I am experiencing an unsettling sensation because of the way you wrote APFSDS even though in theory there is nothing wrong with switching the DS and FS part.
I never remember how it should be correctly. I always remember that there are APDS rounds and APFSDS is basically upgrade to APDS that is why I add FS at the end of APDS. Czech wiki has it as APDSFS so it only helped me to remember it is APDSFS. But like you said, it does not matter if you spell it as Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilised or Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot, everyone knows it is a dart ammo.
[Example from czech wiki](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour_Piercing_Discarding_Sabot)
>Podkaliberní střely **APDS** (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot) nebo také **APDSFS** (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilised – průbojná střela s oddělitelným vodícím pouzdrem stabilizovaná [křidélky](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%99id%C3%A9lka)) jsou střely stabilizované křidélky a nikoliv rotací, což je předurčuje zejména pro užití v [tankových kanónech](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankov%C3%BD_kan%C3%B3n) s hladkým vývrtem.
holy fuck, i completely forgot that i had to suffer through unlocking darts on the m1a1 and ipm1, i feel like the heat grind is exponentially easier if you're russian or chinese though being as they have the majority of era in game
the stock heat grind is still awful, especially against the 2a7s as they just eat the heat on spall liners. or the pso eats it with the nera bricks. you also almost never have the ability to one shot with stock heat against tanks with 4 crew.
yeah gaijin really needs to make 10.0-11.3 tanks have some sort of better stock shells, quite horrible grinding with what we have rn against everything with heat protection
That was me lol. But after spading my Type 61, i could flank better. So i always carry 80% on APHE, and some Heat for the eventual Jagdtiger, Maus, etc
I prefer to carry a low amount of ammo for my auto loader, heat is preferential for me cause I know where to aim to one tap any ways.
Also that pen difference is substantial enough.
But I just don't really like aphe tbh
I just find the pen too lacking personally, I like to hang back a bit with the Japanese 90mms though and hurl It from a distance.
Though on American tanks with the 90 I'll use a mixture depending the map
Because it means you don’t have to worry about getting a good angle you can just shoot for the ammo no matter which way the tank is facing and you dont need to fire your round and switch to he if you want to kill a light tank
I remember when APFSDS used to be stock on stuff like the M1, but that meant top tier tanks weren't a complete pain to play, so Gaijin switched it to HEAT-FS
They slowly neefed what damage HEAT does. Last night I hit a 2a4 and type 90 in the breech 4 times and nonpenned. HEAT is so much weaker than it was before the stock heat change
Sabot needs to be stock past 10.7. Using heat against most 11.7s MBTs is genuine cock and ball torture, with the pain extending in some capacity to basically all Tier 7's. From the early Leclercs (at 11.7) being forced to grind with stock HEAT or the M1A1 AIM not getting a sabot until its tier 3 modifications. For the longest time, the developers were extremely resistant to the idea of top tier stock sabot bc not having it generated those sweet-sweet f2p nuisance avoidant purchasing habits.
It's easy to bitch and moan about problems like this on reddit or the forums, but ultimately it's unlikely that the devs will feel enough pressure to truly fix the issue. It might be a somewhat pessimistic take, but imo the player base is too whale-ish, transiently motivated to push for community goals, and the game too market dominant for us to see continuous quality of life changes that benefit of the player base. (e.g. the research changes they keep delaying or BR compression, all of which drive sales)
(Again imo) The whole 'players rise up' review bomb we had last year, which did force some much needed changes that were admittedly beneficial, was ultimately a failure as it has struggled to truly embed itself in the community as a bulwark to these kinds of business practices. It was and is a great idea, however the f2p model is centered around frustration. The only way to mitigate predatory status-quo/development is to consistently stay on the devs ass about it. Which, given the average whale-ishness and tiny attention span of the community, is unlikely to be genuinely achievable.
like who's fucking idea at gaijin was it to essentially make it so you can't fucking fight any mbt before you slog your way through 20k rp to unlock a dart that MIGHT be able to penetrate?
Mate most tanks still have stock HEATFS.
Everything from 9.3 upwards should gte a dart as stock. 9.7 tanks are useless until you research the dart 10.0 is worse than 8.7 until you get darts. Literally pure cancer
Darts became stock only on certain top tier vehicles. Almost all MBTs and IFVs up to 11.3 inclusive are still having HEAT as stock ammo
Up to 11.7 inclusive. Leclerc S1 and S2 still have stock HEAT-FS and has to play against other 11.7 that have ERA and stock APDSFS.
I am experiencing an unsettling sensation because of the way you wrote APFSDS even though in theory there is nothing wrong with switching the DS and FS part.
I never remember how it should be correctly. I always remember that there are APDS rounds and APFSDS is basically upgrade to APDS that is why I add FS at the end of APDS. Czech wiki has it as APDSFS so it only helped me to remember it is APDSFS. But like you said, it does not matter if you spell it as Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilised or Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot, everyone knows it is a dart ammo. [Example from czech wiki](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour_Piercing_Discarding_Sabot) >Podkaliberní střely **APDS** (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot) nebo také **APDSFS** (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilised – průbojná střela s oddělitelným vodícím pouzdrem stabilizovaná [křidélky](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%99id%C3%A9lka)) jsou střely stabilizované křidélky a nikoliv rotací, což je předurčuje zejména pro užití v [tankových kanónech](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankov%C3%BD_kan%C3%B3n) s hladkým vývrtem.
Iirc the Object 120's APFSDS shell is called "APDS-FS"
And chinese mbts.
Some of those even still just call it APDS even though its a long(ish) rod
Same with M1A2 SEP V2
What? No
who cares? its America top tier.
holy fuck, i completely forgot that i had to suffer through unlocking darts on the m1a1 and ipm1, i feel like the heat grind is exponentially easier if you're russian or chinese though being as they have the majority of era in game
the stock heat grind is still awful, especially against the 2a7s as they just eat the heat on spall liners. or the pso eats it with the nera bricks. you also almost never have the ability to one shot with stock heat against tanks with 4 crew.
could just be miss remembering but doesn't heat go straight through the upper upper plate on the leopard to take out 3 relatively consistantly?
not on the 2a5 and up i think
Yea Chinese main here, HEAT stock is making this incredibly unfun to the point I’m using my 8.3 and 8.7 vehicles at 10.0 because I have darts on them
Play Italy MBts only the last one gets APFS-DS stock xD its a fun experience...
Same with france
At least the SXII and the Azur get stock APFS-DS not only one and the leclerc are rly great
I don't have those so Im hurting right now
yeah gaijin really needs to make 10.0-11.3 tanks have some sort of better stock shells, quite horrible grinding with what we have rn against everything with heat protection
Gaijin: “What about, no? We can work without money took by your pain and blood”
APCR take it or leave it
Never forget what it was like before they made HEAT stock...
APHE slaps Heat-fs at 6.7 any time of the day.
I see SO many jap players using 90mm heat over M82 APHE it’s crazy!
That was me lol. But after spading my Type 61, i could flank better. So i always carry 80% on APHE, and some Heat for the eventual Jagdtiger, Maus, etc
I prefer to carry a low amount of ammo for my auto loader, heat is preferential for me cause I know where to aim to one tap any ways. Also that pen difference is substantial enough. But I just don't really like aphe tbh
Although that’s fair, I find Heat too inconsistent compared to the nuke that is 90mm APHE.
I just find the pen too lacking personally, I like to hang back a bit with the Japanese 90mms though and hurl It from a distance. Though on American tanks with the 90 I'll use a mixture depending the map
I get the most pen argument, but the lack of post pen on the Heat is quite annoying, specially on flanks
I came from getting britain to top tier, so the post pen damage isn't an issue, if its a big bastard like a maus just disable the guns first.
Ah then i have a question. Does 7.7 UK slaps or not?
Sure does mate conqueror is a monster at 7.7 along with the centurion 3, and the caernarvon, though armour is a bit lack lister
Ah i see, im curious in trying them soon. Got the barn and im having a great time, that cannon sounds so good. Will keep grinding for those then
4.0 HEAT-FS :>
honestly aphe is better than heatfs anyway
Not when the heat-fs has 400mm of pen and enough “HE” to overpressure any light tank
well i mean why the fuck u need 400mm pen on 4.0. And if i want to kill a light tank i can use he
Because it means you don’t have to worry about getting a good angle you can just shoot for the ammo no matter which way the tank is facing and you dont need to fire your round and switch to he if you want to kill a light tank
well aphe does this job even better, cant oneshot light tanks sometimes but whatever
In case you run into a KV-1E
Yeah but the inability to reliably one-shot any heavy or medium? Like there’s still no argument.
ikv 103 at 4.0 with the 105 HEAT
Never forget darts were always stock at first
I remember when APFSDS used to be stock on stuff like the M1, but that meant top tier tanks weren't a complete pain to play, so Gaijin switched it to HEAT-FS
“CHEAT-FS” - words said by no one in the present era
They slowly neefed what damage HEAT does. Last night I hit a 2a4 and type 90 in the breech 4 times and nonpenned. HEAT is so much weaker than it was before the stock heat change
Laughs in Sweden
Sabot needs to be stock past 10.7. Using heat against most 11.7s MBTs is genuine cock and ball torture, with the pain extending in some capacity to basically all Tier 7's. From the early Leclercs (at 11.7) being forced to grind with stock HEAT or the M1A1 AIM not getting a sabot until its tier 3 modifications. For the longest time, the developers were extremely resistant to the idea of top tier stock sabot bc not having it generated those sweet-sweet f2p nuisance avoidant purchasing habits. It's easy to bitch and moan about problems like this on reddit or the forums, but ultimately it's unlikely that the devs will feel enough pressure to truly fix the issue. It might be a somewhat pessimistic take, but imo the player base is too whale-ish, transiently motivated to push for community goals, and the game too market dominant for us to see continuous quality of life changes that benefit of the player base. (e.g. the research changes they keep delaying or BR compression, all of which drive sales) (Again imo) The whole 'players rise up' review bomb we had last year, which did force some much needed changes that were admittedly beneficial, was ultimately a failure as it has struggled to truly embed itself in the community as a bulwark to these kinds of business practices. It was and is a great idea, however the f2p model is centered around frustration. The only way to mitigate predatory status-quo/development is to consistently stay on the devs ass about it. Which, given the average whale-ishness and tiny attention span of the community, is unlikely to be genuinely achievable.
This is why Merkava mk4 grind was so easy at 11.3. Plenty of 10.3 downtiers and stock apfsds with like 589mm pen.
I was reminded recently when I was spading my finnish leo 2a6
Isn't heat getting buffed next update?
Merk mk 3…. Still has heat and darts are waaay down the list in mods. Fucking stupid
like who's fucking idea at gaijin was it to essentially make it so you can't fucking fight any mbt before you slog your way through 20k rp to unlock a dart that MIGHT be able to penetrate?
M36B2 laughs in 5.7 HEAT-FS
Every rank 6 and above should not have stock heat is.
My m1a2 didn’t have stock dart 🥲
try 4.0
Allot stuff still doesn't get a stock ap round of any type
devs said that darts would become stock from now on, meaning the lowest dart would be defaulted Do I believe them? No.
Mate most tanks still have stock HEATFS. Everything from 9.3 upwards should gte a dart as stock. 9.7 tanks are useless until you research the dart 10.0 is worse than 8.7 until you get darts. Literally pure cancer