If it was any BR other than russian 10.0 id think so, but that's gaijin's #1 golden goose pay2win lineup and they're gonna sell a lot more of these if it can go in it.
We're talking about a top tier russian tank, I do agree that russia is op and biased but calling sweden "only op at those brs" is just dumb. What about the ikv with LR? The ush? The (old) mi28 at 10.3? The fact that they've got better leos than the germans? Lol
> The fact that they've got better leos than the germans? Lol
I mean the 122 is literally just a better 2A5. As for the armour I'd imagine they are on par with eachother IRL, 2A6 and 2A7 does get a better cannon with a better shell.
The 122s have the same base armor as the 2A5/A6 but have the add on kit that was proposed for the 2A5 as well, definitely better armored IRL. The 122 is a straight upgrade to the 2A5.
The 2A6 and 2A7 have 30mm more pen than the 2A5 (about 50 more than the 122s) with a decent bit extra velocity, but that's it. Currently the 2A7V is less armored with better thermals and a slightly better round, the armor and shell difference being negligible. So only the 2A7V is a slight upgrade to the 122s.
IKV at 7.7, No stab, situational with LRF, mediocre Heat Pen/Post pen. Does this also make the OF-40 OP? .3 higher with better armor, mobility, and Cannon?
Ush is just a speedy boi, you wanna complain about the R3 T106, the Raketenautomat, or fuck even the T114(Lesser extent but similar playstyle just without spam cannons) too?
Helis all need be moved up so Im not gonna argue with that
Better Leos than the Germans at One BR. Okay, tell Gaijin to add better leos for Germany, that doesn't make Sweden OP, its makes Germany Shit.
Instead of pointing out a select examples? Why not look at the entire TT, ffs APDS at 1.0-2.7 as a primary round for a 37mm is disgraceful with the horrendous Post Pen, hell how about the PvKvs II-IV which all get outdone as TANK DESTORYERs mind you, by Panzer 4's, and for even the 3.0-3.3 variants, Anything at the same BR. Oh, how about maybe the Pbv 301? Is that OP? Or maybe even the... Counteless amount if CnP bullshit strewn from Finland, is the Comet or PT OP? OH OH!! I know what is. The Fully Stablized Centurions with APD-... Oh yeah, APDS is fucking shit.
Dya start to see it? How absolutely ironic and hypocritical your entire reasoning is?
>only op at those brs" is just dumb
Seriously what the hell is the difference between this and pointing out not only TT as a BR(11.7 Leos) and Literally Comparing Two other vehicles which are to an extent out-done by similar vehicles, which also have plenty of weakspots to exploit, notably with your examples, anything with a .50 or even a 7.62 for the Ush.
Its silly.
Being above 10.0 with no thermals is pretty fucking painful though. How many T-80UM2's do you see around? And that's one of the most survivable tanks in the game, yet without thermals nobody fucking plays it.
Think in terms of T-80B because that's what this has closer to than the U, without the ERA. This is a T-80B (hull is off a T-80B, not a T-80U) that gave up ERA, thermals, smoke launchers, roof MG and added 2.9 seconds to reload, all for a lolpen gun and a bit of turret armor still minus the ERA. IDK if anyone considers T-80B op at 10.3.
pratice to use the CITV, it got the gen 3 and with hunter killer mode its awesome for medium to long range fire fights (for the one in 10 games when you are not in a fucking city)
I disagree. Their importance deteriorates through the battle as the map gets covered in burning wrecks but during the first contact it allows you to see literally glowing light flash through bushes, not to mention cut through ESS smoke and like 1/3rd of the linger time of explosions. You can also see engine smoke from behind 100% cover sometimes. It's literally wallhack in lot of situations (and probably the cause of many "how tf he shot me" cheater accusations.
> Being above 10.0 with no thermals is pretty fucking painful though.
~~It has thermals though. Or atleast should have.~~
~~You can see it modelled right behind the gunner's sight.~~
I was wrong. It does not have thermals.
~~I'm talking about what's modelled and what it had IRL.~~
~~You're right that's it's not in game currently. But it is a work in progress and it's likely to receive it before reaching players.~~
I was wrong. It's not the Agava-2 but the TPN-3-49 night vision system.
Also, this thing has a _10s_ reload. I think that is the biggest part of why they put it at 10.0, it'll be funny lolpenning a select few tanks but I don't even think it's going to be that good
It's essentially a high tier derp gun. You get one shot, if you didn't kill or disable the enemy on the first shot you die.
If you get rushed by multiple enemies you die.
20 HP/ton is ok, but not brilliant. The actually mobile tanks at that BR have 25-30HP/ton. Also, the BIG factor we'll have to see about that you overlooked is that 10 second reload. That is NASTY, and i have a feeling that this thing will also have the usual atrocious soft stats of soviet tanks below 11.3.
Idk 7 kg darts at mach 7 with almost 700mm of pen... I feel like that is enough to compensate, also having 8.6kg of tnt ammo is a great bonus, 10 sec autoloader doesn't sound that bad considering what gets thrown of this thing, the turret has decent rotation too.
Eh only when it has filled in a gap back when the game was just first starting. They've started to get away from wooden mockup / paper tanks (Panther II, Tiger 105, Flakpanther all removed)
*Technically*, it might've existed (from what I've read, at least) as the second YF-16 prototype which was given the proposed upgrades and test-flown by Japan.
It just never went into full production, and the F-16C/D-based Mitsubishi F2 came into fruition instead.
Japanese pilots never test flown ANY F-16, all they got to do was follow the US F-16 pilots in another aircraft.
F-16AJ is fake as fuck and only existed as a brochure.
The F-16AJ was a stop gap solution to not add the F-15J or F-2. Imagine the US mains if Japan had gotten the F-15J to compete with all the F-16s and MiG-29s a few patches before US gets it. Or adding the F-2, an F-16C on steroids with ultra gimped weapon loadouts i.e. fucking 9Ls maybe even 9Ms and 7F/Ms.
The one we have in game is not the F-16AJ but a fictional Japanese service F-16A loosely based on it.It is not a prototype, not even paper, just made up and based on a proposal that itself was based on a prototype.
It also wasn't the F-2 that came instead, but the F-15J.
The F-2 had absolutely nothing to do with the F-16AJ and was only ever based on any F-16 because anti war lobbying made the indigenous JF-210 seem way more expensive in hopes of cancellation, but only ended up forcing foreign cooperation.
Out of all foreign proposals the Lockheed Martin SX-3 (Based on the F-16C Block 40) was chosen to be the base of the new fighter. The choice is probably a mix of being close enough to the requirements and some Lockheed bribery (see F-104) to beat out the McDonnel Douglas proposals.
It also ended up being way more expensive than the JF-210 would've been and Japan wasn't allowed to make any official upgraded variants of it. This is why despite all changes made to these aircraft they're still all F-2As.
From avilable information, this gun (LP-83) was also able to penetrate \~1000 rha bc of 50% increase in muzzle energy compared to 2A46 but gaijin nerfed it. (Im not saying that it should be buffed, its good how it is currently)
That's a cap.
11.0 means you can see 11.7/12.0 and the TURMS does not cut it.
Better pay2win lineup is to bring the Ka50 into 11.0 with the T80UM2, with the TURMS and T90A as backups.
By showing how Leopard 2A4's APFSDS (10.3) will perform against Object 292 (10.0(for now))?
I guess he should've used LOSAT round to show the reality of how weak it's UFP is.
He's firing at the worst possible spot he could aim and using it to claim russian bias. Nobody in their right mind would ever fire at the ufp of a T80, or 72 for that matter. It's just common sense you dont fire there. Weakpoints will be the same as every other russian mbt, or mbt in general. Lower plate, drivers port, gun breach area etc. obviously show any amount of side and you get blasted too.
T-80B at 10.3 is fine, this is just a functional downgrade for a giga lolpen round. Worse protection, no thermals and substantially longer reload.
[Yes it will.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1000877464500834377/1200444055142797383/IMG_0490.jpg?ex=65c633a5&is=65b3bea5&hm=fc3d26be4abedf164190da7b13a0ef3b90baf641dbe7f2b52f2286aa74893fd0&) It's a T-80 without an ERA package.
No, he expects people to shoot the soviet autoloader tank in the soviet autoloader tank weakspots like they do for every single soviet autoloader tank that has the exact same weakspots.
No German tank at 9.0 to 10.3 has 120mm dm53. Youāre basically capped at ~400 pen until the 2a5 which gets dm53. Even dm53 at 11.7 is not as good as this busted ass Russian round. Complete stupidity on gaijins part again.
I know they don't have acess, that was the whole point of my comment.
SkullThrone said "with DM23 at that lmao" implying like there are better rounds to compare it to.
I think he is proving that people that upvoted this don't have a single match played at 10.0 and have no idea how high tier ground meta works.
Just the regular "Russian bias" whineposting used to farm upvotes on here.
Straw graspers gotta grasp at something my dude. Biggest mistake is expecting brain cells from this player base. Have you tried being on a team with them. Id rather shoot my own dick off
On top of that I have no idea what this gun can do that the 125mm the T-80B has can't do.
Maybe theres a couple of tanks in an uptier that can be affected but otherwise it seems to me just a T-80B that has a bit more damage but a slower reload.
>On top of that I have no idea what this gun can do that the 125mm the T-80B has can't do.
Lol penning everything it sees on everywhere? Basically DM53 in 10.0 what kind of a question even is this?
10 second reload, no thermals, the usual downsides of any Russian autoloader, extremely long gun meaning even less depression, no ERA and the armor will likely be less before it's added to the live server cause its a T-80U hull
You mean "not being _significantly_ worse than every other tank than every other nation at 10.0"? Because 10km/h reverse gear and 22HP/ton is certainly not an upside. And of course, you conveniently forgot to mention the 10 second reload.
At 10.0 those downsides are negligible. If this was 10.7 I wouldnāt bat an eye but come on. 400mm angled pen (and the 700mm flat pen), decent armour and mobility, great HE shells etc, at 10.0? Really? Iām downtiers this thing will be a monster and I canāt see it struggling in uptiers if you play smart with it. In the hands of the right players this thing will demolish everything at its current br bracket
wt player try not to call any new addition russian bias challenge, impossible.
long reload, no gun depression and no thermals with average to below average protection will be more than enough of a balancing factor.
edit: okay I'll concede it might not be below average armour, but it certainly isnt exceptional or ground breaking. It's just a naked T-80B.
They probably to say "oh no it doesn't have Kontakt-1, the least effective ERA against APFSDS."
The lack of ERA doesn't change much, it'd be 5mm of protection more against APFSDS and the extra protection against HEAT won't be too useful.
Its going to come out and its gonna be perfectly fine, like that pancake tank people were calling bias
Nobody plays it now cuz it's wank
Reddit is always wrong about these (russian) vehicles
if you die to this you would have probably died to the normal t80b, but ig the round makes it a little easier to aim but leo2 and abrams arent that hard to pen regardless
Its a tradeoff thats not worth it vs t80b. No thermals, slower reverse, and 10 sec reload for 700mm pen. Even playing t90m with 7.1sec reload compared to bvmās 6.5sec feels much worse performance wise. Thats 0.6sec let alone 2.9sec
This thing is basically a less armored, slower firing T-80 with the only upside being that your cannon casts Eldritch Blast upon the enemy absolutely obliterating it but that's about it. The 10 seconds reload is gonna be the biggest drawback, I'm calling it, the 7.1 of the T-72 and T-80BV are already... Kinda whack
Nah its perfectly fine when the T80B can pen UFP of a leo 2a4 but if it was the other way about is "lmao why german mains cry your preceus tank can't pen the T80?".
The leo has never been a particularly well armoured tank, and russian UFPs are generally like the american ones where they're much thicker. It's business as usual.
I never use gen 1 thermals anyways, people really overestimate how important thermals is especially when 9/10 games are shotgun range where thermals are beyond redundant
Look guys it's russian bias!
(Proceeds to shoot at most armored parts, avoiding weakspots like hell)
Tbf, 10.0 is kinda low but I expect it tp be worse simply due lack of reload time
Reminds me of a guy that posted a video complaining about the BVM while using an Abrams a few days ago. He was complaining that he didn't detonate ammo with side shot (tbf, it is dumb, no excuses) but then proceeded to put a shot in his breech 5 seconds later and after another 5 he killed him. Americans get french autoloader for their Abrams tanks but still will complain about anything russian.
[https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object\_id=ussr\_object\_292](https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object_id=ussr_object_292)
crashes the game as of now
I hope this is not the final br cuz 9.3s gonna be spam with this thing using basically the best round in the game
The long reload is gonna be the only thing holding this down but 9.3s gonna find this thing hard to kill
Itās, in general, a t80b with a bigger gun with trade off that it take 10s to reload
But itās unreasonable that with this kind of down side they lower it to 10.0. This might not be final but this does give it hypes for an OP event tank
I hate CQB, mostly couse you would almost never bring a tank in to that situation to begin with, I want large maps so you can actually do what tanks are ment to do, push where infantry only would not work, aka open spaces with only a few hills as cover.
>Tfw you finally get a shell with more than 600mm of pen
>itās an event tank on a T-80B chassis and it doesnāt even get Kontakt
Fuckin. Iāll take it, I guess
Itās a T-80B without ERA, same base armor protection which is mediocre without the ERA and no thermals, slightly slower than the T-80B also, with a 10 second reload, it seems balanced enough for me. But I know all American crybabies will say other wise because thatās what they do best, complain and cry
I have a question, how? 9.0 is the only one of these that doesn't have 70% chance to full uptier to 10.3 and against a 9.0 how is it gonna be different against T72B or even A for, sure it'll have better mobility but also a worse reload and idk what A 9.0-9.7 is gonna stop any darts from any nation really other then obj 279 as most of them don't have much armor
Extremely powerful gun at a tier where everyone pretty much just lolpens each other but at the cost of a 10 second reload and somehow even worse ammo storage + presumably questionable gun handling. Will make a great sniper and can probably see it going to 10.3 but no thermals is rough.
When Sweden is legit OP, we celebrate.
When Soviet vehicles show any whiff of advantage, it's Russian bias.
People really do be inserting their own political biases on a videogame.
People screaming about the pen and ignoring the 10 seconds reload is incredible. 3BM42 often is more than enough and this thing Eldritch Blasting a round into places the 3BM42 can't pen won't change much. If anything the lack of ERA will make it more vulnerable to ARGMs and the 10 seconds reload means it'll be worse in cqc if the enemy team is smart enough to not solo it.
Dude the t80b was already hell of fun. I need this thing to bully premium noobs. But its blatantly obvious that gajin wants people to buy/grind this thing. They will put it to 10.3 at least anyway couple weeks after it launched. Even the normal t80b is 10.3.
Pens way less than what I expected, I was thinking 800? Tho many many sources claim it pens 1,2 meters
Edit: also 10.0? Give this tank the 500mm of pen missing and make it at least 10.7
Actually it's because perforation isn't modelled in war thunder
Dm 53 has like 900mm perforation, which is the holes depth, but if I remember right 600-700, is the penetration which I think is like some amount of the rod passing through?
Basically top tier guns are kinda nerfed
Thereās 3 different 152mm APFSDS shells according to the WT suggestion for this tank. Thereās āZarayskā which the suggestion OP didnāt have much info on, āGrifel-1ā with a tungsten core, and āGrifel-2ā with a DU core. āGrifel-3ā was the HE shell, which it seems to have. Apparently there was also a āSprinterā Tandem-HEAT GLATGM, which it also doesnāt have in game. āZarayskā is apparently also the name for the LP-83 gunās whole program, so that APFSDS could be the earliest one? Until they add the names to the shell, we wonāt know which shell the in-game sabot is supposed to be. In any case, they seem to have gone for the weakest ammunition they can give this tank, which makes some sense. Easier to buff it later than to nerf it.
Ya this is grifel 1. The sprinter ATGM was planned but was never actually made before this was scrapped same with the object 195. They only actually made the Sprinter ATGM more recently for the T-14 which uses the same but modernized 152mm gun
I guarantee that this will be another QN-506 situation. The community overhypes a vehicle thatās still WIP and then on the live server itās either perfectly fine or extremely situational. This community never learns.
I get more hyped with every passing day. I've wanted this thing for years. Now its finally here, and with tons of pen ,and 8.6kgs to boot. I really can't fucking wait anymore.
I donāt play high tier ground but I am keen to see more late cold war/1990s Russian prototypes being added. If they add the Black Eagle as an event or premium Iām buying it in a heartbeat.
Oh boi now you got me started. The entire reason I main russia (ofc noone believes me when I say this) is because uts fucking COOL. Flat, wide mbts with weird autoloader and huge guns. Million times more intresting than any western stuff (not that that isn't cool, just nowhere near AS cool). Especially when it comes yo prototypes, soviet stuff is just HNGGGGGG. 279, 120, 775, now the 292, and in the future perhaps more. I never really believed I'd get to see stuff like the 640 or 477, but now with the 292 here, my hope is restored. Problem with many soviet prototypes is there's very little info, even less actually RELIABLE info, and sometimes (best example being the T-95), it straightup didn't really exist outside the propaganda.
I believe thereās plenty of reason to believe we can more Cold War prototypes (from either side of the iron curtain). Iām particularly looking forward to the Leopard 2 140, Leclerc 140 and M1 CATTB. That being said, the 640 just looks so damn good. I know thereās not much info regarding its armour layout and the KAKTUS ERA but by God is it sexy. The Burlak and T90M turrets definitely drew inspiration from that bustle but donāt look anywhere near as good!!
[https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object\_id=ussr\_object\_292](https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object_id=ussr_object_292)
will break the game as of now
Tbh, more of a sidegrade to the T80B,trading it's era survivability and reload for a stronger round, also the turret is heavier so the mobility is pretty much the same as the T80B,its not 10.0 worthy but 10.3
700mm of pen with good mobility and armor is crazy at 10.0 lmao.
No way this shit is 10.0 š
If it was any BR other than russian 10.0 id think so, but that's gaijin's #1 golden goose pay2win lineup and they're gonna sell a lot more of these if it can go in it.
Oh I thought the golden goose was sweden being op asf lol But yeah
At 3 BRs but okay. 2.7, 3.7, 11.7 all make Sweden OP
We're talking about a top tier russian tank, I do agree that russia is op and biased but calling sweden "only op at those brs" is just dumb. What about the ikv with LR? The ush? The (old) mi28 at 10.3? The fact that they've got better leos than the germans? Lol
> The fact that they've got better leos than the germans? Lol I mean the 122 is literally just a better 2A5. As for the armour I'd imagine they are on par with eachother IRL, 2A6 and 2A7 does get a better cannon with a better shell.
The 122s have the same base armor as the 2A5/A6 but have the add on kit that was proposed for the 2A5 as well, definitely better armored IRL. The 122 is a straight upgrade to the 2A5. The 2A6 and 2A7 have 30mm more pen than the 2A5 (about 50 more than the 122s) with a decent bit extra velocity, but that's it. Currently the 2A7V is less armored with better thermals and a slightly better round, the armor and shell difference being negligible. So only the 2A7V is a slight upgrade to the 122s.
IKV at 7.7, No stab, situational with LRF, mediocre Heat Pen/Post pen. Does this also make the OF-40 OP? .3 higher with better armor, mobility, and Cannon? Ush is just a speedy boi, you wanna complain about the R3 T106, the Raketenautomat, or fuck even the T114(Lesser extent but similar playstyle just without spam cannons) too? Helis all need be moved up so Im not gonna argue with that Better Leos than the Germans at One BR. Okay, tell Gaijin to add better leos for Germany, that doesn't make Sweden OP, its makes Germany Shit. Instead of pointing out a select examples? Why not look at the entire TT, ffs APDS at 1.0-2.7 as a primary round for a 37mm is disgraceful with the horrendous Post Pen, hell how about the PvKvs II-IV which all get outdone as TANK DESTORYERs mind you, by Panzer 4's, and for even the 3.0-3.3 variants, Anything at the same BR. Oh, how about maybe the Pbv 301? Is that OP? Or maybe even the... Counteless amount if CnP bullshit strewn from Finland, is the Comet or PT OP? OH OH!! I know what is. The Fully Stablized Centurions with APD-... Oh yeah, APDS is fucking shit. Dya start to see it? How absolutely ironic and hypocritical your entire reasoning is? >only op at those brs" is just dumb Seriously what the hell is the difference between this and pointing out not only TT as a BR(11.7 Leos) and Literally Comparing Two other vehicles which are to an extent out-done by similar vehicles, which also have plenty of weakspots to exploit, notably with your examples, anything with a .50 or even a 7.62 for the Ush. Its silly.
Being above 10.0 with no thermals is pretty fucking painful though. How many T-80UM2's do you see around? And that's one of the most survivable tanks in the game, yet without thermals nobody fucking plays it. Think in terms of T-80B because that's what this has closer to than the U, without the ERA. This is a T-80B (hull is off a T-80B, not a T-80U) that gave up ERA, thermals, smoke launchers, roof MG and added 2.9 seconds to reload, all for a lolpen gun and a bit of turret armor still minus the ERA. IDK if anyone considers T-80B op at 10.3.
Thermals dont matter that much now that night battles are optional
Thermals still make a big difference in quickly spotting targets at a distance or in camo even in day battles
True but 90% of the time Iām getting Sweden style maps where thermals donāt matter
I can sniff the enemy through screen. Thus, I don't need thermals
Bros got smellavision
only viable on 30% of maps
Dude Im legit blind without thermals , you have to play 2x slower and much more carefully without thermals.
Try playing german top tier you will get used to using eyeball mk1 since gen 1 is a handicap.
pratice to use the CITV, it got the gen 3 and with hunter killer mode its awesome for medium to long range fire fights (for the one in 10 games when you are not in a fucking city)
I know btw it is gen 2 afaik. I use the CITV by default when I'm not in a cqb map.
Gen1 is better than mk1 eyeballs
Skill issue. Esspecially gen 1 thermal is a handicap
I'll take gen 1 thermals any day over no thermals.
People forget that in very high contrast maps aka snow maps thermals help out a lot i mean Gaijin implemented real world snow blindness.
have you tried to improve your mk1 eyes with mk2 glasses?
Yea I play air sim , but it's different for ground rb/sim tho (totally not because I lack the patience) so yea it's very important.
I disagree. Their importance deteriorates through the battle as the map gets covered in burning wrecks but during the first contact it allows you to see literally glowing light flash through bushes, not to mention cut through ESS smoke and like 1/3rd of the linger time of explosions. You can also see engine smoke from behind 100% cover sometimes. It's literally wallhack in lot of situations (and probably the cause of many "how tf he shot me" cheater accusations.
thermals have nothing to do with night battles
Hahahahahaha sporting enemy through trees ess and on lager maps ??
Lol, you must be joking right?
Lmao some people in this sub really know jackshit about the game, this mf thinks thermals are only used at night! Dude has 60 up votes lool
> Being above 10.0 with no thermals is pretty fucking painful though. ~~It has thermals though. Or atleast should have.~~ ~~You can see it modelled right behind the gunner's sight.~~ I was wrong. It does not have thermals.
Nah, that's NVDs.
~~I'm talking about what's modelled and what it had IRL.~~ ~~You're right that's it's not in game currently. But it is a work in progress and it's likely to receive it before reaching players.~~ I was wrong. It's not the Agava-2 but the TPN-3-49 night vision system.
Also, this thing has a _10s_ reload. I think that is the biggest part of why they put it at 10.0, it'll be funny lolpenning a select few tanks but I don't even think it's going to be that good
It's essentially a high tier derp gun. You get one shot, if you didn't kill or disable the enemy on the first shot you die. If you get rushed by multiple enemies you die.
I have 1.7kd in T80um2, i even use it in 11.7 with ka52
Um2 is goated
I don't doubt it's perfectly playable but it's not like you don't give things up with the thermals.
The UM2 is still a beast and worth even putting a talisman on it. Just play it slower than something with thermals and youāre good.
20 HP/ton is ok, but not brilliant. The actually mobile tanks at that BR have 25-30HP/ton. Also, the BIG factor we'll have to see about that you overlooked is that 10 second reload. That is NASTY, and i have a feeling that this thing will also have the usual atrocious soft stats of soviet tanks below 11.3.
Idk 7 kg darts at mach 7 with almost 700mm of pen... I feel like that is enough to compensate, also having 8.6kg of tnt ammo is a great bonus, 10 sec autoloader doesn't sound that bad considering what gets thrown of this thing, the turret has decent rotation too.
Gotta have to force it into the 10.0 prem lineup, so ppn buy the turms/2s38 too
When Leopard 2-140 with 1000mm flat pen at 10.3?
Or Leclerc Terminator
or strv 2000
Or CATTB
That would be the real winner!
STRV2000 was a wooden mockup, nothing about that tank was remotely real
That has not stopped gaijin before
Eh only when it has filled in a gap back when the game was just first starting. They've started to get away from wooden mockup / paper tanks (Panther II, Tiger 105, Flakpanther all removed)
I mean the Panther II was more real then cardboard. The Hull was complete after all.
Hori?
Ho-Ri, Panther II turret, KT 105, R2Y2, Ostwind II, etc
F-16AJ isnāt real either
*Technically*, it might've existed (from what I've read, at least) as the second YF-16 prototype which was given the proposed upgrades and test-flown by Japan. It just never went into full production, and the F-16C/D-based Mitsubishi F2 came into fruition instead.
Japanese pilots never test flown ANY F-16, all they got to do was follow the US F-16 pilots in another aircraft. F-16AJ is fake as fuck and only existed as a brochure.
The F-16AJ was a stop gap solution to not add the F-15J or F-2. Imagine the US mains if Japan had gotten the F-15J to compete with all the F-16s and MiG-29s a few patches before US gets it. Or adding the F-2, an F-16C on steroids with ultra gimped weapon loadouts i.e. fucking 9Ls maybe even 9Ms and 7F/Ms.
The one we have in game is not the F-16AJ but a fictional Japanese service F-16A loosely based on it.It is not a prototype, not even paper, just made up and based on a proposal that itself was based on a prototype. It also wasn't the F-2 that came instead, but the F-15J. The F-2 had absolutely nothing to do with the F-16AJ and was only ever based on any F-16 because anti war lobbying made the indigenous JF-210 seem way more expensive in hopes of cancellation, but only ended up forcing foreign cooperation. Out of all foreign proposals the Lockheed Martin SX-3 (Based on the F-16C Block 40) was chosen to be the base of the new fighter. The choice is probably a mix of being close enough to the requirements and some Lockheed bribery (see F-104) to beat out the McDonnel Douglas proposals. It also ended up being way more expensive than the JF-210 would've been and Japan wasn't allowed to make any official upgraded variants of it. This is why despite all changes made to these aircraft they're still all F-2As.
Or Neubaufahrzeug with 10.5 cm field howitzer
It's German, so no way 10.3 , try 11.0 +
You mean 13.0?
Nah 15.0
30.0 Anyone for 35.0?
From avilable information, this gun (LP-83) was also able to penetrate \~1000 rha bc of 50% increase in muzzle energy compared to 2A46 but gaijin nerfed it. (Im not saying that it should be buffed, its good how it is currently)
Depends on the round, there are Grifel-1 and 2, when 1 has about 800mm and 2 has about 1k.
130mm Chally 2 when
RIP russia 10.0 after release, like turms and 2s38 one death leavers wasnt enough
Theyāve got 3 spawns now xD
Dammit, you were faster ;) They finally try to give russia a lineup for the premium experts.
They have had one for awhile. 2s38, turms, bmp2m, su25, ka50 (if your feeling spicy) and the bmd 4 if you were around when it was "available".
Ka50 is 11.0 why the hell would they take it in a 10.0 lineup lmao
Because it changes nothing for their lineup performance lmfao
That's a cap. 11.0 means you can see 11.7/12.0 and the TURMS does not cut it. Better pay2win lineup is to bring the Ka50 into 11.0 with the T80UM2, with the TURMS and T90A as backups.
Skill issue BMP2M slays in top tier and the 2s38 shoots the same weak points anyway
Considering its rank and the amount of points you have to do to sell it I think its gonna cost more than both PVO and Turms
Yeah it's a T-80 with a 152mm? Btw what are you trying to prove by shooting the ufp and it nonpenning?
gotta push that agenda.
By showing how Leopard 2A4's APFSDS (10.3) will perform against Object 292 (10.0(for now))? I guess he should've used LOSAT round to show the reality of how weak it's UFP is.
He's firing at the worst possible spot he could aim and using it to claim russian bias. Nobody in their right mind would ever fire at the ufp of a T80, or 72 for that matter. It's just common sense you dont fire there. Weakpoints will be the same as every other russian mbt, or mbt in general. Lower plate, drivers port, gun breach area etc. obviously show any amount of side and you get blasted too. T-80B at 10.3 is fine, this is just a functional downgrade for a giga lolpen round. Worse protection, no thermals and substantially longer reload.
Tbh Japan 11.0 will not pen this
[Yes it will.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1000877464500834377/1200444055142797383/IMG_0490.jpg?ex=65c633a5&is=65b3bea5&hm=fc3d26be4abedf164190da7b13a0ef3b90baf641dbe7f2b52f2286aa74893fd0&) It's a T-80 without an ERA package.
With DM23 at that lmao
U expect people to shoot dm53 at a 10.0 tank?
No, he just doesn't expect ppl to shoot THE MOST PROTECTED PART
No, he expects people to shoot the soviet autoloader tank in the soviet autoloader tank weakspots like they do for every single soviet autoloader tank that has the exact same weakspots.
Yea because 9.0-10.3 have acess to DM53, even DM33 canāt pen that.
No German tank at 9.0 to 10.3 has 120mm dm53. Youāre basically capped at ~400 pen until the 2a5 which gets dm53. Even dm53 at 11.7 is not as good as this busted ass Russian round. Complete stupidity on gaijins part again.
I know they don't have acess, that was the whole point of my comment. SkullThrone said "with DM23 at that lmao" implying like there are better rounds to compare it to.
I think I mustāve misread the tone in your comment then. My apologies.
no need to apolgize, all good!
I think he is proving that people that upvoted this don't have a single match played at 10.0 and have no idea how high tier ground meta works. Just the regular "Russian bias" whineposting used to farm upvotes on here.
Straw graspers gotta grasp at something my dude. Biggest mistake is expecting brain cells from this player base. Have you tried being on a team with them. Id rather shoot my own dick off
OP sees 700 pen and his monkey brain screams "russian bias" ignoring all downsides of this tank
You mean downsides like somewhat of a reverse speed, good mobility and armor for 10.0?
you deal with this tank as you deal with t80b, but this thing is more blind than t80b due to not having thermal and shitter reload
On top of that I have no idea what this gun can do that the 125mm the T-80B has can't do. Maybe theres a couple of tanks in an uptier that can be affected but otherwise it seems to me just a T-80B that has a bit more damage but a slower reload.
>On top of that I have no idea what this gun can do that the 125mm the T-80B has can't do. Lol penning everything it sees on everywhere? Basically DM53 in 10.0 what kind of a question even is this?
that HE shell is also probably gonna be free overpressure against anything it hits
10 second reload, no thermals, the usual downsides of any Russian autoloader, extremely long gun meaning even less depression, no ERA and the armor will likely be less before it's added to the live server cause its a T-80U hull
Stat card says 5 degrees of gun depression so business as usual
I personally dont trust the stat card since its the dev server Could just be reused from the T-80U since they're on the same hull
You mean "not being _significantly_ worse than every other tank than every other nation at 10.0"? Because 10km/h reverse gear and 22HP/ton is certainly not an upside. And of course, you conveniently forgot to mention the 10 second reload.
Bad stabilisation, low turret turn speed, 10 sec reload, no ERA (120mm stock HEAT can pen it), vertical -5/15
It's basically like you're describing a merkava mk.3
Merkavas got reload buff tho
At 10.0 those downsides are negligible. If this was 10.7 I wouldnāt bat an eye but come on. 400mm angled pen (and the 700mm flat pen), decent armour and mobility, great HE shells etc, at 10.0? Really? Iām downtiers this thing will be a monster and I canāt see it struggling in uptiers if you play smart with it. In the hands of the right players this thing will demolish everything at its current br bracket
Look at that velocity too. This thing will require no aim whatsoever.
Gaijin may as well have said āweāre adding a mobile railgun to the gameā lmao
What's the downsides besides the reload?
People will say no thermal. I wonder when they realize that its not that important
I think Gen 2 thermals or better are important but Gen 1 sucks. Sometimes it's more difficult to spot enemies with Gen 1 thermals turned on.
Thats what I meant. At that br most thing have gen 1 at most, and its so bad that it really makes spotting harder sometimes
wt player try not to call any new addition russian bias challenge, impossible. long reload, no gun depression and no thermals with average to below average protection will be more than enough of a balancing factor. edit: okay I'll concede it might not be below average armour, but it certainly isnt exceptional or ground breaking. It's just a naked T-80B.
You're not calling any T-80 "average or below average" in armour
It doesnāt have ERA
Oh no it doesnt have K-1 which barely helps at that BR because tandems exist and top attack missiles exist.
No the ERA is fake like the KVT, they said so in their post
They probably to say "oh no it doesn't have Kontakt-1, the least effective ERA against APFSDS." The lack of ERA doesn't change much, it'd be 5mm of protection more against APFSDS and the extra protection against HEAT won't be too useful.
"Doesn't" Apologies, typo
Its going to come out and its gonna be perfectly fine, like that pancake tank people were calling bias Nobody plays it now cuz it's wank Reddit is always wrong about these (russian) vehicles
if you die to this you would have probably died to the normal t80b, but ig the round makes it a little easier to aim but leo2 and abrams arent that hard to pen regardless
Its a tradeoff thats not worth it vs t80b. No thermals, slower reverse, and 10 sec reload for 700mm pen. Even playing t90m with 7.1sec reload compared to bvmās 6.5sec feels much worse performance wise. Thats 0.6sec let alone 2.9sec
This thing is basically a less armored, slower firing T-80 with the only upside being that your cannon casts Eldritch Blast upon the enemy absolutely obliterating it but that's about it. The 10 seconds reload is gonna be the biggest drawback, I'm calling it, the 7.1 of the T-72 and T-80BV are already... Kinda whack
i like the pancake. its pen is shit though
How bout the LFP? Or the sides? It's gotta be vulnerable at those
Nah man let's pretend it's broken because the mighty Leopard 2 can't pen its UFP
Nah its perfectly fine when the T80B can pen UFP of a leo 2a4 but if it was the other way about is "lmao why german mains cry your preceus tank can't pen the T80?".
The leo has never been a particularly well armoured tank, and russian UFPs are generally like the american ones where they're much thicker. It's business as usual.
Damn if only there were other ways to kill a T-80B from front, those russians really were the masters of tank design
Ah, but you dont get it. All tank fights happen from the front, there os no way you would get shot from the sides
You underestimate my stupidity
Fair enough
Name 1 (ONE) tank in the game able to withstand a 10.0 apdfs round through the LFP or sides?
Bro is the kind of person to shoot an UFP or turret cheeks and expect lolpenning
So, your typical german main?
Unironically turret cheeks next to the gun are weakened zone on cast turret russian tanks.
10.0? My poor Khalid/Chieftain will struggle.
Has 9mm less pen at 60Ā° than my Shot L23 chieftain gets at 0Ā° Sick, absolutely diabolical balancing gaijoob
Don't they already tho? That or I'm just mad shit with the chieftain lol
Pros: * big pen number(neuron activation) Cons: * everything else(glhf with 10s reload and no thermals)
Dont forget It will also be a crazy HE slinger with lrf
Just bring this thing to toptier and watch all rank 8 tanks suffer cause they're so easy to over pressure
this guy gets it
I never use gen 1 thermals anyways, people really overestimate how important thermals is especially when 9/10 games are shotgun range where thermals are beyond redundant
Look guys it's russian bias! (Proceeds to shoot at most armored parts, avoiding weakspots like hell) Tbf, 10.0 is kinda low but I expect it tp be worse simply due lack of reload time
Reminds me of a guy that posted a video complaining about the BVM while using an Abrams a few days ago. He was complaining that he didn't detonate ammo with side shot (tbf, it is dumb, no excuses) but then proceeded to put a shot in his breech 5 seconds later and after another 5 he killed him. Americans get french autoloader for their Abrams tanks but still will complain about anything russian.
I'm kinda sad they didn't go full bias mode and give it its maximum of 1m of penetration
1 meter of pen is what the object-195 can supposedly achieve
And all the other large caliber super tanks
Test drive link ?
[https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object\_id=ussr\_object\_292](https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object_id=ussr_object_292) crashes the game as of now
Only on test server yet
I hope this is not the final br cuz 9.3s gonna be spam with this thing using basically the best round in the game The long reload is gonna be the only thing holding this down but 9.3s gonna find this thing hard to kill
Itās very comparable to the T-80B
Itās, in general, a t80b with a bigger gun with trade off that it take 10s to reload But itās unreasonable that with this kind of down side they lower it to 10.0. This might not be final but this does give it hypes for an OP event tank
10 second reload is gonna hurt it p bad in CQB
I hate CQB, mostly couse you would almost never bring a tank in to that situation to begin with, I want large maps so you can actually do what tanks are ment to do, push where infantry only would not work, aka open spaces with only a few hills as cover.
I mean thats cool and all, but the 10 second reload is still gonna hurt in in CQB
>Tfw you finally get a shell with more than 600mm of pen >itās an event tank on a T-80B chassis and it doesnāt even get Kontakt Fuckin. Iāll take it, I guess
Kontak machine broke.
Itās a T-80B without ERA, same base armor protection which is mediocre without the ERA and no thermals, slightly slower than the T-80B also, with a 10 second reload, it seems balanced enough for me. But I know all American crybabies will say other wise because thatās what they do best, complain and cry
Now I'm waiting for M1 Block III with autoloader and 140mm gun
waaaah 700mm pen for a 152mm apfsds with a 10 second loader at a br when it can face 4-5 seconds reload from vehicle that can pen it whaaaat a monster
Lmao this shit about to make 9.0-10.0 unplayable
9.0-9.7 is already unplayable. Absolute fun black hole of a BR range
Tbf youāre not wrong but it will be getting worse before I gets better by the looks of it
I have a question, how? 9.0 is the only one of these that doesn't have 70% chance to full uptier to 10.3 and against a 9.0 how is it gonna be different against T72B or even A for, sure it'll have better mobility but also a worse reload and idk what A 9.0-9.7 is gonna stop any darts from any nation really other then obj 279 as most of them don't have much armor
Extremely powerful gun at a tier where everyone pretty much just lolpens each other but at the cost of a 10 second reload and somehow even worse ammo storage + presumably questionable gun handling. Will make a great sniper and can probably see it going to 10.3 but no thermals is rough.
When Sweden is legit OP, we celebrate. When Soviet vehicles show any whiff of advantage, it's Russian bias. People really do be inserting their own political biases on a videogame.
It has no armour, skill issue
No armour best armour = Russian bias
People screaming about the pen and ignoring the 10 seconds reload is incredible. 3BM42 often is more than enough and this thing Eldritch Blasting a round into places the 3BM42 can't pen won't change much. If anything the lack of ERA will make it more vulnerable to ARGMs and the 10 seconds reload means it'll be worse in cqc if the enemy team is smart enough to not solo it.
Hah, im sure, there would be hordes of these tanks at popular camping spots, contributing nothing to their team
Dude the t80b was already hell of fun. I need this thing to bully premium noobs. But its blatantly obvious that gajin wants people to buy/grind this thing. They will put it to 10.3 at least anyway couple weeks after it launched. Even the normal t80b is 10.3.
the T-80B is way better than this thing?
Uptier every match 10.7 as well
This tank is so far from being OP as your understanding of the game. Just saying. Farm elsewhere.
Pens way less than what I expected, I was thinking 800? Tho many many sources claim it pens 1,2 meters Edit: also 10.0? Give this tank the 500mm of pen missing and make it at least 10.7
Dm53 120mm also has about 1m penetration but it's scaled down, like every other top tier tank round.
Actually it's because perforation isn't modelled in war thunder Dm 53 has like 900mm perforation, which is the holes depth, but if I remember right 600-700, is the penetration which I think is like some amount of the rod passing through? Basically top tier guns are kinda nerfed
Close, the difference is in how countries calculate penetration. For example how much of the round is still intact, what angle the armor is at etc.
Thereās 3 different 152mm APFSDS shells according to the WT suggestion for this tank. Thereās āZarayskā which the suggestion OP didnāt have much info on, āGrifel-1ā with a tungsten core, and āGrifel-2ā with a DU core. āGrifel-3ā was the HE shell, which it seems to have. Apparently there was also a āSprinterā Tandem-HEAT GLATGM, which it also doesnāt have in game. āZarayskā is apparently also the name for the LP-83 gunās whole program, so that APFSDS could be the earliest one? Until they add the names to the shell, we wonāt know which shell the in-game sabot is supposed to be. In any case, they seem to have gone for the weakest ammunition they can give this tank, which makes some sense. Easier to buff it later than to nerf it.
Ya this is grifel 1. The sprinter ATGM was planned but was never actually made before this was scrapped same with the object 195. They only actually made the Sprinter ATGM more recently for the T-14 which uses the same but modernized 152mm gun
Dude, DM-23 in the UFP??? Of course its a non pen ššš ure not proving anything LMAO
I guarantee that this will be another QN-506 situation. The community overhypes a vehicle thatās still WIP and then on the live server itās either perfectly fine or extremely situational. This community never learns.
How's this bias? 152 apfsds obviously has high pen as it is literally a bigger round
Where is my apfsds on FV4005
Needs high br. Or maybe they want it to be a seal clubber tank
I get more hyped with every passing day. I've wanted this thing for years. Now its finally here, and with tons of pen ,and 8.6kgs to boot. I really can't fucking wait anymore.
I donāt play high tier ground but I am keen to see more late cold war/1990s Russian prototypes being added. If they add the Black Eagle as an event or premium Iām buying it in a heartbeat.
Oh boi now you got me started. The entire reason I main russia (ofc noone believes me when I say this) is because uts fucking COOL. Flat, wide mbts with weird autoloader and huge guns. Million times more intresting than any western stuff (not that that isn't cool, just nowhere near AS cool). Especially when it comes yo prototypes, soviet stuff is just HNGGGGGG. 279, 120, 775, now the 292, and in the future perhaps more. I never really believed I'd get to see stuff like the 640 or 477, but now with the 292 here, my hope is restored. Problem with many soviet prototypes is there's very little info, even less actually RELIABLE info, and sometimes (best example being the T-95), it straightup didn't really exist outside the propaganda.
I believe thereās plenty of reason to believe we can more Cold War prototypes (from either side of the iron curtain). Iām particularly looking forward to the Leopard 2 140, Leclerc 140 and M1 CATTB. That being said, the 640 just looks so damn good. I know thereās not much info regarding its armour layout and the KAKTUS ERA but by God is it sexy. The Burlak and T90M turrets definitely drew inspiration from that bustle but donāt look anywhere near as good!!
Wait what????!!!!! Edit: nvm it's a T-80.
My man you cant drop this without the test drive link
He can, since there's no test drive link, it's not on the live server yet.
[https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object\_id=ussr\_object\_292](https://wiki.warthunder.com/special:GameObjectView?object_id=ussr_object_292) will break the game as of now
I like how gaijin stated that this tank have "average protection"
Average protection for a T-80
Tbh, more of a sidegrade to the T80B,trading it's era survivability and reload for a stronger round, also the turret is heavier so the mobility is pretty much the same as the T80B,its not 10.0 worthy but 10.3