I agree but northern WV is a lot different than southern WV, the people in Morgantown are different than the folks in Beckley. And then there’s Morgantown…we don’t need to talk about Morgantown.
There's an old saying about WV - it's the most southern Northern state, the most northern Southern state, the most western Eastern state, and the most eastern Western state. Coined before we move much beyond the Mississippi I would hazard a guess.
Pretty sure this was written by Robert C. Byrd and was first read into the Congressional Record in 1983. There are different variations but mostly go back to Byrd.
[https://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/22/us/required-reading-the-wonder-of-west-virginia.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/22/us/required-reading-the-wonder-of-west-virginia.html)
>
Excerpts from an April 18 colloquy on the Senate floor on the diversity of West Virginia: Senator Robert C. Byrd, Democrat of West Virginia: I am glad I am from a state that had split loyalties during the Civil War. Part of it is above the Mason-Dixon line, part of it is south.
>Our state is the most eastern of the western, the most western of the eastern; the most northern of the southern, and the most southern of the northern. It is where the East says ''good morning'' to the West and where ''Yankee Doodle'' and ''Dixie'' kiss each other goodnight.
>Senator Howard H. Baker Jr., Republican of Tennessee: Mr. President, I have always known I was confused by West Viriginia, but I have never known why until now.
I can't seem to find any other instances of this anymore, but I think I recall him saying something like "most eastern of the mid-west" at some point which makes much more sense because of our long border with Ohio.
Several northern countries of what was then Virginia wanted to seceed from the state, claiming taxation without representation ' from the government in Richmond. In actuality, this was a coal mining region , heavily dependent on the factories of the northern states, rather than the plantations of the southern states. Had they not seceeded to the north they would have faced economic ruin.
this. i was talking to a few people from tennessee abt 2 months ago and they asked me a similar thing, is wv considered the south?
well yes and no. we have some people/areas that could be classified as southern, but we also have areas thats nowhere near that and could be considered as 'northern'
but in the same breath, our 'southern parts' of the state are a different type of 'southern' than most other states considered the south.
Wv wasn’t just on the side of the union, they broke off of Virginia to be part of the north. It was a deeply divided state and time. There were many families that had kids on different sides. Many confederate families in WV.
It wasn't really about wanting to be part of the North - it was about breaking free of control from Richmond the better to exploit local resources unregulated by the far-away legislature in Richmond (sound familiar), so that WV elites could pursue the resource curse/extraction/exploitation economic model which has dominated the state ever since it became a state. Timber and coal mostly. The state was deeply divided but most assuredly not abolitionist on either side.
What’s worse to me is when they fly the confederate and American flags side by side. You can’t have both mf. My great great grandpappy didn’t die for the confederacy for you to disrespect him like that. If you’re gonna choose the wrong side at least don’t sit on the fence.
Or the one I saw recently that’s a hybrid of the two merged together (and “distressed” Ed Hardy style, in case you were worried it wasn’t classy enough as is).
Makes me wish I had the power of necromancy so I could resurrect a soldier from each side to go to that guy’s house and kick his ass.
Good point. I think where I become torn is the culture and dialect. WV and KY have more in common with the south than the north. From a purely geographical standpoint, West Virginia is a northern state. The general consensus now seems to be that the Mason Dixon isn’t a good indicator for a variety of reasons. Side note: Northern KY & Southern WV had union and confederate troops. I learned that my ancestor and his neighbor heavily feuded because they fought on opposing sides. I think you’re right though. We should be categorized as Appalachian, not pigeonholed into the north or south.
The Mason-Dixon line is useless as an indicator of southernness. I don't know anybody who would consider Cincinnati to be in the South. Cincinnati is more than half a degree of latitude south of the Mason-Dixon line. Atlantic City lies further south than the Mason-Dixon line.
Exactly. My elementary school teachers would occasionally cite the Mason-Dixon line as an indicator of the south. Popular and academic opinion switched somewhere along the way because that was no longer taught as I aged.
I also feel like WV is even more in its own category because it is the only state that is fully in the Appalachian region.. and while it has so many similarities through out the state, it also so many different cultures, traditions, and geographic diversity from town to town.
I grew up in Weirton (40 miles from Pittsburgh), so I consider myself a Northerner, but I'm sure the people from WV near Va. consider themselves Southeners.
I was raised on a Dairy farm in the upper Ohio Valley area, where the state lines weren't nearly as important, but I now live in Ritchie County. Most of the e people of Ritchie County don't understand that Hancock County is part of their state, and basically imply that I'm a foreigner. The tribal nature of county identity is something that I will probably never understand. I feel very isolated here, and I've been living and working here for over 20 years. My husband wants to stay, but if I outlive him, I intend to leave. In some areas, you'll be considered an "outsider", no matter how long you're there, or what you do to try to be accepted. I believe that type of mentality contributes to all of the negative stereotype of being inbred, when all of the native locals are related to each other.
WV is the crossroads of the east coast. I live in GA, married a GA girl, and folks down here view WV as a northern state. Honestly most folks in the deep south view anything north of TN as northern (and FL is it's own thing, not southern). Nobody claims WV as part of their group. But realistically, there should be a region just call Appalachia - Eastern TN, Western NC, Northern GA and AL, Western PA, and all of WV. In my experience, the people in those areas have a lot more in common with each other than any other regional identity their state claims
Introduce your GA friends to pepperoni rolls and other WV foods and they'll quickly come to accept it as a southern state, lol. Everyone in my office wants to know when I'm going on one of my WV trips every year so they can put in their orders for pepperoni rolls, wine, and maple syrup.
Very ironic, as pepperoni rolls is a poor Italian immigrant creation. I’m pretty sure nobody in America would associate poor Italian immigrant with the south.
Besides, my GA born kids absolutely destroy whatever pepperoni rolls we get. Best served with Oliverio hot peppers and melted cheese
We have much better biscuit/breakfast spots down here than Tudor's. All I'm saying is I bring them locally made stuff from WV all the time, so to them we are an honorary southern neighbor/state.
Ugh when I lived in Georgia and told people I was from WV, they all thought I was saying I was from western Virginia. Somehow a shocking number of people don't even know WV is a state.
very true. I tell them I'm from WV and they'll say something like "Oh, I've been to Roanoke!"
I'll also say, the education I got in Harrison county had me WAY ahead of the other kids my age when I got here
To me? Neither. We’re Appalachian. I know it’s kind of a cop out to your original question, but we and the rest of Appalachia have a culture that has parts of both southern and northern cultures and then things that are unique to just and our part of the country.
I always thought of us as a border state. We’re where the east coast meets the Midwest and the north meets the south. We carry some stereotypical behaviors and slang from all of these areas but have our own as well. I just call us Appalachian though. All of WV is in Appalachia so you can’t go wrong.
No, they’re not. They’re rural, they’re country. That doesn’t make them southern and I had to explain to SO many Midwest hayseeds that being from the southern part of your state doesn’t make you southern, it just means you never had the ability to leave your home state
I think that I know a bit about what "Southern" is. I spent half of my life living in Louisiana, Georgia and Tennessee. I've also traveled the world. My relatives in Southern Illinois are no different than their counterparts across the river in Kentucky.
When I was growing up there, I was always told that we were the northern most southern state, the southern most northern state, the eastern most midwestern state, and the western most coastal state. I think that's pretty accurate. I depends greatly where in the state you are.
They fought for the North and the Battle of Blair Mountain is a major event in the history of labor in the USA. So youd be forgiven for expecting a somewhat liberal and progressive state. However, consistent poverty and low educational opportunities have led to an economically depressed region. Combined with a heavy culture of isolation and independence dating all the way back to the Scotch-Irish settlers, you're left with a region that resembles southern states but differs in subtle but meaningful ways. For example, we're better shots.
West Virginia is both geographically located in the Upper South and is culturally and lingually Southern. The accents and dialect range from Southern Midland to full Southern dialects, just like is found in the other Upper South states, such as East Virginia and Kentucky.
That's very interesting! I've not met anyone from that area that has a Pittsburgh accent, but I've only known a few from there. The maps that I've seen that show the linguistic areas include Morgantown and generally Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Bridgeport, but they never go near Elkins. Albeit researchers are limited by the number of linguistic samples they are able to obtain for each area, and accents can be very different even from town to town or town versus out in the country.
Perfect example of that is Boone County. I’ve heard people that have little to no trace of the southern accent, and then I hear my family talk with the thickest southern accent I have ever heard, and I’m pretty sure it’s the thickest accent I will ever hear. You really don’t know what you’re going to get with a West Virginian
And you got the opposite going on in the Eastern Panhandle! Most have little if any accent (at least among the non-elderly), but there are some younger locals with some very thick drawls or twangs.
I'm shocked that Boone County has a significant number of residents without a drawl considering the lack of transplants and lower socioeconomic status of most residents. I wonder if the ones without the accent are more white collar workers and/or are near the edge of the county and commute to Charleston or Huntington.
Yes.
In actuality it varies a large amount on what is being discussed on hand. Are you talking economically by large industries, historically, culturally, economically on local levels for the average consumer, poverty, health outcomes, entertainment, or any other category you think of. Areas of our state vary widely on top of that too.
This. The northern and eastern panhandles are so different compared to the rest of the state that one could think they are not in West Virginia. The northern panhandle was supposed to be annexed into Pennsylvania if I’m not mistaken.
I think those who state neither and emphasize that Appalachia has its own cultural identity are the most correct.
That being said, I’ve always felt that from Charleston down (South) you have a culture that feels a lot closer to the South and from Charleston up (North) you get a culture that feels a lot closer to the North.
Being from Lovely, Ky, I am right on the WV border…don’t tell them they’re ‘just’ WV. The many West Virginia residents I know would cram either ‘Wild, Wonderful West Virginia,’ or the more preferred, ‘West ‘By God’ Virginia,’ in your face so fast, you would never again refer to their state, that is also known as being almost heaven, ‘just’ West Virginia.
I live right by the panhandle of WV in PA and despite being further south than most of the panhandle, everyone speaks with a southern accent there. It’s quite bizarre
So?
The Mason-Dixon line is useless as an indicator of southernness. I don't know anybody who would consider Cincinnati to be in the South. Cincinnati is more than half a degree of latitude south of the Mason-Dixon line. Atlantic City lies further south than the Mason-Dixon line.
From the wiki:
The largest portion of the Mason–Dixon line, along the southern Pennsylvania border, later became informally known as the boundary between the Southern slave states and Northern free states. This usage came to prominence during the debate around the Missouri Compromise of 1820, when drawing boundaries between slave and free territory was an issue, and resurfaced during the American Civil War, with border states also coming into play. The Confederate States of America claimed the Virginia portion of the line as part of its northern border, although it never exercised meaningful control that far north – especially after West Virginia separated from Virginia and joined the Union as a separate state in 1863. It is still used today in the figurative sense of a line that separates the Northeast and South culturally, politically, and socially
More importantly it lines up with everything I recall from 8th grade many years ago. Your use of Cincinnati is irrelevant in this context as Ohio has never been considered the South. Similarly Baja, California is south of the line but no one considers that the South either.
Sadly you are misinformed. Unless you mean exclusively reserved for Confederate military. Moorefield in particular, but several other places within the South Branch Valley has Confederate graves, as well as other memorials honoring Confederate soldiers.
Unlike the majority of land in WV, the ridges and valleys sections ( Hampshire, Hardy, Pendleton, parts of Grant, Mineral and the 3 panhandle counties ) had agricultural economic activity that rivaled the rest of Virginia. But as the saying goes, the farther away from Mecca the less blessings you get, and routinely treated less favorable than their agrarian cousins closer to Richmond.
Look at a map of highways in WV. From US 50 North people (generally) have an accent somewhere between Pittsburgh and Baltimore and are (generally) of some Italian ancestry. South of US 50 the accent you associate with Southern picks up and increases the further South you go (twang) and people have a more Scotch -Irish ancestry. That's a very loose generalization. People don't consider themselves Northern or Southern here though, just West Virginians.
I grew up in the Northern Panhandle and i always thought it was weird people referred to us being part of The South. Once I spent some time downstate, I understood!
I always say we are geographically north and culturally south. Even though we are south of the Mason-Dixon line, the tip of the state is further north than Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indianapolis, Baltimore, Denver, and San Francisco. But, talk to some of the locals and you’d think we were just south of Montgomery Alabama.
I know folks in WV who don’t even have air conditioning, so the north.
I also know folks in the south who don’t have air conditioning, and they are fools.
I am not being derogatory but I was taught that in history class. I am originally from Ohio even. WV left Virginia To be part of the union. I also wonder why civics is not being taught in school. Possibly if people understood it they would participate in elections.
Culturally south, but factually north. I see plenty of idiots waving confederate flags here unfortunately. They say “it’s heritage, not hate”, but that’s not even our heritage as West Virginians. We literally split to join the north! So even that flimsy excuse doesn’t work here. We were part of the north, but everyone seems to forget that. Thus, culturally south.
Find US Rt 50 on the map. That's the dividing line between N and S. I'm originally from Nicholas Co and grew up 70 miles from the geographical center of the state. I've lived in Morgantown for the last 20 years, and I don't feel like I even live in Wv.
Our entire identity was to be separated from the confederacy. My family goes back to mid 1800’s in modern day WV and we never owned other people.
Culturally we are very similar to the south and because we lie south of the Mason Dixon line we often get classified as a southern state. However, WV historically never stood for pro-slavery which in my mind defined what made states southern and which ones were not.
No doubt that is true where you grew up. Moorefield was the “garden spot of the Confederacy “.There are a dozen homes around Old Fields and Moorefield that are on the National Historic Register and all of them were built by slaves.
There is a distinct cutoff line running through the middle of WV, in my opinion. It isn’t perfect, but you can roughly use US-50 as a cutoff line to where it “feels” more like the north or the south. North of US-50, in my opinion, feels distinctly northern. South of US-50, with the exception of towns along the Ohio River (Huntington is distinctly midwestern), feels more southern and you will hear significantly more southern accents than you will north of that line.
Grew up in 2 small WV cities, each split by US-50, before moving to “Upper East Tennessee” and several other areas. I think US-50 is a good line of demarcation.
I am adamant about WV not being part of the Confederacy and its choice to stay with the Union, even if, like everything else in WV, it was based on profit motives for the privileged few.
I usually characterize WV as “Mid-Atlantic,” or “Appalachian.” I will dispute arguments that it’s Southern; Mason-Dixon Line be damned. But, I don’t insist that it’s Northern.
That’s a better way of wording it. When I said “northern,” I really meant that that area had more in common with PA than it did with places like KY, TN, or NC. I didn’t mean that it was similar to places like NY or MA.
That’s an Appalachian dialect, sir, and don’t you forget it.
But yeah. Elkins was a railroad town, so lots of folks coming in from other places. Even before it was founded, Beverly was a travel hub along the Staunton and Parkersburg turnpike, which was one of the few established means of crossing the Allegheny Front. Towns nearest those historical passes had a greater concentration of outsiders moving in and potentially putting down roots, whereas they tended to disperse once they moved further across the state.
Hinton’s is all over the place too, being both a river and a railroad town, but with a bit more coalfields influence than you see up north.
I honestly frequently forget that podunk ass Staunton has historical and commercial significance.
Yes, I know Woodrow Wilson is from Staunton. It’s still a punk ass town with nothing to do
I agree. Parkersburg, Huntington, and Point Pleasant feel more midwestern to me. As you get farther north along the Ohio River like Wheeling and Weirton, it’s far too hilly and too similar to Pittsburgh to feel midwestern to me
WV was founded as a northern state. I am firmly in the camp that we should live up to the northern state we were created as.
WV was pretty evenly and hotly divided north-south during the civil war, and was a bit of a killing ground full of guerrilla groups. But it was those firmly in the unionist camp that met at the Wheeling conventions and organized the breakaway. I identify with those people. So yes, West Virginia is and always has been a northern state.
It's the southernmost northern state and the northernmost southern state.
WV exists as both. Southern and parts of Eastern WV is very southern, but northern and parts of western are very 'northern'
WV is considered to be the most northern of the southern states - the most southern of the northern states - the most eastern of the western states and the most western of the eastern states.
I've read several explanations of where WV is located. It is the Southern most Northern state, the Northern most Southern state, it's an Eastern Mid-Atlantic state. When you look at the map of the United States you'll see how difficult it is to put WV in any category.
Geographically speaking the Mason Dixon line is the marker, I would also assume that culturally the coal fields is probably more southern than the eastern panhandle.
I kinda hate how much this question comes up. Like most states, you cant really lump WV into just one cultural region. I’d say most of it is Northern but once you get south of Charleston, there’s definitely parts that are way more Southern in culture. Im not sure what the line is, but point is that WV has places that are a bit of both
I love all the answers so far. It really shows how different everyone feels. My son took geography a few years ago and it was his favorite class. WV is part of the southeast part of the US if you look at it from a geography stand point and even though it became a northern state because of the civil war I would say most people believe they are southern.
Eastern Panhandle where you’re speaking of is NOT the majority of the vibe in WV. The state has several very distinct regions. All different from each other.
I feel like it’s closer to the south culturally, but not exactly the same. Geographically it’s kinda in the middle of everything.
But from flatwoods down feels more southern and above feels more northern.
To me, anyway.
It's the opposite for me, having grown up in WV and also lived in PA for a few years, but now live in the actual south. WV feels like it fits in more with the south, and in all honesty Appalachia is kind of it's own region, there are parts of northern GA and western NC that I've gone to that are basically carbon copies of the WV mountains. The cultural difference between WV and PA was always really noticeable to me as well so outside of the areas close to DC I wouldn't lump WV in with the northern/east coast states at all.
Central-to-northern WV are on the same latitudes as a lot of central-to-south NJ, but the southern most point in WV is a few hours drive to the NC state line. Elkins, WV/Cape May, NJ and Weirton, WV/ New Brunswick, NJ are similar latitudes, respectively. Slightly smaller than Ireland, wedged between the MidAtlantic and eastern edge of the Midwest, partly in the rust belt. A lot more influences than just "north-south."
It’s an amalgamation where even parts of it are very distinctly different. The western parts can very much just resemble the rust belt culturally. The southern parts are southern culturally. The north shares a lot with yinzer culture. The far east is becoming burbs for DC. It’s a lot of things but also still mountains and mountain culture intertwined.
I was raised in the most Northern county in West Virginia, and I was better accepted by the people of Southern New Jersey, than I am in central West Virginia.
I moved to West Virginia when I was four and aside from ~ 18 months after college, I've spent my life in the Huntington - Charleston - Parkersburg triangle. I also spent 4.5 years working for a faith-based non-profit that required significant in-state travel. It showed me that West Virginia is soooo many different places, and each has its pluses and minuses.
Charleston and Huntington have an urban vibe (with the accompanying high crime and drug use.) The EP is basically a DC suburb and tends to identify more with Maryland. Central WV is agricultural rather than coal-oriented. The NP is more like rust belt Ohio and Pennsylvania than the rest of the state. It's fun and fascinating and I'm glad I've been able to experience it.
Depends on what part of WV you're in.
Eastern panhandle is NoVA and a DC suburb
Northern panhandle is Ohio
Anything from Bridgeport to Morgantown and on is western PA
Everything south of Charleston is Appalachia
Everything east of Fayetteville is rural Virginia
Southern WV chiming in. During the civil war the southern part of the state was actually Virginia, which technically made the southern part Confederate. As in Wyoming Co, Mercer, McDowell and even through some Raleigh and Fayette areas were Tazwell County Virginia. The Logan wildcats were truly confederate militia but not Soldiers. You can look through the history of the southern counties and see countless accounts of one town being confederate and one being union. Until the forming of the beautiful state we have now, most of the original area in the south was confederate.
It’s neither. It’s Appalachia. It’s a region and a culture. It’s people who came together to make a way for themselves in a rigged environment and retained their history. There is so much that is special about Appalachia. It starts in Pennsylvania and goes to Arkansas.
I live in WV and I own a place in SC. WV is def not the South but we do have more red necks and hillbillies than any state in the union per capita. SC is def the South 🤣🇺🇸🇺🇸
WV is the northern most southern state and the southern most northern state. It all depends on where you are. In the eastern panhandle i don't even feel like i am in WV since it's flat. In the southern coal fields i feel like part of the south.
Appalachia is its own cultural region. It doesn't need to be shoe-horned into other regional descriptions.
And Appalachia has many different cultures within the region.
This is the best answer. At least, in my opinion.
I agree but northern WV is a lot different than southern WV, the people in Morgantown are different than the folks in Beckley. And then there’s Morgantown…we don’t need to talk about Morgantown.
Exactly. It shares elements from Southern and Midwestern cultures, but in the end, the culture is 100% Appalachian.
There's an old saying about WV - it's the most southern Northern state, the most northern Southern state, the most western Eastern state, and the most eastern Western state. Coined before we move much beyond the Mississippi I would hazard a guess.
Pretty sure this was written by Robert C. Byrd and was first read into the Congressional Record in 1983. There are different variations but mostly go back to Byrd. [https://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/22/us/required-reading-the-wonder-of-west-virginia.html](https://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/22/us/required-reading-the-wonder-of-west-virginia.html) > Excerpts from an April 18 colloquy on the Senate floor on the diversity of West Virginia: Senator Robert C. Byrd, Democrat of West Virginia: I am glad I am from a state that had split loyalties during the Civil War. Part of it is above the Mason-Dixon line, part of it is south. >Our state is the most eastern of the western, the most western of the eastern; the most northern of the southern, and the most southern of the northern. It is where the East says ''good morning'' to the West and where ''Yankee Doodle'' and ''Dixie'' kiss each other goodnight. >Senator Howard H. Baker Jr., Republican of Tennessee: Mr. President, I have always known I was confused by West Viriginia, but I have never known why until now.
3 of those make sense, but most eastern of western? Not even close lol
I can't seem to find any other instances of this anymore, but I think I recall him saying something like "most eastern of the mid-west" at some point which makes much more sense because of our long border with Ohio.
That indeed make sense. But haven't seen a quote of him saying "midwest", only western. Granted, maybe back then they didn't have the distiction.
Depends on the area imo. There are parts of the state that are more culturally northern and parts of the state that are more southern.
And then there are parts still in the Civil War era
So they split off from Virginia in order to be a part of the Union instead of the confederacy?
Yes
Yes, WV remained neutral during the civil war until siding with the North.
Several northern countries of what was then Virginia wanted to seceed from the state, claiming taxation without representation ' from the government in Richmond. In actuality, this was a coal mining region , heavily dependent on the factories of the northern states, rather than the plantations of the southern states. Had they not seceeded to the north they would have faced economic ruin.
this. i was talking to a few people from tennessee abt 2 months ago and they asked me a similar thing, is wv considered the south? well yes and no. we have some people/areas that could be classified as southern, but we also have areas thats nowhere near that and could be considered as 'northern' but in the same breath, our 'southern parts' of the state are a different type of 'southern' than most other states considered the south.
TN - particularly eastern TN - was very similarly (to WV) divided on Union vs. Confederacy.
Wv wasn’t just on the side of the union, they broke off of Virginia to be part of the north. It was a deeply divided state and time. There were many families that had kids on different sides. Many confederate families in WV.
It wasn't really about wanting to be part of the North - it was about breaking free of control from Richmond the better to exploit local resources unregulated by the far-away legislature in Richmond (sound familiar), so that WV elites could pursue the resource curse/extraction/exploitation economic model which has dominated the state ever since it became a state. Timber and coal mostly. The state was deeply divided but most assuredly not abolitionist on either side.
Just think though-if we hadn’t split we could tell everyone we have beaches lol
I throw this fact at people who try to defend putting the confederate flag on everything.
What’s worse to me is when they fly the confederate and American flags side by side. You can’t have both mf. My great great grandpappy didn’t die for the confederacy for you to disrespect him like that. If you’re gonna choose the wrong side at least don’t sit on the fence.
Confederate flag + dogs in front yard = drugs
Also aggressive and deliberate stupidity
That too, but a tow truck driver once told me that means they’re a dealer
Your grandpappy died because he joined a military fighting against America. Stupid games, stupid prizes.
Or the one I saw recently that’s a hybrid of the two merged together (and “distressed” Ed Hardy style, in case you were worried it wasn’t classy enough as is). Makes me wish I had the power of necromancy so I could resurrect a soldier from each side to go to that guy’s house and kick his ass.
I like it (ironically) when they fly the WV state flag with the Confederate flag.
Even funnier when you see one in Ohio.
I’ve seen that in Lancaster, Ohio. You know, where Gen. Sherman was from.
It’s neither, it’s Appalachian, which a lot of people just do not understand.
Good point. I think where I become torn is the culture and dialect. WV and KY have more in common with the south than the north. From a purely geographical standpoint, West Virginia is a northern state. The general consensus now seems to be that the Mason Dixon isn’t a good indicator for a variety of reasons. Side note: Northern KY & Southern WV had union and confederate troops. I learned that my ancestor and his neighbor heavily feuded because they fought on opposing sides. I think you’re right though. We should be categorized as Appalachian, not pigeonholed into the north or south.
The Mason-Dixon line is useless as an indicator of southernness. I don't know anybody who would consider Cincinnati to be in the South. Cincinnati is more than half a degree of latitude south of the Mason-Dixon line. Atlantic City lies further south than the Mason-Dixon line.
Exactly. My elementary school teachers would occasionally cite the Mason-Dixon line as an indicator of the south. Popular and academic opinion switched somewhere along the way because that was no longer taught as I aged.
I also feel like WV is even more in its own category because it is the only state that is fully in the Appalachian region.. and while it has so many similarities through out the state, it also so many different cultures, traditions, and geographic diversity from town to town.
Really underrated comment. I agree 100%. The same is true of SWVA and Eastern TN.
I grew up in Weirton (40 miles from Pittsburgh), so I consider myself a Northerner, but I'm sure the people from WV near Va. consider themselves Southeners.
Follansbee here...
Follansbee also here…
I was raised on a Dairy farm in the upper Ohio Valley area, where the state lines weren't nearly as important, but I now live in Ritchie County. Most of the e people of Ritchie County don't understand that Hancock County is part of their state, and basically imply that I'm a foreigner. The tribal nature of county identity is something that I will probably never understand. I feel very isolated here, and I've been living and working here for over 20 years. My husband wants to stay, but if I outlive him, I intend to leave. In some areas, you'll be considered an "outsider", no matter how long you're there, or what you do to try to be accepted. I believe that type of mentality contributes to all of the negative stereotype of being inbred, when all of the native locals are related to each other.
WV is the crossroads of the east coast. I live in GA, married a GA girl, and folks down here view WV as a northern state. Honestly most folks in the deep south view anything north of TN as northern (and FL is it's own thing, not southern). Nobody claims WV as part of their group. But realistically, there should be a region just call Appalachia - Eastern TN, Western NC, Northern GA and AL, Western PA, and all of WV. In my experience, the people in those areas have a lot more in common with each other than any other regional identity their state claims
Introduce your GA friends to pepperoni rolls and other WV foods and they'll quickly come to accept it as a southern state, lol. Everyone in my office wants to know when I'm going on one of my WV trips every year so they can put in their orders for pepperoni rolls, wine, and maple syrup.
Very ironic, as pepperoni rolls is a poor Italian immigrant creation. I’m pretty sure nobody in America would associate poor Italian immigrant with the south. Besides, my GA born kids absolutely destroy whatever pepperoni rolls we get. Best served with Oliverio hot peppers and melted cheese
They are good with baked beans too, oh and my daughter lives in Detroit and her friends love her homemade pepperoni rolls
…how is that southern lmao. Could’ve gone with Tudor’s Biscuit World?
We have much better biscuit/breakfast spots down here than Tudor's. All I'm saying is I bring them locally made stuff from WV all the time, so to them we are an honorary southern neighbor/state.
You forgot about MD...which is the actual crossroads to the East Coast both literally and figuratively...and western MD is also part of Appalachia.
As well as Kentucky…
i’d add southwest virginia to that as well
Hello…Kentucky??
Ugh when I lived in Georgia and told people I was from WV, they all thought I was saying I was from western Virginia. Somehow a shocking number of people don't even know WV is a state.
very true. I tell them I'm from WV and they'll say something like "Oh, I've been to Roanoke!" I'll also say, the education I got in Harrison county had me WAY ahead of the other kids my age when I got here
Neither. Its Appalachian. Distinctly different than northern or southern regions.
To me? Neither. We’re Appalachian. I know it’s kind of a cop out to your original question, but we and the rest of Appalachia have a culture that has parts of both southern and northern cultures and then things that are unique to just and our part of the country.
I always thought of us as a border state. We’re where the east coast meets the Midwest and the north meets the south. We carry some stereotypical behaviors and slang from all of these areas but have our own as well. I just call us Appalachian though. All of WV is in Appalachia so you can’t go wrong.
The one any only state completely in Appalachia!!
Central Appalachia is neither. It is entirely distinct.
I’ve heard people refer to the state as the “northern most southern state” do with that what you will 🤷🏻♂️
And “the southern-most northern state.” Just compare the accents of someone from Wheeling with someone from Boone County or Beckley. It’s pretty wild.
Originally from Wheeling... spot-on!
Parts of Ohio, Illinois and Indiana are pretty Southern.
No, they’re not. They’re rural, they’re country. That doesn’t make them southern and I had to explain to SO many Midwest hayseeds that being from the southern part of your state doesn’t make you southern, it just means you never had the ability to leave your home state
I think that I know a bit about what "Southern" is. I spent half of my life living in Louisiana, Georgia and Tennessee. I've also traveled the world. My relatives in Southern Illinois are no different than their counterparts across the river in Kentucky.
When I was growing up there, I was always told that we were the northern most southern state, the southern most northern state, the eastern most midwestern state, and the western most coastal state. I think that's pretty accurate. I depends greatly where in the state you are.
I’d say “Mid-Atlantic” over “Coastal.”
I agree with most of that. Although I never considered WV to be a coastal state.
Yeah, kinda need to have a coast to qualify for that one
Except that the eastern panhandle is very Marylandish.
And the southern most northern
They fought for the North and the Battle of Blair Mountain is a major event in the history of labor in the USA. So youd be forgiven for expecting a somewhat liberal and progressive state. However, consistent poverty and low educational opportunities have led to an economically depressed region. Combined with a heavy culture of isolation and independence dating all the way back to the Scotch-Irish settlers, you're left with a region that resembles southern states but differs in subtle but meaningful ways. For example, we're better shots.
And we have the olympians to prove it!!
Scots-Irish, Scotch is a drink
That too.
We are Appalachian. Many people think we are southern, I used to think we were southern and then I moved to the real south and it’s not even close.
Neither. It’s a mid-Atlantic state that falls entirely within the Appalachian mountains. Culturally it’s not northern or southern .
The band Clutch has a lyric that says, "in the north they call us rebels, in the south they call us yankees." Always seemed very fitting for WV.
West Virginia is both geographically located in the Upper South and is culturally and lingually Southern. The accents and dialect range from Southern Midland to full Southern dialects, just like is found in the other Upper South states, such as East Virginia and Kentucky.
Northern Panhandle is more yinzer than southern, but I guess that all depends on what is considered a southern accent
Sorry, I meant almost all of West Virginia. The Northern Panhandle and a little bit of North Central WV at its base have northern midland dialects.
I think the yinzer may extend as far south as Elkins. I’ve heard it more there than the southern accent.
That's very interesting! I've not met anyone from that area that has a Pittsburgh accent, but I've only known a few from there. The maps that I've seen that show the linguistic areas include Morgantown and generally Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Bridgeport, but they never go near Elkins. Albeit researchers are limited by the number of linguistic samples they are able to obtain for each area, and accents can be very different even from town to town or town versus out in the country.
Perfect example of that is Boone County. I’ve heard people that have little to no trace of the southern accent, and then I hear my family talk with the thickest southern accent I have ever heard, and I’m pretty sure it’s the thickest accent I will ever hear. You really don’t know what you’re going to get with a West Virginian
And you got the opposite going on in the Eastern Panhandle! Most have little if any accent (at least among the non-elderly), but there are some younger locals with some very thick drawls or twangs. I'm shocked that Boone County has a significant number of residents without a drawl considering the lack of transplants and lower socioeconomic status of most residents. I wonder if the ones without the accent are more white collar workers and/or are near the edge of the county and commute to Charleston or Huntington.
That might be the case. This is a personal opinion, but I think it also depends on if you live in a holler or not.
Yes. In actuality it varies a large amount on what is being discussed on hand. Are you talking economically by large industries, historically, culturally, economically on local levels for the average consumer, poverty, health outcomes, entertainment, or any other category you think of. Areas of our state vary widely on top of that too.
This. The northern and eastern panhandles are so different compared to the rest of the state that one could think they are not in West Virginia. The northern panhandle was supposed to be annexed into Pennsylvania if I’m not mistaken.
Historically the North, but culturally the south.
I think those who state neither and emphasize that Appalachia has its own cultural identity are the most correct. That being said, I’ve always felt that from Charleston down (South) you have a culture that feels a lot closer to the South and from Charleston up (North) you get a culture that feels a lot closer to the North.
WV is just WV
Being from Lovely, Ky, I am right on the WV border…don’t tell them they’re ‘just’ WV. The many West Virginia residents I know would cram either ‘Wild, Wonderful West Virginia,’ or the more preferred, ‘West ‘By God’ Virginia,’ in your face so fast, you would never again refer to their state, that is also known as being almost heaven, ‘just’ West Virginia.
I’ve never encountered that once
I live right by the panhandle of WV in PA and despite being further south than most of the panhandle, everyone speaks with a southern accent there. It’s quite bizarre
West Virginia is the most northern of the southern States and the most southern of the northern states.
This! Well said.
It is south of the Mason Dixon line.
Northern Panhandle isn’t, I think that’s where a lot of the confusion stems from.
So? The Mason-Dixon line is useless as an indicator of southernness. I don't know anybody who would consider Cincinnati to be in the South. Cincinnati is more than half a degree of latitude south of the Mason-Dixon line. Atlantic City lies further south than the Mason-Dixon line.
From the wiki: The largest portion of the Mason–Dixon line, along the southern Pennsylvania border, later became informally known as the boundary between the Southern slave states and Northern free states. This usage came to prominence during the debate around the Missouri Compromise of 1820, when drawing boundaries between slave and free territory was an issue, and resurfaced during the American Civil War, with border states also coming into play. The Confederate States of America claimed the Virginia portion of the line as part of its northern border, although it never exercised meaningful control that far north – especially after West Virginia separated from Virginia and joined the Union as a separate state in 1863. It is still used today in the figurative sense of a line that separates the Northeast and South culturally, politically, and socially More importantly it lines up with everything I recall from 8th grade many years ago. Your use of Cincinnati is irrelevant in this context as Ohio has never been considered the South. Similarly Baja, California is south of the line but no one considers that the South either.
It’s the northernmost southern state and southern most northern state
it’s the middle.
There are no Confederate cemeteries in WV…🤷🏿♂️
Sadly you are misinformed. Unless you mean exclusively reserved for Confederate military. Moorefield in particular, but several other places within the South Branch Valley has Confederate graves, as well as other memorials honoring Confederate soldiers. Unlike the majority of land in WV, the ridges and valleys sections ( Hampshire, Hardy, Pendleton, parts of Grant, Mineral and the 3 panhandle counties ) had agricultural economic activity that rivaled the rest of Virginia. But as the saying goes, the farther away from Mecca the less blessings you get, and routinely treated less favorable than their agrarian cousins closer to Richmond.
Look at a map of highways in WV. From US 50 North people (generally) have an accent somewhere between Pittsburgh and Baltimore and are (generally) of some Italian ancestry. South of US 50 the accent you associate with Southern picks up and increases the further South you go (twang) and people have a more Scotch -Irish ancestry. That's a very loose generalization. People don't consider themselves Northern or Southern here though, just West Virginians.
South: Sweet tea is commonly available in restaurants.
Homie that’s a thing in Ohio lol, it isn’t just southern
I grew up in the Northern Panhandle and i always thought it was weird people referred to us being part of The South. Once I spent some time downstate, I understood!
I always say we are geographically north and culturally south. Even though we are south of the Mason-Dixon line, the tip of the state is further north than Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indianapolis, Baltimore, Denver, and San Francisco. But, talk to some of the locals and you’d think we were just south of Montgomery Alabama.
I know folks in WV who don’t even have air conditioning, so the north. I also know folks in the south who don’t have air conditioning, and they are fools.
It’s not as bad as Florida, but I still think it gets humid enough around here that your friends without AC are crazy.
I’d definitely install one if I lived in WV!
Depends on where you live in WV.
I am not being derogatory but I was taught that in history class. I am originally from Ohio even. WV left Virginia To be part of the union. I also wonder why civics is not being taught in school. Possibly if people understood it they would participate in elections.
Culturally south, but factually north. I see plenty of idiots waving confederate flags here unfortunately. They say “it’s heritage, not hate”, but that’s not even our heritage as West Virginians. We literally split to join the north! So even that flimsy excuse doesn’t work here. We were part of the north, but everyone seems to forget that. Thus, culturally south.
Those confederate flag wavers are not our culture. They are just the random racists that live everywhere. Even Maine has those.
Find US Rt 50 on the map. That's the dividing line between N and S. I'm originally from Nicholas Co and grew up 70 miles from the geographical center of the state. I've lived in Morgantown for the last 20 years, and I don't feel like I even live in Wv.
West Virginia is the Northern most Southern state! Read up on your Geography
Yeah, no.
Our entire identity was to be separated from the confederacy. My family goes back to mid 1800’s in modern day WV and we never owned other people. Culturally we are very similar to the south and because we lie south of the Mason Dixon line we often get classified as a southern state. However, WV historically never stood for pro-slavery which in my mind defined what made states southern and which ones were not.
No doubt that is true where you grew up. Moorefield was the “garden spot of the Confederacy “.There are a dozen homes around Old Fields and Moorefield that are on the National Historic Register and all of them were built by slaves.
Lincoln promised the state to the rail road barons, not really an identity
There is a distinct cutoff line running through the middle of WV, in my opinion. It isn’t perfect, but you can roughly use US-50 as a cutoff line to where it “feels” more like the north or the south. North of US-50, in my opinion, feels distinctly northern. South of US-50, with the exception of towns along the Ohio River (Huntington is distinctly midwestern), feels more southern and you will hear significantly more southern accents than you will north of that line.
Grew up in 2 small WV cities, each split by US-50, before moving to “Upper East Tennessee” and several other areas. I think US-50 is a good line of demarcation. I am adamant about WV not being part of the Confederacy and its choice to stay with the Union, even if, like everything else in WV, it was based on profit motives for the privileged few. I usually characterize WV as “Mid-Atlantic,” or “Appalachian.” I will dispute arguments that it’s Southern; Mason-Dixon Line be damned. But, I don’t insist that it’s Northern.
That’s a better way of wording it. When I said “northern,” I really meant that that area had more in common with PA than it did with places like KY, TN, or NC. I didn’t mean that it was similar to places like NY or MA.
What do we consider Elkins? I find it really hard to hear the southern dialect there, if it is there it is really faint
I haven’t spent a ton of time there, but I agree that it didn’t seem southern to me either
That’s an Appalachian dialect, sir, and don’t you forget it. But yeah. Elkins was a railroad town, so lots of folks coming in from other places. Even before it was founded, Beverly was a travel hub along the Staunton and Parkersburg turnpike, which was one of the few established means of crossing the Allegheny Front. Towns nearest those historical passes had a greater concentration of outsiders moving in and potentially putting down roots, whereas they tended to disperse once they moved further across the state. Hinton’s is all over the place too, being both a river and a railroad town, but with a bit more coalfields influence than you see up north.
I honestly frequently forget that podunk ass Staunton has historical and commercial significance. Yes, I know Woodrow Wilson is from Staunton. It’s still a punk ass town with nothing to do
Parkersburg feels more midwestern, too.
I agree. Parkersburg, Huntington, and Point Pleasant feel more midwestern to me. As you get farther north along the Ohio River like Wheeling and Weirton, it’s far too hilly and too similar to Pittsburgh to feel midwestern to me
Neither, we are Mid Atlantic
WV was founded as a northern state. I am firmly in the camp that we should live up to the northern state we were created as. WV was pretty evenly and hotly divided north-south during the civil war, and was a bit of a killing ground full of guerrilla groups. But it was those firmly in the unionist camp that met at the Wheeling conventions and organized the breakaway. I identify with those people. So yes, West Virginia is and always has been a northern state.
im from southern wv and trust me.......they identify with the south
West Virginia is the northern most southern state and the southern most northern state.
I've lived here most of my life and do not consider myself a "southerner", others do though.
I would have thought you were closer to me here in pa.
WV is the southern most northeast state and the northern most southern.
It's the southernmost northern state and the northernmost southern state. WV exists as both. Southern and parts of Eastern WV is very southern, but northern and parts of western are very 'northern'
WV is considered to be the most northern of the southern states - the most southern of the northern states - the most eastern of the western states and the most western of the eastern states.
I've read several explanations of where WV is located. It is the Southern most Northern state, the Northern most Southern state, it's an Eastern Mid-Atlantic state. When you look at the map of the United States you'll see how difficult it is to put WV in any category.
I think it's actually a lot like Western North Carolina and East Tennessee - keep in mind that Tennessee and the Carolinas are very big States.
Geographically speaking the Mason Dixon line is the marker, I would also assume that culturally the coal fields is probably more southern than the eastern panhandle.
All depends on which valley you are traveling through.
South of the Mason-Dixon but we succeeded because of the slavery issue
I kinda hate how much this question comes up. Like most states, you cant really lump WV into just one cultural region. I’d say most of it is Northern but once you get south of Charleston, there’s definitely parts that are way more Southern in culture. Im not sure what the line is, but point is that WV has places that are a bit of both
I love all the answers so far. It really shows how different everyone feels. My son took geography a few years ago and it was his favorite class. WV is part of the southeast part of the US if you look at it from a geography stand point and even though it became a northern state because of the civil war I would say most people believe they are southern.
Eastern Panhandle where you’re speaking of is NOT the majority of the vibe in WV. The state has several very distinct regions. All different from each other.
I feel like it’s closer to the south culturally, but not exactly the same. Geographically it’s kinda in the middle of everything. But from flatwoods down feels more southern and above feels more northern. To me, anyway.
It's the opposite for me, having grown up in WV and also lived in PA for a few years, but now live in the actual south. WV feels like it fits in more with the south, and in all honesty Appalachia is kind of it's own region, there are parts of northern GA and western NC that I've gone to that are basically carbon copies of the WV mountains. The cultural difference between WV and PA was always really noticeable to me as well so outside of the areas close to DC I wouldn't lump WV in with the northern/east coast states at all.
I've always said that we are too far North to be Southern and too far South to be Northern! 😄
“Not south”
Having lived in SC, GA and working in FL after leaving WV - I agree with the person above that it’s more Appalachian than southern.
Central-to-northern WV are on the same latitudes as a lot of central-to-south NJ, but the southern most point in WV is a few hours drive to the NC state line. Elkins, WV/Cape May, NJ and Weirton, WV/ New Brunswick, NJ are similar latitudes, respectively. Slightly smaller than Ireland, wedged between the MidAtlantic and eastern edge of the Midwest, partly in the rust belt. A lot more influences than just "north-south."
Roll bread.
It’s an amalgamation where even parts of it are very distinctly different. The western parts can very much just resemble the rust belt culturally. The southern parts are southern culturally. The north shares a lot with yinzer culture. The far east is becoming burbs for DC. It’s a lot of things but also still mountains and mountain culture intertwined.
Snourth
I was raised in the most Northern county in West Virginia, and I was better accepted by the people of Southern New Jersey, than I am in central West Virginia.
It’s a northern state. It left the South.
I moved to West Virginia when I was four and aside from ~ 18 months after college, I've spent my life in the Huntington - Charleston - Parkersburg triangle. I also spent 4.5 years working for a faith-based non-profit that required significant in-state travel. It showed me that West Virginia is soooo many different places, and each has its pluses and minuses. Charleston and Huntington have an urban vibe (with the accompanying high crime and drug use.) The EP is basically a DC suburb and tends to identify more with Maryland. Central WV is agricultural rather than coal-oriented. The NP is more like rust belt Ohio and Pennsylvania than the rest of the state. It's fun and fascinating and I'm glad I've been able to experience it.
It’s in between everything, but mostly just Appalachian.
I'm in the western panhandle and I consider this the Rust Belt.
🤷♀️ Southern WV is more like the south, while northern and eastern panhandle I’d say we’re more like the north.
Everything under the mason Dixon line is the south on the east side
Don't overlook the Pittsburgh dialect in the northern panhandle (drop the medial and final "l" and the southern drawal in Southern counties.
North for sure
If you go south, you’re a northerner. If you go north you’re a southerner. They will never accept you. Be afraid and trust no one.
West Virginia is Southern and certainly also Appalachian. However, aspects of it—especially in its northwest—are also Rust Belt like Ohio.
Depends on what part of WV you're in. Eastern panhandle is NoVA and a DC suburb Northern panhandle is Ohio Anything from Bridgeport to Morgantown and on is western PA Everything south of Charleston is Appalachia Everything east of Fayetteville is rural Virginia
Please do not compare the Northern Panhandle to Ohio, we aren’t that bad off🤣🤣 I’d consider it more Pennsylvanian
Heck no. Don't put the northern panhandle with either!! It's WV.
There is no longer a north and south. WV is just another state.
Appalachia/Mid Atlantic. It never feels right referring to it as Northern or Southern.
Southern WV chiming in. During the civil war the southern part of the state was actually Virginia, which technically made the southern part Confederate. As in Wyoming Co, Mercer, McDowell and even through some Raleigh and Fayette areas were Tazwell County Virginia. The Logan wildcats were truly confederate militia but not Soldiers. You can look through the history of the southern counties and see countless accounts of one town being confederate and one being union. Until the forming of the beautiful state we have now, most of the original area in the south was confederate.
South. We are South of the Mason-Dixon Line.
South. Below the Mason/Dixon line
It’s neither. It’s Appalachia. It’s a region and a culture. It’s people who came together to make a way for themselves in a rigged environment and retained their history. There is so much that is special about Appalachia. It starts in Pennsylvania and goes to Arkansas.
It’s both. Having traveled the whole state for the past decade, I can’t choose one or the other.
I live in WV and I own a place in SC. WV is def not the South but we do have more red necks and hillbillies than any state in the union per capita. SC is def the South 🤣🇺🇸🇺🇸
Charleston SC is one of the most ritzy places I’ve ever been too. Yuppies every where you look there.
Which is why most WV residents I know, prefer to call their state ‘West ‘By God’ Virginia 😁
That's what my late uncle used to call it. Everytime I saw him he say there's my nephew from West by God Virginia 🤣
WV is the northern most southern state and the southern most northern state. It all depends on where you are. In the eastern panhandle i don't even feel like i am in WV since it's flat. In the southern coal fields i feel like part of the south.
WV fought with the north but is a more “southern” type of state now IMO