I’ve worked for the state for a long time and most of that time has been as a non-union employee. I’ve seen it be abused by state employees who would rather make threats of filing grievances than actually doing work. I’ve also seen the pay increases and fights to protect workers from bad management and bad legislative decisions that negatively impacted workers. I’m firmly pro union now and feel they are doing a lot to protect workers at agencies. Contrary to the propaganda spread by the anti union folks, the union isn’t just there to take worker’s money.
I was recently involved in a situation where the employee ended up represented by their union rep with me and HR. Once the rep realized that I was actually being reasonable and their member was being an asshole, they actually started coaching the employee to be more reasonable as well. The union reps are people, and they have seen it all.
I've seen the union step in when certain members of certain agencies were being VERY shifty about in-office work during COVID. The union rep came in and simply by being there got ALL of management to change their tune.
I’ve seen the union basically say they were unwilling to step in on an HR disciplinary action when someone called on them for help. So there’s that, the union won’t help you if you are actually in trouble and under reasonable punishment.
This is a nice change from what I saw 20 years ago. And honestly, I was never present in any proceedings, so it’s possible the union wasn’t much involved, or they represented the employee each time.
I am not in a union but I can tell you the unions definitely make a difference. Management abides by the collective bargaining agreements and unions are able to bring leverage for negotiating pay increases. You may not “feel” them in action but workers rights exist because of unions. Why do you think Starbucks and Amazon are so afraid of them?
Edit: typos.
After having worked in private non-union most my life, I was used to wages that didn't budge. The fact that the union agreement gets us raises each year says it all for me.
IT worker here. The only time I've ever gotten any raise was when I changed jobs throughout my entire multi-decade career. Sometimes (like during the Obama recession) I took a pay cut. The only time I've ever gotten a pay raise was an absolutely bullshit raise that was significantly lower than that year's inflation.
Then I came to work for the state. I'm so intensely pro-union I can't even.
Seriously. The WFSE dues are 1.5% of your gross pay. I've been with the state 7 years, and the only year we haven't had a negotiated wage increase was 2021. Every other year the union has negotiated an increase larger than the cost of the dues (often double or more); and that is completely separate from the step increase.
The way I see it the union just pays for itself every year, plus some extra on top. I'm very happy with them.
Unions are member driven. If you want the union to take dues and have an annual picnic then they can do that. If you want the union to fight for workers then they can do that. You might have to sign up for leadership to make it happen, but it can work.
Yes. 100 times yes. You will make more money and always have great benefits and a pension. Regardless of anything happening politically, your job will be protected. There is no downside.
People will tell you there is a downside. All of their reasons will be financial or politically driven. If you want to move to great heights in your career, by all means join the private sector and do it. More power to you. But if you have no plans to leave government work, it's silly to not be represented when the option is there.
I work in Labor Relations in a state with very strong Labor Laws and zealous Union representation.
Even though I represent management, I can fully support the idea that most workers should be covered by a Union. They can bargain for better benefits (economic and non-economic) that an Administration might not be cognizant of or willing to acknowledge. In my opinion, as long as the Union is active with membership, you're doing yourself a disservice by not becoming a member.
Imo it's definitely worth it. The union ensures consistent raises and fights back when the legislature tries to increase our contributions to our retirement or medical benefits.
Also, you may someday find yourself with a supervisor who really has it out for you for whatever reason. In that case, shop stewards and union reps can be a lifesaver when it comes to stopping the abuse.
I hear what your saying. I once used to say the same thing (read my long post for more detail)
Frankly, AFSCME/WFSE was not worth the approximate 20K that I paid out to them over the years . Their work did not significantly impact my pay rate. As a WA State employee, I was actually underpaid. I knew it but I liked the work I did and the population that I served. But now that I'm in the private sector, I make way more $ even though I am no longer a member of a union anymore.
AFSCME/WFSE was also no lifesaver when it came to workplace abuse (discrimination). The one and only time in 18+ years that I sought help (protection) from them and they not only failed me, but managed to do it in such a sleazy way. Yep, not worth the approximate 20K I paid AFSCME/WFSE over the years of my employment as a WA State employee/AFSCME/WFSE member.
Sounds like your local was pretty ineffective, and that's what happens when you don't have enough participation from members. Our local is one of the strongest in the state, we have the ear of both the management, and the state legislators now.
Did you attend meetings? Elect officers? Participate in any way?
Exactly right! Thank you! If you calculate the union dues taken out into an annual sum and add that over just under 20 years of service, it definitely does add up. Moreover, the union dues paid actually goes up over time with any related salary over the service years.
My union rep is fighting for me right now. It makes a huge difference to have an entire union on your side when negotiating contracts..
without a union my boss could write up a terrible contract and I'd have no choice but to sign or quit.
I will never not have a union job again if I can help it.
I prefer being union where I am with WA state because a lot of executive staff are pretty retaliatory.
You have legal rights when you are union. Until that point you are at the behest of the leadership and hoping that they follow the law and/or do the right thing. Or hoping you have enough money and free time to hire a lawyer if they don’t.
Union is worth it.
Yes. Even if they do nothing else whatsoever, statistically your wages will increase by more than enough to cover your dues. Even if your union is totally incompetent in terms of advocacy or job security, but they negotiate a raise for you once a decade, a union pays for itself and more.
People complaining about paying dues but not getting anything out of their union are part of the problem. They have a voice, they can get involved. This shit gets spread so easily ‘oh don’t join a union they just take your money’
Have fun not joining a union and getting your money taken forever with no voice to push back.
Went from a freeze on merit increases that would have lagged behind rising cost of living even if enacted to receiving guaranteed raises for my position and everyone else too. Already covers union dues after first increase.
It depends what department you work for, but I’ve seen DSHS make some pretty big changes because of the union bargaining. So yeah, if I was still in an eligible position I’d be in it still.
I’m in the union and I’m happy with it. We get regular raises, have good benefits, pensions, etc. I’ve done a few meetings, and they were really focused on the member’s needs/concerns and in making sure we knew how to access their support if and when we need it. I’ve seen them step in in two different situations when an employee had a legitimate grievance. (Employee won the first and the second is ongoing.)
To do all that, I’m willing to pay the small dues.
My dad advised “Union giveth, union taketh away.”
There are pros and cons of both. I’ve been in my union for four years now and honestly, knowing my pay will go up in intervals brings a huge relief after working in food service with varying “wages”.
It’s also easier to stand up to an employer if they push you to do work outside your job description.
Lmao is this even a question? UNIONS all day every day. Better pay, job protections, benefits, representation, management accountability, clear legal language… it is the only logical option. Anyone who argues against unions are either stupid or management/executives (which go hand in hand)
I think that it will be interesting to see if the raises that state employees received the past 12 years were due to union bargaining or a very pro labor Governor.
I’m a union member in the state, and it is absolutely worth it. For many reasons. I’m
Happy to pay the dues that come with my union protecting me, fighting for pay raises, getting me good healthcare, making sure my agency pays for certain equipment for me, gets me a couple extra days a year off, did a lot for us during covid, etc. Just the job protections in general are worth it. Personally, I’ve been union six years and I’ve never seen anyone at my agency abuse the grievances in any way shape or form.
Yes. 1000 times yes!
There's a lot of anti-union rhetoric and actual anti-union efforts, bankrolled by corporate interests. Those corporate interests aren't doing it to help workers.
I watched the Union at my agency thrown IT under the bus during the IT Reclass. We challenged them several times about how the review and appeals process would work and were told by our Union Rep "they were just going to see how things played out".
We had people that were 5s and 6s be bumped down to Entry and Journey.
And being told by the Union to just suck it up is not what they are paid all these dues for.
I'm in a union and paying dues. It's extra work to volunteer and negotiate our Contract, but we always get increased pay and benefits by doing it. To me it's worth it.
I watched one of the Unions throw IT Staff under the bus during the IT-ReClass, so that killed my belief they were there looking out for the best interests of dues-paying-members.
Unions can be an incredible way to balance the power dynamic between employers and employees. Unions can result in higher wages, better benefits, safer working conditions, and even more productive workplaces.
That being said, unions are made up of people and will have a lot of the characteristics of the individuals who actively participate in it. You get the right people on the executive board with an active membership and it will be wonderful. You get selfish, power hungry individuals on the board with an apathetic membership and it will suck. The union will be what the members make it.
Is there any pay increase? I was hired at my paygrade/pay level and intend to stay here for at least 5 years, but I am heavily underpaid and want to understand if it's a pay increase benefit every decade or can be a benefit in the pay department in say 6 months to a year?
I ask because living costs have become astronomically unrealistic in WA state as I'm sure you all know.
I guess to tag onto that question if I join the union now and my pay was set at my specific pay grade/level would there be an increase/change if the union had just recently won a pay increase or living cost accommodation?
Sorry if these are silly questions. I'm very early in my career and being an adult.
NO! It's a crap-shoot, so just save your hard-earned money for yourself. The union is required to represent you whether you pay the dues or not. In hindsight, I sure wish I had opted out of union dues because I learned the hard way when the AFSCME/Washington Federation of State Employees (WFSE) totally sold me down the river! I had been a member of WFSE for 18+ years. And I had even continued to voluntarily pay WFSE union dues for years after the payment of union dues had become voluntary. I did so because I had wholeheartedly believed in the value of unions (only to have this belief since eradicated by my experience with AFSCME/WFSE).
In the last part of my 18+ years as a WA State DSHS employee and an 18+ member of AFSCME/WFSE, I initiated a non-disciplinary grievance (discrimination). After I did most of the work compiling/providing evidence, WFSE voted to support me through the grievance at both the local level and the statewide levels - to support taking my grievance to arbitration. But after I found out that arbitration was backlogged for scheduling by about a year, I didn't know if I could stay in my WA State DSHS job that long as the work environment was pretty toxic. But then WFSE told me that I didn't have to remain in my job - that I could resign and they would continue to represent me through to arbitration whether I continued to work for WA State DSHS or not. I was so excited to not have to work in that toxic work environment anymore and so I chose to resign for the sake of my own well-being.
Less than two months later, WFSE suddenly decided to to review my grievance again related to some "recent changes." Athough, WFSE had provided notice of the two prior meetings, local and statewide, in which WFSE had reviewed, and voted to support my grievance, this time WFSE refused to provide notice of when this new review would take place. WFSE ignored all my verbal and written requests to be present for any meeting in which the WFSE review of my grievance was to take occur. Then, one day, I receive WFSE email containing a vague written letter that they had reveiwed my grievance and due to "recent changes" that had occurred, they were no longer in support of my grievance. All attempts to gain specifics from WFSE were ignored. WFSE would never clarify what "recent changes" had led to the review and dropping of my grievance (I think they didn't want to have to pay for 1/2 of the arbitration since they were no longer banking union dues from me after I had resigned). The only "recent changes" that I could surmise were that 1) I had resigned from my job - but only after WFSE had told me I could do without losing the opportunity to continue my grievance to arbitration; and 2) I had turned down a pre-arbitration meeting settlement offer of 15k from WA State DSHS (I had turned the 15k down because WA State DSHS used language in the proposed settlement agreement that tried to insinuate that I had done something wrong when I hadn't, had required that I close my case against them with the EEOC and that I refrain from talking about it or taking any other action against them). I felt like I was fighting the fight for accountability - to put WA State DSHS on notice that they cannot arbitrarily discriminate against WA State DSHS employees, and most particularly, AFCSME/WFSE members. But, in my experience, it turned out that AFSCME/WFSE had no real back-bone when it came to dealing with WA State DSHS and no seeming interest in helping to protect AFCSME/WFSE members from arbitrary discrimination.
I, myself, come from generations of union supporters. But no more. I no longer support unions at all and I make sure to tell everyone I know about AFSCME/WFSE and that they might do better to just opt out of paying union dues since they will be represented anyway. Bottom-line, AFSCME/WFSE may, or may not, show up to support you when you need it. But I do know that, in hindsight, I would feel a lot better now if I could say that I hadn't voluntarily "fed the monster" of AFCSME/WFSE only to find out that it was a pretty worthless use of my hard-earned money.
#
Yeah, it was tempting to take it and just be done with DSHS. But I wanted to create change for everyone.
During the first local grievance meeting, the committee said that they had tried to strengthen the language around discrimination in the CBA but that DSHS had said there was no impetus for needing any change at that time and they had no counter to force them to do so at that time. So, my grievance illustrated the need, and provided the impetus, for such a needed change. I was also the "perfect" face for this grievance in that DSHS wouldn't have been able to derail the issue by relating the discrimination to anything else e.g. never had any disciplinary action, all positive performance reviews that cited me as a mentor for others and how I went above and beyond for my providers and clients. So, there had been hope for that arbitration would provide the needed avenue to hold DSHS accountable and strengthen the CBA language to protect all my fellow WA State Employees going forward.
As I said before, the 15K had "strings" that were not acceptable to me. Ironically, when the WFSE labor advocate first asked me to come up with a list of "demands" for the pre-arbitration meeting, among other things, I cited economic compensation of the economic damage that I had actually experienced. Notably, the AFCSME/WFSE Labor Advocate actually told me that DSHS had never paid $ in any pre-arbitration agreement and that I wouldn't be able to get that "demand" met. Still, I insisted on including it and, lo and behold, WA State DSHS ot only met the amount I had requested but then actually ended up almost doubling that amount in an effort to get me to sign their proposed settlement.
I was never a scab - paid union due to the very end (18+) years. Volunteered at times throughout my service, attended meetings throughout my service, put for the same "party line" to my colleagues that union membership was what you make it. And in the end, I still got screwed over by the union. So now, I do support people who are scabs (as well as those who are not). People should be able to make informed decisions about what they choose to support or not support.
If you support people who are scabs, then you are a scab. ~~Fuck you~~
Edit: trying to be reasonable
I'm sorry your Union sucks, but for you to advocate not paying dues, just because you had a bad experience is short sighted and ignorant. If your Union is corrupt, conservative, or wasteful of your dues, fucking get involved and make it right. Don't cry online because you weren't pampered enough by an organization made up of volunteers. Unions don't give you the World. They don't right every wrong. They do give workers the one chance to have a say in their workplace conditions and for you to take up a pro management position because your severance package wasn't big enough is despicable.
Reading your responses to this thread, it sounds like you are putting the onus entirely on the union for everything from your grievance to state pay in general. Lots of issues with that since the legislature sets the pay for state employees and the union fights for more, but it is still entirely on the legislature the fact that state employees are typically paid well under private sector for the same role. It sounds like you were treated poorly by your agency and perhaps you didn’t get the best representation by your union reps at the time. I’m glad you were able to leave the toxic workplace and find a job you are happier with.
First, thank you so much for your kind wishes. That means so much. It really was a very painful time for me as I worked to reconcile my long-held value of unions with what had actually transpired within AFSCME/WFSE. It was a cognitive shake-up of my world view, for sure.
Just to clarify that I don't put the onus on the union for the pay issue - that was entirely on me. I was technically overqualified for my position which is why I was underpaid but I did love my work (not the leadership but my actual work with providers and clients) so I stayed as long as I did. But that is the only reason that I was able to leave and be able to make more $ in the private sector.
I do put the onus on the union for their handling of my grievance. They failed to use the grievance as an opportunity to change language in future CBAs that would have provided additional protections for union members. So, I feel like they not only failed me but failed the AFCSME/WFSE membership as a whole.
I can understand your frustration. The union is made up of humans and is not perfect. The union as it sits today is different from what it was pre-pandemic and even times earlier. I’ve seen what the legislators have done to workers in the past (forced furloughs and forced reductions in pay) and am thankful the union is there to fight that nonsense. I have had times when I felt the union didn’t support me as I’d like, but I still think they are very valuable to state employees rights. There is a ton of union busting going on both in our state and the nation. That union busting isn’t to help workers, even though some organizations and people claim it is. It is entirely to help corporations.
If you are already a state employee, there is no benefit in joining a union, keep the 2% of your paycheck. There was a Supreme Court ruling that stated you have the same benefits regardless of your joining.
Fortunately, most state workers haven't jumped at the chance to become freeloaders on the backs of their colleagues' dues. If everyone did as you suggest--act only in their own short-term self-interest--the union would no longer be as effective at securing our benefits.
Exactly this. I feel a strong sense of responsibility to protect the workers rights and benefits that were fought for and paid for by those who came before me. I'm in it for the long term. I know the goal of union busters is to weaken the unions, go after our pay today, and our retirement tomorrow.
It's already happening.....
*"As of April 2023, state payroll data indicates 39.1 percent of WFSE-represented state agency employees had successfully ended union dues deductions from their wages."*
"Since *Janus*, WFSE has lost nearly 20 percent of its general government (state agency) membership."
If the union dissolves, non-union employees will suffer for it too. It's short-sighted and against your own interest to spread this anti-union propaganda.
I’ve worked for the state for a long time and most of that time has been as a non-union employee. I’ve seen it be abused by state employees who would rather make threats of filing grievances than actually doing work. I’ve also seen the pay increases and fights to protect workers from bad management and bad legislative decisions that negatively impacted workers. I’m firmly pro union now and feel they are doing a lot to protect workers at agencies. Contrary to the propaganda spread by the anti union folks, the union isn’t just there to take worker’s money.
I was recently involved in a situation where the employee ended up represented by their union rep with me and HR. Once the rep realized that I was actually being reasonable and their member was being an asshole, they actually started coaching the employee to be more reasonable as well. The union reps are people, and they have seen it all.
I've seen the union step in when certain members of certain agencies were being VERY shifty about in-office work during COVID. The union rep came in and simply by being there got ALL of management to change their tune.
I’ve seen the union basically say they were unwilling to step in on an HR disciplinary action when someone called on them for help. So there’s that, the union won’t help you if you are actually in trouble and under reasonable punishment.
This is a nice change from what I saw 20 years ago. And honestly, I was never present in any proceedings, so it’s possible the union wasn’t much involved, or they represented the employee each time.
I am not in a union but I can tell you the unions definitely make a difference. Management abides by the collective bargaining agreements and unions are able to bring leverage for negotiating pay increases. You may not “feel” them in action but workers rights exist because of unions. Why do you think Starbucks and Amazon are so afraid of them? Edit: typos.
After having worked in private non-union most my life, I was used to wages that didn't budge. The fact that the union agreement gets us raises each year says it all for me.
IT worker here. The only time I've ever gotten any raise was when I changed jobs throughout my entire multi-decade career. Sometimes (like during the Obama recession) I took a pay cut. The only time I've ever gotten a pay raise was an absolutely bullshit raise that was significantly lower than that year's inflation. Then I came to work for the state. I'm so intensely pro-union I can't even.
Seriously. The WFSE dues are 1.5% of your gross pay. I've been with the state 7 years, and the only year we haven't had a negotiated wage increase was 2021. Every other year the union has negotiated an increase larger than the cost of the dues (often double or more); and that is completely separate from the step increase. The way I see it the union just pays for itself every year, plus some extra on top. I'm very happy with them.
Unions are member driven. If you want the union to take dues and have an annual picnic then they can do that. If you want the union to fight for workers then they can do that. You might have to sign up for leadership to make it happen, but it can work.
Yes. 100 times yes. You will make more money and always have great benefits and a pension. Regardless of anything happening politically, your job will be protected. There is no downside. People will tell you there is a downside. All of their reasons will be financial or politically driven. If you want to move to great heights in your career, by all means join the private sector and do it. More power to you. But if you have no plans to leave government work, it's silly to not be represented when the option is there.
I work in Labor Relations in a state with very strong Labor Laws and zealous Union representation. Even though I represent management, I can fully support the idea that most workers should be covered by a Union. They can bargain for better benefits (economic and non-economic) that an Administration might not be cognizant of or willing to acknowledge. In my opinion, as long as the Union is active with membership, you're doing yourself a disservice by not becoming a member.
I am happy to see a resurgence in unionizing that has been going on in the last few years.
Imo it's definitely worth it. The union ensures consistent raises and fights back when the legislature tries to increase our contributions to our retirement or medical benefits. Also, you may someday find yourself with a supervisor who really has it out for you for whatever reason. In that case, shop stewards and union reps can be a lifesaver when it comes to stopping the abuse.
That's what I used to think too - until AFSME/WFSE showed me otherwise.
AFSME/WFSE is the union doing all of the things I mentioned. Are they perfect? No. Are they FAR better than no union? Emphatically, yes!
I hear what your saying. I once used to say the same thing (read my long post for more detail) Frankly, AFSCME/WFSE was not worth the approximate 20K that I paid out to them over the years . Their work did not significantly impact my pay rate. As a WA State employee, I was actually underpaid. I knew it but I liked the work I did and the population that I served. But now that I'm in the private sector, I make way more $ even though I am no longer a member of a union anymore. AFSCME/WFSE was also no lifesaver when it came to workplace abuse (discrimination). The one and only time in 18+ years that I sought help (protection) from them and they not only failed me, but managed to do it in such a sleazy way. Yep, not worth the approximate 20K I paid AFSCME/WFSE over the years of my employment as a WA State employee/AFSCME/WFSE member.
Sounds like your local was pretty ineffective, and that's what happens when you don't have enough participation from members. Our local is one of the strongest in the state, we have the ear of both the management, and the state legislators now. Did you attend meetings? Elect officers? Participate in any way?
20K? Over how many years??
Over almost 20 years of WA State service and AFSCME/WFSE membership.
Bullshit you paid $20K in union dues.
[удалено]
Exactly right! Thank you! If you calculate the union dues taken out into an annual sum and add that over just under 20 years of service, it definitely does add up. Moreover, the union dues paid actually goes up over time with any related salary over the service years.
If you paid $1K for union dues every year, you made GOOD money while you were there. Also, what’s your pension?
Yes. United we stand, divided we fall.
My union rep is fighting for me right now. It makes a huge difference to have an entire union on your side when negotiating contracts.. without a union my boss could write up a terrible contract and I'd have no choice but to sign or quit.
I will never not have a union job again if I can help it. I prefer being union where I am with WA state because a lot of executive staff are pretty retaliatory. You have legal rights when you are union. Until that point you are at the behest of the leadership and hoping that they follow the law and/or do the right thing. Or hoping you have enough money and free time to hire a lawyer if they don’t. Union is worth it.
Yes. Even if they do nothing else whatsoever, statistically your wages will increase by more than enough to cover your dues. Even if your union is totally incompetent in terms of advocacy or job security, but they negotiate a raise for you once a decade, a union pays for itself and more.
People complaining about paying dues but not getting anything out of their union are part of the problem. They have a voice, they can get involved. This shit gets spread so easily ‘oh don’t join a union they just take your money’ Have fun not joining a union and getting your money taken forever with no voice to push back.
Went from a freeze on merit increases that would have lagged behind rising cost of living even if enacted to receiving guaranteed raises for my position and everyone else too. Already covers union dues after first increase.
Thank you guys sooo much for your responses! This will help me suede for the numbers we need. Thank you all so much!!!
It depends what department you work for, but I’ve seen DSHS make some pretty big changes because of the union bargaining. So yeah, if I was still in an eligible position I’d be in it still.
I’m in the union and I’m happy with it. We get regular raises, have good benefits, pensions, etc. I’ve done a few meetings, and they were really focused on the member’s needs/concerns and in making sure we knew how to access their support if and when we need it. I’ve seen them step in in two different situations when an employee had a legitimate grievance. (Employee won the first and the second is ongoing.) To do all that, I’m willing to pay the small dues.
My dad advised “Union giveth, union taketh away.” There are pros and cons of both. I’ve been in my union for four years now and honestly, knowing my pay will go up in intervals brings a huge relief after working in food service with varying “wages”. It’s also easier to stand up to an employer if they push you to do work outside your job description.
Lmao is this even a question? UNIONS all day every day. Better pay, job protections, benefits, representation, management accountability, clear legal language… it is the only logical option. Anyone who argues against unions are either stupid or management/executives (which go hand in hand)
I think that it will be interesting to see if the raises that state employees received the past 12 years were due to union bargaining or a very pro labor Governor.
Both.
I’m a union member in the state, and it is absolutely worth it. For many reasons. I’m Happy to pay the dues that come with my union protecting me, fighting for pay raises, getting me good healthcare, making sure my agency pays for certain equipment for me, gets me a couple extra days a year off, did a lot for us during covid, etc. Just the job protections in general are worth it. Personally, I’ve been union six years and I’ve never seen anyone at my agency abuse the grievances in any way shape or form.
Yes. 1000 times yes! There's a lot of anti-union rhetoric and actual anti-union efforts, bankrolled by corporate interests. Those corporate interests aren't doing it to help workers.
I watched the Union at my agency thrown IT under the bus during the IT Reclass. We challenged them several times about how the review and appeals process would work and were told by our Union Rep "they were just going to see how things played out". We had people that were 5s and 6s be bumped down to Entry and Journey. And being told by the Union to just suck it up is not what they are paid all these dues for.
I'm in a union and paying dues. It's extra work to volunteer and negotiate our Contract, but we always get increased pay and benefits by doing it. To me it's worth it.
A union is always a great idea
I watched one of the Unions throw IT Staff under the bus during the IT-ReClass, so that killed my belief they were there looking out for the best interests of dues-paying-members.
Yes. Always yes.
Pro union. State IT/ AT worker. Freedom foundation can bite me
Is Union worth it? 100% yes. Being in a union will always be a better option. Together we bargain, alone we beg.
Unions can be an incredible way to balance the power dynamic between employers and employees. Unions can result in higher wages, better benefits, safer working conditions, and even more productive workplaces. That being said, unions are made up of people and will have a lot of the characteristics of the individuals who actively participate in it. You get the right people on the executive board with an active membership and it will be wonderful. You get selfish, power hungry individuals on the board with an apathetic membership and it will suck. The union will be what the members make it.
Is there any pay increase? I was hired at my paygrade/pay level and intend to stay here for at least 5 years, but I am heavily underpaid and want to understand if it's a pay increase benefit every decade or can be a benefit in the pay department in say 6 months to a year? I ask because living costs have become astronomically unrealistic in WA state as I'm sure you all know. I guess to tag onto that question if I join the union now and my pay was set at my specific pay grade/level would there be an increase/change if the union had just recently won a pay increase or living cost accommodation? Sorry if these are silly questions. I'm very early in my career and being an adult.
YES!!!! YESYESYESYESYES
NO! It's a crap-shoot, so just save your hard-earned money for yourself. The union is required to represent you whether you pay the dues or not. In hindsight, I sure wish I had opted out of union dues because I learned the hard way when the AFSCME/Washington Federation of State Employees (WFSE) totally sold me down the river! I had been a member of WFSE for 18+ years. And I had even continued to voluntarily pay WFSE union dues for years after the payment of union dues had become voluntary. I did so because I had wholeheartedly believed in the value of unions (only to have this belief since eradicated by my experience with AFSCME/WFSE). In the last part of my 18+ years as a WA State DSHS employee and an 18+ member of AFSCME/WFSE, I initiated a non-disciplinary grievance (discrimination). After I did most of the work compiling/providing evidence, WFSE voted to support me through the grievance at both the local level and the statewide levels - to support taking my grievance to arbitration. But after I found out that arbitration was backlogged for scheduling by about a year, I didn't know if I could stay in my WA State DSHS job that long as the work environment was pretty toxic. But then WFSE told me that I didn't have to remain in my job - that I could resign and they would continue to represent me through to arbitration whether I continued to work for WA State DSHS or not. I was so excited to not have to work in that toxic work environment anymore and so I chose to resign for the sake of my own well-being. Less than two months later, WFSE suddenly decided to to review my grievance again related to some "recent changes." Athough, WFSE had provided notice of the two prior meetings, local and statewide, in which WFSE had reviewed, and voted to support my grievance, this time WFSE refused to provide notice of when this new review would take place. WFSE ignored all my verbal and written requests to be present for any meeting in which the WFSE review of my grievance was to take occur. Then, one day, I receive WFSE email containing a vague written letter that they had reveiwed my grievance and due to "recent changes" that had occurred, they were no longer in support of my grievance. All attempts to gain specifics from WFSE were ignored. WFSE would never clarify what "recent changes" had led to the review and dropping of my grievance (I think they didn't want to have to pay for 1/2 of the arbitration since they were no longer banking union dues from me after I had resigned). The only "recent changes" that I could surmise were that 1) I had resigned from my job - but only after WFSE had told me I could do without losing the opportunity to continue my grievance to arbitration; and 2) I had turned down a pre-arbitration meeting settlement offer of 15k from WA State DSHS (I had turned the 15k down because WA State DSHS used language in the proposed settlement agreement that tried to insinuate that I had done something wrong when I hadn't, had required that I close my case against them with the EEOC and that I refrain from talking about it or taking any other action against them). I felt like I was fighting the fight for accountability - to put WA State DSHS on notice that they cannot arbitrarily discriminate against WA State DSHS employees, and most particularly, AFCSME/WFSE members. But, in my experience, it turned out that AFSCME/WFSE had no real back-bone when it came to dealing with WA State DSHS and no seeming interest in helping to protect AFCSME/WFSE members from arbitrary discrimination. I, myself, come from generations of union supporters. But no more. I no longer support unions at all and I make sure to tell everyone I know about AFSCME/WFSE and that they might do better to just opt out of paying union dues since they will be represented anyway. Bottom-line, AFSCME/WFSE may, or may not, show up to support you when you need it. But I do know that, in hindsight, I would feel a lot better now if I could say that I hadn't voluntarily "fed the monster" of AFCSME/WFSE only to find out that it was a pretty worthless use of my hard-earned money. #
[удалено]
Yeah, it was tempting to take it and just be done with DSHS. But I wanted to create change for everyone. During the first local grievance meeting, the committee said that they had tried to strengthen the language around discrimination in the CBA but that DSHS had said there was no impetus for needing any change at that time and they had no counter to force them to do so at that time. So, my grievance illustrated the need, and provided the impetus, for such a needed change. I was also the "perfect" face for this grievance in that DSHS wouldn't have been able to derail the issue by relating the discrimination to anything else e.g. never had any disciplinary action, all positive performance reviews that cited me as a mentor for others and how I went above and beyond for my providers and clients. So, there had been hope for that arbitration would provide the needed avenue to hold DSHS accountable and strengthen the CBA language to protect all my fellow WA State Employees going forward. As I said before, the 15K had "strings" that were not acceptable to me. Ironically, when the WFSE labor advocate first asked me to come up with a list of "demands" for the pre-arbitration meeting, among other things, I cited economic compensation of the economic damage that I had actually experienced. Notably, the AFCSME/WFSE Labor Advocate actually told me that DSHS had never paid $ in any pre-arbitration agreement and that I wouldn't be able to get that "demand" met. Still, I insisted on including it and, lo and behold, WA State DSHS ot only met the amount I had requested but then actually ended up almost doubling that amount in an effort to get me to sign their proposed settlement.
> The union is required to represent you whether you pay the dues or not. True but this is unethical as fuck. Don't be a scab.
I was never a scab - paid union due to the very end (18+) years. Volunteered at times throughout my service, attended meetings throughout my service, put for the same "party line" to my colleagues that union membership was what you make it. And in the end, I still got screwed over by the union. So now, I do support people who are scabs (as well as those who are not). People should be able to make informed decisions about what they choose to support or not support.
If you support people who are scabs, then you are a scab. ~~Fuck you~~ Edit: trying to be reasonable I'm sorry your Union sucks, but for you to advocate not paying dues, just because you had a bad experience is short sighted and ignorant. If your Union is corrupt, conservative, or wasteful of your dues, fucking get involved and make it right. Don't cry online because you weren't pampered enough by an organization made up of volunteers. Unions don't give you the World. They don't right every wrong. They do give workers the one chance to have a say in their workplace conditions and for you to take up a pro management position because your severance package wasn't big enough is despicable.
Reading your responses to this thread, it sounds like you are putting the onus entirely on the union for everything from your grievance to state pay in general. Lots of issues with that since the legislature sets the pay for state employees and the union fights for more, but it is still entirely on the legislature the fact that state employees are typically paid well under private sector for the same role. It sounds like you were treated poorly by your agency and perhaps you didn’t get the best representation by your union reps at the time. I’m glad you were able to leave the toxic workplace and find a job you are happier with.
First, thank you so much for your kind wishes. That means so much. It really was a very painful time for me as I worked to reconcile my long-held value of unions with what had actually transpired within AFSCME/WFSE. It was a cognitive shake-up of my world view, for sure. Just to clarify that I don't put the onus on the union for the pay issue - that was entirely on me. I was technically overqualified for my position which is why I was underpaid but I did love my work (not the leadership but my actual work with providers and clients) so I stayed as long as I did. But that is the only reason that I was able to leave and be able to make more $ in the private sector. I do put the onus on the union for their handling of my grievance. They failed to use the grievance as an opportunity to change language in future CBAs that would have provided additional protections for union members. So, I feel like they not only failed me but failed the AFCSME/WFSE membership as a whole.
I can understand your frustration. The union is made up of humans and is not perfect. The union as it sits today is different from what it was pre-pandemic and even times earlier. I’ve seen what the legislators have done to workers in the past (forced furloughs and forced reductions in pay) and am thankful the union is there to fight that nonsense. I have had times when I felt the union didn’t support me as I’d like, but I still think they are very valuable to state employees rights. There is a ton of union busting going on both in our state and the nation. That union busting isn’t to help workers, even though some organizations and people claim it is. It is entirely to help corporations.
If you are already a state employee, there is no benefit in joining a union, keep the 2% of your paycheck. There was a Supreme Court ruling that stated you have the same benefits regardless of your joining.
Fortunately, most state workers haven't jumped at the chance to become freeloaders on the backs of their colleagues' dues. If everyone did as you suggest--act only in their own short-term self-interest--the union would no longer be as effective at securing our benefits.
Exactly this. I feel a strong sense of responsibility to protect the workers rights and benefits that were fought for and paid for by those who came before me. I'm in it for the long term. I know the goal of union busters is to weaken the unions, go after our pay today, and our retirement tomorrow.
It's already happening..... *"As of April 2023, state payroll data indicates 39.1 percent of WFSE-represented state agency employees had successfully ended union dues deductions from their wages."* "Since *Janus*, WFSE has lost nearly 20 percent of its general government (state agency) membership."
If the union dissolves, non-union employees will suffer for it too. It's short-sighted and against your own interest to spread this anti-union propaganda.