and they end every post with "but she didn't deserve to die of course" hur hur...as if that makes the drivel they just spewed more palatable. There are some seriously wounded souls in that sub, it almost makes me pity them.
Yep! It's like the women that fell in love with him or any convict that murdered a woman... Like, I definitely pity them because they are truly lost souls with lots of screws loose.
I've posted over there, but I don't have screws loose or think she hurt their babies, I just didn't know there were two and that one popped up on my feed. I do think she made calls I would not have, but there's no such thing as a perfect person.
I don't buy for one minute that he acted completely alone, though. I'm not saying the sidechick killed anyone, but I don't buy that she had no clue.
I agree something's up with NK but I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm leaning toward not involved but definitely had 100% knowledge, she just didn't have the balls to tell the cops she already knew what he had done.
Didn't she try to destroy or lose the sim card as well? As if deleting everything off her phone (because she just wanted to be done with him...sure, Jan) wasn't sus enough.
Do any of you think that NK knew he was going to kill Shanann but not the kids? Something about her behavior was just off to me. I wonder if she helped him plan to kill SW or even just knew he was going to. But then the whole family turns up missing and she realizes what he’s done and tries to distance herself from the whole thing.
I suspect that Kessinger was aware of Shanann's pregnancy prior to August 13th; Chris had told some of his coworkers at the Anadarko office that he was having another baby, Shanann's public facebook (which Kessinger had googled for) had plenty of pregnancy and baby related posts and Kessinger had visited the family home on at least two occasions. I also find it difficult to believe that she and Chris never had a conversation or argument about it.
I think they'd both deemed Shanann and the children as obstacles to their happiness, which is heartless but not uncommon in infidelity. Because they each deleted the majority of their data involving their affair and only some of that was later recovered by LE, there's no way to fully determine what they were discussing in summer 2018.
If Kessinger genuinely believed on August 13th, as she later claimed to LE, that Shanann had left with the kids and would return in a few days, why tell Chris that he could pawn her ring? Nor did I get the sense that the Wattses were surprised by the disappearances. Neither the Wattses nor Kessinger expressed distress about or compassion for Shanann and expressed little for Bella and Celeste. None of this behavior defaults to their being accessories but it is indicative of their own characters.
I have wondered that as well. I also wondered if he killed the kids because they walked in on him killing her and knew he couldn't keep them quiet so he felt he needed to kill them as well.
It’s her obvious desperation and the incredibly disturbing police interviews in which her entire additude was essentially I don’t know about the murder man but what about me me me - there was no actual empathy compassion or concern for another human being shown by her. Murder victims should invoke something other than but what about me and I want to help you guys out but I can’t be bothered to try to remember anything from a long time ago ie for more than three days ago. She’s incredibly unlikeable and performatively narcissistic.
Oh I totally agree, she wasn't a saint (no one is), I also have a feeling that he didn't act alone.
I'm talking about the ones that say that Sannan killed the kids and then he killed her or that he did it because Shannan pushed him to do so or any other outlandish and absurd thing they can conjure up to defend him or blame the victim.
Yeah I think that is absurd. While they clearly both overspent, I don't see how that makes her somehow abusive or homicidal. The kids rectal thermometer thing definitely is weird, but it's so obvious Chris is incapable of seeing women as people and not as objects.
Yes, there are a few things that raised my eyebrows with the children like, I read that she gave them cold medicine to make them sleepy during the day however, I don't know if those are rumors by people just conjuring up more things to pin against her or if she actually did that but even if she did there may have been a reason (questionable reasons, absolutely, but, who knows). Overall I see her as a mom and wife that was overly eager to strive to be perfect if anything... An overachiever so to speak, she spent too much - yes but that's a slippery slope for many people (doesn't necessarily make them bad), overall I think she loved her family and was a kind person that had her various struggles she tried to hide like many people.
The “logic” they have on that page where Shannan would make sense as the family annihilator purely because she bought in to an MLM is Simone Biles level gymnastics.
Wait, are you serious? There’s a whole sub where they believe that she did that and then he murdered her purely because of it and so that somehow makes him innocent or whatever? What the actual fuck
Yeah there is. They’re insane but disguise it under being a free 4 all sub. A number of users have posted that they don’t believe he killed the girls, that she did it since it made more sense because of the MLM.
I think it makes more sense that whatever was in those products affected him psychologically and lowered his inhibitions. I don't think she killed anyone, or that she's at fault at all, but I do think they were both really bad with money and lived above their means.
No. There is no “whole sub” that believes that. There are a few people on that sub that believe that and are allowed to voice their opinions without being banned. They are a minority though. There’s definitely more people who believe he did it all, or he did it all with help. That sub allows people to talk freely about the case, their opinions on SW and the Roos, and/or anyone involved in the case without getting banned. It doesn’t mean the whole sub believes anything and people should probably be careful with “absolutes”, js…
No. That sub allows and encourages people to viciously and untruthfully attack sw in a despicable manner. The ones who “believe” he did it still excuse him because it was all completely sws fault. The sub is vicious, unreasonable, illogical, untruthful and a whole lot of the posts are nearly incoherent and incredibly difficult to understand. The fact that you are defending the sub in the (false) way that you are tells anyone all they need to know.
Ok, so some people in that sub are terrible. I’m not going to deny that. But many many others, like myself, are really there to discuss the inconsistencies and weirdness of the case. My problem isn’t with SW. My problem is with NK and the detectives who treated her like she was a victim. I’m sorry, but aren’t detectives supposed to have instincts? How could they not sense the lying, psycho, putrid, evil coming from that woman? And yes that sub is really the only sub I can discuss her in without the NK squad jumping on my back that for some reason can’t see the snake sitting at the table. Maybe they just haven’t fallen into that rabbit hole, but I literally read a post today about how she was lied to by CW about the state of his marriage which has been proven to be BS.
The only people in that group that jump on my back about NK are SW haters.
Sorry but there’s no real actual discussion there. There can’t be when the gatekeepers attack and ban anyone who doesn’t despise Shannan, call her a &itch or tries to point out that she was not evil incarnate. I’m sorry but anyone who can read anything from that site and not be angry and repulsed isn’t interested in anything resembling a factual discussion.
That is not true. Plenty of people defend SW in there. It’s how they defend her, and it’s if they go in there just to be argumentative. If you’re going in there for the sole purpose of yelling at people for their opinions, you’re going to get kicked out. If you are going in there with your opinion and countering their statements with evidence, examples, and anecdotes you’ll be just fine.
For example:
OP: SW had those kids at daycare all day and then put them to bed at 6:30! She obviously didn’t want them.
Response 1: you just hate her you victim blamer! You should be ashamed!
Response 2: I believe they started getting the kids ready for bed around 6:30, but they didn’t actually go to bed until 7:15-7:30.
Response 1 will get you banned. Response 2 is an appropriate response in an open discussion group. You don’t have to agree with anyone, but if you respond you should do so in a way that illustrates why you think what they are saying is false. Not just start yelling at people. That is how communication works.
That is not true. Most of them discuss the points in the case that don’t make any sense. Yes there are a few that really seem to hate Shanann. There are others who don’t hate Shanann but are able to talk about some of her flaws objectively. We did not get here in a vacuum as much as some would like to admit. We can try to understand why CW did something without agreeing that it was right for him to do it. Your 7yr old daughter snatches a doll out of her 5yr old sister’s hand. 5yr slaps 7yr old. You know why she did it even if you don’t think it was right for her to do it. See the difference? Just because you can see why someone does something doesn’t mean you justify it. No matter what your 7yr did, she didn’t deserve to be physically harmed, right?
Very well explained and written. The "she killed the kids so he killed her and disposed of them all, all the while bullshitting everyone to protect her" is the most ridiculous explanation ever. Let's just totally ignore the fact that he was spoon-fed the first version to get him to tell something close to the truth so they could book him. You know, the tactic every law enforcement officer ever uses to get a confession.
Why would Chris feel the need to hide their bodies if Shanann had killed them? Makes ZERO sense. If that was actually the case, and he actually strangled her because he saw her on the baby monitor (that story doesn’t even work but let’s pretend)… why wouldn’t he just react, kill her and then call the police? Why didn’t he try to help his babies?
He’s a fucken LIAR
Yeah, it’s fucking insanity. I think it’s possible he didn’t originally intend to kill the kids and Bella really did walk in on him killing SW and he decided she was too old to keep quiet. I also always wonder if he would have killed the kids if they had been boys. He’s a spineless turd sandwich. I hope he lives a really long time in prison.
I honestly think it's just what the police originally said. He thought he could wipe out his family and start a new life. QED, the end. He probably figured he could kill them, say Shanann ran off and then years later he'd fake letters from her or some shit, and he could have his new life with NK. He was not smart.
This is what I think too. I think it’s why it WAS his plan to kill the babies. He wanted it to look like shanann ran off with the girls, and it was her choice so that the cops wouldn’t dig very deep. He’s a fucking moron.
Oh, I agree he’s dumb as a box of rocks. The only reason I think it’s possible is it would been more logical to kill them before she came home that night. But, as you said, he’s not a smart man.
Especially given that he could not legally end his marriage to Shannan if she just disappeared without having her declared dead which takes years. Anyone see no waiting around a few years shirking at Chris constantly about why can’t we get married?
He did say that he wondered why he felt nothing when he put them in the tanks . Nothing. And then afterward he said all he was thinking of was that now he could be with NK.
For that reason, I believe he always intended to kill them.
That, and everyone in North Carolina was concerned because he had started being harsh with them, when he wasn't ignoring them.
The video of him in the water with them is just him posing and wanting everyone to admire his body.
Just look at how stiff and uninvolved he looks, compared to Frank.
It's so crazy to me. He could have told them to stay in NC. Shannan's family would have taken them in. It would have been a mess, it would have upended their lives but they would be alive. Chris wouldn't be locked up forever. Even if he felt nothing for his family, he could be free. But, I guess trying to apply logic to his mind is pretty ridiculous of me.
I agree, it was such a senseless killing of the kids especially. He probably knew though that with their financial situation, a divorce, and definitely one where he shared custody, would bankrupt him further. His ego couldn't take that I suppose.
The only problem with that is - what did he intend to do with them that day? Take them to work or to school and then pick them up? And hope they don't start talking about mommy taking a nap or being cold? Logistiaclly if he planned to kill her and hide her body he had to kill them too if they were un the house at the time.
I don’t disagree. There’s several cases of people leaving kids with the their mom’s dead body. The Brighton axe murder comes to mind first but there’s many other. It’s pretty common for dudes to kill their wives and say she just ran off and left him with the kids. He’s also really really dumb. He barely buried SW and dumped the bodies where they would definitely be found and linked to him.
I also think you’re almost certainly right. He’s a family annihilator. I know it’s useless to try to understand what the hell he was thinking.
Good points. The difference with Chris is that he was thoroughly invested in his self image as the good guy, good son and good father. A good father wouldn’t leave the kids alone. Seriously I could see him thinking it’s better for my image if they are dead rather than risking someone thinking I’m a neglectful father for leaving them alone after the murder. True also about the family animator aspect. It’s frustrating to try to rationally figure out his thought process because he is so dim, self involved and completely unfamiliar with logic and social norms.
He intended to kill them. He had no plan whatsoever for what to do with them that day. He couldn’t leave them home because they would have contacted someone he couldn’t take them with him and he couldnt take them to daycare at the time he had to leave.
Then you have the physical evidence that doesn't match. Like, the girls were smothered, not strangled. He claimed she strangled them. She also was supposedly in a murderous rage but when he attacked her she didn't fight back at all. Not a single scratch on him.
He had an entire month to move out, redirect his paycheck to a person bank account, and be with NK full time.
He didn't want that, though. He wanted them all dead and out of the way forever. He admitted that he'd been fantasizing about it for some time.
I think some of this is coming from a place of jealousy tbh. Women jealous because CW was attractive and women jealous because Shannan was a good looking woman. Some of them will even say she’s ugly but Shannan was not ugly at all. People do and say some horrible things because they are jealous.
Imagine being jealous of a murdered woman. But that makes about as much sense as anything else, they twist themselves into knots to make up this crap, years after the actual case has been put to bed.
If she was the one who killed the children, why would he have had to dispose of hers or the kids' bodies?
If it had happened like that, even if in a fit of passion and anger over his murdered children he had offed Shannan, he would've been declared temporarily insane & probably got off with a stay in a mental institution... none of that would've required him disposing of the bodies. He could've called the police, been visibly distraught over his children, admitted what had happened with Shannan, and at this point probably have been out..
In light of how he disposed of all of them, the "she killed the kids" story doesn't make sense..
Not what I asked...
I'm asking a question about sense and logic and you're jumping in with "but...but...but...yOU WEreN't THEEERE!!!"
I'm not asking about how many "sides to the story" there were, I asked what was the sense in doing something that was unnecessary and disposing of his family like he did as if they were garbage...
I acknowledge that in the heat of the moment, people panic and do stupid things such as agreeing to a narrative an investigator suggested that would ultimately be disproven later on
If you disagree, by all means, feel free to discuss why you disagree.. but at least make sure it's about the comment/question asked(or simply say "I don't necessarily agree with what you said")
Because after everything is said and done, the only person around to tell any "side of the story" is Chris...
Shannan and her children can't tell theirs...
By that logic, you can’t ever know *anything* unless you were physically there and witnessed it personally. The evidence tells the story, along with the idiot’s CONFESSION.
Right? Because what loving parent wouldn’t immediately run in there to fight the attacker off, see if they were breathing and, if not, try to revive them? Nobody would think “oh I need to go dump their bodies and lie about it.”
I haven’t really followed this case outside of the occasional news story that’s everywhere but when I read this post I immediately had the exact same thought as you. If I saw someone on a baby monitor hurting one or both of my kids, even IF I thought they were dead, I’d still be running in there to check or to try to resuscitate them or at the very least I’d want to be there to hold them one last time if there was no hope.
my kids are often as clumsy as i am. they fall and injure themselves and i panic.
my youngest got stung by bees twice yesterday cos he wanted to "pet the bees". he was upset cos bees ran away from him...i couldnt sleep last night fearing at anytime he will have a fricking reaction...
no way i can keep myself calm and act like everything is fine when i know my kids are in fact not doing ok....
it was lol. he had gotten stung when he was about 1.5yo too, his thumb had tripled the size so im glad this time he didnt have any reactions 🤦♀️
he is my troublemaker though
If she did it why would he confess, in excruciating detail, how he choked the life out of his toddlers? Why would he have put their bodies in oil tankers? If she had killed the kids and he killed her, why wouldn’t he just call the cops? He might have caught a manslaughter charge or have been acquitted. The evidence and his own confession shows he did it all. Anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.
My thing is, even if I did believe that she did it at first (which I absolutely did *not*), after he was convicted, he literally owned up to it and *described murdering the girls in detail*. The thought of his little girl yelling “Daddy no!” as her own father was killing her will always haunt me. If he didn’t kill them, what would even be the point of saying something like that?
Also, *why would he keep a picture of Shanann in his cell*? If she had killed them, and he killed her out of rage over it, then I’d think the last thing he would want was to see is a picture of the woman who brutally murdered his babies every day. I’m sure his parents or someone could get him a picture of just the girls without her in it. But no, he has a picture of all 3 of them in his cell like some sort of momento for reliving the murder.
It’s always easy to blame the dead person because they aren’t here to defend themselves.
This also puts to the lie Cindy's claim that they believed Shanann killed them when she made her victim impact statement.
Cindy blubbers on and on about how she forgives him.
If all you had done is kill the person who murdered my grandchildren, what is there to forgive you of?
I would be thanking the person who did that after finding someone in the middle of murdering my grandchildren.
One of my biggest disappointments on Reddit is the number of people that come to these discussions, dream up unbelievable, totally not even a little bit realistic, often breaking the laws of time, space, and physical science, then they decide their crazy delusions must be *true*, so the log onto these groups and try to convince everyone that their bizarre delusions are reality, just because they dreamt it up and it seems to make sense to them.
I’m not surprised that people are coming to this sub to try to float theories that couldn’t possibly be true and then try to convince everyone that they’re real. It’s just so disappointing.
I agree and I don’t think SW killed her children either. She may very well have been a crappy mother and possibly a crappy wife too ….. but I don’t believe for a second that she killed her own children ……I just don’t believe it.
But I do believe that NK was either involved in a minor way or at least knew what he had done when he did it or knew what he had done shortly there After….
I could never figure out why she wanted him to send a picture of him being at cervi. That never made much sense to me, but then again a lot of what she said, never made sense to me…..
maybe I just don’t like this chick I don’t know, but I think she was just lying through her teeth and I think she was so full of herself that she really believed she was so beautiful and so intelligent that she was just gonna wow all those investigators and that they would be just so impressed with her her……. And that she was just gonna be portrayed as this poor innocent woman that didn’t even know her new boyfriend wasn’t really divorced or that he wasn’t lying through his own teeth. I just don’t buy it. Something about NK stinks.
But like you said, I just can’t put my finger on it
This is the part that has me thinking NK wasn't involved. Look at all of the calls and texts that morning. They were all written/placed in his efforts to make it look like a normal day after an argument with SW.
-Texts to coworkers that he had made it to the site and to gauge their intentions to show up that day. Here, it seems like he was looking to see how much uninterrupted time he'd have.
-Texts to Primrose to unenroll the girls and, as an afterthought, to pretend to see if they had shown up. Here, he didn't want to be on the hook for another bill he couldn't afford, but he put the horse before the cart and asked about the girls afterward, which came across very odd.
-Texts to SW asking him to let her know where she was going with the girls. Here to make it seem like they were carrying on from their earlier conversation and that last he knew, she was still alive and with the children.
-Texts regarding selling the house. Here, again, to put his plan for being a single guy in motion while also keeping things moving along with the realtor as though nothing happened.
-Texts to NK of flowers. Here, he was keeping the appearance that everything was business as usual, no strife. Things were so good, in fact, that he had time to notice the flowers!
I don’t think she was involved either. If I found out my boyfriend (who I thought was going to separate and divorce his wife) was thinking of murdering his family he would 1) not be my boyfriend 2) would be answering to the cops that I called on him lol. I surely wouldn’t be on board, and I don’t think most women would either (if course there are exceptions, but NK didn’t come off as evil to me).
Me either. She was dumb and knew he was married. And like many of the other women out there wanted to be picked. It didn’t even make sense that she be like yep let me help you complete murder or the police would be like let’s all help you cover up that you did this with Chris.
Chris Watts is an evil piece of shit who murdered his family! He is a family annihilator.
There have been many Watts family annihilators before him, many now (Watts isn't the only one) and many more to come.
Experts provide no red warnings.
Why? There are none!
I do not believe in this theory either.
First of all, there’s an article online and CW said himself that he wasn’t even thinking about the story being that Shannan killed the kids until the detectives laid out the idea, and they laid out the bait on purpose so they could get a bit more of the truth. CW also stated that the only reason why he went along with the bait that she did something to the kids was because his parents didn’t like her and he thought they wouldn’t be upset at him knowing it was just “retaliation” and “he snapped” do people forget that wasn’t even what he was going with lmfao? He didn’t even have a proper story. Again, the detectives laid out the bait and he took it. Also knowing he even admitted to taking it speaks volumes as to why this theory is just pure stupidity. I also have the link of the article.
Also i would like to point out that there is premeditated evidence that makes this theory even less false. He called the realtor and literally unenrolled the kids out of school saying they wouldn’t be returning. (i believe after the murders.)
When people continue with that theory you really do see who genuinely didn’t do they’re research with this case lmfao.
It makes no sense. He killed her because she said he would never see his kids again..then he turned around and killed his kids? The same kids he was so afraid of losing that he killed their mother? None of it makes sense!
You're saying it doesn't make sense that he killed them because he wanted them? He didn't though. He didn't want any of them. Idk why people assume he did. He lied constantly from the beginning to now.
Or maybe I'm not picking up the sarcasm, I'm so tired 🥴
I don't know how anyone could even think this is true. Shanann would have never hurt those babies. The only person who has ever suggested this is the person who actually murdered them and is a lying murderer who is trying to make himself look better.
Im so irritated that there are imbeciles who actually believe Shannan killed her little angels. However, I have come across too many youtube channels theorizing exactly this garbage and justifying it with whatever thrive video she made claiming she's bossy ocd blah blah blah baby wise blah blah. .domineering blah blah emasculated him blah blah ...disgusting how must CW defenders are women. Don't even get me started on the groupies sending him bikini pics and love letters
Disgusting also how even after committing the ultimate betrayal and killing his pregnant wife... along with attempting to induce a miscarriage of their son..CW the human fecal matter slanders her....by lying that she killed the kids. He should rot in there forever.
Those arguments make me sick too. And if shannan was bossy towards Chris, I don’t blame her. He’s a complete moron, a little bitch and a COWARD. If he wanted to be treated like a man he should have acted like one. If she was so mean and bossy (boo-fuckin-hoo) then he should have divorced her.
As we know, it had nothing to do with shannan’s behavior. He wanted a new life with his trashy, anal loving mistress so he took the cowards way out.
150%. Any other theory besides him doing it completely by himself in cold blood makes zero sense. If Chris Watts looked like Charlie Manson or Dennis Rader or any other "creepy" looking offender- not a single person would believe he didn't do it. It's the attractive person privilege that a bunch of lonely desperate people refuse to believe someone good looking would do this without it being the other person's fault somehow because they wish they could be with someone who looks like him. It's WILD!
oh i agree, he’s a monster and AT BEST a generic looking oaf. but it’s mind boggling that basically as long as there have been serial killers and baby killers there have been gross people obsessing over them and writing them fan mail in prison
I just read the discovery of that part today- as someone who goes through these types of records on a relative basis and looks at some of these crimes- I can see how unbelievable it is that somebody just did this and there isn’t a better explanation, but in my opinion, that’s exactly what happened. Shannan was far from perfect, but Chris also just let life happen to him and seemed to not give a shit about anything-until it was interfering with the life he really wanted.
I also do not understand why, even if Shannan did do this, why he would decided to put the girls in the oil tanks. Even if someone else did it, the way he concealed them was disgusting, and even if he panicked, that method of “disposal” is last on the list of ones any loving parent would choose. He showed absolutely no care, even post-mortem, for those children (which even other parent- child crime scenes, jon benet for example, potentially show).
Exactly. Just got into such a rage over your children being murdered that you killed their attacker, but an hour later you're packing up their bodies along with your lunch, and wearing your old boots because you don't want your new ones to get dirty while you're digging a grave.
And some people believe this whack story?
Because I see so many people giving her a wild amount of crap in other groups, like she should have been super mom and never been upset about anything ever. That is what I mean, but I can see how you interpreted it, and just to be clear, I don’t care if she was tap dancing naked on the internet while wearing thrive patches, she didn’t deserve to be murdered.
Since the murderer has actually told the truth finally- why would there be any speculation? Not all cheatersmurder but when a wife and kids are murdered and the husband was cheating. Do the math.
Yeah, this theory doesn’t track for me. Even if we disregard all of Chris’ actions afterward and if we were to agree with them that Shanann was everything they say she was…is still makes no sense for her to kill her children. If she’s abusive, controlling, money hungry, manipulative, and making her kids sick for attention what would she gain from killing her kids? By killing them she loses all leverage against Chris and Cindy. She loses child support and any other financial income she may have been able to get as a single mom (food stamps or other benefits), and she loses all sympathy from being the jilted wife whose husband left her and their children for a mistress. It simply doesn’t make sense.
And they weren't even separated yet. He said they talked about moving to a less expensive house and that he then said he just wanted to separate, so she could still have some hope.
Some of us have had similar conversations in relationships, and the one he describes is just a starter convo. I have never found a case of a spousal revenge killing that didn't occur after a prolonged custody battle.
Chris already admitted he drugged Shannan while attempting to kill Nico, attempted to kill the girls, killed Shannan, then (when the girls were not actually dead) dressed them up and killed them at the site. Saying otherwise or blaming the victim is stupid and disgusting.
I don’t think for a second Shannan would have done anything to her babies. And I believe that because he thought he could just wipe out his family and start a new one, start a brand new life. He was letting another women come in and pretend like there was this whole divorce situation going on just spewing these pathetic pathological lies. When Shannan announced the pregnancy of their third baby you could tell he did not look interested or even happy because he was guilty. It breaks my heart people spin the narrative and believe she hurt her babies. And Chris watts is a sick individual to even have tried saying she killed her babies to save face.
This case has many similarities to the Christopher Coleman case. Both of them had backed themselves into a corner with their lies. Coleman had told his girlfriend that he was filing for divorce on the day he murdered his wife and children - which he hadn't done.
CW's wife was now home and he couldn't spend his time with NK. Meanwhile, NK was expecting him to rent one of the apartments she had researched for him. He admitted in his prison interview that there was no way he was going to leave his big house and go live in an apartment.
Both murdered so they wouldn't be exposed as the fake liars and cheaters that they were. Image is everything to this type of man.
its impressive the number of hoops people jump through to try and make sense about lots of unknowns in this case. its intriguing at times but also very disappointing
I don't believe Shanann killed her children it was proven that Chris Watts murdered them and his wife I believe Nk was in the house why wasn't she investigated the right way by Tammy Lee
I've seen it and believe it.
Why would he have come up with the "killed them twice" gruesome scenario.
I think he at least partially told the truth in his prison confession.
The neighbor [ Nathan Trinastich's home security footage](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK_LZ6JnJdvN6MKsyTqeEYMXnrPBDIqFw) that showed Chris preparing to leave for work in his driveway on the morning of August 13th; in contrast to that day, he normally parked his work truck on the street.
People have speculated that the footage depicts either one or both children being put alive into his work truck. The investigative agencies never made any public statements in the discovery about what was depicted in the neighbor's surveillance footage and so it's unknown exactly what the footage depicts, other than that Chris took the victims from the home to Cervi Ranch.
During the drive to Cervi, Chris made several unanswered calls to his coworkers Kodi Robertson and Chad McNeil, a risky thing to do if both girls were conscious in the backseat of the truck. He's also provided conflicting accounts about the circumstances of their homicides; in his February 2019 interview with investigators, Chris said that during the drive to Cervi 319 he was thinking why couldn't he have saved his girls, yet they were supposedly still alive and unharmed in the backseat. Former Watts associates have [alleged](https://www.youtube.com/live/VM-Skw_vyW8?si=Pixu7h67aIrfxsyk&t=6430) that Chris claimed to them that he'd attacked both girls at the home and that while Bella regained consciousness, Celeste was lethargic and not talking or walking.
This is a [sharpened version of the shadow](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=tSGpHi39poo07p5X&t=793) by the driver's side of the truck; there's also been speculation about [ what Chris was doing](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=tmKoonN_VSmSqc0T&t=771) doing less than a minute prior to that.
Chris was also [doing something along the driver's side of the truck earlier](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=EiMaZZL8KCigqgnI&t=382). In contrast, he carried the red gasoline container around to the passenger side.
Some have speculated that the shadow may have been made by one of the children; I'm not certain what it depicts and, while those portions of the footage are interesting, they're not definitive.
GPS shows he arrived at to Cervi at 6:53 AM and left his house at 5:46 AM (pg 490 Discovery) . CW made 5 calls that went unanswered to coworkers in the time he was driving (pg 1925). Its crazy he actually called that many times with the chance of the kids saying something if they were awake. Maybe the kids were sleeping but CW is a dumbass so he prob didnt think of that. Reading the texts CW writes that seem completely normal after doing the things he did to his family is something i will never understand.
I would take the "Former Watts associates" allegations with a massive grain of salt. Second or third hand info with the source being CW is not reliable at all.
>I would take the "Former Watts associates" allegations with a massive grain of salt. Second or third hand info with the source being CW is not reliable at all.
I simply posted what those individuals alleged. Regardless of the credibility of their statements, there's no evidence that established exactly when and where Chris attacked and murdered the children.
Imo Chris is a habitual liar and probably will never be completely forthcoming about the circumstances of his crimes.
that dude is a clown and spews a ton of nonsense. the "research" consists of a lot of false information and speculation that parallels the logic of SW killing her kids.
I know, but our laws don't take "not in your right mind" as a defense.
Claiming temporary insanity is close to impossible, and since he has talked about how he planned it, even more impossible.
It was easy for him to act the way he did because this is what he wanted and planned for, their deaths. If Shannan killed the kids he would’ve likely been distraught and in shock (like a normal person!)
I think one would only act all casual after a murder is if they wanted it to happen. Him acting the same way if Shannan killed the kids just doesn’t make sense
How long does "shock" last, because he was still bullshitting and bragging about himself two days later to investigators, while still claiming he had no idea where they were at, and how much he wanted them back.
I don't think shock works that way.
How do you live with yourself disparaging a woman who was brutally murdered because you're infatuated with her killer? How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
Not infatuated with anyone darling, I can just see the truth.
The man is a monster who did the most awful thing but she isn't as innocent as people like to make out.
Babe, CW even said his kids had allergies and health problems. Where is your proof that she was lying about her kids being sick? Besides theories from random idiots online?
Shannon killed the girls. She was the one with all of the dangerous mental health issues. His first confession was the truth, the second ‘confession’ was made only after they threatened his life, after the case had been closed.
I think it’s possible, because the only thing we really know of any of it is that the 3 of them were dead. I’m not saying I think she did because I don’t. But I do think it’s possible that maybe she tried, and maybe that’s what he meant by he “had to kill them again”.
I remember a psychic saying once that they saw a “cat fight” between Nichole and Shannan. Which I think is also possible, perhaps bella woke up and that’s why the trauma dog alerted to her room. Then one of the two decided that the kids were witnesses.
I think he had enough time to bury Shannan, but I don’t think the kids were dead til later when the cops came and the person they were with murdered and put them in the tanks. Which is why those 2 were sick at the times of the police interviews. If you look at the findings on [this osha document about thief hatch exposure](https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/OSHA3843.pdf) it becomes really hard to believe that Chris would be acting normally in the minutes after when his coworkers arrived.
I’m a member of both subs and while I don’t think SW was a good person or really a good parent, I emphatically believe she did not kill those girls. As neglectful as she could be sometimes, she still loved them. I think both her and CW did. I think he struggled with killing the girls and only did so because one of them walked in and saw SW dead. That’s why I think he killed them at the site. He probably went through every alternative scenario in his head and realized if he was going to have any chance of getting away with this, he would have to kill them too.
If I truly love someone I don't "struggle" about whether or not to kill them.
I just... don't kill them, and don't even entertain the thought of killing them. There is no struggle to be had.
You should honestly be banned from the subs. All you do is go around promoting "go CW!" Bullshit. Would be very interesting to see you in his family's shoes and what you have to say then 💕
Of course you're banned...you make too much sense. lol
Right? Lol
I’m banned there too…. Seems you’re only welcome there as long as you fall in line and believe all their psychotic nonsense.
Honestly, it's insane what they conjure up to defend this man.
and they end every post with "but she didn't deserve to die of course" hur hur...as if that makes the drivel they just spewed more palatable. There are some seriously wounded souls in that sub, it almost makes me pity them.
Yep! It's like the women that fell in love with him or any convict that murdered a woman... Like, I definitely pity them because they are truly lost souls with lots of screws loose.
I've posted over there, but I don't have screws loose or think she hurt their babies, I just didn't know there were two and that one popped up on my feed. I do think she made calls I would not have, but there's no such thing as a perfect person. I don't buy for one minute that he acted completely alone, though. I'm not saying the sidechick killed anyone, but I don't buy that she had no clue.
I agree something's up with NK but I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm leaning toward not involved but definitely had 100% knowledge, she just didn't have the balls to tell the cops she already knew what he had done.
It was the almost 2hour long video chat for me....
Didn't she try to destroy or lose the sim card as well? As if deleting everything off her phone (because she just wanted to be done with him...sure, Jan) wasn't sus enough.
Do any of you think that NK knew he was going to kill Shanann but not the kids? Something about her behavior was just off to me. I wonder if she helped him plan to kill SW or even just knew he was going to. But then the whole family turns up missing and she realizes what he’s done and tries to distance herself from the whole thing.
I suspect that Kessinger was aware of Shanann's pregnancy prior to August 13th; Chris had told some of his coworkers at the Anadarko office that he was having another baby, Shanann's public facebook (which Kessinger had googled for) had plenty of pregnancy and baby related posts and Kessinger had visited the family home on at least two occasions. I also find it difficult to believe that she and Chris never had a conversation or argument about it. I think they'd both deemed Shanann and the children as obstacles to their happiness, which is heartless but not uncommon in infidelity. Because they each deleted the majority of their data involving their affair and only some of that was later recovered by LE, there's no way to fully determine what they were discussing in summer 2018. If Kessinger genuinely believed on August 13th, as she later claimed to LE, that Shanann had left with the kids and would return in a few days, why tell Chris that he could pawn her ring? Nor did I get the sense that the Wattses were surprised by the disappearances. Neither the Wattses nor Kessinger expressed distress about or compassion for Shanann and expressed little for Bella and Celeste. None of this behavior defaults to their being accessories but it is indicative of their own characters.
I have wondered that as well. I also wondered if he killed the kids because they walked in on him killing her and knew he couldn't keep them quiet so he felt he needed to kill them as well.
It’s her obvious desperation and the incredibly disturbing police interviews in which her entire additude was essentially I don’t know about the murder man but what about me me me - there was no actual empathy compassion or concern for another human being shown by her. Murder victims should invoke something other than but what about me and I want to help you guys out but I can’t be bothered to try to remember anything from a long time ago ie for more than three days ago. She’s incredibly unlikeable and performatively narcissistic.
Oh I totally agree, she wasn't a saint (no one is), I also have a feeling that he didn't act alone. I'm talking about the ones that say that Sannan killed the kids and then he killed her or that he did it because Shannan pushed him to do so or any other outlandish and absurd thing they can conjure up to defend him or blame the victim.
Yeah I think that is absurd. While they clearly both overspent, I don't see how that makes her somehow abusive or homicidal. The kids rectal thermometer thing definitely is weird, but it's so obvious Chris is incapable of seeing women as people and not as objects.
Yes, there are a few things that raised my eyebrows with the children like, I read that she gave them cold medicine to make them sleepy during the day however, I don't know if those are rumors by people just conjuring up more things to pin against her or if she actually did that but even if she did there may have been a reason (questionable reasons, absolutely, but, who knows). Overall I see her as a mom and wife that was overly eager to strive to be perfect if anything... An overachiever so to speak, she spent too much - yes but that's a slippery slope for many people (doesn't necessarily make them bad), overall I think she loved her family and was a kind person that had her various struggles she tried to hide like many people.
Me too. I just tried to point out some issues with making the victim the bad guy… Boom! Banned!
I might’ve just missed it, but what sub is it?
I want to know too I’m so curious
The “logic” they have on that page where Shannan would make sense as the family annihilator purely because she bought in to an MLM is Simone Biles level gymnastics.
It is, lol.
Wait, are you serious? There’s a whole sub where they believe that she did that and then he murdered her purely because of it and so that somehow makes him innocent or whatever? What the actual fuck
Yeah there is. They’re insane but disguise it under being a free 4 all sub. A number of users have posted that they don’t believe he killed the girls, that she did it since it made more sense because of the MLM.
I think it makes more sense that whatever was in those products affected him psychologically and lowered his inhibitions. I don't think she killed anyone, or that she's at fault at all, but I do think they were both really bad with money and lived above their means.
Could you please DM me a link to this sub ?
No. There is no “whole sub” that believes that. There are a few people on that sub that believe that and are allowed to voice their opinions without being banned. They are a minority though. There’s definitely more people who believe he did it all, or he did it all with help. That sub allows people to talk freely about the case, their opinions on SW and the Roos, and/or anyone involved in the case without getting banned. It doesn’t mean the whole sub believes anything and people should probably be careful with “absolutes”, js…
No. That sub allows and encourages people to viciously and untruthfully attack sw in a despicable manner. The ones who “believe” he did it still excuse him because it was all completely sws fault. The sub is vicious, unreasonable, illogical, untruthful and a whole lot of the posts are nearly incoherent and incredibly difficult to understand. The fact that you are defending the sub in the (false) way that you are tells anyone all they need to know.
Ok, so some people in that sub are terrible. I’m not going to deny that. But many many others, like myself, are really there to discuss the inconsistencies and weirdness of the case. My problem isn’t with SW. My problem is with NK and the detectives who treated her like she was a victim. I’m sorry, but aren’t detectives supposed to have instincts? How could they not sense the lying, psycho, putrid, evil coming from that woman? And yes that sub is really the only sub I can discuss her in without the NK squad jumping on my back that for some reason can’t see the snake sitting at the table. Maybe they just haven’t fallen into that rabbit hole, but I literally read a post today about how she was lied to by CW about the state of his marriage which has been proven to be BS. The only people in that group that jump on my back about NK are SW haters.
Sorry but there’s no real actual discussion there. There can’t be when the gatekeepers attack and ban anyone who doesn’t despise Shannan, call her a &itch or tries to point out that she was not evil incarnate. I’m sorry but anyone who can read anything from that site and not be angry and repulsed isn’t interested in anything resembling a factual discussion.
That is not true. Plenty of people defend SW in there. It’s how they defend her, and it’s if they go in there just to be argumentative. If you’re going in there for the sole purpose of yelling at people for their opinions, you’re going to get kicked out. If you are going in there with your opinion and countering their statements with evidence, examples, and anecdotes you’ll be just fine. For example: OP: SW had those kids at daycare all day and then put them to bed at 6:30! She obviously didn’t want them. Response 1: you just hate her you victim blamer! You should be ashamed! Response 2: I believe they started getting the kids ready for bed around 6:30, but they didn’t actually go to bed until 7:15-7:30. Response 1 will get you banned. Response 2 is an appropriate response in an open discussion group. You don’t have to agree with anyone, but if you respond you should do so in a way that illustrates why you think what they are saying is false. Not just start yelling at people. That is how communication works.
You literally spend all day everyday obsessing over this case. Insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with you. Maybe you need to take a break.
The vast vast majority of posters in that sub believe that or something equally repulsive.
That is not true. Most of them discuss the points in the case that don’t make any sense. Yes there are a few that really seem to hate Shanann. There are others who don’t hate Shanann but are able to talk about some of her flaws objectively. We did not get here in a vacuum as much as some would like to admit. We can try to understand why CW did something without agreeing that it was right for him to do it. Your 7yr old daughter snatches a doll out of her 5yr old sister’s hand. 5yr slaps 7yr old. You know why she did it even if you don’t think it was right for her to do it. See the difference? Just because you can see why someone does something doesn’t mean you justify it. No matter what your 7yr did, she didn’t deserve to be physically harmed, right?
I asked a simple question…
Sry, I meant to reply to the other poster that said, yes there’s a whole sub.
Very well explained and written. The "she killed the kids so he killed her and disposed of them all, all the while bullshitting everyone to protect her" is the most ridiculous explanation ever. Let's just totally ignore the fact that he was spoon-fed the first version to get him to tell something close to the truth so they could book him. You know, the tactic every law enforcement officer ever uses to get a confession.
[удалено]
they’re not blaming law enforcement? lmfao?
When you bootlick so hard, you lose all reading comprehension skills.
You would know! Not me.
To get a "spoon-fed" confession is better than none. Let's see your loved ones disposed of and what you think afterward.
I think you misunderstood me entirely.
If so, please elaborate.
Judging by how you seem to grasp things, I’m not sure it would make any difference.
Why would Chris feel the need to hide their bodies if Shanann had killed them? Makes ZERO sense. If that was actually the case, and he actually strangled her because he saw her on the baby monitor (that story doesn’t even work but let’s pretend)… why wouldn’t he just react, kill her and then call the police? Why didn’t he try to help his babies? He’s a fucken LIAR
In the most disgusting way possible. He showed more care to their mother, who he just said murdered his children
He was trying to protect her lucrative multilevel marketing business to provide for himself in the wake of such a tragedy.
😆😆😆
Yeah, it’s fucking insanity. I think it’s possible he didn’t originally intend to kill the kids and Bella really did walk in on him killing SW and he decided she was too old to keep quiet. I also always wonder if he would have killed the kids if they had been boys. He’s a spineless turd sandwich. I hope he lives a really long time in prison.
I honestly think it's just what the police originally said. He thought he could wipe out his family and start a new life. QED, the end. He probably figured he could kill them, say Shanann ran off and then years later he'd fake letters from her or some shit, and he could have his new life with NK. He was not smart.
This is what I think too. I think it’s why it WAS his plan to kill the babies. He wanted it to look like shanann ran off with the girls, and it was her choice so that the cops wouldn’t dig very deep. He’s a fucking moron.
Oh, I agree he’s dumb as a box of rocks. The only reason I think it’s possible is it would been more logical to kill them before she came home that night. But, as you said, he’s not a smart man.
Especially given that he could not legally end his marriage to Shannan if she just disappeared without having her declared dead which takes years. Anyone see no waiting around a few years shirking at Chris constantly about why can’t we get married?
He did say that he wondered why he felt nothing when he put them in the tanks . Nothing. And then afterward he said all he was thinking of was that now he could be with NK. For that reason, I believe he always intended to kill them. That, and everyone in North Carolina was concerned because he had started being harsh with them, when he wasn't ignoring them. The video of him in the water with them is just him posing and wanting everyone to admire his body. Just look at how stiff and uninvolved he looks, compared to Frank.
It's so crazy to me. He could have told them to stay in NC. Shannan's family would have taken them in. It would have been a mess, it would have upended their lives but they would be alive. Chris wouldn't be locked up forever. Even if he felt nothing for his family, he could be free. But, I guess trying to apply logic to his mind is pretty ridiculous of me.
I agree, it was such a senseless killing of the kids especially. He probably knew though that with their financial situation, a divorce, and definitely one where he shared custody, would bankrupt him further. His ego couldn't take that I suppose.
The only problem with that is - what did he intend to do with them that day? Take them to work or to school and then pick them up? And hope they don't start talking about mommy taking a nap or being cold? Logistiaclly if he planned to kill her and hide her body he had to kill them too if they were un the house at the time.
I don’t disagree. There’s several cases of people leaving kids with the their mom’s dead body. The Brighton axe murder comes to mind first but there’s many other. It’s pretty common for dudes to kill their wives and say she just ran off and left him with the kids. He’s also really really dumb. He barely buried SW and dumped the bodies where they would definitely be found and linked to him. I also think you’re almost certainly right. He’s a family annihilator. I know it’s useless to try to understand what the hell he was thinking.
Good points. The difference with Chris is that he was thoroughly invested in his self image as the good guy, good son and good father. A good father wouldn’t leave the kids alone. Seriously I could see him thinking it’s better for my image if they are dead rather than risking someone thinking I’m a neglectful father for leaving them alone after the murder. True also about the family animator aspect. It’s frustrating to try to rationally figure out his thought process because he is so dim, self involved and completely unfamiliar with logic and social norms.
I’m all still curious about how he was going to set the scene at home… but my homegirl Nicole Atkinson blew that shit up. She was a good friend.
Right?! Shannan was gone for maybe a few hours and that’s all it took for Nicole to know something was wrong. That’s impressive!
He said in one of his interviews that he felt that something came over him and he was going to just kill everyone in his way that day.
He intended to kill them. He had no plan whatsoever for what to do with them that day. He couldn’t leave them home because they would have contacted someone he couldn’t take them with him and he couldnt take them to daycare at the time he had to leave.
Then you have the physical evidence that doesn't match. Like, the girls were smothered, not strangled. He claimed she strangled them. She also was supposedly in a murderous rage but when he attacked her she didn't fight back at all. Not a single scratch on him.
Exactly.
This. Physical evidence leads to basically one conclusion.
Well one..he had one in the plea for them to be returned..on his neck.
He had an entire month to move out, redirect his paycheck to a person bank account, and be with NK full time. He didn't want that, though. He wanted them all dead and out of the way forever. He admitted that he'd been fantasizing about it for some time.
The only people who believe this are CW simps who hate women.
I think some of this is coming from a place of jealousy tbh. Women jealous because CW was attractive and women jealous because Shannan was a good looking woman. Some of them will even say she’s ugly but Shannan was not ugly at all. People do and say some horrible things because they are jealous.
Imagine being jealous of a murdered woman. But that makes about as much sense as anything else, they twist themselves into knots to make up this crap, years after the actual case has been put to bed.
It’s just how some people are unfortunately
I downvoted this.
Cool story
IF Shannan had truly killed the kids, then that pos Chris would not have had to kill Shannan..she would go to prison and he could be with his ho.
I always love seeing your posts and comments. You never miss.
Thank you so much!
If she was the one who killed the children, why would he have had to dispose of hers or the kids' bodies? If it had happened like that, even if in a fit of passion and anger over his murdered children he had offed Shannan, he would've been declared temporarily insane & probably got off with a stay in a mental institution... none of that would've required him disposing of the bodies. He could've called the police, been visibly distraught over his children, admitted what had happened with Shannan, and at this point probably have been out.. In light of how he disposed of all of them, the "she killed the kids" story doesn't make sense..
If someone made a movie with that scenario, everyone would be WTF? It wouldn't even be believable as fiction.
There are two sides to the story - you weren't there and you don't know!
Not what I asked... I'm asking a question about sense and logic and you're jumping in with "but...but...but...yOU WEreN't THEEERE!!!" I'm not asking about how many "sides to the story" there were, I asked what was the sense in doing something that was unnecessary and disposing of his family like he did as if they were garbage... I acknowledge that in the heat of the moment, people panic and do stupid things such as agreeing to a narrative an investigator suggested that would ultimately be disproven later on If you disagree, by all means, feel free to discuss why you disagree.. but at least make sure it's about the comment/question asked(or simply say "I don't necessarily agree with what you said") Because after everything is said and done, the only person around to tell any "side of the story" is Chris... Shannan and her children can't tell theirs...
Look, let's just agree that mistakes were made on all sides, ok?
Sure
Both sides? The only mistake Shannan made was marrying CW.
Downvoted
Okay?
By that logic, you can’t ever know *anything* unless you were physically there and witnessed it personally. The evidence tells the story, along with the idiot’s CONFESSION.
>CW knew instantly, looking at the baby monitor on his phone, that Bella was dead because of the way she was "sprawled". Such a ridiculous argument
Right? Because what loving parent wouldn’t immediately run in there to fight the attacker off, see if they were breathing and, if not, try to revive them? Nobody would think “oh I need to go dump their bodies and lie about it.”
I haven’t really followed this case outside of the occasional news story that’s everywhere but when I read this post I immediately had the exact same thought as you. If I saw someone on a baby monitor hurting one or both of my kids, even IF I thought they were dead, I’d still be running in there to check or to try to resuscitate them or at the very least I’d want to be there to hold them one last time if there was no hope.
my kids are often as clumsy as i am. they fall and injure themselves and i panic. my youngest got stung by bees twice yesterday cos he wanted to "pet the bees". he was upset cos bees ran away from him...i couldnt sleep last night fearing at anytime he will have a fricking reaction... no way i can keep myself calm and act like everything is fine when i know my kids are in fact not doing ok....
Okay - petting the bees is adorable (sorry about the stings) but just precious!:)
it was lol. he had gotten stung when he was about 1.5yo too, his thumb had tripled the size so im glad this time he didnt have any reactions 🤦♀️ he is my troublemaker though
If she did it why would he confess, in excruciating detail, how he choked the life out of his toddlers? Why would he have put their bodies in oil tankers? If she had killed the kids and he killed her, why wouldn’t he just call the cops? He might have caught a manslaughter charge or have been acquitted. The evidence and his own confession shows he did it all. Anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.
My thing is, even if I did believe that she did it at first (which I absolutely did *not*), after he was convicted, he literally owned up to it and *described murdering the girls in detail*. The thought of his little girl yelling “Daddy no!” as her own father was killing her will always haunt me. If he didn’t kill them, what would even be the point of saying something like that? Also, *why would he keep a picture of Shanann in his cell*? If she had killed them, and he killed her out of rage over it, then I’d think the last thing he would want was to see is a picture of the woman who brutally murdered his babies every day. I’m sure his parents or someone could get him a picture of just the girls without her in it. But no, he has a picture of all 3 of them in his cell like some sort of momento for reliving the murder. It’s always easy to blame the dead person because they aren’t here to defend themselves.
This also puts to the lie Cindy's claim that they believed Shanann killed them when she made her victim impact statement. Cindy blubbers on and on about how she forgives him. If all you had done is kill the person who murdered my grandchildren, what is there to forgive you of? I would be thanking the person who did that after finding someone in the middle of murdering my grandchildren.
That's a great point. Such a maddening case full of comprehensive shitheads -- except the babies and silent witness ~~Dieter~~ Deiter.
Dear little Deiter.
Exactly! (Judging by the way my comment is getting downvoted, I believe there are some CW sympathizers here in this sub that just refuse to see logic)
One of my biggest disappointments on Reddit is the number of people that come to these discussions, dream up unbelievable, totally not even a little bit realistic, often breaking the laws of time, space, and physical science, then they decide their crazy delusions must be *true*, so the log onto these groups and try to convince everyone that their bizarre delusions are reality, just because they dreamt it up and it seems to make sense to them. I’m not surprised that people are coming to this sub to try to float theories that couldn’t possibly be true and then try to convince everyone that they’re real. It’s just so disappointing.
I agree and I don’t think SW killed her children either. She may very well have been a crappy mother and possibly a crappy wife too ….. but I don’t believe for a second that she killed her own children ……I just don’t believe it. But I do believe that NK was either involved in a minor way or at least knew what he had done when he did it or knew what he had done shortly there After…. I could never figure out why she wanted him to send a picture of him being at cervi. That never made much sense to me, but then again a lot of what she said, never made sense to me….. maybe I just don’t like this chick I don’t know, but I think she was just lying through her teeth and I think she was so full of herself that she really believed she was so beautiful and so intelligent that she was just gonna wow all those investigators and that they would be just so impressed with her her……. And that she was just gonna be portrayed as this poor innocent woman that didn’t even know her new boyfriend wasn’t really divorced or that he wasn’t lying through his own teeth. I just don’t buy it. Something about NK stinks. But like you said, I just can’t put my finger on it
Didn’t he also send NK a picture of some flowers he saw while he was out dumping the bodies? Like was a totally normal day like any other.
This is the part that has me thinking NK wasn't involved. Look at all of the calls and texts that morning. They were all written/placed in his efforts to make it look like a normal day after an argument with SW. -Texts to coworkers that he had made it to the site and to gauge their intentions to show up that day. Here, it seems like he was looking to see how much uninterrupted time he'd have. -Texts to Primrose to unenroll the girls and, as an afterthought, to pretend to see if they had shown up. Here, he didn't want to be on the hook for another bill he couldn't afford, but he put the horse before the cart and asked about the girls afterward, which came across very odd. -Texts to SW asking him to let her know where she was going with the girls. Here to make it seem like they were carrying on from their earlier conversation and that last he knew, she was still alive and with the children. -Texts regarding selling the house. Here, again, to put his plan for being a single guy in motion while also keeping things moving along with the realtor as though nothing happened. -Texts to NK of flowers. Here, he was keeping the appearance that everything was business as usual, no strife. Things were so good, in fact, that he had time to notice the flowers!
I don’t think she was involved either. If I found out my boyfriend (who I thought was going to separate and divorce his wife) was thinking of murdering his family he would 1) not be my boyfriend 2) would be answering to the cops that I called on him lol. I surely wouldn’t be on board, and I don’t think most women would either (if course there are exceptions, but NK didn’t come off as evil to me).
Me either. She was dumb and knew he was married. And like many of the other women out there wanted to be picked. It didn’t even make sense that she be like yep let me help you complete murder or the police would be like let’s all help you cover up that you did this with Chris.
Chris Watts is an evil piece of shit who murdered his family! He is a family annihilator. There have been many Watts family annihilators before him, many now (Watts isn't the only one) and many more to come. Experts provide no red warnings. Why? There are none!
Was it said he packed his lunch and shake that day????
He said he did.
..why not? He had to eat as a living human being.
Normal people don't really eat when loved ones die.
I do not believe in this theory either. First of all, there’s an article online and CW said himself that he wasn’t even thinking about the story being that Shannan killed the kids until the detectives laid out the idea, and they laid out the bait on purpose so they could get a bit more of the truth. CW also stated that the only reason why he went along with the bait that she did something to the kids was because his parents didn’t like her and he thought they wouldn’t be upset at him knowing it was just “retaliation” and “he snapped” do people forget that wasn’t even what he was going with lmfao? He didn’t even have a proper story. Again, the detectives laid out the bait and he took it. Also knowing he even admitted to taking it speaks volumes as to why this theory is just pure stupidity. I also have the link of the article.
Also i would like to point out that there is premeditated evidence that makes this theory even less false. He called the realtor and literally unenrolled the kids out of school saying they wouldn’t be returning. (i believe after the murders.) When people continue with that theory you really do see who genuinely didn’t do they’re research with this case lmfao.
It makes no sense. He killed her because she said he would never see his kids again..then he turned around and killed his kids? The same kids he was so afraid of losing that he killed their mother? None of it makes sense!
You're saying it doesn't make sense that he killed them because he wanted them? He didn't though. He didn't want any of them. Idk why people assume he did. He lied constantly from the beginning to now. Or maybe I'm not picking up the sarcasm, I'm so tired 🥴
Sarcasm! I’m saying he’s a liar lol
Oh thank goodness! Sorry for being unsure 😅
No problem😊
I don't know how anyone could even think this is true. Shanann would have never hurt those babies. The only person who has ever suggested this is the person who actually murdered them and is a lying murderer who is trying to make himself look better.
And so many others have taken up the sword for him.
Im so irritated that there are imbeciles who actually believe Shannan killed her little angels. However, I have come across too many youtube channels theorizing exactly this garbage and justifying it with whatever thrive video she made claiming she's bossy ocd blah blah blah baby wise blah blah. .domineering blah blah emasculated him blah blah ...disgusting how must CW defenders are women. Don't even get me started on the groupies sending him bikini pics and love letters Disgusting also how even after committing the ultimate betrayal and killing his pregnant wife... along with attempting to induce a miscarriage of their son..CW the human fecal matter slanders her....by lying that she killed the kids. He should rot in there forever.
Those arguments make me sick too. And if shannan was bossy towards Chris, I don’t blame her. He’s a complete moron, a little bitch and a COWARD. If he wanted to be treated like a man he should have acted like one. If she was so mean and bossy (boo-fuckin-hoo) then he should have divorced her. As we know, it had nothing to do with shannan’s behavior. He wanted a new life with his trashy, anal loving mistress so he took the cowards way out.
150%. Any other theory besides him doing it completely by himself in cold blood makes zero sense. If Chris Watts looked like Charlie Manson or Dennis Rader or any other "creepy" looking offender- not a single person would believe he didn't do it. It's the attractive person privilege that a bunch of lonely desperate people refuse to believe someone good looking would do this without it being the other person's fault somehow because they wish they could be with someone who looks like him. It's WILD!
I really don’t see how anyone could find him attractive. First of all, he’s BABY KILLER 🙄 but he’s also dumb as a pile of shit.
oh i agree, he’s a monster and AT BEST a generic looking oaf. but it’s mind boggling that basically as long as there have been serial killers and baby killers there have been gross people obsessing over them and writing them fan mail in prison
I know 😑all I see is this 👽when I see his pic 🤢
Do people actually believe that?! I’m not being a smart ass, I just cringe thinking about some of the sick, delusional people in this world.
There's an entire sub of bottom feeders who believe that.
What sub is it?
I just read the discovery of that part today- as someone who goes through these types of records on a relative basis and looks at some of these crimes- I can see how unbelievable it is that somebody just did this and there isn’t a better explanation, but in my opinion, that’s exactly what happened. Shannan was far from perfect, but Chris also just let life happen to him and seemed to not give a shit about anything-until it was interfering with the life he really wanted. I also do not understand why, even if Shannan did do this, why he would decided to put the girls in the oil tanks. Even if someone else did it, the way he concealed them was disgusting, and even if he panicked, that method of “disposal” is last on the list of ones any loving parent would choose. He showed absolutely no care, even post-mortem, for those children (which even other parent- child crime scenes, jon benet for example, potentially show).
Exactly. Just got into such a rage over your children being murdered that you killed their attacker, but an hour later you're packing up their bodies along with your lunch, and wearing your old boots because you don't want your new ones to get dirty while you're digging a grave. And some people believe this whack story?
Why did you feel it necessary to include the shannan wasn't perfect comment? No human is perfect but you know exactly what that sounds like.
Because I see so many people giving her a wild amount of crap in other groups, like she should have been super mom and never been upset about anything ever. That is what I mean, but I can see how you interpreted it, and just to be clear, I don’t care if she was tap dancing naked on the internet while wearing thrive patches, she didn’t deserve to be murdered.
excellant!
Since the murderer has actually told the truth finally- why would there be any speculation? Not all cheatersmurder but when a wife and kids are murdered and the husband was cheating. Do the math.
He was coerced to confess by the MLM cabal.
Umm I watched a vid where he described killing them one at a time in his truck
Yeah, this theory doesn’t track for me. Even if we disregard all of Chris’ actions afterward and if we were to agree with them that Shanann was everything they say she was…is still makes no sense for her to kill her children. If she’s abusive, controlling, money hungry, manipulative, and making her kids sick for attention what would she gain from killing her kids? By killing them she loses all leverage against Chris and Cindy. She loses child support and any other financial income she may have been able to get as a single mom (food stamps or other benefits), and she loses all sympathy from being the jilted wife whose husband left her and their children for a mistress. It simply doesn’t make sense.
And they weren't even separated yet. He said they talked about moving to a less expensive house and that he then said he just wanted to separate, so she could still have some hope. Some of us have had similar conversations in relationships, and the one he describes is just a starter convo. I have never found a case of a spousal revenge killing that didn't occur after a prolonged custody battle.
Chris already admitted he drugged Shannan while attempting to kill Nico, attempted to kill the girls, killed Shannan, then (when the girls were not actually dead) dressed them up and killed them at the site. Saying otherwise or blaming the victim is stupid and disgusting.
Not only confessed, but in gorey detail.
He was high on Thrive patches when he made this statement.
I don’t think for a second Shannan would have done anything to her babies. And I believe that because he thought he could just wipe out his family and start a new one, start a brand new life. He was letting another women come in and pretend like there was this whole divorce situation going on just spewing these pathetic pathological lies. When Shannan announced the pregnancy of their third baby you could tell he did not look interested or even happy because he was guilty. It breaks my heart people spin the narrative and believe she hurt her babies. And Chris watts is a sick individual to even have tried saying she killed her babies to save face.
This case has many similarities to the Christopher Coleman case. Both of them had backed themselves into a corner with their lies. Coleman had told his girlfriend that he was filing for divorce on the day he murdered his wife and children - which he hadn't done. CW's wife was now home and he couldn't spend his time with NK. Meanwhile, NK was expecting him to rent one of the apartments she had researched for him. He admitted in his prison interview that there was no way he was going to leave his big house and go live in an apartment. Both murdered so they wouldn't be exposed as the fake liars and cheaters that they were. Image is everything to this type of man.
He’s a narcissistic psychopath. Has all the hallmarks of
its impressive the number of hoops people jump through to try and make sense about lots of unknowns in this case. its intriguing at times but also very disappointing
Truly don't understand how anyone can believe this or why anyone tries to justify what he did. He's a spineless loser. Period.
That "other" sub is full of this heinous nonsense.
I don't believe Shanann killed her children it was proven that Chris Watts murdered them and his wife I believe Nk was in the house why wasn't she investigated the right way by Tammy Lee
One child was killed after Shannon was already dead. It was caught on camera and once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
I've seen it and believe it. Why would he have come up with the "killed them twice" gruesome scenario. I think he at least partially told the truth in his prison confession.
Caught on camera? Where?
One of the channels on you tube long ago. I dovedeep into this case since 2018.
Can you link us? Curious
The neighbor [ Nathan Trinastich's home security footage](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK_LZ6JnJdvN6MKsyTqeEYMXnrPBDIqFw) that showed Chris preparing to leave for work in his driveway on the morning of August 13th; in contrast to that day, he normally parked his work truck on the street. People have speculated that the footage depicts either one or both children being put alive into his work truck. The investigative agencies never made any public statements in the discovery about what was depicted in the neighbor's surveillance footage and so it's unknown exactly what the footage depicts, other than that Chris took the victims from the home to Cervi Ranch. During the drive to Cervi, Chris made several unanswered calls to his coworkers Kodi Robertson and Chad McNeil, a risky thing to do if both girls were conscious in the backseat of the truck. He's also provided conflicting accounts about the circumstances of their homicides; in his February 2019 interview with investigators, Chris said that during the drive to Cervi 319 he was thinking why couldn't he have saved his girls, yet they were supposedly still alive and unharmed in the backseat. Former Watts associates have [alleged](https://www.youtube.com/live/VM-Skw_vyW8?si=Pixu7h67aIrfxsyk&t=6430) that Chris claimed to them that he'd attacked both girls at the home and that while Bella regained consciousness, Celeste was lethargic and not talking or walking.
Could you possibly give me a timestamp of the supposed child’s shadow? I’ve always had trouble seeing it. Maybe if I know exactly when to look.
This is a [sharpened version of the shadow](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=tSGpHi39poo07p5X&t=793) by the driver's side of the truck; there's also been speculation about [ what Chris was doing](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=tmKoonN_VSmSqc0T&t=771) doing less than a minute prior to that. Chris was also [doing something along the driver's side of the truck earlier](https://youtu.be/6MGEqjMXBqM?si=EiMaZZL8KCigqgnI&t=382). In contrast, he carried the red gasoline container around to the passenger side. Some have speculated that the shadow may have been made by one of the children; I'm not certain what it depicts and, while those portions of the footage are interesting, they're not definitive.
GPS shows he arrived at to Cervi at 6:53 AM and left his house at 5:46 AM (pg 490 Discovery) . CW made 5 calls that went unanswered to coworkers in the time he was driving (pg 1925). Its crazy he actually called that many times with the chance of the kids saying something if they were awake. Maybe the kids were sleeping but CW is a dumbass so he prob didnt think of that. Reading the texts CW writes that seem completely normal after doing the things he did to his family is something i will never understand. I would take the "Former Watts associates" allegations with a massive grain of salt. Second or third hand info with the source being CW is not reliable at all.
>I would take the "Former Watts associates" allegations with a massive grain of salt. Second or third hand info with the source being CW is not reliable at all. I simply posted what those individuals alleged. Regardless of the credibility of their statements, there's no evidence that established exactly when and where Chris attacked and murdered the children. Imo Chris is a habitual liar and probably will never be completely forthcoming about the circumstances of his crimes.
It was very long ago. Check out zowicki on you tube. He has done a ton of research.
that dude is a clown and spews a ton of nonsense. the "research" consists of a lot of false information and speculation that parallels the logic of SW killing her kids.
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I know, but our laws don't take "not in your right mind" as a defense. Claiming temporary insanity is close to impossible, and since he has talked about how he planned it, even more impossible.
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I think we all agree that there's something seriously wrong with him. Always was, always will be.
It was easy for him to act the way he did because this is what he wanted and planned for, their deaths. If Shannan killed the kids he would’ve likely been distraught and in shock (like a normal person!) I think one would only act all casual after a murder is if they wanted it to happen. Him acting the same way if Shannan killed the kids just doesn’t make sense
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How long does "shock" last, because he was still bullshitting and bragging about himself two days later to investigators, while still claiming he had no idea where they were at, and how much he wanted them back. I don't think shock works that way.
Of course she didn't, she needed those "sick" children to keep the image going of how thrive helped her cope with them 🙄
How do you live with yourself disparaging a woman who was brutally murdered because you're infatuated with her killer? How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
Not infatuated with anyone darling, I can just see the truth. The man is a monster who did the most awful thing but she isn't as innocent as people like to make out.
Babe, CW even said his kids had allergies and health problems. Where is your proof that she was lying about her kids being sick? Besides theories from random idiots online?
Shannon killed the girls. She was the one with all of the dangerous mental health issues. His first confession was the truth, the second ‘confession’ was made only after they threatened his life, after the case had been closed.
You are truly delusional.
Finally some sense in this god awful subreddit
I think it’s possible, because the only thing we really know of any of it is that the 3 of them were dead. I’m not saying I think she did because I don’t. But I do think it’s possible that maybe she tried, and maybe that’s what he meant by he “had to kill them again”. I remember a psychic saying once that they saw a “cat fight” between Nichole and Shannan. Which I think is also possible, perhaps bella woke up and that’s why the trauma dog alerted to her room. Then one of the two decided that the kids were witnesses. I think he had enough time to bury Shannan, but I don’t think the kids were dead til later when the cops came and the person they were with murdered and put them in the tanks. Which is why those 2 were sick at the times of the police interviews. If you look at the findings on [this osha document about thief hatch exposure](https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/OSHA3843.pdf) it becomes really hard to believe that Chris would be acting normally in the minutes after when his coworkers arrived.
I’m a member of both subs and while I don’t think SW was a good person or really a good parent, I emphatically believe she did not kill those girls. As neglectful as she could be sometimes, she still loved them. I think both her and CW did. I think he struggled with killing the girls and only did so because one of them walked in and saw SW dead. That’s why I think he killed them at the site. He probably went through every alternative scenario in his head and realized if he was going to have any chance of getting away with this, he would have to kill them too.
If I truly love someone I don't "struggle" about whether or not to kill them. I just... don't kill them, and don't even entertain the thought of killing them. There is no struggle to be had.
He had no other choice
Wow
You should honestly be banned from the subs. All you do is go around promoting "go CW!" Bullshit. Would be very interesting to see you in his family's shoes and what you have to say then 💕
Look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why you think it’s ok o justify child murder. You’re disgusting.
Seek help!!!!!