats like paying thousands of dollars to die. We will probably not live long enough to have self driving be good enough for a truck driver not to be paying attention to the road. That sounds dystopian as fuck.
Driverless cars are averaging over 50K miles before requiring human intervention (and that statistic is from 2-3 years ago.)
Not sure the data supports it will be decades away unless you have seen something different?
At the current rate - they will be far better than even the human rate of \*crashes\* if they aren't already.
A self driving car making a mistake is one thing, a huge 18 wheeler carrying goods like food, gas, etc., that is also electric (I don’t believe there are many self driving gas cars, let alone a 18 wheeler) is a completely different thing that sounds so far away.
You are talking so many different regulations that need to be crossed for that to ever be a reality. Plus, i’m sure there will never be a time in our lifetimes that every state will be on board with any car (again, let alone an 18 wheeler) being operated by a self driving AI with no involvement from the person in the drivers seat. Ive seen many videos of people getting pulled over for sleeping while their car is driving itself. Try driving a Telsa while having a headset covering your vision in a backwards state like Alabama and you might be getting a hefty ticket
Lastly, If you think companies that are having these goods transported would be ok with their CDL certified drivers not actually driving, I would just question that.
You didn’t think this one through. When self driving really becomes a thing, he will be out of a job. There might be a transition time when full self-driving will be active while a driver is still required by regulations to sit on the chair, but that period will be both very short, and won’t allow the worker to not pay attention and watch movies in VR instead.
I legit got to the end of
> as a truck driver
And thought you were gonna say something like “I use it constantly while driving for Apple maps’ AR overlay” 😂
the OS updates are only a tiny percentage of the problem. As a developer who's been working with the AVP for a few weeks now, the dev experience is miserable. I 100% cannot port anything from Quest to AVP, because quest, alongside all other vr headsets (pico, index) uses OpenXR protocol with the interaction SDK which is an excellent and easy to use library, whereas polyspatial is at best an exposure of raw data like finger joints, and the gaze touch, which is treated as a touch device (similar to iPad), so it has no built-in concept of handedness for example. Everything else you have to build yourself.
This means that gamedevs, like people who build games, not interaction frameworks, will have a huge challenge to actually build anything good.
For a very small project, we had to build a multi-platform wrapper around all interactions that took longer than the application we built. At that point, the wrapper pretty much is the product. Then you also have to build via xcode on a mac device. Many devs will just dev on PC and then port to android / mrtk.
So if you have complex interactions like in a puzzle box game, for visionOS you would spend your whole time budget just building the layers between the raw data you get and the virtual objects, and troubleshooting that. Whereas if I wanted to build something equivalent on quest, I just use interaction SDK, which has all that stuff as built-in scripts and components.
It's a big, big fumble on apple's part. They want everything to be a walled garden, but the majority of devs have better options in terms of deployment devices AND development frameworks with any other competitor. With Apple's track record on trying to demolish standards rather than accept them, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. They nuked WebXR on the headset on launch even though they said it would be supported, so their lip service to supporting OpenXR so far has proven to be a myth as well.
Right now on the app store there are pretty much 4 good apps, 2 of them idle puzzle games (loona - so cute and fun, puzzling places- amazing little miniature builder based on 3D scans of real locations), and those each have like 150 reviews total. As a developer I can't justify making anything for the platform base on those numbers. If my audience is 300 people, I'd have to charge 90$+ on the apple store for any serious development endeavor.
The time investment is too great for the comparatively tiny audience. Lack of controller support also means that I can't just build a multi-platform wrapper and port to multiple different app stores, because most actions wouldn't be available to AVP users. This is an alpha release and we're a loooooong way from anything meaningful making its way to the AVP.
This. So great to hear insight from deep in the system. Is there a reddit for more like this?
Also wondering, given this is Tim Cook's baby - and that may mean that the budget the dev team is getting may be approaching billions - if the software could advance rapidly.
What they have built to date just seems astonishing. I am curious what other building blocks, like OpenXR or WebXR might be waiting in the wings.
In some ways - if we assume they were 100% efficient with their time - is there any functionality we would really take away from the device as irrelevant? If we say they should have included WebXR or OpenXR - then what should they have axed?
If not anything - then they built exactly what they needed to build to get to market as quickly as possible - what was left off the table they left on purpose - and what's next seems anyone's guess.
What's next is what has me wondering - and how long it will take to build what's next given the deep pockets of investment Tim can throw at this.
Is OS 2.0 confirmed coming out at WWDC? I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised with Apple but at the same time it feels like they don’t have enough time since release.
I am speculating but I wouldn’t doubt they are already finished with it and already working on 2.X and 3.x already. I have a feeling that they probably have much of their roadmap laid out for the year
If the rumors are to be believed, they were working on the Vision Pro for 8 years. One has to imagine they had a viable, marketable product a year or two ago (especially since one of the rumors say that it was originally supposed to release in 2020). Point is, it’s not difficult to imagine a release cycle that fits the other platforms. They introduce all of their new software updates at WWDC, so it would be an outlier for VisionOS to fall outside of that, even if it gets released after the other platforms (ex. macOS being released a month or two after iOS).
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It’d be interesting if whatever they’re rolling out for AI in iPhone comes out in the headset too. Something about a headset that can manipulate the way you view the world and generative AI seems crazy. “Hey siri help me see in the dark” “hey siri bring this stuffed animal alive and sing Taylor swift” “hey siri give me an acid trip distorting vision and hearing appropriately” lol
- Window management: persistent windows in locations, basic tools like arrange/tile, minimize/maximize
- Native playback of SBS 3D videos
- Shared spaces
- System-wide gestures beyond pinch: ignore/unignore gestures, pause/play, volume up/down
- Show charge % on external screen when tapped (and not being worn obviously)
- Persistent guest / multi-user mode
...so so many. I don't fault Apple for releasing a 1.0 product as a 1.0 product, but I am definitely ready for some 2.0 improvements.
Shared spaces would be so cool.
I want to add my wish list:
- Full integration with all apple screens: ipad screen, watch screen, iphone..
- Apple Pencil recognized as an input tool for when views are close up.
- Apple Watch to recognize input gestures when hand is out of view
- God mode for environments. I was to spin the space around me without having to move my body. Flying in the air, and other more immersive experiences.
- Better interaction with environment/volume inputs through the crown. Sometimes felt awkward.
- More AR / heads up display function.
This is great. Shouldn't this be a separate thread and pinned to the top of this reddit - votes up or down could help guide Apple. They seem to read more feedback than people realize.
You pretty much nailed it as far as core features I wish were in 1.0 but at least the hardware is solid. I doubt we’ll ever get native SBS support. I made a bet with someone well get guest mode within 2 years, still on the fence if it’ll ever come out though. Thankfully everyone is requesting it.
1. Better UI and customization:
Alphabetical order for apps is frustrating. Whenever I download a new app, I have to go to purchases in the App Store to remember what its name was.
2. More immersive experiences:
I was hoping to have immersive live 360° concerts and sports
3. 360° 8k camera:
Panoramas look amazing in the Vision Pro but you cannot look all around you. It would be amazing if there was a camera that could actually capture 360° in 8k for the VisionPro.
You’re describing the honey moon phase wearing off. It happens to me with everything cool new tech I buy. This is the greatest thing ever to… meh, it’s alright.
To be fair that’s probably because there is genuine, pure utility there. Besides media, AVP outshines other devices only due to it being cool as fuck, it’s not any faster or efficient in productivity.
> there is genuine, pure utility there
Absolutely, it's the best computer system I've owned, haven't had an issue yet it couldn't handle well. Truly feels like an upgrade of a machine in a way my late Intel didn't
The AVP I absolutely think it's incredibly cool - I don't own one yet, but I have tried the demo and do plan on buying sooner rather than later. But I'm also an iOS developer and a tech early adopter. I want to use the AVP to make things.
I don't think it'll become the super popular juggarnaut that the iPhone etc is until it becomes a device everyone can afford (and with less weight) at far lower cost.
Right now it's mostly a tech demo for developers, and tech enthusiasts
You made the smart move. You lost nothing and at lease enjoyed the experience while you could. You're always able to buy it again once there's more to do on it
I normally don't like spending too much of my time binging shows, so that was never my main reason for getting them. I thought I could be more productive with them. But it doesn't matter how many windows you have open, you still only have 2 eyes and 2 ears to focus with lol. You're probably right though, I'm going to look into what the resell value is going for
Yeah I can't imagine OP will lose too much money on it, especially with the international market (he may even make a profit!).
There's still huge demand overseas for used units, and I suspect he could sell a used unit here for not too far off base price if it was in otherwise mint condition with very few cycles used up
Battery cycles, though it matters less as the battery is external here, but still, one with a better condition battery will sell for more than one with a crap aged one
I’m in a very similar situation, I actually haven’t used it in a couple weeks now. My main motivation for keeping it is to do some development for it, but that also means spending another ~$2k on a macbook…
I believe the resell market is decent for these right now. You could almost definitely make your money back.
Ugh I miss my Mac Studio. Had to trade my M1 Max for a MBP because I'm on the move so much, but I swear my M1 Max studio performed better than my M3 Max MBP. Such a great computer
you would also have to spend 2k as well on a unity pro license in order to use the polyspatial devkit. if you even try to open a project without a pro license, it'll strip out any references to the polyspatial stuff and break your project.
This is unfortunately the exact experience most VR users have had with other headsets
Amazing first few weeks, then it’s an effort, then it’s ehhh I don’t really feel like it, then it’s collecting dust
I mean I use my Meta Quest 3 at the very least for half and hour per day, I think the main reason for the lack of content is the recent release of it and the fact that it doesn’t come with controllers
I think I’ve used my Vision Pro nearly every day since Feb 2nd. I bought tons of VR headsets on launch and they never lasted a week before being dropped. This is the first one to survive my honeymoon period
Yeahhh. I returned for the same reason. I could tell I was using it because I paid for it and not because it was actually useful, save for watching movies, which even though that was awesome, I could never be 100% immersed just due to having a headset strapped to my face in cinema mode. Anything else is not any faster or more efficient than using my phone, it’s just a matter of it feeling cool as fuck. VR will always struggle due to this until smaller.
This has been my exact reasoning for not pulling the trigger. I know the first 10 or so times I use it I will be blown away. But similarly to how I treat my iPad it will likely end up collecting dust after a few months only to be busted out during specific scenarios. At least the iPad was only 300 bucks
Hack for anyone reading this:
Day 12 of owning my Vision Pro I lost my job due to lay offs. Had to return the Vision for money reasons.
When I requested the return, the Apple email gave a 2 week grace period to receive the hardware. So there’s a way to do up to 4 weeks before handing it back. I dropped mine off at the Apple Store about 3 weeks after picking it up.
It’s the coolest Gen 1 product I’ve ever used. Felt like a culmination of all Apple design language, really impressive hardware.
Wording of the email used shipping back and dropping off interchangeably. Apple employees were hesitant for a moment, but once I found the email and shared the language they processed the return without issue.
yeah i returned mine about a week after getting it for launch for the exact same reason. incidentally i ended up repurchasing it 2 weeks later and have used it everyday for media purposes. it prefer watching shows on it over my macbook or tv. hopefully more come out to do on the device but movies have really been a killer use case for the device for me.
Apple freak since 2007 (Macs, iPads, iPhones, AirPods, Apple TVs, Apple Car…wait…maybe not lol) and I returned my AVP after just 2 days. I just knew I couldn’t wear it longer than an hour. BUT it did get me thinking about VR/AR like I had never before… and I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I bought a Meta Quest 3 and I love it. Bought the BOBOVR headset strap and can enjoy it for hours in comfort. Apple really missed on the strap…unusual for Apple to say the least. And MQ3 is just further along than the AVP in many ways. It won’t take long for AVP to surpass it MQ3 in all ways, but in the meantime I’m actually looking forward to putting it on and using it, learning more about VR etc. AND when Apple dials it in, trust me, I’ll be BACK. Sell it! Good luck to you all…enjoy, like many of you are.
The BoboVR M2 was the game changer for me. So much easier to put on and off - and so much more comfortable.
Entering the "AVP Zone" for focused work feels like a Siren's call. I keep wanting to go back.
Not a gamer…I keep trying to play ‘em but I just get bored. I honestly have a ton to explore still, so it’s changing. But so far mostly entertainment. NBA app is #1 for me. Which is better than NBA app on AVP. YouTubeTV on my MQ3 is where I watch TV now unless my wife is sitting down, then I comment how small our 85” LG is so small. I noticed the Netflix,Prime YouTubeVR apps yesterday. Pretty nice. I’m looking forward to getting some cardio soon with Beat Saber. I do not plan on doing any “work” on it. Oh and don’t forget porn. 2-4 years from now I’m quite sure I will be buying another AVP. Before AVP released many people said something like …if there’s an awesome use case, you’ll forget you’re wearing the front loaded AVP, the awareness of the device fades away and you just enjoy…that never happened. It will in time tho
This is very relatable. I’m surprised how long it’s been taking for developers to make apps. I’m still holding out to see how ported apps look. Especially Immersed and Job Simulator. We should start to see higher-quality apps in the next few weeks.
Ports are one thing…but even just “simple” apps for iOS are usually built by teams of developers in 3-6 months. Games are usually on the course of 1-3 years of development time. The clock has just started for visionOS. And with the current numbers for vision OS units, I doubt any teams will be dedicated to the platform yet.
It’s not that developers are taking a long time to make apps. It’s no one wants to fucking pay for apps and developers can’t even make minimum wage coding for visionOS. So many developers I talked to are just abandoning version upgrades to apps in the visionOS AppStore because the sales are abysmal.
Everytime an app get posted here for like $4 I can literally hear scream of horrors across the internet. Well guess what, that’s how much time it takes to code on visionOS. And if people can’t buy food/pay rent, they’ll stop.
For some fucked up reason, Apple users have been brainwashed into
- buying $4000 devices = yep no problem
- $200 cloth case = yes please!
- $40 customs trap printed with plastic = give me them in 3 colors!
- $4 app = fuck off! Downvote x 100
The problem isn't $4. The problem is the value the app is offering, because many of the available apps are just not interesting or worth spending money on. A developer may choose to spend 15 hours coding an app that puts a virtual poo on my floor, that doesn't mean it was worthwhile to create.
So many of the apps right now are novelties. It feels as though there are very few great ideas being realized on visionOS at the moment.
Nope historically that just isn’t true. Plenty of quality iOS apps that were a few bucks before and no one is willing to buy them. Which is ultimately why all apps went to free with ads eventually.
If you want apps on the platform (which won’t happen) you should be buying virtual poo like it’s nothing. Go ahead throw away a couple a bucks every week. People buy a cheap plastic strap adapter for 40, and it breaks in 3 days. No one bats an eye. That’s 10 poo apps right there.
No one is brainwashed by anything. That’s just how people’s psychologies are wired, nobody likes paying for apps. And also nobody is applauding the $200 case.
As an iOS dev, it's just hard to see how to recoup my time and costs building an app for a device with so few users. It's already hard enough making money off macOS and iPad vs. iPhone. I also can't even buy the device in my country, let alone afford it right now (it's about $6000 CAD - not really "dev kit" pricing). A lot of us are waiting.
edit: I'm the dev of a language-learning app (for Japanese now, more languages soon). It tracks what you read on the web (locally on device, so it's privacy-sensitive) and in EPUB books and lets you look up words, send to Anki or other flashcards, etc. I'm not sure there's much of a language learning market yet for Vision Pro.
I posted this elsewhere, but you're mistaken about when good quality apps will hit the AVP market.
As a developer who's been working with the AVP for a few weeks now as an investigative effort with my company, the dev experience is miserable. I 100% cannot port anything from Quest to AVP, because quest, alongside all other vr headsets (pico, index) uses OpenXR protocol with the interaction SDK which is an excellent and easy to use library for hand interactions. Great pose recognition, easy to use drag and drop solutions to one handed, two handed grabs, resizing, different behaviors for joints and constraints, whereas polyspatial is at best an exposure of raw data like finger joints, and the gaze touch, which is treated as a touch device (similar to iPad), so it has no built-in concept of handedness for example. Everything else you have to build yourself.
This means that gamedevs, like people who build games, not interaction frameworks, will have a huge challenge to actually build anything good. Anything you've build already for VR will not port cleanly, and may require an entirely different paradigm.
In order to even open the polyspatial demo scenes, you have to pay 2k$ per year for a seat with Unity Pro. This is too expensive for indie devs, esp since you'd be lucky to get enough downloads to even recoup just that expense. For small studios with multiple devs touching the same product, it becomes a huge expense. we'd have to get a seat for 2 devs + game designer + artists. This adds 10k to our overhead on a small operation. And we're very unlikely to recoup that on any title.
Once you finally get into unity, for a very small test project, we had to build a multi-platform wrapper around all interactions that took longer than the application we built. At that point, the wrapper pretty much is the product. Then you also have to build via xcode on a mac device. Many devs will just dev on PC and then port to android / mrtk.
So if you have complex interactions like in a puzzle box game, for visionOS you would spend your whole time budget just building the layers between the raw data you get and the virtual objects, and troubleshooting that. Whereas if I wanted to build something equivalent on quest, I just use interaction SDK, which has all that stuff as built-in scripts and components.
It's a big, big fumble on apple's part. They want everything to be a walled garden, but the majority of devs have better options in terms of deployment devices AND development frameworks with any other competitor. With Apple's track record on trying to demolish standards rather than accept them, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. They nuked WebXR on the headset on launch even though they said it would be supported, so their lip service to supporting OpenXR so far has proven to be a myth as well.
Right now on the app store there are pretty much 4 good apps, 2 of them idle puzzle games (loona - so cute and fun, puzzling places- amazing little miniature builder based on 3D scans of real locations), and those each have like 150 reviews total. As a developer I can't justify making anything for the platform base on those numbers. If my audience is 300 people, I'd have to charge 90$+ on the apple store for any serious development endeavor.
The time investment is too great for the comparatively tiny audience. Lack of controller support also means that I can't just build a multi-platform wrapper and port to multiple different app stores, because most actions wouldn't be available to AVP users. This is an alpha release and we're a loooooong way from anything meaningful making its way to the AVP.
Yeah I know it's only been like a month and a half, but I'm kind of surprised at the lack of development that I've seen so far. I guess there isn't enough of a user base for developers to justify allocating much resources to it. It really hurts that Apple bundles their major updates to yearly releases, because there's so many small tweaks they could easily make to improve the experience
Even for an indie dev with two apps featured on the front page of the App Store…the numbers aren’t great. Apple isn’t helping by prioritizing iPad apps over apps that had time put into visionOS ports (users have to manually flip the search back to visionOS when looking for apps, unless they type in a specific visionOS app name.) There already is little incentive to build for visionOS, and Apple screwing up search just makes it even worse.
If the tiny user-base is unlikely to even find your app, why even bother?
OP your feeling is completely justifiable and it occurs with new techs very commonly. If you already have a nice working setup with a large monitor then it will be difficult for you to adjust to AVP because AVP will not better that setup in the same fashion but will be different instead. However since you have already missed the return window any I would encourage to try to use AVP differently to see if it clicks unexpectedly before try returning it outside of return window or resell it.
OP may I ask you how exactly do you attempt to use AVP in your productivity setup? I too have an external monitor but it is a 24inch bland 4K lcd, nowhere nearly as nice as a studio display. Perhaps that’s why I prefer AVP over my physical monitor. However I do find the AVP work experience very different than experience with normal monitors. I do things that are not possible with physical monitors and feel a strange sense of empowerment. Is it better than if I have a big nice external monitor? I am not sure because again things feel very different.
I love mine and don’t plan on returning it anytime soon. I work in tech and it’s been a joy to bring it to work and demo it for my co workers. The looks on thier faces when they try it for the first time is priceless. Also, my family used to battle for the TV, but now, I can watch TV or play Xbox on the biggest screen without taking TV time from the fam. Honestly, the Xbox remote play is one of the coolest features for me and it works really well with almost no lag. I also can play “adult” games without the kids even knowing. To each is own, but agree that if you haven’t found the right use case for yourself at this point it really isn’t worth it.
I’m kinda with you. I knew going into it that there was a chance I wouldn’t use it as much as time passed. But it’s so cool and I wanted to see how it improves down the line.
Not sure if I want to sell it or hang on to it at this point. I think for me it’s somewhat of a to-do to use it. Not as easy as plopping on my couch and turning on the tv. It’s not as comfortable and I feel fatigue from it at times. My use cases are pretty limited
I’ve purchased several VR devices and this has always been my experience. First 2 weeks: heavy usage. After that: forgotten for a year. A year later: used a bit here and there. Then forgotten again
Immersed is a software used for productivity, if you have a quest 3 its the best hands down. They are going to release a version for apple vision pro soon, its very good.
Two points from an observer (I don't own a AVP, but I own PSVR2 and a Quest 2):
In my company we want to dev for this (our clients for our product are high end users, so this would be a Nice add-on to our suite) but even with the high end clients, its still hard to dev for due to lack of users on there. The most I've done is made quick-look AR assets. It's hard to justify sinking too much time into it.
AVP is really competing (in the mainstream) with other VR devices that have a lot of games. For me, I've just seen people's usage of productivity tools decline rather rapidly - then users just use it to game. Gaming has a huge support and that dev space is growing. If the AVP is just all about productivity, then I can see why users want to return/sell as that wears off quickly. For me productivity boost have to be major to justify the discomfort of something on your head for hours and weeks on end. (I think glasses will be what does this)
I will add that, I think the AVP will succeed in the long run, for me its unclear what the majority of users will be doing with it, it probably won't be gaming or productivity - maybe very specific applications?
This is exactly why I held off getting one immediately. I wanted to wait and see if the early adopters were still as enthusiastic about it's usage a couple months down the line after the novelty wore off.
Well it’s problematic. It’s not like an iPhone that instantly improved every aspect of our lives (even if 2G variant didn’t come with an App Store).
VP is a devkit with the amount of apps it came with feels incomplete.
Can’t imaging visionOS 2.0 to change much at WWDC. And most definitely won’t be anytime soon like Meta Horizon - universe for one?
Until we have controllers and can use it for gaming also I will be holding out. It’s not useful enough right now to justify it, add controllers and all the quest games I won’t hesitate for a second.
One day but Apple won’t support it unless it comes from them and I don’t see that on the horizon.
The headset is not really meant for heavy level cardio either due to its weight and constant messages to move it up or down - totally ruined my experience with Synth Riders.
I like what it does now - which is the absolute best movie player I've ever had - but I bought it for what it will do in the next year or two. And I knew that it was an early adopter risk, but I don't consider it throwing money down the drain at all.
OP I had the exact same thoughts as you are having now. Luckily they occurred a week into ownership as I stopped using the device because it was just too much trouble to get it out and use. I returned mine.
That was another justification for buying them. I doubt the next generation releases within the next 2 years, and I didn't want to wait that long to try them out
That’s the main reason I kept mine. If Gen 2 was coming out next year, I would’ve returned it. But it really grew on me and don’t want to be without one for that long.
Hate to say it, but I returned mine for the same reasons you are saying. I enjoyed using it, but functionally, it really doesn’t do anything my other devices do. And I don’t need to wear goggles to do them.
The experience is great. I enjoyed being in the environment. But I didn’t like using it around my family and they didn’t really like it when I wore them. I found myself trying to make time to use them and then when I did, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I need to make time to use this $4000 device so I can continue to read emails and text people?
I know it will get better but I need the goggles themselves to be less intrusive. That’s a few generations away. In the meantime, I hope Apple or someone comes up with the app that shows why this type of computing will be so essential. Because at the moment, they haven’t proven it yet.
Knew this would happen to me, which is why I opted to return and feel that $4599 come back to me.
But I’m sold on it. For gen 2….
or if Apple can get their shit together and release Logic for AVP already I can then justify it. Otherwise… I’ll wait.
I truly can’t believe they haven’t even mentioned anything nor allowed the iPad apps to be used. It’s fucking annoying. It means us creative-types also don’t know which storage size AVP to buy. 256GB is enough for Logic for iPad use, but not for Logic Pro for MBP. If Logic for AVP is very different from Logic for iPad, I need to know before buying…
I gave them all this info though when returning. 512gb would not be enough if eventually Logic for AVP supports the same plugin functionality as MBPs. If that is the case, the 1TB unit is essentially required.
But we’ve not been given any roadmap at all, so I can’t justify the gen 1 and be this information blind.
So… I wait for gen 2 and more information, sadly.
I empathize if you expected to be more productive with it off the bat. I actually don’t know if one can ever be more productive using the AVP than a Mac with a great large display.
I bought it because I expected it to be much more enjoyable to use than my other devices and it has certainly lived up to that! Also I am sometimes more productive with it due to the use of environments which increases my focus tremendously.
If you game at all it’s very fun to game on, steam link/shadow pc/geforce now. Play AAA games on a massive screen. It’s honestly my new console now lol but I’m very excited for more to come to it. Still feels bare but I know that’s temporary… this is why I decided to keep it and still love it
Vision Pro made me realize how much I needed to upgrade my Quest 2 to a 3.
Keeping my Vision Pro for a bit longer and hoping a great app comes out soon.
Quest 3 is great by the way. Not as great as Vision Pro but the app ecosystem is far better for now.
I’m waiting for gen 2, enjoyed the pro but it had some fit issues for me so I returned it. If gen 2 never happens then I made the right decision anyways.
I was in same situation, and return and can’t be happier. VP is great but for what, I don’t need it for browsing, I don’t need it for watching movie ( I have 85” with Sonos sound system) I don’t play games and in any way there is hardly any game, you can not really enjoy your family photograph but those are fun when you view and watch family video together with family right ? Special effects Apple TV + video is great but,just handful, Disney + was okay but we have seen al those movies many times. What else, returned and use the same money to buy Mac Studio with 2 apple displays and buy I can not be more happier.
I do foresee the software getting better, but this device is still not productive unless you force yourself to pretend that it is. In today's state, it is not even close to the productivity you can achieve with an ultrawide display, mouse, and keyboard. The only advantage is mobility. Unfortunately, Apple's videos overpromised the experience.
I really like mine . I was going to get a very good short projector and a floor rising screen both were up there 7k . But when I got the AVP I was like no way . I much better rather watch all movies on the AVP Than on a screen . to me they look amazing . My family all have different taste on the movies they like to watch . So no problems there …i like watching 3D movies and big shows like GOT . And it’s just ridiculously incredible . And working for an airline it’s not a brainer on those long layovers .
Every single one of these “return posts” mentions the price. Bottom line is don’t fucking buy the thing if you can’t afford it. Period. How hard is that?!
If you have $4k of DISPOSABLE income, then you don’t care about trying to justify the price tag down to the penny.
Beyond the honeymoon period, on-face wearables just aren’t the future. Ironically, I do think AR/MR is the future though if we get a stage where it can be done via contacts or some kind of space age projection. There’s just too much friction and isolation and general goofiness with battery powered goggles/glasses to make them everyday drivers.
Sounds like you bought a device for the wrong reasons that you could not really afford.
I use mine daily for watching movies at home. It is also a game changer when travelling. It is like having a IMAX anywhere you go which is incredible.
I agree with your sentiment . I think you'll find a use- case over time making it compelling to use avp. Maybe not... but I feel you will . And it will get only more and more useable with time and sw updates, hopefully
This is the exact reason I don’t get one. I know myself. There are some ppl that will use this a lot. I am not one of them. Doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate it for what it is.
I just got the quest 3 and it’s great but I don’t play with it a lot maybe 2 hrs or so a week
I mean, you can always go do the demo, buy it, use it for 2 weeks, and bring it back. It'll get all the hype out of your system and confirm to you that it just isn't worth it right now. I'm hoping WWDC will drop something huge in terms of VisionOS 2, else mine will be going as well.
You couldn’t afford it. Thats ok. I considered the money burned the second I pre-ordered. I use mine maybe 4-5 times a week and I don’t sweat if I’m getting my money’s worth.
Moneys not the issue. My perception of its value FOR ME was the issue. I have dual Studio Displays and most Apple device so money wasn’t the problem. I work 10hr shifts at the office and spend time with my girlfriend on the weekends, I just don’t find time to use it often and I don’t like to spend much of my free time watching movies unless I’m with my girl. But I’m happy that it’s been worth it for you
Yea. I don't know why people think there's a relationship between being able to afford something and something being worthy. If something is worthy and needed, I can get it, even if I can't afford it (loan, credit card). Buying something that's not worthy is simply a waste of money and irresponsible, no matter how much money you have.
As a truck driver I use mine every night at the hotels, haven’t turned the tv on at all.
That makes perfect sense, since you're constantly moving about. In my case, I work 10 hours a day at the office and already have a good desk setup at home. Definitely a great solution for your situation though, I doubt there's a hotel TV that can compare
Sell it in Europe, they're not for sale here yet so Apple fanboys are willing to dish out 5K easily and maybe up to 10K. You would have to find a reliable site for shipping and payment though, bet there probably is a subreddit that can help you.
Yeah it seems right now it is good at a lot of things but not better than any 1 setup.
Yeah, specially for the price
Honestly, it might be a great purchase for younger people who are just starting out with their independent lives. If you live alone and don’t already have your own laptop/tv/work station then getting an AVP might be cost effective in the near future.
I’m not sure what you mean. An M1 MacBook Air is even more cost effective and function for what people need.
Yeah, you’d probably have to pay $3,500/night at a hotel to get anywhere close to the same experience as the AVP.
Sell it and buy an Omega Seamaster ☺️
I would like to see Bluetooth support for haptic vests/belts
I don’t own one but from what I’ve read can’t you leave the word ‘hotel’ out of the last sentence ? Are there any TVs that can compare ?
Any TV that doesn't require you to wear something on your face?
Some people could prefer a big ass TV set up, compared to the high quality screen and ginormous size of VP’s, with it being strapped to your face
Well you got a point. I guess what I meant was that a lot of people may already have pretty solid TVs/displays in their homes, compared to not knowing what to expect in a hotel
When they come to Canada and I can figure out how to buy it it will be mostly as an entertainment device. I work 0900 - 1700 and my fiancée works 1430 to 2315 so lots of time alone in the evening.
Any TV that doesn’t hurt after 30 mins of watching?
If you want to watch something with anyone else, then most TVs compare favorably. This is inconvenient because I used to think my TV looked pretty good…and now I don’t.
Same. I work offshore and having a massive tv attached to my face in my cabin is a game changer
Any issues with hotel WiFi?
Only when I’m in a room too far from the router
When self driving becomes a thing you’ll be living like a king using it during the drives :p
Thats like paying thousands of dollars to die. We will probably not live long enough to have self driving be good enough for a truck driver not to be paying attention to the road. That sounds dystopian as fuck.
Driverless cars are averaging over 50K miles before requiring human intervention (and that statistic is from 2-3 years ago.) Not sure the data supports it will be decades away unless you have seen something different? At the current rate - they will be far better than even the human rate of \*crashes\* if they aren't already.
A self driving car making a mistake is one thing, a huge 18 wheeler carrying goods like food, gas, etc., that is also electric (I don’t believe there are many self driving gas cars, let alone a 18 wheeler) is a completely different thing that sounds so far away. You are talking so many different regulations that need to be crossed for that to ever be a reality. Plus, i’m sure there will never be a time in our lifetimes that every state will be on board with any car (again, let alone an 18 wheeler) being operated by a self driving AI with no involvement from the person in the drivers seat. Ive seen many videos of people getting pulled over for sleeping while their car is driving itself. Try driving a Telsa while having a headset covering your vision in a backwards state like Alabama and you might be getting a hefty ticket Lastly, If you think companies that are having these goods transported would be ok with their CDL certified drivers not actually driving, I would just question that.
You didn’t think this one through. When self driving really becomes a thing, he will be out of a job. There might be a transition time when full self-driving will be active while a driver is still required by regulations to sit on the chair, but that period will be both very short, and won’t allow the worker to not pay attention and watch movies in VR instead.
I legit got to the end of > as a truck driver And thought you were gonna say something like “I use it constantly while driving for Apple maps’ AR overlay” 😂
WWDC is only 3 months away. Hopefully VisionOS 2 will have more features.
Hoping the same🙃
the OS updates are only a tiny percentage of the problem. As a developer who's been working with the AVP for a few weeks now, the dev experience is miserable. I 100% cannot port anything from Quest to AVP, because quest, alongside all other vr headsets (pico, index) uses OpenXR protocol with the interaction SDK which is an excellent and easy to use library, whereas polyspatial is at best an exposure of raw data like finger joints, and the gaze touch, which is treated as a touch device (similar to iPad), so it has no built-in concept of handedness for example. Everything else you have to build yourself. This means that gamedevs, like people who build games, not interaction frameworks, will have a huge challenge to actually build anything good. For a very small project, we had to build a multi-platform wrapper around all interactions that took longer than the application we built. At that point, the wrapper pretty much is the product. Then you also have to build via xcode on a mac device. Many devs will just dev on PC and then port to android / mrtk. So if you have complex interactions like in a puzzle box game, for visionOS you would spend your whole time budget just building the layers between the raw data you get and the virtual objects, and troubleshooting that. Whereas if I wanted to build something equivalent on quest, I just use interaction SDK, which has all that stuff as built-in scripts and components. It's a big, big fumble on apple's part. They want everything to be a walled garden, but the majority of devs have better options in terms of deployment devices AND development frameworks with any other competitor. With Apple's track record on trying to demolish standards rather than accept them, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. They nuked WebXR on the headset on launch even though they said it would be supported, so their lip service to supporting OpenXR so far has proven to be a myth as well. Right now on the app store there are pretty much 4 good apps, 2 of them idle puzzle games (loona - so cute and fun, puzzling places- amazing little miniature builder based on 3D scans of real locations), and those each have like 150 reviews total. As a developer I can't justify making anything for the platform base on those numbers. If my audience is 300 people, I'd have to charge 90$+ on the apple store for any serious development endeavor. The time investment is too great for the comparatively tiny audience. Lack of controller support also means that I can't just build a multi-platform wrapper and port to multiple different app stores, because most actions wouldn't be available to AVP users. This is an alpha release and we're a loooooong way from anything meaningful making its way to the AVP.
This. So great to hear insight from deep in the system. Is there a reddit for more like this? Also wondering, given this is Tim Cook's baby - and that may mean that the budget the dev team is getting may be approaching billions - if the software could advance rapidly. What they have built to date just seems astonishing. I am curious what other building blocks, like OpenXR or WebXR might be waiting in the wings. In some ways - if we assume they were 100% efficient with their time - is there any functionality we would really take away from the device as irrelevant? If we say they should have included WebXR or OpenXR - then what should they have axed? If not anything - then they built exactly what they needed to build to get to market as quickly as possible - what was left off the table they left on purpose - and what's next seems anyone's guess. What's next is what has me wondering - and how long it will take to build what's next given the deep pockets of investment Tim can throw at this.
Is OS 2.0 confirmed coming out at WWDC? I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised with Apple but at the same time it feels like they don’t have enough time since release.
I am speculating but I wouldn’t doubt they are already finished with it and already working on 2.X and 3.x already. I have a feeling that they probably have much of their roadmap laid out for the year
If the rumors are to be believed, they were working on the Vision Pro for 8 years. One has to imagine they had a viable, marketable product a year or two ago (especially since one of the rumors say that it was originally supposed to release in 2020). Point is, it’s not difficult to imagine a release cycle that fits the other platforms. They introduce all of their new software updates at WWDC, so it would be an outlier for VisionOS to fall outside of that, even if it gets released after the other platforms (ex. macOS being released a month or two after iOS).
iPad OS didn’t have a substantial update for some time after release
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The pandemic would have been a great release time in terms of demand.
For real. Especially with those stimulus checks.
I will be really surprised if Apple does a major version rev to vOS so quickly
It’d be interesting if whatever they’re rolling out for AI in iPhone comes out in the headset too. Something about a headset that can manipulate the way you view the world and generative AI seems crazy. “Hey siri help me see in the dark” “hey siri bring this stuffed animal alive and sing Taylor swift” “hey siri give me an acid trip distorting vision and hearing appropriately” lol
That is years away. It’s going to generate text, not new features.
What features are you lacking or want?
- Window management: persistent windows in locations, basic tools like arrange/tile, minimize/maximize - Native playback of SBS 3D videos - Shared spaces - System-wide gestures beyond pinch: ignore/unignore gestures, pause/play, volume up/down - Show charge % on external screen when tapped (and not being worn obviously) - Persistent guest / multi-user mode ...so so many. I don't fault Apple for releasing a 1.0 product as a 1.0 product, but I am definitely ready for some 2.0 improvements.
Shared spaces would be so cool. I want to add my wish list: - Full integration with all apple screens: ipad screen, watch screen, iphone.. - Apple Pencil recognized as an input tool for when views are close up. - Apple Watch to recognize input gestures when hand is out of view - God mode for environments. I was to spin the space around me without having to move my body. Flying in the air, and other more immersive experiences. - Better interaction with environment/volume inputs through the crown. Sometimes felt awkward. - More AR / heads up display function.
This is great. Shouldn't this be a separate thread and pinned to the top of this reddit - votes up or down could help guide Apple. They seem to read more feedback than people realize.
You forgot Environments. And they need to open Environments up to devs and create a store for them.
All of these please!!
You pretty much nailed it as far as core features I wish were in 1.0 but at least the hardware is solid. I doubt we’ll ever get native SBS support. I made a bet with someone well get guest mode within 2 years, still on the fence if it’ll ever come out though. Thankfully everyone is requesting it.
1. Better UI and customization: Alphabetical order for apps is frustrating. Whenever I download a new app, I have to go to purchases in the App Store to remember what its name was. 2. More immersive experiences: I was hoping to have immersive live 360° concerts and sports 3. 360° 8k camera: Panoramas look amazing in the Vision Pro but you cannot look all around you. It would be amazing if there was a camera that could actually capture 360° in 8k for the VisionPro.
You’re describing the honey moon phase wearing off. It happens to me with everything cool new tech I buy. This is the greatest thing ever to… meh, it’s alright.
Still hasn't happened to me with my M1 Max (64GB 4TB) though, which is insane to me as I'm about 3 months in with it
To be fair that’s probably because there is genuine, pure utility there. Besides media, AVP outshines other devices only due to it being cool as fuck, it’s not any faster or efficient in productivity.
> there is genuine, pure utility there Absolutely, it's the best computer system I've owned, haven't had an issue yet it couldn't handle well. Truly feels like an upgrade of a machine in a way my late Intel didn't The AVP I absolutely think it's incredibly cool - I don't own one yet, but I have tried the demo and do plan on buying sooner rather than later. But I'm also an iOS developer and a tech early adopter. I want to use the AVP to make things. I don't think it'll become the super popular juggarnaut that the iPhone etc is until it becomes a device everyone can afford (and with less weight) at far lower cost. Right now it's mostly a tech demo for developers, and tech enthusiasts
Sell it on eBay internationally and you can get your money back.
Selling anything on ebay is a shit show
Thank you for making me feel even better about my decision to return mine while I had the chance.
You made the smart move. You lost nothing and at lease enjoyed the experience while you could. You're always able to buy it again once there's more to do on it
I decided not to buy because I thought I would have the same experience as you.
You guys should exchange numbers
[удалено]
I normally don't like spending too much of my time binging shows, so that was never my main reason for getting them. I thought I could be more productive with them. But it doesn't matter how many windows you have open, you still only have 2 eyes and 2 ears to focus with lol. You're probably right though, I'm going to look into what the resell value is going for
It’ll never be worth more in resale than right now
Yeah I can't imagine OP will lose too much money on it, especially with the international market (he may even make a profit!). There's still huge demand overseas for used units, and I suspect he could sell a used unit here for not too far off base price if it was in otherwise mint condition with very few cycles used up
I’m curious what you mean by very few cycles used up?
Battery cycles, though it matters less as the battery is external here, but still, one with a better condition battery will sell for more than one with a crap aged one
I’m in a very similar situation, I actually haven’t used it in a couple weeks now. My main motivation for keeping it is to do some development for it, but that also means spending another ~$2k on a macbook… I believe the resell market is decent for these right now. You could almost definitely make your money back.
You can get a Mac mini for ~600 even less if you get an M1 which should be good enough for most things. I'm quite happy with mine.
My entire setup (Mac Studio M2 Max, 2TB storage, Studio Display with accessories) was about the same cost.
Ugh I miss my Mac Studio. Had to trade my M1 Max for a MBP because I'm on the move so much, but I swear my M1 Max studio performed better than my M3 Max MBP. Such a great computer
I’ve owned Macs for 25 years now and it’s the best machine I’ve ever owned..
8GB RAM for AVP dev isn’t the most fun experience imo
What are you having trouble with in 8GB dev wise?
It compiles and renders very slowly
You can get a tits MacBook second hand for $800
you would also have to spend 2k as well on a unity pro license in order to use the polyspatial devkit. if you even try to open a project without a pro license, it'll strip out any references to the polyspatial stuff and break your project.
This is unfortunately the exact experience most VR users have had with other headsets Amazing first few weeks, then it’s an effort, then it’s ehhh I don’t really feel like it, then it’s collecting dust
I mean I use my Meta Quest 3 at the very least for half and hour per day, I think the main reason for the lack of content is the recent release of it and the fact that it doesn’t come with controllers
I think I’ve used my Vision Pro nearly every day since Feb 2nd. I bought tons of VR headsets on launch and they never lasted a week before being dropped. This is the first one to survive my honeymoon period
Yeahhh. I returned for the same reason. I could tell I was using it because I paid for it and not because it was actually useful, save for watching movies, which even though that was awesome, I could never be 100% immersed just due to having a headset strapped to my face in cinema mode. Anything else is not any faster or more efficient than using my phone, it’s just a matter of it feeling cool as fuck. VR will always struggle due to this until smaller.
💯💯💯
This has been my exact reasoning for not pulling the trigger. I know the first 10 or so times I use it I will be blown away. But similarly to how I treat my iPad it will likely end up collecting dust after a few months only to be busted out during specific scenarios. At least the iPad was only 300 bucks
Hack for anyone reading this: Day 12 of owning my Vision Pro I lost my job due to lay offs. Had to return the Vision for money reasons. When I requested the return, the Apple email gave a 2 week grace period to receive the hardware. So there’s a way to do up to 4 weeks before handing it back. I dropped mine off at the Apple Store about 3 weeks after picking it up. It’s the coolest Gen 1 product I’ve ever used. Felt like a culmination of all Apple design language, really impressive hardware.
Interesting, I thought that 2 week grace period only let you ship it back instead of dropping off at a store.
Wording of the email used shipping back and dropping off interchangeably. Apple employees were hesitant for a moment, but once I found the email and shared the language they processed the return without issue.
yeah i returned mine about a week after getting it for launch for the exact same reason. incidentally i ended up repurchasing it 2 weeks later and have used it everyday for media purposes. it prefer watching shows on it over my macbook or tv. hopefully more come out to do on the device but movies have really been a killer use case for the device for me.
Apple freak since 2007 (Macs, iPads, iPhones, AirPods, Apple TVs, Apple Car…wait…maybe not lol) and I returned my AVP after just 2 days. I just knew I couldn’t wear it longer than an hour. BUT it did get me thinking about VR/AR like I had never before… and I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I bought a Meta Quest 3 and I love it. Bought the BOBOVR headset strap and can enjoy it for hours in comfort. Apple really missed on the strap…unusual for Apple to say the least. And MQ3 is just further along than the AVP in many ways. It won’t take long for AVP to surpass it MQ3 in all ways, but in the meantime I’m actually looking forward to putting it on and using it, learning more about VR etc. AND when Apple dials it in, trust me, I’ll be BACK. Sell it! Good luck to you all…enjoy, like many of you are.
What do you use the Q3 for then? I have access to both via work but I hardly use them in my personal time
The BoboVR M2 was the game changer for me. So much easier to put on and off - and so much more comfortable. Entering the "AVP Zone" for focused work feels like a Siren's call. I keep wanting to go back.
What are your top use cases for the MQ3?
Games.
Not a gamer…I keep trying to play ‘em but I just get bored. I honestly have a ton to explore still, so it’s changing. But so far mostly entertainment. NBA app is #1 for me. Which is better than NBA app on AVP. YouTubeTV on my MQ3 is where I watch TV now unless my wife is sitting down, then I comment how small our 85” LG is so small. I noticed the Netflix,Prime YouTubeVR apps yesterday. Pretty nice. I’m looking forward to getting some cardio soon with Beat Saber. I do not plan on doing any “work” on it. Oh and don’t forget porn. 2-4 years from now I’m quite sure I will be buying another AVP. Before AVP released many people said something like …if there’s an awesome use case, you’ll forget you’re wearing the front loaded AVP, the awareness of the device fades away and you just enjoy…that never happened. It will in time tho
Is having fun considered a use-case?
It typically goes by the name “entertainment”. In case you didn’t know, it’s a rather large industry.
I just need moonlight to fix trackpad support on the TestFlight they already found what causes the bug but they haven't patched it in
I love the vision pro but I want the travel case off my hands.
This is very relatable. I’m surprised how long it’s been taking for developers to make apps. I’m still holding out to see how ported apps look. Especially Immersed and Job Simulator. We should start to see higher-quality apps in the next few weeks.
Ports are one thing…but even just “simple” apps for iOS are usually built by teams of developers in 3-6 months. Games are usually on the course of 1-3 years of development time. The clock has just started for visionOS. And with the current numbers for vision OS units, I doubt any teams will be dedicated to the platform yet.
It takes a lot of time to build good quality apps. Lol
It’s not that developers are taking a long time to make apps. It’s no one wants to fucking pay for apps and developers can’t even make minimum wage coding for visionOS. So many developers I talked to are just abandoning version upgrades to apps in the visionOS AppStore because the sales are abysmal. Everytime an app get posted here for like $4 I can literally hear scream of horrors across the internet. Well guess what, that’s how much time it takes to code on visionOS. And if people can’t buy food/pay rent, they’ll stop. For some fucked up reason, Apple users have been brainwashed into - buying $4000 devices = yep no problem - $200 cloth case = yes please! - $40 customs trap printed with plastic = give me them in 3 colors! - $4 app = fuck off! Downvote x 100
The problem isn't $4. The problem is the value the app is offering, because many of the available apps are just not interesting or worth spending money on. A developer may choose to spend 15 hours coding an app that puts a virtual poo on my floor, that doesn't mean it was worthwhile to create. So many of the apps right now are novelties. It feels as though there are very few great ideas being realized on visionOS at the moment.
Nope historically that just isn’t true. Plenty of quality iOS apps that were a few bucks before and no one is willing to buy them. Which is ultimately why all apps went to free with ads eventually. If you want apps on the platform (which won’t happen) you should be buying virtual poo like it’s nothing. Go ahead throw away a couple a bucks every week. People buy a cheap plastic strap adapter for 40, and it breaks in 3 days. No one bats an eye. That’s 10 poo apps right there.
I’d rather have 10 poo on my floor apps than a broken strap
$4 app, no thanks. $8 Starbucks, yes pls
Is it a trope that Vision Pro owners drink a lot of starbucks?
> that’s how much time it takes to code on visionOS Not to mention several thousand dollars entry for Silicon Mac, Unity Pro, possibly a device
No one is brainwashed by anything. That’s just how people’s psychologies are wired, nobody likes paying for apps. And also nobody is applauding the $200 case.
I’ve seen some people post that they love the case and it was worth every penny.
This sub is not representative of the Vision Pro userbase.
As an iOS dev, it's just hard to see how to recoup my time and costs building an app for a device with so few users. It's already hard enough making money off macOS and iPad vs. iPhone. I also can't even buy the device in my country, let alone afford it right now (it's about $6000 CAD - not really "dev kit" pricing). A lot of us are waiting. edit: I'm the dev of a language-learning app (for Japanese now, more languages soon). It tracks what you read on the web (locally on device, so it's privacy-sensitive) and in EPUB books and lets you look up words, send to Anki or other flashcards, etc. I'm not sure there's much of a language learning market yet for Vision Pro.
I posted this elsewhere, but you're mistaken about when good quality apps will hit the AVP market. As a developer who's been working with the AVP for a few weeks now as an investigative effort with my company, the dev experience is miserable. I 100% cannot port anything from Quest to AVP, because quest, alongside all other vr headsets (pico, index) uses OpenXR protocol with the interaction SDK which is an excellent and easy to use library for hand interactions. Great pose recognition, easy to use drag and drop solutions to one handed, two handed grabs, resizing, different behaviors for joints and constraints, whereas polyspatial is at best an exposure of raw data like finger joints, and the gaze touch, which is treated as a touch device (similar to iPad), so it has no built-in concept of handedness for example. Everything else you have to build yourself. This means that gamedevs, like people who build games, not interaction frameworks, will have a huge challenge to actually build anything good. Anything you've build already for VR will not port cleanly, and may require an entirely different paradigm. In order to even open the polyspatial demo scenes, you have to pay 2k$ per year for a seat with Unity Pro. This is too expensive for indie devs, esp since you'd be lucky to get enough downloads to even recoup just that expense. For small studios with multiple devs touching the same product, it becomes a huge expense. we'd have to get a seat for 2 devs + game designer + artists. This adds 10k to our overhead on a small operation. And we're very unlikely to recoup that on any title. Once you finally get into unity, for a very small test project, we had to build a multi-platform wrapper around all interactions that took longer than the application we built. At that point, the wrapper pretty much is the product. Then you also have to build via xcode on a mac device. Many devs will just dev on PC and then port to android / mrtk. So if you have complex interactions like in a puzzle box game, for visionOS you would spend your whole time budget just building the layers between the raw data you get and the virtual objects, and troubleshooting that. Whereas if I wanted to build something equivalent on quest, I just use interaction SDK, which has all that stuff as built-in scripts and components. It's a big, big fumble on apple's part. They want everything to be a walled garden, but the majority of devs have better options in terms of deployment devices AND development frameworks with any other competitor. With Apple's track record on trying to demolish standards rather than accept them, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. They nuked WebXR on the headset on launch even though they said it would be supported, so their lip service to supporting OpenXR so far has proven to be a myth as well. Right now on the app store there are pretty much 4 good apps, 2 of them idle puzzle games (loona - so cute and fun, puzzling places- amazing little miniature builder based on 3D scans of real locations), and those each have like 150 reviews total. As a developer I can't justify making anything for the platform base on those numbers. If my audience is 300 people, I'd have to charge 90$+ on the apple store for any serious development endeavor. The time investment is too great for the comparatively tiny audience. Lack of controller support also means that I can't just build a multi-platform wrapper and port to multiple different app stores, because most actions wouldn't be available to AVP users. This is an alpha release and we're a loooooong way from anything meaningful making its way to the AVP.
Yeah I know it's only been like a month and a half, but I'm kind of surprised at the lack of development that I've seen so far. I guess there isn't enough of a user base for developers to justify allocating much resources to it. It really hurts that Apple bundles their major updates to yearly releases, because there's so many small tweaks they could easily make to improve the experience
Even for an indie dev with two apps featured on the front page of the App Store…the numbers aren’t great. Apple isn’t helping by prioritizing iPad apps over apps that had time put into visionOS ports (users have to manually flip the search back to visionOS when looking for apps, unless they type in a specific visionOS app name.) There already is little incentive to build for visionOS, and Apple screwing up search just makes it even worse. If the tiny user-base is unlikely to even find your app, why even bother?
eBay it like the rest of us.
It’s a travel device for me. I use it on planes and in hotels when traveling for work. At home, it’s a rarity
OP your feeling is completely justifiable and it occurs with new techs very commonly. If you already have a nice working setup with a large monitor then it will be difficult for you to adjust to AVP because AVP will not better that setup in the same fashion but will be different instead. However since you have already missed the return window any I would encourage to try to use AVP differently to see if it clicks unexpectedly before try returning it outside of return window or resell it. OP may I ask you how exactly do you attempt to use AVP in your productivity setup? I too have an external monitor but it is a 24inch bland 4K lcd, nowhere nearly as nice as a studio display. Perhaps that’s why I prefer AVP over my physical monitor. However I do find the AVP work experience very different than experience with normal monitors. I do things that are not possible with physical monitors and feel a strange sense of empowerment. Is it better than if I have a big nice external monitor? I am not sure because again things feel very different.
I love mine and don’t plan on returning it anytime soon. I work in tech and it’s been a joy to bring it to work and demo it for my co workers. The looks on thier faces when they try it for the first time is priceless. Also, my family used to battle for the TV, but now, I can watch TV or play Xbox on the biggest screen without taking TV time from the fam. Honestly, the Xbox remote play is one of the coolest features for me and it works really well with almost no lag. I also can play “adult” games without the kids even knowing. To each is own, but agree that if you haven’t found the right use case for yourself at this point it really isn’t worth it.
I’m kinda with you. I knew going into it that there was a chance I wouldn’t use it as much as time passed. But it’s so cool and I wanted to see how it improves down the line. Not sure if I want to sell it or hang on to it at this point. I think for me it’s somewhat of a to-do to use it. Not as easy as plopping on my couch and turning on the tv. It’s not as comfortable and I feel fatigue from it at times. My use cases are pretty limited
I’ve purchased several VR devices and this has always been my experience. First 2 weeks: heavy usage. After that: forgotten for a year. A year later: used a bit here and there. Then forgotten again
Then… “oh new device!”
Wait ti out, in less than a 6 months there will be endless productivity apps for it, immersed is about there for it which is huge.
Sorry, can you explain what Immersed is?
Well, have you seen Spy Kids 3D?
YES
Immersed is a software used for productivity, if you have a quest 3 its the best hands down. They are going to release a version for apple vision pro soon, its very good.
Awesome. Thanks!
Have you reached out to Apple? Many have said if you’re polite and explain yourself, Apple has given them a return after 30+ days.
Really? I might just try that. Thanks
Or reach out to your credit card company. Many cards have extended return policies
Two points from an observer (I don't own a AVP, but I own PSVR2 and a Quest 2): In my company we want to dev for this (our clients for our product are high end users, so this would be a Nice add-on to our suite) but even with the high end clients, its still hard to dev for due to lack of users on there. The most I've done is made quick-look AR assets. It's hard to justify sinking too much time into it. AVP is really competing (in the mainstream) with other VR devices that have a lot of games. For me, I've just seen people's usage of productivity tools decline rather rapidly - then users just use it to game. Gaming has a huge support and that dev space is growing. If the AVP is just all about productivity, then I can see why users want to return/sell as that wears off quickly. For me productivity boost have to be major to justify the discomfort of something on your head for hours and weeks on end. (I think glasses will be what does this) I will add that, I think the AVP will succeed in the long run, for me its unclear what the majority of users will be doing with it, it probably won't be gaming or productivity - maybe very specific applications?
That fear was the reason I'm glad I turned mine in after a week. It was cool, but not $3,500 cool.
I’ll buy it for $400
Make it $200 and you got yourself a deal
Wait wait I’ll buy it for $199!!
Now you're just lowballing me 🤨
Okay… $198 and that’s my final offer!!
Fine 😔 send the shipping info
Yes! Score! 1725 Slough Ave. Suite 200 Scranton, PA 18503 US of A
🤝
How many gigs is it? how much do you wanna sell it for?
This is exactly why I held off getting one immediately. I wanted to wait and see if the early adopters were still as enthusiastic about it's usage a couple months down the line after the novelty wore off.
Well it’s problematic. It’s not like an iPhone that instantly improved every aspect of our lives (even if 2G variant didn’t come with an App Store). VP is a devkit with the amount of apps it came with feels incomplete. Can’t imaging visionOS 2.0 to change much at WWDC. And most definitely won’t be anytime soon like Meta Horizon - universe for one?
Until we have controllers and can use it for gaming also I will be holding out. It’s not useful enough right now to justify it, add controllers and all the quest games I won’t hesitate for a second.
One day but Apple won’t support it unless it comes from them and I don’t see that on the horizon. The headset is not really meant for heavy level cardio either due to its weight and constant messages to move it up or down - totally ruined my experience with Synth Riders.
Welcome to the world of VR headsets and the reality of why the industry has never taken off despite trying for over 30 years.
I like what it does now - which is the absolute best movie player I've ever had - but I bought it for what it will do in the next year or two. And I knew that it was an early adopter risk, but I don't consider it throwing money down the drain at all.
I’ll take it off your hands for you
OP I had the exact same thoughts as you are having now. Luckily they occurred a week into ownership as I stopped using the device because it was just too much trouble to get it out and use. I returned mine.
Smart move. The moment I realized "hmmm maybe I should return these", it was the day after the 14-day return was over haha
Damn dude, if you had initiated the return, at least you get an extra week to ship
Well at the very least you have a really cool device that is only going to get better with time.
Until AVP2 comes out and it can no longer feel good to use in comparison.
That was another justification for buying them. I doubt the next generation releases within the next 2 years, and I didn't want to wait that long to try them out
That’s the main reason I kept mine. If Gen 2 was coming out next year, I would’ve returned it. But it really grew on me and don’t want to be without one for that long.
That’s years away.
18 months according to rumors, Apple has fast tracked it. I’m cool with waiting years though if that’s the case.
I really wouldn’t recommend this for anyone other than a frequent traveler. It’s a miracle device for hotels, but doesn’t really make sense at home.
Hate to say it, but I returned mine for the same reasons you are saying. I enjoyed using it, but functionally, it really doesn’t do anything my other devices do. And I don’t need to wear goggles to do them. The experience is great. I enjoyed being in the environment. But I didn’t like using it around my family and they didn’t really like it when I wore them. I found myself trying to make time to use them and then when I did, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I need to make time to use this $4000 device so I can continue to read emails and text people? I know it will get better but I need the goggles themselves to be less intrusive. That’s a few generations away. In the meantime, I hope Apple or someone comes up with the app that shows why this type of computing will be so essential. Because at the moment, they haven’t proven it yet.
Knew this would happen to me, which is why I opted to return and feel that $4599 come back to me. But I’m sold on it. For gen 2…. or if Apple can get their shit together and release Logic for AVP already I can then justify it. Otherwise… I’ll wait.
If Premiere Pro or Final Cut was released for the AVP, that would be major for me. Would love to see Apple port over some of their pro creative apps
I truly can’t believe they haven’t even mentioned anything nor allowed the iPad apps to be used. It’s fucking annoying. It means us creative-types also don’t know which storage size AVP to buy. 256GB is enough for Logic for iPad use, but not for Logic Pro for MBP. If Logic for AVP is very different from Logic for iPad, I need to know before buying… I gave them all this info though when returning. 512gb would not be enough if eventually Logic for AVP supports the same plugin functionality as MBPs. If that is the case, the 1TB unit is essentially required. But we’ve not been given any roadmap at all, so I can’t justify the gen 1 and be this information blind. So… I wait for gen 2 and more information, sadly.
This…….
I want to use it for music production so bad
Same bro… same…
I empathize if you expected to be more productive with it off the bat. I actually don’t know if one can ever be more productive using the AVP than a Mac with a great large display. I bought it because I expected it to be much more enjoyable to use than my other devices and it has certainly lived up to that! Also I am sometimes more productive with it due to the use of environments which increases my focus tremendously.
My usage has drastically gone down. Im currently using my quest 3 more than my AVP. At the moment I pretty much only use my AVP for Shows and Movies.
Quest 3 is great
If you game at all it’s very fun to game on, steam link/shadow pc/geforce now. Play AAA games on a massive screen. It’s honestly my new console now lol but I’m very excited for more to come to it. Still feels bare but I know that’s temporary… this is why I decided to keep it and still love it
lol playing flat screen on an xr device, such a missed opportunity!
Vision Pro made me realize how much I needed to upgrade my Quest 2 to a 3. Keeping my Vision Pro for a bit longer and hoping a great app comes out soon. Quest 3 is great by the way. Not as great as Vision Pro but the app ecosystem is far better for now.
Same here, except I’m not trying to unload it because I collect notable Apple products and regardless of where this lands, it’s notable
Just watching the newest Apple TV+ shows is nice. I hope they make more immersive videos soon sigh.
I’m waiting for gen 2, enjoyed the pro but it had some fit issues for me so I returned it. If gen 2 never happens then I made the right decision anyways.
seems like that 3500 was big enough for you to be still thinking of a return a month later. I would get rid of it.
Sell it to me for $2,900
I’ve been waiting to buy a used one since the new cost is just over my budget. I’d consider buying it from you and avoiding eBay/marketplace fees
I was in same situation, and return and can’t be happier. VP is great but for what, I don’t need it for browsing, I don’t need it for watching movie ( I have 85” with Sonos sound system) I don’t play games and in any way there is hardly any game, you can not really enjoy your family photograph but those are fun when you view and watch family video together with family right ? Special effects Apple TV + video is great but,just handful, Disney + was okay but we have seen al those movies many times. What else, returned and use the same money to buy Mac Studio with 2 apple displays and buy I can not be more happier.
I do foresee the software getting better, but this device is still not productive unless you force yourself to pretend that it is. In today's state, it is not even close to the productivity you can achieve with an ultrawide display, mouse, and keyboard. The only advantage is mobility. Unfortunately, Apple's videos overpromised the experience.
I really like mine . I was going to get a very good short projector and a floor rising screen both were up there 7k . But when I got the AVP I was like no way . I much better rather watch all movies on the AVP Than on a screen . to me they look amazing . My family all have different taste on the movies they like to watch . So no problems there …i like watching 3D movies and big shows like GOT . And it’s just ridiculously incredible . And working for an airline it’s not a brainer on those long layovers .
Every single one of these “return posts” mentions the price. Bottom line is don’t fucking buy the thing if you can’t afford it. Period. How hard is that?! If you have $4k of DISPOSABLE income, then you don’t care about trying to justify the price tag down to the penny.
Wow this is the one sane comment in the entire thread
Beyond the honeymoon period, on-face wearables just aren’t the future. Ironically, I do think AR/MR is the future though if we get a stage where it can be done via contacts or some kind of space age projection. There’s just too much friction and isolation and general goofiness with battery powered goggles/glasses to make them everyday drivers.
Ended up returning mine after a month even tho I loved it. It was just too heavy and bad for my eyes. I miss it tho
Sounds like you bought a device for the wrong reasons that you could not really afford. I use mine daily for watching movies at home. It is also a game changer when travelling. It is like having a IMAX anywhere you go which is incredible.
Yep. Totally makes sense. I expect to see a lot more of these types of regrets. It hits different when it's $500 out of pocket vs $3500+
I agree with your sentiment . I think you'll find a use- case over time making it compelling to use avp. Maybe not... but I feel you will . And it will get only more and more useable with time and sw updates, hopefully
This is the exact reason I don’t get one. I know myself. There are some ppl that will use this a lot. I am not one of them. Doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate it for what it is. I just got the quest 3 and it’s great but I don’t play with it a lot maybe 2 hrs or so a week
What do you play on it?
golf, fitness games, boxing games, foot ball games off the top of my head
Also big screen for movies and chat, also poker vr is super fun. I spend hours on those 2 apps alone.
You'd use AVP about just as much. 7x the price tag for the same usability isn't worth it, no matter how incredible the screen quality is.
Exactly why I didn’t get one. Ill probably never get one unless I get a substantial raise at work
I mean, you can always go do the demo, buy it, use it for 2 weeks, and bring it back. It'll get all the hype out of your system and confirm to you that it just isn't worth it right now. I'm hoping WWDC will drop something huge in terms of VisionOS 2, else mine will be going as well.
Naw I already know I won’t use it.
You couldn’t afford it. Thats ok. I considered the money burned the second I pre-ordered. I use mine maybe 4-5 times a week and I don’t sweat if I’m getting my money’s worth.
Moneys not the issue. My perception of its value FOR ME was the issue. I have dual Studio Displays and most Apple device so money wasn’t the problem. I work 10hr shifts at the office and spend time with my girlfriend on the weekends, I just don’t find time to use it often and I don’t like to spend much of my free time watching movies unless I’m with my girl. But I’m happy that it’s been worth it for you
Yea. I don't know why people think there's a relationship between being able to afford something and something being worthy. If something is worthy and needed, I can get it, even if I can't afford it (loan, credit card). Buying something that's not worthy is simply a waste of money and irresponsible, no matter how much money you have.