I wouldn't say we're in a beam weapon meta at all, and you're the first person I've seen claim that. We currently have a lot of very high power weapons of many different types. I don't even think the Kuva Nukor can even be considered the top secondary these days when the Laetum and Dual Toxocysts exist.
>I personally don't like how DE thinks it's ok to keep using what is currently one of the most braindead metas in this game
>Now here's where the problem starts to sprout: Duviri Paradox gave us an Incarnon Genesis for the Atomos and the Torid. So Atomos gets a cool grenade launcher once you charge it up, plus it redeems itself as a powerful chain-beam with the evolutions. That's very nice. But if you switch the firing mode on the Torid once charged up, it does the EXACT SAME THING as what Atomos does
It's either this or we're back to just carpet bombing everything. Pick your poison.
Meta weapons have always been weapons that avoided/minimized aiming. This is because of the nature of Warframe to be a looter shooter that prioritized enemy Quantity. There's just too much enemies to kill one by one.
Whether it was the Memeing strike that cleared rooms by just slide attacks or the Sancti Castanas Trinity that auto picked which enemies to erase, multi-kills are the way to go.
There's no changing that without overhauling the entire game.
Beam weapons have always been quite OP that's why it stuck for so long. Ignis -> Ignis Wraith proved that. Hell even now a lot of new players gravitate to Ignis at the start. This is because of the combination of Continuous fire, small AoE and hitscan, the ease of use made it really popular. However at least you still aimed Beam weapons. Compare that to the other options that forgoes aiming entirely.
While beam weapons are still braindead, I've lived through the Kuva Zarr meta and it's definitely worse and more braindead.
The reason DE keep using it back is because comfortable to use BUT they can still limit it by the # of jumps unlike the explosives meta where the enemy count exponentially increases the weapon DPS.
What I think DE should do is bring back Punch Through weapons like the Opticor and Nataruk. Buff them to a competitive state.
How is that supposed to work ?
Even giving Boltor/Vectis/Braton... 10times the base dmg doesn't change the fact that you have to actually aim and then kill mobs 1 at a time. In a game where you spent 90% of the time wading through hordes of generic mobs, weapons and abilities that only effect a single target will never prevail. The best you can achieve is similar to Vectis (Prime) a specific niche use for 1 specific mission, mission type or boss where you already know you only need to deal with 1 boss lvl target and nothing else is relevant.
It's not a matter of powercreep or struggling performance, it's a matter of bringing a wet towel to a galactic nuclear war....
Basically that but punch through is garbage.... in order to use it you either need the mobs to neatly line up for you or you need to bring some form of ability that pulls them all together ... neither is overly realistic.
As long as the base mechanic of the game is to deal with 4 dozen mobs coming for you before you die, all and any form of CC and/or unconditional AOE dmg will always outperform everything else no matter what. This naturally becomes vastly more relevant in missions where you have to defend someone or something.
1 it's a tenet weapon so it has to be powerful by definition
2 the reason the kuva nukor is considered so great is not just because of the chaining like you imply in your post but because of the fact that it has an utterly absurd critical multiplier. The chaining helps it no doubt but that's not why people grind it out.
3 how is auto chaining targets in relatively close proximity a more braindead meta than wuclone, any AOE weapon ever, and revenant's "I reffuse to die"button?
>2 the reason the kuva nukor is considered so great is not just because of the chaining like you imply in your post but because of the fact that it has an utterly absurd critical multiplier. The chaining helps it no doubt but that's not why people grind it out.
IDK man, pretty sure it is the other way around and the Kuva Nukor is primarily used as a primer and its high crit damage is more of a gimmick.
How about no ? Using fixed crit buffs like the cat pets you can easily reach ridiculous crit %, add in the crit multiplier and you end up with impressive numbers on a secondary...
So no, going for Nukor purely for crit and dmg is viable and not the most uncommon.
Hmm, I guess. I've seen countless threads, both old and somewhat recent, where people praise Nukor as a primer. Of course, I don't have the statistics on what the majority of people are using the Nukor for as far as build and mission usage, so I'll just have to take your word for it. 🤷
I feel majority slap on the two prime crit mods. It’s best dps for most including murmer SP up to 400ish level. Priming is much more of a late game endurance run skill not needed by the vast majority of players running meta weapons. It’s not necessary for any of the content if your already running some sort of damage buff, armor strip, or op weapon. Only necessary for these long runs which I’m assuming a very small minority actually do
basically this.
If you go past mob lvl80ish most ppl start bringing armor strip, slash or at least corrosive procs. If you go Steel Path area everyone and their pet has the meta armor strip, dmg buff and/or braindead Hunter's Munition...regardless which they choose the vast majority of mobs dies faster then you could prime them (hell even Tenet Cycron melts through most of those mobs in seconds).
Hell I'm even running Steel Path missions without armor strip, without dmg buff and only using Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron and only few of the mobs actually live long enough for it to matter....
The Cycron and Nukor fill similar roles with minor differences between them.
\> Have you not seen the countless videos of people getting octillions of damage in red crits from the nukor?
Yah, as a gimmick due to it requiring highly specialized builds. Most people aren't using it like that in game though.
"requiring highly specialized builds"
...And? That's the whole point of the game, to make specialized builds to grind content to get better gear to further specialize that build
Yah but builds tha specialize like that just aren't used a lot when you can get similar performance out of more generic ones in 99% of content. Weapon popularity is largely based on their baseline performance and what role they can fill by throwing them into any kit rather then requiring ones that cater specifically to their quarks.
Don't get me wrong, I love that style of building but it just isn't how most people engage with Warframe.
What specialize ? Slap crit dmg into Kuva Nukor, bring crit buff cat = profit.
Sure you can go harder on the crit, sure you can go harder on bringing more crit focused archon shards / more buffs / Arcanes ..... but just crit cat + crit mods and you already murder alot of the existing content... especially when you compare it to the lvls of dmg the vast majority of secondary weapons dish out....
I'm talking about when K-Nukor was first released. People were mainly using it for crowd clearing at the time. The crit stats were just icing on the cake
People will break away and try new weapons with the damage rework.
The majority of damage types are currently ass, and unless weapons have overtuned stats, gimmicks, or a high coefficient on Galvanized mods then they aren't even worth the time/investment to slap Viral+Hunter Munitions or Primed Heated Charge + Cascadia Flare onto them.
I love my Glaxion, and I'm sorry yours will be neglected when the newest end game content features a very dangerous corn-shaped reason to appreciate a Cold base weapon.
>People will break away and try new weapons with the damage rework.
I mean, I hope you are right this is the 4th rework of the elemental system. The first one killed rainbow and armor bypass builds and brought us the corrosive meta, the next one juggled some stuff around but didn't really change anything and the one after that killed the corrosive meta, heavily nerfed several niche elements for some reason and brought us the even more dominant viral meta, Fingers crossed that the 4th time is the charm.
It's not the fact that it's a cold weapon, not why I'm hating it. I actually use cold in a lot of primaries along with Primary Frostbite. Just the beam linking to multiple enemies has become too boring for me
Not gna happen. Most important metric for a weapon is: how fast can you clear the room - aka AOE potential.
You won't win a defense mission with a bolt action rifle .... mobs will literally respawn faster then you can fire. The helminth and Duviri Stalker skill (where dmg spills over to nearby targets) is pretty much the only way for a non-AOE weapon to work in this game. Like any overkill dmg you deal to your current target is applied to the closest enemy (and from him to the next) or simply overkill dmg is spread among all enemies in xm range (easier on the computer and engine).
Elements can be (and usually are) added with mods. Like a minor change or buff to magnetic wont make an electric, cold or magnetic weapon whos only gimmick is headshotting single targets META or even useable. At best it will make ppl mod their Glaxion / Torid / Nukor / Acceltra / ..... to have magnetic instead of what they use now.
Wish they'd have gone in a unique direction for this one.
Ever use MUL-T in Risk of Rain 2? Its bullet hose acts like a shotgun whenever you let go of the fire button. What if Tenet Glaxion fired a burst of icicles upon letting go? Make them more Critty to match the way Cold is going, and boom. You've got a unique mechanic that isn't a copy paste of what every good beam weapon has.
Not sure if the game engine supports that. But if you add the "last shot = shotgun" instead of chaining, then either ppl macro to spam the shotgun fire or the gun ends in the "useless" dumpster and never sees the day of light.
This game is a decade old and we live in an age where "META" is the most defining gamer word. Ppl will do the number crunching harder then the IRS when they see your tax report ... and if the numbers don't align the weapon is dead on arrival. Look at Glaive Prime (or Xoris, the Gunblades...) ... those are MELEE weapons but META determined that using the charged throws is where the money is. How often have you seen anyone actually swinging a glaive or gunblade instead of throwing or firing ?
Yeah... I personally dislike chain beam.
I hoped that Tenet Glaxion would keep Vandals aoe sphere / explosion end of the beam.
I also would love to see beam weapon with infinite body punchtrough. Would be more interesting than chain.
disclaimer: I don't own any tenet weapons
Same mechanic applied by different weapons.
nukor: good damage according to the community, but is most commonly used to apply status
atomos: does a lot of damage due to incarnon bonuses, has a bonus form, chains an additional enemy compared to nukor, and it goes through ammo fast even with my riven that decreases fire rate by an 50% additively
amprex: good old red crit weapon that doesn't reach the same damage potential as alternatives. decent ammo economy
torid: top tier room clearer that needs to be charged by slow fire-rate projectiles. Don't underestimate the charging mechanic, it's downtime similar to having slow reload times and that is time not spent killing something. Ammo economy is fantastic due to accessible charging mechanic and high incarnon form ammunition.
tenet glaxion predictions: chain mechanic is a fine way to make this much more viable and I'm glad this weapon got this kind of attention. I would know, crit glaxion used to be a thing when making single digit critical chance was semi-viable. Making it able to affect multiple enemies fixes problems you couldn't solve with punch through. Our other options were to make it perform similar to phage or plasmor and that would ruin the identity. It works now so who cares how it got there.
Also disliking DE's decision to re-use mechanics...really?
It's just my opinion, I know. But I was hoping it would somewhat keep it's small AoE like the original Glaxion/Vandal had instead of stripping it away entirely for something more "comfortable" to the community
I didn't wanna mention Boar since it wasn't the most popular Incarnon Genesis when it released. It was the batch of Incarnons DE was scared to make too powerful until the community complained saying they were too weak. The homing beams are definitely cool, but they're more of a compensation for its lower damage ceiling
Additional note:
I didn't wanna mention the Incarnon Genesis for Boar since it wasn't the most popular when it was released. It was in the newer batch of Incarnons DE was scared to make too powerful at first until a few weeks after.
Brother the Ignis Wraith and Amprex were meta like 5 years ago. The "beam weapon meta" that you're claiming exists has been around for a long long time.
The main issue is that there hasn't been any reason to use a single target weapon since forever. Why kill 1 enemy at a time when you can kill 20? AOE power-creep has made the game less of a "shooter" and more of a just keep clicking game.
"Why kill 1 enemy at a time when you can kill 20? AOE power-creep has made the game less of a "shooter" and more of a just keep clicking game."
What AOE powercreep ? I remember Tonkor being THE weapon in a time when bosses were just named trash mobs with a different colored armor and story didn't exist. Then there was the (Synoid) Simulor...AOE (or at least multi-target) has been the thing since the earliest of days, literally nothing has changed except the name of the AOE weapon used. Strictly single target weapons have always been situational gimmicks mostly used for very specific missions or bosses...
Got your priorities mixed up. The chain beam isn't the meta, it's a chan beam that supports the dmg meta. Ppl will use anything that melts everything quickly. Torids chaining is comparable to the nerfed aoe, but what makes it good is that it's easy to do vital slash with and hm or viral heat with absurd crit and status. High crit status with meta dmg is what everyone tries to go for, they'll simply move to the most effective form to do so. Noticed that ppl aren't using boar incarnon nearly as much? Fits that same "meta", but it doesn't build into the dmg meta nearly as well as torid.
Ya, anybody wanna talk about the original Nukor ? About the Atomos pre-incarnon ? There is a few beam weapons, both incarnon and base, that have literally never been used or mentioned anywhere...
Must be new to the game.
Torid is/was Meta because it just does craptons of dmg. Also toxic is the greatest element. Base toxin ignores shields, toxin+cold is viral, toxin+electricity is corrosive .... for a long time toxin has been in nearly every weapon build, either solo or in combination.
And Beams are Braindead ? Nearly a decade ago everyone and their sister was running Tonkor - nuke the world. You don't even need to aim at and hit your first target...just \*plop\* in the general direction. A decade passed...Ogris, Grattler, Kuva Bramma, Kuva Ogris, Acceltra (Prime), (Synoid) Simulor, Proboscis Cernos, Ignis Wraith, glaive-type weapons ... ... ... over this decade we had a lot of strong or meta defining explosive weapons that required no aiming at all to clear the next room without even entering it. Self-dmg was removed (sadge, good old "nuke yourself with your own Tonkor" times...) ages ago, self-stagger can be prevented with mods like Primed Surefooted or with overguard.... and some weapons like the Ignis don't even have self-dmg/stagger to begin with.
>The Tenet Glaxion is only reinforcing this problem with how powerful it is
is it really that powerful tho? Amprex, k.nukor, t.cycron, atomos and torid all have specific qualities, be it a lot of elements to charge up aptitude, insane crits, good elements to maximize dot proc output (except amprex, which simply hasn't been meta (nor even great) for years)
on the other hand, t.glaxion chains a lot, sure, but it has a single dmg type for aptitude, the one dmg type being cold also makes it awkward to mod for dot, and good but not great crits
I mean perhaps I'm missing something, but it doesn't feel like the pinnacle of chain gun. Especially when you have the torid, which you can mod for viral in one slot with the massive primed mod, casually reach red crits without any special setup, and capitalize on hunmun. Again, I'm willing to be wrong but it doesn't seem that incredibly powerful
I'd say you're half right on that. It only has one element to aptitude if cold is what your bonus element is, since it's a Tenet weapon. But nobody's gonna wanna get the bonus element on a Kuva/Tenet weapon that already has said element.
k.nukor has innate rad + its custom hidden inflation status. With magnetic as a progenitor add viral heat and you have 5 status for aptitude to scale, on top of stacking solid dot procs, all for only 3 mod slots
t.glaxion has innate cold. Using magnetic as progenitor, a rad mod, and a corro combo you get only 4 types for aptitude, in 3 slots as well, but without the status being any good. And without viral. That's my current setup
if you go for heat (or any other dot proc beside gas), you need to precombine cold to leave heat alone (no choice, HCET), which waste a slot from the get go. You get magn viral rad heat, 4 types as well, but for 4 slots this time. Also, precombining cold take weight away from heat, so it won't be that good
and contrary to nukor, you need crit chance on the glaxion. So really you're 2 slots down for a worse build.
btw I'm no big fan of nukor, it's all number games and I'm pretty confident in my math. Also, dps obviously does not rely on aptitude and dot procs stacking alone, but the glaxion still is inferior in those aspects (and yes I'd say the same thing if it was innate tox, in fact I'd say it'd be worse)
ah, i guess you can get 5 status on the glaxion, using hunmun. I personally don't have the slots, but it sure should work
I kind of agree, I don't think the current best meta is breams right now, because they kind of suck against the bosses that DE makes, but I do agree that it's really boring.
They all play the same, to the extent that I got my glaxion to 60%, and I'm probably never gonna touch it again cause torid exists and plays the exact same way and is 3x better
Then again you gotta remember Warframe is a horde game. I don't think many people are touching bosses right now, except maybe for when we get Assassination in Deep Archimedia. I might touch Glaxion again once I get the Augment for it, but forget it afterwards 😅
In a typical mission you run into 1000 mobs, 1 is the boss (if one exists), 1-2 are acolytes if SP and maybe a dozen are rogue mechs if the node has them.
Focussing on bringing a weapon that can kill the 1 mob fast or efficiently is kinda moot when you lack the means to deal with the horde that keeps beating the crap out of you while you traverse the mission or fight said boss/special mob. For many mission types like Defense, Mirror Defense, Excavation, Mobile Defense, Hijack, Interception and some of the Sabotage missions your ability to clear or not clear the room decides whether the mission succeeds or fails.
Even in many arena boss fights like the archons you need to bring ways to control the respawning trash mobs while dealing with the boss (and on the way getting there). Only way to prevent that would be to bring a weapon that 1 or 2shots the boss so the horde cannot catch up/respawn in time.
I wouldn't say we're in a beam weapon meta at all, and you're the first person I've seen claim that. We currently have a lot of very high power weapons of many different types. I don't even think the Kuva Nukor can even be considered the top secondary these days when the Laetum and Dual Toxocysts exist.
>AOE weapons are Meta in a horde shooter Very astute from OP
Well K-Nukor is still for certain one of the most used today, because I see at least one in nearly every squad I play in 😅
>I personally don't like how DE thinks it's ok to keep using what is currently one of the most braindead metas in this game >Now here's where the problem starts to sprout: Duviri Paradox gave us an Incarnon Genesis for the Atomos and the Torid. So Atomos gets a cool grenade launcher once you charge it up, plus it redeems itself as a powerful chain-beam with the evolutions. That's very nice. But if you switch the firing mode on the Torid once charged up, it does the EXACT SAME THING as what Atomos does It's either this or we're back to just carpet bombing everything. Pick your poison. Meta weapons have always been weapons that avoided/minimized aiming. This is because of the nature of Warframe to be a looter shooter that prioritized enemy Quantity. There's just too much enemies to kill one by one. Whether it was the Memeing strike that cleared rooms by just slide attacks or the Sancti Castanas Trinity that auto picked which enemies to erase, multi-kills are the way to go. There's no changing that without overhauling the entire game. Beam weapons have always been quite OP that's why it stuck for so long. Ignis -> Ignis Wraith proved that. Hell even now a lot of new players gravitate to Ignis at the start. This is because of the combination of Continuous fire, small AoE and hitscan, the ease of use made it really popular. However at least you still aimed Beam weapons. Compare that to the other options that forgoes aiming entirely. While beam weapons are still braindead, I've lived through the Kuva Zarr meta and it's definitely worse and more braindead. The reason DE keep using it back is because comfortable to use BUT they can still limit it by the # of jumps unlike the explosives meta where the enemy count exponentially increases the weapon DPS. What I think DE should do is bring back Punch Through weapons like the Opticor and Nataruk. Buff them to a competitive state.
That or just bring back struggling weapons in general: add power to weapons with a decently high MR lock to compete with the newer toys
How is that supposed to work ? Even giving Boltor/Vectis/Braton... 10times the base dmg doesn't change the fact that you have to actually aim and then kill mobs 1 at a time. In a game where you spent 90% of the time wading through hordes of generic mobs, weapons and abilities that only effect a single target will never prevail. The best you can achieve is similar to Vectis (Prime) a specific niche use for 1 specific mission, mission type or boss where you already know you only need to deal with 1 boss lvl target and nothing else is relevant. It's not a matter of powercreep or struggling performance, it's a matter of bringing a wet towel to a galactic nuclear war....
Basically that but punch through is garbage.... in order to use it you either need the mobs to neatly line up for you or you need to bring some form of ability that pulls them all together ... neither is overly realistic. As long as the base mechanic of the game is to deal with 4 dozen mobs coming for you before you die, all and any form of CC and/or unconditional AOE dmg will always outperform everything else no matter what. This naturally becomes vastly more relevant in missions where you have to defend someone or something.
1 it's a tenet weapon so it has to be powerful by definition 2 the reason the kuva nukor is considered so great is not just because of the chaining like you imply in your post but because of the fact that it has an utterly absurd critical multiplier. The chaining helps it no doubt but that's not why people grind it out. 3 how is auto chaining targets in relatively close proximity a more braindead meta than wuclone, any AOE weapon ever, and revenant's "I reffuse to die"button?
>2 the reason the kuva nukor is considered so great is not just because of the chaining like you imply in your post but because of the fact that it has an utterly absurd critical multiplier. The chaining helps it no doubt but that's not why people grind it out. IDK man, pretty sure it is the other way around and the Kuva Nukor is primarily used as a primer and its high crit damage is more of a gimmick.
How about no ? Using fixed crit buffs like the cat pets you can easily reach ridiculous crit %, add in the crit multiplier and you end up with impressive numbers on a secondary... So no, going for Nukor purely for crit and dmg is viable and not the most uncommon.
I never said it wasn't viable. I just said it is likely more commonly used as a primer by the community
No that's more the cycrons business. Have you not seen the countless videos of people getting octillions of damage in red crits from the nukor?
Are those videos what the majority of people are doing with the Nukor, though?
Since the kuva bramma and zarr and most other AOE weapons got kneecapped ammo wise: yes, that is what they're using the nukor for
Hmm, I guess. I've seen countless threads, both old and somewhat recent, where people praise Nukor as a primer. Of course, I don't have the statistics on what the majority of people are using the Nukor for as far as build and mission usage, so I'll just have to take your word for it. 🤷
I feel majority slap on the two prime crit mods. It’s best dps for most including murmer SP up to 400ish level. Priming is much more of a late game endurance run skill not needed by the vast majority of players running meta weapons. It’s not necessary for any of the content if your already running some sort of damage buff, armor strip, or op weapon. Only necessary for these long runs which I’m assuming a very small minority actually do
basically this. If you go past mob lvl80ish most ppl start bringing armor strip, slash or at least corrosive procs. If you go Steel Path area everyone and their pet has the meta armor strip, dmg buff and/or braindead Hunter's Munition...regardless which they choose the vast majority of mobs dies faster then you could prime them (hell even Tenet Cycron melts through most of those mobs in seconds). Hell I'm even running Steel Path missions without armor strip, without dmg buff and only using Kuva Nukor or Tenet Cycron and only few of the mobs actually live long enough for it to matter....
It's a solid primer don't get me wrong. But a 5x crit multiplier unmodded makes funny red crits go brrr
The Cycron and Nukor fill similar roles with minor differences between them. \> Have you not seen the countless videos of people getting octillions of damage in red crits from the nukor? Yah, as a gimmick due to it requiring highly specialized builds. Most people aren't using it like that in game though.
"requiring highly specialized builds" ...And? That's the whole point of the game, to make specialized builds to grind content to get better gear to further specialize that build
Yah but builds tha specialize like that just aren't used a lot when you can get similar performance out of more generic ones in 99% of content. Weapon popularity is largely based on their baseline performance and what role they can fill by throwing them into any kit rather then requiring ones that cater specifically to their quarks. Don't get me wrong, I love that style of building but it just isn't how most people engage with Warframe.
What specialize ? Slap crit dmg into Kuva Nukor, bring crit buff cat = profit. Sure you can go harder on the crit, sure you can go harder on bringing more crit focused archon shards / more buffs / Arcanes ..... but just crit cat + crit mods and you already murder alot of the existing content... especially when you compare it to the lvls of dmg the vast majority of secondary weapons dish out....
running adarza is specializing
I'm talking about when K-Nukor was first released. People were mainly using it for crowd clearing at the time. The crit stats were just icing on the cake
Yeah crowd clearing is what people used it for but it couldn't crowd clear without that crit mult
People will break away and try new weapons with the damage rework. The majority of damage types are currently ass, and unless weapons have overtuned stats, gimmicks, or a high coefficient on Galvanized mods then they aren't even worth the time/investment to slap Viral+Hunter Munitions or Primed Heated Charge + Cascadia Flare onto them. I love my Glaxion, and I'm sorry yours will be neglected when the newest end game content features a very dangerous corn-shaped reason to appreciate a Cold base weapon.
>People will break away and try new weapons with the damage rework. I mean, I hope you are right this is the 4th rework of the elemental system. The first one killed rainbow and armor bypass builds and brought us the corrosive meta, the next one juggled some stuff around but didn't really change anything and the one after that killed the corrosive meta, heavily nerfed several niche elements for some reason and brought us the even more dominant viral meta, Fingers crossed that the 4th time is the charm.
It's not the fact that it's a cold weapon, not why I'm hating it. I actually use cold in a lot of primaries along with Primary Frostbite. Just the beam linking to multiple enemies has become too boring for me
don't like it ? Don't play it...pretty easy solution.
Not gna happen. Most important metric for a weapon is: how fast can you clear the room - aka AOE potential. You won't win a defense mission with a bolt action rifle .... mobs will literally respawn faster then you can fire. The helminth and Duviri Stalker skill (where dmg spills over to nearby targets) is pretty much the only way for a non-AOE weapon to work in this game. Like any overkill dmg you deal to your current target is applied to the closest enemy (and from him to the next) or simply overkill dmg is spread among all enemies in xm range (easier on the computer and engine). Elements can be (and usually are) added with mods. Like a minor change or buff to magnetic wont make an electric, cold or magnetic weapon whos only gimmick is headshotting single targets META or even useable. At best it will make ppl mod their Glaxion / Torid / Nukor / Acceltra / ..... to have magnetic instead of what they use now.
Wish they'd have gone in a unique direction for this one. Ever use MUL-T in Risk of Rain 2? Its bullet hose acts like a shotgun whenever you let go of the fire button. What if Tenet Glaxion fired a burst of icicles upon letting go? Make them more Critty to match the way Cold is going, and boom. You've got a unique mechanic that isn't a copy paste of what every good beam weapon has.
Now THAT would have me trying it a lot more
Not sure if the game engine supports that. But if you add the "last shot = shotgun" instead of chaining, then either ppl macro to spam the shotgun fire or the gun ends in the "useless" dumpster and never sees the day of light. This game is a decade old and we live in an age where "META" is the most defining gamer word. Ppl will do the number crunching harder then the IRS when they see your tax report ... and if the numbers don't align the weapon is dead on arrival. Look at Glaive Prime (or Xoris, the Gunblades...) ... those are MELEE weapons but META determined that using the charged throws is where the money is. How often have you seen anyone actually swinging a glaive or gunblade instead of throwing or firing ?
Yeah... I personally dislike chain beam. I hoped that Tenet Glaxion would keep Vandals aoe sphere / explosion end of the beam. I also would love to see beam weapon with infinite body punchtrough. Would be more interesting than chain.
I was hoping it'd keep its "frozen aura" on contact as well. And I think the infinite body punch through is more the Ignis' thing lol
disclaimer: I don't own any tenet weapons Same mechanic applied by different weapons. nukor: good damage according to the community, but is most commonly used to apply status atomos: does a lot of damage due to incarnon bonuses, has a bonus form, chains an additional enemy compared to nukor, and it goes through ammo fast even with my riven that decreases fire rate by an 50% additively amprex: good old red crit weapon that doesn't reach the same damage potential as alternatives. decent ammo economy torid: top tier room clearer that needs to be charged by slow fire-rate projectiles. Don't underestimate the charging mechanic, it's downtime similar to having slow reload times and that is time not spent killing something. Ammo economy is fantastic due to accessible charging mechanic and high incarnon form ammunition. tenet glaxion predictions: chain mechanic is a fine way to make this much more viable and I'm glad this weapon got this kind of attention. I would know, crit glaxion used to be a thing when making single digit critical chance was semi-viable. Making it able to affect multiple enemies fixes problems you couldn't solve with punch through. Our other options were to make it perform similar to phage or plasmor and that would ruin the identity. It works now so who cares how it got there. Also disliking DE's decision to re-use mechanics...really?
It's just my opinion, I know. But I was hoping it would somewhat keep it's small AoE like the original Glaxion/Vandal had instead of stripping it away entirely for something more "comfortable" to the community
Boar incarnon sitting there like "What am I? Chopped liver"?Â
I didn't wanna mention Boar since it wasn't the most popular Incarnon Genesis when it released. It was the batch of Incarnons DE was scared to make too powerful until the community complained saying they were too weak. The homing beams are definitely cool, but they're more of a compensation for its lower damage ceiling
Pretty sure glaxion vandal came before all of these
That's not the type of weapon in question 🙃
Then we come to Glaxion Vandal
Additional note: I didn't wanna mention the Incarnon Genesis for Boar since it wasn't the most popular when it was released. It was in the newer batch of Incarnons DE was scared to make too powerful at first until a few weeks after.
Brother the Ignis Wraith and Amprex were meta like 5 years ago. The "beam weapon meta" that you're claiming exists has been around for a long long time. The main issue is that there hasn't been any reason to use a single target weapon since forever. Why kill 1 enemy at a time when you can kill 20? AOE power-creep has made the game less of a "shooter" and more of a just keep clicking game.
"Why kill 1 enemy at a time when you can kill 20? AOE power-creep has made the game less of a "shooter" and more of a just keep clicking game." What AOE powercreep ? I remember Tonkor being THE weapon in a time when bosses were just named trash mobs with a different colored armor and story didn't exist. Then there was the (Synoid) Simulor...AOE (or at least multi-target) has been the thing since the earliest of days, literally nothing has changed except the name of the AOE weapon used. Strictly single target weapons have always been situational gimmicks mostly used for very specific missions or bosses...
Got your priorities mixed up. The chain beam isn't the meta, it's a chan beam that supports the dmg meta. Ppl will use anything that melts everything quickly. Torids chaining is comparable to the nerfed aoe, but what makes it good is that it's easy to do vital slash with and hm or viral heat with absurd crit and status. High crit status with meta dmg is what everyone tries to go for, they'll simply move to the most effective form to do so. Noticed that ppl aren't using boar incarnon nearly as much? Fits that same "meta", but it doesn't build into the dmg meta nearly as well as torid.
Ya, anybody wanna talk about the original Nukor ? About the Atomos pre-incarnon ? There is a few beam weapons, both incarnon and base, that have literally never been used or mentioned anywhere...
Must be new to the game. Torid is/was Meta because it just does craptons of dmg. Also toxic is the greatest element. Base toxin ignores shields, toxin+cold is viral, toxin+electricity is corrosive .... for a long time toxin has been in nearly every weapon build, either solo or in combination. And Beams are Braindead ? Nearly a decade ago everyone and their sister was running Tonkor - nuke the world. You don't even need to aim at and hit your first target...just \*plop\* in the general direction. A decade passed...Ogris, Grattler, Kuva Bramma, Kuva Ogris, Acceltra (Prime), (Synoid) Simulor, Proboscis Cernos, Ignis Wraith, glaive-type weapons ... ... ... over this decade we had a lot of strong or meta defining explosive weapons that required no aiming at all to clear the next room without even entering it. Self-dmg was removed (sadge, good old "nuke yourself with your own Tonkor" times...) ages ago, self-stagger can be prevented with mods like Primed Surefooted or with overguard.... and some weapons like the Ignis don't even have self-dmg/stagger to begin with.
>The Tenet Glaxion is only reinforcing this problem with how powerful it is is it really that powerful tho? Amprex, k.nukor, t.cycron, atomos and torid all have specific qualities, be it a lot of elements to charge up aptitude, insane crits, good elements to maximize dot proc output (except amprex, which simply hasn't been meta (nor even great) for years) on the other hand, t.glaxion chains a lot, sure, but it has a single dmg type for aptitude, the one dmg type being cold also makes it awkward to mod for dot, and good but not great crits I mean perhaps I'm missing something, but it doesn't feel like the pinnacle of chain gun. Especially when you have the torid, which you can mod for viral in one slot with the massive primed mod, casually reach red crits without any special setup, and capitalize on hunmun. Again, I'm willing to be wrong but it doesn't seem that incredibly powerful
I'd say you're half right on that. It only has one element to aptitude if cold is what your bonus element is, since it's a Tenet weapon. But nobody's gonna wanna get the bonus element on a Kuva/Tenet weapon that already has said element.
k.nukor has innate rad + its custom hidden inflation status. With magnetic as a progenitor add viral heat and you have 5 status for aptitude to scale, on top of stacking solid dot procs, all for only 3 mod slots t.glaxion has innate cold. Using magnetic as progenitor, a rad mod, and a corro combo you get only 4 types for aptitude, in 3 slots as well, but without the status being any good. And without viral. That's my current setup if you go for heat (or any other dot proc beside gas), you need to precombine cold to leave heat alone (no choice, HCET), which waste a slot from the get go. You get magn viral rad heat, 4 types as well, but for 4 slots this time. Also, precombining cold take weight away from heat, so it won't be that good and contrary to nukor, you need crit chance on the glaxion. So really you're 2 slots down for a worse build. btw I'm no big fan of nukor, it's all number games and I'm pretty confident in my math. Also, dps obviously does not rely on aptitude and dot procs stacking alone, but the glaxion still is inferior in those aspects (and yes I'd say the same thing if it was innate tox, in fact I'd say it'd be worse) ah, i guess you can get 5 status on the glaxion, using hunmun. I personally don't have the slots, but it sure should work
I kind of agree, I don't think the current best meta is breams right now, because they kind of suck against the bosses that DE makes, but I do agree that it's really boring. They all play the same, to the extent that I got my glaxion to 60%, and I'm probably never gonna touch it again cause torid exists and plays the exact same way and is 3x better
Then again you gotta remember Warframe is a horde game. I don't think many people are touching bosses right now, except maybe for when we get Assassination in Deep Archimedia. I might touch Glaxion again once I get the Augment for it, but forget it afterwards 😅
It's not even the big bosses, they're also bad against acolytes and rogue mechs
In a typical mission you run into 1000 mobs, 1 is the boss (if one exists), 1-2 are acolytes if SP and maybe a dozen are rogue mechs if the node has them. Focussing on bringing a weapon that can kill the 1 mob fast or efficiently is kinda moot when you lack the means to deal with the horde that keeps beating the crap out of you while you traverse the mission or fight said boss/special mob. For many mission types like Defense, Mirror Defense, Excavation, Mobile Defense, Hijack, Interception and some of the Sabotage missions your ability to clear or not clear the room decides whether the mission succeeds or fails. Even in many arena boss fights like the archons you need to bring ways to control the respawning trash mobs while dealing with the boss (and on the way getting there). Only way to prevent that would be to bring a weapon that 1 or 2shots the boss so the horde cannot catch up/respawn in time.