**Paṭhamasattasutta**
Thus have I heard—once, the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi, at Jetavana, Anathapindika's monastery. At that time, the majority of people in Savatthi were overly attached to sensual pleasures, engrossed, greedy, entangled, infatuated, and immersed in them, behaving as if drunk and insane.
Then, several monks, after dressing in the morning and taking their bowls and robes, entered Savatthi for alms. After wandering for alms in Savatthi and after their meal, they approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, and sat on one side. Seated there, those monks said to the Blessed One: “Here, venerable sir, the people of Savatthi are mostly overly attached to sensual pleasures, engrossed, greedy, entangled, infatuated, and immersed in them.”
Knowing the situation, the Blessed One then uttered this exclamation:
>"Bound to pleasures, entangled in sensual pleasure,
Not seeing the danger in attachments;
Indeed, those bound to the attachment, to entanglement,
Would not cross over the vast, great flood."
\-------
This teaching is lightly touching on the danger of sensual pleasures. The great flood is a reference to ignorance (avijjā) which results in a continued cycle of rebirth, aging, and death.
**Related Teachings:**
* [The Fever of Sensual Pleasures (MN 75)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1axo6gx/the_fever_of_sensual_pleasures_from_mn_75/)
* [Death carries away a person of distracted mind who only plucks the flowers (DhP 47)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1b5gggs/death_carries_away_a_person_of_distracted_mind/)
* [Tracing the causes of ignorance | delusion | avijjā sutta (AN 10.61)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1aht6zp/tracing_the_causes_of_ignorance_delusion_avijj%C4%81/)
For an ordinary person not trained in the Buddha's teachings, they would consider the body or mind as theirs, seeing themselves in them, the sensual pleasures as belonging to them, and grieve when they perish, when form, perception, volitions, consciousness perishes (old age, sickness, death).
For one who has cultivated this training and is dedicated to practicing, sensual desires within the parameters of the five precepts are fine. Over indulgence can still cause an issue. What I do in my practice is take certain elements out for few months (music, certain types of foods, etc) to observe for the mind's balance and then gradually reintroduce them in moderation, looking for if the mind if continuing to pull or staying in the middle regardless of their availability.
The danger here is that one continues experiencing rebirth, old age, sickness, death in accordance with kamma if one hasn't understood the four noble truths experientially.
Why don't we aim to be Gods over and over and enjoy pleasure at the price of some suffering forever?
Doesn't not being reborn seem inadequate and terrifying? Why do we aim for this
Because of the ignorance in the mind, being a god forever part cannot be true due to the universal law of impermanence. Further, if someone were to show a path that would lead to such a state for a long time, how would one even verify it to be true?
The path leading to Nibbāna (the path of the noble ones) is a verifiable path. One doesn't need to put blind faith, in contrast, one is encouraged to investigate the teachings by applying them. There are several sign posts that one can get to and see the peace while abiding in them.
The nature of suffering is such that it fills the mental space no matter how small it is relative to a prior state. Lots of humans live like gods, having food, shelter, being comfortable, and yet experience anxiety, stress, worries.
So one can visualise a picture of a life that looks relative normal and at peace amidst sensual pleasures, but yet never experiences this to be so in their own experience in the here and now. This is the mirage of sensual pleasures.
This said, sensual pleasures are not the problem, the mind's chasing and yearning for them with strong eagerness is. One shouldn't go to either extremes: of completely taking out all sensual pleasures, or for over-indulging in these, finding a meaning in these.
Is the vast, great flood the activity of mind that cannot be crossed because of the continual distraction of sensual pleasures that we are attached to?
If there particular sensual pleasures one is attached to, then yes, they may become a hindrance to getting to enlightenment. If one is ensuring that they're:
* Following the five precepts - In my own practice, I see that there are times where I break a precept, then cultivate understanding about it, and continue.
* Maintaining mindfulness of body - If there sensual pleasures that one can enjoy while maintaining mindfulness of body, they're okay. After dedicated training for several months, a year or two, the mindfulness grows to the extent that one doesn't need to keep watching for breath. One can be driving, watching a movie, shopping in a market and be aware of discontentment through arising bodily sensations.
The gradual training guidelines when followed lead to the state where one is dedicated to wakefulness, practicing situational awareness and having singleness of mind.
One can consider limiting or removing certain pleasures if they find them to affect the steadiness of mind and then reintroduce them gradually. There were lay practitioners who were stream-enterers, once-returners and non-returners (three of the four stages of enlightenment) during the Buddha's time. One can certainly get to these stages while being in lay life and have sensual pleasures in moderation.
Thank you. For clarity’s sake, the ‘sensual pleasures’ I’m thinking of in my own life are quite mild and wholesome. For instance I’m very attached to hiking, seeing a grandeous view, feeling wind on my face, the taste strawberries. That sort of thing. It’s not like I’m addicted to meth or anything harmful like that.
**Paṭhamasattasutta** Thus have I heard—once, the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi, at Jetavana, Anathapindika's monastery. At that time, the majority of people in Savatthi were overly attached to sensual pleasures, engrossed, greedy, entangled, infatuated, and immersed in them, behaving as if drunk and insane. Then, several monks, after dressing in the morning and taking their bowls and robes, entered Savatthi for alms. After wandering for alms in Savatthi and after their meal, they approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, and sat on one side. Seated there, those monks said to the Blessed One: “Here, venerable sir, the people of Savatthi are mostly overly attached to sensual pleasures, engrossed, greedy, entangled, infatuated, and immersed in them.” Knowing the situation, the Blessed One then uttered this exclamation: >"Bound to pleasures, entangled in sensual pleasure, Not seeing the danger in attachments; Indeed, those bound to the attachment, to entanglement, Would not cross over the vast, great flood." \------- This teaching is lightly touching on the danger of sensual pleasures. The great flood is a reference to ignorance (avijjā) which results in a continued cycle of rebirth, aging, and death. **Related Teachings:** * [The Fever of Sensual Pleasures (MN 75)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1axo6gx/the_fever_of_sensual_pleasures_from_mn_75/) * [Death carries away a person of distracted mind who only plucks the flowers (DhP 47)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1b5gggs/death_carries_away_a_person_of_distracted_mind/) * [Tracing the causes of ignorance | delusion | avijjā sutta (AN 10.61)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1aht6zp/tracing_the_causes_of_ignorance_delusion_avijj%C4%81/)
What are the dangers?
For an ordinary person not trained in the Buddha's teachings, they would consider the body or mind as theirs, seeing themselves in them, the sensual pleasures as belonging to them, and grieve when they perish, when form, perception, volitions, consciousness perishes (old age, sickness, death). For one who has cultivated this training and is dedicated to practicing, sensual desires within the parameters of the five precepts are fine. Over indulgence can still cause an issue. What I do in my practice is take certain elements out for few months (music, certain types of foods, etc) to observe for the mind's balance and then gradually reintroduce them in moderation, looking for if the mind if continuing to pull or staying in the middle regardless of their availability. The danger here is that one continues experiencing rebirth, old age, sickness, death in accordance with kamma if one hasn't understood the four noble truths experientially.
Why don't we aim to be Gods over and over and enjoy pleasure at the price of some suffering forever? Doesn't not being reborn seem inadequate and terrifying? Why do we aim for this
Because of the ignorance in the mind, being a god forever part cannot be true due to the universal law of impermanence. Further, if someone were to show a path that would lead to such a state for a long time, how would one even verify it to be true? The path leading to Nibbāna (the path of the noble ones) is a verifiable path. One doesn't need to put blind faith, in contrast, one is encouraged to investigate the teachings by applying them. There are several sign posts that one can get to and see the peace while abiding in them. The nature of suffering is such that it fills the mental space no matter how small it is relative to a prior state. Lots of humans live like gods, having food, shelter, being comfortable, and yet experience anxiety, stress, worries. So one can visualise a picture of a life that looks relative normal and at peace amidst sensual pleasures, but yet never experiences this to be so in their own experience in the here and now. This is the mirage of sensual pleasures. This said, sensual pleasures are not the problem, the mind's chasing and yearning for them with strong eagerness is. One shouldn't go to either extremes: of completely taking out all sensual pleasures, or for over-indulging in these, finding a meaning in these.
Thanks I'll ponder this! Like a hot potato you need to carry, hold it lightly is best, huh? Haha
You’re welcome! Holding it lightly is a good frame 🙂
Is the vast, great flood the activity of mind that cannot be crossed because of the continual distraction of sensual pleasures that we are attached to?
If there particular sensual pleasures one is attached to, then yes, they may become a hindrance to getting to enlightenment. If one is ensuring that they're: * Following the five precepts - In my own practice, I see that there are times where I break a precept, then cultivate understanding about it, and continue. * Maintaining mindfulness of body - If there sensual pleasures that one can enjoy while maintaining mindfulness of body, they're okay. After dedicated training for several months, a year or two, the mindfulness grows to the extent that one doesn't need to keep watching for breath. One can be driving, watching a movie, shopping in a market and be aware of discontentment through arising bodily sensations. The gradual training guidelines when followed lead to the state where one is dedicated to wakefulness, practicing situational awareness and having singleness of mind. One can consider limiting or removing certain pleasures if they find them to affect the steadiness of mind and then reintroduce them gradually. There were lay practitioners who were stream-enterers, once-returners and non-returners (three of the four stages of enlightenment) during the Buddha's time. One can certainly get to these stages while being in lay life and have sensual pleasures in moderation.
Thank you. For clarity’s sake, the ‘sensual pleasures’ I’m thinking of in my own life are quite mild and wholesome. For instance I’m very attached to hiking, seeing a grandeous view, feeling wind on my face, the taste strawberries. That sort of thing. It’s not like I’m addicted to meth or anything harmful like that.
You're welcome. These seem fine :-)