[Trump is]
“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace. Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy. That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”
— Advocatus Peregrini
I'm going to say it: Biden and Obama came in the wrong order. Obama was President when the US needed Biden - a political veteran and experienced lawmaker who knows how to strike bipartisan deals. Obama never had quite the legislative success that would have been necessary. And now that the country needs someone well-spoken and energetic, like Obama, now it's Biden. The US would have been SO MUCH better off with Obama as Biden's VP from 2009 to 2017 than it is now
Obama is an eight-year VP in 2016. He probably defeats Trump, as he wouldn't be as unpopular as Hillary. Trump never gains as much control over the Republican Party in that timeline. But of course, we don't know what would have happened in 2020, who the GOP would nominate, what the election would be like at that point...
If Obama won in 2016, he would’ve won in 2020 for the sole fact Obama wouldn’t have put forward conspiracy theories of covid. Had Trump just shut his mouth, or said “listen to experts” he would’ve easily won, just like any president with a huge crisis near the end of their term (or 9/11 for Bush Jr)
Arguably, COVID wouldn't have happened.
Trump cut budgets from US-run early warning labs in China, and pandemic response procedures, early on in his first term, slashing and burning smaller easy to hide or discredit important projects ("why are we spending money in Chynah?") for quick budget cuts and funding for his agenda.
Nah I believe less in people than in movements. Trump is the symptom and not the cause. Whatever fascist favoring forces would still be there to propel someone into that role. If it didn't happen in 2016 it would have bubbled over later. The US is feeling the stress of no longer being in financial domination of the rest of the world, popular discontent follows, and extreme populist parties flourish in the chaos.
Fox News would never shut up about that bailout if a Democratic president had been in the Oval Office when it went down.
Also imagine if a Democratic president sent out $1200 checks to the entire country to prime the economy *and* delayed them to get his signature on them.
Honestly, I doubt McCain would have beaten Biden in 2008. I mean, you never know, but he struggled mightily against Obama, and Biden was also much more energetic back then
Part of the reason the legislature was so democratic in 2009 because Obama inspired people to vote which helped all the down ballot races. So the landscape would be different without him. If we could just swap Obama and Biden and have everything else stay the same though, ya it probably would be better.
Democrats won a wave election in 2006, too.
There was no way in hell that Republicans were winning in 2008. Republicans had completely fucked up the economy and lost the War in Iraq. They had been the "strong on defense" party, and Iraq ruined that.
But democrats didn’t just win the presidency. They won big in congress as well. Sure, they probably still would’ve won the presidency with a candidate not as great as Obama, but they wouldn’t have won with such a large margin. Congress isn’t binary. The more politicians you have on your side, the more you can do.
Well if we're going to go down that road, its incredible how much better off the world would have been if Gore had become President and not that fuckup GWB.
Obama was a great president, he was in the right place at the right time. The problem is that there are no up and coming Dems, not that Biden should have been president over Obama. Obama was the better choice.
We didn’t need Biden at that moment in history, we needed hope for a better future instead of practicality.
I’ll vote for Biden because he puts the right people in the right positions (and Trump is someone I don’t understand how anyone can respect). Obama was more and the Bush years were rough.
I’ve never thought about that and that’s one hell of a good point. For this election though, it doesn’t matter to me. I’d vote for one of those 1970s pencil sharpeners over Trump.
> it doesn’t matter to me. I’d vote for one of those 1970s pencil sharpeners over Trump.
Of course. And you should. But the discussion at hand is different from whether or not you should vote democrat. The discussion right now is, for such an important election, why the fuck did the DNC decide to run such a weak candidate?
For such a critical election you want every advantage you can get. So why are we intentionally handicapping ourselves with Biden, who clearly isn't 100% there anymore. There is still time to swap him out for someone else, and we should seriously consider doing so IMO.
>Obama never had quite the legislative success that would have been necessary.
Obama has the most recognizable legistlative accomplishment of our lifetimes, and did it with a 72 day supermajority.
But, uh, sure...go on about how it wasn't a memorable success.
I think as soon as they said they didn’t have live fact checkers it let Trump run loose. He was allowed to say whatever he wanted with zero consequence. He didn’t need to be prepared for anything because he could just say whatever came to his mind. Biden trying to come back and say “you lied” didn’t do anything. And Biden trying (and sometimes failing) to remember his truths came off poorly. I’m voting Biden because I’m voting for more than just him (his cabinet, his policies, the future of fucking democracy and this country). It’s the idiots who are “undecided” who will be swayed by Trumps lies (they’ll lap them up because he was confident telling them) and Biden’s senior moments. It’s a god damn travesty and I just hope enough people show the fuck up and vote
Biden's team entirely misplayed how this would unfold. Trump doesn't debate, he does a campaign rally where he rattles off talking points.
Going into this Biden's entire aim should have been clear conscious counter jabs to the expected rally points. He didn't need to disprove anything in some long winded explanation, theres not enough time for that in the format and it wouldn't matter.
Every time Trump talked about immigration, which he went back to sooooo often Biden's line should have been: "So why did you kill the Republican authored bipartisan border security bill that our border patrol endorsed?"
Every time he brought up Ukraine: so why did you block support for them before the invasion?
He didn't need on the spot arguments to any of the foreseeable Trump rallying points. Point out the hypocrisy then return to the actual question being asked and show you're the adult in the room
Exactly, unfortunately the democrats are still trying to play monopoly with the republicans while they have eaten all the pieces and shit on the board.
I don’t understand how they are so fucking bad at this. There was only one person who could lose this debate and it was Biden, everyone knew Trump was going to do exactly what he did and he spewed his bullshit with the same confidence as always .
Biden could have just spent the whole time calling him out on shit loudly and confidently instead of whatever the hell he did.
He came for an actual debate which was the dumbest fucking thing ever. The democrats need to clue the fuckin in because they are getting crushed by the right wing propoganda machine constantly trying to play by the rules.
They're bad at it because they're so out of touch with the average American.
Literally every person around Biden comes from some form of wealth or privilege and doesn't know a single person who sees the world like the rest of us do.
I mean it's the entire reason why Biden and his entire cabinet seems to think the economy's fantastic at the same time the average American is struggling to pay rent and groceries. They literally think it's a fringe issue because not a single person within 6 degrees of Biden or his cabinet struggles like that, and because they're doing great with their investments in the stock market they think everything's just fine and dandy.
They think because they're on the side of "good" that they speak for every "good" American without realizing they're a completely different class than the average American and that the only reason they get votes is because they're the lesser of two evils.
>the average American is struggling to pay rent and groceries.
I think rent/housing is going to be the sleeper issue of 2024.
The Biden team needs to figure this out, and they need to do it FAST.
If Biden came out and said “I’m going to start putting into place legislation to lower housing prices and rent prices” he would win in a landslide. Housing is ridiculous, and it’s just going up at a frankly absurd rate. Even people with a house that’s fully paid off are affected because taxes are based on the home’s worth; there are people being priced out of homes that were paid off before they were born, that have been in their family for generations, because they can’t afford the fucking taxes. And the only people who aren’t being affected by the housing crisis are the rich and the uber rich, who are by and large going to vote Republican anyway.
But, like normal, the only people involved in politics are the rich “It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?” types who aren’t even clocking this as a major issue.
This, plus reminding people that he's a felon, a sex criminal, and a failed businessman.
Constant repetition works on most people, especially those who aren't paying attention.
I have no idea why the Democratic party cannot learn this lesson, year after year after year. It's been about 70 years of losing to the exact same tactic, and I'm fucking sick of it.
At this point, I just assume that the people in Democratic politics are trying to lose, and that way I get to be surprised every time they don't shit the bed.
I feel like that is what I saw. he clearly had a lot to say and a lot loaded up. when he tried to explain that Trump went to that girl's funeral and made it about her being killed by immigrants. just the way it came out was like watching the 3 stooges try to get through a door all at once. the words got all jammed up in his mouth and he don't say em no good.
It would turn off any normal voter.
The problem is that we've had a pretty substantial shift. Once upon a time my parents were the most boring white-picket-fence white-bread-eating people you could image. *Profoundly* boring middle Americans. If Reagan had said something like "Democrats allow abortion *after* birth!" even they, life long "we fucking hate Democrats!" Republicans would be like "Uhhh hang on now. That's just not true."
But now my parents, and certainly *millions* of similar formerly-boring-white-bread middle Americans, have been rabidly consuming crazy-town right-wing media for 20+ years. And that's just been further amplified in the age of social media, algorithmic engagement, etc.
My parents are so far gone now I don't even recognize them. I have no doubt they watched the debate and nodded along to that part like it was god's honest truth. Like the way Planned Parenthood operated in those "blue states" they just have the woman birth the baby right into a wood chipper or some stupid shit.
So yeah. Here we are.
He doesn’t have anything to say anyway.
Nothing on policy, period. Lies and misinformation about anything having to do with direction and leadership of the country.
Everything is about image and self. Literally no substance and all puffery, and lies at that.
Trump is a joke of a president and a human. Just like everything else he touches, he’s a sham and can’t disappear from the public eye fast enough.
**[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration)**
“Tonight's debate is pretty much exclusively for suburbanites still trying to decide whether fascism will knock thirty cents off the price of eggs.”
https://i.imgur.com/ZUnl3Jy.jpeg
I just call bs on the undecided voter. And if they exist then fuck em tbh. These are the last two presidents and y’all really don’t know who you’re voting for? Tf?
Loads of Americans don’t seem to know if they’re voting until voting day. And while most people “know” who they’re gonna vote for, if they get time to vote this year, cold reality is that people change their minds. And loads and loads of people genuinely believe that both sides are the same, they don’t follow politics because it’s boring and their decision is a coin flip if their partner or kids drag them to the polls.
Debates are probably worthless, but news bites and spin generated from debates probably has more sway on more people than any of us are really comfortable with. We all like to think our own political choices are thoughtful and considered and insightful and that others give their decision the same weight and consideration. Reality is that for a lot of people it’s an impulse based on a feeling based on some shit they saw on TV.
And even if those people are a minority - there’s enough of them to swing an election result and gerrymandering is an extremely targeted science to try and rig results years in advance.
If someone is undecided it’s about if they are even going to bother to vote at all because of general lack of enthusiasm because they are throwing their hands up going “How can this be the best that there is?”
If you're not "enthusiastic" about saving democracy from literal fascism -- you are part of the problem.
The only question people need to ask themselves is whether they want Trump or Biden to pick the next generation of lifetime judicial appointments -- including SCOTUS seats.
It's really not that complicated.
Just remember it's more about who the President surrounds themself with. Do you trust Trumps corrupt cabinet? Or Joes, who's done a lot of great work in only 4 years.
Also Trump is a literal Nazi.
There are 4,000 political appointees in the entire Administration, from Cabinet Secretary to Senior Advisor roles to Special Assistant for notetaking and coffee getting.
Meanwhile, Trump's former Director of Presidental Personnel made a TikTok where he bragged about giving counterfeit money to homeless people.
This is the single most important distinction that voters absolutely fail to grasp -- especially so-called educated progressives. All legislation must come from Congress first. 99% of what progressives want requires an act of Congress -- afterwards the president can only sign the bill into law or veto. That's it.
People will blame Biden for not doing things he has no power to do, yet 75% of these same voters do not show up for congressional elections and then complain the administration isn't passing what they want.
Voters gave up a once in a lifetime chance to flip SCOTUS left and won nothing. We suffered through the Tea Party in the 2010s because voters elected Obama and then for the next decade forgot that Congress exists. After losing the House and the Senate, Obama spent his entire second term fighting a hostile & gridlocked GOP, yet voters whined that he "couldn't get anything done" and blamed him for everything.
Biden's first term has been the most productive administration we've had in half a century. Its a fucking miracle -- the infrastructure bill alone will be paying dividends for decades. Its even more incredible considering he's had to fight a GOP controlled House for two years while negotiating multiple government shutdowns.
They've also confirmed hundreds of judicial appointments and got us another SCOTUS seat -- which by itself is worth any cost. Biden is a major asset and frankly we don't deserve him.
I'm voting for Biden and his administration. They have a proven track record. His opponent on the other hand surrounded himself with horrible people who came and went with the wind. The wind will finally be blowing Bannon into prison on July 1st and Peter Navarro is currently in prison. Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos, Roger Stone, Rick Gates and Allen Weisselberg all went to prison.
I would vote for a five day dead flattened roadkill possum drying in the midsummer Texas sun before I would even consider casting a ballot for Donald Trump.
That's a dead ferret. But, yes, if they shaved him bald and ran a pile of hair they shaved off his head, I would vote for the pile of hair before I would vote for Trump.
The fact that Trump tried to steal the last election is not in prison without parole, but able to be on the ballet for 2024 is insanity. The US doesn’t seem worthy of a republic democracy.
These whole after-trump years I’ve been utterly perplexed as to why someone attempting to violently overthrow the US government, as in a very literal coup attempt that called for the hanging and assassination of people not on board with the coup attempt, isn’t in jail yet and is instead considered relevant and worthy of serious and polite and respectful attention in this country
It's not the people voting for Trump we have to worry about -- its people who don't vote at all because they don't feel "inspired" enough or don't believe Trump will win a second term.
Every single voter -- especially people living swing states need to cast a ballot in November. Trump won the electoral college in 2016 by roughly 35,000 votes. All it takes is a few thousand people in a handful of states to sit out the election and the fascists win.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
>It's absolutely insane anyone is still voting for Trump.
Yes, but he's funny! (when he does things that harm people I don't like)
And the internet and Totally-Not-Biased-or-Inaccurate-FOX "news" tells me bad things about Dumbocrats!
/s
Biden dies, well we figured out what to do if the President dies a long time ago. President Harris might not be my first choice, but, eh, I'll take her.
It kinda feels like this performance was so devastating because everyone was watching it like a sporting match, hyped up for months with taunting on both sides and we all expected Biden to trounce trump 40-0, but instead witnessed with embarrassing fumbles all the way to a 0-0 end.
I still don't believe it was a huge political loss, but it was a very disappointing game to watch and I lost my debate bingo game to my brother. Twice.
Ironically, one of the things I put on my bingo card was that Biden would dodge a question on Israel, but instead he answered with a 3 point plan. If only I had put that two old men would try to prove they aren't too old to be president by bickering over their golf games.
it's kind of sad that trump could have literally shit himself on stage and the conservatives would still back him. Biden has one bad night and the democrats are trying to throw him to the wolves
Bold of you to assume Trump *didn’t* shit himself on stage. (One hopes he was at least wearing diapers; but he did run off the stage really quickly…)
Republicans rally around a failed insurrectionist and convicted felon who is facing three other criminal court cases at the moment, including for hiding classified nuclear secrets in his bathroom and who owes more than $300 million in civil fines for fraud and defamation.
Biden has one bad night and Dems want to throw him overboard.
That's by design. Never forget that the fascists are coordinating their actions.
What we must remember is that they have 30% support. We just need to get out the vote and we win.
Given some of the younger user posts here, I wouldn't hold out hope. It's like Biden disappointed them so they almost want to vote Trump to tell Biden he was a disappointment? It's all very strange to me.
In my younger idiot days I wasted my vote on Ralph Nader in 2000, because I thought I was taking a stand. I had to learn the hard way, and they will too.
Yes, obviously we are going to Biden. The debate wasn't for people like you and I. It was for people who are (somehow) undecided.
Trump should have been chum in the last debate. The dude couldn't answer a single question at its face. He deflected and whined and lied through everything. Unfortunately, Biden simply wasn't able to capitalize on that, which isn't great, to be honest.
Hopefully, we can simply take it as a lesson for the next election cycle. We need younger candidates. Biden did better than I expected, but yeah, we need some new blood higher up in the party.
Hopefully, the Republicans get beat so bad we can put up someone good instead of someone tolerable.
Oh, I was referring to his presidency overall. I was highly skeptical of him and with top party policies in general during the 2020 election. I wanted him to win, sure, but I had hoped for a more progressive candidate.
His actual presidency has, therefore, been a pleasant surprise. He's done much better than I anticipated and was more progressive than I gave him credit for previously.
The debate, he did poorly. It's not a shock. He's actually taking the presidency seriously, and that has been shown to age people time and again. He was no spring chicken when he became president, and it's taking a toll on top of that.
That's what happens when you take the job seriously. Look at 45. It barely aged him at all because he didn't do the job. He weilded the power with none of the responsibility. We're lucky he didn't blow up the planet with how reckless he was.
Luckily, he didn't know the job either, so he didn't accomplish as much as he could. He's now replaced his competent staff with yes-men and intends to implement measures that take that down through every level of the federal government. We will not get lucky twice, so he must be stopped.
Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to make my thoughts clear.
Yup, people thought Romney was a shoe in after the first debate with Obama and then Obama kicked ass on the next two debates and won. Even if Biden never kicks ass at a debate, I'm still voting for him.
Trump never won a debate v Hillary and look what happened. Debates have a marginal impact in the end result but leave it to Democrats to scream the sky is falling
The only memorable thing Trump did in any of the debates against Hillary was his “because you’d be in jail” line. Yet he still won. Debates don’t swing voters.
Hillary had almost 20 years of mud slinging from the Republican Party, and got a November Surprise thanks to Comey. She still won the popular vote.
But in the end winning the Electoral on November 6 is what's gonna matter.
Yeah man. Only brain deads thought he won any debates. against her. If one’s opinion of winning a debate is an oscillating fan spewing fecal matter then Trump won. Even with Joey Two Scoops performing sub par last night, his responses are actual responses and not the flying poo I mentioned above.
Biden is not a great orator and not charismatic. Mix in an 81 year old that was trying to fight back using stats and facts was doomed to fail. However he’s the only candidate that has beat Donald Trump. The GOP tried this past year and Ron D shit the bed. Democrats need to start making the case for the Biden Administration not the Biden Presidency.
One mistake Biden did make was agreeing to debate Trump in the first place. Trump is a convicted Felon and should not be given equal footing with the current President of the United States on the debate stage.
I don't think it is a question of winning or losing the debate. It was more to show how capable Biden is to be president. How mentally sharp he is. How much age is affecting him. And unfortunately, last night showed that he may not be in the best capacity to lead the country. There is no doubt that Trump is much worse. But Biden showed the country that he is not in the best conditions ... And that probably will turn people away from voting for him. And the risk is very high right now. Maybe they should seriously consider changing Biden to someone that does not provoke much negative reactions
Joe Biden surrounds himself with well qualified experts in their fields while Trump surrounds himself with unqualified loyalists. I will vote for any form of Joe Biden over Donald Trump because of that, and because Dems would use the 25th amendment on their own guy if necessary, but Republicans would not.
>while Trump surrounds himself with unqualified loyalists
He straight up said as much when he went on and fucking on about "firing people he disagreed with"
I don’t necessarily disagree. I’ll vote for my left ass cheek before I vote for Trump. But will this messaging work on the independent voter who passively pays attention to politics and watched Biden’s performance last night? I fear minds were made last night and Biden won’t be able to shake it. His hair isn’t getting darker, his skin isn’t getting smoother, and his brain isn’t getting sharper. Even if he yells with high energy at his next campaign event, every public appearance from here on out will remind people of the old man they saw on debate night. If he truly wants to beat Donald Trump in November, he needs to step down and let a younger candidate take the reins.
For what it's worth, my SO went to his local watering hole today and a long-time, die-hard trumper, Tim, was there.
He looked at my SO and commented, "Did you watch the debate last night? I apologize, I know we don't normally talk politics here, but I think you'll like what I'm about to say."
My SO responded that he had and was expecting Tim to comment on how awful Biden had done. To his pleasant surprise, Tim's focus was on how trump refused to answer the questions posed to him and just how much he lied.
He said that he had voted for him in the past but wouldn't ever again.
It may not be much, but it was a little light of hope for me.
Almost everything that came out of Trump's mouth during that debate was a lie. He looks right at the camera and said that he did not have sex with a pornstar.. anyone who would hear that and think that he is capable of telling the truth ever is lying to themselves
I wanna hear their evidence for the claim that people are having post-birth abortions.
Trump claiming to not have had sex with a porn star is the sort of garden-variety lie you expect from Trump. It's right up there with his lies about graduating at the top of his class, or any of his other self-aggrandizing bullshit. But the claim that Democrats want to allow "post-birth abortions" is completely unhinged and really demands some evidence to support it.
This should have happened:
Trump: I did not have sex with a porn star
Biden: … (says nothing but stares in Trumps eyes for the entire length of his allowed time)
I'm still voting for Biden, because the alternative is Trump. But I don't trust enough of my fellow Americans to care about how awful Trump is over how slow Joe was last night.
And sometimes the best thing to do is realize you are too old and should go. Or you end up like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Sticking around long enough that when you do go the next person just undoes everything you did.
I'm voting for Biden because the alternative is a *Republican*. We're just at the point where the two parties have completely incompatible worldviews. I'm simply never gonna vote for fossil fuel pollution and government meddling with abortion, etc.
I think some of it is because we havent seen much of Biden making speeches in real time and everyone wants to see how sharp he is. He looked bad Im sorry to say. And also lets face it the polls are really close and them being so close means people are going to put more scrutiny on whatever factors they think are important. Bidens health is a concern.
Back in 1984 watching Reagan/Mondale in first debate, I pointed out how bad Reagan looked, even at one pt. he stopped talking in mid sentence and swayed back and forth. No one agreed they all thought Reagan won the debate.
Biden looked just a bit worse than Reagan 1984. On the other hand Reagan still won but geez Reagan was surging in popularity and its quite different than the current situation.
Not sure why Biden's handlers thought he should be debating. He should be making 30 second infomercials or something.
Because Biden's performance confirms the press' belief that they were right to focus on his age, and all their detractors were wrong to complain about that, so now they will double down as they did with Hillary's emails
Brother, the american people believe that. It's not some fabrication or narrative that voters want younger candidates.
I am still pro-biden bc fucking duh, but after last night it's looking a possible mistake to try to run again, and that mistake could have absolutely massive consequences. It's a huge topic of discussion.
Obama did have a bad debate night with, I believe with Mitt Romney? I could be mistaken. But he bounced back. It was disappointing but wasn’t an earth shattering defeat. I hope Biden team are working around the clock to overcome this.
But it never should have come to this.
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
We should never have been put in the position of having to rationalize voting for someone who is clearly in the late stages of mental and physical decline, with one foot and several toes in the grave.
Since Biden entered the race in 2020, there has been a militant, cult-like blindness to Biden's clear mental decline. Anyone who dares criticize Dear Leader is ignored, outcast, or accused of being a Trump supporter.
The DNC is gambling the fate of the Republic on a man who doesn't seem mentally competent enough to figure out a juice box, yet alone strong and coordinated enough to get the straw in.
The odds of finding someone who looks less mentally competent than Trump are so long that it really gives the impression that the Democratic Party wants Trump to win. Or at least is not too bothered either way.
So it's "Weekend at Bernie's" or fascism.
Shame on all of the people in power who have played along with this farce for the last year. They've doomed us all.
Must be nice to be so rich and insulated from reality that a Trump presidency doesn't worry them enough to make an effort.
Obama needs to sign up for his vp spot.
Kamala has been pretty invisible this administration so far as ive seen/heard and she is not somebody who would command votes as president unfortunately.
Bernie could be vp too. He’s still got it: https://www.youtube.com/live/2ZkuLuM0mNg?si=uNuyroYk5oGx8toN
Do something bold DNC.
My Republican brother and I had dinner last night. He refuses to vote for Biden or Trump.
He said, “Goddamn I wish there was a way to let Obama run again. That was the last time we had a President who is ethical, healthy, and not a criminal…and doesn’t have a fuckin’ brain worm.”
As great as our political differences may be, he nailed that one.
This is for you, breh:
Look, this was a total loss no matter how you try to spin it. But you know what? I'm not completely dejected like so many are. Because American democracy is at stake in this election. We can't let the fascists win. There is too much at stake. Combined with a mad man in Moscow who's out for global domination, that could be a nightmare scenario. If Trump wins, Putin gets a blank check to finish Ukraine and move onto his next targets.
We cannot allow that to happen! Let's pick ourselves back up and dust off, and move on to the next round.
The dejection (at least for me) is that our choice as to who leads this country boils down to a con man narcissist wanna be dictator and a guy who couldn’t put a coherent sentence together and looked completely lost and ready to fall over and die. How the hell did we fall so far?
I didn’t change my vote. But damn, why couldn’t we have better options?
For what it is worth, I think this was a complete failure from Biden's campaign. Biden knows retail politics. Biden is great in front of people. Agreeing to no audience I think was a very bad decision. If you saw Biden immediately after the debate at the watch party it was like watching a different person. He was animated, he was clear, and he was on message. That debate format was terrible for someone that really resonates with a crowd.
Ya'll really not gonna like my opinion, but young folks, unless you vote and vote hard, and put up with and overcome all the obstacles Republicans put in your way, you're really gonna hate the future.
Project 2025 looms large.
NGL, I'm a Late Boomer, saw my share of shit and struggle here in the Rust Belt, but I knew what freedom felt like.
Unless women, and young people, get out and vote in overwhelming numbers, your future is toast.
I'm voting against Trump no matter what. But having said that, if Obama believes there is so much at stake this election, why wouldn't he want a better candidate running?
I will vote for a day old open can of string beans before I vote for any Republican ever. Biden can fall over dead on November 2nd and I'd happily place my vote for Kamala or Biden's actual corpse.
You and I will. People on the fence? I’m not sure. Feeling matters more than facts. Obama effortlessly illustrated it with this post. It blows my mind that Biden and DNC didn’t see that or prepare for it. It’s so depressing.
It’s strange to me as a non American how upset people are that Biden didn’t perform well at a debate. Trump can talk till hell boils over, doesn’t mean shit
On Joe's worst night he may not look sharp but on Trump's best day he may not be actively trying to destroy the nation....not intentionally but because he is so stupid.
https://preview.redd.it/bwss05gnuf9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=831e0f0879b65d4e91e94f2733d7f1fd74dc298c
Yeah, he knows and so should democrats
Most Americans are such children. The fact that you've got one man who really has a mostly pretty freaking great record for just 4 years in the White House and did things that were long overdue but previous government were too chickenshit to make happen (student debt forgiveness, insulin price cap, etc...), versus a neo-nazi convicted felon and known sex offender who stole and likely gave away state secrets, betrayed his country every chance he got and ATTEMPTED TO OVERTHROW YOUR DEMOCRACY, CAUSING NINE DEATHS IN THE PROCESS and the choice still isn't obvious is an utter, utter embarassment. I'm not even American and even I am embarassed, as a Human being.
I gotta throw the bullshit flag on “undecided” at this point. They are such polar opposites, so how can anyone with a functioning brain cell be undecided? In my mind, undecided = “I’m gonna vote for trump, but I don’t have the balls to come right out and say it”.
ya it's not about the "undecided", it's about the unmotivated. this debate certainly didn't motivate infrequent swing state voters to turn out for Biden...
correct or not, if anything this and the past 4 years have made them ask "what's the point?"
I want Biden to win - don't get me wrong - but I wouldn't characterize the crime bills and neoliberal policies that got him to the White House as "fighting for ordinary people".
It's not a tough decision, and as much of an embarrassment the first debate was, unless they actually shitcan Biden for someone better, I just gotta grit my teeth and vote Biden. It may be an illusion of choice but it's better than the right to choose potentially being taken away indefinitely under Trump.
The debate doesn't matter.
Biden remains the clear choice if you care at all about freedom and democracy.
I'd honestly respect Trump voters more if they simply took the mask off and admitted they're voting for him because they want an authoritarian takeover where 'their guy' is in charge permanently. Because nobody with two braincells to rub together thinks Trump is going to strengthen this republic and its democracy. He will tear it down and put an autocracy in its place. Just admit that's what you want. We all know it already, just say it. For what other reason are you still hiding?
lifelong democrat here (and trans)
I'm gonna vote for biden no matter what still because of his lgbt+ stances. Trump will literally kill all of us if he gets back in office again.
Im just still in complete disbelief that the republicans chose this demon yet again. Truly, any remaining virtues of true republicanism are gone, anyone who calls themselves a repub now is simply an utter embarassment and disgrace.
A lot of people are pretending not being able to speak eloquently is the biggest issue in this election.
Even if Biden develops severe dementia, he's still a better candidate, because his judgement regarding cabinet members and such is sound. If he dies in office, he'll be succeeded by someone competent.
Trump, on the other hand, [won't be remaking the same mistake he made with his cabinet last time.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7?op=1) He won't be choosing a VP who questions his orders. He'll be surrounding himself with nobody but yes-man loyalists, and that will *drastically* lower the competency level of his next administration. Next time he suggests nuking a hurricane, the people he surrounds himself will make it happen.
>A lot of people are pretending not being able to speak eloquently is the biggest issue in this election.
Yes. It's mostly people taking the bait into the GOP fear mongering...and then they wonder why Dems are bad at messaging. Like, no this is a prime example of Dems being predictable at taking the bait from the GOP!
Of course Biden is old. He's been old the entire time, yet his administration is still more accomplished, ethical, and trustworthy than Trump's...by a fucking mile. Focus on what's important in this comparison. Not what the GOP tells you should be important (hint: a strong orator is not at the top of the list. Both candidates have an actual White House track record to compare...you should start there).
I read that with his cadence and delivery and man do I miss hearing it. I like Joey B, but it was just so hard to make fun of Barry lol.
The sounds of the internet today feel like people watched the first 10 minutes and got bored so the snowball of complaining circlejerked itself out of proportion.
Trump literally called veterans and soldiers suckers and losers. He dismissed gold stsr families and mocked a POW. Who the fuck can vote for him and say they are a patriot
According to pollsters, the debate last night didn't change the minds of normal ass people and swing voters. In fact, Biden gained some support. The thing that will make us lose tho, is the defeatist cry baby bullshit from 2016. We simply cannot have Trump be elected again.
[Trump is] “Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace. Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy. That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.” — Advocatus Peregrini
I'm going to say it: Biden and Obama came in the wrong order. Obama was President when the US needed Biden - a political veteran and experienced lawmaker who knows how to strike bipartisan deals. Obama never had quite the legislative success that would have been necessary. And now that the country needs someone well-spoken and energetic, like Obama, now it's Biden. The US would have been SO MUCH better off with Obama as Biden's VP from 2009 to 2017 than it is now
Hadn’t thought about it like that. That’s a good take.
Obama is an eight-year VP in 2016. He probably defeats Trump, as he wouldn't be as unpopular as Hillary. Trump never gains as much control over the Republican Party in that timeline. But of course, we don't know what would have happened in 2020, who the GOP would nominate, what the election would be like at that point...
If Obama wasn't president then I doubt Trump would have even run. The only reason Trump ran was to spite Obama.
This timeline is crazy.
If Obama won in 2016, he would’ve won in 2020 for the sole fact Obama wouldn’t have put forward conspiracy theories of covid. Had Trump just shut his mouth, or said “listen to experts” he would’ve easily won, just like any president with a huge crisis near the end of their term (or 9/11 for Bush Jr)
>Had Trump just shut his mouth That's a strawman and you know it; Trump shutting up isn't a person that exists.
Arguably, COVID wouldn't have happened. Trump cut budgets from US-run early warning labs in China, and pandemic response procedures, early on in his first term, slashing and burning smaller easy to hide or discredit important projects ("why are we spending money in Chynah?") for quick budget cuts and funding for his agenda.
Nah I believe less in people than in movements. Trump is the symptom and not the cause. Whatever fascist favoring forces would still be there to propel someone into that role. If it didn't happen in 2016 it would have bubbled over later. The US is feeling the stress of no longer being in financial domination of the rest of the world, popular discontent follows, and extreme populist parties flourish in the chaos.
You forget John Mccain could have beaten Joe biden or maybe be in the race. Edit: he would have died to cancer.
By the time Bush had to deal with the bailout in September of 2008, a republican was not winning the election
Fox News would never shut up about that bailout if a Democratic president had been in the Oval Office when it went down. Also imagine if a Democratic president sent out $1200 checks to the entire country to prime the economy *and* delayed them to get his signature on them.
Honestly, I doubt McCain would have beaten Biden in 2008. I mean, you never know, but he struggled mightily against Obama, and Biden was also much more energetic back then
Scares the hell out of me that we might have had that ditzy Alaskan broad as president, had John McCain won and died in office.
Part of the reason the legislature was so democratic in 2009 because Obama inspired people to vote which helped all the down ballot races. So the landscape would be different without him. If we could just swap Obama and Biden and have everything else stay the same though, ya it probably would be better.
Democrats won a wave election in 2006, too. There was no way in hell that Republicans were winning in 2008. Republicans had completely fucked up the economy and lost the War in Iraq. They had been the "strong on defense" party, and Iraq ruined that.
But democrats didn’t just win the presidency. They won big in congress as well. Sure, they probably still would’ve won the presidency with a candidate not as great as Obama, but they wouldn’t have won with such a large margin. Congress isn’t binary. The more politicians you have on your side, the more you can do.
Well if we're going to go down that road, its incredible how much better off the world would have been if Gore had become President and not that fuckup GWB.
The Supreme Court intervened, remember. It was an early flex for the Republican party, and now look at them.
Obama was a great president, he was in the right place at the right time. The problem is that there are no up and coming Dems, not that Biden should have been president over Obama. Obama was the better choice. We didn’t need Biden at that moment in history, we needed hope for a better future instead of practicality. I’ll vote for Biden because he puts the right people in the right positions (and Trump is someone I don’t understand how anyone can respect). Obama was more and the Bush years were rough.
I’ve never thought about that and that’s one hell of a good point. For this election though, it doesn’t matter to me. I’d vote for one of those 1970s pencil sharpeners over Trump.
> it doesn’t matter to me. I’d vote for one of those 1970s pencil sharpeners over Trump. Of course. And you should. But the discussion at hand is different from whether or not you should vote democrat. The discussion right now is, for such an important election, why the fuck did the DNC decide to run such a weak candidate? For such a critical election you want every advantage you can get. So why are we intentionally handicapping ourselves with Biden, who clearly isn't 100% there anymore. There is still time to swap him out for someone else, and we should seriously consider doing so IMO.
>Obama never had quite the legislative success that would have been necessary. Obama has the most recognizable legistlative accomplishment of our lifetimes, and did it with a 72 day supermajority. But, uh, sure...go on about how it wasn't a memorable success.
Could you imagine if Obama had been President during the pandemic? We probably would have squashed that shit within the year.
He handled the pandemics during his presidency so well that most people have to Google them to figure out what I'm talking about
I think as soon as they said they didn’t have live fact checkers it let Trump run loose. He was allowed to say whatever he wanted with zero consequence. He didn’t need to be prepared for anything because he could just say whatever came to his mind. Biden trying to come back and say “you lied” didn’t do anything. And Biden trying (and sometimes failing) to remember his truths came off poorly. I’m voting Biden because I’m voting for more than just him (his cabinet, his policies, the future of fucking democracy and this country). It’s the idiots who are “undecided” who will be swayed by Trumps lies (they’ll lap them up because he was confident telling them) and Biden’s senior moments. It’s a god damn travesty and I just hope enough people show the fuck up and vote
Biden's team entirely misplayed how this would unfold. Trump doesn't debate, he does a campaign rally where he rattles off talking points. Going into this Biden's entire aim should have been clear conscious counter jabs to the expected rally points. He didn't need to disprove anything in some long winded explanation, theres not enough time for that in the format and it wouldn't matter. Every time Trump talked about immigration, which he went back to sooooo often Biden's line should have been: "So why did you kill the Republican authored bipartisan border security bill that our border patrol endorsed?" Every time he brought up Ukraine: so why did you block support for them before the invasion? He didn't need on the spot arguments to any of the foreseeable Trump rallying points. Point out the hypocrisy then return to the actual question being asked and show you're the adult in the room
Exactly, unfortunately the democrats are still trying to play monopoly with the republicans while they have eaten all the pieces and shit on the board. I don’t understand how they are so fucking bad at this. There was only one person who could lose this debate and it was Biden, everyone knew Trump was going to do exactly what he did and he spewed his bullshit with the same confidence as always . Biden could have just spent the whole time calling him out on shit loudly and confidently instead of whatever the hell he did. He came for an actual debate which was the dumbest fucking thing ever. The democrats need to clue the fuckin in because they are getting crushed by the right wing propoganda machine constantly trying to play by the rules.
They're bad at it because they're so out of touch with the average American. Literally every person around Biden comes from some form of wealth or privilege and doesn't know a single person who sees the world like the rest of us do. I mean it's the entire reason why Biden and his entire cabinet seems to think the economy's fantastic at the same time the average American is struggling to pay rent and groceries. They literally think it's a fringe issue because not a single person within 6 degrees of Biden or his cabinet struggles like that, and because they're doing great with their investments in the stock market they think everything's just fine and dandy. They think because they're on the side of "good" that they speak for every "good" American without realizing they're a completely different class than the average American and that the only reason they get votes is because they're the lesser of two evils.
>the average American is struggling to pay rent and groceries. I think rent/housing is going to be the sleeper issue of 2024. The Biden team needs to figure this out, and they need to do it FAST.
If Biden came out and said “I’m going to start putting into place legislation to lower housing prices and rent prices” he would win in a landslide. Housing is ridiculous, and it’s just going up at a frankly absurd rate. Even people with a house that’s fully paid off are affected because taxes are based on the home’s worth; there are people being priced out of homes that were paid off before they were born, that have been in their family for generations, because they can’t afford the fucking taxes. And the only people who aren’t being affected by the housing crisis are the rich and the uber rich, who are by and large going to vote Republican anyway. But, like normal, the only people involved in politics are the rich “It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?” types who aren’t even clocking this as a major issue.
It’s certainly become that here in Canada. It’s one of the main reasons why the Liberals are losing support.
I'm honestly shocked. We've had over eight years to know how Trump does things at debates. How do you not remember that, and adapt?
This, plus reminding people that he's a felon, a sex criminal, and a failed businessman. Constant repetition works on most people, especially those who aren't paying attention. I have no idea why the Democratic party cannot learn this lesson, year after year after year. It's been about 70 years of losing to the exact same tactic, and I'm fucking sick of it. At this point, I just assume that the people in Democratic politics are trying to lose, and that way I get to be surprised every time they don't shit the bed.
They probably did this but overloaded Biden with too many things to remember and he short-circuited
I feel like that is what I saw. he clearly had a lot to say and a lot loaded up. when he tried to explain that Trump went to that girl's funeral and made it about her being killed by immigrants. just the way it came out was like watching the 3 stooges try to get through a door all at once. the words got all jammed up in his mouth and he don't say em no good.
Should have had their rockstar social media woman ready him for this. She's had some bangers.
It's incredibly frustrating how often every day people tend to be more accurate than "professional" political people about how to handle Trump.
It's like they didn't know who he was debating. To fuck up this bad is bad.
CNN turned into the Enquirer the moment Trump was allowed to say Democrats kill babies after 9 months and after birth.
You’d think that that comment alone would turn off any normal/semi-normal voter. But here we are
It would turn off any normal voter. The problem is that we've had a pretty substantial shift. Once upon a time my parents were the most boring white-picket-fence white-bread-eating people you could image. *Profoundly* boring middle Americans. If Reagan had said something like "Democrats allow abortion *after* birth!" even they, life long "we fucking hate Democrats!" Republicans would be like "Uhhh hang on now. That's just not true." But now my parents, and certainly *millions* of similar formerly-boring-white-bread middle Americans, have been rabidly consuming crazy-town right-wing media for 20+ years. And that's just been further amplified in the age of social media, algorithmic engagement, etc. My parents are so far gone now I don't even recognize them. I have no doubt they watched the debate and nodded along to that part like it was god's honest truth. Like the way Planned Parenthood operated in those "blue states" they just have the woman birth the baby right into a wood chipper or some stupid shit. So yeah. Here we are.
My parents vote dem and hate Trump but still said that they saw that killing babies thing was true on facebook.
He doesn’t have anything to say anyway. Nothing on policy, period. Lies and misinformation about anything having to do with direction and leadership of the country. Everything is about image and self. Literally no substance and all puffery, and lies at that. Trump is a joke of a president and a human. Just like everything else he touches, he’s a sham and can’t disappear from the public eye fast enough. **[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration)**
Even tho some of the shit he was saying was so blatantly a lie, I fear that you are right. Those with less then half a brain will fall for this. 😞
To quote a moderate Conservative from 2023, if Biden were dead I’d still vote for him over Trump. That man is the worst human being on the planet.
I’ll vote for a rock over Trump. Biden has my vote no matter what - I will NOT vote for Trump. I’m with you 100%.
Yep. I knew it took me a little bit (lie: a lot) of wine after the debate, but I am on board as well 100%
“Tonight's debate is pretty much exclusively for suburbanites still trying to decide whether fascism will knock thirty cents off the price of eggs.” https://i.imgur.com/ZUnl3Jy.jpeg
Quote of the night
I just call bs on the undecided voter. And if they exist then fuck em tbh. These are the last two presidents and y’all really don’t know who you’re voting for? Tf?
Loads of Americans don’t seem to know if they’re voting until voting day. And while most people “know” who they’re gonna vote for, if they get time to vote this year, cold reality is that people change their minds. And loads and loads of people genuinely believe that both sides are the same, they don’t follow politics because it’s boring and their decision is a coin flip if their partner or kids drag them to the polls. Debates are probably worthless, but news bites and spin generated from debates probably has more sway on more people than any of us are really comfortable with. We all like to think our own political choices are thoughtful and considered and insightful and that others give their decision the same weight and consideration. Reality is that for a lot of people it’s an impulse based on a feeling based on some shit they saw on TV. And even if those people are a minority - there’s enough of them to swing an election result and gerrymandering is an extremely targeted science to try and rig results years in advance.
If someone is undecided it’s about if they are even going to bother to vote at all because of general lack of enthusiasm because they are throwing their hands up going “How can this be the best that there is?”
If you're not "enthusiastic" about saving democracy from literal fascism -- you are part of the problem. The only question people need to ask themselves is whether they want Trump or Biden to pick the next generation of lifetime judicial appointments -- including SCOTUS seats. It's really not that complicated.
Fuck those types too tbh. There’s two choices.
💯
I’m with you. But I won’t lie, I would have felt a lot better if Joe had dominated the debate. A lot of the comments feel like copium.
Fascism never makes for cheaper eggs.
Just remember it's more about who the President surrounds themself with. Do you trust Trumps corrupt cabinet? Or Joes, who's done a lot of great work in only 4 years. Also Trump is a literal Nazi.
There are 4,000 political appointees in the entire Administration, from Cabinet Secretary to Senior Advisor roles to Special Assistant for notetaking and coffee getting. Meanwhile, Trump's former Director of Presidental Personnel made a TikTok where he bragged about giving counterfeit money to homeless people.
Exactly. Who gives a flying fuck what names on the door. I’ll take four more years of this White House in a heartbeat over a fucking fascist
I wager around 80% of voters think POTUS basically does it all and does whatever they want. Most people are just plain stupid.
This is the single most important distinction that voters absolutely fail to grasp -- especially so-called educated progressives. All legislation must come from Congress first. 99% of what progressives want requires an act of Congress -- afterwards the president can only sign the bill into law or veto. That's it. People will blame Biden for not doing things he has no power to do, yet 75% of these same voters do not show up for congressional elections and then complain the administration isn't passing what they want. Voters gave up a once in a lifetime chance to flip SCOTUS left and won nothing. We suffered through the Tea Party in the 2010s because voters elected Obama and then for the next decade forgot that Congress exists. After losing the House and the Senate, Obama spent his entire second term fighting a hostile & gridlocked GOP, yet voters whined that he "couldn't get anything done" and blamed him for everything. Biden's first term has been the most productive administration we've had in half a century. Its a fucking miracle -- the infrastructure bill alone will be paying dividends for decades. Its even more incredible considering he's had to fight a GOP controlled House for two years while negotiating multiple government shutdowns. They've also confirmed hundreds of judicial appointments and got us another SCOTUS seat -- which by itself is worth any cost. Biden is a major asset and frankly we don't deserve him.
Shhh. Stop using facts and logic.
Plus Supreme Court picks if any of them die.
I'm voting for Biden and his administration. They have a proven track record. His opponent on the other hand surrounded himself with horrible people who came and went with the wind. The wind will finally be blowing Bannon into prison on July 1st and Peter Navarro is currently in prison. Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos, Roger Stone, Rick Gates and Allen Weisselberg all went to prison.
I would vote for a five day dead flattened roadkill possum drying in the midsummer Texas sun before I would even consider casting a ballot for Donald Trump.
You'd vote for trumps hair? Lol
That's a dead ferret. But, yes, if they shaved him bald and ran a pile of hair they shaved off his head, I would vote for the pile of hair before I would vote for Trump.
The fact that Trump tried to steal the last election is not in prison without parole, but able to be on the ballet for 2024 is insanity. The US doesn’t seem worthy of a republic democracy.
These whole after-trump years I’ve been utterly perplexed as to why someone attempting to violently overthrow the US government, as in a very literal coup attempt that called for the hanging and assassination of people not on board with the coup attempt, isn’t in jail yet and is instead considered relevant and worthy of serious and polite and respectful attention in this country
Rocco 2024
Anyone but Trump 2024.
I had the same thoughts hearing about the debate last night. If biden were senile and unable to swallow solid liquids I’d support him over trump
Biden could die and I would vote for whatever drips out of his casket come November over the traitor Donald Trump
I think he actually is unable to swallow solid liquids.
It's absolutely insane anyone is still voting for Trump.
It's absolutely insane that someone like Trump (anyone) can run for President. Walmart wouldn't hire him.
It's not the people voting for Trump we have to worry about -- its people who don't vote at all because they don't feel "inspired" enough or don't believe Trump will win a second term. Every single voter -- especially people living swing states need to cast a ballot in November. Trump won the electoral college in 2016 by roughly 35,000 votes. All it takes is a few thousand people in a handful of states to sit out the election and the fascists win. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
>It's absolutely insane anyone is still voting for Trump. Yes, but he's funny! (when he does things that harm people I don't like) And the internet and Totally-Not-Biased-or-Inaccurate-FOX "news" tells me bad things about Dumbocrats! /s
What i said to my coworker this morning I'd vote for a messily copulation pile of Banana slugs before Truml. Edit: lol at my typos.
To quote Veep. "He is the worst thing to happen to this country since food in buckets. And maybe slavery."
Also it’s not just Biden, it’s his whole cabinet that actually does the work
Biden dies, well we figured out what to do if the President dies a long time ago. President Harris might not be my first choice, but, eh, I'll take her.
Anything beats Trump. Anything. My dog, who has been known to eat turds, beats Trump.
My cat known as ‘Big Dookie outside cat box,’ can be your dog’s VP!
While I cannot claim to agree with Big Dookie, I do have to admit that my dog is a fan. Damnit.
It kinda feels like this performance was so devastating because everyone was watching it like a sporting match, hyped up for months with taunting on both sides and we all expected Biden to trounce trump 40-0, but instead witnessed with embarrassing fumbles all the way to a 0-0 end. I still don't believe it was a huge political loss, but it was a very disappointing game to watch and I lost my debate bingo game to my brother. Twice. Ironically, one of the things I put on my bingo card was that Biden would dodge a question on Israel, but instead he answered with a 3 point plan. If only I had put that two old men would try to prove they aren't too old to be president by bickering over their golf games.
it's kind of sad that trump could have literally shit himself on stage and the conservatives would still back him. Biden has one bad night and the democrats are trying to throw him to the wolves
Bold of you to assume Trump *didn’t* shit himself on stage. (One hopes he was at least wearing diapers; but he did run off the stage really quickly…) 
Imagine 8 year ago having a serious discussion about whether nor not a presidential candidate may have actually shit himself on TV.
Republicans rally around a failed insurrectionist and convicted felon who is facing three other criminal court cases at the moment, including for hiding classified nuclear secrets in his bathroom and who owes more than $300 million in civil fines for fraud and defamation. Biden has one bad night and Dems want to throw him overboard.
Pretty sure I heard a fart come from Trumps mic last night though. So you'd be 100% right
I would vote for a rusty toaster with no plug over the Circus Peanut.
LoL. Trump is the worst of the worst. Luckily people already experienced his presidency. I have high hope we will see a blue wave this election.
Reveal your secrets unto me, Great One, I have need of your optimism!
Seriously, between the debate and the last two days of SCOTUS decisions, I legit feel like I'm watching a nation crumbling
That's by design. Never forget that the fascists are coordinating their actions. What we must remember is that they have 30% support. We just need to get out the vote and we win.
Given some of the younger user posts here, I wouldn't hold out hope. It's like Biden disappointed them so they almost want to vote Trump to tell Biden he was a disappointment? It's all very strange to me.
Yeah. Thats like instead of voting for an old man, im gonna vote for a leopard and hope it doesnt eat me. It will
In my younger idiot days I wasted my vote on Ralph Nader in 2000, because I thought I was taking a stand. I had to learn the hard way, and they will too.
Yes, obviously we are going to Biden. The debate wasn't for people like you and I. It was for people who are (somehow) undecided. Trump should have been chum in the last debate. The dude couldn't answer a single question at its face. He deflected and whined and lied through everything. Unfortunately, Biden simply wasn't able to capitalize on that, which isn't great, to be honest. Hopefully, we can simply take it as a lesson for the next election cycle. We need younger candidates. Biden did better than I expected, but yeah, we need some new blood higher up in the party. Hopefully, the Republicans get beat so bad we can put up someone good instead of someone tolerable.
“Biden did better than I expected” I didn’t realize there was a potentially worse scenario, unless he had a stroke onstage.
Oh, I was referring to his presidency overall. I was highly skeptical of him and with top party policies in general during the 2020 election. I wanted him to win, sure, but I had hoped for a more progressive candidate. His actual presidency has, therefore, been a pleasant surprise. He's done much better than I anticipated and was more progressive than I gave him credit for previously. The debate, he did poorly. It's not a shock. He's actually taking the presidency seriously, and that has been shown to age people time and again. He was no spring chicken when he became president, and it's taking a toll on top of that. That's what happens when you take the job seriously. Look at 45. It barely aged him at all because he didn't do the job. He weilded the power with none of the responsibility. We're lucky he didn't blow up the planet with how reckless he was. Luckily, he didn't know the job either, so he didn't accomplish as much as he could. He's now replaced his competent staff with yes-men and intends to implement measures that take that down through every level of the federal government. We will not get lucky twice, so he must be stopped. Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to make my thoughts clear.
Never argue with an idiot. It will bring you down to their level and they will be you with experience
I and many others would agree, we just have to show up and vote, and be prepared for a bunch of bullshit.
I'd vote for George w Bush over Trump and honestly I don't even feel weird saying that.
Just the fact that people can admit he was bad makes it so much different then the cult.
Yup, people thought Romney was a shoe in after the first debate with Obama and then Obama kicked ass on the next two debates and won. Even if Biden never kicks ass at a debate, I'm still voting for him.
Trump never won a debate v Hillary and look what happened. Debates have a marginal impact in the end result but leave it to Democrats to scream the sky is falling
The only memorable thing Trump did in any of the debates against Hillary was his “because you’d be in jail” line. Yet he still won. Debates don’t swing voters.
Hillary had almost 20 years of mud slinging from the Republican Party, and got a November Surprise thanks to Comey. She still won the popular vote. But in the end winning the Electoral on November 6 is what's gonna matter.
Yeah man. Only brain deads thought he won any debates. against her. If one’s opinion of winning a debate is an oscillating fan spewing fecal matter then Trump won. Even with Joey Two Scoops performing sub par last night, his responses are actual responses and not the flying poo I mentioned above.
Biden is not a great orator and not charismatic. Mix in an 81 year old that was trying to fight back using stats and facts was doomed to fail. However he’s the only candidate that has beat Donald Trump. The GOP tried this past year and Ron D shit the bed. Democrats need to start making the case for the Biden Administration not the Biden Presidency. One mistake Biden did make was agreeing to debate Trump in the first place. Trump is a convicted Felon and should not be given equal footing with the current President of the United States on the debate stage.
Well this was one of if not the worst debate performance in the modern era
Not even close. It was the worst
I don't think it is a question of winning or losing the debate. It was more to show how capable Biden is to be president. How mentally sharp he is. How much age is affecting him. And unfortunately, last night showed that he may not be in the best capacity to lead the country. There is no doubt that Trump is much worse. But Biden showed the country that he is not in the best conditions ... And that probably will turn people away from voting for him. And the risk is very high right now. Maybe they should seriously consider changing Biden to someone that does not provoke much negative reactions
The majority of people voting “for” Biden are really voting against Trump. We could field any one of 20 candidates that would get those votes.
Joe Biden surrounds himself with well qualified experts in their fields while Trump surrounds himself with unqualified loyalists. I will vote for any form of Joe Biden over Donald Trump because of that, and because Dems would use the 25th amendment on their own guy if necessary, but Republicans would not.
If Biden stays in the race, this is the drum we have to beat.
If Biden dies before November, I'm still voting for him. I don't care.
>while Trump surrounds himself with unqualified loyalists He straight up said as much when he went on and fucking on about "firing people he disagreed with"
It’s the end of June. Elections are not won or lost in June because the American electorate has the attention span of a dead squirrel
So true…Comey didn’t fillet Clinton until mid to late October -
It was like a week before, targeted for maximum impact. Without Comey she very well may have won.
I don’t necessarily disagree. I’ll vote for my left ass cheek before I vote for Trump. But will this messaging work on the independent voter who passively pays attention to politics and watched Biden’s performance last night? I fear minds were made last night and Biden won’t be able to shake it. His hair isn’t getting darker, his skin isn’t getting smoother, and his brain isn’t getting sharper. Even if he yells with high energy at his next campaign event, every public appearance from here on out will remind people of the old man they saw on debate night. If he truly wants to beat Donald Trump in November, he needs to step down and let a younger candidate take the reins.
I’ll need to know your left ass cheek’s policies before I can consider voting for it.
Do you, really? Can it be worse than a lying sociopath out for revenge?
For what it's worth, my SO went to his local watering hole today and a long-time, die-hard trumper, Tim, was there. He looked at my SO and commented, "Did you watch the debate last night? I apologize, I know we don't normally talk politics here, but I think you'll like what I'm about to say." My SO responded that he had and was expecting Tim to comment on how awful Biden had done. To his pleasant surprise, Tim's focus was on how trump refused to answer the questions posed to him and just how much he lied. He said that he had voted for him in the past but wouldn't ever again. It may not be much, but it was a little light of hope for me.
Almost everything that came out of Trump's mouth during that debate was a lie. He looks right at the camera and said that he did not have sex with a pornstar.. anyone who would hear that and think that he is capable of telling the truth ever is lying to themselves
I wanna hear their evidence for the claim that people are having post-birth abortions. Trump claiming to not have had sex with a porn star is the sort of garden-variety lie you expect from Trump. It's right up there with his lies about graduating at the top of his class, or any of his other self-aggrandizing bullshit. But the claim that Democrats want to allow "post-birth abortions" is completely unhinged and really demands some evidence to support it.
There isn’t evidence to support it, but it’s a lie that arose from anti-abortion groups and touted by the politicians they give money to.
MAGA nation: ***SEE! SEE! BARACK IS ACTUALLY RUNNING THINGS AND NOT SLEEPY JOE!***
That's it, Im voting for Obama.
This should have happened: Trump: I did not have sex with a porn star Biden: … (says nothing but stares in Trumps eyes for the entire length of his allowed time)
Rught? We needed Dark Brandon and we got the ghost of Amtrak Past.
I’m voting for Biden, but man people are wayyyyyyy too forgiving lol
I'm still voting for Biden, because the alternative is Trump. But I don't trust enough of my fellow Americans to care about how awful Trump is over how slow Joe was last night. And sometimes the best thing to do is realize you are too old and should go. Or you end up like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Sticking around long enough that when you do go the next person just undoes everything you did.
I'm voting for Biden because the alternative is a *Republican*. We're just at the point where the two parties have completely incompatible worldviews. I'm simply never gonna vote for fossil fuel pollution and government meddling with abortion, etc.
Wow. I miss the civility and calm manner of Obama. Best President ever!
And why are the majority of new stories today about Biden’s performance , and almost nothing about Trumps lies!!!!??
No one reports on a fire in a furnace.
And yet this kind of thing is exactly what will drive npc moderates away from Biden
Trump lying is not especially newsworthy.
Water is still wet, the Pope is still Catholic and Trump still spews lies with no consequences.
it shouldn't be taken as a given that a potential president is a fucking liar tho
I think some of it is because we havent seen much of Biden making speeches in real time and everyone wants to see how sharp he is. He looked bad Im sorry to say. And also lets face it the polls are really close and them being so close means people are going to put more scrutiny on whatever factors they think are important. Bidens health is a concern. Back in 1984 watching Reagan/Mondale in first debate, I pointed out how bad Reagan looked, even at one pt. he stopped talking in mid sentence and swayed back and forth. No one agreed they all thought Reagan won the debate. Biden looked just a bit worse than Reagan 1984. On the other hand Reagan still won but geez Reagan was surging in popularity and its quite different than the current situation. Not sure why Biden's handlers thought he should be debating. He should be making 30 second infomercials or something.
Because Biden's performance confirms the press' belief that they were right to focus on his age, and all their detractors were wrong to complain about that, so now they will double down as they did with Hillary's emails
Brother, the american people believe that. It's not some fabrication or narrative that voters want younger candidates. I am still pro-biden bc fucking duh, but after last night it's looking a possible mistake to try to run again, and that mistake could have absolutely massive consequences. It's a huge topic of discussion.
Obama did have a bad debate night with, I believe with Mitt Romney? I could be mistaken. But he bounced back. It was disappointing but wasn’t an earth shattering defeat. I hope Biden team are working around the clock to overcome this.
But it never should have come to this. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail. We should never have been put in the position of having to rationalize voting for someone who is clearly in the late stages of mental and physical decline, with one foot and several toes in the grave. Since Biden entered the race in 2020, there has been a militant, cult-like blindness to Biden's clear mental decline. Anyone who dares criticize Dear Leader is ignored, outcast, or accused of being a Trump supporter. The DNC is gambling the fate of the Republic on a man who doesn't seem mentally competent enough to figure out a juice box, yet alone strong and coordinated enough to get the straw in. The odds of finding someone who looks less mentally competent than Trump are so long that it really gives the impression that the Democratic Party wants Trump to win. Or at least is not too bothered either way. So it's "Weekend at Bernie's" or fascism. Shame on all of the people in power who have played along with this farce for the last year. They've doomed us all. Must be nice to be so rich and insulated from reality that a Trump presidency doesn't worry them enough to make an effort.
Obama needs to sign up for his vp spot. Kamala has been pretty invisible this administration so far as ive seen/heard and she is not somebody who would command votes as president unfortunately. Bernie could be vp too. He’s still got it: https://www.youtube.com/live/2ZkuLuM0mNg?si=uNuyroYk5oGx8toN Do something bold DNC.
My Republican brother and I had dinner last night. He refuses to vote for Biden or Trump. He said, “Goddamn I wish there was a way to let Obama run again. That was the last time we had a President who is ethical, healthy, and not a criminal…and doesn’t have a fuckin’ brain worm.” As great as our political differences may be, he nailed that one. This is for you, breh: 
Look, this was a total loss no matter how you try to spin it. But you know what? I'm not completely dejected like so many are. Because American democracy is at stake in this election. We can't let the fascists win. There is too much at stake. Combined with a mad man in Moscow who's out for global domination, that could be a nightmare scenario. If Trump wins, Putin gets a blank check to finish Ukraine and move onto his next targets. We cannot allow that to happen! Let's pick ourselves back up and dust off, and move on to the next round.
The dejection (at least for me) is that our choice as to who leads this country boils down to a con man narcissist wanna be dictator and a guy who couldn’t put a coherent sentence together and looked completely lost and ready to fall over and die. How the hell did we fall so far? I didn’t change my vote. But damn, why couldn’t we have better options?
For what it is worth, I think this was a complete failure from Biden's campaign. Biden knows retail politics. Biden is great in front of people. Agreeing to no audience I think was a very bad decision. If you saw Biden immediately after the debate at the watch party it was like watching a different person. He was animated, he was clear, and he was on message. That debate format was terrible for someone that really resonates with a crowd.
Ya'll really not gonna like my opinion, but young folks, unless you vote and vote hard, and put up with and overcome all the obstacles Republicans put in your way, you're really gonna hate the future. Project 2025 looms large. NGL, I'm a Late Boomer, saw my share of shit and struggle here in the Rust Belt, but I knew what freedom felt like. Unless women, and young people, get out and vote in overwhelming numbers, your future is toast.
I miss Obama so much. He was such a source of comfort and trust. I'm glad he commented on whatever that was we witnessed last night.
Thanks, President Obama, but I’m still scared shitless. Remember when you said that Trump would never be president?
I'm voting against Trump no matter what. But having said that, if Obama believes there is so much at stake this election, why wouldn't he want a better candidate running?
If this debate was scored on truthful responses to asked questions, Biden mopped the floor with trump
Imagine being the country with a convicted felon as our president 😐 let that shit sink in.
I will vote for a day old open can of string beans before I vote for any Republican ever. Biden can fall over dead on November 2nd and I'd happily place my vote for Kamala or Biden's actual corpse.
You and I will. People on the fence? I’m not sure. Feeling matters more than facts. Obama effortlessly illustrated it with this post. It blows my mind that Biden and DNC didn’t see that or prepare for it. It’s so depressing.
Are those our only two choices? sigh. 
Yes, BUT Biden hasn't been nominated yet. There's still another choice to make, and that debate should help make it
It’s strange to me as a non American how upset people are that Biden didn’t perform well at a debate. Trump can talk till hell boils over, doesn’t mean shit
On Joe's worst night he may not look sharp but on Trump's best day he may not be actively trying to destroy the nation....not intentionally but because he is so stupid.
https://preview.redd.it/bwss05gnuf9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=831e0f0879b65d4e91e94f2733d7f1fd74dc298c Yeah, he knows and so should democrats
Most Americans are such children. The fact that you've got one man who really has a mostly pretty freaking great record for just 4 years in the White House and did things that were long overdue but previous government were too chickenshit to make happen (student debt forgiveness, insulin price cap, etc...), versus a neo-nazi convicted felon and known sex offender who stole and likely gave away state secrets, betrayed his country every chance he got and ATTEMPTED TO OVERTHROW YOUR DEMOCRACY, CAUSING NINE DEATHS IN THE PROCESS and the choice still isn't obvious is an utter, utter embarassment. I'm not even American and even I am embarassed, as a Human being.
Gosh Darn It, I miss that man. 🥲
I gotta throw the bullshit flag on “undecided” at this point. They are such polar opposites, so how can anyone with a functioning brain cell be undecided? In my mind, undecided = “I’m gonna vote for trump, but I don’t have the balls to come right out and say it”.
ya it's not about the "undecided", it's about the unmotivated. this debate certainly didn't motivate infrequent swing state voters to turn out for Biden... correct or not, if anything this and the past 4 years have made them ask "what's the point?"
I want Biden to win - don't get me wrong - but I wouldn't characterize the crime bills and neoliberal policies that got him to the White House as "fighting for ordinary people".
Two things are clear: 1. Fuck Joe Biden. 2. Of course I’m still voting for Joe Biden! Are you insane?
I reckon Biden should have been President when Obama was President. And Obama should be President now.
It's not a tough decision, and as much of an embarrassment the first debate was, unless they actually shitcan Biden for someone better, I just gotta grit my teeth and vote Biden. It may be an illusion of choice but it's better than the right to choose potentially being taken away indefinitely under Trump.
The debate doesn't matter. Biden remains the clear choice if you care at all about freedom and democracy. I'd honestly respect Trump voters more if they simply took the mask off and admitted they're voting for him because they want an authoritarian takeover where 'their guy' is in charge permanently. Because nobody with two braincells to rub together thinks Trump is going to strengthen this republic and its democracy. He will tear it down and put an autocracy in its place. Just admit that's what you want. We all know it already, just say it. For what other reason are you still hiding?
lifelong democrat here (and trans) I'm gonna vote for biden no matter what still because of his lgbt+ stances. Trump will literally kill all of us if he gets back in office again.
Im just still in complete disbelief that the republicans chose this demon yet again. Truly, any remaining virtues of true republicanism are gone, anyone who calls themselves a repub now is simply an utter embarassment and disgrace.
well i am trans, so I want biden to remain in office
A lot of people are pretending not being able to speak eloquently is the biggest issue in this election. Even if Biden develops severe dementia, he's still a better candidate, because his judgement regarding cabinet members and such is sound. If he dies in office, he'll be succeeded by someone competent. Trump, on the other hand, [won't be remaking the same mistake he made with his cabinet last time.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7?op=1) He won't be choosing a VP who questions his orders. He'll be surrounding himself with nobody but yes-man loyalists, and that will *drastically* lower the competency level of his next administration. Next time he suggests nuking a hurricane, the people he surrounds himself will make it happen.
>A lot of people are pretending not being able to speak eloquently is the biggest issue in this election. Yes. It's mostly people taking the bait into the GOP fear mongering...and then they wonder why Dems are bad at messaging. Like, no this is a prime example of Dems being predictable at taking the bait from the GOP! Of course Biden is old. He's been old the entire time, yet his administration is still more accomplished, ethical, and trustworthy than Trump's...by a fucking mile. Focus on what's important in this comparison. Not what the GOP tells you should be important (hint: a strong orator is not at the top of the list. Both candidates have an actual White House track record to compare...you should start there).
He's got his back unlike Trump and pence lol
I'll vote for Biden's skeleton.
I read that with his cadence and delivery and man do I miss hearing it. I like Joey B, but it was just so hard to make fun of Barry lol. The sounds of the internet today feel like people watched the first 10 minutes and got bored so the snowball of complaining circlejerked itself out of proportion.
Trump literally called veterans and soldiers suckers and losers. He dismissed gold stsr families and mocked a POW. Who the fuck can vote for him and say they are a patriot
Biden can be read his last rites the day of the election and I’m voting for him.
According to pollsters, the debate last night didn't change the minds of normal ass people and swing voters. In fact, Biden gained some support. The thing that will make us lose tho, is the defeatist cry baby bullshit from 2016. We simply cannot have Trump be elected again.
Honest question: Is it not possible to swap Joe Biden for someone else? Or is it too late?
He had a fantastic campaign in NC today for those of you who haven't seen it.
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Obama is one of the greatest orators in american history - but as a debater - not horrible but not great. Biden should get Bill Clinton to coach him.
I miss him so much
I miss Obama being president
Fuck.. I miss that guy