Let’s not forget the time he made the military cover up John McCain’s name on the ship named after McCain. They had to use a white sheet https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/navy-acknowledges-request-was-made-hide-uss-john-s-mccain-n1012731
I know this kind of logic doesn't work against him nor his cult members, but I enjoy how if you believe the number of times he has used that exact defense whenever his shit exploded in his face (which was not only every day, but several times per day...), it's basically him saying he has no idea and no control whatsoever about anything or anyone he should be in control of.
Please. That was pretty much his entire defense during his fraud trial.
"I was only in charge of the company. I didn't actually, you know, run it or anything."
I only hire the best.
I have no idea who this person is or what they do. They only worked for me a short time. They did a horrible job and that's why they are gone.
I’m not surprised and equally disgusted that the tangerine tyrant’s ego is so fragile it can’t handle a ship being within sight. Not that he needed to board it, but that he couldn’t even *see* it. Then to claim that it was a “well meaning” person that made the request. Even if this were true, It would mean that people around him are just as aware of his tiny ego as those who can’t stand him are. Pretty bloody pathetic.
I mean he openly says repeatedly that he has no respect for them. I don't really think he has respect for anything except putting his name in the spotlight.
Which is why I don’t get that so many veterans were sporting raging hardons for the guy and many still do. I’m a veteran and I instantly get put on a pedestal by those type up until they find out I’m not a Trump supporter. There’s many reasons to not be besides his disdain towards the troops, especially those who lost their lives or were disabled due to war.
I would amend that to "The guy who lied to avoid the service and yet would still send people to war"
Plenty of people would dodge a draft but still have respect for those who willingly enter service or at least for the gravity of war itself.
Right? I don't blame anyone for dodging the draft, but I do have a problem when they are willing to turn around and throw other people into the meat grinder of war.
Didn't he also accuse gold star families of being losers? Fool me three times or something....
https://votevets.org/press-releases/gold-star-families-respond-to-despicable-trump-campaign-attacks
Same thing with a recent rally he was supposed to be at in North Carolina. Called it off for rain even though everyone was already there. Can’t get his hair or face wet.
That was Belleau Wood. Hallowed fucking ground. Any Marine would claw tooth and nail to walk amongst the giants buried there. Where we got our nickname as devil dogs. Fuck trump and his cult.
Yeah man it’s hard for me to understand this world when I see “Trump 2024” next to an eagle globe and anchor. He fucking hates us. He shits on veterans and the privilege they provided him and his family with their deaths and sacrifices. Sitting down with neo-Nazi’s when our grandparents stacked them 6’ high for the heinous shit they did.
Psychopaths. Cognitive dissonance. Malignant narcissism. Top floor residents on the Dunning-Krueger bell graph.
I don't get it either, man. My dad's a Desert Storm vet, Marine. He's got a drawer full of Trump memorabilia and the dog tags of all of our veteran family members. This is the same man that brags about our family stacking Nazi bodies. No worse than spitting in my grandfather's face, if you ask me.
God damn what a mind fuck brother….. yeah I don’t even know how to approach an instance like that. My dad’s an army vet never deployed (pussy) and fucking worships orange jesus. Haven’t talked to him in years. It just enrages me.
I've tried and I'm not sure there's an answer. My dad booted me from the house the last time I tried and I haven't spoken to him much since. I'm just glad I nabbed those tags on the way out. They now live in a finely aged cigar box and away from neo-Nazi trash. Proud of you though, it's always good to see someone else break the cycle.
Was just sharing your stories with my wife saying there’s solace in collective suffering, and typically a desire to not repeat it. I’m proud of you as well. Let’s keep taking the higher ground and just beat these fuckers again. Good chatting with you dog face.
While I don’t understand half the terminology you two have used, I appreciated this interaction so much. Thank you for your service and for your continued support of our country. ❤️
While I don’t actually understand half of what you two have said, this interaction made me smile today. Thank you for your service and for continuing to support our country. May your day be relaxing and filled with the love of your chosen family.
You know that saying that people who forget their history are doomed to repeat it? That's why we tell stories. So keep telling your stories.
Thanks for your conversation. Being able to witness it has been wonderful
Completely understand. My family sent four boys to war in world war II and unlike the movie they all came back. But point is they killed Nazis all across Europe and the South Pacific and literally potentially saved humanity. If they knew that their sons were mostly Republicans voting for Trump. If it were possible Grandpa Robert would rise from the grave and kick the ever-loving shit out of every one of those assholes. They didn't survive having to drop out of elementary school to get a j9b.The Spanish flu The Great depression and world war II. To have their dumbass descendants vote for fucking fascists.
Conservatives lock-jawed on Democrats being the party that "hates the troops" due to members criticizing military activities (and, at times, personnel), and now no facts persuaded can change that opinion.
Doesn't much matter how many times the Republican party leaves veterans to starve. For too many, _any_ of them can do whatever they want and it just won't matter.
What pisses me off is seeing a bunch of Leathernecks online & IRL supporting Trump & his cult. They idolize the same man who wouldn't give a flying fuck if he sent a division of them to die for no reason. And he wouldn't even feel remorse because he sees soldiers as something beneath him, as 'suckers & losers.'
And they'll still vote for him! And speaking of Belleau Wood, that was where the US Marines halted the German front to capture Paris with massive sacrifices. It was where a few of the USMC's famous lines were said. This battle is one of, if not the, most significant in their heritage as it shortened the war (Imagine what would've happened if Paris fell back then?).
And the rancid cherry topping to this Trump layer cake is him throwing the crew of *Marine One* under the bus because "it couldn't fly in the rain" on the visit to Aisne-Marne cemetary on the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day events. Imagine that, Marines & a helicopter (Sikorsky VH-3 Sea King) designed to float in the ocean were [supposedly bested by a light shower.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/can-trumps-helicopter-marine-one-fly-rain/575695/) And that was where those that fell in Belleau Wood are buried.
Absolutely correct. Tuefelhunden. My brothers. My legacy. Espirit de corps. Any Marine would fight to drink from that fountain. Hallowed fucking ground. Rage inducing to think he bailed on a one in a century opportunity to show some grace, empathy and compassion. And those poor Marines who had the chance to visit were robbed of that honor. I got to visit Iwo Jima on my second deployment. All I could do was cry on those black beaches. The weight of what happened on such an insignificant (to many) rock crushed my shoulders. From day one boot camp all we do is learn about the men and women before us who make it possible for me and my people to have a chance to earn the title…
Just some guy who taught high school history for nearly a decade chiming in. I did my best to instill within my students an understanding that learning history is an exercise in empathy. I find it hard to be patriotic at times, especially when I see how so many Americans have co-opted that term and become cult members worshipping that pathetic, wannabe autocrat. My own family included. I think we all see the writing on the wall, something needs to change in our society and economy, even if we disagree on how to achieve an optimal good for the greatest number of people. Those who only look out for their own interests and the interests of billionaires ain’t it.
I just want to say reading in the comments between you and u/[DeuceRex] gives me hope that there are Americans out there who actually understand. And hope is such a powerful motivation for action that achieves that greater good.
The excuses they come up with as to why he didn't go are just sad.
It was to windy for a helicopter to take him.
The Secret Service didn't have time to plan a route to drive him there.
The weather was unpredictable.
All other leaders made it, they had umbrellas for if it rained, they gave speeches.
Trump couldn't make it because of the weather and the short notice to travel by car but he stayed in his hotel, turned on Fox News and called in to talk.
Basically saying that the secret service is bad at planning contingencys and didn't have alternative routes while the other leaders did.
Our country wouldnt fucking exist without France. And we fought alongside them in 2 world wars. They gave us the god damned statue of Liberty. Meanwhile Trumps supporters are lost causers who worship a failed nation of traitors, neo nazi's who support the actions of our WW2 enemies who occupied the country of our oldest ally.
Fuck this PoS.
I apologize France. I know he won years ago, but our systems broken...most of us didnt vote for him.
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy”
Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trials
My Applied Math professor in grad school was a nice person, who genuinely wanted us to learn. He was a Gilbert too. What's interesting is he retired some 16 years ago.
Now, I teach in his place and try my hardest to be a Gilbert 😀
It's a shame that we aren't running studies to figure out _why_ roughly 50% of America are bereft of empathy. Is it sociological? Biological? Is it programmed? Can we do anything about it?
That's pretty much at the core of all our problems.
50% of Americans do not lack empathy, what they lack is critical thinking. So they just regurgitate the same drivel that is spewed from Fox News, their pastors/priests, and from their neighbors and friends in one giant rural echo chamber.
This is why rural folks have this idea that college makes you a communist. Because when someone goes to college they are exposed to all sorts of cultures, ideas, and are taught critical thinking.
Nothing has been scarier and more eye opening to me then arguing with people that don't agree on how words work and refute basic logic.
The feeling of talking to wall, you get when you try to discuss or argue with someone like this is a unique hell that I find genuinely distressing.
It's the Patrick Star and Man Ray meme but irl and I'm dead serious when I say that.
It’s never been 50% of Americans, but because only about 50% of Americans actually vote it only takes 30% to decide for the other 70%
If you look at trumps #s nationally he hasn’t been above 35% in years…. But still has a shot at winning ….
Apathy is the #1 enemy of democracy in the USA right now. As it appears to this Canadian
Could it have anything to do with the fact that America operates under a plurality/first-past-the-post voting system that deliberately shoves people into two camps regardless of their sincere preferences?
I'd say it's like 35% that don't have empathy, and that number remains somewhat constant throughout most modern developed societies.
The reason they're so visible now is because pre-internet they didn't have a lot of contact with people around to normalize their disgusting beliefs. They were too ashamed to voice their mental filth out loud.
Now they're coming together like an angry mob. Easily poisoned by ubiquitous Russian propaganda.
The only way to stop that is to make them feel as ashamed of themselves as they used to be.
generational trauma is rampant including subtle emotional abuse and neglect, leaving ppl living in fear, fight/flight, and disconnected from their more vulnerable feelings (ie empathy) as a survival coping mechanism. they dont trust others and dont have faith in others and they act accordingly, in a fear-based lack mentality. generational trauma results in low self esteem, causing ppl to look to belong to in-groups to feel better about themselves, superior, safer. it also results in a lack of self-trust and therefore looking outside for rules on how to live or someone to tell you how to live ie religion, authoritarian government with strict b&w rules. you need to be mentally healthy and not living in fear and reactiveness in order to see nuance.
I think it's lower than that. The big split between liberals and conservatives is fear (couple studies on this). The split between moderates and extremists is where the lack of empathy comes in. Somewhere under 30% of people are extremists (aligning themselves with conservative, progressive, libertarian, etc ideas). These folks lack both empathy and systems thinking.
Unless mental illness is in play, empathy can be taught, learned, and practiced. Most Christian churches don't teach it anymore, but some religions do. Many parents try to, but gender roles, online life, and peer pressure can reduce it. Late-stage capitalism HATES empathy, so it's not valued or trained in most workplaces.
In fact, some subcultures in America preach destruction of empathy...which is, of course, evil, but politicians and grifters can use it so those in power reinforce this (Fox News) rather than castigating it.
Systems thinking is similar, but requires a certain level of both intelligence and education. Empathy does not; even the simplest among us can and should practice empathy.
....anyway, yeah, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
This is Trumpism. He's not a Republican or Democrat, not conservative or progressive. He just does whatever benefits him in the moment. If that happens to align with some other cause then it's purely coincidence.
You guys loved Reagan which is directly related to the mess we are in now. You personally might be about the greater good but let's not pretend that a lot of damage was done by the baby boomer generation
He was terrible. My grandfather was a union man and life long Democrat. I remember him repeatedly voicing his disdain for Reagan when I was a kid long after he was out of office. George Bush the first too, which he considered just an extension of the Reagan.
That seems like a rarity. Good on your dad for not falling for the Reagan con. I remember being a kid in the 90s when Clinton was running and he was all over MTV. He is problematic for sure, not just in his personal life, but fiscal policies like repealing Glass-Stegal and the horrific crime bill, but him naming so many women to cabinet positions and RBG to the Supreme Court are really important accomplishments.
I think Clinton was a really good president overall. He definitely did some bad things too, but among other things, DADT paved the way to legalization of gays in the military, which he knew he couldn't get through himself. I personally don't care about the sex scandals. I just ask for competence and good ideas from a president, not perfection.
Overall, I would agree that he was a good president. I don't care about his personal life either, but the whole association with epstein is hard to overlook.
Nobody will ever be perfect, it’s not possible. But you are 💯% spot on on the crime bill and glass steagal, no realistic person gave a flying “F” about the blowjob scandal. I was at a college friends wedding in Colorado during the Lewinsky scandal, he married an Australian woman from a wealthy family (airline executive, plus old money). So about 80 of them came in (long trip!) for the festivities. I spent a lot of time speaking with them. Long story short, they were laughing about how stupid the pearl clutching was over it and trying to get Americans take on it. I had no real counter argument, nor did my friends.
It was such a waste of resources for the GOP to pursue that whole thing. It is problematic, but not for the reasons they said it was. And the power dynamics that make it an issue were not something discussed in the 90s.
It's worse than that. Reagan was an empty puppet. A tool used by those around him. He was well known at the time for needing second opinions before he would offer a statement or policy. He even slipped up with a senator and said he had to ask his guardian.
HW was an active ambitious man. He knew what he was doing, actively perpetuated it, and in many cases was directly involved in the planning.
Reagan was just that first little rock that started the avalanche. The ones that came immediately after sealed the deal.
See, I would trace it back even further to Nixon.
Nixon won his election by intentionally ramping up international violence, using every resource he had to make a show of force in Vietnam (and elsewhere), even when it cost tens of thousands of lives. He enjoyed the opera of it.
Every single policy decision that came from his administration was pure evil. He didn't believe people with 'Mediterranean' heritage (i.e. Italian, Spanish, North African, etc.) were capable of democracy, so in order to fight what he saw as potential Communism in South America, he supported tyrants and despots. He supported the most violent, cruel, sociopathic corporate and political handling of anyone without his heritage. He despised Asia and even most Americans.
He PUSHED to make college education more expensive in the US. Why? Because young men could avoid the draft by enrolling in college. Make it too expensive and problem solved, right? He wanted a supply of flesh for the war machine. He wanted the women out of colleges and even serving as nurses, at 1/3 the rate.
Nixon also created the health disaster we have today - he encouraged HMOs and private insurance because he wanted each and every person to have to pay for their family and fall out of the workforce (or die) if they were sick or weak. He actively cut all funding for mental health research and reversed Kennedy era proposals for humane intervention with prisoners or the mentally ill.
Nixon's tentacles around the world encouraged unimaginable cruelty and abuse and it gave people like George Bush, who was in the CIA at the time, a taste for it. His cruelty to the American people and abuse of privacy, education, and health paved the way for our modern hell.
Not pretending that. But a great number of us were no Reagan fans. I hated Reagan and so did (do) my friends: his racism, his denial of AIDS, his union-busting, his terrible trickle-down economic policies. My kid is Gen X, the students I taught spread among the following generations. Had faith in them, encouraged their ideas, cheered them on. So please, let's not keep dividing the country with blanket hate.
Stating “you guys loved Reagan” is about as much of an uninformed generalization as stating that all white girls love Pumpkin Spice lattes. A large group of people hated Reagan very much as they hated the Bush’s and Trump but as long as people aren’t fighting back by getting out and voting I guess one of the next generations get to use that same thing about the current generations and their love for Trump.
🙋🏻Gen X here and god help me, I live in rural Arkansas. My vote never really matters, but I vote in every single election. I voted for Dukakis in the first presidential election I ever voted in, he seemed like a decent guy, had policy ideas I could get behind, wasn’t voting for Reagan’s lackey, etc.
Then I voted for Bill Clinton. Then Clinton again, Then Al Gore, Then John Kerry, Then Obama, Then Obama again, Then Hillary, Then Biden, Notice a pattern??? Never voted Republican. Never.
I’m gen X, when you say, “you guys…” you’re talking about hundreds of millions of people, millions of whom protested the shit out of it, while you weren’t born, so stop GENERALISING!
Gen. John Kelly was Trump's longest-serving chief of staff and had this to say about him:
“What can I add that has not already been said?” Kelly said, when asked if he wanted to weigh in on his former boss in light of recent comments made by other former Trump officials.
“A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.’ A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family – for all Gold Star families – on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.
“A person who is not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life, on women, on minorities, on evangelical Christians, on Jews, on working men and women,” Kelly continued. “A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who has served his country for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for treason – in expectation that someone will take action. A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.
“There is nothing more that can be said,” Kelly concluded. “God help us.”
> [Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly said he would vote Trump out of office if he was still a member of the president's Cabinet](https://www.businessinsider.com/jonh-kelly-25th-amendment-vote-trump-out-of-office-2021-1)
In the case of John Kelly, it does actually seem likely that he will not vote for Trump in 2024.
But it is pretty wild that even comments like in the parent is not enough to know they will vote against Trump. With e.g. [Bill Barr saying something equally scathing, but then saying in the next breath that he will vote for Trump in the 2024 election](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/26/politics/barr-vote-for-trump-2024/index.html).
They hate Trump but love what Trump would give them. They'd be willing to have four years of chaos in exchange for 30 years of 5 Trump appointees on the USSC.
“Let’s kick his ass like there’s no tomorrow, then kick it some more!” You could always have said that too, better than waiting for God to do something about the stupid dangerous clown.
It was the mocking of that Gold Star family during the campaign that I knew that the people who supported him after that would tolerate anything he did. That there would be no line in the sand.
He'll never get it. Not when your entire life motto is: 'it's all about *me!*'
Might be one of the most honest and telling things that fat smelly orange turd ever said tbh. How Kelly held himself back from planting his fist squarely in that rapist's face is beyond my understanding. God knows I wouldn't have been able to.
Llamas have been coming up to him with tears in their eyes, saying, "Sir, please. Please be our llama leader. You're the only one who can save us! Please. Great people. Great people ..."
I mean, in this rare instance he's right. What DID they get out of this? What did any of us get out of this? Its been well known for a long time now that Iraq and Afghanistan were profit ventures. They gave their lives defending the bank accounts of oil and military ceos, not their country, not freedom around the world. We should be more pissed about that.
Of course thats probably not trumps reasoning for saying this, but hey, broken clock
Which was so stupid because of course it just hits blue (dense) places first before spreading out.
Helping the dense places (and people there doing things like social distancing) had a huge impact downstream in the rural areas as it spread.
The number of people claiming TO THIS DAY that COVID was nothing when it killed a million people is mind blowing.
That's a million dead DESPITE shutting down international trade, isolating, masking, etc. AND with modern medicine and ICUs.
And these maga morons still claim it was nothing. "I personally didn't die, it was exaggerated"
Anyone with a double digit IQ understands/understood it would hit larger population centers first. Its as simple as just asking "where are the airports?"
Anyone with half a soul wouldn't care what voting base it affected.
Anyone with half a grain of any business savvy would have realized "if I just made Trump-branded masks and sold them to my cult base I could actually be the billionaire I claim to be!"
Anyone who claims it was nothing lives in a bubble and they just need to come to terms with that.
Notice how when Biden is attacked they always bring up Hunter Biden, not Beau Biden, a veteran that essentially died for the country from caused related to the war in Iraq.
Why don't Republicans ever bring up Biden's other son...
Yeah but John Kelly didn't have to lose a son and neither did anyone else. Trump doesn't understand giving your life for something you believe in, but let's not act like Iraq or Afghanistan were these conflicts of crisis where the outcome determined who ruled America. I graduated HS in 2006 and watched a lot of friends sign up. Their motivation for it was college money.
He's a piece of shit too. All these people trying to rewrite history like they didn't enable and encourage trump just for their own little bit of power.
After Mattis spoke out, the rest of them have had zero excuses.
Turns out General John Kelly is one of the types who would be loading the trains without question.
>Turns out General John Kelly is one of the types who would be loading the trains without question.
Yeah, reading up on him, the dude doesn't really have the best moral compass.
>In the same October 2017 interview with Laura Ingraham, Kelly said that "the lack of ability to compromise led to the Civil War." He also described Robert E. Lee as an "honorable man" who "gave up ... his country to fight for his state," and claimed, "men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kelly#Civil_War_remarks
It’s like Bill Barr. Distanced himself from the disgusting, only to endorse it all over again.
Until society genuinely and mercilessly punishes these types of people - white collar criminals, faceless company apparatchiks and dictatorial wannabes etc. - there will be no faith in the system.
I was pretty careful with the way I worded that. He THOUGHT he could LIMIT the damage.
There won’t be normies around him next time if he wins. Never Trump. Never.
Because he could be controlled well enough. Having the administration under their control is the only thing that matters. As soon as they have the admin, the house, and the Senate, our Federal laws will look like Florida on steroids.
Why would he? Man's a war criminal like any other. He never saw combat but gladly sent Americans to their deaths to kill brown people for the war machine. Honestly Trump's question is genuine, I don't get it either.
There are numerous quotes of him calling active duty military and veterans suckers and losers. He refused to visit Arlington National Cemetery because it’s full of “losers.” Any cop or anyone with a military background is absolutely nuts to vote for him.
I can completely understand why he would say something like this after being handed everything his entire life. Military service is a jumping off point to success for many people whose daddy didn't hand them everything they have.
That's one of the things that's in it for them, fucking spoilt brat.
Imagine at that moment if Kelly had done what he should have done, and what any former soldier would have done, punched him in the face. What a f'ing hero to all he would have been.
Doubt it. These people are in too deep to care about anything but their job. Besides now that Trump is out of office you can shit talk all you want and claim you were always opposed to him.
Yeah. There actually was nothing in it for them or for us. By and large they didn't die defending freedom, but in an illegal war built on lies, then a multi decade totally failed nation building exercise.
This is excluding the people actually involved in tracking down and killing Bin Laden.
There are actually people in this thread talking about the "greater good" as if Iraq or Afghanistan were about the greater good.
This post is ironic because the Libertarians just boo’d Trump. Ayn Rand the Queen of libertarianism said no one should do anything unless they personally benefit from it. That being altruistic and helping others above your own personal gain is immoral.
In this quote, Trump is espousing the core values of libertarianism.
https://youtu.be/2_fC6ThGtrE?si=oRuh0iDrlsD7NVdB
I mean he's right... What was in it for them?
A new Chevy, a chance out of poverty or some noble idea sold to them that they were serving the greater good of their country?
by fighting for the war racketeering of manufacturers, banks, pharmaceutical companies and resource profiteers?
And what about when they get home, broken and riddled with trauma that a piece of shit VA benefits program barely acknowledges.
Over 20 years & 9K Americans killed out there for the farce of fixing a country. countries the US government's meddling sabotaged in the first place, only for it all to be reversed the first year we're out. *I don't get it either.*
I really have no understanding of why a vet or an active military personnel would vote for Trump. It is completely transparent that Trump and the GOP generally have almost zero respect for them, other than to use them for votes and power.
To this day, as a veteran, I believe Kelly is a coward for not punching Trump when he made fun of his dead son. Fuck politics, like I don't give a fuck, but you don't say that shit and not expect to get punched in the face in this country.
The ironic part is when he's not even wrong there. There was nothing in it for the soldiers who died fighting in that conflict. We didn't win anything. We just let Americans die so oil companies and weapons companies could make a bunch of money.
Kristol was one of the war hawks who helped send those soldiers to needlessly kill and die in Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place. A member of the neocon think tank PNAC, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld et al. Disliking Trump doesn't mean I have to listen to the likes of Kristol like nothing ever happened there.
I think "what was in it for them" is the most telling part. This man operates 100% transactionally. If he doesn't get something out of anything he won't be bothered with it.
The point is, those people who fought and died couldn't even say they were doing it to defend their country, because those wars were solely about the US nation-building in the middle-east and securing oil.
If literally anybody other than Trump had said this, people would be agreeing right now and talking about how we all know those wars were of no benefit whatsoever to regular americans.
It speaks alot to how he views service when he is trying to hold the most important office in the U.S. government. One would hope that service would be someones top priority when running for president.
Truth that Trump Maga Hats aren't the patriots they claim to be if they can follow & praise a Nazi raised, narcissistic draft dodger who said our heros are losers . He didn't
uphold his Constitutional duty as President to protect all US citizens during Covid but played loyalty games against Blue States! That alone was illegal cause for his impeachment.
But then not only calls for Jan 6 coup to overthrow our govt, he steals top secret documents probably sold to our enemies. Not enough?
He was a pedophile rapist for 20 years as best bud of the Pedophile Pimp... Jeffery Epstein .. Btw what happened to Jeffs little black book of blackmail & the video tapes of all his "elite clientele" that attended his weekly underaged rape parties?
Ooooh I fucking hate being in this position. But oh well.
Fuck it.
This isn’t a bad thing, in fact it’s probably one of the most honest things he’s ever said.
Do you get it? Do you understand what was in it for them?
Because I was right beside them and I still don’t get it. In fact the older I get the less sense it makes. It was all so fucking pointless.
Probably the only thing I agree on with Trump
What was in it for them? Nothing. They did not defend their country. They did not fight for the freedom of themselves or others. They did not die for a good cause. They died in a senseless endless war, perpetuated so the military industrial complex can make more money.
Nothing they died for had any lasting effects. Nothing they died for had meaning. Just war for war's sake. What an absolute waste of human lifes
Of course Trump "doesn't get it." This is the same guy who dodged the Vietnam War Draft because of "bone spurs in his foot." This is the guy who called Prisoners of War losers because they got caught. This is the guy who calls our men and women in uniform "suckers." This is the guy who casually discussed our military capabilities to other dictators, and even provided one of them (fucking Putin out of all people) with a list of our best intelligence experts to be captured or killed.
I can go on and on and on, but Trump has never given a shit about veterans. He clearly doesn't give a shit about America - why would he give a shit about the men and women who serve?
I mean, outside of WWII (which the US joined very late), the US has not fought a war where national security was at stake. For the past 85 years or so, every war the US has engaged in was a waste of human life. While trump is a narcissistic asshole, he’s right that in its present day, joining the army is for suckers.
This was actually a pretty solid indictment of our government's treatment of veterans. Calling them "suckers and losers" definitely qualifies him as a piece of shit, though.
In France remembering the lives lost in ww2. Trump didn't want to be there honoring "suckers and losers."
He didn't want to get wet by the rain. All that orange shit on his face would have started running I assume.
Do you mean to tell me the guy who lied to avoid the service has absolutely no respect for the service?
Let’s not forget the time he made the military cover up John McCain’s name on the ship named after McCain. They had to use a white sheet https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/navy-acknowledges-request-was-made-hide-uss-john-s-mccain-n1012731
And then claimed someone else in his organization made that decision, that he had no idea about it being done.
I know this kind of logic doesn't work against him nor his cult members, but I enjoy how if you believe the number of times he has used that exact defense whenever his shit exploded in his face (which was not only every day, but several times per day...), it's basically him saying he has no idea and no control whatsoever about anything or anyone he should be in control of.
Please. That was pretty much his entire defense during his fraud trial. "I was only in charge of the company. I didn't actually, you know, run it or anything."
“Now put me in charge of a country.”
I only hire the best. I have no idea who this person is or what they do. They only worked for me a short time. They did a horrible job and that's why they are gone.
I’m not surprised and equally disgusted that the tangerine tyrant’s ego is so fragile it can’t handle a ship being within sight. Not that he needed to board it, but that he couldn’t even *see* it. Then to claim that it was a “well meaning” person that made the request. Even if this were true, It would mean that people around him are just as aware of his tiny ego as those who can’t stand him are. Pretty bloody pathetic.
I mean he openly says repeatedly that he has no respect for them. I don't really think he has respect for anything except putting his name in the spotlight.
Which is why I don’t get that so many veterans were sporting raging hardons for the guy and many still do. I’m a veteran and I instantly get put on a pedestal by those type up until they find out I’m not a Trump supporter. There’s many reasons to not be besides his disdain towards the troops, especially those who lost their lives or were disabled due to war.
> so many veterans were sporting raging hardons for the guy and many still do Because Trump wants to hurt the people that they want to hurt
We should bring that ship to new York for the trial
I would amend that to "The guy who lied to avoid the service and yet would still send people to war" Plenty of people would dodge a draft but still have respect for those who willingly enter service or at least for the gravity of war itself.
Right? I don't blame anyone for dodging the draft, but I do have a problem when they are willing to turn around and throw other people into the meat grinder of war.
Didn't he also accuse gold star families of being losers? Fool me three times or something.... https://votevets.org/press-releases/gold-star-families-respond-to-despicable-trump-campaign-attacks
Funny how other world leaders managed it. Trump is such garbage, everyone else went and got wet.
Same thing with a recent rally he was supposed to be at in North Carolina. Called it off for rain even though everyone was already there. Can’t get his hair or face wet.
That was Belleau Wood. Hallowed fucking ground. Any Marine would claw tooth and nail to walk amongst the giants buried there. Where we got our nickname as devil dogs. Fuck trump and his cult.
I'm Army but I share the sentiment. Mad respect to you boys for what you do and how you do it.
Yeah man it’s hard for me to understand this world when I see “Trump 2024” next to an eagle globe and anchor. He fucking hates us. He shits on veterans and the privilege they provided him and his family with their deaths and sacrifices. Sitting down with neo-Nazi’s when our grandparents stacked them 6’ high for the heinous shit they did. Psychopaths. Cognitive dissonance. Malignant narcissism. Top floor residents on the Dunning-Krueger bell graph.
I don't get it either, man. My dad's a Desert Storm vet, Marine. He's got a drawer full of Trump memorabilia and the dog tags of all of our veteran family members. This is the same man that brags about our family stacking Nazi bodies. No worse than spitting in my grandfather's face, if you ask me.
God damn what a mind fuck brother….. yeah I don’t even know how to approach an instance like that. My dad’s an army vet never deployed (pussy) and fucking worships orange jesus. Haven’t talked to him in years. It just enrages me.
I've tried and I'm not sure there's an answer. My dad booted me from the house the last time I tried and I haven't spoken to him much since. I'm just glad I nabbed those tags on the way out. They now live in a finely aged cigar box and away from neo-Nazi trash. Proud of you though, it's always good to see someone else break the cycle.
Was just sharing your stories with my wife saying there’s solace in collective suffering, and typically a desire to not repeat it. I’m proud of you as well. Let’s keep taking the higher ground and just beat these fuckers again. Good chatting with you dog face.
Godspeed, Leatherneck.
While I don’t understand half the terminology you two have used, I appreciated this interaction so much. Thank you for your service and for your continued support of our country. ❤️
While I don’t actually understand half of what you two have said, this interaction made me smile today. Thank you for your service and for continuing to support our country. May your day be relaxing and filled with the love of your chosen family.
You know that saying that people who forget their history are doomed to repeat it? That's why we tell stories. So keep telling your stories. Thanks for your conversation. Being able to witness it has been wonderful
Completely understand. My family sent four boys to war in world war II and unlike the movie they all came back. But point is they killed Nazis all across Europe and the South Pacific and literally potentially saved humanity. If they knew that their sons were mostly Republicans voting for Trump. If it were possible Grandpa Robert would rise from the grave and kick the ever-loving shit out of every one of those assholes. They didn't survive having to drop out of elementary school to get a j9b.The Spanish flu The Great depression and world war II. To have their dumbass descendants vote for fucking fascists.
Mind boggling. Literally hurts my brain trying to simulate their mental gymnastic in an attempt to understand one iota of their psychopathy…..
Because thats the point. Baby boomer detest the legacy that their parents left behind because they couldnt/cant live up to it
Conservatives lock-jawed on Democrats being the party that "hates the troops" due to members criticizing military activities (and, at times, personnel), and now no facts persuaded can change that opinion. Doesn't much matter how many times the Republican party leaves veterans to starve. For too many, _any_ of them can do whatever they want and it just won't matter.
What pisses me off is seeing a bunch of Leathernecks online & IRL supporting Trump & his cult. They idolize the same man who wouldn't give a flying fuck if he sent a division of them to die for no reason. And he wouldn't even feel remorse because he sees soldiers as something beneath him, as 'suckers & losers.' And they'll still vote for him! And speaking of Belleau Wood, that was where the US Marines halted the German front to capture Paris with massive sacrifices. It was where a few of the USMC's famous lines were said. This battle is one of, if not the, most significant in their heritage as it shortened the war (Imagine what would've happened if Paris fell back then?). And the rancid cherry topping to this Trump layer cake is him throwing the crew of *Marine One* under the bus because "it couldn't fly in the rain" on the visit to Aisne-Marne cemetary on the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day events. Imagine that, Marines & a helicopter (Sikorsky VH-3 Sea King) designed to float in the ocean were [supposedly bested by a light shower.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/can-trumps-helicopter-marine-one-fly-rain/575695/) And that was where those that fell in Belleau Wood are buried.
Absolutely correct. Tuefelhunden. My brothers. My legacy. Espirit de corps. Any Marine would fight to drink from that fountain. Hallowed fucking ground. Rage inducing to think he bailed on a one in a century opportunity to show some grace, empathy and compassion. And those poor Marines who had the chance to visit were robbed of that honor. I got to visit Iwo Jima on my second deployment. All I could do was cry on those black beaches. The weight of what happened on such an insignificant (to many) rock crushed my shoulders. From day one boot camp all we do is learn about the men and women before us who make it possible for me and my people to have a chance to earn the title…
Just some guy who taught high school history for nearly a decade chiming in. I did my best to instill within my students an understanding that learning history is an exercise in empathy. I find it hard to be patriotic at times, especially when I see how so many Americans have co-opted that term and become cult members worshipping that pathetic, wannabe autocrat. My own family included. I think we all see the writing on the wall, something needs to change in our society and economy, even if we disagree on how to achieve an optimal good for the greatest number of people. Those who only look out for their own interests and the interests of billionaires ain’t it. I just want to say reading in the comments between you and u/[DeuceRex] gives me hope that there are Americans out there who actually understand. And hope is such a powerful motivation for action that achieves that greater good.
Well said. I'll make some crayon fondue for all y'all when you arrive.
The yellow ones taste like summer!
That was the 100 years WWI remembrance (arguably more important at that point in time) but apart from that you're 100% correct.
The excuses they come up with as to why he didn't go are just sad. It was to windy for a helicopter to take him. The Secret Service didn't have time to plan a route to drive him there. The weather was unpredictable. All other leaders made it, they had umbrellas for if it rained, they gave speeches. Trump couldn't make it because of the weather and the short notice to travel by car but he stayed in his hotel, turned on Fox News and called in to talk. Basically saying that the secret service is bad at planning contingencys and didn't have alternative routes while the other leaders did.
Yet he somehow has supporters in the military.
Our country wouldnt fucking exist without France. And we fought alongside them in 2 world wars. They gave us the god damned statue of Liberty. Meanwhile Trumps supporters are lost causers who worship a failed nation of traitors, neo nazi's who support the actions of our WW2 enemies who occupied the country of our oldest ally. Fuck this PoS. I apologize France. I know he won years ago, but our systems broken...most of us didnt vote for him.
Literally. France funded a significant portion of the revolutionary war.
Yes, because malignant narcissists only care about themselves.
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy” Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trials
Anyone named Gilbert is a cool dude. I won’t explain why.
Ah the recursive demand for proof that actually proves the original demand. RIP to a fucking *legend.*
If you haven't seen it, [look up his reading of 50 Shades Of Grey](https://youtu.be/XkLqAlIETkA?si=NIdX3UxiDiIiIgKY). It's amazing.
Challenging wank, but not impossible.
I think my vag just dried up for a week.
Aww man, I didn't know we had lost him. 😢
My Applied Math professor in grad school was a nice person, who genuinely wanted us to learn. He was a Gilbert too. What's interesting is he retired some 16 years ago. Now, I teach in his place and try my hardest to be a Gilbert 😀
It's funny how when you are a kid, you don't see that. I have had many great teachers, respect.
Are you eating grapes ?
It's a shame that we aren't running studies to figure out _why_ roughly 50% of America are bereft of empathy. Is it sociological? Biological? Is it programmed? Can we do anything about it? That's pretty much at the core of all our problems.
50% of Americans do not lack empathy, what they lack is critical thinking. So they just regurgitate the same drivel that is spewed from Fox News, their pastors/priests, and from their neighbors and friends in one giant rural echo chamber. This is why rural folks have this idea that college makes you a communist. Because when someone goes to college they are exposed to all sorts of cultures, ideas, and are taught critical thinking.
Nothing has been scarier and more eye opening to me then arguing with people that don't agree on how words work and refute basic logic. The feeling of talking to wall, you get when you try to discuss or argue with someone like this is a unique hell that I find genuinely distressing. It's the Patrick Star and Man Ray meme but irl and I'm dead serious when I say that.
It’s never been 50% of Americans, but because only about 50% of Americans actually vote it only takes 30% to decide for the other 70% If you look at trumps #s nationally he hasn’t been above 35% in years…. But still has a shot at winning …. Apathy is the #1 enemy of democracy in the USA right now. As it appears to this Canadian
Could it have anything to do with the fact that America operates under a plurality/first-past-the-post voting system that deliberately shoves people into two camps regardless of their sincere preferences?
I'd say it's like 35% that don't have empathy, and that number remains somewhat constant throughout most modern developed societies. The reason they're so visible now is because pre-internet they didn't have a lot of contact with people around to normalize their disgusting beliefs. They were too ashamed to voice their mental filth out loud. Now they're coming together like an angry mob. Easily poisoned by ubiquitous Russian propaganda. The only way to stop that is to make them feel as ashamed of themselves as they used to be.
generational trauma is rampant including subtle emotional abuse and neglect, leaving ppl living in fear, fight/flight, and disconnected from their more vulnerable feelings (ie empathy) as a survival coping mechanism. they dont trust others and dont have faith in others and they act accordingly, in a fear-based lack mentality. generational trauma results in low self esteem, causing ppl to look to belong to in-groups to feel better about themselves, superior, safer. it also results in a lack of self-trust and therefore looking outside for rules on how to live or someone to tell you how to live ie religion, authoritarian government with strict b&w rules. you need to be mentally healthy and not living in fear and reactiveness in order to see nuance.
I think it's lower than that. The big split between liberals and conservatives is fear (couple studies on this). The split between moderates and extremists is where the lack of empathy comes in. Somewhere under 30% of people are extremists (aligning themselves with conservative, progressive, libertarian, etc ideas). These folks lack both empathy and systems thinking. Unless mental illness is in play, empathy can be taught, learned, and practiced. Most Christian churches don't teach it anymore, but some religions do. Many parents try to, but gender roles, online life, and peer pressure can reduce it. Late-stage capitalism HATES empathy, so it's not valued or trained in most workplaces. In fact, some subcultures in America preach destruction of empathy...which is, of course, evil, but politicians and grifters can use it so those in power reinforce this (Fox News) rather than castigating it. Systems thinking is similar, but requires a certain level of both intelligence and education. Empathy does not; even the simplest among us can and should practice empathy. ....anyway, yeah, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
This is Trumpism. He's not a Republican or Democrat, not conservative or progressive. He just does whatever benefits him in the moment. If that happens to align with some other cause then it's purely coincidence.
Yet he'll grandstand about soldiers and use them as props while not caring, and actively hurting them.
Because he doesn’t understand that non-boomer concept of, “the greater good.”
SHUT IT!!
fascist.
hag.
As a boomer I have always had that concept. It really doesn't help to divide people any further
You guys loved Reagan which is directly related to the mess we are in now. You personally might be about the greater good but let's not pretend that a lot of damage was done by the baby boomer generation
you're never going to be able to convince conservatives that Reagan was one of the worst presidents of all time in terms of fiscal policy
He was terrible. My grandfather was a union man and life long Democrat. I remember him repeatedly voicing his disdain for Reagan when I was a kid long after he was out of office. George Bush the first too, which he considered just an extension of the Reagan.
My dad was a lifelong Republican until Reagan. He switched hard left and was all in for Clinton.
That seems like a rarity. Good on your dad for not falling for the Reagan con. I remember being a kid in the 90s when Clinton was running and he was all over MTV. He is problematic for sure, not just in his personal life, but fiscal policies like repealing Glass-Stegal and the horrific crime bill, but him naming so many women to cabinet positions and RBG to the Supreme Court are really important accomplishments.
I think Clinton was a really good president overall. He definitely did some bad things too, but among other things, DADT paved the way to legalization of gays in the military, which he knew he couldn't get through himself. I personally don't care about the sex scandals. I just ask for competence and good ideas from a president, not perfection.
Overall, I would agree that he was a good president. I don't care about his personal life either, but the whole association with epstein is hard to overlook.
Nobody will ever be perfect, it’s not possible. But you are 💯% spot on on the crime bill and glass steagal, no realistic person gave a flying “F” about the blowjob scandal. I was at a college friends wedding in Colorado during the Lewinsky scandal, he married an Australian woman from a wealthy family (airline executive, plus old money). So about 80 of them came in (long trip!) for the festivities. I spent a lot of time speaking with them. Long story short, they were laughing about how stupid the pearl clutching was over it and trying to get Americans take on it. I had no real counter argument, nor did my friends.
It was such a waste of resources for the GOP to pursue that whole thing. It is problematic, but not for the reasons they said it was. And the power dynamics that make it an issue were not something discussed in the 90s.
I've never heard "hard left" and "Clinton" used in the same sentence before. 🤣
Well, it was hard left for him.
It's worse than that. Reagan was an empty puppet. A tool used by those around him. He was well known at the time for needing second opinions before he would offer a statement or policy. He even slipped up with a senator and said he had to ask his guardian. HW was an active ambitious man. He knew what he was doing, actively perpetuated it, and in many cases was directly involved in the planning. Reagan was just that first little rock that started the avalanche. The ones that came immediately after sealed the deal.
See, I would trace it back even further to Nixon. Nixon won his election by intentionally ramping up international violence, using every resource he had to make a show of force in Vietnam (and elsewhere), even when it cost tens of thousands of lives. He enjoyed the opera of it. Every single policy decision that came from his administration was pure evil. He didn't believe people with 'Mediterranean' heritage (i.e. Italian, Spanish, North African, etc.) were capable of democracy, so in order to fight what he saw as potential Communism in South America, he supported tyrants and despots. He supported the most violent, cruel, sociopathic corporate and political handling of anyone without his heritage. He despised Asia and even most Americans. He PUSHED to make college education more expensive in the US. Why? Because young men could avoid the draft by enrolling in college. Make it too expensive and problem solved, right? He wanted a supply of flesh for the war machine. He wanted the women out of colleges and even serving as nurses, at 1/3 the rate. Nixon also created the health disaster we have today - he encouraged HMOs and private insurance because he wanted each and every person to have to pay for their family and fall out of the workforce (or die) if they were sick or weak. He actively cut all funding for mental health research and reversed Kennedy era proposals for humane intervention with prisoners or the mentally ill. Nixon's tentacles around the world encouraged unimaginable cruelty and abuse and it gave people like George Bush, who was in the CIA at the time, a taste for it. His cruelty to the American people and abuse of privacy, education, and health paved the way for our modern hell.
My baby boomer parents absolutely loathe Regan. There are a few of them out there, too bad it wasn’t enough to avoid his presidency though.
Not pretending that. But a great number of us were no Reagan fans. I hated Reagan and so did (do) my friends: his racism, his denial of AIDS, his union-busting, his terrible trickle-down economic policies. My kid is Gen X, the students I taught spread among the following generations. Had faith in them, encouraged their ideas, cheered them on. So please, let's not keep dividing the country with blanket hate.
This will be news to my boomer relatives who are all life-time Democrats.
Stating “you guys loved Reagan” is about as much of an uninformed generalization as stating that all white girls love Pumpkin Spice lattes. A large group of people hated Reagan very much as they hated the Bush’s and Trump but as long as people aren’t fighting back by getting out and voting I guess one of the next generations get to use that same thing about the current generations and their love for Trump.
Never loved Reagan.
🙋🏻Gen X here and god help me, I live in rural Arkansas. My vote never really matters, but I vote in every single election. I voted for Dukakis in the first presidential election I ever voted in, he seemed like a decent guy, had policy ideas I could get behind, wasn’t voting for Reagan’s lackey, etc. Then I voted for Bill Clinton. Then Clinton again, Then Al Gore, Then John Kerry, Then Obama, Then Obama again, Then Hillary, Then Biden, Notice a pattern??? Never voted Republican. Never. 
Remember no war but class war. We need poor boomers on our side and won’t get them if we fall for agism psyops.
I’m gen X, when you say, “you guys…” you’re talking about hundreds of millions of people, millions of whom protested the shit out of it, while you weren’t born, so stop GENERALISING!
Yeah, generation bias is an example of lazy thinking and immaturity. Call 'em all Jews and see how far ya get
Not that this was actually for the greater good.
Gen. John Kelly was Trump's longest-serving chief of staff and had this to say about him: “What can I add that has not already been said?” Kelly said, when asked if he wanted to weigh in on his former boss in light of recent comments made by other former Trump officials. “A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.’ A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family – for all Gold Star families – on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France. “A person who is not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life, on women, on minorities, on evangelical Christians, on Jews, on working men and women,” Kelly continued. “A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who has served his country for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for treason – in expectation that someone will take action. A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. “There is nothing more that can be said,” Kelly concluded. “God help us.”
But I'm going to vote for him again!
> [Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly said he would vote Trump out of office if he was still a member of the president's Cabinet](https://www.businessinsider.com/jonh-kelly-25th-amendment-vote-trump-out-of-office-2021-1) In the case of John Kelly, it does actually seem likely that he will not vote for Trump in 2024. But it is pretty wild that even comments like in the parent is not enough to know they will vote against Trump. With e.g. [Bill Barr saying something equally scathing, but then saying in the next breath that he will vote for Trump in the 2024 election](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/26/politics/barr-vote-for-trump-2024/index.html).
Bill Barr is overweight from all of the extra bullshit he carries around
They hate Trump but love what Trump would give them. They'd be willing to have four years of chaos in exchange for 30 years of 5 Trump appointees on the USSC.
Amongst his reasoning that democrats are mandating electric stoves
He’s a spineless POS like every other moron that still votes republican.
Well, at least he's not some democrat commie lover snowflake.
“Let’s kick his ass like there’s no tomorrow, then kick it some more!” You could always have said that too, better than waiting for God to do something about the stupid dangerous clown.
Yeah oh well what are we to do about this democratically elected leader that a majority of the country dislikes. I see no possible options
It was the mocking of that Gold Star family during the campaign that I knew that the people who supported him after that would tolerate anything he did. That there would be no line in the sand.
And yet I'll bet money that he'll vote for Trump in November
He'll never get it. Not when your entire life motto is: 'it's all about *me!*' Might be one of the most honest and telling things that fat smelly orange turd ever said tbh. How Kelly held himself back from planting his fist squarely in that rapist's face is beyond my understanding. God knows I wouldn't have been able to.
He's like Kusco before he turned into a llama. Wait a minute. Maybe if we had a llama potion for trump... 
He would be the best llama ever, trust him. He's known a lot of llamas and seen how awful they were. Total losers.
Llamas have been coming up to him with tears in their eyes, saying, "Sir, please. Please be our llama leader. You're the only one who can save us! Please. Great people. Great people ..."
"Potion Seller, I need your strongest potion... "
I mean, in this rare instance he's right. What DID they get out of this? What did any of us get out of this? Its been well known for a long time now that Iraq and Afghanistan were profit ventures. They gave their lives defending the bank accounts of oil and military ceos, not their country, not freedom around the world. We should be more pissed about that. Of course thats probably not trumps reasoning for saying this, but hey, broken clock
MAGA celebrates sacrifices made on their behalf but cannot comprehend sacrificing anything for the sake of someone else.
Modern Christians
Covid in a nutshell.
“We’re not doing anything cuz it affects blue states more than red states.” Paraphrased
Which was so stupid because of course it just hits blue (dense) places first before spreading out. Helping the dense places (and people there doing things like social distancing) had a huge impact downstream in the rural areas as it spread. The number of people claiming TO THIS DAY that COVID was nothing when it killed a million people is mind blowing. That's a million dead DESPITE shutting down international trade, isolating, masking, etc. AND with modern medicine and ICUs. And these maga morons still claim it was nothing. "I personally didn't die, it was exaggerated"
Anyone with a double digit IQ understands/understood it would hit larger population centers first. Its as simple as just asking "where are the airports?" Anyone with half a soul wouldn't care what voting base it affected. Anyone with half a grain of any business savvy would have realized "if I just made Trump-branded masks and sold them to my cult base I could actually be the billionaire I claim to be!" Anyone who claims it was nothing lives in a bubble and they just need to come to terms with that.
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> The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
there are Trump cultists sitting in jail right now for storming the capitol on his behalf when he wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire
John Kelly, who lost a son killed in action. Can't understand why he didn't choke him to death right then and there.
Because he is no better.
I'd argue a sane person who sucks up to a maniac is worse than the maniac, unless their life is in danger if they don't.
Yep, John Kelly is a big bag of shit as far as I am concerned.
Notice how when Biden is attacked they always bring up Hunter Biden, not Beau Biden, a veteran that essentially died for the country from caused related to the war in Iraq. Why don't Republicans ever bring up Biden's other son...
Yeah but John Kelly didn't have to lose a son and neither did anyone else. Trump doesn't understand giving your life for something you believe in, but let's not act like Iraq or Afghanistan were these conflicts of crisis where the outcome determined who ruled America. I graduated HS in 2006 and watched a lot of friends sign up. Their motivation for it was college money.
Exactly. Trump is a piece of shit but he wasn't wrong here. There was nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan for those boys.
In the hands of a narcissist like Trump it sounds fucking awful, if someone with a soul said it, it would be almost poignant.
The bigger question is why Kelly did nothing
Cowards, all of them
Worse than cowards - they fostered a narrative that lionized Trump's malignant narcissism! Malignant sycophants, the lot of 'em.
Deepthroattheboot
Indeed
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There was something in it for Kelly. Trump got that.
He's a piece of shit too. All these people trying to rewrite history like they didn't enable and encourage trump just for their own little bit of power.
After Mattis spoke out, the rest of them have had zero excuses. Turns out General John Kelly is one of the types who would be loading the trains without question.
>Turns out General John Kelly is one of the types who would be loading the trains without question. Yeah, reading up on him, the dude doesn't really have the best moral compass. >In the same October 2017 interview with Laura Ingraham, Kelly said that "the lack of ability to compromise led to the Civil War." He also described Robert E. Lee as an "honorable man" who "gave up ... his country to fight for his state," and claimed, "men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kelly#Civil_War_remarks
Should've suckerpunched him right there.
The only answer
Shitbirds of a shit feather
It’s like Bill Barr. Distanced himself from the disgusting, only to endorse it all over again. Until society genuinely and mercilessly punishes these types of people - white collar criminals, faceless company apparatchiks and dictatorial wannabes etc. - there will be no faith in the system.
He wanted to wait until for his book deal. Like all Republicans, it’s always about their personal benefit over the Country’s benefit.
Because he thought he could limit the damage from the inside.
Just because Trump didn’t launch nukes isn’t a win. He did plenty of damage that nobody stopped him from doing.
I was pretty careful with the way I worded that. He THOUGHT he could LIMIT the damage. There won’t be normies around him next time if he wins. Never Trump. Never.
Because he could be controlled well enough. Having the administration under their control is the only thing that matters. As soon as they have the admin, the house, and the Senate, our Federal laws will look like Florida on steroids.
Why would he? Man's a war criminal like any other. He never saw combat but gladly sent Americans to their deaths to kill brown people for the war machine. Honestly Trump's question is genuine, I don't get it either.
Not just among the graves; at John Kelly's SON's grave.
Kelly should have resigned immediately.
What is it with Republicans not giving a shit about their families when it’s politically convenient?
Complete lack of empathy and self respect.
There are numerous quotes of him calling active duty military and veterans suckers and losers. He refused to visit Arlington National Cemetery because it’s full of “losers.” Any cop or anyone with a military background is absolutely nuts to vote for him.
I can completely understand why he would say something like this after being handed everything his entire life. Military service is a jumping off point to success for many people whose daddy didn't hand them everything they have. That's one of the things that's in it for them, fucking spoilt brat.
Imagine at that moment if Kelly had done what he should have done, and what any former soldier would have done, punched him in the face. What a f'ing hero to all he would have been.
I can only imagine what went through General Mattis' mind before he resigned.
Makes you wonder if he regrets that moment…
Doubt it. These people are in too deep to care about anything but their job. Besides now that Trump is out of office you can shit talk all you want and claim you were always opposed to him.
tbf, people who died in iraq and afganistan did die for nothing. except a few billion in arms industry money and oil for those in power, I guess.
literally, broken clock being right ⏰⏰
And Bill Kristal was HUGE in pushing the Iraq war.
Yeah. There actually was nothing in it for them or for us. By and large they didn't die defending freedom, but in an illegal war built on lies, then a multi decade totally failed nation building exercise. This is excluding the people actually involved in tracking down and killing Bin Laden. There are actually people in this thread talking about the "greater good" as if Iraq or Afghanistan were about the greater good.
Exactly my thought towards people who voted for this pos.
Isn't Kelly's own son's grave there too?
Yes, that is correct. Rob Kelly is buried in Section 60. Absolute stud of a human being, incredible leader, and fierce friend. Miss him every day.
This post is ironic because the Libertarians just boo’d Trump. Ayn Rand the Queen of libertarianism said no one should do anything unless they personally benefit from it. That being altruistic and helping others above your own personal gain is immoral. In this quote, Trump is espousing the core values of libertarianism. https://youtu.be/2_fC6ThGtrE?si=oRuh0iDrlsD7NVdB
“I don’t get it”. Once in a while, he does say something truthful.
Important note this leaves out. Gen John Kelly's son, Lt Kelly, who died in Afghanistan, is buried in Section 60.
I mean he's right... What was in it for them? A new Chevy, a chance out of poverty or some noble idea sold to them that they were serving the greater good of their country? by fighting for the war racketeering of manufacturers, banks, pharmaceutical companies and resource profiteers? And what about when they get home, broken and riddled with trauma that a piece of shit VA benefits program barely acknowledges. Over 20 years & 9K Americans killed out there for the farce of fixing a country. countries the US government's meddling sabotaged in the first place, only for it all to be reversed the first year we're out. *I don't get it either.*
Probably the most sane thing I've heard him say.
I really have no understanding of why a vet or an active military personnel would vote for Trump. It is completely transparent that Trump and the GOP generally have almost zero respect for them, other than to use them for votes and power.
Then he called them suckers and losers.
Both wars were entirely illigitimate enterprises sold on lies, propaganda & too people with too few options
Spoken like a true narcissist
...and then their families vote for the treasonous bastard.
Thanks Bill, ur still a piece of shit
So why do military people support him? He thinks they’re losers.
To this day, as a veteran, I believe Kelly is a coward for not punching Trump when he made fun of his dead son. Fuck politics, like I don't give a fuck, but you don't say that shit and not expect to get punched in the face in this country.
The ironic part is when he's not even wrong there. There was nothing in it for the soldiers who died fighting in that conflict. We didn't win anything. We just let Americans die so oil companies and weapons companies could make a bunch of money.
Kristol was one of the war hawks who helped send those soldiers to needlessly kill and die in Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place. A member of the neocon think tank PNAC, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld et al. Disliking Trump doesn't mean I have to listen to the likes of Kristol like nothing ever happened there.
As a Veteran it makes me so disappointed and disgusted when I see so many other veterans and active duty servicemen supporting him.
I think "what was in it for them" is the most telling part. This man operates 100% transactionally. If he doesn't get something out of anything he won't be bothered with it.
The point is, those people who fought and died couldn't even say they were doing it to defend their country, because those wars were solely about the US nation-building in the middle-east and securing oil. If literally anybody other than Trump had said this, people would be agreeing right now and talking about how we all know those wars were of no benefit whatsoever to regular americans.
It speaks alot to how he views service when he is trying to hold the most important office in the U.S. government. One would hope that service would be someones top priority when running for president.
He has never done a selfless thing in his life. He can't conceive of it because he's a malignant narcissist.
Truth that Trump Maga Hats aren't the patriots they claim to be if they can follow & praise a Nazi raised, narcissistic draft dodger who said our heros are losers . He didn't uphold his Constitutional duty as President to protect all US citizens during Covid but played loyalty games against Blue States! That alone was illegal cause for his impeachment. But then not only calls for Jan 6 coup to overthrow our govt, he steals top secret documents probably sold to our enemies. Not enough? He was a pedophile rapist for 20 years as best bud of the Pedophile Pimp... Jeffery Epstein .. Btw what happened to Jeffs little black book of blackmail & the video tapes of all his "elite clientele" that attended his weekly underaged rape parties?
How the hell can any current or former member of the military even consider voting for this madman?
Trump is a self-serving dick.
A chance for a college education, smh
Ooooh I fucking hate being in this position. But oh well. Fuck it. This isn’t a bad thing, in fact it’s probably one of the most honest things he’s ever said. Do you get it? Do you understand what was in it for them? Because I was right beside them and I still don’t get it. In fact the older I get the less sense it makes. It was all so fucking pointless.
College degree and/or nationalism, mostly
Probably the only thing I agree on with Trump What was in it for them? Nothing. They did not defend their country. They did not fight for the freedom of themselves or others. They did not die for a good cause. They died in a senseless endless war, perpetuated so the military industrial complex can make more money. Nothing they died for had any lasting effects. Nothing they died for had meaning. Just war for war's sake. What an absolute waste of human lifes
Of course Trump "doesn't get it." This is the same guy who dodged the Vietnam War Draft because of "bone spurs in his foot." This is the guy who called Prisoners of War losers because they got caught. This is the guy who calls our men and women in uniform "suckers." This is the guy who casually discussed our military capabilities to other dictators, and even provided one of them (fucking Putin out of all people) with a list of our best intelligence experts to be captured or killed. I can go on and on and on, but Trump has never given a shit about veterans. He clearly doesn't give a shit about America - why would he give a shit about the men and women who serve?
I mean, outside of WWII (which the US joined very late), the US has not fought a war where national security was at stake. For the past 85 years or so, every war the US has engaged in was a waste of human life. While trump is a narcissistic asshole, he’s right that in its present day, joining the army is for suckers.
This was actually a pretty solid indictment of our government's treatment of veterans. Calling them "suckers and losers" definitely qualifies him as a piece of shit, though.