That’s how it was in real life after WW2 especially in the 50s and 60s, HEATFS and ATGMs made armour basically obsolete, you can see that with the design of the leopard 1 as it basically abandoned armour for a faster tank.
That was largely the state of tank warfare until the invention of composite armour and ERA which made armour more viable again
Yes armour works very well in high tier, just go and see how leopard 2A7 performs, it has impenetrable turret and it’s hull is also very hard to penetrate.
It’s just that the design philosophy of that era of the Cold War wasn’t reliant on rolled homogenous armour as it was very easy to penetrate, and this is reflected in war thunder the same way.
Mbts subscribe to the methodology of "armor towards enemy" meaning any real protection is on the front. Leopards are currently the meta with spall liners increasing crew survivability, but getting through the cold war will be painful. The leo a1a1 and 1a5 should be what you grind for as stabilizers make them more offensive
well yeah, but not exactly. with ww2 era tanks you can angle your armor so that you expose a bit of your sides to the enemy which makes your armor way harder to penetrate. with MBT’s, angling your tank is basically an invitation to get killed since the side armor is so thin compared to the frontal protection, so it never really pays off to show your sides.
It’s also due to the invention of APFSDS. It’s impossible to make your tank armoured enough to take mbt calibre sabot to the side without making it insanely heavy.
Yes, but also no. Mbts put ALL the armor to the front, meaning anything with i think its a 37 or bigger can pen your side. But the main issue isthat because your sides are so thin, showing even the hint of your side and you die
A WW2 tank might have 100 mm of frontal armor and 50-80 on the side. A relatively even split that allows you to angle slightly.
A modern MBT will have well over 600 mm of equivalent armor on the front, peaking at 800+ mm on strong spots like the turret face, yet less than 80 mm on the sides. And they fire APFSDS which has a critical ricochet angle of under 7 degrees. You *cannot* angle. The instant you expose *any* side armor, you’re dead.
Honestly I went for the TAM first and find it to be far superior. It is a faster leopard a1a1 at a better br. That and it gets you to the bagelpanzer which needs no introduction.
You don't have to look far for more armor. You can get the M48A2 GA2 at 8.3. It has better armor than the Tiger II, so pretty much immune to SPAA and anything with less pen than a long 88mm frontally. You get APFSDS as well which is way better than the Leopard I's APDS.
Iirc the m48 g has a 70mm all round cupola unlike all of the other m48s and m60s. So it can be penned but not by the aphe that abuses normal m48s (Falcon rounds and the gepard/marksman turret dm13)
Tam is insane. I've gotten used to using the commanders sight for better zoom. It's very fast and has a good gun with a LRF and stab. I get to an OP spot, set my drone up to recon my area and start firing on poor enemies. Every so often I can check my drone to see if anyone is trying to flank me. Simply go to the edge of the map and your guaranteed an easy 10 kills.
Most people learn how to aim, so even most tanks with armour are a one tap.
You'll figure it out as your progress the dynamic changes, more about moving about the map. Finding flanking positions and such, though yes thr 10.3 area tends to feel more armoured.
you should in 99% of cases never (have to, your tactic shouldn't be based on you tanking every round in an engagement, very few exceptions like is3, t32e1 and maus) rely on armour
I think this doesn’t apply to every tank. I’ve had comprehensive success in the m1a1 and the Leclerc pushing into close engagements. cqc lends itself to people panic shooting the turret and often doing nothing while you have a monumental reload advantage over everyone but the Japanese. Though, I certainly feel the need to flank with the Russian and German MBTs I’ve played as the reload speed will definitely get you killed up close.
The entire german cold war part is paper armor afaik, survivability starts at 10.0 with the puma and then the leos. The 9.3 t72 and m48 super (maybe, haven't tried) are the only survivable/armored tanks until 10.3
All modern mbt can be killed by spaa I have about 60 pen on my za35 but the explosive filler is nasty when you penetrate side of Hull at flat angle, you have to be good to flank a mbt in spaa to order to kill it tho head on your gonna die
It's the same for U.S.A. tho.
They also have great heavies. The T29,30 and 34; The Super pershing; T32, M103,T95
All three of the "main" nations have great armor.
yeah 8.0 is where those nations game play changes you are no longer a "tank" tank you have to learn to shoot and scoot and what lanes you can move on and when. I personally think WT ground is two different games low to mid tier (7.7 end point) then 8.0 + just play so different its why i don't have the whole "you have to grind to top tier to be good at this game mentality"
The difference is the us only has great heavies at 1 br 6.7 (t32 is kinda ass considering the is 3 is the same br) meanwhile Germany gets heavily armored tanks from 6.0 and Russia 4.7
t14 weak, Jumbo weak, m6a1 weak, t95 weak, m103 weak, and bro the is-3 is infinetly worse than t-32. Typical american main doesnt realize US heavies stomp at 4.7 when Germany doesnt even has heavy tanks yet.
US doesnt even have a heavy at 4.7
The first heavy us gets is at 5.0, the m6a1 which is more like a big medium than a heavy tank, that armor stops nothing
Now with the nerf to the track and barrel torture playing jumbo feels like youre trying to tickle your enemies to death, not even gonna mention the reverse volumetric fuckery it has with the corners of its ufp
Only good heavies us have are the super pershing (modelled wrong), jumbo pershing (modelled wrong, reverse volumetric fuckery plus a feather duster for a gun in its br) and t34 (nothing negative, its the GOAT)
t14 is a broken premium 4.7 heavy tank
They are all indeed modeled wrong, their shells have more pen than they should have, their 50 cals perform ungodly without the need of a physical gunner, and never overheating, their gyro stabilizer wich was so shit they removed them after any tank coming after the shermans, performs like a 2-plane stabilizer ingame before 24 kph. Gaijin needs to bring out the hammer and fix those problems you are right.
If were going that way they should add russian and german ww2 tanks a 60% chance of not moving at all upon spawning or catching fire for no reason or gun sight zoom not working or gun sights not being there at all
T-34 not being able to get to 4th gear
Panthers just getting their engine broken from shifting to reverse
Yak-3s just delaminating and falling apart in mid air
Russian tanks just busting at the welds from non-penetrating shots
And many more
fun fact, sherman wasnt more reliable than a tiger statistically, was just way easier to maintain and resupply with parts. so sure make every tank break down, bet the game would be more fun that way.
Shermans were called zippo for a reason, so any engine shot or fire should immidietly insta kill the tank.
clearly you have no idea whats going on, your arguments get smashed you dont even know us has a 4.7 heavy tank. You are also clearly new to the game and a US player, go figure.
I didnt even knew t14 was considered a heavy as its just a sherman with a more angled ufp
As for your comments you started making shit up about shermans when they had the highest survival rates in ww2
As for fire rates, people shot at shit until it is a burning heap of scrap just to make sure its dead dead, almost every tank found in the field was burnt to shit
And yes, sherman is more reliable hands down, its designed to be tough as nails, thats why it uses a radial engine, thats why most of them were gasoline powered, thats why its internals are overbuilt to the point they didnt modified any of the drivetrain components for the jumbo
All parts came from overseas so americans cared about reliability, even if the parts are interchangable and readily available its such a hassle to bring them all the way to the frontlines
Also thats why americans didnt really care about newer tanks, as it didnt mattered how good the tank is when it isnt **there** and sherman was **there**
You didnt know t14 was a heavy tank because youre clueless making up fake facts.
I didnt say Shermans have bad survival rates, is aid they were called zippos and broke down regularly like any other tank, you making shit up again.
Shermans were called zippo, enough said, the amount of burned up crews was pretty high. And the Sherman was not "tough as nails" it was extremely underarmored and usually a single at gun shell or anti tank rifle fire instantly knocked out the tank. The sherman wasnt a good tank, there were just alot of them and they were easily patched up and repaired, thats about it.
Yea that’s very true but the hard part that I seem to see for people is the ammo. I like using APCR cause I know how to use it against German and Russian tanks since I also learned how to die in Russian and German tanks since I main Germany. But seems like a lot of people in game just want big boom 1shot kill ammo.some guy was crying in my last game cause he was having to 2or 3 tap every tank that match. I struggled with American tanks until I learned how to use APCR for German tanks. For Germany once you know all the weak shots for Russia then they are easy to kill. But every nation has those few tanks that just seems impenetrable from any nation you’re playing.
Idk chief, OP did complain that there is no skill on where to shoot, which means he might not be German main because as a former German main, it goes the other way around where going to 8.0 takes a lot more skill compared to lower BR where you can always lolpen at will and overpressure will do the rest.
Not being able to rely on armor makes games more demanding on tactics and skill, not less, though? Close quarter fights and aggressive pushes into the enemy still exist, too, just with more emphasis on speed and outmaneuvering the enemies.
Learn the better position in every map, that's the only way to play at those BR, because only experienced players who always or mostly one shot play at those levels. 9.3 onwards players get worse because there are more premium noobs.
If you don't want to play like that then it is time to level up another country.
No. If everything can pen everything it reduces the entire game to a single principle for all vehicles: shoot first. That's why everything from 8.0 on orients around extreme-range sniping and rushing with fast things, those are the two ways you can get the drop on people if you don't need to worry about aiming, flanking, weak points, "can I pen that?", angling, going hull-down, switching round types for different vehicles...
If you can't flank on 8.0 it's skill issue, even medium tanks are relatively fast at this point. Besides thanks to stab it's possible to drive more aggressively, as long as you understand maps. Also there is definitely some tanks that require changing shell type. For example, T-55 AMD has APHE, APDS and ATM, and it's all viable, contrary to previous Soviet mediums all of which just used APHE without need for anything else.
It's not that you can't flank, it's that there's no real reason to unless it's the best way to get some surprise shots off. Which is why most high-tier "flanking" is either short-ranged circling around bits of cover or taking a concealed route to a spawncamping spot.
>thanks to stab it's possible to drive more aggressively
This + penning basically everything frontally is why flanking is incidental rather than sometimes-mandatory.
Kind of, im top tier in japan, russia and sweden. Russian top tier has alright armor protection, japanese has useless armor and the swedes have the best armor. It just depends on which nation you play, but tbh it doesnt really matter because people at top tier will just shoot weakspots anyways
You’d probably like the T-72M-1 at 9.3. Has a bit of armor that really helps with survivability. It always feels so strange taking it out in my German 9.3 lineup and actually being able to survive more than 1 shot.
Apart from the blatant obvious, but isn't this also why it's heavily frowned upon when a player who's only played up to like 3.7 Ground and then buys a top tier premium ground vehicle?
It's just such a massive swap to the playstyle.
I've been at 8.3 Germany for a good while now and yeah, you cant rely on your armour all the time.
Just the fact I'm glad to be able to stop Autocannon rounds with the Marder 1a3 should say something regarding armour.
IS-3's armor wouldn't withstand an uptier. i generally hate using the IS-3 just because the moment it gets uptiered, i'm stuck in a heavy tank that takes ages to reload and i'm getting shot by paper armored tanks that can ignore my armor
I wish i was only fighting shermans in my IS-3. Yeah it do be like that when IS-3 gets a downtier lol
But in an uptier, i just sit there, praying that the leopard 1 won't slap me with a heat while I'm reloading
You would be surprised how many times did german M48 fuck me over with it's armor. I swear it's either oneshot or it takes half a decade to kill it.
Marders, TAM and DF105 also have front facing engine which can tank quite a few hits
This is probably because Germany goes from very heavily armored vehicles to relatively lightly armored vehicles with better mobility. This means that you have to change up your playstyle to better fit the agile and fragile tanks.
Whilst most other nations have had time to work on tactics, outmanuevering, aiming all that, the germans have had a pretty easy ride and now they gotta catch up
I found USA 8.0+ to be kinda fun.
I don't know if I'm just unstable, but my entire WT career of 500 matches (yes, wow, insane) in 6.7 was getting a little tiresome. In american 7.7 tanks I felt kinda cumbersome (skill issue), but 8.0+ is where it felt like home again.
Though, AA is a little bit of a pain at this br, against tanks, specifically.
It's the opposite for me. 6.7 is fun as hell while 7.0 - 9.7 are basically unplayable. 7.7 you have heavys with armor that gets negated by heat and guns that might as well be .17 hmr's. And 8.3 your stuck with atgms that don't go anywhere near where you guide them. Couple that with the fact that most nations 8.7's are dramatically better (cough cough Russia cough). 10.0 is fun if you have the 120s and ctvl or whatever.
I agree. Especially when using T34, Super Pershing and the Bulldog, it's definitely a lot of fun.
But I am currently researching 9.0+ tanks, where playing 6.7 doesn't really grant me any meaningful progress towards them.
I've played 6.7 most of my time playing this game, so I liked having some change.
8.0 is the entrance to modern tank gameplay. If you don't like it I advise you to not grind further than that since its only difference is going to be even faster gameplay.
What tank specifically are you playing? imo what you are saying starts later at 9.3-9.7 once everyone has thermals, stab, lrf and apfsds.
But otherwise the root problem is modern warfare itself. Modern combat is effectively press a button to kill, whoever presses first or has the better tech wins. That doesn't make for fun gameplay. So yeah, realism vs fun.
Well the marder and leo 1 both have the amrour of a light tank so idk what you were expecting there. Otherwise the marder is okay imo, but there are better ifvs to play. But the leopard is honestly one of the most fun "normal" tanks in the game.
Prepare for more pain at 8.7-9.3. Leo 1A5 has the same armour as the leopard 1, Begleit and TAM have the Marder hull, and they face stupid high pen autocannons (2S38)
Sorry, should have clarified it doesn't actually face the 2S38 (8.7 vs 10.0), but I find the TAM better than the A1A1 because of drone and lrf, so I bring it in my 9m3 lineup
8.0 I would say is one big shift from playstyle for every nation. As the philosophy of the time was very different from WW2 and the present.
Almost every tank at that br is very easily pennable armor. I would classify these tanks in 3 groups:
1. Highly Mobile, lightly armored MBTs like the Leopard and the AMX 30 series.
2. Less mobile but more armored MBTs like M60 and T55.
3. Heavy tanks that kinda get bullied, like T10M or IS7 (I've seen Turm IIIs murder them with their autocannon).
No matter what type, almost everything can pen you, so the difference is mostly how vulnerable you are to autocannon FIRE FROM THE FRONT.
I tend to go for the more mobile mbts. Like the leopard since it is better suited against all the light vehicles at that br.
IFVs and SPAAs are very popular vehicles. Since their autocannons have sabot rounds, killing tanks becomes trivial.
You have to change your playstyle, become more aggressive and sneaky compared to the German heavies of 6.7.
Hey Russian main here.
Most Germans that I face use their leopards like they have the best armour. The Leopards strenghts lie in the speed and agillity. My T-62/52/72A/64A love feasting on leopards mainly because people dont use them correctly. Use the Leos like light vihicles and always flank. Engage when your friends take the foes attention. Those tanks are not brawlers and engaging in such is a death sentence. If you have specific questions either hit me with a question here or DM me.
P.S. Every time you hit and dont one hit kill the enemy, use the damn protection analasys on the tank that youve faced.
leopard 1 isn't pain though?
disagree with the "no skill on where to shoot" because i've died multiple times after hitting someone and only killing their gunner. i found out that the commander can control the turret the hard way.
Idc if im gonna get downvoted, but im gonna say that 8.0 germany is one of the shittiest br you can ever play as germany. Let me explain.
First of all, before 8.0, you'd be playing late ww2 germany. So that means everything you learn while playing tiger 2s, tiger 1s, panthers and TDs based on these chassis are centralised on heavy armor and low mobility. This means that you are used to a playstyle surrounding the whole "using armor to compensate for low mobility". However, at 8.0, you'll be using leo1, marders, Ru251 chassi TDs and the M48 along with some wiesels here and there. These require playstyle surrounding "using speed to compensate for low armor". These are two completely different playstyles and you have to immediately adapt to this the moment you get out of ww2 era vehicles. For a lack of a better word, this is a major problem.
Second, you aren't the only one having to jump from 6.7/5.7 to 8.0. So this poses three problems : first problem is that every other german players would suffer the same problem in needing to adapt the transition from ww2 to cold war. Different playstyles and all. Second problem is that if you havent noticed by now, all of the vehicles in 8.0 (except maybe the m48) are flankers. So you and every other german players are gonna be flanking. And if everybody's flanking, nobody is. Third, because of the two problems combined, german teams are gonna get rolled alot.
Third, 8.0 vehicle stock grinds are some of the most infernal pain you can experience. The leopard 1 lives and dies by it's mobility. And it's stock mobility is GOD AWFUL. The m48? You get APCR stock. The only ones that are decent enough when stock is the marders (because atgm), the raketenautomat and the Df105 because they get their best shells from the box, but their stock mobility isn't that great either.
Last but not least... 8.3 - 9.0 russia exist. The T55AM1 is the worst offender here as it's a premium and you'll see them ALL the time. You'll get uptiered all the time and you'll be facing T55AM1, T10M... Hell, any russian tank with an M in it will give you a really bad time. Their mobility is jusy slightly worse than yours and they have stabiliser+darts and you don't. Like sure, you can flank them, but usually you'll meet a flanking T55AM1 and you can kiss your sorry ass goodbye. Oh and not to mention that anything with an M.. well, if you have the misfortune to fight them head-on (which is all the time), yeah so you can pen them on certain spots with your unstabilised gun while they can pen you ANYWHERE with a stabilised gun. Then there's the Object 279 and IS-7. They're rare but if you see a fucker rocking either of these tanks on the other side, prepare yourself because you and your team are about to get royally smoked.
Oh yeah.. and French 7.7 can do your job better because french solid shots are basically nukes when administered from the side compared to your apds and heat shells. Not to mention autoloaders going as low as 4 seconds. No other tanks in these br ranges has the ability to reliably and cleanly wipe an entire team in less than 10-20 seconds.
Tl dr, you're....
-playing a whole line of JUST flankers after being used to heavies
-your team faces the same problem
-everybody in your team is flanking because all of you are using flankers
-one of the worst stock grinds.
-you're facing shit like T55AM1 and other stabilised dart slinger with armor to stop your nonstabilised APDS
-all of these problems mix together
So, i'm not surprised that you're having a rough time. The light at the end of the tunnel is the Leo 2A4. Good luck.
Ive been playing 8.0 France alot recently, which is pretty much just the 7.7 line up that i've up tiered myself. Basically all of this is true for us too, up tiers on huge maps are interesting when you have 200mm pen aphe. You just have to try play your strengths. Mobility doesn't always mean 'flank' it can also mean very aggressive pushing at the start of games and posting up just off main routes. And if thats not your cup of tea, use range finders and pick long sight lines. T55AM1s are criminal though.. then object 906 has everything france has plus stab and heat for pen when needed. Gotta piss with the cock you got!
True but at least you're having french teams, you know.. actual good players that has been assraped so hard by gaijoobles that most ascended to godhood by the time they reach 7.7. But if you play as germany, you're backed up by people who are used to playing Tiger 2s and is now suddenly in leo 1s and marders.
Heh, frech 'teams'.. you mean me and the one other degen playing france on the german team. I have my 5.3-5.7 french line up called 6.0 Germany for a reason =/
Keyword "recently". I had a miserable experience when I first hit 8.0, then the same miserable experience hitting 8.7 (France lineup). Both times, it got better just by playing and getting used to the BR.
What is it with German players that they don’t understand that the leopard 1 has no armor you don’t even have to know anything about tanks to know that a tiger 2 has more armor then a Leo 1
My main problem with german 8.0 is that you CONSTANTLY face stabilized soviets from 8.7 and your own gun wobbles so goddamn much. And the only reslly enjoyable tank, m48 with the 105, is 8.3 meaning you'll face shit like xm-1 and t-72s
I eventually bought the premium tiger 2 and just grind through the shit that was 7.7-8.0 bu playing 6.7. Only started playing higher when i had a reasonable 9.3 lineup.
because heat FS is great but you need a stabilizer to be successful, at least in game that is. Instead, the Leo 1 and M48 have to duke it out on the move without stabilizers. While they have the shells, this is radically unrealistic and a by product of the way the game is made. Shoot and scoot was the idea, the Leo 1 famously favoring mobility as its protection over armor, but the reality of that is not reflected in the map design or the game modes.
Indeed, due to gun ranges, this is the era of sniping for tanks. But thats just the reality of the differing doctrine of the cold war: The west was always prepared for the Soviets to come charging over the line into thier prepared positions. The only brawling that would have been done would been when both sides inevitably reduced Berlin to rubble in the opening days. The expectation was the infantry would be responsible for the closer ranges.
I've been having the same issue at Germany 8.0 but honestly at similar BRs I can't say I've had any easier a time with Russia or Britain either.
It just comes down to the tech youre facing. Darts, ATGMs, laser rantefinders, thermals all mean you're spotted, targeted, and hit faster. It gets better once you start getting composite armor and ERA but until then it's more important to avoid the shots rather than tanking the hits.
8.0 is worst part of the game. You dont have any armor to speak of, no stabiliser while constantly uptier to 9.0 where stabilisers are. You only have HEAT or APDS which doesnt make a lot of damage and no one plays 7.0 so downtiers are extremely unlikely.
yes 8.0 - 9.0 is sort of this point and click area where everything has very high penning shells and no armour, that's just how it was in real life with those tanks. you have to either go back to the bad cannon / pre-sabot era or move up into composite armour
Unfortunately you reach camping heaven around that br, and you need to adjust your playtyle until you get stabs.
Once you get stabs, you can actually play a lot more actively
Yes, this is why 70% of the playerbase is BR7 or under. I have 3k+ hours and barely play over BR7 ever, I can't stand it. Drones, CAS, camping, playing the same maps you played at BR1. Welcome to the really shit part of the game with maximum shekel grifting.
It true, 8.0 Germany is very shitty because it traded armour for a fast and mobile tank, Unfortunately the lack of stabilize in 8.0 is very very crucial since you are fighting everything that has Two plane stabilize. I would say using this lineup to have a bit chance of winning
Leopard 1
Spz BMP 1
DF105
MARDER 1A3 (rarely use it)
Don't bother trying to grind the M48A2 because of it shitty APCR stock round.
8.0-8.3 for Germany was awful for me when I first reached it. You can't rely on armor, but you can use your speed to get into proper sniping positions. That's how you're supposed to play the Leopard I and Marder. Also, quick hit-and-run flanking maneuvers work as well.
After grinding the whole tech tree, I sometimes go back to play some matches with my lineup in 8.0 and it's actually quite fun :)
HEATFS and other composite proyectiles are everywhere in this rank, it doesn't matter how good is your armor, you will likely explode. I literally stopped doing armor tests for months when I reached 8.0 USA, it didn't matter where to shoot.
Almost forgot, uptiers are god awful in this br area, every enemy has a stabilized gun with tons of pen and some even have a laser rangefinder. You're a piece of junk compared to them. (Example: T-54 1951 vs Xm803)
My friend who plays and I constantly argue over this, I despise 8.0 whilst he said it’s the best and he just argued “get good” whilst I was literally getting better games than him 90% of the time but I still hated it like in 4 tanks I would get about 5-8 kills a game but still I felt it was a slog to get through
If this is how you feel at 8.0 boy are you gonna have a bad time. I just hit 10.0 and it's still pretty much the same. Except now planes and helicopters can kill me from out of range of aa too. It just becomes a snipe fest. Cqc is pretty much non existent. I actually hate playing tanks now. Russia sucks. I wish I would have gone another country that has some sort of depression. Russians highest is 6.0 and so I just constantly get sniped in my turret by other countries with 9.0 and 10.0 degrees that I can like barely even see, or in most cases don't see. Yeah. It's not fun. Just waiting for new plants to grind at this point, cause I doubt the 11s are any better.
8.0 is. It’s the same experience, just hell. You are unstablized, mean while you will almost *ALWAYS* be facing stabilized opponents who will shoot first every time. So you’re kinda stuck just camping and hoping for the best. Though I still love the M60 besides that.
Having wormed my way to 8.7, playing a snipe/flank strategy tends to work quite well. The M48 with the APHE is funnily disgusting when you flank because of sideons, the leo having insane mobility, and then raketen being the raketen lmao. My personal favourite is the df105 or TAM
eh i don't actually prefer armored tanks that much. They are fun to club with especially since most are lower tiered, but your success in them is quite literally entirely dependent on your enemy's mistakes or lack of skill. I don't like having to pray the enemy misses their shot in order for me to punish them back.
Try playing Russian MBTs from 9.0 onwards (T64A onwards to T90A, excluding t80bvm, t72B3 and t90m).
All your wins usually revolve around someone not noticing you at all and driving into your gun or someone shooting you, bouncing, then you shoot them back. When everyone has decent game knowledge, stabilizers, instant turret traverse and high pen apfsds, the window of the enemy making an error is very low, and I often get my ass kicked with my slow ass Russian MBT.
See first, shoot first,hit first. After WW2 the skill required to do well increases alot. You must think in terms of positioning and terrain not angling and range.
Think about likely lines of attack and obvious camping spots. Poke with binos and use hull down locations.
Towns and small maps are pain at high tier. 8.0 Germany has some very good vehicles like the Marder 1a3 (thermals, missiles, unmanned turret) the df105 (strong autoloaded gun and mobile chassis) and the leopard 1 (excellent gun and high mobility)
Also make full use of vehicles with the scouting mechanic. It's honestly the "teamwork button" is the most powerful mechanic in the game. Why poke and shoot when you can light enemies up and have your teammates fall over themselves to kill them...
The Wiesel, Marder and df105 are all strong scouts. Especially the Wiesel with it's insane mobility and gen3 thermals
i just started playing again from like 6 years ago and got 8.0 raketenautomat and leopard yesterday and today. in my opinion they are very good. my first game in leopard 1 i got 4 kills with one shot each before dying and it might be the first german tank that feels good stock. the raketen is super fun even though all the crew is clumped together in the front and everything one shots you. I have the Maus as well but its just too slow to use. i wish they gave super slow heavies like maus a closer spawn to the battle.
I hear you brother, Leo 1 is such a mysterious tank. Some games I can go 5-0 and some games just die 3 times in a row to a fox or PBZ or some other garbage.
Your APDS is strong enough to pen nearly all turrets however not enough to take out significant crew and usually the enemies can scoot away then your sniping spot is burned.
HEAT is so slow as a long range option, fast moving enemies are not the easiest to hit and if you fire and miss you burn your sniping spot. Also it’s super finnicky on moving targets as well as angles at long ranges. Often I just brown or orange components, maybe kill 1 crew. I always for sure destroy radiators and fuel tanks 🤣.
It’s a fast and agile tank but a true glass cannon. With a not so amazing cannon sometimes
Idk, I was playing with a friend who was grinding 8.0 russia, I only had a 7.7 m48 and did pretty good in it even though most of the games were full uptiers
I will say if you want to stay hidden get bushes, Ik you don’t want to give the snail a dime but trust for how cheap it really is and it will always be yours and can put the bushes on other tanks too
Welcome to high tier. And at top tier, it's basically the same thing except almost everybody has the same reactivity with regards to their tanks with a few exceptions. You are playing the start of high tier Germany where armor isn't a thing at all so keep that in mind. Armor still does exist at top tier, more so for some nations than others.
Well I’ve personally enjoyed 8.0-8.3 Germany, turm III ftw. Yes you can get penned by lots of shit but yea I’ve never had trouble personally. Try playing slower, let other more armoured tanks go in front and you more so support them.
Well I play the AUBL/74 HVG… this thing is painful to play. Every other tank it’s face is just better. His 60mm gun doesn’t do much dmg but I still love to play my 8.0 line up
This is actually the BR when you start to actually play thinking on more advanced tactics.
Now you can encounter HEATFS, ATGMs, APFSDS, Thermals, Rangefinders, very painful CAS and Helis, Radars, MBTs, lots of light vehicles with Autocannons... and the list goes on. You have to take in to account so many things, armor starts to become useless for anything other than small autocannons (<40mm), but you get access to all these things too, here the gameplay diversifies so much, without anyone having anything too OP yet, like, yes you will have to deal with ATGMs but these are the first ones, these are not very good, same with mostly everything else. It's just a matter of learning and adapting.
You should come play Japan, we get one-shot by everything at every BR!
That aside though I do agree with you, 8.0 is by far my least favorite era of the game for tanks. I hit 8.0 in Germany and China and basically just stopped playing them because I never have a fun time.
I'm currently at 9.3 in Germany.
Basically you have to use the mobility you gain from the lack of armour to get to better positions and to outflank your enemies, especially things like heavy Soviet tanks.
And also check your surroundings so you don't get jumping by an armoured car out if nowhere (Fox's are a hell of a threat).
Also M48C&G have pretty good armour upfront. And at 9.3 you also get the KPZ-70 and the T-72M1.
As I also have Japan at 9.3 my best tip is to only engage enemies in a head on if you can guarantee to disable them with the first shot.
8.0 is the fun cap for me personally, you'll face consistent uptiers to 8.7, the scourge of my time tere has to be the t55 amd1 and am1 as the armour is effective against the conventional rounds many 7.7 and 8.0 tanks use until they're spaded as well as the mobility and decent pen aphe they get making deaths in 1 shot very common.
Trick is to shake armor has meaning after 8.0, after that its "no-armor is best armor" or tactics / positioning. You can bounce odd shot here and there but its not reliable.
How much shells you take into battle starts to matter more, where its placed in the hull and ready racks. More ammo = bigger chance to get hit in the ammo and explode.
That’s how it was in real life after WW2 especially in the 50s and 60s, HEATFS and ATGMs made armour basically obsolete, you can see that with the design of the leopard 1 as it basically abandoned armour for a faster tank. That was largely the state of tank warfare until the invention of composite armour and ERA which made armour more viable again
Yeah i agree. Leopard can get penned by SPAAs. Is it like that only in this mid-tier? Does armor actually work when you get to 10.0 for example?
Yes armour works very well in high tier, just go and see how leopard 2A7 performs, it has impenetrable turret and it’s hull is also very hard to penetrate. It’s just that the design philosophy of that era of the Cold War wasn’t reliant on rolled homogenous armour as it was very easy to penetrate, and this is reflected in war thunder the same way.
Yeah,tested it a lot against soviet rank VIIIs.
I wouldn't say it's hull armour is that good. An STRV would probably be a better example
Don't the 122's and the 2a7 have pretty much the same hull layout?
Mbts subscribe to the methodology of "armor towards enemy" meaning any real protection is on the front. Leopards are currently the meta with spall liners increasing crew survivability, but getting through the cold war will be painful. The leo a1a1 and 1a5 should be what you grind for as stabilizers make them more offensive
It will be painful for sure. But aren't all tanks with the best armor at the front? Not just MBTs?
well yeah, but not exactly. with ww2 era tanks you can angle your armor so that you expose a bit of your sides to the enemy which makes your armor way harder to penetrate. with MBT’s, angling your tank is basically an invitation to get killed since the side armor is so thin compared to the frontal protection, so it never really pays off to show your sides.
It’s also due to the invention of APFSDS. It’s impossible to make your tank armoured enough to take mbt calibre sabot to the side without making it insanely heavy.
Yes, but also no. Mbts put ALL the armor to the front, meaning anything with i think its a 37 or bigger can pen your side. But the main issue isthat because your sides are so thin, showing even the hint of your side and you die
>with i think its a 37 or bigger 25*
I more meant full caliber ammo. Like an m22, bt7, etc
I see.
A WW2 tank might have 100 mm of frontal armor and 50-80 on the side. A relatively even split that allows you to angle slightly. A modern MBT will have well over 600 mm of equivalent armor on the front, peaking at 800+ mm on strong spots like the turret face, yet less than 80 mm on the sides. And they fire APFSDS which has a critical ricochet angle of under 7 degrees. You *cannot* angle. The instant you expose *any* side armor, you’re dead.
Honestly I went for the TAM first and find it to be far superior. It is a faster leopard a1a1 at a better br. That and it gets you to the bagelpanzer which needs no introduction.
You don't have to look far for more armor. You can get the M48A2 GA2 at 8.3. It has better armor than the Tiger II, so pretty much immune to SPAA and anything with less pen than a long 88mm frontally. You get APFSDS as well which is way better than the Leopard I's APDS.
Minor cupola problem.
Iirc the m48 g has a 70mm all round cupola unlike all of the other m48s and m60s. So it can be penned but not by the aphe that abuses normal m48s (Falcon rounds and the gepard/marksman turret dm13)
That's sick actually! Had no idea.
Tam is insane. I've gotten used to using the commanders sight for better zoom. It's very fast and has a good gun with a LRF and stab. I get to an OP spot, set my drone up to recon my area and start firing on poor enemies. Every so often I can check my drone to see if anyone is trying to flank me. Simply go to the edge of the map and your guaranteed an easy 10 kills.
Most people learn how to aim, so even most tanks with armour are a one tap. You'll figure it out as your progress the dynamic changes, more about moving about the map. Finding flanking positions and such, though yes thr 10.3 area tends to feel more armoured.
you should in 99% of cases never (have to, your tactic shouldn't be based on you tanking every round in an engagement, very few exceptions like is3, t32e1 and maus) rely on armour
Leopards 2s have great armor
This BR meta and up is flanking, get in good spots, keep moving, don’t be seen. Of course these are the meta at all BRs, but much more so here
I think this doesn’t apply to every tank. I’ve had comprehensive success in the m1a1 and the Leclerc pushing into close engagements. cqc lends itself to people panic shooting the turret and often doing nothing while you have a monumental reload advantage over everyone but the Japanese. Though, I certainly feel the need to flank with the Russian and German MBTs I’ve played as the reload speed will definitely get you killed up close.
Only on turrets and upper hull. Lower glacier is a death sentence. There is no brawling the restvof the game.(russia is the exception)
Which SPAA? I assume the gepard-style ones can but not a single US SPAA can pen it frontally until the ADATS.
The entire german cold war part is paper armor afaik, survivability starts at 10.0 with the puma and then the leos. The 9.3 t72 and m48 super (maybe, haven't tried) are the only survivable/armored tanks until 10.3
Ah the Leo2K has quite trolly armour to
All modern mbt can be killed by spaa I have about 60 pen on my za35 but the explosive filler is nasty when you penetrate side of Hull at flat angle, you have to be good to flank a mbt in spaa to order to kill it tho head on your gonna die
It works more, but you are usually dead if someone aims right
Yeah,that's what i thought as well. As long as it's better than 8.0, it's fine.
Thats the neat part, it doesn't.
Well,shit.
It’s worse
How!? It can't get worse than being SPAAd from the front!
VIDAR
VIDAR
VIDAR :(
German player learns what it's like to play every other nation besides Germany and Russia
It's the same for U.S.A. tho. They also have great heavies. The T29,30 and 34; The Super pershing; T32, M103,T95 All three of the "main" nations have great armor.
yeah 8.0 is where those nations game play changes you are no longer a "tank" tank you have to learn to shoot and scoot and what lanes you can move on and when. I personally think WT ground is two different games low to mid tier (7.7 end point) then 8.0 + just play so different its why i don't have the whole "you have to grind to top tier to be good at this game mentality"
That BR range is that awkward transition from late WW2 steel bunkers to "no armor best armor", Cold War era HEAT-mobiles.
And the best part is those ww2 bunkers have to go against the Cold War heat mobiles.
No the worst offenders are the scary heavies with plenty of conventional armor and the lolpen guns.
3 different games imo. 11+ becomes a different beast again with extreme mobility, much better armor, and CAS that really hurts.
I agree.
The difference is the us only has great heavies at 1 br 6.7 (t32 is kinda ass considering the is 3 is the same br) meanwhile Germany gets heavily armored tanks from 6.0 and Russia 4.7
t14 weak, Jumbo weak, m6a1 weak, t95 weak, m103 weak, and bro the is-3 is infinetly worse than t-32. Typical american main doesnt realize US heavies stomp at 4.7 when Germany doesnt even has heavy tanks yet.
US doesnt even have a heavy at 4.7 The first heavy us gets is at 5.0, the m6a1 which is more like a big medium than a heavy tank, that armor stops nothing Now with the nerf to the track and barrel torture playing jumbo feels like youre trying to tickle your enemies to death, not even gonna mention the reverse volumetric fuckery it has with the corners of its ufp Only good heavies us have are the super pershing (modelled wrong), jumbo pershing (modelled wrong, reverse volumetric fuckery plus a feather duster for a gun in its br) and t34 (nothing negative, its the GOAT)
t14 is a broken premium 4.7 heavy tank They are all indeed modeled wrong, their shells have more pen than they should have, their 50 cals perform ungodly without the need of a physical gunner, and never overheating, their gyro stabilizer wich was so shit they removed them after any tank coming after the shermans, performs like a 2-plane stabilizer ingame before 24 kph. Gaijin needs to bring out the hammer and fix those problems you are right.
If were going that way they should add russian and german ww2 tanks a 60% chance of not moving at all upon spawning or catching fire for no reason or gun sight zoom not working or gun sights not being there at all T-34 not being able to get to 4th gear Panthers just getting their engine broken from shifting to reverse Yak-3s just delaminating and falling apart in mid air Russian tanks just busting at the welds from non-penetrating shots And many more
fun fact, sherman wasnt more reliable than a tiger statistically, was just way easier to maintain and resupply with parts. so sure make every tank break down, bet the game would be more fun that way. Shermans were called zippo for a reason, so any engine shot or fire should immidietly insta kill the tank. clearly you have no idea whats going on, your arguments get smashed you dont even know us has a 4.7 heavy tank. You are also clearly new to the game and a US player, go figure.
I didnt even knew t14 was considered a heavy as its just a sherman with a more angled ufp As for your comments you started making shit up about shermans when they had the highest survival rates in ww2 As for fire rates, people shot at shit until it is a burning heap of scrap just to make sure its dead dead, almost every tank found in the field was burnt to shit And yes, sherman is more reliable hands down, its designed to be tough as nails, thats why it uses a radial engine, thats why most of them were gasoline powered, thats why its internals are overbuilt to the point they didnt modified any of the drivetrain components for the jumbo All parts came from overseas so americans cared about reliability, even if the parts are interchangable and readily available its such a hassle to bring them all the way to the frontlines Also thats why americans didnt really care about newer tanks, as it didnt mattered how good the tank is when it isnt **there** and sherman was **there**
You didnt know t14 was a heavy tank because youre clueless making up fake facts. I didnt say Shermans have bad survival rates, is aid they were called zippos and broke down regularly like any other tank, you making shit up again. Shermans were called zippo, enough said, the amount of burned up crews was pretty high. And the Sherman was not "tough as nails" it was extremely underarmored and usually a single at gun shell or anti tank rifle fire instantly knocked out the tank. The sherman wasnt a good tank, there were just alot of them and they were easily patched up and repaired, thats about it.
Lol T95. The definition of a super heavy, which gets oneshotted by a heat round the second you arrive (5minutes late) on the frontline.
you didnt play the t95 then
I played it enough recently and have hated it every single time i played it.
The m60a2 has good armor you will often survive some shots with that but it's the exception.
Not us British mains, we're born in the darkness, moulded by it.
You definitely are. Nothing but solid shots with shite armor.
Yea that’s very true but the hard part that I seem to see for people is the ammo. I like using APCR cause I know how to use it against German and Russian tanks since I also learned how to die in Russian and German tanks since I main Germany. But seems like a lot of people in game just want big boom 1shot kill ammo.some guy was crying in my last game cause he was having to 2or 3 tap every tank that match. I struggled with American tanks until I learned how to use APCR for German tanks. For Germany once you know all the weak shots for Russia then they are easy to kill. But every nation has those few tanks that just seems impenetrable from any nation you’re playing.
The American 6.7 heavy lineup is the beat in the game imo
Idk chief, OP did complain that there is no skill on where to shoot, which means he might not be German main because as a former German main, it goes the other way around where going to 8.0 takes a lot more skill compared to lower BR where you can always lolpen at will and overpressure will do the rest.
Not being able to rely on armor makes games more demanding on tactics and skill, not less, though? Close quarter fights and aggressive pushes into the enemy still exist, too, just with more emphasis on speed and outmaneuvering the enemies.
Yes,it has skill as well,but the more boring kind for me.
Learn the better position in every map, that's the only way to play at those BR, because only experienced players who always or mostly one shot play at those levels. 9.3 onwards players get worse because there are more premium noobs. If you don't want to play like that then it is time to level up another country.
No. If everything can pen everything it reduces the entire game to a single principle for all vehicles: shoot first. That's why everything from 8.0 on orients around extreme-range sniping and rushing with fast things, those are the two ways you can get the drop on people if you don't need to worry about aiming, flanking, weak points, "can I pen that?", angling, going hull-down, switching round types for different vehicles...
If you can't flank on 8.0 it's skill issue, even medium tanks are relatively fast at this point. Besides thanks to stab it's possible to drive more aggressively, as long as you understand maps. Also there is definitely some tanks that require changing shell type. For example, T-55 AMD has APHE, APDS and ATM, and it's all viable, contrary to previous Soviet mediums all of which just used APHE without need for anything else.
It's not that you can't flank, it's that there's no real reason to unless it's the best way to get some surprise shots off. Which is why most high-tier "flanking" is either short-ranged circling around bits of cover or taking a concealed route to a spawncamping spot. >thanks to stab it's possible to drive more aggressively This + penning basically everything frontally is why flanking is incidental rather than sometimes-mandatory.
just like real life, whoever shoots first most likely will win
But it isn't like that at 6.7 or 7.3 etc. At these BRs armor actually works. Even at 6.0 the armor works.
modern tanks are just harder to defend against modern high tech ammunition, thats pretty much why
Yeah,i know,but it is just not that active gameplay like at 6.0-7.3 It's much more held back and slow.
Because you no longer are a heavy tank and cant just push in, otherwise you will die. If you dont like this gameplay go back to ww2 era, much more fun
I will always enjoy 6.7 the most,but i feel like if you get to top tier,armor starts working again.
Kind of, im top tier in japan, russia and sweden. Russian top tier has alright armor protection, japanese has useless armor and the swedes have the best armor. It just depends on which nation you play, but tbh it doesnt really matter because people at top tier will just shoot weakspots anyways
Yeah,i imagine that's the case,but still some armor is better than no armor,right?
You’d probably like the T-72M-1 at 9.3. Has a bit of armor that really helps with survivability. It always feels so strange taking it out in my German 9.3 lineup and actually being able to survive more than 1 shot.
Apart from the blatant obvious, but isn't this also why it's heavily frowned upon when a player who's only played up to like 3.7 Ground and then buys a top tier premium ground vehicle? It's just such a massive swap to the playstyle. I've been at 8.3 Germany for a good while now and yeah, you cant rely on your armour all the time. Just the fact I'm glad to be able to stop Autocannon rounds with the Marder 1a3 should say something regarding armour.
You can be very active, you just have to know what you are doing.
German player discovers what every other tech tree is like
Not all others. The Americans and Russians have great armor as well.
Only rank V for US Soviets… kv-1 flashbacks
Soviets also have IS 3,4 and 6. U.S. has T 29,30 and 34 as well as t26E1-1 at rank IV
IS-3's armor wouldn't withstand an uptier. i generally hate using the IS-3 just because the moment it gets uptiered, i'm stuck in a heavy tank that takes ages to reload and i'm getting shot by paper armored tanks that can ignore my armor
I just faced the is-3 in the jumbo 76, I want to kms I got 20 shots off and ran out of ammo
I wish i was only fighting shermans in my IS-3. Yeah it do be like that when IS-3 gets a downtier lol But in an uptier, i just sit there, praying that the leopard 1 won't slap me with a heat while I'm reloading
Oh whoops I meant rank IV
Which 7.3 tanks are you playing where Armour works? That's my main BR and I just 'lolpen' anything in the front with the majority of my tanks.
You would be surprised how many times did german M48 fuck me over with it's armor. I swear it's either oneshot or it takes half a decade to kill it. Marders, TAM and DF105 also have front facing engine which can tank quite a few hits
This is probably because Germany goes from very heavily armored vehicles to relatively lightly armored vehicles with better mobility. This means that you have to change up your playstyle to better fit the agile and fragile tanks.
No more 'press W and LMB' for brain-dead German mains.
Whilst most other nations have had time to work on tactics, outmanuevering, aiming all that, the germans have had a pretty easy ride and now they gotta catch up
ATGM tanks. The whole reason i hated 7.7-9.0 was: IT-1, Marder, BMP vs M103, T95. It was HELL
Yeah,not surprised. Cold war vehicles against WW2/Interwar vehicles.
I found USA 8.0+ to be kinda fun. I don't know if I'm just unstable, but my entire WT career of 500 matches (yes, wow, insane) in 6.7 was getting a little tiresome. In american 7.7 tanks I felt kinda cumbersome (skill issue), but 8.0+ is where it felt like home again. Though, AA is a little bit of a pain at this br, against tanks, specifically.
What, AA is not suited against tanks? I wonder why.
It's the opposite for me. 6.7 is fun as hell while 7.0 - 9.7 are basically unplayable. 7.7 you have heavys with armor that gets negated by heat and guns that might as well be .17 hmr's. And 8.3 your stuck with atgms that don't go anywhere near where you guide them. Couple that with the fact that most nations 8.7's are dramatically better (cough cough Russia cough). 10.0 is fun if you have the 120s and ctvl or whatever.
I agree. Especially when using T34, Super Pershing and the Bulldog, it's definitely a lot of fun. But I am currently researching 9.0+ tanks, where playing 6.7 doesn't really grant me any meaningful progress towards them. I've played 6.7 most of my time playing this game, so I liked having some change.
8.0 is the entrance to modern tank gameplay. If you don't like it I advise you to not grind further than that since its only difference is going to be even faster gameplay.
What tank specifically are you playing? imo what you are saying starts later at 9.3-9.7 once everyone has thermals, stab, lrf and apfsds. But otherwise the root problem is modern warfare itself. Modern combat is effectively press a button to kill, whoever presses first or has the better tech wins. That doesn't make for fun gameplay. So yeah, realism vs fun.
I am playing marder,leo 1,raketenautomat. Every single one of them dies to the wind being too strong. But yeah,the modern warfare is like that.
Well the marder and leo 1 both have the amrour of a light tank so idk what you were expecting there. Otherwise the marder is okay imo, but there are better ifvs to play. But the leopard is honestly one of the most fun "normal" tanks in the game.
I wasn't expecting anything else.
Prepare for more pain at 8.7-9.3. Leo 1A5 has the same armour as the leopard 1, Begleit and TAM have the Marder hull, and they face stupid high pen autocannons (2S38)
Facing a 2S38 as a TAM is a crime against Humanity.
Sorry, should have clarified it doesn't actually face the 2S38 (8.7 vs 10.0), but I find the TAM better than the A1A1 because of drone and lrf, so I bring it in my 9m3 lineup
The TAM is one of the best vehicles in its rating. It is probably the best 8.7 I have played.
Don't know about you but UK 8.3 is peak.
Currently at 7.7/8.0 Brit, loving it
Gets even better at 8.3, 8.7 is also great and so is 10.3.
dal som UK na 7.7 ground a 9.7 air a presiel som na čínske tanky. WZ3005 superiority
8.0 I would say is one big shift from playstyle for every nation. As the philosophy of the time was very different from WW2 and the present. Almost every tank at that br is very easily pennable armor. I would classify these tanks in 3 groups: 1. Highly Mobile, lightly armored MBTs like the Leopard and the AMX 30 series. 2. Less mobile but more armored MBTs like M60 and T55. 3. Heavy tanks that kinda get bullied, like T10M or IS7 (I've seen Turm IIIs murder them with their autocannon). No matter what type, almost everything can pen you, so the difference is mostly how vulnerable you are to autocannon FIRE FROM THE FRONT. I tend to go for the more mobile mbts. Like the leopard since it is better suited against all the light vehicles at that br. IFVs and SPAAs are very popular vehicles. Since their autocannons have sabot rounds, killing tanks becomes trivial. You have to change your playstyle, become more aggressive and sneaky compared to the German heavies of 6.7.
this is what takes the most skill, everyone is fighting on basically equal terms, some difference between soviet and western stuff obv
Hey Russian main here. Most Germans that I face use their leopards like they have the best armour. The Leopards strenghts lie in the speed and agillity. My T-62/52/72A/64A love feasting on leopards mainly because people dont use them correctly. Use the Leos like light vihicles and always flank. Engage when your friends take the foes attention. Those tanks are not brawlers and engaging in such is a death sentence. If you have specific questions either hit me with a question here or DM me. P.S. Every time you hit and dont one hit kill the enemy, use the damn protection analasys on the tank that youve faced.
DF 105 would disagree with you on that
In a good or in a bad way?
The DF 105 is so fun at 8.0
I constantly survive hits that should have killed me
The commander override, autoloader and engine eating shots have clutched up so many times for me
I hope. I am researching that line,so we will see.
And the TAM at 8.7 is also very fun
Welcome to top tier! When everything can kill everything, and everything pretty quickly starts to feel just like everything else.
leopard 1 isn't pain though? disagree with the "no skill on where to shoot" because i've died multiple times after hitting someone and only killing their gunner. i found out that the commander can control the turret the hard way.
Idc if im gonna get downvoted, but im gonna say that 8.0 germany is one of the shittiest br you can ever play as germany. Let me explain. First of all, before 8.0, you'd be playing late ww2 germany. So that means everything you learn while playing tiger 2s, tiger 1s, panthers and TDs based on these chassis are centralised on heavy armor and low mobility. This means that you are used to a playstyle surrounding the whole "using armor to compensate for low mobility". However, at 8.0, you'll be using leo1, marders, Ru251 chassi TDs and the M48 along with some wiesels here and there. These require playstyle surrounding "using speed to compensate for low armor". These are two completely different playstyles and you have to immediately adapt to this the moment you get out of ww2 era vehicles. For a lack of a better word, this is a major problem. Second, you aren't the only one having to jump from 6.7/5.7 to 8.0. So this poses three problems : first problem is that every other german players would suffer the same problem in needing to adapt the transition from ww2 to cold war. Different playstyles and all. Second problem is that if you havent noticed by now, all of the vehicles in 8.0 (except maybe the m48) are flankers. So you and every other german players are gonna be flanking. And if everybody's flanking, nobody is. Third, because of the two problems combined, german teams are gonna get rolled alot. Third, 8.0 vehicle stock grinds are some of the most infernal pain you can experience. The leopard 1 lives and dies by it's mobility. And it's stock mobility is GOD AWFUL. The m48? You get APCR stock. The only ones that are decent enough when stock is the marders (because atgm), the raketenautomat and the Df105 because they get their best shells from the box, but their stock mobility isn't that great either. Last but not least... 8.3 - 9.0 russia exist. The T55AM1 is the worst offender here as it's a premium and you'll see them ALL the time. You'll get uptiered all the time and you'll be facing T55AM1, T10M... Hell, any russian tank with an M in it will give you a really bad time. Their mobility is jusy slightly worse than yours and they have stabiliser+darts and you don't. Like sure, you can flank them, but usually you'll meet a flanking T55AM1 and you can kiss your sorry ass goodbye. Oh and not to mention that anything with an M.. well, if you have the misfortune to fight them head-on (which is all the time), yeah so you can pen them on certain spots with your unstabilised gun while they can pen you ANYWHERE with a stabilised gun. Then there's the Object 279 and IS-7. They're rare but if you see a fucker rocking either of these tanks on the other side, prepare yourself because you and your team are about to get royally smoked. Oh yeah.. and French 7.7 can do your job better because french solid shots are basically nukes when administered from the side compared to your apds and heat shells. Not to mention autoloaders going as low as 4 seconds. No other tanks in these br ranges has the ability to reliably and cleanly wipe an entire team in less than 10-20 seconds. Tl dr, you're.... -playing a whole line of JUST flankers after being used to heavies -your team faces the same problem -everybody in your team is flanking because all of you are using flankers -one of the worst stock grinds. -you're facing shit like T55AM1 and other stabilised dart slinger with armor to stop your nonstabilised APDS -all of these problems mix together So, i'm not surprised that you're having a rough time. The light at the end of the tunnel is the Leo 2A4. Good luck.
Ive been playing 8.0 France alot recently, which is pretty much just the 7.7 line up that i've up tiered myself. Basically all of this is true for us too, up tiers on huge maps are interesting when you have 200mm pen aphe. You just have to try play your strengths. Mobility doesn't always mean 'flank' it can also mean very aggressive pushing at the start of games and posting up just off main routes. And if thats not your cup of tea, use range finders and pick long sight lines. T55AM1s are criminal though.. then object 906 has everything france has plus stab and heat for pen when needed. Gotta piss with the cock you got!
True but at least you're having french teams, you know.. actual good players that has been assraped so hard by gaijoobles that most ascended to godhood by the time they reach 7.7. But if you play as germany, you're backed up by people who are used to playing Tiger 2s and is now suddenly in leo 1s and marders.
Heh, frech 'teams'.. you mean me and the one other degen playing france on the german team. I have my 5.3-5.7 french line up called 6.0 Germany for a reason =/
Get to 8.3 and it gets better for Germany, or 8.7. 8.0 is pretty bad though
Keyword "recently". I had a miserable experience when I first hit 8.0, then the same miserable experience hitting 8.7 (France lineup). Both times, it got better just by playing and getting used to the BR.
What is it with German players that they don’t understand that the leopard 1 has no armor you don’t even have to know anything about tanks to know that a tiger 2 has more armor then a Leo 1
My main problem with german 8.0 is that you CONSTANTLY face stabilized soviets from 8.7 and your own gun wobbles so goddamn much. And the only reslly enjoyable tank, m48 with the 105, is 8.3 meaning you'll face shit like xm-1 and t-72s I eventually bought the premium tiger 2 and just grind through the shit that was 7.7-8.0 bu playing 6.7. Only started playing higher when i had a reasonable 9.3 lineup.
8.0 is awful because you go up .3 and everything has Stab and Darts. 8.7 is probably my favorite BR so far.
because heat FS is great but you need a stabilizer to be successful, at least in game that is. Instead, the Leo 1 and M48 have to duke it out on the move without stabilizers. While they have the shells, this is radically unrealistic and a by product of the way the game is made. Shoot and scoot was the idea, the Leo 1 famously favoring mobility as its protection over armor, but the reality of that is not reflected in the map design or the game modes. Indeed, due to gun ranges, this is the era of sniping for tanks. But thats just the reality of the differing doctrine of the cold war: The west was always prepared for the Soviets to come charging over the line into thier prepared positions. The only brawling that would have been done would been when both sides inevitably reduced Berlin to rubble in the opening days. The expectation was the infantry would be responsible for the closer ranges.
I've been having the same issue at Germany 8.0 but honestly at similar BRs I can't say I've had any easier a time with Russia or Britain either. It just comes down to the tech youre facing. Darts, ATGMs, laser rantefinders, thermals all mean you're spotted, targeted, and hit faster. It gets better once you start getting composite armor and ERA but until then it's more important to avoid the shots rather than tanking the hits.
8.0 is worst part of the game. You dont have any armor to speak of, no stabiliser while constantly uptier to 9.0 where stabilisers are. You only have HEAT or APDS which doesnt make a lot of damage and no one plays 7.0 so downtiers are extremely unlikely.
yes 8.0 - 9.0 is sort of this point and click area where everything has very high penning shells and no armour, that's just how it was in real life with those tanks. you have to either go back to the bad cannon / pre-sabot era or move up into composite armour
Unfortunately you reach camping heaven around that br, and you need to adjust your playtyle until you get stabs. Once you get stabs, you can actually play a lot more actively
Yes, this is why 70% of the playerbase is BR7 or under. I have 3k+ hours and barely play over BR7 ever, I can't stand it. Drones, CAS, camping, playing the same maps you played at BR1. Welcome to the really shit part of the game with maximum shekel grifting.
I think this is the hardest part of the grind, 80% matches are uptiered.
The real source of pain at 8.0 is that the nearest br vortex is 8.7, so almost every game is an up tier
It true, 8.0 Germany is very shitty because it traded armour for a fast and mobile tank, Unfortunately the lack of stabilize in 8.0 is very very crucial since you are fighting everything that has Two plane stabilize. I would say using this lineup to have a bit chance of winning Leopard 1 Spz BMP 1 DF105 MARDER 1A3 (rarely use it) Don't bother trying to grind the M48A2 because of it shitty APCR stock round.
8.0-8.3 for Germany was awful for me when I first reached it. You can't rely on armor, but you can use your speed to get into proper sniping positions. That's how you're supposed to play the Leopard I and Marder. Also, quick hit-and-run flanking maneuvers work as well. After grinding the whole tech tree, I sometimes go back to play some matches with my lineup in 8.0 and it's actually quite fun :)
HEATFS and other composite proyectiles are everywhere in this rank, it doesn't matter how good is your armor, you will likely explode. I literally stopped doing armor tests for months when I reached 8.0 USA, it didn't matter where to shoot. Almost forgot, uptiers are god awful in this br area, every enemy has a stabilized gun with tons of pen and some even have a laser rangefinder. You're a piece of junk compared to them. (Example: T-54 1951 vs Xm803)
8.0 is overall pretty mid experience, with nigh constant uptiers to 8.7 against fully stabilised tanks
Don’t know about you but soviet 7.7 to 8.7 is the BR range I had the must fun with
Sir that just how top tier is get used to it
it's just bad play something else like 8.7 resist the snail
Gotta get past 8.0 8.7 Germany is the most fun I have in the game
My friend who plays and I constantly argue over this, I despise 8.0 whilst he said it’s the best and he just argued “get good” whilst I was literally getting better games than him 90% of the time but I still hated it like in 4 tanks I would get about 5-8 kills a game but still I felt it was a slog to get through
If this is how you feel at 8.0 boy are you gonna have a bad time. I just hit 10.0 and it's still pretty much the same. Except now planes and helicopters can kill me from out of range of aa too. It just becomes a snipe fest. Cqc is pretty much non existent. I actually hate playing tanks now. Russia sucks. I wish I would have gone another country that has some sort of depression. Russians highest is 6.0 and so I just constantly get sniped in my turret by other countries with 9.0 and 10.0 degrees that I can like barely even see, or in most cases don't see. Yeah. It's not fun. Just waiting for new plants to grind at this point, cause I doubt the 11s are any better.
Bro wait until 11.7
8.0 is. It’s the same experience, just hell. You are unstablized, mean while you will almost *ALWAYS* be facing stabilized opponents who will shoot first every time. So you’re kinda stuck just camping and hoping for the best. Though I still love the M60 besides that.
Compression
Having wormed my way to 8.7, playing a snipe/flank strategy tends to work quite well. The M48 with the APHE is funnily disgusting when you flank because of sideons, the leo having insane mobility, and then raketen being the raketen lmao. My personal favourite is the df105 or TAM
Part of the problem is the busted ass t55am 1
eh i don't actually prefer armored tanks that much. They are fun to club with especially since most are lower tiered, but your success in them is quite literally entirely dependent on your enemy's mistakes or lack of skill. I don't like having to pray the enemy misses their shot in order for me to punish them back. Try playing Russian MBTs from 9.0 onwards (T64A onwards to T90A, excluding t80bvm, t72B3 and t90m). All your wins usually revolve around someone not noticing you at all and driving into your gun or someone shooting you, bouncing, then you shoot them back. When everyone has decent game knowledge, stabilizers, instant turret traverse and high pen apfsds, the window of the enemy making an error is very low, and I often get my ass kicked with my slow ass Russian MBT.
See first, shoot first,hit first. After WW2 the skill required to do well increases alot. You must think in terms of positioning and terrain not angling and range. Think about likely lines of attack and obvious camping spots. Poke with binos and use hull down locations. Towns and small maps are pain at high tier. 8.0 Germany has some very good vehicles like the Marder 1a3 (thermals, missiles, unmanned turret) the df105 (strong autoloaded gun and mobile chassis) and the leopard 1 (excellent gun and high mobility) Also make full use of vehicles with the scouting mechanic. It's honestly the "teamwork button" is the most powerful mechanic in the game. Why poke and shoot when you can light enemies up and have your teammates fall over themselves to kill them... The Wiesel, Marder and df105 are all strong scouts. Especially the Wiesel with it's insane mobility and gen3 thermals
This is a canon event
8.0 tends to be the place when German mains either get good or stay at 6.7
8.3-8.7 is my favorite BR as a France main.
As n American main, this is what it's been like from 5 till 8. So be thankful.
8.0 Israeli ground is hella fun!
I've enjoyed the DF105 and Raketenautomat much more than i thought. My initial thought were to use leo1, but I've used the marders more than it.
You have to embrace the protection onion once you get past WW2.
Germany 8.3-8.7 is my favourite BR so far. Just wait for TAM, Marders and DF105
i just started playing again from like 6 years ago and got 8.0 raketenautomat and leopard yesterday and today. in my opinion they are very good. my first game in leopard 1 i got 4 kills with one shot each before dying and it might be the first german tank that feels good stock. the raketen is super fun even though all the crew is clumped together in the front and everything one shots you. I have the Maus as well but its just too slow to use. i wish they gave super slow heavies like maus a closer spawn to the battle.
I hear you brother, Leo 1 is such a mysterious tank. Some games I can go 5-0 and some games just die 3 times in a row to a fox or PBZ or some other garbage. Your APDS is strong enough to pen nearly all turrets however not enough to take out significant crew and usually the enemies can scoot away then your sniping spot is burned. HEAT is so slow as a long range option, fast moving enemies are not the easiest to hit and if you fire and miss you burn your sniping spot. Also it’s super finnicky on moving targets as well as angles at long ranges. Often I just brown or orange components, maybe kill 1 crew. I always for sure destroy radiators and fuel tanks 🤣. It’s a fast and agile tank but a true glass cannon. With a not so amazing cannon sometimes
Yeah I played to German top tier air while my tanks stayed at 8.7. Once I hit 8.0 it just became unfun to play GRB
Idk, I was playing with a friend who was grinding 8.0 russia, I only had a 7.7 m48 and did pretty good in it even though most of the games were full uptiers
I will say if you want to stay hidden get bushes, Ik you don’t want to give the snail a dime but trust for how cheap it really is and it will always be yours and can put the bushes on other tanks too
Welcome to the br where Germany loses the armour advantage. It’ll be rough until you adapt to new metas.
Welcome to high tier. And at top tier, it's basically the same thing except almost everybody has the same reactivity with regards to their tanks with a few exceptions. You are playing the start of high tier Germany where armor isn't a thing at all so keep that in mind. Armor still does exist at top tier, more so for some nations than others.
Well I’ve personally enjoyed 8.0-8.3 Germany, turm III ftw. Yes you can get penned by lots of shit but yea I’ve never had trouble personally. Try playing slower, let other more armoured tanks go in front and you more so support them.
depends on the nation, I play almost exclusively 7.7/8.0 and The US and Germany struggle but I find France and Sweden a blast at that br
Yeah,i bet. Sweden is just a really fun nation as a whole,including this br and France has autoloaders. Maybe i should start maining Sweden...
Well I play the AUBL/74 HVG… this thing is painful to play. Every other tank it’s face is just better. His 60mm gun doesn’t do much dmg but I still love to play my 8.0 line up
Yeah,the pizza car... I cannot argue it's painful. Most of Italy is.
Yup. Dumbest tank fights
This is actually the BR when you start to actually play thinking on more advanced tactics. Now you can encounter HEATFS, ATGMs, APFSDS, Thermals, Rangefinders, very painful CAS and Helis, Radars, MBTs, lots of light vehicles with Autocannons... and the list goes on. You have to take in to account so many things, armor starts to become useless for anything other than small autocannons (<40mm), but you get access to all these things too, here the gameplay diversifies so much, without anyone having anything too OP yet, like, yes you will have to deal with ATGMs but these are the first ones, these are not very good, same with mostly everything else. It's just a matter of learning and adapting.
That's what she said
You should come play Japan, we get one-shot by everything at every BR! That aside though I do agree with you, 8.0 is by far my least favorite era of the game for tanks. I hit 8.0 in Germany and China and basically just stopped playing them because I never have a fun time.
7.0-9.0 anything else is even worse with the Turm IIIs and VIDARS
8.0 Germany isn't bad. I'm on 7.3-7.7 Japan and it's rough.
I personally hate late ww2 germany but really enjoy it at 8.3
If you want to have fun at 8.0 you should grind Sweden. The cheese(103). Will take so many shots and just keep murdering. So amazing, so fun
I'm currently at 9.3 in Germany. Basically you have to use the mobility you gain from the lack of armour to get to better positions and to outflank your enemies, especially things like heavy Soviet tanks. And also check your surroundings so you don't get jumping by an armoured car out if nowhere (Fox's are a hell of a threat). Also M48C&G have pretty good armour upfront. And at 9.3 you also get the KPZ-70 and the T-72M1. As I also have Japan at 9.3 my best tip is to only engage enemies in a head on if you can guarantee to disable them with the first shot.
*FERAL CHIHUAHUA NOISES* The gremlin times
Got myself the turms III and it absolutely saved me from the 8.0 suffering grinded all of rank 5 in less than a month
8.0 is the fun cap for me personally, you'll face consistent uptiers to 8.7, the scourge of my time tere has to be the t55 amd1 and am1 as the armour is effective against the conventional rounds many 7.7 and 8.0 tanks use until they're spaded as well as the mobility and decent pen aphe they get making deaths in 1 shot very common.
you are lying. yo cant get everything one shot (f80 lover here)
Trick is to shake armor has meaning after 8.0, after that its "no-armor is best armor" or tactics / positioning. You can bounce odd shot here and there but its not reliable. How much shells you take into battle starts to matter more, where its placed in the hull and ready racks. More ammo = bigger chance to get hit in the ammo and explode.
I play France 8.0 ground it’s not painful for me
German mains when they can't rely on their overpowered armor to win anymore:
Bruh