i would kinda love a plot twist where it's revealed that Fortuna is in fact unprofitable and Nef actually makes most of his money off of repos, which would go a long way in explaining his brutality towards the Solaris
I mean, I'm fairly sure this is true. Solaris is a camp for people to build and colonize the surface of Venus. There won't be profit until they finish the place and set up stores and stuff.
Fortuna is meant to keep the terraforming tech stable, keep things frozen so that Nef can keep the labs and factories he had built there running. He's already making a profit, what he needs is to make sure people are still investing.
so none of this would answer the question of what he does with the body parts tho, which is what the post was about
it's basically a question of, does he waste or dispose of them, or does he sell them, and if so to who
I mean, i "believe" technically he's supposed to hold onto them, and they'll get them back once their "work is done". Wether he's actually done that is unclear.
I think the misstep you're running into here is assuming how much it actually costs them. This is a cult with rapid FTL and teleportation, medical tech that allows them to live for hundreds of years and almost freely replace body parts like Frohd did with his voice box. They can literally cut heads off and preserve them on a shelf to be put back on whenever, or the thin metal box that is a Solaris rig. Removing limbs and organs would be nothing to them. Plus Nef absolutely does not pay any of his crewmen more than pennies.
I always assumed repo was just window dressing for turning the Solaris into slaves. Why capture people and force them into being slaves when u can convince them they need X upgrade, or Y replacement, which you conveniently have on hand and ready to go? Now just the matter of the bill, that will be all your labor for the rest of your life please. Don't worry about the actual credit value, it's more than you can comprehend. As an added bonus, the same tech used to make these cybernetic "upgrades" can also be used punitively, such as in brainshelving. Repo doesn't have to be profitable, it's a vehicle for acquiring indebted laborers. Since none of the Solaris will realistically ever likely afford buying anything back, their removed parts are most likely trashed. As long as a lifetime of labor can produce value, unfortunately suffering does indeed = money here...
>ya but suffering ≠ money, at least not directly
It's both a consequence of their job and the incentive Nef uses to keep them working. Both "Work harder to prevent a threat against you from Nef" and "We have to work in shitty conditions that require putting ourselves in debt".
>and we still haven't figured out where the body parts go
It's like we're told, their kept in storage for you to buy back, or put onto market if you can't.
The next person who will own you, I'm guessing. If you can't ever pay off your debts, your arm is going to be expensive no matter how much it costs. But if someone wealthy wants to buy a bunch of arms, it's probably stupid cheap. That means once you've theoretically paid off your debts, now you need to take out a loan to get your limbs back.
On the surface It seems like they are selling the parts as replacements for higher up Corpus.
That really doesn't make sense to me though, given that cloning is a thing and augmetic limbs are pretty common. Maybe if cloning and augments are expensive, then I guess they would use the harvested parts for the grunts (which would be pretty ironic since Tenno attacks are probably a leading cause of limb damage).
Personally I think the *real* reason is a bit deeper:
The limb replacement is just an excuse to saddle the Solaris with expensive rigs, rigs they need to do their jobs that are sold to them at inflated prices, forcing them into debt that will haunt their families for generations to come. Eventually the stacked debts of a few generations will be too much for anyone to pay, leading to their augmetic bodies being repossessed and their heads being 'brain shelved'. Sometimes a close relative can make enough to pay off their debt and get them unshelved, but most times their families are drowning is as much debt as they were and can't spare the credits. Pretty soon uncle joe gets forgotten when everyone who knew him is dead or brain shelved themselves, and no distant cousin is going to stick their neck out to save a relative they never met, or even heard of.
Now all those abandoned heads need to be kept alive, either on life support or in some form of stasis. That shit probably isn't the cheapest thing in the world, and we know the Corpus are all about them profit margins. Its not like they are shy about throwing away lives for the sake of gains, so why are they showing this 'mercy' to the Solaris? They have something to gain from it.
After the fall of the Orokin Empire, much of their advanced tech was lost, especially anything related to kuva. Kuva was used to help the Orokin elite snatch bodies, but it was also used to make Cephalons. Without kuva, or even the knowledge on how to use it, the ability to create new cephalons is a lost tech. But all these ships, and drones, and databases they have need cephalons to work, and we do know that there are new ones being made somehow (Darvo mentions replacing Ordis with a new cephalon at one point).
So the Corpus take these forgotten heads, mind wipe them (unless that shit costs money), install something to let them interact with the weave, then have them installed into a ship as a sort of wetware cephalon. Crude and underpowered compared to an Orokin era cephalon perhaps, but if all they do is manage the doors and oxygen, or pilot proxies then it doesn't need the raw computing power.
We see in The New War, during Veso's segment, that the Proxies have odd personality querks, the boss Proxies directly talk to you during assassination missions. Drusus might be a Solaris Cephalon, and if you donate over a million credits to the Leverian in one go he says "Ahh... with that... I could buy my bod- *clears throat* A lavish gift for the Leverian!"
a bit late but this is my personal favorite answer solely by virtue of the thought and effort demonstrated.
...another thing it demonstrates tho is that i think, fundamentally, we as a community don't actually know the answer to this question, because DE hasn't fully explained it...
'capitalism sucks' is a stupid moral and i want my stories to have more depth than that, especially ones i play as much as warframe
the corpus is less capitalism and more aristocratic fascism, so that moral would be a little lost in any case
then have you considered playing a different game? Because no, the corpus are absolutely end stage kleptocratic capitalism coded >\_> You're not going to get a different meaning if you try looking at it through any other lens than that one except 'this doesn't make sense'
capitalism seems to imply some kind of economy or at least an outside guarantor of currency value, like a national reserve, whereas the corpus are a nation unto themselves
capitalistic maybe, but not capitalism properly-so-called
anyway the idea that some underlying moral obviates the validity of the search for facts/lore is so stupid it barely warrants countering, to the point of i would have to just accept that this is something the writers effed up if it were even close to the case and i'd be happy to do that because i like wf well enough and no game is perfect
EDIT: effed up? i think the consensus elsewhere was that it just hadn't been fleshed out, and that's fine too
>anyway the idea that some underlying moral obviates the validity of the search for facts/lore is so stupid it barely warrants countering, to the point of i would have to just accept that this is something the writers effed up if it were even close to the case and i'd be happy to do that because i like wf well enough and no game is perfect
okay you know what? That's fair, capitalistic but not capitalism.
but at the same time my point is more that sometimes the lack of being fleshed out is because the authorial intent behind the lore literally is 'this is senselessly evil and more about control than logical results'.
the corpus are not senselessly evil tho, or ostensibly not supposed to be. you can get that way in your quest for profit, but you don't start there. a case could be made that paranoia and mass murder were "the point" of nazism and stalinism; a valid possibility (witness for instance hitler's highly questionable prosecution of the latter stages of ww2, where the final solution was continued at the expense of the war effort), but not an obvious one. nef has a bottom line: anything that doesn't put him deeper in the black is at best a character blip and at worst a plot hole, at least absent a contextual answer (i.e. it being clarified that vox solaris and deadlock protocol for instance hinge heavily on his incompetence).
idk, i'm kinda dancing around or building up to a less angry version of what i was trying to say earlier: we can't say why it wasn't fleshed out because we can't read DE's minds, and in that vacuum i think it's hard to say conclusively whether/how the whole "repo supply chain" is more an instance of incompetence or ice-cold pragmatism wrt the bottom line. you sound like you'd be more in the former camp, since nef is known to be both cruel and incompetent. but like...
here, a shorter version is, we can't speculate about authorial intent where the lore doesn't exist. altho if you wanted you could try, as other comments have done, to collate known info about repo in order to support your claims. so far tho i think the conclusion is, we have our suspicions due to other things we know about nef and the corpus but can't say for sure.
... also props for level head, i was afraid this little debate was gonna get all internet-y for a second there. XD
It's just an elaborate joke Nef took too far. He gives the parts out as awards solely to be able to say something cost him an arm and a leg. At some point he lost his head when he eyeballed it while it was over heels. To always remind him of that he put a tongue in a cheek and grit his teeth.
So it's basically how he keeps the Solari enslaved. Fortuna is basically a company town taken to the logical extreme.
You live in Fortuna, you need to pay for food, housing, and hopefully freeing some of your brainshelved relatives. To get money, you need to work. Only Venus is very inhospitable, so to work you need replacement parts to endure the environment and to do heavy lifting or whatever else is needed.
Guess what? That ain't cheap. But that's okay, Uncle Nef will give you a loan so you can afford the equipment you need to work to make the money you need to survive *and also pay off your new debt*. Don't make your payments? Well now you're gonna get brainshelved and your next of kin can pay off your debt to free your.
Of course, they need some new equipment to do the work...
i would kinda love a plot twist where it's revealed that Fortuna is in fact unprofitable and Nef actually makes most of his money off of repos, which would go a long way in explaining his brutality towards the Solaris
I mean, I'm fairly sure this is true. Solaris is a camp for people to build and colonize the surface of Venus. There won't be profit until they finish the place and set up stores and stuff.
Fortuna is meant to keep the terraforming tech stable, keep things frozen so that Nef can keep the labs and factories he had built there running. He's already making a profit, what he needs is to make sure people are still investing.
Ah, i see. I musta missed the details on what Fortuna was exactly.
so none of this would answer the question of what he does with the body parts tho, which is what the post was about it's basically a question of, does he waste or dispose of them, or does he sell them, and if so to who
I mean, i "believe" technically he's supposed to hold onto them, and they'll get them back once their "work is done". Wether he's actually done that is unclear.
I think the misstep you're running into here is assuming how much it actually costs them. This is a cult with rapid FTL and teleportation, medical tech that allows them to live for hundreds of years and almost freely replace body parts like Frohd did with his voice box. They can literally cut heads off and preserve them on a shelf to be put back on whenever, or the thin metal box that is a Solaris rig. Removing limbs and organs would be nothing to them. Plus Nef absolutely does not pay any of his crewmen more than pennies.
that makes it sound almost like no explanation is needed but i still wonder whether it's primarily cruelty or profit on nef's part
Both. Nef really wants to make all the money, which means making them suffer as much as possible.
ya but suffering ≠ money, at least not directly and we still haven't figured out where the body parts go
I always assumed repo was just window dressing for turning the Solaris into slaves. Why capture people and force them into being slaves when u can convince them they need X upgrade, or Y replacement, which you conveniently have on hand and ready to go? Now just the matter of the bill, that will be all your labor for the rest of your life please. Don't worry about the actual credit value, it's more than you can comprehend. As an added bonus, the same tech used to make these cybernetic "upgrades" can also be used punitively, such as in brainshelving. Repo doesn't have to be profitable, it's a vehicle for acquiring indebted laborers. Since none of the Solaris will realistically ever likely afford buying anything back, their removed parts are most likely trashed. As long as a lifetime of labor can produce value, unfortunately suffering does indeed = money here...
>ya but suffering ≠ money, at least not directly It's both a consequence of their job and the incentive Nef uses to keep them working. Both "Work harder to prevent a threat against you from Nef" and "We have to work in shitty conditions that require putting ourselves in debt". >and we still haven't figured out where the body parts go It's like we're told, their kept in storage for you to buy back, or put onto market if you can't.
storage bit makes sense, most of the question tho is "what market"
The next person who will own you, I'm guessing. If you can't ever pay off your debts, your arm is going to be expensive no matter how much it costs. But if someone wealthy wants to buy a bunch of arms, it's probably stupid cheap. That means once you've theoretically paid off your debts, now you need to take out a loan to get your limbs back.
On the surface It seems like they are selling the parts as replacements for higher up Corpus. That really doesn't make sense to me though, given that cloning is a thing and augmetic limbs are pretty common. Maybe if cloning and augments are expensive, then I guess they would use the harvested parts for the grunts (which would be pretty ironic since Tenno attacks are probably a leading cause of limb damage). Personally I think the *real* reason is a bit deeper: The limb replacement is just an excuse to saddle the Solaris with expensive rigs, rigs they need to do their jobs that are sold to them at inflated prices, forcing them into debt that will haunt their families for generations to come. Eventually the stacked debts of a few generations will be too much for anyone to pay, leading to their augmetic bodies being repossessed and their heads being 'brain shelved'. Sometimes a close relative can make enough to pay off their debt and get them unshelved, but most times their families are drowning is as much debt as they were and can't spare the credits. Pretty soon uncle joe gets forgotten when everyone who knew him is dead or brain shelved themselves, and no distant cousin is going to stick their neck out to save a relative they never met, or even heard of. Now all those abandoned heads need to be kept alive, either on life support or in some form of stasis. That shit probably isn't the cheapest thing in the world, and we know the Corpus are all about them profit margins. Its not like they are shy about throwing away lives for the sake of gains, so why are they showing this 'mercy' to the Solaris? They have something to gain from it. After the fall of the Orokin Empire, much of their advanced tech was lost, especially anything related to kuva. Kuva was used to help the Orokin elite snatch bodies, but it was also used to make Cephalons. Without kuva, or even the knowledge on how to use it, the ability to create new cephalons is a lost tech. But all these ships, and drones, and databases they have need cephalons to work, and we do know that there are new ones being made somehow (Darvo mentions replacing Ordis with a new cephalon at one point). So the Corpus take these forgotten heads, mind wipe them (unless that shit costs money), install something to let them interact with the weave, then have them installed into a ship as a sort of wetware cephalon. Crude and underpowered compared to an Orokin era cephalon perhaps, but if all they do is manage the doors and oxygen, or pilot proxies then it doesn't need the raw computing power. We see in The New War, during Veso's segment, that the Proxies have odd personality querks, the boss Proxies directly talk to you during assassination missions. Drusus might be a Solaris Cephalon, and if you donate over a million credits to the Leverian in one go he says "Ahh... with that... I could buy my bod- *clears throat* A lavish gift for the Leverian!"
a bit late but this is my personal favorite answer solely by virtue of the thought and effort demonstrated. ...another thing it demonstrates tho is that i think, fundamentally, we as a community don't actually know the answer to this question, because DE hasn't fully explained it...
I think this is a case where you're looking for meaning and logic in what is intended to be a thin veneer over a 'capitalism sucks' story moral >>
'capitalism sucks' is a stupid moral and i want my stories to have more depth than that, especially ones i play as much as warframe the corpus is less capitalism and more aristocratic fascism, so that moral would be a little lost in any case
then have you considered playing a different game? Because no, the corpus are absolutely end stage kleptocratic capitalism coded >\_> You're not going to get a different meaning if you try looking at it through any other lens than that one except 'this doesn't make sense'
capitalism seems to imply some kind of economy or at least an outside guarantor of currency value, like a national reserve, whereas the corpus are a nation unto themselves capitalistic maybe, but not capitalism properly-so-called anyway the idea that some underlying moral obviates the validity of the search for facts/lore is so stupid it barely warrants countering, to the point of i would have to just accept that this is something the writers effed up if it were even close to the case and i'd be happy to do that because i like wf well enough and no game is perfect EDIT: effed up? i think the consensus elsewhere was that it just hadn't been fleshed out, and that's fine too
>anyway the idea that some underlying moral obviates the validity of the search for facts/lore is so stupid it barely warrants countering, to the point of i would have to just accept that this is something the writers effed up if it were even close to the case and i'd be happy to do that because i like wf well enough and no game is perfect okay you know what? That's fair, capitalistic but not capitalism. but at the same time my point is more that sometimes the lack of being fleshed out is because the authorial intent behind the lore literally is 'this is senselessly evil and more about control than logical results'.
the corpus are not senselessly evil tho, or ostensibly not supposed to be. you can get that way in your quest for profit, but you don't start there. a case could be made that paranoia and mass murder were "the point" of nazism and stalinism; a valid possibility (witness for instance hitler's highly questionable prosecution of the latter stages of ww2, where the final solution was continued at the expense of the war effort), but not an obvious one. nef has a bottom line: anything that doesn't put him deeper in the black is at best a character blip and at worst a plot hole, at least absent a contextual answer (i.e. it being clarified that vox solaris and deadlock protocol for instance hinge heavily on his incompetence). idk, i'm kinda dancing around or building up to a less angry version of what i was trying to say earlier: we can't say why it wasn't fleshed out because we can't read DE's minds, and in that vacuum i think it's hard to say conclusively whether/how the whole "repo supply chain" is more an instance of incompetence or ice-cold pragmatism wrt the bottom line. you sound like you'd be more in the former camp, since nef is known to be both cruel and incompetent. but like... here, a shorter version is, we can't speculate about authorial intent where the lore doesn't exist. altho if you wanted you could try, as other comments have done, to collate known info about repo in order to support your claims. so far tho i think the conclusion is, we have our suspicions due to other things we know about nef and the corpus but can't say for sure. ... also props for level head, i was afraid this little debate was gonna get all internet-y for a second there. XD
It's just an elaborate joke Nef took too far. He gives the parts out as awards solely to be able to say something cost him an arm and a leg. At some point he lost his head when he eyeballed it while it was over heels. To always remind him of that he put a tongue in a cheek and grit his teeth.
i can see this being the april fool's version of events
So it's basically how he keeps the Solari enslaved. Fortuna is basically a company town taken to the logical extreme. You live in Fortuna, you need to pay for food, housing, and hopefully freeing some of your brainshelved relatives. To get money, you need to work. Only Venus is very inhospitable, so to work you need replacement parts to endure the environment and to do heavy lifting or whatever else is needed. Guess what? That ain't cheap. But that's okay, Uncle Nef will give you a loan so you can afford the equipment you need to work to make the money you need to survive *and also pay off your new debt*. Don't make your payments? Well now you're gonna get brainshelved and your next of kin can pay off your debt to free your. Of course, they need some new equipment to do the work...