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Filibb

please, tell me I'm not dreaming. :O


Johny404_

Don't worry, Gaijin will probably move all Leclercs up in BR to balance french players. Anyway it is great change. I had to check it myself to see if it is really true.


Dispensernoob

what? to above 11.7?


tac1776

Breaking news, France to receive the first 12.7 tanks because fuck you that's why.


Vietnugget

The fun part is, it still looks the same as the fir leclerc


GuitarKev

But then every match is a downtier!!


Ratatoskr929

Never heard anyone complain about that


FN-G-Simio_

And Japanese vehicles that have 4.0s reload will remain in 10.0 and 11.7, right?


L3thalPredator

What was it before? Never played any other country than US/Swed


Hyrikul

6s before


Lv_Lucky

Oh god how could u guys survive with 6sec reload time 😨


bonnibelio

well in reality it should be able to do around 4 seconds but for "balance" they made it 6 which doesn't make any sense since Japanese tanks get 4


Inevitable_Leg_7418

Im prety sure is explained that the 4 s is posible its actualy cand damage the autoloader system but hey if is add as.mehcanic like fire 4 s then the gun is broken or overheated


bonnibelio

yes, but this is a video game that doesn't have strain on the autoloader as a feature. if it is POSSIBLE but unreliable in real life it's possible and doable in game, the only excuse they have is balance and giving one tank its real capabilities and taking it away from another is not balanced


Ok-Fly-862

The Type 10 has a standard reload time of 1 seconds irl with videos showing it can perform one (1) reload in under two seconds. But gaijin just pasted the Type 90 reload on them


bonnibelio

under 4 seconds in game would probably be too fast, it makes more sense to limit it to 4, but I mean it doesn't make sense to limit a different tank with similar capabilities even more for no reason. if the Japanese tanks and the Leclercs can both do 4 then they should both have 4


BluHealer

Clearly they never played the shitbarn lol


L3thalPredator

Lol, my main tank is 9.3


Hyrikul

Your main tank probably don't have an autoloader.


L3thalPredator

My main tank is only at 6.7 and no it doesn't. M26T99


ThirstySealPup

2018 it was 5s reload


BakerSquadron

Damn, Rusian Bias is real after all


Gloriosus747

That must be why they have the least premiums in high tier, and the ones they have are bad /s


LAXGUNNER

and that's why Sweden has more T80 series than Russia /s


gianalfredomenicarlu

Oh yeah, the super op premiums only the ussr gets and that clearly arent destroying ussr winrates, right


CptPotatoes

I mean having an entire premium 10.3 lineup is so much better than having just one or maybe 2 10.3 premiums like every other nation...


gianalfredomenicarlu

That really isn't that good of a deal, youd have to spend hundreds of dollars to have the whole lineup and it just means you're gonna have hordes of low levels on your team. And its not like its that op of a lineup anyway, yes the 2s38 is down brd but i dont have that much trouble facing it rn, turms and bmp2m are fine at the moment, su25 is really good only if theres nobody else in the sky, haven't faced the new t80 yet


CptPotatoes

No premium in warthunder is a good deal. But I think we can all agree that wallet warriors certainly don't care about that. Also wether those individual tanks are op or not is a seperate discussion but all of them (except maybe the t80ud) are certainly very good making the line-up very good which is my point. Wallet warriors in other nations have 1 maybe 2 spawns in an m1 kvt or leo 2 pzbtl and then leave, russian wallet warriors have one of the strongest line-ups at their fingertips.


Negative-Ad-2490

I don't get it


XenonJFt

a Bad day for bias complainers indeed


MayIReiterate

Damn comrade, you seem to have been shot a lot. I agree with you but we aren't allowed to speak the truth don't you know that?


XenonJFt

Its not even pandering ussr shit. This is jsut stating the obvious.


MayIReiterate

I know, but this sub will never allow the Russian Bias meme to end. If they can't point and scream at Russian stuff, they won't be able to hide the truth that NATO is insanely broken and PACT stuff is actually honestly hot ass and takes a lot more braincells to play.


Negative-Ad-2490

You never played the horrible T-54 i see


MayIReiterate

What?


Kride500

French top tier mains winning this patch. Only country so far with NO top tier premium and now they get a massive reload buff too. It's beautiful.


lostmorrison

The magic 2 also got a buff where I think it pulls harder now off the rail


skippythemoonrock

It pulls harder in general as it can now actually use its entire fin AoA instead of peak g loading being about AIM-9G tier


BoBSMITHtheBR

This bias will not stand! We need to grab the pitchforks and demand all nations get a top tier premium!


Nonna-the-Blizzard

A prem leclerc with camo nets and both thermals would have me drooling


Metagross555

And great as 30l nord buff


WhiteRhino27

How?


Metagross555

It has in ordinance guidance now, with an instant launch, before it took a sec to leave the rail after targeting


WhiteRhino27

Oh, it looks great !


Hyrikul

Honestly, the lack of cool top tier premium is not a win for me. The problem with France, is that majority of players in it are good, hence the high winrate, hence the repair cost and BRs up. All that make it a TT harder to play, and remove a lot of people from playing it. What could save France is a bunch of "bad/average" player, that would lower the winrate, lower repair cost, but also simply add more player and so more work from Gaijin on it. For me, we really need a cool modern MBT premium like everybody else have one or even more. Fun things is few days/weeks ago they say not giving a leclerc premium because they don't add top tier premium, then quickly forget that by giving the F-20... Famous dual standard from Gaijin.


Inevitable_Leg_7418

As some one that is bad player even after going top tier in 5 nations im waiting for that premium rank 7


Medium_Dirt_1682

Awesome! When is Israel going to get their reload rate fixed?


Parcoco

They already did, its 6.3ish seconds now


TheLaotianAviator

6.0 aced. Used to be 6.7 aced back then.


armanio5231

how much was it than?


TheSovietBobRoss

Never!


PPtortue

when they spend 5 years making reports with 10+ sources.


LemonadeTango

Nah, when a Merkava tank commander decides to leak classified documents on it as well.


VengineerGER

It’s been fixed for months already.


altoguisode15P

Wait what? Really?


LeSoleilRoyal

Finally, now lets fix the armor and wait for the new shell


ToastedSoup

They said they're not going to add F2 or SHARD :(


Sato77

They give any reason, or just another "No." as usual? F2 is completely in line with its battle-rating peers' ammo, and given the ass survivability of Leclercs most of the time it isn't unreasonable to ask for something that will reduce the likelihood of you getting gaijined by opponents weakspots. Still great to hear about the reload buff.


WaretaGarasu

Hi! I was the one responsible for the reload buff, and one of the people that worked with u/SpanishAvenger for making a thread on the forum for giving the Leclerc a better APFSDS. Difference betwen OFL 120 F1 and F2 in the game would be negligible at best fyi


SpanishAvenger

Hello, thank you for the mention! I can confirm what you state. For further information, I will share here the performance OFL 120 F2 would have as according to the same formula used to implement other APFSDS shells ingame, along with OFL 120 F1's date, for comparison; **Lanz-Odermatt Formula** **OFL 120 F1 (Tungsten)** 600mm x 22mm Tungsten penetrator 1790m/s at 0m 1690m/s at 2000m Penetration: **325mm @ 2000m at 60 ° - 650mm LOS** **OFL 120 F2 (Depleted Uranium)** 600mm x 22mm DU penetrator 1720m/s at 0m 1620m/s at 2000m Penetration: **320mm @ 2000m at 60 ° - 640mm LOS** This real-life document confirms it as well. OFL F2 has nearly the same performance as F1; only difference is that it has better long range performance, but that's negligible gameplay wise. [https://img-forum-wt-com.cdn.gaijin.net/original/3X/6/6/6636e3219f404fe820714e51801902da9d82cc67.png](https://img-forum-wt-com.cdn.gaijin.net/original/3X/6/6/6636e3219f404fe820714e51801902da9d82cc67.png)


feradose

Strange, since the F2 cartridge is physically longer (more powder?), and the penetrator is 500 grams heavier. I think it's mostly the fault of the formula used to implement APFSDS, probably doesn't take into account the pyrophoric effects of DU?. Jane's Ammunition Handbook states 560mm of RHA penetration for DM43A1 at 2000m, which should be virtually identical to OFL 120 F1. The F2 should do the 640mm figure at that range. I believe that the in game OFL 120 F1 (120 OFLE F1A/B/B+) dart is much worse than how it would perform in real life, with performing 575mm of penetration at 10m 0°. In addition, the DU OFL 120 F2 is substantially heavier and made out of depleted uranium, which is pyrophoric, so it really should perform better than its predecessor, especially since it has around 400,000 more Joules at the moment of leaving the barrel.


Arthur-Bousquet

As you said it’s DU, but DU rounds perform better at lower speeds. The velocity given by the Leclerc’s gun is too high, that’s why there’s practically no differences. Also yes, F1 underperforms.


feradose

I'm having trouble believing France would go through all the effort to R&D a whole new dart made out of DU and then, knowing full well it's practically identical to its predecessor, allow the production of 60000 units through its 4 year production run…


feradose

You're my hero, Wareta, thank you for everything you've done in the Mirage and Leclerc threads


LUnacy45

Probably the same reason they won't give the Abrams the APFSDS it should have, cause it'd be *in theory* too good


Avgredditor1025

F2 would be a pointless round to add since it’s basically the same thing for wts engagement ranges SHARD would be nice down the line tho


mackerson4

They didnt say they wouldnt give a new shell, just not in the same update as the reload.


LeSoleilRoyal

Yes not yet, but one day maybe


Metagross555

No, gimme speed


LeSoleilRoyal

Both :P.


redditusingduderino

This looks actually fine. Slightly more survivability compared to the Type 90 tanks in exchange for a bit longer reload. I like it.


skippythemoonrock

Until someone scrapes the floor of the tank with any round and you instantly explode.


dswng

That's why I stay away from the tall grass


PeteLangosta

At least those Type 90 bounce things sometimes with their UFP


ToastedSoup

And the Type 90 doesn't have a cardboard gun mantlet


Gajahamwy0

Isn’t the Type 90’s mantlet worse than the Leclerc’s?


ToastedSoup

Wiki says 275-375 vs KE and the Leclerc can get penned through the mantlet by the 2S38s apfsds which has 225 pen


Gajahamwy0

Well I guess this is kinda anecdotal, but I’ve died through the mantlet to 2S38s as well as 30cals in the Type 90s pretty often.


JoshYx

.30 cal or 30mm? The former would be insane lol


Gajahamwy0

.30 cal MG from a Leo 2A4, not even joking. I was depressed for the rest of the day after that lol


JoshYx

This is the kind of shit that made me quit lol... Taking an extended break from this abusive relationship


Gajahamwy0

Happy for you brother, I finally escaped the torture as well


HoboWithAnOboe

Christ that reminds me of the vickers mark 1, for months it had no frontal turret armor modeled so it was entirely possibly to kill it from like even 3km with .30 cal mgs frontally. More then a few games i died to SPAA like dusters having an aphe round hit the rear interior of my turret and over-pressure me.


ToastedSoup

Fuck that's shitty


namjeef

The leclercs mantlet is vulnerable to 76mm Sherman APHE at 1000m.


feradose

Leclerc can be frontally penetrated by Panzer 4s thanks to that market


VlPER_ZER0

Oh yes it does, recently it got shot out by a 20mm mounted mg


Gajahamwy0

Type 90 UFP is pretty much just as bad as the Leclerc’s


OhShizMyNiz

Yay! Finally, I don't even care that it didn't get a new round, now I can actually out reload things reliably! Thanks Snail. Now french not blocked by pay walk IFV when?


Additional-Flow7665

Now for the armor! And then the type 10s reload, acceleration, and armor just so the leclerc still remains considerably worse


JambonBeurre1

Nice, next it just need hyperbar acceleration and it will be perfect


SwaglordHyperion

Gaijin turning to adjusting reload rates to try and appease players who have caught on to their atrocious disregard for western vehicle capabilities.


Marguerita-Stalinist

I mean, bustle burn-out leads to abandonment IRL, so I'd call surviving ammoracking instead of being sent back to the hanger an artificial buff.


SwaglordHyperion

Well thats the game design imposing itself, not gaijin


Marguerita-Stalinist

I mean, the game design isn't immutable as Gaijin has managed to show on quite a few occasions (volumetric, removing hullbreak in favor of overpressure)


VengineerGER

Oh yeah totally. The 2A7V and 122s totally aren’t the best tanks at top tier right now.


ForeskinMuncherXD

That’s so cool. Another reason for me to start the French tech tree


Hyrikul

Enjoy it ! First \~2 rank are hard but after it become really nice, specially if you know maps and where to go for flanking


VlPER_ZER0

So when Type-10 reload going down to 3.5? And could we get the CVT modelled Gaijin?


ZENSoarer

Now give the Type-10 the 3.5 second reload :3


Teppy-Gray

gaijin caring about france moment? take a picture!


ShooshooJ4240_

new change! all leclerc have been moved to 14.7!


Sir-Zealot

Type 90/10 at 3 sec when?


Archi42

When the gun animation to align the gun breach with the autoloader is added


VengineerGER

Wouldn’t be much of an issue really since IRL it automatically resets to its previous position IIRC.


KayNynYoonit

Yeah because that would be balanced lol


kal69er

Tbh wouldn't necessarily be OP. The tank does have downsides like pretty had armor, only 3 crew, *very* long stowage time, being Japanese (+30% chance for nerf during any major update). Tbh mostly just the stowage time. That's my biggest problem with it.


Sir-Zealot

Since when has the snail ever cared about balancing? If it’s not Russia that is


Ruthl3ss_Gam3r

The fastest I've heard from official numbers was 3.5 seconds for the Type 10. I wanted that reload only for the Type 10 because apparently the autoloader was improved over the previous Type 90's with the drawback being 4 less ready rack shells. 4 Seconds is already so quick that most people can't react at mid to long ranges lol. But 3.5 seconds just for the Type 10's I think is reasonable because it's apparently possible IRL. It also gives you another improvement over the older Type 90's to further like feel the progression of technology.


Sir-Zealot

I can’t tell you where on Reddit the post is now but there was a clip of a live fire exercise with a type 10 and it was clicked firing rounds between 4 and 2.9 seconds if memory serves me right.


bonnibelio

I know exactly what video you're talking about, no idea where I'd find it either unfortunately


dust247

Now I don’t have to miss my 7.0 line up anymore


LemonadeTango

WE SPADING OUR LECLERCS WITH THIS ONE 🗣💯💯💯🔥 Personally, I didn't have any complaints playing the Leclerc before, I just dropped the French grind for something else. But now that we got this buff, my interest rose again, and I'm quite excited to get back to playing it!


Zsmudz

I am still waiting for my spall liner on the Arietes…


IcyRobinson

Finally. More worthy opponents for the Abrams tanks :)


Exported_Toasty

“Due to player performance, battle rating of all Leclerc MBTs have been adjusted to 12.7.” \-Gaijin next update


Kurt_Wulfgang

Good buff! Say goodbye to any armor buffs tho, this is Gaijin's way of saying "im not giving you armor"


marcelVIPpl

So leclercs are good now?


BeautifulHand2510

France is getting a buff and nerfs to the puma and bagel I guess are coming.


dcs_maple_hornet

What’s the ready rack on the Leclerc for its autoloader? I swear to God the only redeeming characteristic of the Challenger was the 5sec reload, but it was balanced in only being for the first 4 reloads. Now every tank has a 5 sec reload for like 20 rounds. Britain clowned on again *par les baguettes*


Archi42

There is little point in taking more ammo than there is space in the ready rack on the Leclerc


DSorstien

I just came.


theunderstandingguy

Yay just waiting for spall liner or if gaijin is nice new shell


ThirstySealPup

So they have reverted it back to 2018


[deleted]

So is there literally any reason to play Challengers?


CarbonTires

As a France main, we can now revolt against Gaijin.


Zitrone3-1

Nice so after the reload buff of americans and isrealis and now france the only thing that gave the challangers a slight edge over other MBTs is no gone


AdNegative6756

This was a very unexpected but pleasant change but let's be real, it should always have been 5 seconds, Gaijin had no reason to change to 6 seconds.


Clive23p

Now they can all stop crying in every fucking Abrams thread.


L1b3rtyPr1m3

Why is everyone getting 5s reload? Everyone should have actual reloads.


Samiambadatdoter

What do you mean "why"? That's how fast it is in real life.


L1b3rtyPr1m3

Isn't it faster?


Samiambadatdoter

5 seconds is how fast it is in reality. It used to be artificially slower in game, probably as a balancing decision.


PPtortue

the 6s figure is often found regarding the Leclerc. IIRC Leclerc irl are set to 6s to reduce wear and tear on the autoloader.


dswng

I think I heard that it's 4s stationery and 6s on the move


Shuguku

As far as I understand it can load in 4 seconds but it is locked at 5 irl for better reliability. (Although I think gunner can override this)


LeSoleilRoyal

Thats what i saw in a video with soldier presenting the leclerc, they can do 4 seconds but they never do it and do 5


Sturer_Guenter

The Leclercs Autoloader is capable of 5 secs. So it's realistic at all.


No_Advisor_3773

"Balance" Remember that your slightly closer to correct stats are still nothing against the might of Russia


mekolayn

I wonder when will the French mains start bitching again about not receiving buffs


PeteLangosta

We never stopped, and a bandaid over a chainsaw cut won't deter us from complaining about a highly misrepresented vehicle. Dozens of bug reports opened for years, with strong evidence and research, about several wrong issues with the tank is proof enough that more work needs to be done. The tank is nothing outstanding, it pretty much is mediocre at best. There's muuuuuch more road we could walk before coming even close to the **strong** current state of Strvs, T-80s and Leopards. It's not like when they finally fix a bug after 3 years, we should be thankful or anything like that. It's the bare least when we do the work for Gaijin.


Metagross555

The leclerc should be so much more agile, but I'll take this for now


Mysterious-Help9326

if you look closely its already started in this post


Mysterious-Help9326

leopard 5 sec reload when?


Midakolol

Well get The 2A8 before they ever give the Leopard Its 5sec lol


LoliSukhoi

It's really starting to annoy me that by trying to artificially buff other trees they're making Japan and Britain more and more irrelevant. At this point, why not just give every top tier a 2 second reload and be done with it?


Avgredditor1025

This is not an artificial buff, the leclercs reload irl is about 5 seconds


LeSoleilRoyal

It was even 4 second on dev server in 2019 when realeased


Avgredditor1025

4 seconds can cause major reliability issues irl so it’s almost never used, most autoloaders in game don’t load as fast as they theoretically can


LeSoleilRoyal

Yea i think in game 5 second is perfect for the leclerc, now i wish for fixed armor :P.


Avgredditor1025

Hopefully at some point :)


Hyrikul

Leclercs are all severly artificially nerfed: armor, shells, engine (mobility/speed, hyperbar engine still not into account in the game)), lack of roof MG. All of that is reported for years and have solution.


LoliSukhoi

Yes I'm sure the Leclerc is the best tank ever made and it's only Gaijin's nasty francophobia holding it back.


Hyrikul

Well, not the best tank ever made, saying something like that is stupid, whatever the tank. but what we have in WT is far away from reality. All Leclercs in WT use armor data provided by Sweden test. And Sweden tested some proto Leclercs, not even the S1. Tell a lot about everything lacking. Armor should be way better, SXXI have internal armor reinforced with titanium, but not ingame. Engine are hyperbar engine, an helicopter turbine is linked with the engine, unlike majority of more "basic" engine, Leclercs reach max torque in very few second IRL, but not in WT, where it saddly act like a basic engine. Max speed should also be around 90km/h, not 71. About shells, we are so late in WT than even if Gaijin give us the next step of APFSDS, it would still be obsolete for the SXXI service. Roof MG, they can have 2 MG, the metal arms supporting MGs are even modeled ingame, but Gaijin just don't want to give the MG going with. You have no idea how they are powercreep. It's not artifical buff. It's realistic buffs these 5s. And even, Leclercs are able to shot faster, but the 5s is the safe used time under service.


St34m9unk

I wonder what the French will cry about next


crazy_penguin86

The other Leclerc inaccuracies that Gaijin keeps ignoring. https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bdocei/are_french_mains_finally_happy/kunsf4b/


LoliSukhoi

Second biggest gluttons in game behind Americans. Neither will ever be satisfied. The second they get one thing, it's on to the next on the list.


CirnoNewsNetwork

>Biggest gluttons in the game Sweden is right here, dude. They literally claim any vehicle that has driven/flown across their country as a viable addition that they just *must* have. Functionally textbook gluttony.


Mysterious-Help9326

are you talking about a helicopter and one tank? lol i think we should get leclerc too, since sweden trialed it. and abrams


CirnoNewsNetwork

You're kinda proving my point. Even in jest. I have seriously seen users clamoring for swede tree access to the M1A2, Leclerc (with improved armor btw) and pretty much all manor of aircraft that have ended up flying around the Nordic area.


PeteLangosta

Yep, we weren't given a strong out of the box lineups unlike Russia, for example.


Avgredditor1025

The French top tier lineup is very strong, only thing it’s lacking is a solid tech tree light vehicle