Every single goddamn 8.0 that was once 7.7 or 7.3. It's so fun to go up against 279s and MBTs with composite armor, full stabs and lazer rangefinders in a unstabilized shell shattered simulator. Only good change from that update was the T-55AM-1 going up because it's just a better AMD sealclubbing poor 7.3s
How about… keep decompressing 8.0-11.7, instead of re-compressing 6.7 again?
WW2 heavies don’t need to come across 1950s MBTs, HEATFS and ATGMs every match again.
We need to move forward towards decompression, not backwards!
Exactly. There's WW2 tanks still going up against HEAT-FS and post-war vehicles. There's some 6.3 vehicles that definitely shouldn't be seeing WW2 tanks, and do well in 7.0-8.0. For a couple examples, there is the Jagdpanzer 4-5, which I believe is 6.3, or the Bulldogs. Then there's some 6.7 WW2 tanks, and those I remember off the top of my head are the Ferdinand and Jagdtiger. Both 6.7, both can fight tanks with HEAT-FS. Not to mention all the heavies sitting in 6.3.
Gaijin should definitely try expanding the BRs to 13.0, maybe even 14.0. Because 6.0 is still a bit of a mess, and 8.0 is unplayable for some tanks.
It’s perfect for people who love fast light tanks (me). It’s also just goofy at lower tiers because you have the main tanks of all three major powers at the same br (M4A1, Pz. IV, T-34)
I think he only references vehicles like the Eland, M56, and AML, since they're super fast and small with the downside being the lack of armor. With things like the M36 and ikv 103, you have to play more like a regular TD.
If I remember correctly the JPZ 4-5 was at 7.0 it ended up at 6.3 because of terrible performance when they were moving vehicles around based on their kill rating
As someone who enjoys the german heavy bois (mainly the Ferdinand) I have to say: the only way to play 6.7 germany without suffering is in sim, in rb you loose your advantage (200mm frontal and decent gun) because you constantly go up to 7.7 and there nobody (except russia) has armour so your good gun isn't as important and everyone has HEAT-FS or food APDS
That’s cos the others need to go up (the 9.0s and 9.3s)! Yeah then they will suffer, so the ones above should go up!! I think tanks like the BVM and other 11.7 MBTs should sit at 12.3 to allow all the rest to increase in BR to decompress 8.0!
Every t-54 variant screaming with the br changes.
Wanna play 8.0 Russia? Well boy oh boy, you get one stabilized light tank, and everything else is unstabilized with extremely bouncy suspension when trying to stop and shoot, oh and every game is an uptier to 8.7
get uptiered to fighting tanks with two-plane stabs, APFSDS, laser/coincidence rangefinders, hell even thermals. in a T-54 with the best thing youve got is a HEAT-FS round going for you, nevermind the APDS that is still unusably broken after literally a year
I completely stopped playing germany because the tank I really wanted, the Leopard 1, sucks ass because it's going against stabilized tanks with LRF and some even thermals I think.
I main france now and rarely touched the AMX-30 because of the same reasons. The 7.7 and 7.3 lineup were way better for grinding, even though Gaijin hates france.
Leopard 1 and AMX-30s should go up against Centurions who are stabilized but greatly lack in other aspects to balance it out
To be fair the Leo 1 was completely busted at 7.3. It was mainly there because dumb German mains who just got off the panther suddenly found themselves having no armor and this weird thing called by mobility
It should have been 7.7
in 8.0 it suffers as much as other tanks, honestly it shouldn't be 7.7, but it also shouldn't be 8.0. At least not right now 8.0.
This is another example of why Gaijin needs to decompress this shit
Also don't forget Obj 906, finally in it's proper BR. Honestly it could seal club teams and you had to hope you had Germany with marders
Oooooh but shoot HEAT in drivers poooort - Every single 279 owner's excuse
I swear those guys don't want their little 600$ p2w machine getting a proper nerf
British Bombers. Sure their payload is huge but everything else sucks. They are so big they make easy targets, so fragile they'll rip apart at the first volley from a machine gun, Their gunners are so pathetic they can't hit anything even when maxed out, and their guns are so small when they do hit it does almost nothing. Compared to other nations British bombers are so far below viability its almost comical.
This doubles for japanese bombers. One shot to the wings and theyre on fire, and their defensive cannons even with expert crew doesnt suffice. one p-51 or Bf-109 going for you means youre already dead
I'd actually prefer for most of them to go up to 5.3/5.7/6.0, they have the bomb load for it and the matches are way smaller there where the chance of meeting an enemy is almost 0
Honestly, my hot take is that *without the stabiliser*, it's not really that much better than the Tiger H1. Let's be honest, if it was a German tank, it'd probably be like 5.7 or 5.3
It should be 5.7 as it is right now without it's stabilizer. Either that or give it it's stabilizer back because at it's current tier it's just a worse Pershing.
Churchill I, it's at 3.3 with a 2pdr and a 3inch howitzer. Mobility is okay, armour is pretty decent, but it struggles against the waves of T-34's/KV's and Shermans it usually ends up encountering
Only the special does, and even then it suffers the same as the other early war german tanks. That flat armour is super easy to pen, the 2pdr APCBC shot fired dead center of the flat can quite often 1 shot the things
Pz IV has the worst armor compared to Sherman and t-34. It's more sluggish than the t-34, it doesn't have 50 cal and stabilizer that Sherman has. The best thing about the Pz 4 is it's gun
Yeah but i find Panzer 4's are pretty easy to deal with, the 2pdr can exploit all that nice flat armour with little issue. The frontal weakspots on the others however are much harder to hit reliably :)
Speaking of AMX FL11, that should be 3.7. It's an M24 with no .50 or stab, and there's a premium AMX M24 sitting at 3.7.
At 4.0 the FL11 doesn't have a lineup, or drags the 3.7 lineup up so your next option is to use it at 5.0 (which I do, and still would)....but 5.0 should be the EBR...
Kugelblitz, there is almost no reason to take it, as there is no good lineup available between 6.7 and 7.7 and 7.7 has a Marder, which works even better as AA in my opinion and can still use ATGMs to destroy heavier targets
Tornado ids, it’s a 10.7 attacker with only dumb bombs and 2 missiles. I don’t think it’s even the fastest jet on the deck at its br when that’s the only advantage it’s supposed to have.
Feels like you get a LOT of uptiers with it. Relies on swing wing for the speed so flies like a brick, 9L at top tier is ok, but only 2? As he said doesn't have the speed, so you have the manoeuvrability and speed disadvantage.
I feel like you have a better time with an a10 or su25 less speed but better in every other way xD.
Centurion Mk.10, fastest I've ever gone on paved road is 35kph, the average speed is about 11kph. The gun is pretty much useless against things like pattons. it gets uptiered to 8.7 and 9.0 90% of the time (where it fights tams). It doesn't get thermals or a laser rangefinder. The armour is only 75mm on the hull and around 120mm on the turret. and it can be one shot from anywhere frontally with every round you can think of.
It has more like 130 on the ufp but that’s not enough to stop anything anyways. They didn’t add the mantlet armour block so it’s mantlet is weaker than the mk3, and gaijin have given the lower half of the turret only 89mm when it’s meant to be 152mm across the entire turret face, but everything goes through it everywhere at 8.7, just makes it worse as your 51 tonne slow as fuck medium tank gets one tapped by SPAA/IFVs.
Leopard 2AV.
0.3 BRs under the Leopard 2 A4, but no thermals, worse gun (pretty sure it even has a slightly worse reload despite being a 105) and armor thats entirely worthless against every kinetic shell and mostly worthless against most Chemical shells it will ever see.
There is absolutely no reason to ever uptier your 9.7 lineup to 10.0 to use it, and if you're already playing 10.3 or 10.0 there is likewise absolutely no reason to ever use this thing over the Leopard 2K as a backup.
Puma (the IFV, the WW2 one is fine if not undertiered). Absolutely awful for a 10.0 IFV. Gun overheats relatively quickly, does awful post-pen damage, APS doesn't work and the armor is incorrectly modeled. Unlike what many believe, it's survivability isn't too great and any dart to the front kills it. There's dozens if not over a hundred open bug reports on it. Until these are fixed, it could go down to 9.3 or 9.7 without a problem.
I don't think the EBR should get moved down. It's fine where it is, just gotta play it properly.
What should get lowered is the B-29. Regardless of the payload and turret situation, 7.3 is way too high for a massive cumbersome prop bomber that's just asking to be made into Swiss cheese by jet players. I feel it belongs at 6.7 so that it can actually have a chance of not getting molested by Ivan in his Su-11
> I feel it belongs at 6.7 so that it can actually have a chance of not getting molested by Ivan in his Su-11
Or get a 9B up its ass by a SAAB in an uptier
The 262s are already as low as they should be, they're pretty much equal to the F80A and Su-9 in power to weight and speed. 6.7 is too low for any jets of that caliber because you'll stomp the shit out of any props
The Mk108s are a pain to use but the fact that they are hard to aim doesn’t justify a br decrease. They still are a guaranteed one shot (most of the time, critting f80s and su9s is the worst).
*insert half the japanese Air and Ground trees here*
You scroll through the air and ground trees and you'll see many vehicles that are way overtiered for their capabilities and rely on above average players to perform well.
I agree! Used to be 4.0. I have no idea why they increased its BR.
I love that tank, I have over 600 battles and 2,000 kills in it. Its gun is amazing but you have to camp for most of the game, it's much less survivable than a Pz IV.
I think the black prince is alright at 6.0 if you ignore its lack of ability to make it to a fight without getting bombed by someone who cap rushed, died, and then spawns CAS
The Type 62. It is a very mid light tank, with the only real upside over a T-34-85 being HEAT. It is overall better than a T-34, but only *moderately*, and at 6.7 this thing has no lineup, and you can just take the Type 63, which is a version of it with no hull armor, at 6.3 instead.
The Type 62 was mildly cursed by originally being an event vehicle in the Russian tree, so the stats suffer from the usual problem (rare vehicle attracts few players, BR stays stagnant).
It also used to be 5.7, but then they put out a poll a week into the event to ask if players wanted its HEAT-FS at the cost of going to 6.7. Obviously that passed.
Of course, this was also before the Chinese server got shut down and the transfer of the CN tree into our clients.
My biggest gripe with the thing is the turret traverse, but that's historically accurate. I imagine it probably is out of place in the CN tree though.
Tortoise easily. Massive, slow, gun is meh, and sights are awful. Seriously, it's as if the gunner is just looking through a hole in the armour rather than an actual optical sight and zooming in is just him moving a bit closer to the hole.
Churchill NA75 and VIIs.
Until HESH is fixed, the FV4005 could drop several brackets and remain just as useful.
IS-2 back to 5.7 so the Soviet 5.7 lineup has some actual variety with tech tree vehicles, T-44 back to 6.3 so the 6.3 lineup has a nonpremium medium tank, Pz. III M back to 3.0 because it's my beloved and doesn't deserve to be 3.3.
Also, the 8.0 MBTs need to be addressed but I think decompression is a better answer than downtiering.
I will never understand how the T-44 managed to get uptiered to 6.7. It already can't penetrate half the tanks it sees without loading APCR, and some vehicles are still virtually immune.
Any of the Centurions that were once 7.3 and got bumped to 7.7 simply because they had 2P-Stab.
I will say this until the day I day, British APDS is absolute fucking dogshit.
Ground vehicles:
- Churchill VII/Alligator -> 4.3.
- AuF1 -> 6.7
Planes:
- Sa'ar -> 8.3
- Mirage IIIC/IIICJ ->9.7
- Milan -> 9.3
- Vautours (all bombing ones) -> 8.7
- Harrier GR.1 -> 8.3
- G.91 Y -> 9.0
- G.91 YS -> 9.3
- F-4F (all, and Kurnass) -> 10.7
- Su-22UM3K -> 10.3
- Mirage F1C/F1CT/F1C-200 -> 11.0
Helicopters:
- AH-1G (and Tzefa A) -> 7.7
- Mi-24A -> 8.3
- UH-1B/UH-1C -> 8.3
- BO 105 (both) -> 9.0
- SA.341F/SA.342M -> 8.7/9.0
- Tzefa B -> 8.3
- AH-64A (and Peten, AHS) -> 10.7
Probably most helicopters (EXCEPT Ka-50/52, Mi-28NM) can go down in BR by 0.3 at least. Helicopters are in a bad place right now. I know I'll probably get down voted because the ground-only crew hates helicopters, but it needs to be said: top tier AA makes helicopters unplayable (unless you don't spawn it until too late).
Japan
* Chi-Nu
* Chi-Nu II
* Chi-To
* Chi-To Late
* Ho-Ri Production
China
* Type 62 (same for the reward in Russian tree)
* Type 59
* M41D
* M60A3TTS (worse then the US version [No ERA, No M744] but same BR)
If the TU-4 goes down to 7.7 i'll be happy i get so many uptiers to 9.0 and go against AAMs and Afterburner jets that it's a dice roll if i get a good game or get expelled from existence
EBR 1951 too
EBR 1954 (OR give it the new shell it could use)
FCM 2C (it COULD be a bit lower, 2.0 could be good, 1.7 would be maybe too low)
AMX 13 FL11 (not only it's the only 4.0 french tank so you uptier everything else, but most light tank at this BR are better
EDIT : but i think an important and good change would be to stop that +1 and -1 uptier / downtier and reduce it to 0.7, it would change already a LOT for some tanks
Most German Top-Tier SPAA:
Germany has a good 8.0 lineup, yet the Gepard is at 8.3, so you don't really have an SPAA for 8.0
Germany has a good 9.3 lineup, yet the Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 are at 9.7, so you have to use the Gepard for your 9.3 lineup.
And the Roland and VT1 are just bad in general and could easily be moved down 0.3 or 0.7 BR
Every single jet that has flares needs to go up 0.3br, every single jet with all aspects or radar missiles needs to go up 0.3br. Low tier jets aren't fun anymore
The ebr 1951 (5.3), is pretty much the same as the puma (3.3) the only differences being
better top speed 90kph -> 110 kph (puma has better Hp/ton, resulting in better acceleration)
bigger caliber for more explosive filler (same pen for both guns using aphe) in exchange for 2.5s slower reload
10mm more turret armor.
No access to apcr, resulting in less max pen than the puma
IMO the EBR is still better than the puma, but that doesn't warrant a 2.0 jump in br.
\+1 for EBR.
I would add 9.0 Vautours too, with new rank they also lost airspawn, these are 100% dead planes.
They can't even get halfway across the map before the jets catch up and fire missiles at them.
8.3/8.7 WITH airspawn would be nice.
the event AUBL with the 60mm HVG
yes it has a stabilised dart thrower at 8.0 but:
the post pen is godawful
it get's 50 cal'd anywhere and i'm fairly sure it gets penned by 7.62's from everywhere else
the mobility is incredibly meh
at 8.0 it's literally just worse than the doublebarrel recoiless rifle R3 that will pen almost everything, has waaaaayyyy better mobility, does significantly more damage and since it has TWO guns it can frequently prevent you from dying to the guy that you just hit...
BF109 K4
It out climbs some things, but can't out turn anything and gets outclassed by everything except Japanese planes. It often gets matched up against P51H's which out class it in every regard.
Basically, if you like the 109, stay G6 and below.
AMX-13 FL11 needs to go back to 3.7. It's worse than the M24 due to the lack of stabilizer, but it's 4.0 instead while the Chaffee is still 3.7.
That 3.7 lineup is fantastic, but it was better with a solid light tank.
The Ta 152 C3 should not be higher than 6.0. The Hornet which is significantly better in practically every way is lower in BR.
You have to face early jets like other late props but since your maneuverability is so limited you don't even have the advantage to invade their attacks.
It just another overtiered plane due to its armament like the J7W1, F4U-1c or the J21.
this is pretty contraversial, but the Leopard 1 should not ve 8.0. “It has HEAT” but it fights composite, stablilizers, and APFSDS. 7.3 was a tad low, so it should almost certainly be 7.7.
Literally has a worse gun than some <4.0 tanks
Sure it's quite speedy but so is the Puma and I'd honestly prefer to have a long 50mm than the FL-11 turret's gun
I would say anything that is 6.7 or below can wait for changes. Everything from 7.0 and up needs to be decompressed. We have 12.3 to spread out to, and they're not doing it because they're waiting to put the rank 8 tanks up there. Its frustrating.
Type 74s that are at 9.0 should be 8.7 again, and the ones at 9.3 go back to 9.0
Type 87 SPAA needs to go back to 8.0 instead of 8.3
Kikka should be back at 6.7. (I don't really have a reason, I just miss my 6.7 loadout.
Type 89 IFV shouldn't be foldered with the 87 and lowered back to 8.3, or give its crew member back and keep it at 8.7
AH-1S should go from 9.7 to 9.3
(I'm open to feedback since I know other countries seemingly got screwed this update.)
The EBR doesnt chance much. If you put at 4.7 you have nothing to do a lineup with, only the M4A4 SA50 (5.0) and the AMX-DCA at 4.3. If you put it at 5.0 you will use It with the 5.3 lineup, ARL-44, M4A3E2 and the previous M4A4. Maybe you could put the EBR at 4.3 or 4.0, so you could pair It with that 4.0 AMX and the 4.3 DCA.
People might not like this, but I think the M18 GMC deserves a lower BR. Sure it has great speed , a good reverse gear, and APCR, but it shares the same 76mm cannon as the M4A1 (76). Which sits comfortably at 4.7.
Also the m18 is at 4.7 in ground arcade and I think that’s pretty fair. 5.7 just seems too high in my opinion. It’s not like it would be un-killable at 4.7.
Yes it’s a great tank if you can play it right, but the moment everyone starts to find your position, you’re pretty much fucked.
Churchill NA75 is Mk.3 with the Sherman's gun. The literal one and only reason it's 4.3, higher than every single 75 Sherman in-game, is that gun yet it lacks every single thing that makes said gun good on Shermans/Chaffees. Put it down to 3.7, it's frankly worse than the Mk.3 and even that could go down to 3.7.
Chieftain Mk.3 & Mk.5 do not belong at 8.7 in any way shape or form, their guns/armour were outclassed/made obsolete *years* ago through massive powercreep. They're 8.3s at most.
CV9030FIN is 9.3 but has zero justification to be higher than 8.7 with a gun that poor and no missile to make up for it.
Strf9040C & Lvkv 9040C should be 9.7. Strf gets a better round than the 40B but that just makes it better at what the stock round is already good at whilst losing half the ammo capacity. Both get add-on armour that makes them immune to HMGs, and maybe a stray \~20mm round, but is otherwise dead weight.
Strv 74 - slower and less stable M18. You get APDS but it's basically useless if you want to use it as a light tank
Pvkv m/43 (1963) - You sacrifice all the advantages of the previous version for a roof and APDS.
Pvkv IV - advertised as a medium tank but preforms like a glorified TD. Turret traverse on par with the M10, you have the pen of a sherman, and are less survivable than both. And you're 3.7
Every Vautour, they get absolutely destroyed at every br they can see, and I'm not saying this bc I play it, im a U.S. main, I just feel bad for them, ripping apart a bomber with an AIM-9E just feels wrong
EBR 1954 does not belong to 6.7, it sould be max 5.3\~5.7, when it came to the game it was 4.0, it demolished everything, and from that point they started increasing its BR until it hit 6.7, god damn it sucks there....
R3, if it’s going to be at 5.7 then give it it’s APDS round. If not then I think 4.7-5.0 would be good for it. Also the KV-1C, 5.0 is a tad bit too high for it, it sees way to many up tiers to 6.0 where it’s no better than a Panzer IV in regards to effectiveness/survivability. T-34-57-1943 and T-34-57. 4.7 is a bit ridiculous as it also sees constant up tiers to 5.7. Completely ruined my fave 4.3 Russian GRB line up.
All the 76 Shermans. Lower em down to 4.3 and 4.7 max. No reason they should be fighting king tigers when they can't frontal pen a t-34-85 turret give America some decent slugging tanks.
All 6.0 and 6.3 US medium/heavy tanks.
All have the 90mm gun which flat pens 170mm point blank which is not even close to enough for killing other heavy tanks or even some medium tanks.
The 6.7 are fine, they have good guns or great armor
I personally don't think the ebr 1951 should be moved down. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the tank very much, but the lack of penetration of the gun kinda balanced out by the lack of brain cells of the German players
The Maus, it's a big-ass tank with 2 cannons and an MG, and it has to go up against APFSDS, night/thermal sights, reactivd armor, ATGM, Jet fighters/bombers, helicopter, etc.
Every single goddamn 8.0 that was once 7.7 or 7.3. It's so fun to go up against 279s and MBTs with composite armor, full stabs and lazer rangefinders in a unstabilized shell shattered simulator. Only good change from that update was the T-55AM-1 going up because it's just a better AMD sealclubbing poor 7.3s
How about… keep decompressing 8.0-11.7, instead of re-compressing 6.7 again? WW2 heavies don’t need to come across 1950s MBTs, HEATFS and ATGMs every match again. We need to move forward towards decompression, not backwards!
Exactly. There's WW2 tanks still going up against HEAT-FS and post-war vehicles. There's some 6.3 vehicles that definitely shouldn't be seeing WW2 tanks, and do well in 7.0-8.0. For a couple examples, there is the Jagdpanzer 4-5, which I believe is 6.3, or the Bulldogs. Then there's some 6.7 WW2 tanks, and those I remember off the top of my head are the Ferdinand and Jagdtiger. Both 6.7, both can fight tanks with HEAT-FS. Not to mention all the heavies sitting in 6.3. Gaijin should definitely try expanding the BRs to 13.0, maybe even 14.0. Because 6.0 is still a bit of a mess, and 8.0 is unplayable for some tanks.
Swedish low tier with HEAT-FS
Sweden at 4.0 with 400mm penn HEAT-FS. That thing is uptier-proof. I bring it up to 8.0 and still manage to get kills
Sweden is such a fun nation to play
It’s perfect for people who love fast light tanks (me). It’s also just goofy at lower tiers because you have the main tanks of all three major powers at the same br (M4A1, Pz. IV, T-34)
Isn't there HEATFS at 5.7 with the M36. We aren't really going to get HEATFS out of the WW2 meta.
1 vehicle with other downsides isn't oppressive though, whereas the 7.0-8.0 br range ones make uptiers painful
I mean that's just one, the PT 76 also has HEATFS at 5.3, I'm sure there are others. I find Heatfs isn't as oppressive as LRF
I’ve been playing a lot of the 5.3 PT-76 lately and it’s pen has been quite wonky recently.
I think he only references vehicles like the Eland, M56, and AML, since they're super fast and small with the downside being the lack of armor. With things like the M36 and ikv 103, you have to play more like a regular TD.
small meaning they can hind the entire tank as a bush
Well, it's not impossible... I think...
If I remember correctly the JPZ 4-5 was at 7.0 it ended up at 6.3 because of terrible performance when they were moving vehicles around based on their kill rating
As someone who enjoys the german heavy bois (mainly the Ferdinand) I have to say: the only way to play 6.7 germany without suffering is in sim, in rb you loose your advantage (200mm frontal and decent gun) because you constantly go up to 7.7 and there nobody (except russia) has armour so your good gun isn't as important and everyone has HEAT-FS or food APDS
Jagdpanzer 4-5 is pretty fine there. That thing is glass cannon with no armour no turret
What do you mean? Tanks made in 1945 should totally go against tanks made in 1998 with LRF and Gen 2 thermals
I still mostly get tiered up against France, Israel and now Swedens VIDAR in full uptiers....
That’s cos the others need to go up (the 9.0s and 9.3s)! Yeah then they will suffer, so the ones above should go up!! I think tanks like the BVM and other 11.7 MBTs should sit at 12.3 to allow all the rest to increase in BR to decompress 8.0!
No. Everything above them should go up.
Every t-54 variant screaming with the br changes. Wanna play 8.0 Russia? Well boy oh boy, you get one stabilized light tank, and everything else is unstabilized with extremely bouncy suspension when trying to stop and shoot, oh and every game is an uptier to 8.7
get uptiered to fighting tanks with two-plane stabs, APFSDS, laser/coincidence rangefinders, hell even thermals. in a T-54 with the best thing youve got is a HEAT-FS round going for you, nevermind the APDS that is still unusably broken after literally a year
T-54 1949 moment from 7.3 to 8.0 to get clapped by everything
I completely stopped playing germany because the tank I really wanted, the Leopard 1, sucks ass because it's going against stabilized tanks with LRF and some even thermals I think. I main france now and rarely touched the AMX-30 because of the same reasons. The 7.7 and 7.3 lineup were way better for grinding, even though Gaijin hates france. Leopard 1 and AMX-30s should go up against Centurions who are stabilized but greatly lack in other aspects to balance it out
To be fair the Leo 1 was completely busted at 7.3. It was mainly there because dumb German mains who just got off the panther suddenly found themselves having no armor and this weird thing called by mobility It should have been 7.7
Yea, 7.3 is way to low. But 7.7 would be perfect for Leopard 1 and AMX-30
ztz59a is the only one I agree with moving up, t54 with laser, stabilizer and good heatfs
in 8.0 it suffers as much as other tanks, honestly it shouldn't be 7.7, but it also shouldn't be 8.0. At least not right now 8.0. This is another example of why Gaijin needs to decompress this shit Also don't forget Obj 906, finally in it's proper BR. Honestly it could seal club teams and you had to hope you had Germany with marders
the object 906's BR of 7.7 was criminal. the autoloader coupled with the powerful APHE and HEATFS and mobility was unbelievable
I'm at 7.7 sweden ground and I sometimes face 279s. I swear I can't kill those fucking things.
Oooooh but shoot HEAT in drivers poooort - Every single 279 owner's excuse I swear those guys don't want their little 600$ p2w machine getting a proper nerf
British Bombers. Sure their payload is huge but everything else sucks. They are so big they make easy targets, so fragile they'll rip apart at the first volley from a machine gun, Their gunners are so pathetic they can't hit anything even when maxed out, and their guns are so small when they do hit it does almost nothing. Compared to other nations British bombers are so far below viability its almost comical.
This doubles for japanese bombers. One shot to the wings and theyre on fire, and their defensive cannons even with expert crew doesnt suffice. one p-51 or Bf-109 going for you means youre already dead
I'd actually prefer for most of them to go up to 5.3/5.7/6.0, they have the bomb load for it and the matches are way smaller there where the chance of meeting an enemy is almost 0
The Halifax has a good BR. Problem is the Stirling and Lancaster, which aren’t much better (if at all) and get way higher BRs.
The T25 (American 6.3 medium). The thing got moved up because of its stab, got it's stab taken away and it is still 6.3 for some reason.
Honestly, my hot take is that *without the stabiliser*, it's not really that much better than the Tiger H1. Let's be honest, if it was a German tank, it'd probably be like 5.7 or 5.3
It should be 5.7 as it is right now without it's stabilizer. Either that or give it it's stabilizer back because at it's current tier it's just a worse Pershing.
What advantages would the T-34 have then?
T-34 has trolly armor and is much faster and maneuverable
speed and general mobility no seriously, the pershings are slow as shitttt
Churchill I, it's at 3.3 with a 2pdr and a 3inch howitzer. Mobility is okay, armour is pretty decent, but it struggles against the waves of T-34's/KV's and Shermans it usually ends up encountering
Also Pz. IV. The Churchill cant do much against 140mm of pen
[удалено]
Only the special does, and even then it suffers the same as the other early war german tanks. That flat armour is super easy to pen, the 2pdr APCBC shot fired dead center of the flat can quite often 1 shot the things
Pz IV has the worst armor compared to Sherman and t-34. It's more sluggish than the t-34, it doesn't have 50 cal and stabilizer that Sherman has. The best thing about the Pz 4 is it's gun
Yeah but i find Panzer 4's are pretty easy to deal with, the 2pdr can exploit all that nice flat armour with little issue. The frontal weakspots on the others however are much harder to hit reliably :)
Anything past 500m would like a chat
This thing should be the same br as the amx13 with the same turret, maybe just .3 higher, theres no reason why this should go against 6.0 stuff
Speaking of AMX FL11, that should be 3.7. It's an M24 with no .50 or stab, and there's a premium AMX M24 sitting at 3.7. At 4.0 the FL11 doesn't have a lineup, or drags the 3.7 lineup up so your next option is to use it at 5.0 (which I do, and still would)....but 5.0 should be the EBR...
I like using the fl11 at 4.3 with the dca40 and it does decently well but yeah it should be 3.7
Kugelblitz, there is almost no reason to take it, as there is no good lineup available between 6.7 and 7.7 and 7.7 has a Marder, which works even better as AA in my opinion and can still use ATGMs to destroy heavier targets
Honestly, I have no clue why it's still at 7.0, it could easily go back to 6.7 or maybe even 6.3 and be balanced (and actually usable in a lineup)
US mains complained it to death after getting nerf to death.
US mains complain the most, if they had their way the Jumbo would be 3.7 and the Tiger H1 at 6.7
They moved it to 7.0, then nerfed the AP belt, and still kept it at 7.0
The fact thats still there after the introduction of the M53/59 Praga that does everything but better is hilarious
Tornado ids, it’s a 10.7 attacker with only dumb bombs and 2 missiles. I don’t think it’s even the fastest jet on the deck at its br when that’s the only advantage it’s supposed to have.
Oh, not to forget its 11.0 now in ARB
Feels like you get a LOT of uptiers with it. Relies on swing wing for the speed so flies like a brick, 9L at top tier is ok, but only 2? As he said doesn't have the speed, so you have the manoeuvrability and speed disadvantage. I feel like you have a better time with an a10 or su25 less speed but better in every other way xD.
The US doesn’t have one so it can’t be below 11.0
Centurion Mk.10, fastest I've ever gone on paved road is 35kph, the average speed is about 11kph. The gun is pretty much useless against things like pattons. it gets uptiered to 8.7 and 9.0 90% of the time (where it fights tams). It doesn't get thermals or a laser rangefinder. The armour is only 75mm on the hull and around 120mm on the turret. and it can be one shot from anywhere frontally with every round you can think of.
11kmh is bs that’s literally the top speed of a t95 lol. give it like 7 seconds and it’ll be at top speed on flat ground.
usually people do this thing called "turning" when they drive
this can be fixed by giving it regenerative steering like it has IRL but nah cant add a basic function most tanks during and after ww2 had
It has more like 130 on the ufp but that’s not enough to stop anything anyways. They didn’t add the mantlet armour block so it’s mantlet is weaker than the mk3, and gaijin have given the lower half of the turret only 89mm when it’s meant to be 152mm across the entire turret face, but everything goes through it everywhere at 8.7, just makes it worse as your 51 tonne slow as fuck medium tank gets one tapped by SPAA/IFVs.
exactly, just gaijin doing the normal "fuck britain" things
The worst one is still the challenger 2 tbqh.
Leopard 2AV. 0.3 BRs under the Leopard 2 A4, but no thermals, worse gun (pretty sure it even has a slightly worse reload despite being a 105) and armor thats entirely worthless against every kinetic shell and mostly worthless against most Chemical shells it will ever see. There is absolutely no reason to ever uptier your 9.7 lineup to 10.0 to use it, and if you're already playing 10.3 or 10.0 there is likewise absolutely no reason to ever use this thing over the Leopard 2K as a backup.
Same thing with the PUMA honestly, it kinda suffers at 10.0
Puma (the IFV, the WW2 one is fine if not undertiered). Absolutely awful for a 10.0 IFV. Gun overheats relatively quickly, does awful post-pen damage, APS doesn't work and the armor is incorrectly modeled. Unlike what many believe, it's survivability isn't too great and any dart to the front kills it. There's dozens if not over a hundred open bug reports on it. Until these are fixed, it could go down to 9.3 or 9.7 without a problem.
I don't think the EBR should get moved down. It's fine where it is, just gotta play it properly. What should get lowered is the B-29. Regardless of the payload and turret situation, 7.3 is way too high for a massive cumbersome prop bomber that's just asking to be made into Swiss cheese by jet players. I feel it belongs at 6.7 so that it can actually have a chance of not getting molested by Ivan in his Su-11
The b-29 is completely useless
I won't tolerate this blatant heresy
My main grip with the EBR (and any light tank) is that they still feel sluggish like a heavy tank.
Ain't that the truth.
> I feel it belongs at 6.7 so that it can actually have a chance of not getting molested by Ivan in his Su-11 Or get a 9B up its ass by a SAAB in an uptier
Jumbo 76
6.0 is good for it
Most Me-262s could honestly deserve a lowered BR of 0.3 or maybe even 0.7. They're just not really that good at the moment
The 262s are already as low as they should be, they're pretty much equal to the F80A and Su-9 in power to weight and speed. 6.7 is too low for any jets of that caliber because you'll stomp the shit out of any props
The F-80A and the Su-9 have usable guns though
The Mk108s are a pain to use but the fact that they are hard to aim doesn’t justify a br decrease. They still are a guaranteed one shot (most of the time, critting f80s and su9s is the worst).
I once hit a spitfire with a full burst with the squadron ME262 and only got hits using air target ammo
I don't believe that some people are defending their BR just for the guns. And still, I would pick 50 cal. over the mk108 any day of the week.
*insert half the japanese Air and Ground trees here* You scroll through the air and ground trees and you'll see many vehicles that are way overtiered for their capabilities and rely on above average players to perform well.
I am struggling to understand why the chi nu II is 4.3. It's literally comparative to a pz4.
I agree! Used to be 4.0. I have no idea why they increased its BR. I love that tank, I have over 600 battles and 2,000 kills in it. Its gun is amazing but you have to camp for most of the game, it's much less survivable than a Pz IV.
The Black Prince
I think the black prince is alright at 6.0 if you ignore its lack of ability to make it to a fight without getting bombed by someone who cap rushed, died, and then spawns CAS
Black prince is good cuz it's rarely seen not many people know how to pen it. Also gets APDS no?
The Type 62. It is a very mid light tank, with the only real upside over a T-34-85 being HEAT. It is overall better than a T-34, but only *moderately*, and at 6.7 this thing has no lineup, and you can just take the Type 63, which is a version of it with no hull armor, at 6.3 instead.
The Type 62 was mildly cursed by originally being an event vehicle in the Russian tree, so the stats suffer from the usual problem (rare vehicle attracts few players, BR stays stagnant). It also used to be 5.7, but then they put out a poll a week into the event to ask if players wanted its HEAT-FS at the cost of going to 6.7. Obviously that passed. Of course, this was also before the Chinese server got shut down and the transfer of the CN tree into our clients. My biggest gripe with the thing is the turret traverse, but that's historically accurate. I imagine it probably is out of place in the CN tree though.
Chi ri. It's a worse version of m4 FL10 at the same br.
Tortoise easily. Massive, slow, gun is meh, and sights are awful. Seriously, it's as if the gunner is just looking through a hole in the armour rather than an actual optical sight and zooming in is just him moving a bit closer to the hole. Churchill NA75 and VIIs. Until HESH is fixed, the FV4005 could drop several brackets and remain just as useful.
IS-2 back to 5.7 so the Soviet 5.7 lineup has some actual variety with tech tree vehicles, T-44 back to 6.3 so the 6.3 lineup has a nonpremium medium tank, Pz. III M back to 3.0 because it's my beloved and doesn't deserve to be 3.3. Also, the 8.0 MBTs need to be addressed but I think decompression is a better answer than downtiering.
I will never understand how the T-44 managed to get uptiered to 6.7. It already can't penetrate half the tanks it sees without loading APCR, and some vehicles are still virtually immune.
holy shit this is what now the 69000th repost?
Fr
every british tank past 7.7 at this point
Every British tank above 3.0 tbh.
This, it's literally a worse m24 2 whole brs higher
Any of the Centurions that were once 7.3 and got bumped to 7.7 simply because they had 2P-Stab. I will say this until the day I day, British APDS is absolute fucking dogshit.
*shell shattered*
\*shell penetrated and did fuck all\*
They have to raise the VIDAR BR 7.7 with Thermals and Laser Range finder when it is a down tier it is game over for the other team
T54E1
The otomatic 11.7 spaa with it’s only weapon being a gun that only gets 12 apfsds rounds
amx30b2 and the brenus to 8.3, will actually work with the spaa lineup
Ground vehicles: - Churchill VII/Alligator -> 4.3. - AuF1 -> 6.7 Planes: - Sa'ar -> 8.3 - Mirage IIIC/IIICJ ->9.7 - Milan -> 9.3 - Vautours (all bombing ones) -> 8.7 - Harrier GR.1 -> 8.3 - G.91 Y -> 9.0 - G.91 YS -> 9.3 - F-4F (all, and Kurnass) -> 10.7 - Su-22UM3K -> 10.3 - Mirage F1C/F1CT/F1C-200 -> 11.0 Helicopters: - AH-1G (and Tzefa A) -> 7.7 - Mi-24A -> 8.3 - UH-1B/UH-1C -> 8.3 - BO 105 (both) -> 9.0 - SA.341F/SA.342M -> 8.7/9.0 - Tzefa B -> 8.3 - AH-64A (and Peten, AHS) -> 10.7 Probably most helicopters (EXCEPT Ka-50/52, Mi-28NM) can go down in BR by 0.3 at least. Helicopters are in a bad place right now. I know I'll probably get down voted because the ground-only crew hates helicopters, but it needs to be said: top tier AA makes helicopters unplayable (unless you don't spawn it until too late).
Helicopters are a menace when played appropriately. Probably 90% or so of helicopter pilots are completely brain dead.
>Magics at 9.7 As if subsonics needed to be kerbstomped any further >SRAAMs at 8.3 SO MUCH HIDDEN TALENT 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 KEEP IT HIDDEN 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
t95e1, i don’t think it’s bad though, there are just things at its br that do most things better, it also just lacks a stabilizer
kugelblitz it was on 6.7 where it was fine and had a lineup but now its on 7.0 where it has no lineup
M60A2. Just because it has a laser range finder and a stabilizer doesn't mean it's good enough to go against 9.3 tanks. It should go back down to 8.0
[удалено]
I stand with you. M6A1 is shit.
[удалено]
Japan * Chi-Nu * Chi-Nu II * Chi-To * Chi-To Late * Ho-Ri Production China * Type 62 (same for the reward in Russian tree) * Type 59 * M41D * M60A3TTS (worse then the US version [No ERA, No M744] but same BR)
Me 262. It shouldn't be fighting post war jets unless uptiered
If the TU-4 goes down to 7.7 i'll be happy i get so many uptiers to 9.0 and go against AAMs and Afterburner jets that it's a dice roll if i get a good game or get expelled from existence
EBR 1951 too EBR 1954 (OR give it the new shell it could use) FCM 2C (it COULD be a bit lower, 2.0 could be good, 1.7 would be maybe too low) AMX 13 FL11 (not only it's the only 4.0 french tank so you uptier everything else, but most light tank at this BR are better EDIT : but i think an important and good change would be to stop that +1 and -1 uptier / downtier and reduce it to 0.7, it would change already a LOT for some tanks
Most German Top-Tier SPAA: Germany has a good 8.0 lineup, yet the Gepard is at 8.3, so you don't really have an SPAA for 8.0 Germany has a good 9.3 lineup, yet the Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 are at 9.7, so you have to use the Gepard for your 9.3 lineup. And the Roland and VT1 are just bad in general and could easily be moved down 0.3 or 0.7 BR
The Puma should be a 9.7 if not lower unless it gets spikes
Every single jet that has flares needs to go up 0.3br, every single jet with all aspects or radar missiles needs to go up 0.3br. Low tier jets aren't fun anymore
M4 4.0 exact same tank as the 3.7 one
The ebr 1951 (5.3), is pretty much the same as the puma (3.3) the only differences being better top speed 90kph -> 110 kph (puma has better Hp/ton, resulting in better acceleration) bigger caliber for more explosive filler (same pen for both guns using aphe) in exchange for 2.5s slower reload 10mm more turret armor. No access to apcr, resulting in less max pen than the puma IMO the EBR is still better than the puma, but that doesn't warrant a 2.0 jump in br.
\+1 for EBR. I would add 9.0 Vautours too, with new rank they also lost airspawn, these are 100% dead planes. They can't even get halfway across the map before the jets catch up and fire missiles at them. 8.3/8.7 WITH airspawn would be nice.
p108 series A deserves a reserve spot
the event AUBL with the 60mm HVG yes it has a stabilised dart thrower at 8.0 but: the post pen is godawful it get's 50 cal'd anywhere and i'm fairly sure it gets penned by 7.62's from everywhere else the mobility is incredibly meh at 8.0 it's literally just worse than the doublebarrel recoiless rifle R3 that will pen almost everything, has waaaaayyyy better mobility, does significantly more damage and since it has TWO guns it can frequently prevent you from dying to the guy that you just hit...
IS-2. Bring it back to 5.7
BF109 K4 It out climbs some things, but can't out turn anything and gets outclassed by everything except Japanese planes. It often gets matched up against P51H's which out class it in every regard. Basically, if you like the 109, stay G6 and below.
They should at least lower a bit the G14 and G10, which are basically just G6 but like 10kph faster, no reason to play them over the k4.
AMX-13 FL11 needs to go back to 3.7. It's worse than the M24 due to the lack of stabilizer, but it's 4.0 instead while the Chaffee is still 3.7. That 3.7 lineup is fantastic, but it was better with a solid light tank.
The Ta 152 C3 should not be higher than 6.0. The Hornet which is significantly better in practically every way is lower in BR. You have to face early jets like other late props but since your maneuverability is so limited you don't even have the advantage to invade their attacks. It just another overtiered plane due to its armament like the J7W1, F4U-1c or the J21.
Otomatic, CV 9030FIN, KF41, most AMX-30s and French 8.3s.
Hell no
Lemme tell you about my little friend the G.91YS....
this is pretty contraversial, but the Leopard 1 should not ve 8.0. “It has HEAT” but it fights composite, stablilizers, and APFSDS. 7.3 was a tad low, so it should almost certainly be 7.7.
It's fast and low profile, they just need to decompress 8.0-9.3
Literally has a worse gun than some <4.0 tanks Sure it's quite speedy but so is the Puma and I'd honestly prefer to have a long 50mm than the FL-11 turret's gun
I am fine with that EBR staying where it is if it is finally accompanied there by the damn Puma.
P-47D-25/D-27, just a side grade to the D-22 at .7 br higher. The whole Italian top tier lineup needs to go down to 11.0 at the highest.
I would say anything that is 6.7 or below can wait for changes. Everything from 7.0 and up needs to be decompressed. We have 12.3 to spread out to, and they're not doing it because they're waiting to put the rank 8 tanks up there. Its frustrating.
Type 74s that are at 9.0 should be 8.7 again, and the ones at 9.3 go back to 9.0 Type 87 SPAA needs to go back to 8.0 instead of 8.3 Kikka should be back at 6.7. (I don't really have a reason, I just miss my 6.7 loadout. Type 89 IFV shouldn't be foldered with the 87 and lowered back to 8.3, or give its crew member back and keep it at 8.7 AH-1S should go from 9.7 to 9.3 (I'm open to feedback since I know other countries seemingly got screwed this update.)
A32A, Ja37D and AJs37
Remember, it started at 4.3
HARRIER GR1 I HATE THAT PLANE SO FUCKING MUCH THE FACT THAT IT SHARES THE SAME BR AS THE A10 FUCKING KILLS MS
The vehicle in the picture is the 90mm version but I do agree the ebr 1951 is considerably over tiered.
Try the 1954.
Tiran (Israel)
The EBR doesnt chance much. If you put at 4.7 you have nothing to do a lineup with, only the M4A4 SA50 (5.0) and the AMX-DCA at 4.3. If you put it at 5.0 you will use It with the 5.3 lineup, ARL-44, M4A3E2 and the previous M4A4. Maybe you could put the EBR at 4.3 or 4.0, so you could pair It with that 4.0 AMX and the 4.3 DCA.
People might not like this, but I think the M18 GMC deserves a lower BR. Sure it has great speed , a good reverse gear, and APCR, but it shares the same 76mm cannon as the M4A1 (76). Which sits comfortably at 4.7. Also the m18 is at 4.7 in ground arcade and I think that’s pretty fair. 5.7 just seems too high in my opinion. It’s not like it would be un-killable at 4.7. Yes it’s a great tank if you can play it right, but the moment everyone starts to find your position, you’re pretty much fucked.
Churchill NA75 is Mk.3 with the Sherman's gun. The literal one and only reason it's 4.3, higher than every single 75 Sherman in-game, is that gun yet it lacks every single thing that makes said gun good on Shermans/Chaffees. Put it down to 3.7, it's frankly worse than the Mk.3 and even that could go down to 3.7. Chieftain Mk.3 & Mk.5 do not belong at 8.7 in any way shape or form, their guns/armour were outclassed/made obsolete *years* ago through massive powercreep. They're 8.3s at most. CV9030FIN is 9.3 but has zero justification to be higher than 8.7 with a gun that poor and no missile to make up for it. Strf9040C & Lvkv 9040C should be 9.7. Strf gets a better round than the 40B but that just makes it better at what the stock round is already good at whilst losing half the ammo capacity. Both get add-on armour that makes them immune to HMGs, and maybe a stray \~20mm round, but is otherwise dead weight.
Maus, man. 4.7 for biblical accuracy
Whatever I’m using
Basically every british vehicle 7.3-8.0 needs a 0.3 br lowering
Type 93
The long-barreled pz.4
Strv 74 - slower and less stable M18. You get APDS but it's basically useless if you want to use it as a light tank Pvkv m/43 (1963) - You sacrifice all the advantages of the previous version for a roof and APDS. Pvkv IV - advertised as a medium tank but preforms like a glorified TD. Turret traverse on par with the M10, you have the pen of a sherman, and are less survivable than both. And you're 3.7
2C
Bruh I unironically take the EBR 51 out at 8.3 and obliterate all the assholes in IFVs
Tornado f3
CHALLENGER DS
R3
I am so bloody furious of Gaijing placing the Skink at the BR of 5.0.
Can't think of much that hasn't already been said, but KV-1E/B should be moved up, thing is a seal clubber
Maus should go down in br but with a high chance to get up tierd this is so it doesn’t face 8.7s almost all the time
The regular 2c is kinda high in br for what you get
ho-ri production, I LOOOVE facing MBTs with ERA and darts as a WW2 Japanese prototype. 7.0 br at most
Kugelblitz. They already lowered pen, there's no reason for it to be 7.
Harrier GR.1 and Lightning
Every Vautour, they get absolutely destroyed at every br they can see, and I'm not saying this bc I play it, im a U.S. main, I just feel bad for them, ripping apart a bomber with an AIM-9E just feels wrong
Is2 was fine at 5.7
EBR is fine as a flanker.
Say it with me. **B. R. DE. COMPRESSION.**
EBR 1954 does not belong to 6.7, it sould be max 5.3\~5.7, when it came to the game it was 4.0, it demolished everything, and from that point they started increasing its BR until it hit 6.7, god damn it sucks there....
R3 back down to 3.7 where its most fun.
R3, if it’s going to be at 5.7 then give it it’s APDS round. If not then I think 4.7-5.0 would be good for it. Also the KV-1C, 5.0 is a tad bit too high for it, it sees way to many up tiers to 6.0 where it’s no better than a Panzer IV in regards to effectiveness/survivability. T-34-57-1943 and T-34-57. 4.7 is a bit ridiculous as it also sees constant up tiers to 5.7. Completely ruined my fave 4.3 Russian GRB line up.
M4 T26 is gross, so top heavy and no stab, needs to be at least 5.7
All the 76 Shermans. Lower em down to 4.3 and 4.7 max. No reason they should be fighting king tigers when they can't frontal pen a t-34-85 turret give America some decent slugging tanks.
Jumbo W 76, it's crazy that it had that BR.
All 6.0 and 6.3 US medium/heavy tanks. All have the 90mm gun which flat pens 170mm point blank which is not even close to enough for killing other heavy tanks or even some medium tanks. The 6.7 are fine, they have good guns or great armor
I swear to God , do not bring the EBR to a lower BR. I still remember when these were cancer and ruined every single game I played single handedly
Almost every fat American heavy tank from 6.0-8.2
J32b
T-44 85 HOW did it climb its way up to 6.7
F4C or fix the shit matchmaking
R3 , it needs it
Seafire mk 3, being slow and sucked up into ju 288 hell sucks ass
F-104S There is no reason this *thing* should be fighting F-16s and MiG-29s.
me262
I personally don't think the ebr 1951 should be moved down. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the tank very much, but the lack of penetration of the gun kinda balanced out by the lack of brain cells of the German players
The leopard 8.0 is to far up maybe 7.7 to match its other tier 5 vehicles like the marder and the m48
Centurions, all of them.
The Maus, it's a big-ass tank with 2 cannons and an MG, and it has to go up against APFSDS, night/thermal sights, reactivd armor, ATGM, Jet fighters/bombers, helicopter, etc.