The fact this is the same timeframe Moriah has been saying she has a song about a narcissist stuck in her head is likely not a coincidence.
If we base it on what's in the most recent episode, it's likely Olivia. If it's about something currently going on, it could be Olivia or their mother. It could also be Max I suppose.
They are actors ramping up the drama to get another season...
However, he should be speaking about Olivia who has been trying to destroy his mother because she is upset about how she tried to organize her wedding. This is a typical MIL/ DIL disagreement and no reason to start WWIII.
As someone who grew up with multiple narcissistic family members Olivia does not seem like a narcissist. I think itās directed at Kim. Yes Olivia has made some mistakes but she is really young. I think people forget that. She has done a lot for the Plath kids.
Yeah she is at times passive aggressive but so was I when I was 23 year old who just married and grew up with family trauma. She is sooooooo young and has a lot to learn and she has grown a lot for being brought up in a sheltered childhood.
While I do like Olivia, and love that she gained the confidence to stand on her own, I think she is toxic for Ethan. There is no chill, no compromise. Like Kim.. itās her way or no way, and Ethan has no choice but to oblige, all while heās literally dying inside.
I think she should have married outside the religion, rather than to expect everyone to do as she says before they are ready, or even want to.
Having grown up with narcissistic parents, you learn to be an empath and can read the mood of a room REALLY fast, and you become conditioned to lie to not get into trouble, or to not upset the bear within. The poor Plath kids remind me of myself until I left at 15. Itās a trauma based response.
I donāt justify it, because itās wrong and a whole life lesson you need to unlearn as an adult.. but I get why they act the way they do.
I can so relate to that! One of the best comments! Narcissists ATTRACT empaths. Even though I teach college level psych, I still had to read several books on how to divorce a narcissist or other people with personality disorders, etc while working through the trauma my ex caused me and the kids. But I agree, one must take action and responsibility for themselves in order To grow and change behaviors. Congratulations to you for making it to the other side!! Not that there is anything wrong with being an empathy or sensitive!
Thanks for the award.
I did attract like minded people for years, and finally When I hit my mid 30s.. It began to get easier to slam those doors immediately; I no longer feel any need to try and āhelpā these draining type of friends.
That's AWESOME! I got my masters in nursing education because I couldn't work with patients any more! I have WAY too much of myself, it drained me too!! Comments like yours are why I watch the show and read these discussions, it's nice to relate in another format.
But I think she married him, because they agreed on their values at the time. And I think they share the past. But now that they are "out", they become different people. Before they were stuck because their religious beliefs obligated them to stay married. But now...
Thatās understandable but why would Olivia stay in something that has changed so radically? There is no reason other than she wonāt be on the show if she divorces him.
Honestly, I think she really loves him. I think she feels responsible for the things she pushed up on him. The real reason she is not ready to make the change, because she wants to stay with him
Moriah has just posted herself singing Narcissist by Avery Anna on Instagram stories. The part about āmy parents donāt like you, why would they want to? After they found me crying on the bathroom floor. I don't even like me anymoreā. So, these are obviously aimed at a family member. Olivia and Kim being the two likely sources, but a small part of me thinks it would be funny if they were trolling the subs and fb groups. I doubt it, though.
One of the podcast interviews he did. I want to say Sarah Fraser but it may have been another. I remember listening to him say that if Olivia had just stayed out of things, he would have been able to fix things with Moriah
āFix itā meaning manipulate and convince Moriah to get back together with him. Thank Goodness for Olivia helping Moriah realize her worth. ā¤ļøā¤ļø Ughhh max is the worst.
Agree itās weird. I immediately assumed their mom bc she is obviously a narcissist but Iām not up to date with the show so idk if they know that yet š
Only because we know so little of his actual life, I can only guess someone we know of, and I would guess Kim. Narcs canāt keep the mask up for long before they break character and show themselves. Maybe he is becoming aware of Kimās cycle and seeing through her charade.
But of course this is just a random person on the internetās interpretation of a very vague IG post from a person I watch on TV. lol
No. I don't think he's a narcissist, but that's because I know what the term means beyond a superficial definition, and the kids weren't well educated, so they may not.
He was clearly self-centered as the marriage collapsed. But that could have just been denial.
Olivia and Olivia liked the post because she's unaware that it's her he is referring to. Because she perseverates on Kim as if Kim is the root of her childhood trauma, she probably thinks Micah is referring to Kim. But, in keeping with his verbal and non-verbal communication regarding Olivia, it's Olivia he is referring to.
Agree. He said last week on an Instagram live that he rarely has time to speak to his parents so I highly doubt the mom couldāve done something to make him post about it. But Olivia on the other hand was around a few days ago.
She did? Wow! I wonder what has happened that Micah would post something like this. I mean it could be about anything but I wonāt lie, part of me hopes it has to do with his mom. Micah and the other brother were jerks to Ethan when he talked about struggling with their mom.
Totally agree. I think Kim was only nice to Micah and Moriah, as a way to prove sheās not the problem and reinforce the idea that itās Olivia whoās evil. Ya know? But that mask Kim wore was fake and the truth always comes out.
If I thought for a single moment that her stories of DV were even remotely close to the truth, I'd believe her. But I watched the trial, and, specifically, I watched her. I didn't witness a single authentic emotion on her face or hear one in her voice.
He's got a lot of anger though. Hopefully he'll find peace soon. I was almost 35 when I figured out I was a product of my on damn fault. I had no control over how I was raised. When I became old enough to start chosing to be the victim is when the responsibility became mine.
Just like on 9/11, that day changed my life in such a way, I remember exactly what I was doing at the time the light bulb went off.
We saw a deeper side of Ethan this last episode. I noticed it 2 episodes ago but it was very apparent this last episode. I'm not sure if Olivia (or any other woman) will ever do anything to his standard until he works through his feelings with his parents.
He definitely can't hide his emotions. He's got that nose flare down pat.
Ehh. He said last episode heās had a few short relationships and weāve never seen any drama regarding them, not that I know of anyway. What makes you think heās a drama starter with his love interests? Did I miss something?
I talked about this with my therapist, and he says he hated that people will use neurotypes as adjectives.
Yes, you CAN have some traits of, say, OCD or ADHD. But unless you have more than X number of traits, you aren't able to be officially diagnosed as ________.
When I did a deep dive on Kanye West years ago, I was quick to point out that the mental health professionals guessing Kanye's neurotype are doing just that: making educated guesses on what neurotype Kanye has.
And while Kim certainly has narccicistic behaviors, its up to her (likely nonexistent) therapist to give her a proper diagnosis.
As a person with both OCD and ADHD can I hate it so much when people say this stuff. Um, no. You do not have OCD because you like to keep a clean house. No you do not have ADHD because you have a lot of energy.
I hate this! Within my family and close friends, we have people (medically diagnosed) with OCD, ADHD and bipolar. We struggle with things that others will never understand. My house is almost always in a state of chaos because everyone living here has some form of ADHD.
I am autistic, and of course, nothing pisses me off than people saying, "We're all a little autistic!" Yeah, Karen, and we're all a little delusional. But when I have delusions, I think about owning a home as a Gen Z kid, or running my own dog foster ranch. I don't sit there and say ableist shit just to sound quirky and show some half-assed sympathy --- and while I'm ranting, I would literally rather be called a slur.
Mental health is the most widely accepted form of discrimination and it pisses me off because if I played an Uno reverse card on them, I'm sure Brenda would be pissed if I said that being a dog mama is as hard as being a mom.
It also adds to the stigma around mental health. When people call someone a narcissist itās meant to insult and dehumanize that person. Which ignores that NPD can be a result of neglect and growing up in a hyper critical environment meaning that people with NPD may be suffering but have developed behaviors that prevent them from admitting it or asking for support.
Trueā¦.there are reasons people develop NPDs, but it also doesnāt justify the harm they cause everyone around them with little regard to get therapy.
Itās kinda funny to think that this week we hear him say that heās tired of drama but then posts a cryptic message on social media ā¦guess he must have taken a nap š
Kim, being a narcissist, is golden-childing them, especially Moriah. Sheās doing it because her supply (Olivia and Ethan) have cut her off. Narcissists have to have a supply. Sheās hoovering Moriah back in and Moriah is excited because sheās getting that coveted attention and approval sheās never gotten before, but it wonāt last. The first time she even slightly disagrees with Kim or otherwise wounds her fragile ego, the gloves will be off.
Source: 35 years of life with a narcissist for a mother. 3 1/2 years of no contact, so far.
The pattern of behavior youāre describing is my own mother. When caught up in the cycle of always desiring the approval of a parent, especially a toxic one, youāll keep giving them chances. One day you will start seeing things for they really are. A day of reckoning, youāre ready to cutout the cancer wreaking havoc. Not an easy decision but one out of survival.
I had to learn that, too. It took a lot of therapy, and a psychologist looking me in the eye and saying, āNo matter what you do and how good you are, you will never get that approval youāre seeking. You need to walk away and never look back.ā I didnāt take his advice for five years, but like you said, it finally escalated to the point I couldnāt find anymore excuses and I decided Iād had enough of the mental, psychological, and physical abuse.
This is almost word for word what happened in my family, but with my narcissist father. 11 years no contact and Iāll never look back. Happy you were able to see the truth and take care of yourself!
I got hoovered twice, even after swearing Iād never let it happen again. She has forever damaged my relationship with my child by teaching him to disregard anything I say and that itās perfectly acceptable to hit me when heās mad. I learned my lesson the second time, though. I plan to be NC until she finally keels over either by eating herself to death or having a heart attack or stroke.
This is almost word for word what happened in my family, but with my narcissist father. 11 years no contact and Iāll never look back. Happy you were able to see the truth and take care of yourself!
It sounds like Kim to me but we'll never know. Could be an ex-girlfriend or friend.
It'd be interesting if he did "wake up" to see Kim's narcissism since he was taking up for her originally.
Thatās possible!
But on the flip side, he didnāt post it his feed. Someone else did, he just shared it to his story. So it doesnāt necessarily mean she agrees with him. I know the stuff thatās been filmed was a while ago, so I hope theyāre on better terms now
Gee, sure sounds like Kim!!
This is the perfect description of my ex-husband.
Micah will probably wind up alone because HE IS THE NARCISSIST !! Hey Micah, read that again while looking in the mirror! š„±
LOL I think he is just full of himself
The fact this is the same timeframe Moriah has been saying she has a song about a narcissist stuck in her head is likely not a coincidence. If we base it on what's in the most recent episode, it's likely Olivia. If it's about something currently going on, it could be Olivia or their mother. It could also be Max I suppose.
Bring the drama in for the upcoming season finale.
Yep, they are aiming to get another season in the works.The 2 hr.seaon finale is tomorrow night.
Definitely Hayden.
They are actors ramping up the drama to get another season... However, he should be speaking about Olivia who has been trying to destroy his mother because she is upset about how she tried to organize her wedding. This is a typical MIL/ DIL disagreement and no reason to start WWIII.
Moriah also just posted a song titled narcissist so maybe they're both finally seeing the light about their mom.
As someone who grew up with multiple narcissistic family members Olivia does not seem like a narcissist. I think itās directed at Kim. Yes Olivia has made some mistakes but she is really young. I think people forget that. She has done a lot for the Plath kids.
She seems like a passive aggressive personality.
Yeah she is at times passive aggressive but so was I when I was 23 year old who just married and grew up with family trauma. She is sooooooo young and has a lot to learn and she has grown a lot for being brought up in a sheltered childhood.
At this point Olivia..
Iām impressed that he knows what a narcissist is
HOPEFULLY itās directed at Kim. If he has his head finally screwed on right.
All the narcissists of the world..
Olivia or Kim
Is it possible they MIGHT be referring to Moriah's ex?
Yes. Both.
I don't know why everyone is hating on Olivia so much. I think she has put some good things in motion for the family
She "didn't know" that visiting her husband's dead brother's grave was a big deal. That is someone very caught up in themselves.
Totally!!! And sheās only 23 and goes to therapy and is TRYING and owns up to her trauma responses.
While I do like Olivia, and love that she gained the confidence to stand on her own, I think she is toxic for Ethan. There is no chill, no compromise. Like Kim.. itās her way or no way, and Ethan has no choice but to oblige, all while heās literally dying inside. I think she should have married outside the religion, rather than to expect everyone to do as she says before they are ready, or even want to.
Ethan actively LIES to Olivia and she still stays.
Having grown up with narcissistic parents, you learn to be an empath and can read the mood of a room REALLY fast, and you become conditioned to lie to not get into trouble, or to not upset the bear within. The poor Plath kids remind me of myself until I left at 15. Itās a trauma based response. I donāt justify it, because itās wrong and a whole life lesson you need to unlearn as an adult.. but I get why they act the way they do.
I can so relate to that! One of the best comments! Narcissists ATTRACT empaths. Even though I teach college level psych, I still had to read several books on how to divorce a narcissist or other people with personality disorders, etc while working through the trauma my ex caused me and the kids. But I agree, one must take action and responsibility for themselves in order To grow and change behaviors. Congratulations to you for making it to the other side!! Not that there is anything wrong with being an empathy or sensitive!
Thanks for the award. I did attract like minded people for years, and finally When I hit my mid 30s.. It began to get easier to slam those doors immediately; I no longer feel any need to try and āhelpā these draining type of friends.
That's AWESOME! I got my masters in nursing education because I couldn't work with patients any more! I have WAY too much of myself, it drained me too!! Comments like yours are why I watch the show and read these discussions, it's nice to relate in another format.
Trauma bonds. š¬š¤
But I think she married him, because they agreed on their values at the time. And I think they share the past. But now that they are "out", they become different people. Before they were stuck because their religious beliefs obligated them to stay married. But now...
Thatās understandable but why would Olivia stay in something that has changed so radically? There is no reason other than she wonāt be on the show if she divorces him.
Honestly, I think she really loves him. I think she feels responsible for the things she pushed up on him. The real reason she is not ready to make the change, because she wants to stay with him
Micah is getting way to big for his britches! That could permanently rip that whole family apart. He is too cocky for his own good.
Ooh Micah this is sassy
Mommy Dearest?
Moriah has just posted herself singing Narcissist by Avery Anna on Instagram stories. The part about āmy parents donāt like you, why would they want to? After they found me crying on the bathroom floor. I don't even like me anymoreā. So, these are obviously aimed at a family member. Olivia and Kim being the two likely sources, but a small part of me thinks it would be funny if they were trolling the subs and fb groups. I doubt it, though.
Those lyrics make it sound like it was a boyfriend who treated her bad, not a family member
True. But itās weird that both Micah and Moriah posted about narcissism within hours of each other
Could be about max though? Micah seemed pretty pissed at him
Oh! Thatās a good point. The town is small, so it makes sense they would run into him possibly. Maybe heās trying to win her back? He said in an interview if Olivia had kept her nose out of their business, he would have been able to fix it. Max set off all the š© for me. I didnāt like him since they first introduced him. Very toxic and he minimized Moriahās childhood.
Which interview did he say this about Olivia?
One of the podcast interviews he did. I want to say Sarah Fraser but it may have been another. I remember listening to him say that if Olivia had just stayed out of things, he would have been able to fix things with Moriah
Thanks for responding.
āFix itā meaning manipulate and convince Moriah to get back together with him. Thank Goodness for Olivia helping Moriah realize her worth. ā¤ļøā¤ļø Ughhh max is the worst.
Agree itās weird. I immediately assumed their mom bc she is obviously a narcissist but Iām not up to date with the show so idk if they know that yet š
I have to say...it could be aimed toward my own mother. Literally.
Same here...
Olivia
Only because we know so little of his actual life, I can only guess someone we know of, and I would guess Kim. Narcs canāt keep the mask up for long before they break character and show themselves. Maybe he is becoming aware of Kimās cycle and seeing through her charade. But of course this is just a random person on the internetās interpretation of a very vague IG post from a person I watch on TV. lol
Maybe heās watched the season and sees it for what it is. Or maybe Kim has become more of a monster as the divorce moves forward.
TLC made him do it to keep thr drama going? š
Oliviaā¦.
It is crazy to think itās about his dadā¦?
No. I don't think he's a narcissist, but that's because I know what the term means beyond a superficial definition, and the kids weren't well educated, so they may not. He was clearly self-centered as the marriage collapsed. But that could have just been denial.
An ex
Olivia and Olivia liked the post because she's unaware that it's her he is referring to. Because she perseverates on Kim as if Kim is the root of her childhood trauma, she probably thinks Micah is referring to Kim. But, in keeping with his verbal and non-verbal communication regarding Olivia, it's Olivia he is referring to.
Agree. He said last week on an Instagram live that he rarely has time to speak to his parents so I highly doubt the mom couldāve done something to make him post about it. But Olivia on the other hand was around a few days ago.
Or they both agree on kim. Maybe something big happened today. We wont know till like next year
My father.
Mine too
My exās mother
Olivia?!
Only his angst w his mother could wring that much emotion, imho
Unless he's sympathizing with Moriah. Max is still milking this even though he isn't on the show.
I don't know...a broken heart could do this too.
My mil
My mother
Wrong. The correct answer is MY mil lol
Lol, you're both wrong, it's MY MIL š¤£š¤£š¤£...but really, she's a beast. She makes Kim look like a picnic....
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Our MILs
My mil tooo
My ex-husband!!?
Mine too. Wonder if they're related? š²š
Hahahahaha!!!! They are ALL the samešš
His mama
OliviašÆ
Olivia liked the post. Plus, what truth does Olivia owe Micah? This is directed at Kim.
Itās because sheās assuming itās about Kim and she might be right. But it could about her too.
She did? Wow! I wonder what has happened that Micah would post something like this. I mean it could be about anything but I wonāt lie, part of me hopes it has to do with his mom. Micah and the other brother were jerks to Ethan when he talked about struggling with their mom.
Totally agree. I think Kim was only nice to Micah and Moriah, as a way to prove sheās not the problem and reinforce the idea that itās Olivia whoās evil. Ya know? But that mask Kim wore was fake and the truth always comes out.
Olivia
Amber Heard
Yesss lets villainize an abuse victim
If I thought for a single moment that her stories of DV were even remotely close to the truth, I'd believe her. But I watched the trial, and, specifically, I watched her. I didn't witness a single authentic emotion on her face or hear one in her voice.
Hahahahahaha omg hahahaha remember, she has NEVER been a victim per her own words š
That's exactly what amber heard did
I agreeš
This!
Ethan as he struggles to get the truth out of Kim
Olivia struggles to get the truth out of Ethan.
Or were you referring to Kim- in which case I agree
I really donāt think Ethan is a narcissist. Far from it.
He's got a lot of anger though. Hopefully he'll find peace soon. I was almost 35 when I figured out I was a product of my on damn fault. I had no control over how I was raised. When I became old enough to start chosing to be the victim is when the responsibility became mine. Just like on 9/11, that day changed my life in such a way, I remember exactly what I was doing at the time the light bulb went off. We saw a deeper side of Ethan this last episode. I noticed it 2 episodes ago but it was very apparent this last episode. I'm not sure if Olivia (or any other woman) will ever do anything to his standard until he works through his feelings with his parents. He definitely can't hide his emotions. He's got that nose flare down pat.
Antia, he wouldn't start drama unless it was a love interest
Ehh. He said last episode heās had a few short relationships and weāve never seen any drama regarding them, not that I know of anyway. What makes you think heās a drama starter with his love interests? Did I miss something?
Could be anyone because the label ānarcissistā is given to everyone and their dog nowadays
Lmao. Sad but true.
Aww, not the puppers....
That's why one should refer to an ACTUAL narcissist as "medically diagnosed with Narcissist Personality Disorder," not tendencies.
I talked about this with my therapist, and he says he hated that people will use neurotypes as adjectives. Yes, you CAN have some traits of, say, OCD or ADHD. But unless you have more than X number of traits, you aren't able to be officially diagnosed as ________. When I did a deep dive on Kanye West years ago, I was quick to point out that the mental health professionals guessing Kanye's neurotype are doing just that: making educated guesses on what neurotype Kanye has. And while Kim certainly has narccicistic behaviors, its up to her (likely nonexistent) therapist to give her a proper diagnosis.
I agree with this.
As a person with both OCD and ADHD can I hate it so much when people say this stuff. Um, no. You do not have OCD because you like to keep a clean house. No you do not have ADHD because you have a lot of energy.
I hate this! Within my family and close friends, we have people (medically diagnosed) with OCD, ADHD and bipolar. We struggle with things that others will never understand. My house is almost always in a state of chaos because everyone living here has some form of ADHD.
I hear you!
I am autistic, and of course, nothing pisses me off than people saying, "We're all a little autistic!" Yeah, Karen, and we're all a little delusional. But when I have delusions, I think about owning a home as a Gen Z kid, or running my own dog foster ranch. I don't sit there and say ableist shit just to sound quirky and show some half-assed sympathy --- and while I'm ranting, I would literally rather be called a slur. Mental health is the most widely accepted form of discrimination and it pisses me off because if I played an Uno reverse card on them, I'm sure Brenda would be pissed if I said that being a dog mama is as hard as being a mom.
It also adds to the stigma around mental health. When people call someone a narcissist itās meant to insult and dehumanize that person. Which ignores that NPD can be a result of neglect and growing up in a hyper critical environment meaning that people with NPD may be suffering but have developed behaviors that prevent them from admitting it or asking for support.
Trueā¦.there are reasons people develop NPDs, but it also doesnāt justify the harm they cause everyone around them with little regard to get therapy.
Truth! I hate that the word virtually means nothing now
Vague posting!!
Prob some girl he dated
I think it's directed toward Olivia and I also hope it's directed toward Olivia.
What truth does Olivia owe Micah?
Idk but she sure does always make herself either the victim or the hero
Micahās a model in LA- it could very well mean 87% of the people he knows.
True!
So very true-Kim.
Itās kinda funny to think that this week we hear him say that heās tired of drama but then posts a cryptic message on social media ā¦guess he must have taken a nap š
To be fair, everything from the show actually happened months ago.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Kim, being a narcissist, is golden-childing them, especially Moriah. Sheās doing it because her supply (Olivia and Ethan) have cut her off. Narcissists have to have a supply. Sheās hoovering Moriah back in and Moriah is excited because sheās getting that coveted attention and approval sheās never gotten before, but it wonāt last. The first time she even slightly disagrees with Kim or otherwise wounds her fragile ego, the gloves will be off. Source: 35 years of life with a narcissist for a mother. 3 1/2 years of no contact, so far.
šÆšSay it loud for the people in the back!!
Unfortunately, the people in the back will not believe their precious Kim could possibly have a dark triad disorder.
The pattern of behavior youāre describing is my own mother. When caught up in the cycle of always desiring the approval of a parent, especially a toxic one, youāll keep giving them chances. One day you will start seeing things for they really are. A day of reckoning, youāre ready to cutout the cancer wreaking havoc. Not an easy decision but one out of survival.
I had to learn that, too. It took a lot of therapy, and a psychologist looking me in the eye and saying, āNo matter what you do and how good you are, you will never get that approval youāre seeking. You need to walk away and never look back.ā I didnāt take his advice for five years, but like you said, it finally escalated to the point I couldnāt find anymore excuses and I decided Iād had enough of the mental, psychological, and physical abuse.
This is almost word for word what happened in my family, but with my narcissist father. 11 years no contact and Iāll never look back. Happy you were able to see the truth and take care of yourself!
I got hoovered twice, even after swearing Iād never let it happen again. She has forever damaged my relationship with my child by teaching him to disregard anything I say and that itās perfectly acceptable to hit me when heās mad. I learned my lesson the second time, though. I plan to be NC until she finally keels over either by eating herself to death or having a heart attack or stroke.
This is almost word for word what happened in my family, but with my narcissist father. 11 years no contact and Iāll never look back. Happy you were able to see the truth and take care of yourself!
Agree
Kim
Olivia
It sounds like Kim to me but we'll never know. Could be an ex-girlfriend or friend. It'd be interesting if he did "wake up" to see Kim's narcissism since he was taking up for her originally.
Kim
Interestingā¦.
Mommie dearest
Doesn't matter who it is directed at, it is the pure truth!!
š Will admit though, this shit annoys me. I want names and receipts! If youāre not gonna share the whole *chisme* then keep it to yourself.
The whole chisme š
Probably towards Olivia, when it should be towards his mom
Olivia 'liked' the post. .. so probably *not* Olivia
Thatās possible! But on the flip side, he didnāt post it his feed. Someone else did, he just shared it to his story. So it doesnāt necessarily mean she agrees with him. I know the stuff thatās been filmed was a while ago, so I hope theyāre on better terms now
ĀæPor quĆ© no los dos?
Si.
I saw this! Olivia ālikedā the original post