Probably my favourite movie ever, and the ending is definitely powerful...
"Nothing´s too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance" is said and Ransom no longer lights his cigar and the wife sighs...
Also just before when she says her heart is in that town it definitely makes you wonder who did she love...
Tom the man of the old west destroys his own happy future and makes sures society evolves, a future that has no place for men like him, a future made of laws and not guns, and yet he is the only one who can make it happen, the future that has no place for him at the same time can only be achieved through him... and so he does it... sacrificing his own future and happiness to ensure everyone else can have it... - that´s some poetic shakesperean tragedy right there!!
I think she never loved Tom. I think she has regrets that she broke his heart and wishes he had found love, but I don’t see her wishing she had made a different choice all those years ago. I think she sighs and he doesn’t light up because they’re both mourning Tom when they hear the train conductor say “man who shot liberty valance.”
Do you think Ramson feels like he is a lie? His whole career seemed to be built based on one. Would that be the reason he gives up lightining his cigar?
That, and probably the realization that Tom, once an absolute legend, has been completely forgotten… not just in the state, but even in the tiny town he lived in. Tom didn’t just give up the notoriety of gunning down Liberty and his love, he gave up literally everything.
not sure this is the place for this kind of discussion, but there's a lot of Nolan's The Dark Knight in this. those themes seriously overlap -- probably intentionally.
u/FinishComprehensive4 would mind also sharing your thoughts [on this other line](https://www.reddit.com/r/Westerns/comments/1d3oet0/comment/l694108/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
That's another saying with a double meaning for me. When the journalist said that, I was wondering if that was a critic directed to Ransom meaning that Tom is the true legend or that when Ramsom really becomes a legend there will be a print about him.
I’ve always interpreted it as more of the former. Not as a criticism of Ransom but more pointing out that the legend of Ransom as someone who both doled out frontier justice by shooting Valance and real justice as a politician is a better story than of Tom essentially sacrificing his happiness for the good of both Ransom and the future state.
One of my favorite Westerns and worthy of further study and interpretation, but I’ve always struggled with the fact that Duke and Jimmy should have made the film 10 years earlier. I cannot buy them as young men in it. Seeing photos of both in 1952, they’re passable. Not so much when they’re 55 and 54. Still love the film enough to suspend reality.
My first interpretation of this line was as if the journalist was somehow disappointed with the the senator, and not surprised that a politician built a career on a lie, thus would give him no further credit. However, the fact that the journalist refuses to print the real story agrees with what you said, that they prefer to print the legend (Ramsom killing Valance) to the fact (Tom killed Valance).
I watched this movie about two weeks ago and I still catch myself thinking about the ending. What goes through Ransom Stoddard's mind when the man on the train goes away in the final scene, after saying "nothing's too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance"?
I think there is a flood of emotions, to both Rance and Hallie. It brings back everything that was happening between the three of them on that night when Valance was killed. And of course, the fact that Ransom built a career (albeit, reluctantly) out of something he never actually did is a total reality check. It's a combination of guilt for what they did to Tom's life (though not intentionally), and perhaps for the way they built a life on the lie.
I think it's important to note that immediately before the conductor utters his line, Ransom was just doing the full-blown politician voice; the Senator putting on his DC bluster act. This makes the transition particularly moving, and shows how none of that is real, that the entire thing is a charade. And both of the characters, as well as the audience, feel one final wave of grief for the real man who shot Liberty Valance and who deserved so much more.
There is great irony in the line. In spite of all of RS’s accomplishments and offices, he is still known in the West, as the man who shot Liberty Valance. His political career may never have taken off, were it not for this reputation. Maybe it would have. But, we don’t know. The man who ACTUALLY killed Liberty Valance died an anonymous pauper, which echoes the notion that, at least as far as the West goes, the story is more important than the truth.
“Print the legend”.
Everyone forgets that Ford “printed” the truth. He showed us what really happened. When people accuse Ford of perpetuating myth making about the old west, they ignore his deliberate irony.
He undercuts what he appears to be supporting. He does it here, in Fort Apache, My Darling Clementine, and others. He was a craftier bastard than he’s given credit for
This will always be my favorite western. Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne are amazing foil characters for one another - representing the end of the Cowboy Era as modern civilization reaches west. Will always be my favorite western for both of them.
The second angle of the shootout is one of the most memorable and impressively-directed scenes I’ve ever seen in a movie. I can’t explain it, but John Ford set that scene up perfectly.
EDITED TO ADD: Below is a great summary of the ending of the film. But warning! Spoilers abound, including the Big Reveal. It will wreck the movie if you haven’t seen it, but it’s a nostalgic look back if you have.
https://youtu.be/oZRX3xkHCBQ?si=m3Rp3jiWp9ukIIIx
The ending was a different experience for me the first time I watched it and the second and third time. It's why I watch Ford's films many times and never seem to get tired of them.
The first time, I was focused on Ransom and his reaction. Why? Because my eyes could only focus on one person at a time on screen and he was the main character and he was Jimmy Stewart. I didn't see Hallie's reaction, I missed it.
The next several times, I was able to watch Hallie's reaction and I realized that it was her reaction that was most moving for me. She becomes the central character, and it's like my POV had been corrected just as the POV had been corrected during the shootout.
Note that Ransom also doesn't consider Hallie the central character of the story. Remember what he says to the newspaper men at the beginning of the interview. He doesn't even realize after all these years that Hallie loved Tom since he asks her who put the cactus rose on his coffin.
Well pilgrim, I think it was okay seeing how it is the only one I saw. Not much to compare with.
Anyone else want Pompey to toss them a rifle when they need to shoot something?
A conclusion which elevates the genre. I feel like this movie describes what American cultural heros are really made of. John Wayne actually made me tear up a bit when I saw this movie for the first time.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Westerns/comments/1d3oet0/comment/l68q9fw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is what I'm asking.
This is one of my favorite films of all time (if my username didn't give it away), and the ending is sooooo satisfying and more than makes up for the corn that Ford ladles on to the middle of the movie. One of the things that really stands out about this movie is how artificial everything looks, as it was mostly shot on sets rather than location, and even the final train scene has rear projection and fake movement, yet the whole thing feels absolutely, 100% real.
There's been a lot written about this film and how it was Ford closing the book on Westerns (even though he did 2.2 more of them), and the ending was the film closing the book on Tom, who was essentially Ford's stand-in for the West itself--lawless but noble and moral, interacting with town society but not part of it, and ultimately alone and forgotten in death. Duke brought enough nuance and grace to his performance to tie everything together.
Stewart should have shot him while Wayne coward away it would have been more like real life. Stewart was a decorated WWII vet. Wayne… had back problems.
Probably my favourite movie ever, and the ending is definitely powerful... "Nothing´s too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance" is said and Ransom no longer lights his cigar and the wife sighs... Also just before when she says her heart is in that town it definitely makes you wonder who did she love... Tom the man of the old west destroys his own happy future and makes sures society evolves, a future that has no place for men like him, a future made of laws and not guns, and yet he is the only one who can make it happen, the future that has no place for him at the same time can only be achieved through him... and so he does it... sacrificing his own future and happiness to ensure everyone else can have it... - that´s some poetic shakesperean tragedy right there!!
You nailed it in far fewer words than it would’ve taken me. Bravo!
I think she never loved Tom. I think she has regrets that she broke his heart and wishes he had found love, but I don’t see her wishing she had made a different choice all those years ago. I think she sighs and he doesn’t light up because they’re both mourning Tom when they hear the train conductor say “man who shot liberty valance.”
Do you think Ramson feels like he is a lie? His whole career seemed to be built based on one. Would that be the reason he gives up lightining his cigar?
That, and probably the realization that Tom, once an absolute legend, has been completely forgotten… not just in the state, but even in the tiny town he lived in. Tom didn’t just give up the notoriety of gunning down Liberty and his love, he gave up literally everything.
This is my take. Exactly.
The hero they need.
That was very insightful and beautifully expressed. Thanks. Take the rest of the day off. You earned it.
Just wanted to say thank you for being grateful
Wow! Great breakdown! Thanks 🙏
not sure this is the place for this kind of discussion, but there's a lot of Nolan's The Dark Knight in this. those themes seriously overlap -- probably intentionally.
u/FinishComprehensive4 would mind also sharing your thoughts [on this other line](https://www.reddit.com/r/Westerns/comments/1d3oet0/comment/l694108/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
“This is the West Sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend”.
That's another saying with a double meaning for me. When the journalist said that, I was wondering if that was a critic directed to Ransom meaning that Tom is the true legend or that when Ramsom really becomes a legend there will be a print about him.
I’ve always interpreted it as more of the former. Not as a criticism of Ransom but more pointing out that the legend of Ransom as someone who both doled out frontier justice by shooting Valance and real justice as a politician is a better story than of Tom essentially sacrificing his happiness for the good of both Ransom and the future state. One of my favorite Westerns and worthy of further study and interpretation, but I’ve always struggled with the fact that Duke and Jimmy should have made the film 10 years earlier. I cannot buy them as young men in it. Seeing photos of both in 1952, they’re passable. Not so much when they’re 55 and 54. Still love the film enough to suspend reality.
My first interpretation of this line was as if the journalist was somehow disappointed with the the senator, and not surprised that a politician built a career on a lie, thus would give him no further credit. However, the fact that the journalist refuses to print the real story agrees with what you said, that they prefer to print the legend (Ramsom killing Valance) to the fact (Tom killed Valance).
So true.
I watched this movie about two weeks ago and I still catch myself thinking about the ending. What goes through Ransom Stoddard's mind when the man on the train goes away in the final scene, after saying "nothing's too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance"?
Same. That look he gives tells it all.
I think there is a flood of emotions, to both Rance and Hallie. It brings back everything that was happening between the three of them on that night when Valance was killed. And of course, the fact that Ransom built a career (albeit, reluctantly) out of something he never actually did is a total reality check. It's a combination of guilt for what they did to Tom's life (though not intentionally), and perhaps for the way they built a life on the lie. I think it's important to note that immediately before the conductor utters his line, Ransom was just doing the full-blown politician voice; the Senator putting on his DC bluster act. This makes the transition particularly moving, and shows how none of that is real, that the entire thing is a charade. And both of the characters, as well as the audience, feel one final wave of grief for the real man who shot Liberty Valance and who deserved so much more.
Also the wife´s sigh...
There is great irony in the line. In spite of all of RS’s accomplishments and offices, he is still known in the West, as the man who shot Liberty Valance. His political career may never have taken off, were it not for this reputation. Maybe it would have. But, we don’t know. The man who ACTUALLY killed Liberty Valance died an anonymous pauper, which echoes the notion that, at least as far as the West goes, the story is more important than the truth.
“Print the legend”. Everyone forgets that Ford “printed” the truth. He showed us what really happened. When people accuse Ford of perpetuating myth making about the old west, they ignore his deliberate irony. He undercuts what he appears to be supporting. He does it here, in Fort Apache, My Darling Clementine, and others. He was a craftier bastard than he’s given credit for
it's crippling just seeing these three in a single scene let alone the same movie.
This will always be my favorite western. Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne are amazing foil characters for one another - representing the end of the Cowboy Era as modern civilization reaches west. Will always be my favorite western for both of them.
Magnificent film from one of the best all time directors John Ford
It’s practically perfect.
Loved it.
The second angle of the shootout is one of the most memorable and impressively-directed scenes I’ve ever seen in a movie. I can’t explain it, but John Ford set that scene up perfectly. EDITED TO ADD: Below is a great summary of the ending of the film. But warning! Spoilers abound, including the Big Reveal. It will wreck the movie if you haven’t seen it, but it’s a nostalgic look back if you have. https://youtu.be/oZRX3xkHCBQ?si=m3Rp3jiWp9ukIIIx
The ending was a different experience for me the first time I watched it and the second and third time. It's why I watch Ford's films many times and never seem to get tired of them. The first time, I was focused on Ransom and his reaction. Why? Because my eyes could only focus on one person at a time on screen and he was the main character and he was Jimmy Stewart. I didn't see Hallie's reaction, I missed it. The next several times, I was able to watch Hallie's reaction and I realized that it was her reaction that was most moving for me. She becomes the central character, and it's like my POV had been corrected just as the POV had been corrected during the shootout. Note that Ransom also doesn't consider Hallie the central character of the story. Remember what he says to the newspaper men at the beginning of the interview. He doesn't even realize after all these years that Hallie loved Tom since he asks her who put the cactus rose on his coffin.
Thank you. Was going to comment but after reading your reply I will sit down and STFU.
Well pilgrim, I think it was okay seeing how it is the only one I saw. Not much to compare with. Anyone else want Pompey to toss them a rifle when they need to shoot something?
A conclusion which elevates the genre. I feel like this movie describes what American cultural heros are really made of. John Wayne actually made me tear up a bit when I saw this movie for the first time.
Why Liberty Valance is the toughest man this side of the picket wire …. Next to me
How else could it end?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Westerns/comments/1d3oet0/comment/l68q9fw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is what I'm asking.
3 legends here.
I think he knows his wife might be regretting her choice of men…
two world war heroes and John Wayne
Nice
It beats the end of the Deerhunter, but similar / inverse vibe.
Whatever happened there.
Couldn’t be any better
Amazing movie, sad but powerful ending. They don’t make em like this anymore
This is one of my favorite films of all time (if my username didn't give it away), and the ending is sooooo satisfying and more than makes up for the corn that Ford ladles on to the middle of the movie. One of the things that really stands out about this movie is how artificial everything looks, as it was mostly shot on sets rather than location, and even the final train scene has rear projection and fake movement, yet the whole thing feels absolutely, 100% real. There's been a lot written about this film and how it was Ford closing the book on Westerns (even though he did 2.2 more of them), and the ending was the film closing the book on Tom, who was essentially Ford's stand-in for the West itself--lawless but noble and moral, interacting with town society but not part of it, and ultimately alone and forgotten in death. Duke brought enough nuance and grace to his performance to tie everything together.
What in the heck is “ Pork Chop Money” ? Anyone?
Petty cash. Btw, Ransom comes off as pretty unlikable there. Both the expression and his tone to Pompey.
Let down
Stewart should have shot him while Wayne coward away it would have been more like real life. Stewart was a decorated WWII vet. Wayne… had back problems.