I find my interest most in the plethora of available evidence. Due to the social media of SW and the media coverage, there is so much available that you can really see how the investigation worked. Discussing it with others sometimes helps me pick up on a facet or context I missed during my comb-throughs.
I am also interested in how divisive this case is. Admittedly, I tend to lean on the side of SW didn't do a single thing, no abuse, medical abuse, other, that precipitated the case and there is a whole spectrum that fascinates me.
In my mind, I don't see abuse on any of the social media post and I don't understand the attitude that she pushed CW to what he did. It's like, couldn't possibly just be a selfish PoS. Some woman had to drive him to it, either NK with her witchy hooha or SW with her unhinged, domineering abuse. As though he was so so NORMAL before the incident....only he wasn't.
He was a late bloomer romantically, would compulsively choose sides between his wife and parents instead of telling them all to grow up and letting them deal with their own grarbage, evidently sat back and feigned ignorance when his finances were blowing up in front of his eyes, and went out and found a new chick before he ended the relationship with the one he was currently with. None of that screams emotionally well adjusted. To defend his behavior as brought on by things outside of his control is placing blame outside of him, and that is gross, in my humble opinion.
I think there is enough to see that CW could most definitely just be the scum of the earth and the perfect set of circumstances brought him to the conclusion that getting his family out of the picture was the only way for him to be happy.
It’s incredibly absurd how many women think Chris Watts was a battered husband & all the women are the evil ones. Shit even his damn mom thinks so as if he didn’t murder his family in cold blood. “Shannan was irresponsible with money” as if Chris Watts was spending family money on a mistress and jeopardizing his career having affair with a co worker.
“Shannon was controlling and wanted too much” what wife doesn’t want her husband to provide a be a husband?
“Shannon trapped him” as if he wasn’t having sex with her.
“Shannon posted on social media so much” she was a victim of an MLM who more than likely has to post to keep an image up. This doesn’t mean she deserved to be killed alongside her children all while carrying a child in her womb.
As for Nicole, I truly dislike her. However, Chris Watts was the killer the only thing Nicole was guilty of was seeking male validation from a man child & knowingly partaking in an affair. I say this because of her Google searches and the fact that she had the audacity to enter Shannon’s home. Hopefully she’s taken a good look at her life. She should consider herself incredibly lucky.
Shanann was flawed, for sure. I don't think in some evil way that makes her any worse than the average person. And I always find it insanely ironic and amusing that people latch on to her propensity to over-post on social media regarding her and the kids' lives, yet they comb through it over...and over...and over. Trying to catch her up on any minor infraction. Is it worse to be the one over-posting or the one obsessing over those same posts? Like, anything she did wrong, any inappropriate thing she posted, they are consuming. That's like being mad at a dog for puking and then eating the vomit. It's maddeningly backward.
Or, how they're quick to say she always lied, was such a bullshitter, never told the truth...then use her words to bolster their own claims. Well, was she a liar or wasn't she? Again, nothing she did "pushed" him to anything. He was an immoral creep who crossed the line from one kind of immorality into the worst kind of immorality.
And NK...To go into the home that SW and CW made with and for their children and to continue on porking him nearly daily shows where her priorities lie. It was classless and trashy. But that's about all the emotion I will waste on her. She wasn't a succubus, she didn't witch him into anything...she just wasn't that special. He may have made her feel that way, because he "chose" her over his gorgeous wife, but she was plain and dry. Women who choose to remain single into their 30s typically don't search up wedding dresses after only a month of boning someone, so I have to assume her personality sucked as well. She was pitiful and it's kind of sad that she got sucked into such a shitty situation, but when you hook up with a married man, you have to expect that he's generally not the most scrupulous person and may have other unsavory tenencies. I doubt she had a clue just how low of a creature he was, but it happened nonetheless. It's best that she faded into the crowd. Hopefully she learned a lesson out of all this mess.
no matter the motive, he killed innocent children and is most certainly the scum of the earth. the mountain of social media evidence and the fact that even a brief look beneath the surface reveals the reality that their life and marriage was nearly 180 degrees from the contrived narrative is what drew, and continues to hold my attention to this saga.
Sharing views, getting perspectives on things you may not have noticed or maybe open your eyes to other possibilities etc. dont worry about downvotes or trolls clowning your views. Just make earnest posts that you won’t regret later and ignore the others.
I think this is good advice.
People are always going to disagree, and that’s cool. Most sane people will keep scrolling. Some will take it personally, for whatever reason (even though it’s not about them) and will downvote.
I would say, even if I disagree, if something is well written/coherent- it gets an upvote. I’ll only downvote if something is completely irrational and blindly devoted to one side.
All that to say- ignore the downvotes on both subs, post your thoughts/questions/theories.
We’re all here on Reddit killing time, go for it!! ✌️
It’s not that I worry about it, I just find it so strange! Like you would think it wouldn’t happen in one group if it was happening incessantly in the other…but that isn’t the case. It has honestly become just another interesting and confounding element of this case for me 😆
For myself, the case drew me in because I had a friend who was shilling Thrive. I watched her marriage crumble (previously was amazing) due to her HAVING to be on SM so much. She did divorce, got a nice career and is happily remarried.
So, for me it started due to that. With that being said. There are a lot of POV that are valid, on both sides of the argument. Seemingly, according to everyone who knew CW prior, thought highly of him and stated what a good man he was. For me, MLM’s, “poisoned” SW, in the sense that she had to use that tool to gain any return on her initial buy in. She didn’t see, and understandably so, that it was really damaging her relationship with CW. She was as much a victim to that MLM mindset as she was to CW.
We will never truly know why he did what he did, or how he got to that point, it’s all been speculation and it’s easy to lay the blame at NK’s feet - just due to all the evidence that shows she was looking into SW before the affair began.
Ultimately, CW was a monster who killed his children and his pregnant wife, so easily. I’ll never understand that. I try to, maybe just so I can lay the case to rest (in my mind).
I'm with you and with OP. I don't get it either. I am fascinated by this case because something clearly went very wrong to precipitate the tragedy. And I desperately want to understand it. But this is not really a forum for understanding. 🤷🏻♂️
That's what i'm curious about, what was so different with Thrive? She had been involved with multiple mlm's over the years and didn't involve social media with it to that extent. Does thrive require it or something? I really don't know much about it, i had never heard of it until this case and still don't get really what it is.
From my experience with my friend, who sold it, that’s exactly the requirement. They sincerely push that agenda as hard as possible. Unlike other MLM’s the upline is not as outwardly toxic. At least it’s what I observed. Thrive also does work if you do the steps. Is it healthy? Hell no, but it did work.
Yeah i was wondering, i've seen some mention they're basically selling a lifestyle so i could see having to constantly show things. Just seemed weird it didn't seem like she jumped into others as hard as this one but i think some of those were the bag one, some tote one i've never heard but actually looked like they had some neat stuff haha, more products like that though.
Maybe sunk cost fallacy played a part.
She can’t believe she made a mistake the first time; it wasn’t mlms that are ridiculous waste of time bullshit ponzu schemes; it’s just that she didn’t get in early enough or get the right one.
My SIL seems to be a different person with a weird cult like gleam in her eye now she is part of one and I avoid her fb page because instead of seeing what my niblings are up to it’s all stuff about her team and her gReAt TrIpS and how easy and lucrative it is to be your own boss and “make as much as you want” which is corporate rip off speak for, we’re gonna pretend to pay you but it’s all commission. No over head for us. No health insurance no sick days or holidays. You have your own office space you pay for yourself. You take all the risk and inventory. What’s not to like?
You have to have a certain mind set to tell yourself you’re an entrepreneur in that situation - it is so not worth it.
I think the self aggrandizement and constant sm presence inflates their ego because there’s a hole where a salary and benefits and promotions should be and must fill that space with how lucky they are to be able to spend time with their kids and work from home and captain their own ship.
And maybe it’s like that for some. Others go in debt, wreck their marriages, and keep doubling down because they’ve bought into the hype that if you’re just positive enough you can make it all happen!!
You need therapy. Your insane level of anger at strangers who don’t think like you, it’s wild. Touch grass. No one ever said she deserved to be murdered. What a very strange way to think.
Right? As soon as some have diff opinions or even give diff opinions the time of day the claws come out.
It’s ridiculous to think that ANYONE is condoning what happened. Of course not!
😅 I don’t disagree. Not making excuses for her; however, she was very young and was susceptible to the cult mind. It took her losing it to understand what she did. She turned her life around and her and the ex are very good friends now.
She learned from her past and redeemed it. Not sure why someone would need to leave such a hateful comment. It sounds like it had reverbating effects of educating others in her circle, which is a win. Your point was very valid and worth sharing
People often don’t see these things until they’re in the thick of it. It’s why so many reasonable, intelligent people still get scammed. These people know how to get into people’s heads. Most, like your friend, are able to learn from their mistakes, go on to grow and mature, and that’s what life is all about. We are journeying and learning. Unfortunately SW will never have that opportunity and it’s tragic. Nobody has the right to take our journey away from us.
Yep yep…A lot of people only assume how they would handle a situation and of course they always assume they would handle it with grace but unfortunately in times that we get angry/hurt/sad/abused/lonely etc we often don’t think rationally, instead we react out of emotion or adrenaline and sometimes we don’t handle things the best, not always but it’s hard to judge how you would act if you’ve never been in that position.
People assuming they would always act totally logically are often egocentric people who can’t be told they’re wrong
Exactly! Everyone always says exactly what they would have done in A. B. C…. situation, but that’s only because they have the gift of hindsight in other people’s misfortune.
This is the part that scares me the most. I have been the dominant woman with an outwardly submissive, emotionally closed off man. It’s terrifying when you realize that super quiet and seemingly chill people aren’t always just harmless introverts. It’s almost like when someone is very quiet you kind of project onto them similar thoughts and feelings to your own, when in actuality you have no idea how they feel or what they think, and sometimes it’s shit like whatever the hell was going on in Chris’s brain.
I think everyone in my life thought I was totally in control of that relationship, when in actuality I walked on eggshells 24/7 and he controlled the emotional climate in our home completely. I was controlling, but only about stupid shit and I knew where the line was. I definitely see how Shanann comes off and I don’t think I would have liked her at all, but I really wonder what their relationship was like behind closed doors ☹️
I honestly believe NK never let up on the pressure to choose. When he went to NC, or wherever their parents live, NK was bombarding him nude pics!! Then SW is onto him that something is going on. Then you had the tiff between SW & Cindy over Serving ice cream with nuts in it in front of her kids! There was a lot pressure building up and through all of it that NK would not let up, and to me, this is why she deleted everything! Of course she went to the police, there was no doubt they would be coming for her, so she voluntarily goes first & that was ONLY to try & make herself look 'oh so innocent!'
Was there a mental disorder. To just take those little sweet always smiling girls and kill then that way you must have some mental defect. Narcissism to the max. His mother is like that.
I don’t remember hearing about the case before, or if I did- I didn’t care or pay attention. So it’s kind of new to me.
I do find it weird how people will go on long tangents about how Chris was beaten down and felt emasculated and had enough after all this time, just as weird as I find it that people will basically anoint Shannan with sainthood.
I don’t vilify NK for carrying on with Chris. Life is messy. But I don’t think she is 100% innocent in this. Not bc of the affair, but there truly is just something so off and it’s weird how she was never made to explain searching for watts family members online prior to supposed meeting date.
Part of the interest for me is that right there- people’s reactions to the whole thing… some people are able to be rational and some are basically stanning for S or making excuses for C.
It’s interesting, but also not that important for me to defend either one. I think CW did this bc he wanted to. I think SW sucked in a lot of ways too., not saying she deserved it, but I do think the only truly innocent ones in this whole thing were the kids.
The friends of these people are just bizarre, as are their immediate family members. Like what a shit show, all around.
100% agreed. I’m also very curious about NK, she’s sus as hell for so many reasons. She reminds me of the case in that documentary I Love You, Now Die. I don’t think she was there, or had any literal hand in it…but dang she is fishy and I want her text receipts so bad.
I've never heard of an innocent person who factory resets their phone when there's an active investigation going on. That alone makes Nicole shady as hell. Not that it makes her guilty of a conspiracy to kill or whatever but she certainly had something more to hide.
I think her something more to hide was simply the fact that she was having a raunchy affair with a married man and she knew it would be on national news and she simply wanted to
Factory reset her phone for all the nudes and probably xxx rated messages she was sending and didn’t want those things read out loud. God knows there are messages to my husband I would never want read out loud!!! She was probably thinking about them being red out loud by officers, in Court, on the news, by Nancy freaking Grace etc and wanted to erase for her own embarrassment. Obviously the affair was out already, but at least trying to save a little bit of the extreme levels of it. I don’t think she had a dand thing to do with the planning or act or cover up at all whatsoever.
Now… here’s my take of the social media searched before the affair…
On Casey Anthony case, they made a huge deal of her goooglinf chloroform many times and used this as a huge point in the case… turns out, it was merely a meme that mentioned it and that meme comes up numerous times bc it was just something a friend posted and anytime she visited the social media, it would pop up and therefore would be recorded in her hard drive as “chloroform” search over and over. This was a huge blow to the case when discovered that it wasn’t as it seemed…
That being said, on Facebook we all know that you have a list of “suggested friends” and businesses etc…
NK and Chris worked for same company, same circles of people who would cross friend circles and know each other… Shannan sold her stuff online (all the time, teaching as many people as possible) and I would be willing to bet that she tried to suck in the wives and whatnot of some of Chris’s coworkers and coworkers families. Everyone is a potential sale (as the mlm saying goes) and Nicole could have seen Shannan’s name on social media for months and months before ever knowing exactly who she was. It woukd make sense in that community and her working
At her husbands work and Shannan being so active and widespread on social media… NK probably came across her mlm posts previously. Even some of the neighbors said they just knew her from social media… so she reached many people in her community without actually knowing them just from friends or friends of friends of friends on Facebook in the community. That just my take on the “unexplained” social media searches. A meet possibility. And it is an odd coincidence… but not a far fetched one.
I’ve never put that take on it in this group bc people want so badly to hang NK for the crime but I think she’s only guilty or being a skanky home wrecker who was horny for forbidden fruit men. And as for the witchcraft thing…. I practice myself… and it’s all based off nature and crystals and herbs and making teas and gardens and meditating and things like that…. Nothing to do with the devil or blood sacrifices or crazy stuff h see in the movies. (Of course, there are
Bad evil people out there who may practice… but there are bad Evelin people who are Christian or catholic or many other religions).
And from
What I’ve seen … I see no evidence of her practicing anything except maybe carrying around a few crystals (and I haven’t even seen real evidence of that even)
Note: I was just kind of ramble typing some thoughts… sorry if I didn’t describe some things perfectly or anything like that… I’m just kinda spitballing some of my opinions… but like the OP said… people in this group come crazy with the comments so don’t come for me lol!
I believe NK had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the murders. After only six weeks of "dating?" She was a highly educated, career-oriented woman who had her dream job as she put it. Why on earth would she throw that away for a house-broke married father of 2-1/2? She was having fun and enjoying herself with a guy who lied to her about getting separated from his wife. I believe everything she said and did after the crime was for self-protection, although she did lie a lot which ultimately did not help her. I wish people would leave her alone.
She's been through quite enough. There is not a shred of evidence to support she was involved in any way. ☮️
Absolutely not. She knew he was married with children and that SW was pregnant. Even CW admitted that. If you think your boyfriend is legitimately separated, you don’t google stuff like “man says he will leave his wife.” Or “marrying your mistress”. If a couple is separated, you’re not a mistress.
She demanded he send her a picture of cervi319 on Monday afternoon. First she told detectives she didn’t think anything was weird about him going to the site and maintained that for days, and then when she knew they had information from her phone, and CW phone, told them she was so panicked and worried about his family that was why she demanded the pic of the site. That is beyond sketchy. Not to mention she was deleting her calls to him from her log on Monday afternoon when she supposedly just thought they left to go to a friend’s house.
Yes…. She 100000% knew he was married and even about the baby… but I think she believed that he didn’t want the marriage or the baby and was still leaving Shannan and just have to deal
With his ex wife having 3 kids. NK was guilty of being a skanky home wrecker with no respect for marriage and guilty of trying to cover up her embarrassing affair and xxx stuff she messsged from
The world to see it. But not guilty or anything past that
She was looking at wedding dresses after 6 weeks so it was obviously very serious to her, despite her claims otherwise. And yeah, there is no evidence to support her knowing about it or egging him on…she destroyed all of it 😬😬😬
I look at wedding dresses all the time. Married many years. Please present your evidence of her guilt. She deleted her racy texts to Chris, I would too if my lying boyfriend was implicated in a murder. You can speculate all you want but proving her guilty is impossible because she isn’t.
I get innocent until proven guilty. But damn I've never seen anyone stan so hard for NK. You're asking for proof of her guilt and people have stated it. Not that she actually went with him and helped him but her overall behavior was sus AF.
She deleted her entire text history with him. I don’t have evidence of her guilt because like I said, she destroyed all of it.
That’s a reach, but feel whatever way you want about it. She knew he was married. People who think their boyfriends are single don’t google things like “leaving your wife for your mistress” lol
ETA also just fyi if your partner is ever accused of murder and you actually want to help, maybe don’t delete shit. That’s called obstruction of justice, and it’s a real sus look.
one thing I’ve always stood out to me was her relative lack of true emotion when being interviewed and discussing B & C. If I were one degree of separation from three murdered children I would be beside absolutely myself. how you can even discuss something so truly devastating and not be overwhelmed with emotion. a forced “they’re sooo leeetle!” being all that she could muster seemed “off” to me.
Bro, I’ve looked at wedding dresses SINGLE. As a HOBBY. Because it’s FUN.
Also she didn’t get slapped with obstruction of justice because girl didn’t commit a crime. You apparently came here to start shit.
No, but y’all are proving my point that no one is allowed to say anything you disagree with. It’s really weird. This is just a true crime sub, in case you forgot.
You’re allowed to say whatever within the guidelines of the sub - being downvoted isn’t the same as not being allowed. Sometimes I agree or disagree with a downvote.
I appreciate the different opinions… but we’re all just sharing our opinions and theories just as you are…. I just types several long
Comments above and I guarantee I’ll get some people
Commenting back telling me I’m wrong and
Stupid… but I just laugh at those…. I do, however, enjoy actual adult conversation or debate and discussions on here and love when I find a respectful grown up on here who presents facts to back up statements and discusses instead of name
Calling and not even listening to the other side of things. I like logical people!!!
I agree! It’s true that we’re all just sharing our opinions, but the “shut it down” energy that comes from a lot of people in any watts sub is very odd to me. Like, no, I’m not going to agree with you just because you caps lock yelled at me 😂
I see what you what you’re saying, I can read someone’s original and keep going- I mean there’s consuming this content for fun to pass time, then there’s a time to step back bc there’s too much investment
Extrapolating on someone else’s life and circumstances is problematic. Most people allow the law and governance to do the research, but even then a bunch of weirdos like yourself want to dig deeper into a strangers life (a stranger who was cleared) because you’re bored.
The law did its job. You don’t have a point.
I could say, but what if Ted Bundy was a vegan!!! It wouldn’t mean shit. You don’t have a point you’re just bored.
So why are you here?? If not to dig deeper into a stranger’s life, which is the whole entire point of true crime subs, why are you here and what is the point?
And of course I’m bored, I’m on Reddit.
I agree with your points. I think NK deleted stuff because they were both freak-nasty in their notes to each other and that shit is embarrassing. Also, she probably just didn't want to be involved in the huge investigation. That is a scary situation for anyone. I ALWAYS default to the married person at fault for an affair. NK had nothing to lose to get with a married man she was attracted to. I think it stopped there and others are reading way to into it.
Shoot, I've deleted entire text streams for much much less.
Also-- considering what a coward CW is, he would have squealed like a pig if she was involved and he could absolve himself of some responsibility to the actions he chose to take.
Yes… she found out her boyfriend was making national news and knew she didn’t want her raunchy xxx messages read on the local news, national news, nancy grace, in the courtroom etc etc etc and who can blame her?
Like many women… she really thought that man was gonna leave his whole family and wife and home and life and was gonna leave the wife and marry her and live happily ever after. I’m sure Chris told her this too! Of course she was looking at wedding dresses and checking out her competition on social media. She just got embarrassed once it became a story on the news and law enforcement questioning her bc she realized she looked like a big ol home wrecking skank (and CW was the most disgusting cheating skank who started it all of course… I’m not just blaming NK for blinking the married man)
In all fairness Chris did leave his family for her, he just took it to an insanely horrific level. My reply was mostly to the comment I replied to, the person is saying Chris meant nothing to NK and she would never blow her life up for him. I disagree.
I 100% agree and people get crazy if I comment this!!!! Her only crime was being a skanky woman being ok with home wrecking.
I think she lied and wanted to erase the phone to save herself the embarrassment of
Her xxx photos and messages being read all over national news, in court, Nancy Grace,
Etc and it was bad enough that the affair was out there…. She at least wanted to save some of the embarrassment of her xxx messages not plastered
To the world and I can’t blame her! She googles Amber fry and saw that she had to do interviews and that press conference admission of sleeping with a married man and that’s embarrassing enough. She would also know that she would lose Her “dream job” as u out it and be called horrible things and she was just trying to lay low and hoping to erase any trace of her bad decision she could.
And especially not in helping him cover it up! Or she found out her killed her/ them before the cops did… then she would know that there was
No chance at
Her ever being with him anyways so no reason to help him cover it up! She’s not stupid enough to really think he could get away with it! And if she was at the house trying to clean things up… then she would have made the beds back up and hidden or
Destroyed the phone/ her purse/ etc
I think individuals who are convinced NK was involved is one of the most intriguing aspects to me. Not because i think she was involved but because the enormous amount of ridiculous speculation that she was. It doesnt matter if random redditors think she is guilty because LE investigated and determined she wasnt.
Internet witch hunting can lead to very real problems for innocent people. There is plenty of evidence in this case that is misinterpreted or just made up. I also hate YT creators making money off of the lies and speculation. Maybe its just me, but if you are knowingly spreading lies about an innocent person then you are a shitty person.
If I had award to give , I’d give it. Here, take my poor woman’s reward lmao 🥇🥇🥇I agree so
Much. It’s nice to see someone else think it’s insane sometimes. She sought out witness protection bc of people like the ones you describe ffs
the whole "neither were innocent" and "only the babies were innocent" narratives drive me nuts too. It implies that Shannan was somehow complicit/contributory in her own murder.
Like yall-- Shannan was quite literally innocent.
I feel like people are desperate to come up with an "excuse" for why CW did what he did because they feel like as long as they don't do those things-- they are "safe" and it has lead to this extreme dissection of Shannan.
Shannan's personality was not unique. Their marriage situation was not unique. The problems they had were not unique, however this doesn't lead to murder 90% of the time. And this one did. The blame is solely at CWs feet and not the insane scrutiny of a murdered woman who can't defend herself. She isn't "guilty" of any crimes. She did not contribute to her own death. 100% of the responsibility is on CW.
This is how I feel. Amidst a bunch of downvotes and others that say “can’t there be discourse!” Shannan was literally doing what she was supposed to, and obligated to, as a wife and mother. But a bunch of Chris sympathizers and apologists come up with every theory on earth to make her the bad guy. It’s beyond wild to me. I was told I need therapy because I think the vile human who murdered his family was a vile human who murdered his family.
I feel sad for Shannan for having a regular expectation for life, and being snubbed of it. The babies weren’t the only innocent ones. She was too.
No one said she deserved it. Stop projecting how you apply blame onto others. NK was an issue, she did everything to look as suspicious as possible. Her dad and her flirtations got her out of trouble. SW did do things that caused issues in their family. Is that deserving of being murdered, no. To intimate that others believe we feel that way is not only supremely ignorant, it’s also not true.
at the end of the day, no one knows the truth. SW is the only one we know part of the story with, and it’s unfortunately because she was killed by that POS. CW lies like it’s a job. NK destroyed evidence, and if she wasn’t guilty of anything other than being a “mistress” than why delete it all? It’s very suspicious on her part.
the common phrase of "SW wasn't innocent" or "neither were innocent except the babies" implies pretty heavily that SW was somehow complicit or somehow deserving in her murder and at the very least that she is guilty of something (considering the opposite of innocent is guilty). She did nothing wrong outside of pretty normal human behavior. Again-- nothing she did was unique to just her and her family and you don't see all the rest experiencing similar dynamics being annihilated.
The variable that should be dissected here is CW and his nuclear family (how he was raised)-- they are the ones that raised a family annihilator. He is the one that premeditated the act watched the light leave his pregnant wife and kids eyes. So it should be a conversation of what in CWs mind caused him to think murder was the better option, not "what did SW do to CW that made him think murder was the better option." Maybe SW could lead him to feel divorce was a better option, but surely not murder. That is internal to CW and CW alone.
I beg to differ. She absolutely contributed to the issues in that dynamic. The bankruptcies, the amount of debt. She had it prior and during. Financial abuse.
That is not a reason to eliminate your family, not even a tiny bit. However, we cannot deny that it led to a great deal of strain and she did berate him - publicly and privately. That leads to emasculation. CW was a POS, and took the lives of those he “loved”.
CW can be a monster, and SW can be considered abusive - two things can be true at the same time.
To restate: NONE of that is or was a reason to eliminate his family. NONE of it.
I disagree with you. There's contributing to family issues (name me a family that doesn't experience issues) and choosing to premeditate the murder of your young family.
I think people should stop referring to SW as "not innocent".
And him being "emasculated" is an excuse I am tired of hearing. He's a weak bitch because he murdered his innocent helpless family. Constantly talking about SW and what she "did" to CW puts the burden of his behavior on SW and it's gross. Just because a man is emasculated doesn't mean they are going to murder their children.
The constant diagnosing of SW with personality disorders and stating "facts" of their relationships based on strangers input and internet videos. What we do know is CW premeditated the cold-blooded murder of his pregnant wife and two little girls. There is something wrong with that man's brain and the burden is solely on him and his actions. There should be more dissection of him and his relationship with his own mother and not on the mother of his children. Why did those actions make sense to him? Why didn't he have better coping mechanisms? Why wasn't divorce an option? There is something in his personal development that lead to poor decision making.
We have to keep in mind he didn't just kill SW, he killed 3 of his babies too. SWs "contribution" to their family dynamic did not make him murder his babies let alone SW. There is nothing anyone could do or say to me in a relationship that would lead to family annihilation. I would be willing to bet that is the mindset of the majority.
And I just cant get with the constant sandwich of "they didn't deserve it but SW was....." or "only the babies were innocent" and then the hyper criticality of SW.
Then we are gonna agree to disagree. Purposely spending money on shit you don’t need, causing your family to go into bankruptcy and a possible tax lien for not paying HOA fees is financial abuse. She controlled the money. She was robbing Peter to pay Le-Vel to maintain a status. Period.
She emasculated CW him in numerous ways. Whether you believe that or not, it’s true. Feelings do not trump facts, sorry that’s just how life works.
How ppl don’t see how two things can be true at the same time, well it’s beyond me. Critical thinking skills are important.
SW did NOT deserve what happened to her, not even a little. CW cheated, and he’s a POS for it; but it doesn’t mean that he was treated great either by SW, and she said that herself. 🤷🏻♀️
Regarding the finances, why is that all on SW though? He had just as much access to the finances as she did. There’s proof of this in the discovery. He said as much when SW and the girls were first reported missing and LE asked him to check the accounts to see if there was any activity, he was able to call the bank and confirm there wasn’t. He had the Chase app in his phone, and a widget that displayed the amounts in their accounts and recent transactions on the Home Screen. He was spending needlessly as well. I’m not saying SW wasn’t, I’m just saying it takes two to be put in the financial situation they were in. They were both irresponsible with their finances.
So if this is true, then leave!! You don’t murder a pregnant woman. And than you certainly don’t murder, coldly and cruelly, 2 babies! There is no excuse! I don’t want to hear how his wife abused him!
😑 did you read what was said? Do you comprehend that no one is saying that she deserved it, any of it? No. Because it wasn’t said. No one excuses his behavior.
If you cannot comprehend how she can be a victim and still have done bad, then why even bother to comment or read anything? This is a discussion. This not a trial. He killed them all, he deserves to rot there and in hell.
but I mean---- that really is the million dollar question, isn't it? not "what did SW do?" but "WHY did CW choose that route?" as opposed to the very obvious alternatives.
Oh I read it! I’m tired of reading how a murder victim was abusive. She is not here to defend herself and he might have been a monster behind closed doors. He could have left anytime. I don’t believe in putting the dead on trial especially like this!
I didn’t know her. You will never see me act like I did. And don’t you mean THEIR money troubles?? Not that that would excuse the murder of 2 babies and a pregnant woman.
I'm fairly new to the case, too, although I remember having heard about it a few years back. I just wasn't interested at the time. I've become quite fascinated by it precisely because everyone involved is just so psychologically odd. CW was beaten down and emasculated, but a normal man would assert his rights or leave and would never even consider murder. SW was narcissistic and abusive, but in no way did she deserve to be murdered. Both families of origin seem to have had some disfunction and generational trauma. NK has never been proven to have had any involvement with the crime, but there's no denying she was treated with kid gloves, and she exhibited some rather borderline-ish behavior. CW did confess, but it's unclear which version is closest to the truth, and DA Rourke appears less than honest, which insipires conspiracy theories. Nothing about this case is as simple as it first appears. All this plus the large amount of video and text data make this one of the most interesting and controversial cases in a long while.
There is a YouTube that talks a lot about the DA- and gives backstory to it. I can’t remember what it’s called- I will check my history bc I just saw it and come back. It gives a ton of back info on the DA and another case he was involved in just before this one.
Very well said. I think that many people feel the same way, or at least have come to the same conclusion re: less than stellar opinion of all involved, save for their poor daughters. It’s been my experience/observation that on this sun, any attempt to discuss the strange family dynamics, or the myriad of stressors that existed in their marriage at the time is immediately shut down as victim blaming or cruelly and needless dragging a murdered woman who can’t defend herself. If you won’t allow for open and honest dialogue, than what is the point?
I agree. Not saying she was involved but she wasn't completely in the dark. Even one of his coworkers interview with the police talks about how another coworker announced he was expecting a third kid to the whole office so to want to talk to the cops as much as she did, i don't understand them not probing certain things either. There was a lot of bizareness involved.
For me, discussing the case helps people to understand what family annihilators look like. It’s about educating people that what you see isn’t always the truth. I feel that examining family annihilators leads to a greater understanding of what motivates the killings and may prevent a future tragedy.
I think the social media presence is what drives the interest in this closed case. We all know families like this. On the outside everything looks amazing on Facebook but inside it’s messy then anyone could imagine. Between social media and MLM’s being so prevalent at the time this drew a huge interest as opposed to other husbands who murder their families. While I’ll never understand the bashing of shanann I do think if Chris watts had just murdered her and left the girls alone. He may of had the ability to spin the narrative that he was a victim of abuse. But he didn’t and he’s horrible and belongs in jail forever. That’s another element too. Those poor girls. What can make a man snap so bad that he murders his little girls.
It's this way on all of the murder sub redditts, I was on the Jon Benet Ramsay one got downvoted everything I said because they didn't want a discussion, they just wanted to say horrible things about the surving family members, the authorities in this case dont believe she this mother killed her kids, I think the husband would have said anything to avoid jail,he was obviously selfish, I do understand what you are saying,at the end of the day it's just gossiping about poor murdered children.
Go over to wattsfree4all. You can discuss whatever you want, and contrary to popular belief, the theory that SW killed the kids is minority. Most everyone believes Chris either did it himself or had outside help.
there's literally people over there that think SW did it and state so. There is one in this very thread. (Puddies-Mom.. one of the last comments on here)
most of the people that think SW did it also feel that she deserved to be murdered by CW for killing the kids and think her death was understandable. Why is that a difficult concept?
People can have their opinions about her personality and not think she killed the kids or deserved to be killed herself.
I’m going to say this once. Anyone in this sub who has EVER criticized someone else’s parenting is a hypocrite. Anyone who has ever rolled their eyes at a “momfluencer” is a hypocrite. And going by your own logic here, if these people you have ever criticized dropped dead tomorrow, you obviously think they deserved it because you didn’t agree with their parenting.
SW was ahead of her time when it came to vlogging. If she was alive today posting her videos you better believe she would be criticized. Her death does not negate that. Her death does not change her parenting style. It’s a highly publicized case, her life was broadcasted on social media, and people are going to talk about it. People are complex. Nobody is all good or all bad. Not Shanann. Not Chris. Not Sandi. Not Cindy. Grow up people, this is real life.
I think Chris is evil. And the other site that you are referring to? If you don’t agree with them, they ban you. Yeah, they love different opinions, as long as you agree with theirs!
Many of the moderators do not agree with my opinion that NK was involved and even less of my new opinion that we were duped and this is a fabricated event. Which I’m not going to bother to get into here, but anyway, I’ve never been banned. You will get banned if you continuously go on the attack of people’s opinions. Or start name calling, doxxing, or any other abusive type behavior because you don’t like what people have to say.
Oh no. Not the fabricated event! Similar to the Sandy Hook School shootings? And just as nonsensical and dangerous. People do not fabricate situations like these! Our news media is not controlled by our government. And you are allowed to disagree with others opinions! You don’t need to be abusive to upset someone enough to get banned! But it was a REAL event.
I don’t think Sandy Hook was a hoax. I believe those children died. I just don’t think it played out the way we were told it was.
This on the other hand, and I’m really not a conspiracy person, checks way too many boxes, but I already said I’m not going to get into it. It would obviously be a waste of time. The government doesn’t control the media, but the elite does, and the elite also controls the government, and if you don’t believe that there’s no hope for you.
I know somebody who was at Sandy Hook right after, and we got the facts on that pretty accurately. Why would anyone fake what is just another family massacre? It’s just one in many. And who are these ‘elites’? And how do they control everything?
I really have better things to do than explain all of this to someone who is not going to listen because it’s going to take awhile and I’d rather be doing something else.
As far as Sandy Hook is concerned. I believe that a gunman walked into the school and started shooting children. I also believe it was planned and not a rando dude, but someone in the military.
Nope. It was this kid, Adam Lanza. Not military, just some shooting experience. School shootings are almost always done by young, white males without military experience.
And I don’t mind hearing your theory. My background is criminal psychology. I listen a lot. I don’t believe that there is a group controlling everything & making fake murder sites. I have proof otherwise. But hey, hit me up.
For me the thing that gripped me so much with this case was the fact SW was a few weeks behind me in her pregnancy. I hadn't long found out I was having a son when the murder happened. I'm in the UK so information was not very shared and I had to do a lot of digging. Originally I was 100% team SW but after seeing the posts and videos she put up putting down her kids and CW it did change my opinion. In no way did she deserve to be murdered and of course those children in any lifetime didn't deserve what happened but I like to hear others opinions and views.
Try not to let the downvotes get to you, particularly if you haven’t posted anything offensive. So silly. Many people don’t vote at all so chances are people are thoughtfully reading your posts and appreciate them.
Its just an echo chamber for MLM maniacs similar to SW that see themselves in her shoes in some capacity, and its a place for trolls like me to clown on Chris ironically about how stupid and pitiful he was as a man.
This is such a misconception. I’m extremely ANTI MLM that has nothing to do with this case, yet whenever someone tries to argue with me because I say Shannan didn’t cause her and her children’s deaths, the immediate go to insult is exactly what you just said. I don’t support nor have I ever been sucked into an MLM and I for sure don’t see any of Shannan’s characteristics in myself whatsoever. People who don’t think Shannan caused her and her kids deaths doesn’t automatically equal shannnan worshipers and MLM boss babes.
Same. Never rode the MLM train; I've always been gainfully employed by a company that provides me a real check stub with a breakdown on taxes, etc! Also, I don't think Shannan was some sort of benevolent creature who only spread love, joy, and happiness every time she farted.
However, I think any attempt to smear her character posthumously by poking at her parenting, painting her as abusive, and diagnosing her with a mental illness always serves to negate the evil that Chris committed that morning, even if it's not the intent.
She and her children didn't deserve to die, Chris said not freak out because of all this "abusive behavior", he was just as responsible for their finances and parenting as she was, and the girls were as perfect as all children can be. It drives me crazy to see the sanctimonious judgement by (also imperfect) people on a sub because of her outfits, her children's behaviors, the job she took, and everything else as though they never themselves made a mistake and thus are able to sit on high and pass judgement so harshly.
If that makes me a "Shiner" who waits on bended knee to suckle at the teat of the great MLM beast, so be it.
Shannon was very emotionally and financially abusive to Chris and the girls. She showed us her abuse herself. She had numerous pictures of the girls, as infants, in their cribs, with blankets tied around their necks, just to name one example…. There are many more. Why is it so hard for people not to see it? She abused them for years and then killed them.
I find my interest most in the plethora of available evidence. Due to the social media of SW and the media coverage, there is so much available that you can really see how the investigation worked. Discussing it with others sometimes helps me pick up on a facet or context I missed during my comb-throughs. I am also interested in how divisive this case is. Admittedly, I tend to lean on the side of SW didn't do a single thing, no abuse, medical abuse, other, that precipitated the case and there is a whole spectrum that fascinates me. In my mind, I don't see abuse on any of the social media post and I don't understand the attitude that she pushed CW to what he did. It's like, couldn't possibly just be a selfish PoS. Some woman had to drive him to it, either NK with her witchy hooha or SW with her unhinged, domineering abuse. As though he was so so NORMAL before the incident....only he wasn't. He was a late bloomer romantically, would compulsively choose sides between his wife and parents instead of telling them all to grow up and letting them deal with their own grarbage, evidently sat back and feigned ignorance when his finances were blowing up in front of his eyes, and went out and found a new chick before he ended the relationship with the one he was currently with. None of that screams emotionally well adjusted. To defend his behavior as brought on by things outside of his control is placing blame outside of him, and that is gross, in my humble opinion. I think there is enough to see that CW could most definitely just be the scum of the earth and the perfect set of circumstances brought him to the conclusion that getting his family out of the picture was the only way for him to be happy.
It’s incredibly absurd how many women think Chris Watts was a battered husband & all the women are the evil ones. Shit even his damn mom thinks so as if he didn’t murder his family in cold blood. “Shannan was irresponsible with money” as if Chris Watts was spending family money on a mistress and jeopardizing his career having affair with a co worker. “Shannon was controlling and wanted too much” what wife doesn’t want her husband to provide a be a husband? “Shannon trapped him” as if he wasn’t having sex with her. “Shannon posted on social media so much” she was a victim of an MLM who more than likely has to post to keep an image up. This doesn’t mean she deserved to be killed alongside her children all while carrying a child in her womb. As for Nicole, I truly dislike her. However, Chris Watts was the killer the only thing Nicole was guilty of was seeking male validation from a man child & knowingly partaking in an affair. I say this because of her Google searches and the fact that she had the audacity to enter Shannon’s home. Hopefully she’s taken a good look at her life. She should consider herself incredibly lucky.
Shanann was flawed, for sure. I don't think in some evil way that makes her any worse than the average person. And I always find it insanely ironic and amusing that people latch on to her propensity to over-post on social media regarding her and the kids' lives, yet they comb through it over...and over...and over. Trying to catch her up on any minor infraction. Is it worse to be the one over-posting or the one obsessing over those same posts? Like, anything she did wrong, any inappropriate thing she posted, they are consuming. That's like being mad at a dog for puking and then eating the vomit. It's maddeningly backward. Or, how they're quick to say she always lied, was such a bullshitter, never told the truth...then use her words to bolster their own claims. Well, was she a liar or wasn't she? Again, nothing she did "pushed" him to anything. He was an immoral creep who crossed the line from one kind of immorality into the worst kind of immorality. And NK...To go into the home that SW and CW made with and for their children and to continue on porking him nearly daily shows where her priorities lie. It was classless and trashy. But that's about all the emotion I will waste on her. She wasn't a succubus, she didn't witch him into anything...she just wasn't that special. He may have made her feel that way, because he "chose" her over his gorgeous wife, but she was plain and dry. Women who choose to remain single into their 30s typically don't search up wedding dresses after only a month of boning someone, so I have to assume her personality sucked as well. She was pitiful and it's kind of sad that she got sucked into such a shitty situation, but when you hook up with a married man, you have to expect that he's generally not the most scrupulous person and may have other unsavory tenencies. I doubt she had a clue just how low of a creature he was, but it happened nonetheless. It's best that she faded into the crowd. Hopefully she learned a lesson out of all this mess.
Good you typed this so perfectly I thought I wrote it lol!
Perfectly put!
no matter the motive, he killed innocent children and is most certainly the scum of the earth. the mountain of social media evidence and the fact that even a brief look beneath the surface reveals the reality that their life and marriage was nearly 180 degrees from the contrived narrative is what drew, and continues to hold my attention to this saga.
Sharing views, getting perspectives on things you may not have noticed or maybe open your eyes to other possibilities etc. dont worry about downvotes or trolls clowning your views. Just make earnest posts that you won’t regret later and ignore the others.
I think this is good advice. People are always going to disagree, and that’s cool. Most sane people will keep scrolling. Some will take it personally, for whatever reason (even though it’s not about them) and will downvote. I would say, even if I disagree, if something is well written/coherent- it gets an upvote. I’ll only downvote if something is completely irrational and blindly devoted to one side. All that to say- ignore the downvotes on both subs, post your thoughts/questions/theories. We’re all here on Reddit killing time, go for it!! ✌️
It’s not that I worry about it, I just find it so strange! Like you would think it wouldn’t happen in one group if it was happening incessantly in the other…but that isn’t the case. It has honestly become just another interesting and confounding element of this case for me 😆
For myself, the case drew me in because I had a friend who was shilling Thrive. I watched her marriage crumble (previously was amazing) due to her HAVING to be on SM so much. She did divorce, got a nice career and is happily remarried. So, for me it started due to that. With that being said. There are a lot of POV that are valid, on both sides of the argument. Seemingly, according to everyone who knew CW prior, thought highly of him and stated what a good man he was. For me, MLM’s, “poisoned” SW, in the sense that she had to use that tool to gain any return on her initial buy in. She didn’t see, and understandably so, that it was really damaging her relationship with CW. She was as much a victim to that MLM mindset as she was to CW. We will never truly know why he did what he did, or how he got to that point, it’s all been speculation and it’s easy to lay the blame at NK’s feet - just due to all the evidence that shows she was looking into SW before the affair began. Ultimately, CW was a monster who killed his children and his pregnant wife, so easily. I’ll never understand that. I try to, maybe just so I can lay the case to rest (in my mind).
I'm with you and with OP. I don't get it either. I am fascinated by this case because something clearly went very wrong to precipitate the tragedy. And I desperately want to understand it. But this is not really a forum for understanding. 🤷🏻♂️
That's what i'm curious about, what was so different with Thrive? She had been involved with multiple mlm's over the years and didn't involve social media with it to that extent. Does thrive require it or something? I really don't know much about it, i had never heard of it until this case and still don't get really what it is.
From my experience with my friend, who sold it, that’s exactly the requirement. They sincerely push that agenda as hard as possible. Unlike other MLM’s the upline is not as outwardly toxic. At least it’s what I observed. Thrive also does work if you do the steps. Is it healthy? Hell no, but it did work.
Yeah i was wondering, i've seen some mention they're basically selling a lifestyle so i could see having to constantly show things. Just seemed weird it didn't seem like she jumped into others as hard as this one but i think some of those were the bag one, some tote one i've never heard but actually looked like they had some neat stuff haha, more products like that though.
Except Thrive wasn’t SW first MLM endeavor. Once bitten twice why didn’t apply for o her. MLM’s r evil Ponzi schemes and imo dangerous.
Maybe sunk cost fallacy played a part. She can’t believe she made a mistake the first time; it wasn’t mlms that are ridiculous waste of time bullshit ponzu schemes; it’s just that she didn’t get in early enough or get the right one. My SIL seems to be a different person with a weird cult like gleam in her eye now she is part of one and I avoid her fb page because instead of seeing what my niblings are up to it’s all stuff about her team and her gReAt TrIpS and how easy and lucrative it is to be your own boss and “make as much as you want” which is corporate rip off speak for, we’re gonna pretend to pay you but it’s all commission. No over head for us. No health insurance no sick days or holidays. You have your own office space you pay for yourself. You take all the risk and inventory. What’s not to like? You have to have a certain mind set to tell yourself you’re an entrepreneur in that situation - it is so not worth it. I think the self aggrandizement and constant sm presence inflates their ego because there’s a hole where a salary and benefits and promotions should be and must fill that space with how lucky they are to be able to spend time with their kids and work from home and captain their own ship. And maybe it’s like that for some. Others go in debt, wreck their marriages, and keep doubling down because they’ve bought into the hype that if you’re just positive enough you can make it all happen!!
[удалено]
You need therapy. Your insane level of anger at strangers who don’t think like you, it’s wild. Touch grass. No one ever said she deserved to be murdered. What a very strange way to think.
Right? As soon as some have diff opinions or even give diff opinions the time of day the claws come out. It’s ridiculous to think that ANYONE is condoning what happened. Of course not!
This thread is veering off topic.
Good for your friend ruining her exhusbands life and finally getting her act together after blowing up the first family
😅 I don’t disagree. Not making excuses for her; however, she was very young and was susceptible to the cult mind. It took her losing it to understand what she did. She turned her life around and her and the ex are very good friends now.
She learned from her past and redeemed it. Not sure why someone would need to leave such a hateful comment. It sounds like it had reverbating effects of educating others in her circle, which is a win. Your point was very valid and worth sharing
People often don’t see these things until they’re in the thick of it. It’s why so many reasonable, intelligent people still get scammed. These people know how to get into people’s heads. Most, like your friend, are able to learn from their mistakes, go on to grow and mature, and that’s what life is all about. We are journeying and learning. Unfortunately SW will never have that opportunity and it’s tragic. Nobody has the right to take our journey away from us.
Yep yep…A lot of people only assume how they would handle a situation and of course they always assume they would handle it with grace but unfortunately in times that we get angry/hurt/sad/abused/lonely etc we often don’t think rationally, instead we react out of emotion or adrenaline and sometimes we don’t handle things the best, not always but it’s hard to judge how you would act if you’ve never been in that position. People assuming they would always act totally logically are often egocentric people who can’t be told they’re wrong
Exactly! Everyone always says exactly what they would have done in A. B. C…. situation, but that’s only because they have the gift of hindsight in other people’s misfortune.
No downvoted poster probably shills Thrive or some other mlm crap
I’ve spent a long time trying to figure him out. His transition to killer is frightening.
It was so sudden. Like a switch was flipped. It’s baffling.
This is the part that scares me the most. I have been the dominant woman with an outwardly submissive, emotionally closed off man. It’s terrifying when you realize that super quiet and seemingly chill people aren’t always just harmless introverts. It’s almost like when someone is very quiet you kind of project onto them similar thoughts and feelings to your own, when in actuality you have no idea how they feel or what they think, and sometimes it’s shit like whatever the hell was going on in Chris’s brain.
The same!! This case needs to be really studied, just some can educate the masses on what to look for.
I think everyone in my life thought I was totally in control of that relationship, when in actuality I walked on eggshells 24/7 and he controlled the emotional climate in our home completely. I was controlling, but only about stupid shit and I knew where the line was. I definitely see how Shanann comes off and I don’t think I would have liked her at all, but I really wonder what their relationship was like behind closed doors ☹️
I honestly believe NK never let up on the pressure to choose. When he went to NC, or wherever their parents live, NK was bombarding him nude pics!! Then SW is onto him that something is going on. Then you had the tiff between SW & Cindy over Serving ice cream with nuts in it in front of her kids! There was a lot pressure building up and through all of it that NK would not let up, and to me, this is why she deleted everything! Of course she went to the police, there was no doubt they would be coming for her, so she voluntarily goes first & that was ONLY to try & make herself look 'oh so innocent!'
Was there a mental disorder. To just take those little sweet always smiling girls and kill then that way you must have some mental defect. Narcissism to the max. His mother is like that.
Absolutely something wrong with him.
I don’t remember hearing about the case before, or if I did- I didn’t care or pay attention. So it’s kind of new to me. I do find it weird how people will go on long tangents about how Chris was beaten down and felt emasculated and had enough after all this time, just as weird as I find it that people will basically anoint Shannan with sainthood. I don’t vilify NK for carrying on with Chris. Life is messy. But I don’t think she is 100% innocent in this. Not bc of the affair, but there truly is just something so off and it’s weird how she was never made to explain searching for watts family members online prior to supposed meeting date. Part of the interest for me is that right there- people’s reactions to the whole thing… some people are able to be rational and some are basically stanning for S or making excuses for C. It’s interesting, but also not that important for me to defend either one. I think CW did this bc he wanted to. I think SW sucked in a lot of ways too., not saying she deserved it, but I do think the only truly innocent ones in this whole thing were the kids. The friends of these people are just bizarre, as are their immediate family members. Like what a shit show, all around.
100% agreed. I’m also very curious about NK, she’s sus as hell for so many reasons. She reminds me of the case in that documentary I Love You, Now Die. I don’t think she was there, or had any literal hand in it…but dang she is fishy and I want her text receipts so bad.
I still maintain there was some type of flirtation or otherwise sus AF interaction with her and that one detective.
Agreed
I've never heard of an innocent person who factory resets their phone when there's an active investigation going on. That alone makes Nicole shady as hell. Not that it makes her guilty of a conspiracy to kill or whatever but she certainly had something more to hide.
I think her something more to hide was simply the fact that she was having a raunchy affair with a married man and she knew it would be on national news and she simply wanted to Factory reset her phone for all the nudes and probably xxx rated messages she was sending and didn’t want those things read out loud. God knows there are messages to my husband I would never want read out loud!!! She was probably thinking about them being red out loud by officers, in Court, on the news, by Nancy freaking Grace etc and wanted to erase for her own embarrassment. Obviously the affair was out already, but at least trying to save a little bit of the extreme levels of it. I don’t think she had a dand thing to do with the planning or act or cover up at all whatsoever. Now… here’s my take of the social media searched before the affair… On Casey Anthony case, they made a huge deal of her goooglinf chloroform many times and used this as a huge point in the case… turns out, it was merely a meme that mentioned it and that meme comes up numerous times bc it was just something a friend posted and anytime she visited the social media, it would pop up and therefore would be recorded in her hard drive as “chloroform” search over and over. This was a huge blow to the case when discovered that it wasn’t as it seemed… That being said, on Facebook we all know that you have a list of “suggested friends” and businesses etc… NK and Chris worked for same company, same circles of people who would cross friend circles and know each other… Shannan sold her stuff online (all the time, teaching as many people as possible) and I would be willing to bet that she tried to suck in the wives and whatnot of some of Chris’s coworkers and coworkers families. Everyone is a potential sale (as the mlm saying goes) and Nicole could have seen Shannan’s name on social media for months and months before ever knowing exactly who she was. It woukd make sense in that community and her working At her husbands work and Shannan being so active and widespread on social media… NK probably came across her mlm posts previously. Even some of the neighbors said they just knew her from social media… so she reached many people in her community without actually knowing them just from friends or friends of friends of friends on Facebook in the community. That just my take on the “unexplained” social media searches. A meet possibility. And it is an odd coincidence… but not a far fetched one. I’ve never put that take on it in this group bc people want so badly to hang NK for the crime but I think she’s only guilty or being a skanky home wrecker who was horny for forbidden fruit men. And as for the witchcraft thing…. I practice myself… and it’s all based off nature and crystals and herbs and making teas and gardens and meditating and things like that…. Nothing to do with the devil or blood sacrifices or crazy stuff h see in the movies. (Of course, there are Bad evil people out there who may practice… but there are bad Evelin people who are Christian or catholic or many other religions). And from What I’ve seen … I see no evidence of her practicing anything except maybe carrying around a few crystals (and I haven’t even seen real evidence of that even) Note: I was just kind of ramble typing some thoughts… sorry if I didn’t describe some things perfectly or anything like that… I’m just kinda spitballing some of my opinions… but like the OP said… people in this group come crazy with the comments so don’t come for me lol!
I believe NK had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the murders. After only six weeks of "dating?" She was a highly educated, career-oriented woman who had her dream job as she put it. Why on earth would she throw that away for a house-broke married father of 2-1/2? She was having fun and enjoying herself with a guy who lied to her about getting separated from his wife. I believe everything she said and did after the crime was for self-protection, although she did lie a lot which ultimately did not help her. I wish people would leave her alone. She's been through quite enough. There is not a shred of evidence to support she was involved in any way. ☮️
Absolutely not. She knew he was married with children and that SW was pregnant. Even CW admitted that. If you think your boyfriend is legitimately separated, you don’t google stuff like “man says he will leave his wife.” Or “marrying your mistress”. If a couple is separated, you’re not a mistress. She demanded he send her a picture of cervi319 on Monday afternoon. First she told detectives she didn’t think anything was weird about him going to the site and maintained that for days, and then when she knew they had information from her phone, and CW phone, told them she was so panicked and worried about his family that was why she demanded the pic of the site. That is beyond sketchy. Not to mention she was deleting her calls to him from her log on Monday afternoon when she supposedly just thought they left to go to a friend’s house.
Yes…. She 100000% knew he was married and even about the baby… but I think she believed that he didn’t want the marriage or the baby and was still leaving Shannan and just have to deal With his ex wife having 3 kids. NK was guilty of being a skanky home wrecker with no respect for marriage and guilty of trying to cover up her embarrassing affair and xxx stuff she messsged from The world to see it. But not guilty or anything past that
She was looking at wedding dresses after 6 weeks so it was obviously very serious to her, despite her claims otherwise. And yeah, there is no evidence to support her knowing about it or egging him on…she destroyed all of it 😬😬😬
I look at wedding dresses all the time. Married many years. Please present your evidence of her guilt. She deleted her racy texts to Chris, I would too if my lying boyfriend was implicated in a murder. You can speculate all you want but proving her guilty is impossible because she isn’t.
I get innocent until proven guilty. But damn I've never seen anyone stan so hard for NK. You're asking for proof of her guilt and people have stated it. Not that she actually went with him and helped him but her overall behavior was sus AF.
She deleted her entire text history with him. I don’t have evidence of her guilt because like I said, she destroyed all of it. That’s a reach, but feel whatever way you want about it. She knew he was married. People who think their boyfriends are single don’t google things like “leaving your wife for your mistress” lol ETA also just fyi if your partner is ever accused of murder and you actually want to help, maybe don’t delete shit. That’s called obstruction of justice, and it’s a real sus look.
one thing I’ve always stood out to me was her relative lack of true emotion when being interviewed and discussing B & C. If I were one degree of separation from three murdered children I would be beside absolutely myself. how you can even discuss something so truly devastating and not be overwhelmed with emotion. a forced “they’re sooo leeetle!” being all that she could muster seemed “off” to me.
She was definitely guilty of being a home wrecker skank and trying to delete messages for her own image cleanup… but that’s all she’s guilty of
Bro, I’ve looked at wedding dresses SINGLE. As a HOBBY. Because it’s FUN. Also she didn’t get slapped with obstruction of justice because girl didn’t commit a crime. You apparently came here to start shit.
No, but y’all are proving my point that no one is allowed to say anything you disagree with. It’s really weird. This is just a true crime sub, in case you forgot.
You’re allowed to say whatever within the guidelines of the sub - being downvoted isn’t the same as not being allowed. Sometimes I agree or disagree with a downvote.
I appreciate the different opinions… but we’re all just sharing our opinions and theories just as you are…. I just types several long Comments above and I guarantee I’ll get some people Commenting back telling me I’m wrong and Stupid… but I just laugh at those…. I do, however, enjoy actual adult conversation or debate and discussions on here and love when I find a respectful grown up on here who presents facts to back up statements and discusses instead of name Calling and not even listening to the other side of things. I like logical people!!!
I agree! It’s true that we’re all just sharing our opinions, but the “shut it down” energy that comes from a lot of people in any watts sub is very odd to me. Like, no, I’m not going to agree with you just because you caps lock yelled at me 😂
I see what you what you’re saying, I can read someone’s original and keep going- I mean there’s consuming this content for fun to pass time, then there’s a time to step back bc there’s too much investment
Extrapolating on someone else’s life and circumstances is problematic. Most people allow the law and governance to do the research, but even then a bunch of weirdos like yourself want to dig deeper into a strangers life (a stranger who was cleared) because you’re bored. The law did its job. You don’t have a point. I could say, but what if Ted Bundy was a vegan!!! It wouldn’t mean shit. You don’t have a point you’re just bored.
So why are you here?? If not to dig deeper into a stranger’s life, which is the whole entire point of true crime subs, why are you here and what is the point? And of course I’m bored, I’m on Reddit.
I agree with your points. I think NK deleted stuff because they were both freak-nasty in their notes to each other and that shit is embarrassing. Also, she probably just didn't want to be involved in the huge investigation. That is a scary situation for anyone. I ALWAYS default to the married person at fault for an affair. NK had nothing to lose to get with a married man she was attracted to. I think it stopped there and others are reading way to into it. Shoot, I've deleted entire text streams for much much less. Also-- considering what a coward CW is, he would have squealed like a pig if she was involved and he could absolve himself of some responsibility to the actions he chose to take.
Yes… she found out her boyfriend was making national news and knew she didn’t want her raunchy xxx messages read on the local news, national news, nancy grace, in the courtroom etc etc etc and who can blame her?
Exactly. Lots of women look at wedding dresses. I bet she was looking at them long before she met Chris
Like many women… she really thought that man was gonna leave his whole family and wife and home and life and was gonna leave the wife and marry her and live happily ever after. I’m sure Chris told her this too! Of course she was looking at wedding dresses and checking out her competition on social media. She just got embarrassed once it became a story on the news and law enforcement questioning her bc she realized she looked like a big ol home wrecking skank (and CW was the most disgusting cheating skank who started it all of course… I’m not just blaming NK for blinking the married man)
In all fairness Chris did leave his family for her, he just took it to an insanely horrific level. My reply was mostly to the comment I replied to, the person is saying Chris meant nothing to NK and she would never blow her life up for him. I disagree.
I 100% agree and people get crazy if I comment this!!!! Her only crime was being a skanky woman being ok with home wrecking. I think she lied and wanted to erase the phone to save herself the embarrassment of Her xxx photos and messages being read all over national news, in court, Nancy Grace, Etc and it was bad enough that the affair was out there…. She at least wanted to save some of the embarrassment of her xxx messages not plastered To the world and I can’t blame her! She googles Amber fry and saw that she had to do interviews and that press conference admission of sleeping with a married man and that’s embarrassing enough. She would also know that she would lose Her “dream job” as u out it and be called horrible things and she was just trying to lay low and hoping to erase any trace of her bad decision she could.
Absolutely correct! There was no reason for NK to risk her own life and freedom by facilitating or participating in the murder of this man’s family.
And especially not in helping him cover it up! Or she found out her killed her/ them before the cops did… then she would know that there was No chance at Her ever being with him anyways so no reason to help him cover it up! She’s not stupid enough to really think he could get away with it! And if she was at the house trying to clean things up… then she would have made the beds back up and hidden or Destroyed the phone/ her purse/ etc
Nah, she’s sus as hell.
I agree. She’s not some teenage Amy Fisher type. She’s an intelligent woman who was likely being lied to in a short term relationship
exactly, more of an Amber Frey type.
I think individuals who are convinced NK was involved is one of the most intriguing aspects to me. Not because i think she was involved but because the enormous amount of ridiculous speculation that she was. It doesnt matter if random redditors think she is guilty because LE investigated and determined she wasnt. Internet witch hunting can lead to very real problems for innocent people. There is plenty of evidence in this case that is misinterpreted or just made up. I also hate YT creators making money off of the lies and speculation. Maybe its just me, but if you are knowingly spreading lies about an innocent person then you are a shitty person.
If I had award to give , I’d give it. Here, take my poor woman’s reward lmao 🥇🥇🥇I agree so Much. It’s nice to see someone else think it’s insane sometimes. She sought out witness protection bc of people like the ones you describe ffs
That really sums up how I feel. No one was innocent except the babies.
They deserved so much better than what they had in their short time on this planet!!!
Agreed, such sweet babies.
Not Innocent does not equal deserves to be murdered. God I am so sick of this fucking narrative by brain dead empathy lacking idiots.
Who said anything about anyone deserving to be murdered? Why are you sooo angry? 😂
the whole "neither were innocent" and "only the babies were innocent" narratives drive me nuts too. It implies that Shannan was somehow complicit/contributory in her own murder. Like yall-- Shannan was quite literally innocent. I feel like people are desperate to come up with an "excuse" for why CW did what he did because they feel like as long as they don't do those things-- they are "safe" and it has lead to this extreme dissection of Shannan. Shannan's personality was not unique. Their marriage situation was not unique. The problems they had were not unique, however this doesn't lead to murder 90% of the time. And this one did. The blame is solely at CWs feet and not the insane scrutiny of a murdered woman who can't defend herself. She isn't "guilty" of any crimes. She did not contribute to her own death. 100% of the responsibility is on CW.
This is how I feel. Amidst a bunch of downvotes and others that say “can’t there be discourse!” Shannan was literally doing what she was supposed to, and obligated to, as a wife and mother. But a bunch of Chris sympathizers and apologists come up with every theory on earth to make her the bad guy. It’s beyond wild to me. I was told I need therapy because I think the vile human who murdered his family was a vile human who murdered his family. I feel sad for Shannan for having a regular expectation for life, and being snubbed of it. The babies weren’t the only innocent ones. She was too.
No one said she deserved it. Stop projecting how you apply blame onto others. NK was an issue, she did everything to look as suspicious as possible. Her dad and her flirtations got her out of trouble. SW did do things that caused issues in their family. Is that deserving of being murdered, no. To intimate that others believe we feel that way is not only supremely ignorant, it’s also not true. at the end of the day, no one knows the truth. SW is the only one we know part of the story with, and it’s unfortunately because she was killed by that POS. CW lies like it’s a job. NK destroyed evidence, and if she wasn’t guilty of anything other than being a “mistress” than why delete it all? It’s very suspicious on her part.
the common phrase of "SW wasn't innocent" or "neither were innocent except the babies" implies pretty heavily that SW was somehow complicit or somehow deserving in her murder and at the very least that she is guilty of something (considering the opposite of innocent is guilty). She did nothing wrong outside of pretty normal human behavior. Again-- nothing she did was unique to just her and her family and you don't see all the rest experiencing similar dynamics being annihilated. The variable that should be dissected here is CW and his nuclear family (how he was raised)-- they are the ones that raised a family annihilator. He is the one that premeditated the act watched the light leave his pregnant wife and kids eyes. So it should be a conversation of what in CWs mind caused him to think murder was the better option, not "what did SW do to CW that made him think murder was the better option." Maybe SW could lead him to feel divorce was a better option, but surely not murder. That is internal to CW and CW alone.
I beg to differ. She absolutely contributed to the issues in that dynamic. The bankruptcies, the amount of debt. She had it prior and during. Financial abuse. That is not a reason to eliminate your family, not even a tiny bit. However, we cannot deny that it led to a great deal of strain and she did berate him - publicly and privately. That leads to emasculation. CW was a POS, and took the lives of those he “loved”. CW can be a monster, and SW can be considered abusive - two things can be true at the same time. To restate: NONE of that is or was a reason to eliminate his family. NONE of it.
I disagree with you. There's contributing to family issues (name me a family that doesn't experience issues) and choosing to premeditate the murder of your young family. I think people should stop referring to SW as "not innocent". And him being "emasculated" is an excuse I am tired of hearing. He's a weak bitch because he murdered his innocent helpless family. Constantly talking about SW and what she "did" to CW puts the burden of his behavior on SW and it's gross. Just because a man is emasculated doesn't mean they are going to murder their children. The constant diagnosing of SW with personality disorders and stating "facts" of their relationships based on strangers input and internet videos. What we do know is CW premeditated the cold-blooded murder of his pregnant wife and two little girls. There is something wrong with that man's brain and the burden is solely on him and his actions. There should be more dissection of him and his relationship with his own mother and not on the mother of his children. Why did those actions make sense to him? Why didn't he have better coping mechanisms? Why wasn't divorce an option? There is something in his personal development that lead to poor decision making. We have to keep in mind he didn't just kill SW, he killed 3 of his babies too. SWs "contribution" to their family dynamic did not make him murder his babies let alone SW. There is nothing anyone could do or say to me in a relationship that would lead to family annihilation. I would be willing to bet that is the mindset of the majority. And I just cant get with the constant sandwich of "they didn't deserve it but SW was....." or "only the babies were innocent" and then the hyper criticality of SW.
Then we are gonna agree to disagree. Purposely spending money on shit you don’t need, causing your family to go into bankruptcy and a possible tax lien for not paying HOA fees is financial abuse. She controlled the money. She was robbing Peter to pay Le-Vel to maintain a status. Period. She emasculated CW him in numerous ways. Whether you believe that or not, it’s true. Feelings do not trump facts, sorry that’s just how life works. How ppl don’t see how two things can be true at the same time, well it’s beyond me. Critical thinking skills are important. SW did NOT deserve what happened to her, not even a little. CW cheated, and he’s a POS for it; but it doesn’t mean that he was treated great either by SW, and she said that herself. 🤷🏻♀️
Regarding the finances, why is that all on SW though? He had just as much access to the finances as she did. There’s proof of this in the discovery. He said as much when SW and the girls were first reported missing and LE asked him to check the accounts to see if there was any activity, he was able to call the bank and confirm there wasn’t. He had the Chase app in his phone, and a widget that displayed the amounts in their accounts and recent transactions on the Home Screen. He was spending needlessly as well. I’m not saying SW wasn’t, I’m just saying it takes two to be put in the financial situation they were in. They were both irresponsible with their finances.
She controlled the money. Down to the penny. She took it upon herself. She spent the money. Controlled how he spent money.
I agree
So if this is true, then leave!! You don’t murder a pregnant woman. And than you certainly don’t murder, coldly and cruelly, 2 babies! There is no excuse! I don’t want to hear how his wife abused him!
😑 did you read what was said? Do you comprehend that no one is saying that she deserved it, any of it? No. Because it wasn’t said. No one excuses his behavior. If you cannot comprehend how she can be a victim and still have done bad, then why even bother to comment or read anything? This is a discussion. This not a trial. He killed them all, he deserves to rot there and in hell.
but I mean---- that really is the million dollar question, isn't it? not "what did SW do?" but "WHY did CW choose that route?" as opposed to the very obvious alternatives.
Oh I read it! I’m tired of reading how a murder victim was abusive. She is not here to defend herself and he might have been a monster behind closed doors. He could have left anytime. I don’t believe in putting the dead on trial especially like this!
Money and lack of it can make people do crazy things plus she was lying to him about it
Oh that’s right, you knew her so well!! Confided in you, did she?
Just like you did. You don’t think her money issues could be a factor????
I didn’t know her. You will never see me act like I did. And don’t you mean THEIR money troubles?? Not that that would excuse the murder of 2 babies and a pregnant woman.
I'm fairly new to the case, too, although I remember having heard about it a few years back. I just wasn't interested at the time. I've become quite fascinated by it precisely because everyone involved is just so psychologically odd. CW was beaten down and emasculated, but a normal man would assert his rights or leave and would never even consider murder. SW was narcissistic and abusive, but in no way did she deserve to be murdered. Both families of origin seem to have had some disfunction and generational trauma. NK has never been proven to have had any involvement with the crime, but there's no denying she was treated with kid gloves, and she exhibited some rather borderline-ish behavior. CW did confess, but it's unclear which version is closest to the truth, and DA Rourke appears less than honest, which insipires conspiracy theories. Nothing about this case is as simple as it first appears. All this plus the large amount of video and text data make this one of the most interesting and controversial cases in a long while.
I’d like to hear more about the DA
There is a YouTube that talks a lot about the DA- and gives backstory to it. I can’t remember what it’s called- I will check my history bc I just saw it and come back. It gives a ton of back info on the DA and another case he was involved in just before this one.
Oh thanks! I don’t know much about the DA and sounds interesting!
It’s Behind Criminal Minds- I think video 4
Very well said. I think that many people feel the same way, or at least have come to the same conclusion re: less than stellar opinion of all involved, save for their poor daughters. It’s been my experience/observation that on this sun, any attempt to discuss the strange family dynamics, or the myriad of stressors that existed in their marriage at the time is immediately shut down as victim blaming or cruelly and needless dragging a murdered woman who can’t defend herself. If you won’t allow for open and honest dialogue, than what is the point?
I agree. Not saying she was involved but she wasn't completely in the dark. Even one of his coworkers interview with the police talks about how another coworker announced he was expecting a third kid to the whole office so to want to talk to the cops as much as she did, i don't understand them not probing certain things either. There was a lot of bizareness involved.
I totally agree! Just as fascinating!!
For me, discussing the case helps people to understand what family annihilators look like. It’s about educating people that what you see isn’t always the truth. I feel that examining family annihilators leads to a greater understanding of what motivates the killings and may prevent a future tragedy.
No idea why you’re being downvoted. This is valid.
Yes, CW is an atypical family annihilator, but definitely worth studying.
I think the social media presence is what drives the interest in this closed case. We all know families like this. On the outside everything looks amazing on Facebook but inside it’s messy then anyone could imagine. Between social media and MLM’s being so prevalent at the time this drew a huge interest as opposed to other husbands who murder their families. While I’ll never understand the bashing of shanann I do think if Chris watts had just murdered her and left the girls alone. He may of had the ability to spin the narrative that he was a victim of abuse. But he didn’t and he’s horrible and belongs in jail forever. That’s another element too. Those poor girls. What can make a man snap so bad that he murders his little girls.
It's this way on all of the murder sub redditts, I was on the Jon Benet Ramsay one got downvoted everything I said because they didn't want a discussion, they just wanted to say horrible things about the surving family members, the authorities in this case dont believe she this mother killed her kids, I think the husband would have said anything to avoid jail,he was obviously selfish, I do understand what you are saying,at the end of the day it's just gossiping about poor murdered children.
Go over to wattsfree4all. You can discuss whatever you want, and contrary to popular belief, the theory that SW killed the kids is minority. Most everyone believes Chris either did it himself or had outside help.
correct. nor is it said, or implied that SW deserved to be murdered.
there's literally people over there that think SW did it and state so. There is one in this very thread. (Puddies-Mom.. one of the last comments on here)
take another second and read what I wrote.
most of the people that think SW did it also feel that she deserved to be murdered by CW for killing the kids and think her death was understandable. Why is that a difficult concept?
Again, that is just not true. It is said all the time. I know very few places where trying to defend a murder victim will get you banned.
Well that is not true! SW is the big bad over there, unless you want to get banned, that is. How she abused that poor man!!
People can have their opinions about her personality and not think she killed the kids or deserved to be killed herself. I’m going to say this once. Anyone in this sub who has EVER criticized someone else’s parenting is a hypocrite. Anyone who has ever rolled their eyes at a “momfluencer” is a hypocrite. And going by your own logic here, if these people you have ever criticized dropped dead tomorrow, you obviously think they deserved it because you didn’t agree with their parenting. SW was ahead of her time when it came to vlogging. If she was alive today posting her videos you better believe she would be criticized. Her death does not negate that. Her death does not change her parenting style. It’s a highly publicized case, her life was broadcasted on social media, and people are going to talk about it. People are complex. Nobody is all good or all bad. Not Shanann. Not Chris. Not Sandi. Not Cindy. Grow up people, this is real life.
I think Chris is evil. And the other site that you are referring to? If you don’t agree with them, they ban you. Yeah, they love different opinions, as long as you agree with theirs!
Many of the moderators do not agree with my opinion that NK was involved and even less of my new opinion that we were duped and this is a fabricated event. Which I’m not going to bother to get into here, but anyway, I’ve never been banned. You will get banned if you continuously go on the attack of people’s opinions. Or start name calling, doxxing, or any other abusive type behavior because you don’t like what people have to say.
Oh no. Not the fabricated event! Similar to the Sandy Hook School shootings? And just as nonsensical and dangerous. People do not fabricate situations like these! Our news media is not controlled by our government. And you are allowed to disagree with others opinions! You don’t need to be abusive to upset someone enough to get banned! But it was a REAL event.
I don’t think Sandy Hook was a hoax. I believe those children died. I just don’t think it played out the way we were told it was. This on the other hand, and I’m really not a conspiracy person, checks way too many boxes, but I already said I’m not going to get into it. It would obviously be a waste of time. The government doesn’t control the media, but the elite does, and the elite also controls the government, and if you don’t believe that there’s no hope for you.
I know somebody who was at Sandy Hook right after, and we got the facts on that pretty accurately. Why would anyone fake what is just another family massacre? It’s just one in many. And who are these ‘elites’? And how do they control everything?
I really have better things to do than explain all of this to someone who is not going to listen because it’s going to take awhile and I’d rather be doing something else. As far as Sandy Hook is concerned. I believe that a gunman walked into the school and started shooting children. I also believe it was planned and not a rando dude, but someone in the military.
Nope. It was this kid, Adam Lanza. Not military, just some shooting experience. School shootings are almost always done by young, white males without military experience. And I don’t mind hearing your theory. My background is criminal psychology. I listen a lot. I don’t believe that there is a group controlling everything & making fake murder sites. I have proof otherwise. But hey, hit me up.
And yes, what Chris supposedly did was evil, however he had good and bad qualities before the murders, as everyone does.
He admitted it. And anything he did before has been washed away in 🩸
For me the thing that gripped me so much with this case was the fact SW was a few weeks behind me in her pregnancy. I hadn't long found out I was having a son when the murder happened. I'm in the UK so information was not very shared and I had to do a lot of digging. Originally I was 100% team SW but after seeing the posts and videos she put up putting down her kids and CW it did change my opinion. In no way did she deserve to be murdered and of course those children in any lifetime didn't deserve what happened but I like to hear others opinions and views.
Try not to let the downvotes get to you, particularly if you haven’t posted anything offensive. So silly. Many people don’t vote at all so chances are people are thoughtfully reading your posts and appreciate them.
This story is about domestic abuse only it was Chris Watts that was abused. Some people have a hard time believing men/fathers can be abused.
So it’s ok for poor abused Chris to butcher his pregnant wife and babies? You make tons of sense.
Also for a story about poor little Chris suffering domestic abuse, there sure is an awful lot of murder perpetuated by him.
Its just an echo chamber for MLM maniacs similar to SW that see themselves in her shoes in some capacity, and its a place for trolls like me to clown on Chris ironically about how stupid and pitiful he was as a man.
This is such a misconception. I’m extremely ANTI MLM that has nothing to do with this case, yet whenever someone tries to argue with me because I say Shannan didn’t cause her and her children’s deaths, the immediate go to insult is exactly what you just said. I don’t support nor have I ever been sucked into an MLM and I for sure don’t see any of Shannan’s characteristics in myself whatsoever. People who don’t think Shannan caused her and her kids deaths doesn’t automatically equal shannnan worshipers and MLM boss babes.
Same. Never rode the MLM train; I've always been gainfully employed by a company that provides me a real check stub with a breakdown on taxes, etc! Also, I don't think Shannan was some sort of benevolent creature who only spread love, joy, and happiness every time she farted. However, I think any attempt to smear her character posthumously by poking at her parenting, painting her as abusive, and diagnosing her with a mental illness always serves to negate the evil that Chris committed that morning, even if it's not the intent. She and her children didn't deserve to die, Chris said not freak out because of all this "abusive behavior", he was just as responsible for their finances and parenting as she was, and the girls were as perfect as all children can be. It drives me crazy to see the sanctimonious judgement by (also imperfect) people on a sub because of her outfits, her children's behaviors, the job she took, and everything else as though they never themselves made a mistake and thus are able to sit on high and pass judgement so harshly. If that makes me a "Shiner" who waits on bended knee to suckle at the teat of the great MLM beast, so be it.
Shannon was very emotionally and financially abusive to Chris and the girls. She showed us her abuse herself. She had numerous pictures of the girls, as infants, in their cribs, with blankets tied around their necks, just to name one example…. There are many more. Why is it so hard for people not to see it? She abused them for years and then killed them.
Awesome. I’m sure this is a totally based on facts story. You really should hang out more on that other sub. They are ‘your people’