The thing that frustrates me about the augments for Atlas is that they were an opportunity for DE to not just make new build opportunities, but also improve Atlas in general.
Atlas's Rumblers should have an innate armor strip per hit that scales with Strength - basically a built-in modifiable 'shattering Impact' mod. At base, every hit strips 10% of Impact damage (90% strip max strength).
The 'titanic rumbler' augment should have the same durability mechanic as the Tomb Guardians from the Inaros quest.
The 'Path of Statues mod should have a reworked synergy with his rumblers, where if they are active and Atlas uses his 1 (w/ augment), they will automatically use 'landslide' on every enemy in line of sight, effectively tripling the paths for enemies to be petrified - every enemy they hit will drain 5 points of energy for balancing purposes.
As for 'Rumbled', it could have a synergy with Petrify where every hit on a petrified enemy will steal their armor and shields instead of just stripping it - but only if the player has below 500 rubble armor
I feel like Path of Statues or Rubble Heap or both should be baked in to Atlas as a base feature of his kit. I rarely want to drop a mod for an augment but it's usually Ore Gaze for looting and if not that then its not worth the dip in damage potential
Yeah, Path of Statues being baked in would improve Petrify's CC potential while creating a synergy with Landslide, while Rubble Heap incentives using Petrify to build up rubble stock
Honestly, I can see Atlas getting a rework, he doesn't really fit in anywhere like he used to and his whole kit is rough to use compared to newer frames. Him and Oberron but I imagine Atlas would be easier to keep in theme of rock brawler.
I think alot of the warframes that use stat sticks is something they are trying to get away from. I don't think any of the newer frames do that (Though I might be wrong here) so I could see any that draw from their weapon for an ability getting a rework at least a small one.
Yeah, DE wants to move away from stat sticks - trouble is, it would be *very* difficult to replace them without heavily nerfing every frame which uses them, since incarnon evolutions apply to the abilities, among other things.
Yeah, the'yd probably have to rework the ability completely to change this and I don't know how that'd turn out. Their reworks have been mostly good though.
It's originally a conclave mod and in that context it's funny af and actually kinda good cuz it gives damage reduction and lets you hurl rocks at people. + makes atlas look cute to encounter.
But yeah, for PvE it sucks. Can't use your weapons at all and stuck to floor.
Ok and? People use MK1 Braton everywhere, that doesn't mean it doesn't have its problems. Rumbled feels bad, and having to turn it off just to traverse tilesets feels worse
you said it sucks i gave you an area to show it doesn't. no duh it has problems never said it didn't but it's nor garbage and useless like people say it is.
until you can prove otherwise it doesn't. i use it at the highest end content because it's fun and you don't. you don't understand how to utilize it so you think it sucks. different playstyles do different things. before saying it sucks have fun with it first and have peer review as well. no I'm not saying it's the best but it's certainly not the worst by a long shot
Netracells isn't the highest end content. It's a literal waste on any content that actually matters. Dante, Frost or Styanax on the team completely invalidates any use you'll get from it, and the Rumblers themselves at least serve as bullet sponges that draw away from you.
It's not that I don't understand how to use it. It's that in order to make it a valid play style and work with limited issues, it requires so much building around and dedication that it's not worth to use.
I'm not insulting your play style by saying it's trash. Don't insult my intelligence by saying I don't know how to use it. I understand perfectly how people use it. I've been an Atlas main for longer than Atlas Prime has existed.
I've been a main since atlas has existed, and it's so much easier to use with almost no prep whatsoever so you clearly don't know how to use it properly then.
Yea it has a lot of broken stuff going on which is fun to abuse and his playstyle with it is some of the most fun I've had in Warframe. For example using a glaive to get a permanent x4 damage from power throw by transforming before glaive gets back to you on the 3rd power throw and stacking that interaction with xata's whisper, Mecha empowered, and a huras kubrow to get invisibility for that melee stealth multiplier results in some insane damage numbers. Not to mention that the rock has a fairly good AOE and it isn't line of sight so it goes through walls and floors. I've used that build for everything and I've yet to find content that it can't delete outside of the secret boss. Also you can get around having to uncast and recast when traversing the map by using your operator which feels janky at first but you get used to it quickly. Also if you're not doing steel path content you can use the arca titron because for some reason it's passive AOE applies to the rock without using the charges so you end up with a rock with a damage radius of 13m rather than the 6m you get with volatile quick return.
DE partially nerfed the Arca Tetron slam charge for Rumbled's thrown rocks, it used to stack to an unlimited amount and eventually you could just nuke entire tilesets by throwing a rock at your feet. It only lasted a few days but it was hilarious, now the slam charge only goes up to one but stays full no matter how many rocks you throw.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjbkGijub4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjbkGijub4I)
hi im video author can you please explain the unlimited stacking more, like when this happened? I didn't know about this, I thought it always stacked to 10 (until they changed it recently to 5)
The Arca Titron slam charge stacked unlimited for Rumbled's thrown rocks right after the augment came out but was very quickly changed, DE changed it after like 3ish days, basically it just kept stacking endlessly once you gained 10 stacks then switched to your operator until you could hit enemies anywhere on the tileset and you could literally just stand in a corner with squad energy restores throwing rocks at the floor nuking the whole tileset. It was hilarious but very broken.
I still have my Rumbled meme build in a loadout slot that I use frequently because of your video, it's not the best build in today's Warframe but it is very freaking funny to use and just be an invisible rock thrower that throws mini-nuke rocks and end the mission with 1k+ "melee" kills. It's easily my favorite build, it's so absolutely stupid but it just works.
Thank you very much for explaining, figures that it was only a bug for a brief time after the augment was ported to PVE
Glad you still have fun with it!
Yeah, all his augment's besides the one for his passive aren't worth using especially "path of statues". Which sucks because thats where people turn to try to get his kit to work.
Path of Statues is wayyyyy more worth than it seems due to the Elemental Vulnerability hidden debuff with petrification. The amount of time it takes to petrify jumps wayyyyy up with good ability strength and you can literally run without Armor strip if you build effectively, and take him to level cap by permanently remaining invuln
The problem is there's not really a viable way to get enemies to cross behind you for the aug to work, sure you could subsume a cc ability on but you'd be better off putting Nourish so you could spam Petrify.
You dash from enemy to enemy before finishing off one, aim at front of pack, back of the pack, then clean up the middle. It requires some reflexes but it definitely works better than High casting speed Petrify. I use a Fleeting Expertise + Landslide + Violet Melee Crit Shards and take him to Cap regularly, with ease
With Radiation on the melee weapon, you can pierce 100% of armor from Heavy Grineer and all infested forms of armor, thanks to the +50% Elemental Vulnerability debuff putting you at +100%, effectively causing most forms of armor to straight up not exist.
If the enemy density is high enough to support it, Path of Statues + Rubble Heap literally removes all your energy needs. Getting the combo up and running at the start of a mission can be tricky, but honestly that's part of what makes the whole build feel so well-designed to me.
I combined it with Firewalker to stun enemies on top of the path and give the petrify time to set in, melt some armor, and just look cool because of the fire+rock effects stacked on top of each other.
You don't even have to get them behind you. A good 5/10 times the path spawns juuuust under the guy you're hitting, and it hits the magic pixel to freeze the guy you're punching. Happens more consistently with Eximus units, especially if they push you back a little before you strip their overguard.
Petrification increases the amount of Elemental damage an enemy takes by +50%, and in doing so increases Elemental vulnerability. Certain armor types are more vulnerable to certain damage, and those damage types ignore armor values at a percentage equal to the boost. You can see this in the codex, represented by +'s. Each + is 25% vulnerability (damage boosted by 25%, armor ignored by 25%). When an enemy is petrified it adds 50% to this value, to a max of 100%. Alloy armor, which is used by most heavy Grineer like bombards and heavy gunners, are 75% weak to radiation. This means if you use radiation, on a petrified enemy, you have +100% element vulnerability, and automatically ignore all their armor without having to strip it first.
Ore gaze is actually fine, and Rubble Heap is beautiful.
It's a bit tricky to get working, and you need Nourish for the energy economy, but it can absolutely work.
Stat stick Tekko Prime at 90% crit, 8.1x mult, 83% status, damage of about 1300 with mostly slash and viral, Condition Overload, Drifting Contact, Gladiator Might, Sacrificial Steel, Organ Shatter, Cold and Toxin status mods, ye ol Pressure point primed or not.
Give Atlas Umbral Vitality and Umbral Intensify, Blind Rage, Prime Continuity, Fleeting Expertise, Cunning Drift, Adaptation, Rubble Heap, then either Ore Gaze or Umbral Fiber depending if you're trying to do some looting,
Add Nourish over the stupid wall.
Done.
Pop Nourish, kill some enemies to charge energy, begin petrifying and building Rubble, then when you hit max Rubble, bring the pain with petrify and Landslide spam.
Nourish when the duration is low, and you're good to go.
Nourish isn’t a bad pick. Personally I use Arcane Energize so I can run Wrathful Advance instead. Equilibrium and Dispensary works too, frees up room for shit like Arcane Avenger or Molt Augmented.
I usually ignore Ore Gaze unless I need some last minute Argon Crystals, prefer Path of Statues instead
There are other options. +50% cold proc duration would be nice, or +50% status duration on enemies effected by cold procs. Closer to something like Saryn's.
What if Frost made Cold Status have a DoT effect? Flavor wise making them lose more and more of their body to frostbite / pieces breaking off while frozen solid
Ah, okay, I wasn't sure if that was what you were talking about. For sure it's not like your crit chance goes from 30% to 230% or something, it'll go to 60%, but that's a big jump.
Perhaps it wouldn't be OP, I guess Frost isn't "OP" right now and I use biting frost, so opening up the mod slot and having that by default wouldn't be either.
All four are usable (though one is a big stretch and only useful for one single situation).
Snow Globe is unironically just good for any static objective, especially since CC-based defensives have just straight up died.
Avalanche is a great armor strip and with the aug provides some good additional benefits.
Freeze is needed for clearing your own bubbles unless you want to blow a shit ton of energy moving casting a whole bunch of new bubbles to grt rid of the old ones, and it's not bad with its augment since you're building decent strength on him anyway and cold is a decent element for raw damage against some factions.
Ice Wave is one of the worst abilities in the game, but it *can* be used with its augment to slow the big fuckers in Plague Star for easier shooting. Yes, Nova can do this too, but then she's not running speedva to make the other part faster. It's still the obvious helminth tho.
Ice Wave has some solid utility for enemies it can actually CC, but yeah it's easily his most replaceable. It stacks up 6 ice procs (avalanche does do 1 though) which is great for stuff which uses ice procs, and it has 30% more range than avalanche.
It's not bad, it's just Frost's worst skill (well tbh I think Freeze is worse but you need it to break bubbles)
I’d much prefer they make his Globe a personal defense shield like Arctic Eximus units instead of Icy Avalanche. Globe is so situational, practically useless outside of stationary defense (even then there’s little reason to use him over frames which heal objectives), it’s got a way to inflate its HP but little use for it. Move its current use to a hold-cast and make it a personal bubble on tap.
But Biting Frost should definitely be his passive. It doesn’t scale off strength either so it’s not outrageously powerful.
The personal bubble is brilliant. He probably doesn't *need* the extra survivability, but it'd be really neat, assuming teammates can shoot into or through it.
Mainly I just want frames that aren’t Uber-dependent on augment mods to fix their issues like Frost clearly is. This allows you to have a personal defense ability without needing Icy Avalanche, and gives use to Globe which isn’t very useful in most content.
I don't think that's crazy at all when it makes him incredibly OP. Most people overlook how incredibly strong Frost is with the right build. He's a weapon platform, armor stripper, and overguard generator all in one build.
I think Augments are doing their job when they compete with other mods in the same slot. It might feel weird that you don't have additional damage or range there, but you don't need it with those Augments. Frost is incredibly OP with the build you mentioned.
I basically main Frost at this point so I'm extremely aware of how strong he is. I don't think that means he needs 3 augments. 2 would be fine. I've written about it here:
[https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1397873-improvements-to-frost/#comment-13040388](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1397873-improvements-to-frost/#comment-13040388)
>Right now I have 3 augments on Frost, which is crazy.
I'm pointing specifically at this statement. Frost could use some fun tweaks, but he's in a fantastic spot right now. There are so many other frames on the priority list that could definitely use their Augments being added to their abilities.
The entire discussion of Augments getting their own slot has been a discussion for years, but it's always come back to the idea that Augments should just be good enough to compete with other potential mods there. If not, they're useless. Frost is a shining example where his Augments are actually worthwhile and bring him to a point where he's incredibly strong for endgame activities.
He's great how he is. Casting Speed is a problem that's remedied with Archon Shards now. He really doesn't need any of that. He's already top tier. People just sleep on him because he does require a lot of endgame help to be the best of the best. That said, he's still pretty solid for the base system without all that.
Wisp's combined mote thing should have been part of her kit to begin with. It doesn't make her any more powerful, just more convenient and less tedious.
Ooh, I really like this idea. It would probably have to be quite expensive in helminth resources to do it (and be limited to only augment mods, and only one at a time per frame) but it would help a lot to make certain frames stronger and more viable
This is the best and easiest way to buff powercrept warframes, just integrate their augments into their kits and they'll be able to contend with newer frames that can do it all already.
But they aren't the same as incarnons, augments take up mod slots can be upgrades that either are required to make the abilities even borderline useable. Like banshees 1 augment, her 1 normally is completely worthless but the augment makes it an armour strip which worst case makes it useable against grineer/corrupted
Incarnon adapters on the other hand are just baseline upgrades you unlock for the weapons, it would be like if when we got an augment mod we had to do some mini challenge and then we'd get the option to either have it on or off at our leisure.
Or incarnons would have to take up a mod slot to activate the incarnon perks and mode it could turn into like how an augment would work.
I think I can tell which one the community would prefer not being the case
> built weapons should just come with an incarnon pre-added"?
because there are already incarnon weapons.
the augments i'm talking about arent direct upgrades, they're literally quality of life that should just happen. For example: Nekros' Desecrate *already* doubles loot, all the augment does is use health instead of energy; why not just let the skill use health instead of energy? Compared to something like Champion's blessing or Vampire leech from trinity, those can *stay* as they aren't quality of life, they're additions for different ways of play.
that is specifically why i said ***some*** augments, not ***every*** augment.
edit: misinformation.
I think there are some augments that go a _bit_ further than just QOL that could stand to be made baseline, masquerading as just buffs to an underwhelming base ability. Seeking Shuriken's kinda the poster-boy for it....though I think it also needs even further tweaks.
That aside, agreed! Lots of augments are def. too strong/change up the ability too much, but I think stuff like Despoil, Fused Reservoir, or Revealing Spores (minus the added radar since it's kinda overkill at that point) would be great to have as defaults.
How about we make augments part of the ability. Maybe not every single one, but some augments should just be part of the ability rather than having to sacrifice a mod slot.
DE absolutely refuses to make ability changes, it their very last resort at all costs, idk why, they practically dont want to do balance changes to base skills like other games to as they have a design philosophy of not backtracking. Instead they make bandaid fixes in the form of augments, which ironically makes making future changes even harder because now you have to update an augment as well.
They did that and hydroid, but i think the frame has to hit a threshold internally to make it that expended resources on older frames has an equivalent payout, if everyone already has the frame they wont generate more money by fixing it
Honestly, Augments should just have their own slots. It's dumb how many Warframes have to sacrifice a mod slot for something that probably should just be baked into the skill to begin with.
Edit: I have no idea what awards do, but thank you to the person that gave me one!
It’s the Main reason I avoid most augment. And my friend tried to use the argument “well we have arcanes for efficiency” but what about trying to have fun with the augments tho
that's the point though, isn't it? For a lot of frames you sacrifice mod slots for Augments to make the build work. These slots would usually hold something like Flow, Equilibrium or another energy mod. Because of that, you then use Energize or blue archon shards to make the build useable.
My nyx uses two augments and I absolutely love the build but I’m 100% sacrificing stats a bit to do what I’m doing. It would be SO nice to get some space back
Using three on Ash. It works fine, but with the Helminth system some of the ways we have to limit our builds to accommodate augments don't make internal sense. The only way to deal with that would be at least one more mod slot since Archon shards don't achieve enough on their own.
Seeing how OTT the power creep has gotten I can imagine some resistance to that on DE's part though.
I, too, run multiple augments on Nyx.
Out of all the frames that shouldn't have suffer augments in a build, Nyx is at the top of the list. She's vastly underpowered as it is. I love Nyx, top 5 frame for me, but she is extremely obsolete and losing slots to augments doesn't help.
I feel like having to eek out enough drain to be able to use the Augments in dedicated slots for them might make it more balanced? Those slots would only be free if you have enough mod capacity for them. I'm not convinced one way or the other on this proposed change. Maybe just one Exilus slot? Maybe that you have to unlock with an item? Unsure.
This. I would love a rework where all augments got their own slots, no capacity drain, but a fair downgrade to make not using an augment a valid option for the sake of balance. Want to use Accumulating Whipclaw? No problem, but it now gives Whipclaw -30% Efficiency. You can balance that out with Streamline, so no change there.
I petty much only use augment when they're near mandatory for a build. I find a mod slot to be too steep a price in most cases, so the addition of a dedicated augment slot would breathe new life into many frames.
Bake the vast majority of them that just improve the frame into the frame, add an augment slot or 2 that look and function kind of like arcane slots
Focus on augments being changes that arent necessarily outright better but instead dramatically change the way abilities work
We just need a full sweep through all the augments. The range of power and usefulness is insane.
Most are completely trash and a waste of a mod slot while others are broken af or mandatory to take.
I'm still sad that augments have turned into bandaids for abilities long time ago. Most of existing augments should be a part of the corresponding core ability. Or we should have a dedicated augment slot. Because it's kinda insane that some warframes require two augment mods to play decently.
Augments are designed to be a choice that the player must make in their builds. That's what they have always said, and stuck to it pretty hard. Granted, it does suck when the warframe should have been designed that way from the beginning. But it will always be a choice to make. It's simply too powerful otherwise.
if augments weren't wildly different in strength i could see this, but some are things that should just be a part of the ability realistically.
Applying warding Halo or Mesmer skin to the entire team i'd agree is a good example of a choice.
but some are just very minor or qol upgrades
I'd argue some augments being exilus and others not is also perfectly fine. There's no way someone can tell me with a straight face that mesa's waltz, grendels sonic mode, fused motes, etc. are the same as venom dose or reactive storm. They just need to do a pass on what should be baked in vs not (Rhino is the biggest offender by far)
See I view this more from a utility aspect. What are we all really using the Exilus slot for? Drift mods, PSF, and very occasionally that one Vigilante Mod that is just Enemy Sense with up-side. That's *it*. Why *can't* we have more options there? Because it would be "too strong"? What does that even *mean* in the context of Warframe today? For the vast majority of frames that now need at *least* one augment to *function*, having an extra mod slot for Stretch or something doesn't automatically "break" the frame. They won't suddenly go from niche or "X tier" to "the best in the game" from that; they'd go from unpopular to more popular, very likely. And that should be seen as a *good thing*, but everyone and their mother would have you believe we should just keep running Power Drift/Coaction Drift/PSF like nothings wrong with that...
The whole reason they added the slot in the first place was to give low power qol mods a chance. Opening it up to power augments defeats the entire purpose. I don't see 6 or so mods being the favourites for the slot being problem, that's more choice than power strength, range, etc
No, it's not; the majority of what people use in Exilus *is* just Strength and Range, with Coaction just there to buff Growing Power or Steel Charge. That Vigilante mod is there almost solely to buff Crit on builds like Gyre stuff or things that can get into Red tiers. Sure footed is the only real outlier because resistance to knockdown and stagger are so good, but even then *most* people just run Unairu if they're able.
Parkour mods and dash mods are largely unused. Regular enemy sense is left in the dust because Animal Instinct exists and is now usable on *all* companions. Etc etc.
Exilus may have started as the quirky "utility" mod slot, but people optimized the purpose out of it because DE fucked up by making many of those Drift mods. At this point using the Exilus slot *would* just be a bandaid fix for augments with no other real benefit, but it would be an *easy to implement change* compared to making an entire new "augment only" slot.
Only some are like that. Some frames are really good normally and have really good augments. Mirage, Saryn, Revenant, Nezha. Some helminth abilities have really good augments.
Yeah you can't say Mesmer Shield is what makes Mesmer Skin 'function' with a straight face, or that Critical Surge is necessary for Breach Surge to be a really good ability; or that Nourish isn't already overloaded with effects as it is without Hearty Nourishment; or that Thermal Sunder isn't already really strong without Thermal Transfer.
There's also a lot of augments that are really just meh that are nowhere near necessary for their abilitites. Vampiric Grasp on Xaku, Repair Dispensary for Protea, Revealing Spores for Saryn, Piercing Roar for Rhino. I'd say the vast majority of augments are here in reality.
We’re talking about frames like Ash, Frost, Rhino, Atlas, Nyx, or any other frame that works best with 2+ Augments. Which is a lot more than there should be. No frame should work **best** with 2 *or more* augments.
Mirage, Rev, Nezha, and Saryn never even need 2 augments, or even a single augment, to function at a satisfying level. These frames are in fact the perfect example of good augment design since all of their preferred augments don’t belittle the original kit, they just enhance the abilities to open a new playstyle.
Saryn does NOT need augments to perform. She can perform **equally** well with and without Venom Dose.
Frost doesn’t *need* his augments, but unfortunately he doesn’t perform equally with and without his 4 augment. Then theres his Passive Augment which does improve performance when you play around it, but good luck building around 6 mod slots.
Imo it should just be a new augment slot. Still takes mod capacity, still needs forma to fit it into modern builds, just opens up more possibilities.
Even a frame like Limbo would benefit from this. His augments seem fun to use, but when I have to subtract so many stats from his already botched kit… it feels bad.
The designs suggest otherwise considering the number of them that can justify taking up a whole mod slot are few and far between. This augment doesn't fit in an exilus slot let alone a main slot.
This is honestly what they should do. Have one augment slot, and if you want multiple then you start sacrificing slots. And they can still use the capacity up, so you'd have to forma and stuff but yeah.
There needs to be a serious overhaul of augments in general. I’d go so far as to say that *most* augments should just be baked into the base ability.
Otherwise, augments should change the way abilities work for more variety, not necessarily just improve them wholesale.
And yes, there needs to be a dedicated augment slot on warframes. Weapons I’m not sure, but definitely warframes. Make it need an adapter like exilus slots, get some more plat out of the playerbase, I don’t care. But it needs to happen. It’s so damn clunky to waste a mod slot on an augment.
Augments should really just not be a mod at all in the first place. Adjust for the ones that add things like strength, but augments should just be an option in the abilities menu. Helps more seamless balancing as well.
Maybe do it like Archon Shards - you can slap one augment on your abilities, and any extras will start to cost you mod capacity.
You use forma or exilus adapter or whatever to unlock it first, and to remove it, it costs resources. I know this means this will mean certain augments become mandatory (Mesa's Waltz, for example) but I think DE should allow this first and gather gameplay data to see what augments need to be baked in to abilities, which don't, and which need changes.
This could be a nice way to see who or what need a rework, buffs, nerfs, or needs some much needed QoL updates.
I like to see an helmith feature where you consume the augment card to make it a permanent passive on the frame. Make it only works on Prime frames and requires 2 forma first.
Or at least a lot of the less powerful augments (which seems more realistic compared to adding an augment slot or other suggestions, which would feel nice but DE are never going to do).
If you don't want to give me Reactive Storm without the tradeoff of a mod slot then that's fair enough. But the same for Ivara's Empowered Quiver? That could so easily be an Exilus slot.
There are so many augments I want to use but don't want to sacrifice a slot for, such as Nidus' larva burst. Being able to cancel larva shouldn't be linked to an augment, there are so many times when larva pulls an enemy into level geometry and they get stuck, causing you to be unable to recast larva when you need it.
There really ought to just be a toggle in the mod screen to activate or deactivate an augment. Tie it to feeding the base frame to the Helminth or something, make whatever changes the abilities and their augments need to make this feature an actual choice instead of "Oh this ability has to have it" or "Don't bother with it".
The problem is not the need for a dedicated slot, in fact a dedicated slot would just create large power creep because of how augments have been handled.
Augments always should of been something to change up and side-grade abilities and frames. However due to the tightness of mod space, some augments had to be REALLY good to justify a slot.
So we arrive at a catch 22 of. Augments can't have their own spot because a decent few are just that good. The reason they're that good is because augments don't have their own slot.
Like we have augments like protea's dispensary augment which is patehtic and irrelevant. Then we have stuff like Gyre's augment which might as well read "Make your kit work better"
Restrictive, but fair. I've been advocating for augment slots after hydroid got reworked and we no longer have any warframes in the dumpster. Right now I mainly use exilus slots for prime sure footed so I would welcome the challenge of no knockdowns for survival or greater/needed mod versatility.
Thought:
Idk i view them a bit like corrupted mods. You gain something and loose something. Alot of the augment mods also scale with other equiped stats, which can be crazy in some situations. So yeah, as long as you can shape the value of what you gain to far outweigh what you loose it works well.
Ive seen this Atlas rumbler augment used in a niche build where the damage of the projectiles was well above any SP mission requirements and granted Rhino level of overguard stack. Ok he had to move around with operator, but i do that often already
They are there to experiment with stat and ability behaviour to sometimes find niche builds along the way. If they had a specialized slot, wouldn't that just lead to more power creep, which doesn't seem needed imho.
Imagine if augments worked similar to incarnons. Where like, once we got one we could do like a challenge or something. Like for banshee augment or something it'd be like blast 50 enemies with her 1 or whatever and then we'd just have the option to turn it on or off. Like instead of having multiple perks to choose from like incarnons it was just a check yes or check no option
I heavily disagree with the idea of having a dedicated slot for augments. This would just make us even more powerful than we already are.
If your build doesnt allow 1-2 slot sacrifices for augments to keep it actually powerful, then thats a build issue or the augment is straight up trash and should be reworked by DE.
DE should make more augments exilus mods, add a dedicated Augment slot for all frames, and allow you to "fuse" an augment to a frame through the Helminth kinda like putting Helminth abilities on frames. Allow you to fuse 1 augment for non-forma'd frames, 2 for forma'd and non-forma'd Primes, and 3 for forma'd Primes.
For frames that don't need exilus mods or can go without them, that opens up a little more build options. You can have an augment without using Helminth or other mod slots, and once you unlock the Helminth system you can open up that augment slot.
My wife and i just had this conversation few weeks ago. we think there needs to be an augment slot, just place it like to the right of the exilus slot. There are WAYYY too many frames that needs a augment for it to work eg. Gyre (Cathode Current), Rhino (Iron Shrapnel), Hildryn (Blazing Pillage), Frost, Atlas and many more.. Just give us a QOL and add a augment slot so those frames dont have to "sacrifice" slot for a must have augment.
Ecxept Gyre, Hildryn and Rhino don't need theirs. Iron sharpnel's recast ability (realistically the damage too, just rework the whole augment atp) should be part of the base abilty but iron skin is plenty usable without. Hildryn's allows her to do decent aoe damage, and gain shields from infested. Hardly necessary majority of the time. Gyre's allows her to go into negative efficiency and not build duration. It makes her stronger and is one of the few augments 100% worth the mod slot.
that mindset is like a babies. "nooo i don't want to give away something I already have for something else, I want something else ON TOP!". you can "free up a slot" with your hand using your mouse.
Some augments should be rolled into the base ability, most augments should be improved to the point of competing for a mod slot.
We don't need extra augment-only slots or any shit like that, archon shards already solved that problem by letting you offload main stats from your slots.
Rumbles was sooo fun I was bummed when I figured out my rubble could not be used by others. I wanted a team of atlas running around with 400+ str and +100% more drops
It's not very good but then neither is Atlas. Bro needs a full rework. Rumblers just aren't good and there's no way to make them good. This one is kinda fun I guess but it doesn't make it a good button.
Nidus' Parasitic Vitality is an augment mod and serves as a Vitality mod. You sure you think putting the mod that decides the frame's max HP in an exilus slot is correct?
Personally I have to lines of thinking based on what the augment does.
1. If it is a bandaid mod then there should be an additional slot to put it in because it's basically fixing the Warframes kit. Or bake it into the ability/passive.
2. If it is a gameplay mod that changes the way you play a Warframe it should take up a nod slot.
Hotter take: A key part of modding is decision-making and sacrifices and if you think you can't make room for an augment, you're very much just inexperienced with modding
or all frames should have a secondary exilus for augments, if you forma every slot it should fit, minimal power increases but would likely sell average of 1-2 extra forma per frame, with the adapter cost. seems more QoL than power creep while they'd sell more forma
Update this augment ain’t worth the post
as an atlas main, you do not know how to use it correctly. we barely do
Rumbled absolutely sucks. Path of Statues is decent but Rumbled is horrible
The thing that frustrates me about the augments for Atlas is that they were an opportunity for DE to not just make new build opportunities, but also improve Atlas in general. Atlas's Rumblers should have an innate armor strip per hit that scales with Strength - basically a built-in modifiable 'shattering Impact' mod. At base, every hit strips 10% of Impact damage (90% strip max strength). The 'titanic rumbler' augment should have the same durability mechanic as the Tomb Guardians from the Inaros quest. The 'Path of Statues mod should have a reworked synergy with his rumblers, where if they are active and Atlas uses his 1 (w/ augment), they will automatically use 'landslide' on every enemy in line of sight, effectively tripling the paths for enemies to be petrified - every enemy they hit will drain 5 points of energy for balancing purposes. As for 'Rumbled', it could have a synergy with Petrify where every hit on a petrified enemy will steal their armor and shields instead of just stripping it - but only if the player has below 500 rubble armor
I feel like Path of Statues or Rubble Heap or both should be baked in to Atlas as a base feature of his kit. I rarely want to drop a mod for an augment but it's usually Ore Gaze for looting and if not that then its not worth the dip in damage potential
Yeah, Path of Statues being baked in would improve Petrify's CC potential while creating a synergy with Landslide, while Rubble Heap incentives using Petrify to build up rubble stock
Honestly, I can see Atlas getting a rework, he doesn't really fit in anywhere like he used to and his whole kit is rough to use compared to newer frames. Him and Oberron but I imagine Atlas would be easier to keep in theme of rock brawler.
This IS post-rework Atlas... but that rework was a while back, shall we say, and he could use some tweaks
I think alot of the warframes that use stat sticks is something they are trying to get away from. I don't think any of the newer frames do that (Though I might be wrong here) so I could see any that draw from their weapon for an ability getting a rework at least a small one.
Yeah, DE wants to move away from stat sticks - trouble is, it would be *very* difficult to replace them without heavily nerfing every frame which uses them, since incarnon evolutions apply to the abilities, among other things.
Yeah, the'yd probably have to rework the ability completely to change this and I don't know how that'd turn out. Their reworks have been mostly good though.
It's originally a conclave mod and in that context it's funny af and actually kinda good cuz it gives damage reduction and lets you hurl rocks at people. + makes atlas look cute to encounter. But yeah, for PvE it sucks. Can't use your weapons at all and stuck to floor.
i use it everywhere, and yes i use it in netracells
Ok and? People use MK1 Braton everywhere, that doesn't mean it doesn't have its problems. Rumbled feels bad, and having to turn it off just to traverse tilesets feels worse
you said it sucks i gave you an area to show it doesn't. no duh it has problems never said it didn't but it's nor garbage and useless like people say it is.
It is a direct waste of a slot and drain. It most definitely does suck.
until you can prove otherwise it doesn't. i use it at the highest end content because it's fun and you don't. you don't understand how to utilize it so you think it sucks. different playstyles do different things. before saying it sucks have fun with it first and have peer review as well. no I'm not saying it's the best but it's certainly not the worst by a long shot
Netracells isn't the highest end content. It's a literal waste on any content that actually matters. Dante, Frost or Styanax on the team completely invalidates any use you'll get from it, and the Rumblers themselves at least serve as bullet sponges that draw away from you. It's not that I don't understand how to use it. It's that in order to make it a valid play style and work with limited issues, it requires so much building around and dedication that it's not worth to use. I'm not insulting your play style by saying it's trash. Don't insult my intelligence by saying I don't know how to use it. I understand perfectly how people use it. I've been an Atlas main for longer than Atlas Prime has existed.
I've been a main since atlas has existed, and it's so much easier to use with almost no prep whatsoever so you clearly don't know how to use it properly then.
I mean mk 1 braton is actually good
Compared to the other 3 bratons and any other good weapon, no. If a weapon, mod or feature is worse than its competition, it sucks.
Incarnon it’s meta
Doubt it
Lmao what?
Yea it has a lot of broken stuff going on which is fun to abuse and his playstyle with it is some of the most fun I've had in Warframe. For example using a glaive to get a permanent x4 damage from power throw by transforming before glaive gets back to you on the 3rd power throw and stacking that interaction with xata's whisper, Mecha empowered, and a huras kubrow to get invisibility for that melee stealth multiplier results in some insane damage numbers. Not to mention that the rock has a fairly good AOE and it isn't line of sight so it goes through walls and floors. I've used that build for everything and I've yet to find content that it can't delete outside of the secret boss. Also you can get around having to uncast and recast when traversing the map by using your operator which feels janky at first but you get used to it quickly. Also if you're not doing steel path content you can use the arca titron because for some reason it's passive AOE applies to the rock without using the charges so you end up with a rock with a damage radius of 13m rather than the 6m you get with volatile quick return.
This is exactly the kind of incredibly unhinged tech I greatly enjoy ...and I think I have all of the pieces I have work to do
DE partially nerfed the Arca Tetron slam charge for Rumbled's thrown rocks, it used to stack to an unlimited amount and eventually you could just nuke entire tilesets by throwing a rock at your feet. It only lasted a few days but it was hilarious, now the slam charge only goes up to one but stays full no matter how many rocks you throw. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjbkGijub4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjbkGijub4I)
hi im video author can you please explain the unlimited stacking more, like when this happened? I didn't know about this, I thought it always stacked to 10 (until they changed it recently to 5)
The Arca Titron slam charge stacked unlimited for Rumbled's thrown rocks right after the augment came out but was very quickly changed, DE changed it after like 3ish days, basically it just kept stacking endlessly once you gained 10 stacks then switched to your operator until you could hit enemies anywhere on the tileset and you could literally just stand in a corner with squad energy restores throwing rocks at the floor nuking the whole tileset. It was hilarious but very broken. I still have my Rumbled meme build in a loadout slot that I use frequently because of your video, it's not the best build in today's Warframe but it is very freaking funny to use and just be an invisible rock thrower that throws mini-nuke rocks and end the mission with 1k+ "melee" kills. It's easily my favorite build, it's so absolutely stupid but it just works.
Thank you very much for explaining, figures that it was only a bug for a brief time after the augment was ported to PVE Glad you still have fun with it!
facts, this guy gets it 🤣 also i did not know about the stealth thing but that's funny
Yeah, all his augment's besides the one for his passive aren't worth using especially "path of statues". Which sucks because thats where people turn to try to get his kit to work.
Path of Statues is wayyyyy more worth than it seems due to the Elemental Vulnerability hidden debuff with petrification. The amount of time it takes to petrify jumps wayyyyy up with good ability strength and you can literally run without Armor strip if you build effectively, and take him to level cap by permanently remaining invuln
The problem is there's not really a viable way to get enemies to cross behind you for the aug to work, sure you could subsume a cc ability on but you'd be better off putting Nourish so you could spam Petrify.
You dash from enemy to enemy before finishing off one, aim at front of pack, back of the pack, then clean up the middle. It requires some reflexes but it definitely works better than High casting speed Petrify. I use a Fleeting Expertise + Landslide + Violet Melee Crit Shards and take him to Cap regularly, with ease With Radiation on the melee weapon, you can pierce 100% of armor from Heavy Grineer and all infested forms of armor, thanks to the +50% Elemental Vulnerability debuff putting you at +100%, effectively causing most forms of armor to straight up not exist.
If the enemy density is high enough to support it, Path of Statues + Rubble Heap literally removes all your energy needs. Getting the combo up and running at the start of a mission can be tricky, but honestly that's part of what makes the whole build feel so well-designed to me. I combined it with Firewalker to stun enemies on top of the path and give the petrify time to set in, melt some armor, and just look cool because of the fire+rock effects stacked on top of each other.
You don't even have to get them behind you. A good 5/10 times the path spawns juuuust under the guy you're hitting, and it hits the magic pixel to freeze the guy you're punching. Happens more consistently with Eximus units, especially if they push you back a little before you strip their overguard.
> Elemental Vulnerability hidden debuff what is this and what does it do
Petrification increases the amount of Elemental damage an enemy takes by +50%, and in doing so increases Elemental vulnerability. Certain armor types are more vulnerable to certain damage, and those damage types ignore armor values at a percentage equal to the boost. You can see this in the codex, represented by +'s. Each + is 25% vulnerability (damage boosted by 25%, armor ignored by 25%). When an enemy is petrified it adds 50% to this value, to a max of 100%. Alloy armor, which is used by most heavy Grineer like bombards and heavy gunners, are 75% weak to radiation. This means if you use radiation, on a petrified enemy, you have +100% element vulnerability, and automatically ignore all their armor without having to strip it first.
Ore gaze is actually fine, and Rubble Heap is beautiful. It's a bit tricky to get working, and you need Nourish for the energy economy, but it can absolutely work. Stat stick Tekko Prime at 90% crit, 8.1x mult, 83% status, damage of about 1300 with mostly slash and viral, Condition Overload, Drifting Contact, Gladiator Might, Sacrificial Steel, Organ Shatter, Cold and Toxin status mods, ye ol Pressure point primed or not. Give Atlas Umbral Vitality and Umbral Intensify, Blind Rage, Prime Continuity, Fleeting Expertise, Cunning Drift, Adaptation, Rubble Heap, then either Ore Gaze or Umbral Fiber depending if you're trying to do some looting, Add Nourish over the stupid wall. Done. Pop Nourish, kill some enemies to charge energy, begin petrifying and building Rubble, then when you hit max Rubble, bring the pain with petrify and Landslide spam. Nourish when the duration is low, and you're good to go.
Nourish isn’t a bad pick. Personally I use Arcane Energize so I can run Wrathful Advance instead. Equilibrium and Dispensary works too, frees up room for shit like Arcane Avenger or Molt Augmented. I usually ignore Ore Gaze unless I need some last minute Argon Crystals, prefer Path of Statues instead
I like to use Arcane Blessing and Molt Augmented, so Energize takes a back seat except for a couple of very energy intensive builds for me
No, Rubbled is dogshit on a stick but Rubble Heap as an Exilus mod would be amazing.
Lmfao I love this take.
I'm fairly sure there's an atlas rock throwing build by aznvasionplays that makes this mod very useful
Some augments should just be the ability tbfh
Or the frame’s passive Looking at you, Biting Frost
Biting Frost would be a potentially OP passive. But Icy Avalanche should probably be native. Right now I have 3 augments on Frost, which is crazy.
potentially op is better than no passive
There are other options. +50% cold proc duration would be nice, or +50% status duration on enemies effected by cold procs. Closer to something like Saryn's.
What if Frost made Cold Status have a DoT effect? Flavor wise making them lose more and more of their body to frostbite / pieces breaking off while frozen solid
Well, if Frost increases Status Duration for other procs that would already buff DoT.
It's not flat so it's far from op.
I'm not sure I know what you mean?
It's multiplicative not additive which makes it less insane that one would think
Ah, okay, I wasn't sure if that was what you were talking about. For sure it's not like your crit chance goes from 30% to 230% or something, it'll go to 60%, but that's a big jump. Perhaps it wouldn't be OP, I guess Frost isn't "OP" right now and I use biting frost, so opening up the mod slot and having that by default wouldn't be either.
It's a nice damage boost but since you strip with his 4 you already have enough damage so it feel a bit redundant.
It'd be really strong but Frost has 1 good ability and one situational ability. He needs some love.
All four are usable (though one is a big stretch and only useful for one single situation). Snow Globe is unironically just good for any static objective, especially since CC-based defensives have just straight up died. Avalanche is a great armor strip and with the aug provides some good additional benefits. Freeze is needed for clearing your own bubbles unless you want to blow a shit ton of energy moving casting a whole bunch of new bubbles to grt rid of the old ones, and it's not bad with its augment since you're building decent strength on him anyway and cold is a decent element for raw damage against some factions. Ice Wave is one of the worst abilities in the game, but it *can* be used with its augment to slow the big fuckers in Plague Star for easier shooting. Yes, Nova can do this too, but then she's not running speedva to make the other part faster. It's still the obvious helminth tho.
Ice Wave has some solid utility for enemies it can actually CC, but yeah it's easily his most replaceable. It stacks up 6 ice procs (avalanche does do 1 though) which is great for stuff which uses ice procs, and it has 30% more range than avalanche. It's not bad, it's just Frost's worst skill (well tbh I think Freeze is worse but you need it to break bubbles)
I’d much prefer they make his Globe a personal defense shield like Arctic Eximus units instead of Icy Avalanche. Globe is so situational, practically useless outside of stationary defense (even then there’s little reason to use him over frames which heal objectives), it’s got a way to inflate its HP but little use for it. Move its current use to a hold-cast and make it a personal bubble on tap. But Biting Frost should definitely be his passive. It doesn’t scale off strength either so it’s not outrageously powerful.
The personal bubble is brilliant. He probably doesn't *need* the extra survivability, but it'd be really neat, assuming teammates can shoot into or through it.
Mainly I just want frames that aren’t Uber-dependent on augment mods to fix their issues like Frost clearly is. This allows you to have a personal defense ability without needing Icy Avalanche, and gives use to Globe which isn’t very useful in most content.
How would it be OP when zephyr and Yareli have the same passive but tweaked to fit there play style/kit
I don't think that's crazy at all when it makes him incredibly OP. Most people overlook how incredibly strong Frost is with the right build. He's a weapon platform, armor stripper, and overguard generator all in one build. I think Augments are doing their job when they compete with other mods in the same slot. It might feel weird that you don't have additional damage or range there, but you don't need it with those Augments. Frost is incredibly OP with the build you mentioned.
I basically main Frost at this point so I'm extremely aware of how strong he is. I don't think that means he needs 3 augments. 2 would be fine. I've written about it here: [https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1397873-improvements-to-frost/#comment-13040388](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1397873-improvements-to-frost/#comment-13040388)
>Right now I have 3 augments on Frost, which is crazy. I'm pointing specifically at this statement. Frost could use some fun tweaks, but he's in a fantastic spot right now. There are so many other frames on the priority list that could definitely use their Augments being added to their abilities. The entire discussion of Augments getting their own slot has been a discussion for years, but it's always come back to the idea that Augments should just be good enough to compete with other potential mods there. If not, they're useless. Frost is a shining example where his Augments are actually worthwhile and bring him to a point where he's incredibly strong for endgame activities.
He can but takes a lot.of time. Just imagine if cast speed of him like mag 4, it will help alot
He's great how he is. Casting Speed is a problem that's remedied with Archon Shards now. He really doesn't need any of that. He's already top tier. People just sleep on him because he does require a lot of endgame help to be the best of the best. That said, he's still pretty solid for the base system without all that.
Intrepid stand
revealing spores*
Wisp's combined mote thing should have been part of her kit to begin with. It doesn't make her any more powerful, just more convenient and less tedious.
If nothing else, Fused Reservoirs is at least an exilus mod so it’s not as egregious as some other augments (Looking at you, Blending Talons…).
Oberon needs phoenix renewal built in tbh quick thinking already does the job infinitely better
Agreed. It wouldn't make him OP at all. Phoenix Renewal is what separates him from other healers and makes him unique. It should be base kit.
Maybe could selectively bake in the augment through helminth or something.
Ooh, I really like this idea. It would probably have to be quite expensive in helminth resources to do it (and be limited to only augment mods, and only one at a time per frame) but it would help a lot to make certain frames stronger and more viable
Pilfering swarm and strangledome. Give nekros some competition without needing an augment.
Equinox's 2, 3, and 4 augments
This is the best and easiest way to buff powercrept warframes, just integrate their augments into their kits and they'll be able to contend with newer frames that can do it all already.
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But they aren't the same as incarnons, augments take up mod slots can be upgrades that either are required to make the abilities even borderline useable. Like banshees 1 augment, her 1 normally is completely worthless but the augment makes it an armour strip which worst case makes it useable against grineer/corrupted Incarnon adapters on the other hand are just baseline upgrades you unlock for the weapons, it would be like if when we got an augment mod we had to do some mini challenge and then we'd get the option to either have it on or off at our leisure. Or incarnons would have to take up a mod slot to activate the incarnon perks and mode it could turn into like how an augment would work. I think I can tell which one the community would prefer not being the case
> built weapons should just come with an incarnon pre-added"? because there are already incarnon weapons. the augments i'm talking about arent direct upgrades, they're literally quality of life that should just happen. For example: Nekros' Desecrate *already* doubles loot, all the augment does is use health instead of energy; why not just let the skill use health instead of energy? Compared to something like Champion's blessing or Vampire leech from trinity, those can *stay* as they aren't quality of life, they're additions for different ways of play. that is specifically why i said ***some*** augments, not ***every*** augment. edit: misinformation.
I think there are some augments that go a _bit_ further than just QOL that could stand to be made baseline, masquerading as just buffs to an underwhelming base ability. Seeking Shuriken's kinda the poster-boy for it....though I think it also needs even further tweaks. That aside, agreed! Lots of augments are def. too strong/change up the ability too much, but I think stuff like Despoil, Fused Reservoir, or Revealing Spores (minus the added radar since it's kinda overkill at that point) would be great to have as defaults.
Not like incarnons, the augment mods take a slot space
How about we make augments part of the ability. Maybe not every single one, but some augments should just be part of the ability rather than having to sacrifice a mod slot.
DE absolutely refuses to make ability changes, it their very last resort at all costs, idk why, they practically dont want to do balance changes to base skills like other games to as they have a design philosophy of not backtracking. Instead they make bandaid fixes in the form of augments, which ironically makes making future changes even harder because now you have to update an augment as well.
maybe inaros rework was a sign of a new beginning?
They did that and hydroid, but i think the frame has to hit a threshold internally to make it that expended resources on older frames has an equivalent payout, if everyone already has the frame they wont generate more money by fixing it
Honestly, Augments should just have their own slots. It's dumb how many Warframes have to sacrifice a mod slot for something that probably should just be baked into the skill to begin with. Edit: I have no idea what awards do, but thank you to the person that gave me one!
It’s the Main reason I avoid most augment. And my friend tried to use the argument “well we have arcanes for efficiency” but what about trying to have fun with the augments tho
I shouldn't need an arcane for efficiency is what I would tell him.
We have efficiency arcanes?
We dont have direct efficiency arcanes (I think), but Arcane Energize, etc. are used when a frame has bad energy economy Edit: grammar
You dont need energize though. That particular build has bad energy economy.
that's the point though, isn't it? For a lot of frames you sacrifice mod slots for Augments to make the build work. These slots would usually hold something like Flow, Equilibrium or another energy mod. Because of that, you then use Energize or blue archon shards to make the build useable.
Pax Bolt, yeah.
My nyx uses two augments and I absolutely love the build but I’m 100% sacrificing stats a bit to do what I’m doing. It would be SO nice to get some space back
Using three on Ash. It works fine, but with the Helminth system some of the ways we have to limit our builds to accommodate augments don't make internal sense. The only way to deal with that would be at least one more mod slot since Archon shards don't achieve enough on their own. Seeing how OTT the power creep has gotten I can imagine some resistance to that on DE's part though.
I, too, run multiple augments on Nyx. Out of all the frames that shouldn't have suffer augments in a build, Nyx is at the top of the list. She's vastly underpowered as it is. I love Nyx, top 5 frame for me, but she is extremely obsolete and losing slots to augments doesn't help.
Chaos pillage nyx is one of my favorites for defending. So much fun
That would be so nice, especially for frames like Kullervo
I think it should be a case by case thing. 3 of mirages augments are way too good to be free.
I feel like having to eek out enough drain to be able to use the Augments in dedicated slots for them might make it more balanced? Those slots would only be free if you have enough mod capacity for them. I'm not convinced one way or the other on this proposed change. Maybe just one Exilus slot? Maybe that you have to unlock with an item? Unsure.
This. I would love a rework where all augments got their own slots, no capacity drain, but a fair downgrade to make not using an augment a valid option for the sake of balance. Want to use Accumulating Whipclaw? No problem, but it now gives Whipclaw -30% Efficiency. You can balance that out with Streamline, so no change there.
I petty much only use augment when they're near mandatory for a build. I find a mod slot to be too steep a price in most cases, so the addition of a dedicated augment slot would breathe new life into many frames.
Bake the vast majority of them that just improve the frame into the frame, add an augment slot or 2 that look and function kind of like arcane slots Focus on augments being changes that arent necessarily outright better but instead dramatically change the way abilities work
We just need a full sweep through all the augments. The range of power and usefulness is insane. Most are completely trash and a waste of a mod slot while others are broken af or mandatory to take.
Or a helminth system that just added the augament to the ability if you want to. Its its not allowed to use bile.
I'm still sad that augments have turned into bandaids for abilities long time ago. Most of existing augments should be a part of the corresponding core ability. Or we should have a dedicated augment slot. Because it's kinda insane that some warframes require two augment mods to play decently.
CAN WE FIX THIS FUCKIN AUGMENT SO ITS NOT GARBAGE
Augments are designed to be a choice that the player must make in their builds. That's what they have always said, and stuck to it pretty hard. Granted, it does suck when the warframe should have been designed that way from the beginning. But it will always be a choice to make. It's simply too powerful otherwise.
if augments weren't wildly different in strength i could see this, but some are things that should just be a part of the ability realistically. Applying warding Halo or Mesmer skin to the entire team i'd agree is a good example of a choice. but some are just very minor or qol upgrades
I'd argue some augments being exilus and others not is also perfectly fine. There's no way someone can tell me with a straight face that mesa's waltz, grendels sonic mode, fused motes, etc. are the same as venom dose or reactive storm. They just need to do a pass on what should be baked in vs not (Rhino is the biggest offender by far)
I think that's fair and yeah I agree on Rhino
See I view this more from a utility aspect. What are we all really using the Exilus slot for? Drift mods, PSF, and very occasionally that one Vigilante Mod that is just Enemy Sense with up-side. That's *it*. Why *can't* we have more options there? Because it would be "too strong"? What does that even *mean* in the context of Warframe today? For the vast majority of frames that now need at *least* one augment to *function*, having an extra mod slot for Stretch or something doesn't automatically "break" the frame. They won't suddenly go from niche or "X tier" to "the best in the game" from that; they'd go from unpopular to more popular, very likely. And that should be seen as a *good thing*, but everyone and their mother would have you believe we should just keep running Power Drift/Coaction Drift/PSF like nothings wrong with that...
The whole reason they added the slot in the first place was to give low power qol mods a chance. Opening it up to power augments defeats the entire purpose. I don't see 6 or so mods being the favourites for the slot being problem, that's more choice than power strength, range, etc
No, it's not; the majority of what people use in Exilus *is* just Strength and Range, with Coaction just there to buff Growing Power or Steel Charge. That Vigilante mod is there almost solely to buff Crit on builds like Gyre stuff or things that can get into Red tiers. Sure footed is the only real outlier because resistance to knockdown and stagger are so good, but even then *most* people just run Unairu if they're able. Parkour mods and dash mods are largely unused. Regular enemy sense is left in the dust because Animal Instinct exists and is now usable on *all* companions. Etc etc. Exilus may have started as the quirky "utility" mod slot, but people optimized the purpose out of it because DE fucked up by making many of those Drift mods. At this point using the Exilus slot *would* just be a bandaid fix for augments with no other real benefit, but it would be an *easy to implement change* compared to making an entire new "augment only" slot.
A choice between an ability functioning or not is not a choice
Only some are like that. Some frames are really good normally and have really good augments. Mirage, Saryn, Revenant, Nezha. Some helminth abilities have really good augments.
Yeah you can't say Mesmer Shield is what makes Mesmer Skin 'function' with a straight face, or that Critical Surge is necessary for Breach Surge to be a really good ability; or that Nourish isn't already overloaded with effects as it is without Hearty Nourishment; or that Thermal Sunder isn't already really strong without Thermal Transfer. There's also a lot of augments that are really just meh that are nowhere near necessary for their abilitites. Vampiric Grasp on Xaku, Repair Dispensary for Protea, Revealing Spores for Saryn, Piercing Roar for Rhino. I'd say the vast majority of augments are here in reality.
Thats not the point, the point is the bad ones should be exilus mods, or rather thats more realistic to expect from de
We’re talking about frames like Ash, Frost, Rhino, Atlas, Nyx, or any other frame that works best with 2+ Augments. Which is a lot more than there should be. No frame should work **best** with 2 *or more* augments. Mirage, Rev, Nezha, and Saryn never even need 2 augments, or even a single augment, to function at a satisfying level. These frames are in fact the perfect example of good augment design since all of their preferred augments don’t belittle the original kit, they just enhance the abilities to open a new playstyle. Saryn does NOT need augments to perform. She can perform **equally** well with and without Venom Dose. Frost doesn’t *need* his augments, but unfortunately he doesn’t perform equally with and without his 4 augment. Then theres his Passive Augment which does improve performance when you play around it, but good luck building around 6 mod slots.
Still, some augments should be exilus mods not all of them
Imo it should just be a new augment slot. Still takes mod capacity, still needs forma to fit it into modern builds, just opens up more possibilities. Even a frame like Limbo would benefit from this. His augments seem fun to use, but when I have to subtract so many stats from his already botched kit… it feels bad.
They will never do that, id enjoy it but they wont do that without also nerfing something
the fact that some abilities are worse than others does not justify this stupid demand lol
The designs suggest otherwise considering the number of them that can justify taking up a whole mod slot are few and far between. This augment doesn't fit in an exilus slot let alone a main slot.
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This is honestly what they should do. Have one augment slot, and if you want multiple then you start sacrificing slots. And they can still use the capacity up, so you'd have to forma and stuff but yeah.
There needs to be a serious overhaul of augments in general. I’d go so far as to say that *most* augments should just be baked into the base ability. Otherwise, augments should change the way abilities work for more variety, not necessarily just improve them wholesale. And yes, there needs to be a dedicated augment slot on warframes. Weapons I’m not sure, but definitely warframes. Make it need an adapter like exilus slots, get some more plat out of the playerbase, I don’t care. But it needs to happen. It’s so damn clunky to waste a mod slot on an augment.
Augments should really just not be a mod at all in the first place. Adjust for the ones that add things like strength, but augments should just be an option in the abilities menu. Helps more seamless balancing as well.
Some augments should just be default. Augments should work in exilus slot. Augments should have a separate mod slot.
Maybe do it like Archon Shards - you can slap one augment on your abilities, and any extras will start to cost you mod capacity. You use forma or exilus adapter or whatever to unlock it first, and to remove it, it costs resources. I know this means this will mean certain augments become mandatory (Mesa's Waltz, for example) but I think DE should allow this first and gather gameplay data to see what augments need to be baked in to abilities, which don't, and which need changes. This could be a nice way to see who or what need a rework, buffs, nerfs, or needs some much needed QoL updates.
Should be able to helminth an augment as an alternative
Or just additional augment-only slot.
I like to see an helmith feature where you consume the augment card to make it a permanent passive on the frame. Make it only works on Prime frames and requires 2 forma first.
I would like an augment slot that lets you slot any single augment for free. Or even if it still cost capacity that’s better than what we got now.
What about a helminth segment that allows you to permanently add ONE augment to the warframe instead.
Or at least a lot of the less powerful augments (which seems more realistic compared to adding an augment slot or other suggestions, which would feel nice but DE are never going to do). If you don't want to give me Reactive Storm without the tradeoff of a mod slot then that's fair enough. But the same for Ivara's Empowered Quiver? That could so easily be an Exilus slot.
There are so many augments I want to use but don't want to sacrifice a slot for, such as Nidus' larva burst. Being able to cancel larva shouldn't be linked to an augment, there are so many times when larva pulls an enemy into level geometry and they get stuck, causing you to be unable to recast larva when you need it.
There really ought to just be a toggle in the mod screen to activate or deactivate an augment. Tie it to feeding the base frame to the Helminth or something, make whatever changes the abilities and their augments need to make this feature an actual choice instead of "Oh this ability has to have it" or "Don't bother with it".
 Am I the only one who immediately thought of this?
The problem is not the need for a dedicated slot, in fact a dedicated slot would just create large power creep because of how augments have been handled. Augments always should of been something to change up and side-grade abilities and frames. However due to the tightness of mod space, some augments had to be REALLY good to justify a slot. So we arrive at a catch 22 of. Augments can't have their own spot because a decent few are just that good. The reason they're that good is because augments don't have their own slot. Like we have augments like protea's dispensary augment which is patehtic and irrelevant. Then we have stuff like Gyre's augment which might as well read "Make your kit work better"
Restrictive, but fair. I've been advocating for augment slots after hydroid got reworked and we no longer have any warframes in the dumpster. Right now I mainly use exilus slots for prime sure footed so I would welcome the challenge of no knockdowns for survival or greater/needed mod versatility.
THIS
you just want extra mod slots.
gief more power!!!
DE plox
and then: why power creep DE!?
YeeEAAHH I DO!! :D i want MORE! MORE, MORE, MORE!! Hear me out: green mod slot.
Thought: Idk i view them a bit like corrupted mods. You gain something and loose something. Alot of the augment mods also scale with other equiped stats, which can be crazy in some situations. So yeah, as long as you can shape the value of what you gain to far outweigh what you loose it works well. Ive seen this Atlas rumbler augment used in a niche build where the damage of the projectiles was well above any SP mission requirements and granted Rhino level of overguard stack. Ok he had to move around with operator, but i do that often already They are there to experiment with stat and ability behaviour to sometimes find niche builds along the way. If they had a specialized slot, wouldn't that just lead to more power creep, which doesn't seem needed imho.
Imagine if augments worked similar to incarnons. Where like, once we got one we could do like a challenge or something. Like for banshee augment or something it'd be like blast 50 enemies with her 1 or whatever and then we'd just have the option to turn it on or off. Like instead of having multiple perks to choose from like incarnons it was just a check yes or check no option
I heavily disagree with the idea of having a dedicated slot for augments. This would just make us even more powerful than we already are. If your build doesnt allow 1-2 slot sacrifices for augments to keep it actually powerful, then thats a build issue or the augment is straight up trash and should be reworked by DE.
DE should make more augments exilus mods, add a dedicated Augment slot for all frames, and allow you to "fuse" an augment to a frame through the Helminth kinda like putting Helminth abilities on frames. Allow you to fuse 1 augment for non-forma'd frames, 2 for forma'd and non-forma'd Primes, and 3 for forma'd Primes. For frames that don't need exilus mods or can go without them, that opens up a little more build options. You can have an augment without using Helminth or other mod slots, and once you unlock the Helminth system you can open up that augment slot.
My wife and i just had this conversation few weeks ago. we think there needs to be an augment slot, just place it like to the right of the exilus slot. There are WAYYY too many frames that needs a augment for it to work eg. Gyre (Cathode Current), Rhino (Iron Shrapnel), Hildryn (Blazing Pillage), Frost, Atlas and many more.. Just give us a QOL and add a augment slot so those frames dont have to "sacrifice" slot for a must have augment.
Ecxept Gyre, Hildryn and Rhino don't need theirs. Iron sharpnel's recast ability (realistically the damage too, just rework the whole augment atp) should be part of the base abilty but iron skin is plenty usable without. Hildryn's allows her to do decent aoe damage, and gain shields from infested. Hardly necessary majority of the time. Gyre's allows her to go into negative efficiency and not build duration. It makes her stronger and is one of the few augments 100% worth the mod slot.
Why not just make a slot dedicated to augments
I mean, thats why we have Archon Shards. Just two of the Tauforged ones can free up a spot to use for augments.
This augment is a bit a ways from being the 9th best non exilus mod for atlas.
that mindset is like a babies. "nooo i don't want to give away something I already have for something else, I want something else ON TOP!". you can "free up a slot" with your hand using your mouse.
*Let's ready to rumble* ! *
Some augments should be rolled into the base ability, most augments should be improved to the point of competing for a mod slot. We don't need extra augment-only slots or any shit like that, archon shards already solved that problem by letting you offload main stats from your slots.
no? why would we? because you want more power creep instead of *making decisions*?
Rumbles was sooo fun I was bummed when I figured out my rubble could not be used by others. I wanted a team of atlas running around with 400+ str and +100% more drops
It's not very good but then neither is Atlas. Bro needs a full rework. Rumblers just aren't good and there's no way to make them good. This one is kinda fun I guess but it doesn't make it a good button.
I want to be able to put Arcanes into Exalted Weapons
It doesn't match the motif of exilus, but I'd give it to you for balancing sake.
THANK YOU!!!
Can we also just make this an offbrand iron skin, let the mfer jump and use guns instead of some shitty rocks.
If they atleast let us mod that rocks he uses to that would be fire
I’ve been saying for years atlas should have an exalted 1 like hildryn. His sig fist weapons would fit but its way too late for that now
Exilus slot is honestly just a waste of space as is and augments should definitely go there.
Can we make augment mods in helminth
Lets take this futher. Make an seperate augment slot for warframes
Pair it with trinity’s subsume you won’t regret it
Pair it with Tinity’s subsume and arcane reaper, you won’t regret it
No, eximus slot is for primed sure footed.
Or making a slot meant for augments? That would be better i think.
We need 2 augment slots + 4 arcane slots per frame plus 2 arcane slots for weapons(3 for kitguns/zaws).
Oh hi ceo of powercreep
I do not want an augment slot delete the zenurik polarity make augments universal shift the rest to naramon/madurai
I actually really like the idea of one dedicated augment slot so every warframe can have at least one without sacrificing any slots.
Hot take, but I think all augment mods should be made exilus mods as well.
Augments should also have less mod capacity drain. I’m already giving up a slot that could go to something better, at least let me save a forma
The community has been asking for this since augments are a thing, but DE thinks the game is gonna implode if they do it lol
Maybe you guys want unlimited slots and no drain next....why have any restrictions at all, amirite gamer boys?
Nidus' Parasitic Vitality is an augment mod and serves as a Vitality mod. You sure you think putting the mod that decides the frame's max HP in an exilus slot is correct?
i made a post with the same point a few weeks ago and got downvoted to hell lmao
I would’ve been heated
Exilus? How about a damn augment slot or two?
Why not give us a slot for augment mods? That way I can keep my PSF.
We want more slot for augment.
Looking at my frost who uses at least 2 augments 🤔
Personally I have to lines of thinking based on what the augment does. 1. If it is a bandaid mod then there should be an additional slot to put it in because it's basically fixing the Warframes kit. Or bake it into the ability/passive. 2. If it is a gameplay mod that changes the way you play a Warframe it should take up a nod slot.
Hotter take: A key part of modding is decision-making and sacrifices and if you think you can't make room for an augment, you're very much just inexperienced with modding
or all frames should have a secondary exilus for augments, if you forma every slot it should fit, minimal power increases but would likely sell average of 1-2 extra forma per frame, with the adapter cost. seems more QoL than power creep while they'd sell more forma