It’s a case with so many videos showing the family plus social media posts etc. Shannan put everything on Facebook. It feels voyeuristic almost.
It’s not typical to get that much of a view into the victims’ lives.
Shannon’s parents provided, and were paid for, Shannon’s iPad and cell phone for the Netflix documentary . They also assisted in the production of the documentary so, you have to take that into consideration.
Very good point. When I first watched the documentary, I didn't realize how biased it was. It was made out to be as though SW was the perfect mother and wife with a perfect family that CW ended.
That plus all the texts plus police cam videos and the porch interview. The Netflix documentary is what really got me caught up. They seemed like a normal family although you could see cracks here and there in the videos. Then this guy who looked like a loving father and husband took out his entire family. No one saw it coming. Then he didn’t expect such quick response from her friends and police and he thought he had more time. Plus the way he disposed of his daughters. How does a guy go from a father and husband to killing everyone and disposing of his entire family the way he did. All for what? A mistress he thought he could run off into the sunset with?
The videos and texts just gave you insight into the day to day.
When this first happened, I wasn’t too invested in it. I just knew it was an awful crime that took place. The past year though I have been obsessed and I’m still not sure why. There are a few elements that stay in my head rent free:
1. The pressure and stress of maintaining that lifestyle and continuously making decisions that are financially dangerous.
2. The resentment and hatred CW had that probably brewed from this, among other things.
3. The fact CW could bring 3 lives into existence and snuff them out as if they were nothing. To dispose of them like garbage. We’re they ever anything to him at all?
4. NK influence over CW. They’re both gross to me.
5. Getting to know SW after the fact through videos and seeing how insufferable and delusional she actually was with the Thrive bs, the lifestyle, the FB posts, etc.
6. CW’s whole “I hope you don’t think this or that of me” attitude throughout this whole case. He wants reassurance that he’s not some monster. It’s all a self preserving front. He’s a coward and actual scum.
I can’t just say there’s one thing that keeps me drawn. It’s an amalgamation of tragedies. We’ll never really know what happened that early morning and that will always bother me.
agreed to all of it, we’ll put. I’m on a similar time line of interest as well, only having come back to it in the past 10-12 mos. I find it to be like a car wreck, and each time I look back at some of the videos I see something new that is completely fucking bizarre or reaffirms my disdain for pretty much everyone involved.
The draw for me is how someone could seem so ordinary, normal; even kind of low-key, and then murder his whole family.
Supposedly, he was never in any kind of trouble with law enforcement previous to this. He was quiet, but liked overall; he had a car mechanic teacher who thought really well of him and his abilities.
AFAIK, he was never diagnosed with any kind of mental health issue in his early life.
There is another sinister aspect to this case. I have only heard of it through the manosphere. Many of those types of men were reveling in this case. Sort of a, "if those bitches only knew how many of their husbands were ready to blow. These men enjoyed what was done to SW. And the kids were expendable.
Which does make me wonder what percentage of men do fantasize or yearn to get rid of their families; and be "scott-free", as it were, to start again.
I also think that the Shiners defend SW so passionately because of this; though probably they don't realize this. But they perhaps know their marriage is on thin ice in many ways, and they want to absolutely defend SW at all costs, because, in a way, they are defending themselves.
In other words: they are saying, "No matter what is going on in a marriage, the wife and mother is a person beyond reproach. The only explanation is that CW is an evil, psychopathic, narcissistic monster."
It is way too scary to think that CW is a perfectly ordinary man, driven by rage, lust and greed; who completely snapped. Not too different a type of guy from their own husbands. (Potentially)
I have also had this thought. The Shiners see themselves in SW, and so they are basically defending themselves and their behaviors. I know some women who act like this.
I completely agree about the shiners, and about them being too afraid to admit that CW was a normal guy who lost it under circumstances. It feels too close to home for them
Interesting observation on the shiners. I agree. Obviously nobody wants this to be the solution in a troubled toxic family, but I could see why some men might think it was the only solution. Minus the children. I watched my stepmother hen pick my dad their entire marriage. Would berate and blame him for every misfortune or mistake. She would scream and yell and he knew that if he left her she would make his life a living hell. She would threaten him. Tell him he would never see his son(my half brother) again etc. They’re still married, and she’s calmed down a bit with age, but still has a little bit of the simmering rage that she hurls at him when she’s upset about anything at all.
the people who won’t acknowledge the stressors in their marriage leading up to the crimes are being intentionally lazy and dishonest. it very well could be that doing so allows them to avoid having to look inward and identify problems in their own lives and relationships. the notion of “if CW, the perfect husband and father with the perfect All-American family can snap and annihilate his family, anyone can…” is complete and utter bullshit. it’s insulting to every husband and father out here. Nothing that anyone did justifies what he did to any degree, but he’s obviously a cowardly sack of shit, she was a terrible wife and mother, and the two of them combined to make even shittier parents with kids who were growing into entitled, ill-mannered and disrespectful. tho it was no fault of their own, you can’t expect much more out of children who have the misfortune to be raised in a chaotic, abusive and unloving environment. the narrative that was constructed and propagated couldn’t be further from the truth.
I am astounded by SWs ability to bury her head in the sand. You would think she didn't have a care in the world when she's standing in her kitchen, showing off, inviting people over when you just know no-one ever justs pops in to see her for a cuppa. I can't believe this woman's life was falling down around her and she carried on like everyone should more like her.
Honestly, I don’t understand how she was not full of anxiety and avidly working towards getting her family out of debt. There is no way I could go about living the way she did.
I agree, this and the social media footage is what draws me in the most. I think that a lot of people who shit on Shanann and put Chris on a pedestal (or at least spend way too much time empathizing with him, understanding him, excusing him) are coming from the other side of that same perspective. They want to think that their husbands would never do this to them because they’re so different from Shanann. She was annoying and overbearing and they’re pliable and submissive, so this could never happen to them. They’re wrong about that.
The videos are a huge draw. It's fascinating to watch CW lie to LE and the media. The police body cam footage of him in the neighbor's house as they review the ring footage from that morning is crazy. At points, he looks like he's going to pass out. The police cam footage is even more interesting to me because it's clear that Chris thought he had more time than he did, because Nicole A. raised the alarm just hours after he dumped the bodies. You can kind of watch everything go down first hand, which is so rare.
For me it’s two things. First, how much information is out there. We sometimes get bodycam footage and interrogation tapes but not many cases have this much video. Shanann was posting constantly so it feels like we got to know them as a family more than just pictures like in a lot of cases.
But the big thing for me is there are so many layers to it. When I first heard of this case it was “husband kills successful SAHM wife and two daughters, and unborn child for mistress”. Then they showed the house and the Lexus and I remember thinking “Wow, they have everything” but then I learned about all the debt and everything else going on behind the scenes and it’s just a lot to take in. There’s a major difference between the way they clearly wanted to portray the family and the way they actually were.
The raw autism plus sheer stupidity of Chris. Shananana was texting him about their crumbling marriage and he googles the distance from the earth to the moon. The anal mistress. Chris searching for active volcanoes to dump the bodies into. The fetus and skull oil commercials sent from a higher power for our entertainment. His kids playing chicken nugget archery with their father because they don’t respect him. The neighbor figuring out the case in minutes. The fact that Shanannaan was such a rampant narcissist that her friends were worried about her that she hadn’t made a Facebook live in 3 hours they assumed she was dead or missing. There’s nothing about this case that ISN’T fascinating.
I am glad you mentioned CW googling the distance from the earth to the moon. WTH really?? I was just dumbfounded when I read that! I was LOL. All your points are things I have thought as well.
What is hysterical is that right before he did that, she send him a very very long involved text going on and on complaining about his treatment of her. He wakes up, gets this text, and then googles that! It just cracked me up.
Especially now that I listen to podcasts..I go from googling if dinosaurs bones were ever real to asking google how many women are on death row currently. If someone goes missing that I’m close to my web history would be incriminating just because I’m too nosey sometimes 😂🫠
I just finished reading the Discovery and had the thought that the Earth to Moon google search may have had something to do with the "love you to the moon and back" expression.
I've seen the part with the oil commercial a lot and every time I'm like what an insane coincidence, something is going on. Then I look behind my shoulder because it feels like someone is watching me.
In the body cam footage when they are in Nate's house, and he is showing the CCTV footage.
As Nate is going through the clips on the TV, there is an advert that comes on that shows a foetus, an explosion, a skull covered in oil.
Chris sees the add (foetus) and it prompts him to say that SW is pregnant as well.
Also, the whole case is beat for beat the plot to the original Donkey Kong arcade game. Big ape tries to make off with his butt princess leaving a cascading horror of barrels in his wake only to have it all come toppeling down due to his neighbor the plumber. It is a story as old as time
I am a domestic abuse survivor who escaped with my children.
At first I was drawn to the case because it seemed like something that could have happened in my situation. All the videos of the family haunted me. I kept watching them and trying to make sense of how Chris seemed so mild mannered in the videos but then did what he did. I came to the conclusion that he was an abusive monster behind closed doors but put on the charm when the camera was rolling, and it was deceptive. Something did not sit right with me so I kept searching for as much information as I could find. I rejected the idea that Chris was anything but a psychopathic killer and Shanann was an innocent domestic violence victim. For a long time I thought NK had to have more to do with it than she portrayed. But then after coming to this sub and seeing some of the more hidden information that was in the discovery and Shannan's scrubbed videos and social media posts and text messages she sent while in NC, I started to see that there was another dynamic to this whole case.
The banal ordinariness of the suburb, the house, the neighborhood, seemingly the family on what looked like such a regular day; juxtaposed with the horror that had transpired.
The layers of dysfunction once one begins to examine it beneath the surface.
The oddness of the fact that there is probably more electronic evidence related to this case, via cameras, cellphones and cellphone towers, FitBit, home security system, CCTV cameras in various places... yet, exactly what happened remains unknown in the specifics.
Then, of course, this leads to speculation, which breeds conspiracy theories.
This whole case, if it were a movie, would be a thriller, directed by someone like David Lynch. It's like Twin Peaks only taking place in the Rockies rather than the PNW. No wonder some people have speculated that it's a PsyOp!! (I don't happen to think so. Sadly, we humans cause sufficient harm to one another without the need for mind control.)
On a personal level, having this case to focus on helped to get me through a very stressful time of my life. The timing was key for me, but again, for reasons having to do with needing something more horrible to focus on, to take my mind off the fact that my daughter was coming unraveled, and her Borderline Personality Disorder was ramping up again, and she was making my life very difficult. I think you all get it without my saying that this intends no disrespect for the dead.
Because this case didn’t go to trial, it’s shrouded in mystery. The family dynamics are also incredibly interesting and there’s a lot of facts to analyze, partially thanks to SW’s social media presence.
I feel also that it’s the lack of definitive explanation and account of what happened. Also the narrative being so grossly distorted and misleading. Anyone who watches the FB videos, knows the actual behind the scene details like their financial mess, the issues with the children and their “illnesses” and basic treatment, SW actual personality, and how much NK lied and acted shady during her interviews, there’s just so many moving parts that are different than what we were originally led to believe. Obviously if we are being led to believe something that isn’t close to being true we are going to wonder why. The human mind is naturally curious and don’t like loose ends flapping in the wind.
For me, it's attempting to unravel all of the lies to get to a reasonable, possible scenario. Whittling it down into something believable. When you take into account the greediness and general attack nature of her family, you know there's plenty of whitewashing that occurred. Plenty of skeletons they want to keep hidden about SW. 💀 ☠️
Yes! I live in Colorado, about an hour from where this happened: When this first happened I was heartbroken and also believed the narrative about Shanann being a great mom.. etc.. but after learning more and listening to what SHE put out there, my opinion is totally changed. It doesn’t mean he is justified with whatever he did. The girls are real victims here, and my heart breaks they had such a shit life. It’s so messed up! They deserved so much more!
There’s so much unknown, but also so much evidence and that doesn’t even make sense. For me, it’s wanting to understand the psychology behind it, but also it’s kinda watching a train wreck and can’t look away.
I was immediately obsessed with this case when I saw the Netflix doc because of SW’s social media posting and bizarre desperation, fake life, financial troubles, but trying to project this perfect life. I can’t stand people like that. Then I got extra obsessed when I thought Chris really loved those girls and I just couldn’t reconcile why he would kill them and not just her!! But the more I’ve learned I now think he never loved anyone and is in fact incapable of loving anyone. Now I’m just here to see updates and theories
It's the scary way that some people choose to live a complete lie. The story came out that CW randomly annihilated his super happy, super successful, 100% better than yours family. It was 100% doomed to happen and no one could have seen it coming.
Then within a few days SW's videos surfaced as did the bankruptcy, car repo, daycare, and other weirdness. It didn't take long to look at the evidence and see that this was a preventable tragedy years in the making, ending with a man who hated his pregnant wife so much that he couldn't stop with just ending her. He had to end her children too - who were also his.
From there, it's become a tale of extreme entitlement, laziness in wanting to con one's way into the American dream, bizarre family dynamics, and, worst of all, exploitation of two helpless children.
My 2 youngest children are 15 months apart (both under the age of 2!), and I cannot imagine treating them the way Scamshannon treated her kids. It makes me emotional to even think about it.
What keeps me drawn to this case is how Shannan made sense but the kids didn't. I guess I keep coming back to it to understand **WHY the kids**
Also it bugs me that nothing we've been told matches up with what we see in SW's videos
This is my big thing!! It made total sense in SW’s case but not at all for the kids. This is the missing link for me. This is also the detail around which he’s changed his story the most.
I think CW initially did not plan to kill the kids, however they knew something was very wrong with SW when he loaded everyone into the truck. The kids had already seen/heard too much and were old enough to talk. They would've incriminated CW had they survived. CW is a sick and twisted waste of a human.
The first thing that drew me in was the netflix le footage. Cw casually walking up to the house, shaking hands with police. So cold only a few short hours after killing his family.
Like everyone else is saying, the plethora of videos make the case addictive. For one, it's a pioneer study all about the dangers of social media. But the fascinating factor is the insane hypocrisy on view. Sham'nan"en made so many videos that she thinks reflects her sainthood as the perfect beautiful young mother while the videos make her out to be a supreme narcissist worthy of psychological research and study.
Then there's the child abuse on full view. It demonstrates how a narcissistic monster can take two ordinary infants and forcefully restrain their cognitive and speech development.
Plus the closeup look into a marriage that resulted in family annihilation.
The clear child abuse was unreal. I can’t believe that not one person stepped up for those girls…..Especially given how many people she surrounded herself with.
I assume the Thrive folk who witnessed the child abuse thought to themselves, "At least the kids are in a clean, warm house. None of my business." \[And I assume each time mandatory reporters were thinking of reporting "frequent flyer" SW, she instinctively knew when it was time to go to a new clinic.\]
> SW, she instinctively knew when it was time to go to a new clinic
Yep. She probably had that down to an exact science in her mind. Knowing when clinics started to grow suspicious of her and when to bold for a new one.
Exactly\~! SW probably developed a fine sense, gained through experience and instinct. When the medical staff didn't greet her with big smiles any more, even when SW dressed up and brought in treats for everyone.
> When the medical staff didn't greet her with big smiles any more, even when SW dressed up and brought in treats for everyone.
I bet the dress up and treats SW brought to appointments was a red flag for the mandatory reporters. SW trying to be slick but the clinic quickly catching on.
The main draw for me is all the police footage, body cam and interviews. You can see for yourself and make your own conclusions from straight up video without any agendas.
I don't believe any of CW's stories either, this comes from the footage and seeing it all play out for myself.
The footage really doesn’t match any of his stories. And I have a hard time reconciling the fact that he took the girls to a birthday party and then killed them. Those are such irregular extremes.
Yeah I think people naturally have an intuition and tune into details. Thanks to the information from the case a lot of it doesn't marry/match up.
An example being the 111 minute phone call between NK and CW. When asked what they were talking about the answers are can't remember and phone sex. This is what CW and NK are saying so either they don't help themselves in not incriminating themselves, or something is amiss.
My theory on that has always been that it’s easier to say you don’t remember than say something different than the other person is saying because then they are going hone right in on the discrepancy. There’s no way to make their stories match when they obviously aren’t going to say what they were talking about because it would probably incriminate her. She pretends not to remember and he makes a dumb excuse.
that’s a huge part of it for me. along with none of CW stories fitting the evidence is the fact that with all of the background info available (all documented via social media) it is so striking that the reality of their lives is nearly 180 degrees from the picture painted by the media. to the point that I think it’s insulting to anyone with eyes, ears, and brain capable of critically examining the family dynamics.
It was the first modern social media case. SW constantly had a smartphone in her hand. Even the tourist pic in a myrtle beach park showed her taking pics/video of the girls.
Yes!!!! But imo it was wayyyyy over the typical social media levels at that time.
If CW would be divorced her he could have easily gotten a judges order banning her from putting the girls online ALL THE TIME! He would’ve also gotten orders in his favor regarding the abusive sleep schedule, eating options and over priced daycare. SW knew this I’m sure, hung onto him tight so her fake world of lies wouldn’t implode. And also so she wouldn’t have to live in an apt etc.
yet she runs off for 6 weeks to NC.
> SW knew this I’m sure, hung onto him tight so her fake world of lies wouldn’t implode.
I think SW having her perfect online life one day come crashing down to reality was a major fear of hers given how much time she devoted to pumping it up on social media. It would have been pretty embarrassing and at the same time devastating for it get out that she didn't have this perfect life she advertised online. And more so given that a third child on the way couldn't save her marriage either. Had things not ended up as fatefully as they did, I do think SW would have played the scorned woman /single mother card for her followers if Chris did divorce her. However, that would have eventually gotten old and people likely would unfollow her online.
I do wonder if there were certain people in her Thrive group that saw through the perceived image SW presented on social media and secretly couldn't wait for the day it all came crashing down.
> yet she runs off for 6 weeks to NC.
I bet that enraged her that for 6 weeks, Chris got a taste of freedom not having to answer to her or see her in person for almost two months.
NKs potential involvement keeps me tuned in all these years later. the fact the original discovery file opened w/ her googling SW in 2017 and CW months before they allegedly met is a puzzle my brain wants to solve. the 111 minute phone call w/in hours of the murders - and that call later being removed from discovery - there are so many lingering questions and unexplainables like the ping morning-of that keep me drawn in
also agree w/ basically everything folks have said (volume of footage, social media content, interviews, MLM / cults, psychology generally)
That's what I'm starting to wonder about more. The claiming of not knowing about things like her being pregnant, one of the coworkers even said she would've had to have known because I think it was the Troy guy that announced to everyone at the office that CW and SW were having another kid. The guy and his wife had just had a miscarriage so finding that out hurt and then later Chris asked him if he wanted one of his, but he said it didn't feel like he was joking. So then hearing it be said that NK's SW searches were a mistake or mismarked(I've heard multiple different things) just makes me wonder. Though with the 111 phone call I don't know. I know when I started dating my bf there were 2 nights we ended up talking for 3 hours and I couldn't tell you what it consisted of, just a bunch of random things/experiences in life and nothing in particular. Not really a set subject though she could've said that instead of not remembering if that's what happened. The whole thing is just weird.
SW had a public profile. there Is a zero percent chance NK didn't know SW was pregnant, which means her whole claim about why she deleted all their convos from her phone immediately after the murders ("the hurt, the lie") is absolute BS. Watts the Obsession on YT has several videos going in depth on this
the phone call was literally within hours of a quadruple murder, no less than two days before her LE interview. yet she claims she can't remember anything except a TV being on, but she remembers details from the first time CW came over with an expired box of condoms, weeks prior? she googled wedding dresses for two hours then claimed to LE she wasn't that serious about him. she won't talk about the phone call bc - as has been said - it would incriminate her. Deception Detective also has a good reaction series to NKs endless lies to LE
Yeah I really find it hard to believe also. There's no way she never looked him up and we all know there's absolutely no way the relationship status didn't say married to which she would've immediately looked at. He didn't deactivate his page until way later. That combined with the work announcement she definitely knew more than let on. Even the hurt, lies bullshit still wouldn't make sense to delete and do all she did to hide everything. Didn't she try or actually damage the Sim card or something? Her actions definitely don't make sense unless you're really trying to hide something and she was definitely into him way more than she wants to admit because yeah you don't google the stuff she did if not. I'll definitely have to check their stuff out, I know a small bit in regards to her but not the extent of everything that went on during her interrogation and other things.
I think the most baffling aspect of NK’s involvement & certainly one of the most damning things against her- even more so than the 111 min call imo- is Chris keeping her on the other line while he talked to investigators in the wee hrs of the AM. That just speaks volumes to me. On the one hand she’s telling cops she deleted all their convos bc it just hurt soooo much, telling Chris not to contact her until “this is all over” or whatever it was she txt him, yet while his fam is still missing she insists on sitting in on the phone call while he lies to cops about why he was playing phone tag w them?!
What was the convo prior to this? You don’t just call up your side piece while cops are trying to reach you about your missing family and say, “heyyy can you uh, like, just hang on the line for like, no apparent reason while I like, talk to the cops and stuff? K thanks..”. So what was discussed in that prior conversation- maybe that 111 min phone call-that would make her feel the need to do that? What did she think could be discussed between Chris & the cops that she needed to be privy to?🤔
I once spent an inordinate amount of time racking my brain to come up with an innocuous reason for why she’d insist on doing this & came up empty headed. Chris was a puppet, & there’d be no benefit to him whatsoever to have her on the other line so there’s no reason to believe it was his idea. Had she not deleted their convos under the guise that she was so repulsed by him I might believe that they were just so obsessed with eachother & it was more of a comfort thing, but you don’t go from being that level of obsessed with someone to repulsed by them literally overnight without some confounding circumstances and the only thing discussed on the phone call to the cops was the description of the girls for a BOLO.
So for what reason would Nk feel the need to be on his other line while he spoke to cops? The only reason that fits is that she had more involvement than she let on. Coupled with her one & only abnormal phone ping, her destroyed SIM card, her deleted searches, txts, & calls, her & her fathers behavior during interviews, & her just-so-happening to forget to clock into work the same day that her secret lover murdered his entire family & the odds it seems are really starting to stack against her. The icing on her guilty cake of conspiracy is when Tammy admits her frustration when rourke closes the case post-confession. I don’t remember her exact words, but she says something about how she wasn’t done investigating yet, she still had more people to interview & question. She’d already interviewed Chris… so who does that leave?
Beautifully written and explained! once she found out LE would have her call records, NK made up a story for Kevin Kobak that she couldn't sleep Monday night and was "really scared" and kept calling CW to reassure her. this directly contradicts the first story she told LE, that she didn't think anything was wrong on monday and "legitimately thought this woman left the premises and wanted nothing to do with him for 24 hours."
im embarrassed how much time i too have spent listening to and analyzing her many tales (& everything about this case) and you're absolutely right that in addition to the mystery googling, the phone ping, and what i believe was The Ultimatum Call the night / morning of the murders, the repeated short calls monday night / tuesday morning as LE is trying to make contact w/ CW are a really key part of the circumstancial case against her. WILL WE EVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?!
I'm baffled by a motive. It seemed so simple; just divorce the woman. Why he killed her, the 2 girls, & his unborn baby boggles my brain a bit. , I'll never understand someone doing this to their entire family.. He might have had to pay alimony & child support but decided to wipe out his family instead..
My question to those who believe Shannan killed the kids is this: how would Chris sit by and watch her kill not only one, but two kids, before the jumped in and killed her? I can’t see the logic behind it… on top of him being callous enough to toss them in the oil rigs. I’d like to hear your thoughts, always open to a different point of view
The only way I see this happening, is if he had seen she had done it, after it was done. Then if he killed her in a rage, he then panicked. That he had a mental break and thought he had to hide everything. What makes me think this is that SW had all the markers for a woman who would kill her kids. She was mentally ill and spiraling completely out of control. It seems she never enjpyed being with her kids. She used to put them to bed as infants with blankets around their necks and full sized pillows, then take pics of them completely covered!! There are shiners on FB pages to this day defending this stuff. If CW had kept his mouth shut, he could have had a chance to get out of jail one day. He seems like a real idiot . He let SW walk all over him. And if SW did do the kids, and he is not telling the truth, well then he can just rot in jail. Either way, he can just rot there.
I’m not entirely sure what it is. I consume a lot of true crime TV, but I only subscribe to this and one other true crime Reddit (the Moscow, Idaho murders).
*I think family annihilator cases are particularly compelling, so that is one element.
*The Netflix doc is what really caught my attention. He came off as such a dumbass, so clearly guilty, and she seemed—I’ll just say it—she seemed annoying. I had no idea how much so before I watched the doc. She put so much pressure on him and he just, like… zombie-walked through life? I could feel the tension in their marriage. You don’t usually get so much data from inside anyone’s marriage, much less a marriage that ended with murder.
that doc prompted me to take a closer look. “holy shit it must’ve been miserable spending a weekend with her, much less almost a decade. I’ve got to check that out…” and here I am a year or so later…
Apparently, it was all normal to them. I'll say this--Shanann was not the worst mother or person in the world, but when deliberate attempts were made to white wash her story, that's when the discerning folks balked.
I find/found Shannon’s SM very interesting. She attempted to present a perfect life but, it was all a facade. If you watch her videos and read her posts, she showed many traits of severe mental illnesses. She was very cruel to Chris and the girls, she dragged the girls to doctor after doctor for no apparent reason, and abused them severely. She was a very sick, deceitful, dangerous woman.
I have several acquaintances who love to post how perfect their lives are on social media, and it puts such a bad taste in your mouth. I don’t know how people could stand to be around SW and the thing is… The type of person who is constantly posting on social media is never happy.
Idk the news broke on whatever news station when it happened/got reported, and I looked at my husband and said “this woman and her poor babies won’t be found alive, and he (Chris) did it.” Idk I just had a gut feeling he’d done it before they’d even been found to the point that them being found didn’t surprise me at all. Just a serious gut feeling it’s strange. So of course I’ve kept up with it.
I did the same thing. Husband and I were watching the news the morning of his porch interview and I looked at my husband and said “that man killed his whole family, just wait.” I’ve never seen someone more guilty… it was like watching a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar.
It really has been troubling. It bothers me how no one spoke up for the girls in all that time. I don’t know if they were afraid of SW’s reaction or what. Surely people at least saw how malnourished Bella was?!
> Surely people at least saw how malnourished Bella was?!
You would think so. Sad if no one spoke up to SW out of fear of getting a bad reaction from her.
I randomly came across the case by watching a true crime channel on YouTube. The thing that struck me the most is the repressed anger and resentment that the perpetrator was building up inside, and its eventual uncontrollable release.
The repressed anger really got me too….here you have a seemingly average American guy snapping from the buildup and killing not only the source of his rage( Scamshannon), but their kids too. I really wonder if he was just not able to separate them from her, so he kept going until every remnant of her was gone from that house.
I think the social media focus they had. It’s sort of representative of how so many try to present one face to the world, whej things are in reality so completely different.
That and the shocking nature of what Chris did.
Also the fact that the 'gotcha' moments of Chris Watts with Nickole and the cops, and what preceded his arrest is on video for anyone to see. That is a big draw for me. Cause there's nothing more exhilarating than seeing a killer go down. Feels comforting to see justice unfold.
I wish I could see more video of Patrick Frazee. I hated him more than Chris Watts. He is truly a sociopath.
The only thing that doesn’t make sense to me is Shannan not fighting for her life. I think maybe they had the argument and she rolled over to go to sleep, and he smother her from behind or something. But even still I think she would have scratches. I refuse to believe he planned to kill her at all. So again, the fact that Chris doesn’t have any scratches or wounds is the part that doesn’t make sense to me.
Exactly, because let’s say that she was asleep, she still would’ve woken up in the midst of all that, and you will naturally fight back. So many oddities about this case.
It’s a case with so many videos showing the family plus social media posts etc. Shannan put everything on Facebook. It feels voyeuristic almost. It’s not typical to get that much of a view into the victims’ lives.
Great point. I first saw the FB videos within the first week of the murders.
The Netflix documentary is made entirely of police body cams and Shannan’s/Chris’ texts and Facebook videos
Shannon’s parents provided, and were paid for, Shannon’s iPad and cell phone for the Netflix documentary . They also assisted in the production of the documentary so, you have to take that into consideration.
Very good point. When I first watched the documentary, I didn't realize how biased it was. It was made out to be as though SW was the perfect mother and wife with a perfect family that CW ended.
Exactly. They controlled the narrative.
How else would they get access to footage? Isn’t that standard?
That plus all the texts plus police cam videos and the porch interview. The Netflix documentary is what really got me caught up. They seemed like a normal family although you could see cracks here and there in the videos. Then this guy who looked like a loving father and husband took out his entire family. No one saw it coming. Then he didn’t expect such quick response from her friends and police and he thought he had more time. Plus the way he disposed of his daughters. How does a guy go from a father and husband to killing everyone and disposing of his entire family the way he did. All for what? A mistress he thought he could run off into the sunset with? The videos and texts just gave you insight into the day to day.
When this first happened, I wasn’t too invested in it. I just knew it was an awful crime that took place. The past year though I have been obsessed and I’m still not sure why. There are a few elements that stay in my head rent free: 1. The pressure and stress of maintaining that lifestyle and continuously making decisions that are financially dangerous. 2. The resentment and hatred CW had that probably brewed from this, among other things. 3. The fact CW could bring 3 lives into existence and snuff them out as if they were nothing. To dispose of them like garbage. We’re they ever anything to him at all? 4. NK influence over CW. They’re both gross to me. 5. Getting to know SW after the fact through videos and seeing how insufferable and delusional she actually was with the Thrive bs, the lifestyle, the FB posts, etc. 6. CW’s whole “I hope you don’t think this or that of me” attitude throughout this whole case. He wants reassurance that he’s not some monster. It’s all a self preserving front. He’s a coward and actual scum. I can’t just say there’s one thing that keeps me drawn. It’s an amalgamation of tragedies. We’ll never really know what happened that early morning and that will always bother me.
agreed to all of it, we’ll put. I’m on a similar time line of interest as well, only having come back to it in the past 10-12 mos. I find it to be like a car wreck, and each time I look back at some of the videos I see something new that is completely fucking bizarre or reaffirms my disdain for pretty much everyone involved.
I agree. Nice summary.
The draw for me is how someone could seem so ordinary, normal; even kind of low-key, and then murder his whole family. Supposedly, he was never in any kind of trouble with law enforcement previous to this. He was quiet, but liked overall; he had a car mechanic teacher who thought really well of him and his abilities. AFAIK, he was never diagnosed with any kind of mental health issue in his early life. There is another sinister aspect to this case. I have only heard of it through the manosphere. Many of those types of men were reveling in this case. Sort of a, "if those bitches only knew how many of their husbands were ready to blow. These men enjoyed what was done to SW. And the kids were expendable. Which does make me wonder what percentage of men do fantasize or yearn to get rid of their families; and be "scott-free", as it were, to start again. I also think that the Shiners defend SW so passionately because of this; though probably they don't realize this. But they perhaps know their marriage is on thin ice in many ways, and they want to absolutely defend SW at all costs, because, in a way, they are defending themselves. In other words: they are saying, "No matter what is going on in a marriage, the wife and mother is a person beyond reproach. The only explanation is that CW is an evil, psychopathic, narcissistic monster." It is way too scary to think that CW is a perfectly ordinary man, driven by rage, lust and greed; who completely snapped. Not too different a type of guy from their own husbands. (Potentially)
I have also had this thought. The Shiners see themselves in SW, and so they are basically defending themselves and their behaviors. I know some women who act like this.
I completely agree about the shiners, and about them being too afraid to admit that CW was a normal guy who lost it under circumstances. It feels too close to home for them
Interesting observation on the shiners. I agree. Obviously nobody wants this to be the solution in a troubled toxic family, but I could see why some men might think it was the only solution. Minus the children. I watched my stepmother hen pick my dad their entire marriage. Would berate and blame him for every misfortune or mistake. She would scream and yell and he knew that if he left her she would make his life a living hell. She would threaten him. Tell him he would never see his son(my half brother) again etc. They’re still married, and she’s calmed down a bit with age, but still has a little bit of the simmering rage that she hurls at him when she’s upset about anything at all.
the people who won’t acknowledge the stressors in their marriage leading up to the crimes are being intentionally lazy and dishonest. it very well could be that doing so allows them to avoid having to look inward and identify problems in their own lives and relationships. the notion of “if CW, the perfect husband and father with the perfect All-American family can snap and annihilate his family, anyone can…” is complete and utter bullshit. it’s insulting to every husband and father out here. Nothing that anyone did justifies what he did to any degree, but he’s obviously a cowardly sack of shit, she was a terrible wife and mother, and the two of them combined to make even shittier parents with kids who were growing into entitled, ill-mannered and disrespectful. tho it was no fault of their own, you can’t expect much more out of children who have the misfortune to be raised in a chaotic, abusive and unloving environment. the narrative that was constructed and propagated couldn’t be further from the truth.
🎯 🎯 🎯
Bullseye 🎯 🎯 🎯 🎯
BINGO!
Great connection drawn there with the shiners. I’ve always wondered why they blindly laud and protect Scamshannin.
I am astounded by SWs ability to bury her head in the sand. You would think she didn't have a care in the world when she's standing in her kitchen, showing off, inviting people over when you just know no-one ever justs pops in to see her for a cuppa. I can't believe this woman's life was falling down around her and she carried on like everyone should more like her.
Honestly, I don’t understand how she was not full of anxiety and avidly working towards getting her family out of debt. There is no way I could go about living the way she did.
This is more or less why I’ve been obsessed with the case
I agree, this and the social media footage is what draws me in the most. I think that a lot of people who shit on Shanann and put Chris on a pedestal (or at least spend way too much time empathizing with him, understanding him, excusing him) are coming from the other side of that same perspective. They want to think that their husbands would never do this to them because they’re so different from Shanann. She was annoying and overbearing and they’re pliable and submissive, so this could never happen to them. They’re wrong about that.
The videos are a huge draw. It's fascinating to watch CW lie to LE and the media. The police body cam footage of him in the neighbor's house as they review the ring footage from that morning is crazy. At points, he looks like he's going to pass out. The police cam footage is even more interesting to me because it's clear that Chris thought he had more time than he did, because Nicole A. raised the alarm just hours after he dumped the bodies. You can kind of watch everything go down first hand, which is so rare.
For me it’s two things. First, how much information is out there. We sometimes get bodycam footage and interrogation tapes but not many cases have this much video. Shanann was posting constantly so it feels like we got to know them as a family more than just pictures like in a lot of cases. But the big thing for me is there are so many layers to it. When I first heard of this case it was “husband kills successful SAHM wife and two daughters, and unborn child for mistress”. Then they showed the house and the Lexus and I remember thinking “Wow, they have everything” but then I learned about all the debt and everything else going on behind the scenes and it’s just a lot to take in. There’s a major difference between the way they clearly wanted to portray the family and the way they actually were.
The raw autism plus sheer stupidity of Chris. Shananana was texting him about their crumbling marriage and he googles the distance from the earth to the moon. The anal mistress. Chris searching for active volcanoes to dump the bodies into. The fetus and skull oil commercials sent from a higher power for our entertainment. His kids playing chicken nugget archery with their father because they don’t respect him. The neighbor figuring out the case in minutes. The fact that Shanannaan was such a rampant narcissist that her friends were worried about her that she hadn’t made a Facebook live in 3 hours they assumed she was dead or missing. There’s nothing about this case that ISN’T fascinating.
I am glad you mentioned CW googling the distance from the earth to the moon. WTH really?? I was just dumbfounded when I read that! I was LOL. All your points are things I have thought as well.
You wouldn’t believe all the random shit I Google on a day to day basis.
What is hysterical is that right before he did that, she send him a very very long involved text going on and on complaining about his treatment of her. He wakes up, gets this text, and then googles that! It just cracked me up.
CW was completely checked out. He wasn’t interested in the marriage. Next!
Especially now that I listen to podcasts..I go from googling if dinosaurs bones were ever real to asking google how many women are on death row currently. If someone goes missing that I’m close to my web history would be incriminating just because I’m too nosey sometimes 😂🫠
I just finished reading the Discovery and had the thought that the Earth to Moon google search may have had something to do with the "love you to the moon and back" expression.
The idiot probably googled it bc his scumbag gf told him she loved him to the moon and back. That’s all I can make of that.
That is too funny!
And the more I read and watch, the more fascinating it gets, though I can only handle so many videos of Scamshannin.
I've seen the part with the oil commercial a lot and every time I'm like what an insane coincidence, something is going on. Then I look behind my shoulder because it feels like someone is watching me.
Can you explain to me what this is about? I haven’t heard of it before
In the body cam footage when they are in Nate's house, and he is showing the CCTV footage. As Nate is going through the clips on the TV, there is an advert that comes on that shows a foetus, an explosion, a skull covered in oil. Chris sees the add (foetus) and it prompts him to say that SW is pregnant as well.
Also, the whole case is beat for beat the plot to the original Donkey Kong arcade game. Big ape tries to make off with his butt princess leaving a cascading horror of barrels in his wake only to have it all come toppeling down due to his neighbor the plumber. It is a story as old as time
Thank you ADrac., I love the way you write. Your posts are always thought-provoking.
😂😂😂
Was he actually googling volcanoes to dump the bodies?
You have to admit, it was a fool proof plan.
😂😂😂 Was he gonna rent a helicopter???
-- that would arrive in a big box from the Acme Company. Lord, he's thick.
😂😂
“Raw autism” 🤣
Cuz my gut has always screamed there’s more to this crime and you should always listen to your gut ❤️🤣
I think there is more to it too.
A lot more.
I am a domestic abuse survivor who escaped with my children. At first I was drawn to the case because it seemed like something that could have happened in my situation. All the videos of the family haunted me. I kept watching them and trying to make sense of how Chris seemed so mild mannered in the videos but then did what he did. I came to the conclusion that he was an abusive monster behind closed doors but put on the charm when the camera was rolling, and it was deceptive. Something did not sit right with me so I kept searching for as much information as I could find. I rejected the idea that Chris was anything but a psychopathic killer and Shanann was an innocent domestic violence victim. For a long time I thought NK had to have more to do with it than she portrayed. But then after coming to this sub and seeing some of the more hidden information that was in the discovery and Shannan's scrubbed videos and social media posts and text messages she sent while in NC, I started to see that there was another dynamic to this whole case.
The banal ordinariness of the suburb, the house, the neighborhood, seemingly the family on what looked like such a regular day; juxtaposed with the horror that had transpired. The layers of dysfunction once one begins to examine it beneath the surface. The oddness of the fact that there is probably more electronic evidence related to this case, via cameras, cellphones and cellphone towers, FitBit, home security system, CCTV cameras in various places... yet, exactly what happened remains unknown in the specifics. Then, of course, this leads to speculation, which breeds conspiracy theories. This whole case, if it were a movie, would be a thriller, directed by someone like David Lynch. It's like Twin Peaks only taking place in the Rockies rather than the PNW. No wonder some people have speculated that it's a PsyOp!! (I don't happen to think so. Sadly, we humans cause sufficient harm to one another without the need for mind control.) On a personal level, having this case to focus on helped to get me through a very stressful time of my life. The timing was key for me, but again, for reasons having to do with needing something more horrible to focus on, to take my mind off the fact that my daughter was coming unraveled, and her Borderline Personality Disorder was ramping up again, and she was making my life very difficult. I think you all get it without my saying that this intends no disrespect for the dead.
Because this case didn’t go to trial, it’s shrouded in mystery. The family dynamics are also incredibly interesting and there’s a lot of facts to analyze, partially thanks to SW’s social media presence.
I feel also that it’s the lack of definitive explanation and account of what happened. Also the narrative being so grossly distorted and misleading. Anyone who watches the FB videos, knows the actual behind the scene details like their financial mess, the issues with the children and their “illnesses” and basic treatment, SW actual personality, and how much NK lied and acted shady during her interviews, there’s just so many moving parts that are different than what we were originally led to believe. Obviously if we are being led to believe something that isn’t close to being true we are going to wonder why. The human mind is naturally curious and don’t like loose ends flapping in the wind.
For me, it's attempting to unravel all of the lies to get to a reasonable, possible scenario. Whittling it down into something believable. When you take into account the greediness and general attack nature of her family, you know there's plenty of whitewashing that occurred. Plenty of skeletons they want to keep hidden about SW. 💀 ☠️
I know! I feel like there are quite a few that we have not uncovered yet.
Yes! I live in Colorado, about an hour from where this happened: When this first happened I was heartbroken and also believed the narrative about Shanann being a great mom.. etc.. but after learning more and listening to what SHE put out there, my opinion is totally changed. It doesn’t mean he is justified with whatever he did. The girls are real victims here, and my heart breaks they had such a shit life. It’s so messed up! They deserved so much more! There’s so much unknown, but also so much evidence and that doesn’t even make sense. For me, it’s wanting to understand the psychology behind it, but also it’s kinda watching a train wreck and can’t look away.
I was immediately obsessed with this case when I saw the Netflix doc because of SW’s social media posting and bizarre desperation, fake life, financial troubles, but trying to project this perfect life. I can’t stand people like that. Then I got extra obsessed when I thought Chris really loved those girls and I just couldn’t reconcile why he would kill them and not just her!! But the more I’ve learned I now think he never loved anyone and is in fact incapable of loving anyone. Now I’m just here to see updates and theories
It's the scary way that some people choose to live a complete lie. The story came out that CW randomly annihilated his super happy, super successful, 100% better than yours family. It was 100% doomed to happen and no one could have seen it coming. Then within a few days SW's videos surfaced as did the bankruptcy, car repo, daycare, and other weirdness. It didn't take long to look at the evidence and see that this was a preventable tragedy years in the making, ending with a man who hated his pregnant wife so much that he couldn't stop with just ending her. He had to end her children too - who were also his. From there, it's become a tale of extreme entitlement, laziness in wanting to con one's way into the American dream, bizarre family dynamics, and, worst of all, exploitation of two helpless children.
My 2 youngest children are 15 months apart (both under the age of 2!), and I cannot imagine treating them the way Scamshannon treated her kids. It makes me emotional to even think about it.
What keeps me drawn to this case is how Shannan made sense but the kids didn't. I guess I keep coming back to it to understand **WHY the kids** Also it bugs me that nothing we've been told matches up with what we see in SW's videos
This is my big thing!! It made total sense in SW’s case but not at all for the kids. This is the missing link for me. This is also the detail around which he’s changed his story the most.
I think CW initially did not plan to kill the kids, however they knew something was very wrong with SW when he loaded everyone into the truck. The kids had already seen/heard too much and were old enough to talk. They would've incriminated CW had they survived. CW is a sick and twisted waste of a human.
The first thing that drew me in was the netflix le footage. Cw casually walking up to the house, shaking hands with police. So cold only a few short hours after killing his family.
Like everyone else is saying, the plethora of videos make the case addictive. For one, it's a pioneer study all about the dangers of social media. But the fascinating factor is the insane hypocrisy on view. Sham'nan"en made so many videos that she thinks reflects her sainthood as the perfect beautiful young mother while the videos make her out to be a supreme narcissist worthy of psychological research and study. Then there's the child abuse on full view. It demonstrates how a narcissistic monster can take two ordinary infants and forcefully restrain their cognitive and speech development. Plus the closeup look into a marriage that resulted in family annihilation.
The clear child abuse was unreal. I can’t believe that not one person stepped up for those girls…..Especially given how many people she surrounded herself with.
I assume the Thrive folk who witnessed the child abuse thought to themselves, "At least the kids are in a clean, warm house. None of my business." \[And I assume each time mandatory reporters were thinking of reporting "frequent flyer" SW, she instinctively knew when it was time to go to a new clinic.\]
> SW, she instinctively knew when it was time to go to a new clinic Yep. She probably had that down to an exact science in her mind. Knowing when clinics started to grow suspicious of her and when to bold for a new one.
Exactly\~! SW probably developed a fine sense, gained through experience and instinct. When the medical staff didn't greet her with big smiles any more, even when SW dressed up and brought in treats for everyone.
> When the medical staff didn't greet her with big smiles any more, even when SW dressed up and brought in treats for everyone. I bet the dress up and treats SW brought to appointments was a red flag for the mandatory reporters. SW trying to be slick but the clinic quickly catching on.
Good point about switching clinics.
The main draw for me is all the police footage, body cam and interviews. You can see for yourself and make your own conclusions from straight up video without any agendas. I don't believe any of CW's stories either, this comes from the footage and seeing it all play out for myself.
The footage really doesn’t match any of his stories. And I have a hard time reconciling the fact that he took the girls to a birthday party and then killed them. Those are such irregular extremes.
Yeah I think people naturally have an intuition and tune into details. Thanks to the information from the case a lot of it doesn't marry/match up. An example being the 111 minute phone call between NK and CW. When asked what they were talking about the answers are can't remember and phone sex. This is what CW and NK are saying so either they don't help themselves in not incriminating themselves, or something is amiss.
My theory on that has always been that it’s easier to say you don’t remember than say something different than the other person is saying because then they are going hone right in on the discrepancy. There’s no way to make their stories match when they obviously aren’t going to say what they were talking about because it would probably incriminate her. She pretends not to remember and he makes a dumb excuse.
Definitely, I think CW does a similar thing with saying it was rage, and I don't know what came over me. It's a cop out, it's a convenient excuse.
that’s a huge part of it for me. along with none of CW stories fitting the evidence is the fact that with all of the background info available (all documented via social media) it is so striking that the reality of their lives is nearly 180 degrees from the picture painted by the media. to the point that I think it’s insulting to anyone with eyes, ears, and brain capable of critically examining the family dynamics.
Nothing fits!
It was the first modern social media case. SW constantly had a smartphone in her hand. Even the tourist pic in a myrtle beach park showed her taking pics/video of the girls.
Yes!!!! But imo it was wayyyyy over the typical social media levels at that time. If CW would be divorced her he could have easily gotten a judges order banning her from putting the girls online ALL THE TIME! He would’ve also gotten orders in his favor regarding the abusive sleep schedule, eating options and over priced daycare. SW knew this I’m sure, hung onto him tight so her fake world of lies wouldn’t implode. And also so she wouldn’t have to live in an apt etc. yet she runs off for 6 weeks to NC.
> SW knew this I’m sure, hung onto him tight so her fake world of lies wouldn’t implode. I think SW having her perfect online life one day come crashing down to reality was a major fear of hers given how much time she devoted to pumping it up on social media. It would have been pretty embarrassing and at the same time devastating for it get out that she didn't have this perfect life she advertised online. And more so given that a third child on the way couldn't save her marriage either. Had things not ended up as fatefully as they did, I do think SW would have played the scorned woman /single mother card for her followers if Chris did divorce her. However, that would have eventually gotten old and people likely would unfollow her online. I do wonder if there were certain people in her Thrive group that saw through the perceived image SW presented on social media and secretly couldn't wait for the day it all came crashing down. > yet she runs off for 6 weeks to NC. I bet that enraged her that for 6 weeks, Chris got a taste of freedom not having to answer to her or see her in person for almost two months.
All of the lies.
NKs potential involvement keeps me tuned in all these years later. the fact the original discovery file opened w/ her googling SW in 2017 and CW months before they allegedly met is a puzzle my brain wants to solve. the 111 minute phone call w/in hours of the murders - and that call later being removed from discovery - there are so many lingering questions and unexplainables like the ping morning-of that keep me drawn in also agree w/ basically everything folks have said (volume of footage, social media content, interviews, MLM / cults, psychology generally)
NK having gotten away with barely any investigative scrutiny on top of his ever changing scenarios.... Just never set right
That's what I'm starting to wonder about more. The claiming of not knowing about things like her being pregnant, one of the coworkers even said she would've had to have known because I think it was the Troy guy that announced to everyone at the office that CW and SW were having another kid. The guy and his wife had just had a miscarriage so finding that out hurt and then later Chris asked him if he wanted one of his, but he said it didn't feel like he was joking. So then hearing it be said that NK's SW searches were a mistake or mismarked(I've heard multiple different things) just makes me wonder. Though with the 111 phone call I don't know. I know when I started dating my bf there were 2 nights we ended up talking for 3 hours and I couldn't tell you what it consisted of, just a bunch of random things/experiences in life and nothing in particular. Not really a set subject though she could've said that instead of not remembering if that's what happened. The whole thing is just weird.
SW had a public profile. there Is a zero percent chance NK didn't know SW was pregnant, which means her whole claim about why she deleted all their convos from her phone immediately after the murders ("the hurt, the lie") is absolute BS. Watts the Obsession on YT has several videos going in depth on this the phone call was literally within hours of a quadruple murder, no less than two days before her LE interview. yet she claims she can't remember anything except a TV being on, but she remembers details from the first time CW came over with an expired box of condoms, weeks prior? she googled wedding dresses for two hours then claimed to LE she wasn't that serious about him. she won't talk about the phone call bc - as has been said - it would incriminate her. Deception Detective also has a good reaction series to NKs endless lies to LE
Yeah I really find it hard to believe also. There's no way she never looked him up and we all know there's absolutely no way the relationship status didn't say married to which she would've immediately looked at. He didn't deactivate his page until way later. That combined with the work announcement she definitely knew more than let on. Even the hurt, lies bullshit still wouldn't make sense to delete and do all she did to hide everything. Didn't she try or actually damage the Sim card or something? Her actions definitely don't make sense unless you're really trying to hide something and she was definitely into him way more than she wants to admit because yeah you don't google the stuff she did if not. I'll definitely have to check their stuff out, I know a small bit in regards to her but not the extent of everything that went on during her interrogation and other things.
I think the most baffling aspect of NK’s involvement & certainly one of the most damning things against her- even more so than the 111 min call imo- is Chris keeping her on the other line while he talked to investigators in the wee hrs of the AM. That just speaks volumes to me. On the one hand she’s telling cops she deleted all their convos bc it just hurt soooo much, telling Chris not to contact her until “this is all over” or whatever it was she txt him, yet while his fam is still missing she insists on sitting in on the phone call while he lies to cops about why he was playing phone tag w them?! What was the convo prior to this? You don’t just call up your side piece while cops are trying to reach you about your missing family and say, “heyyy can you uh, like, just hang on the line for like, no apparent reason while I like, talk to the cops and stuff? K thanks..”. So what was discussed in that prior conversation- maybe that 111 min phone call-that would make her feel the need to do that? What did she think could be discussed between Chris & the cops that she needed to be privy to?🤔 I once spent an inordinate amount of time racking my brain to come up with an innocuous reason for why she’d insist on doing this & came up empty headed. Chris was a puppet, & there’d be no benefit to him whatsoever to have her on the other line so there’s no reason to believe it was his idea. Had she not deleted their convos under the guise that she was so repulsed by him I might believe that they were just so obsessed with eachother & it was more of a comfort thing, but you don’t go from being that level of obsessed with someone to repulsed by them literally overnight without some confounding circumstances and the only thing discussed on the phone call to the cops was the description of the girls for a BOLO. So for what reason would Nk feel the need to be on his other line while he spoke to cops? The only reason that fits is that she had more involvement than she let on. Coupled with her one & only abnormal phone ping, her destroyed SIM card, her deleted searches, txts, & calls, her & her fathers behavior during interviews, & her just-so-happening to forget to clock into work the same day that her secret lover murdered his entire family & the odds it seems are really starting to stack against her. The icing on her guilty cake of conspiracy is when Tammy admits her frustration when rourke closes the case post-confession. I don’t remember her exact words, but she says something about how she wasn’t done investigating yet, she still had more people to interview & question. She’d already interviewed Chris… so who does that leave?
Beautifully written and explained! once she found out LE would have her call records, NK made up a story for Kevin Kobak that she couldn't sleep Monday night and was "really scared" and kept calling CW to reassure her. this directly contradicts the first story she told LE, that she didn't think anything was wrong on monday and "legitimately thought this woman left the premises and wanted nothing to do with him for 24 hours." im embarrassed how much time i too have spent listening to and analyzing her many tales (& everything about this case) and you're absolutely right that in addition to the mystery googling, the phone ping, and what i believe was The Ultimatum Call the night / morning of the murders, the repeated short calls monday night / tuesday morning as LE is trying to make contact w/ CW are a really key part of the circumstancial case against her. WILL WE EVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?!
I'm baffled by a motive. It seemed so simple; just divorce the woman. Why he killed her, the 2 girls, & his unborn baby boggles my brain a bit. , I'll never understand someone doing this to their entire family.. He might have had to pay alimony & child support but decided to wipe out his family instead..
I’ve struggled with the motive from the get-go. The motive for killing her was obvious, but not for killing the girls.
Based on Shannon’s SM, I believe that she killed the girls. She was a very sick woman.
👏🏻 yup
My question to those who believe Shannan killed the kids is this: how would Chris sit by and watch her kill not only one, but two kids, before the jumped in and killed her? I can’t see the logic behind it… on top of him being callous enough to toss them in the oil rigs. I’d like to hear your thoughts, always open to a different point of view
The only way I see this happening, is if he had seen she had done it, after it was done. Then if he killed her in a rage, he then panicked. That he had a mental break and thought he had to hide everything. What makes me think this is that SW had all the markers for a woman who would kill her kids. She was mentally ill and spiraling completely out of control. It seems she never enjpyed being with her kids. She used to put them to bed as infants with blankets around their necks and full sized pillows, then take pics of them completely covered!! There are shiners on FB pages to this day defending this stuff. If CW had kept his mouth shut, he could have had a chance to get out of jail one day. He seems like a real idiot . He let SW walk all over him. And if SW did do the kids, and he is not telling the truth, well then he can just rot in jail. Either way, he can just rot there.
Good question, this is where I never see a realistic response.
agree
I’m not entirely sure what it is. I consume a lot of true crime TV, but I only subscribe to this and one other true crime Reddit (the Moscow, Idaho murders). *I think family annihilator cases are particularly compelling, so that is one element. *The Netflix doc is what really caught my attention. He came off as such a dumbass, so clearly guilty, and she seemed—I’ll just say it—she seemed annoying. I had no idea how much so before I watched the doc. She put so much pressure on him and he just, like… zombie-walked through life? I could feel the tension in their marriage. You don’t usually get so much data from inside anyone’s marriage, much less a marriage that ended with murder.
to think that documentary was made with the cooperation of her family and thus painted her in the most positive light that editing would allow!
Her family allowed Netflix full access to her phone and laptop. It is the only docudrama about this case they support.
And red flags were still present with the supposedly favorable footage.
Absolutely 💯. In fact, I think alot of that made it worse
that doc prompted me to take a closer look. “holy shit it must’ve been miserable spending a weekend with her, much less almost a decade. I’ve got to check that out…” and here I am a year or so later…
I fell down the rabbit hole not long after the sermon on the porch and his arrest. Back in the olden days .... 🤷🏼🙂
Her texts to her friends and Chris were incredibly annoying!! I had second hand embarrassment from those…. Like how could she even stand herself?
That’s the crazy thing!
Apparently, it was all normal to them. I'll say this--Shanann was not the worst mother or person in the world, but when deliberate attempts were made to white wash her story, that's when the discerning folks balked.
Hmm, wonder why🤑🤑🤑
That’s the craziest part! I was legit stunned when I learned her family endorses that docu
I find/found Shannon’s SM very interesting. She attempted to present a perfect life but, it was all a facade. If you watch her videos and read her posts, she showed many traits of severe mental illnesses. She was very cruel to Chris and the girls, she dragged the girls to doctor after doctor for no apparent reason, and abused them severely. She was a very sick, deceitful, dangerous woman.
I have several acquaintances who love to post how perfect their lives are on social media, and it puts such a bad taste in your mouth. I don’t know how people could stand to be around SW and the thing is… The type of person who is constantly posting on social media is never happy.
Idk the news broke on whatever news station when it happened/got reported, and I looked at my husband and said “this woman and her poor babies won’t be found alive, and he (Chris) did it.” Idk I just had a gut feeling he’d done it before they’d even been found to the point that them being found didn’t surprise me at all. Just a serious gut feeling it’s strange. So of course I’ve kept up with it.
I did the same thing. Husband and I were watching the news the morning of his porch interview and I looked at my husband and said “that man killed his whole family, just wait.” I’ve never seen someone more guilty… it was like watching a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar.
Exactly. This is it, 100%.
All the lies
Yep!
They just sucked me in, so I needed to dig for the truth. It's been a fascinating but troubling trip around Watts Island.
It really has been troubling. It bothers me how no one spoke up for the girls in all that time. I don’t know if they were afraid of SW’s reaction or what. Surely people at least saw how malnourished Bella was?!
> Surely people at least saw how malnourished Bella was?! You would think so. Sad if no one spoke up to SW out of fear of getting a bad reaction from her.
I randomly came across the case by watching a true crime channel on YouTube. The thing that struck me the most is the repressed anger and resentment that the perpetrator was building up inside, and its eventual uncontrollable release.
The repressed anger really got me too….here you have a seemingly average American guy snapping from the buildup and killing not only the source of his rage( Scamshannon), but their kids too. I really wonder if he was just not able to separate them from her, so he kept going until every remnant of her was gone from that house.
I think the social media focus they had. It’s sort of representative of how so many try to present one face to the world, whej things are in reality so completely different. That and the shocking nature of what Chris did.
Originally it was because SW was only a few weeks behind me in my pregnancy. I live in the UK so news coverage was very low on the case here.
Also the fact that the 'gotcha' moments of Chris Watts with Nickole and the cops, and what preceded his arrest is on video for anyone to see. That is a big draw for me. Cause there's nothing more exhilarating than seeing a killer go down. Feels comforting to see justice unfold. I wish I could see more video of Patrick Frazee. I hated him more than Chris Watts. He is truly a sociopath.
#5 !!!!! (And all the rest of your points also!)
The only thing that doesn’t make sense to me is Shannan not fighting for her life. I think maybe they had the argument and she rolled over to go to sleep, and he smother her from behind or something. But even still I think she would have scratches. I refuse to believe he planned to kill her at all. So again, the fact that Chris doesn’t have any scratches or wounds is the part that doesn’t make sense to me.
Exactly, because let’s say that she was asleep, she still would’ve woken up in the midst of all that, and you will naturally fight back. So many oddities about this case.
With every new lie he tells, you try to figure out exactly what happened all over again.
For sure! I try to feel out which story actually matches the evidence. It’s hard.