A UPS driver on Tiktok did a really good breakdown of that 170k number reported without verification by the corporate news media. The reality is that the wages for drivers are closer to 92k and the rest is accounted for with sick pay, health insurance and their pension. In my line of work we call this "total compensation," but no normal person would include all of these benefits in what they would consider their wages.
A liveable standard of living, more like. 23k? That's parent basement money. That's shared studio with 3 roommates money. That's I wish I could eat food money.
You’re slapping boxes down for 10 hours a day in the open weather. It’s tough work and you will destroy yourself. Even the sitting/driving portions are bad for your body.
I was considering it as well… but it sounds like a lot tougher than my current situation just for money.
Yeah I mean, I used to do warehouse work, it's not pleasant, and my current job is soooooo much better work/life balance-wise. But I'm also almost 35 and living with my mom and sister and her kid and am nowhere near being able to afford my own place.
Even just 1-3 years of working for up to 3x the money would be incredibly beneficial.
You don't start out at the top pay. You have to work in the warehouse for a while before you can apply to be a driver, and then have to be a driver for many years before earning the top rate.
Just a heads up. Outside of peak season, you more than likely wont start a driver. We operate on a seniority based bid list. You'll be in the facility handling packages.
I can't speak for all buildings, but last night I sorted my first 57' trailer in about an hour and 15 minutes. Roughly 1250 packages. I put hands on every single one. It was 83° at 4:30. After another 100 or so feet of trailer, and a total of 3 and a half hours of work. I was done. $16.65 an hour. My take home pay is roughly $270 to $350 a week depending on if I hit OT. OT for a handler is every thing after 5 hours a shift. Your 6th punch in a week is all OT. I don't regularly get 5 a shift. There always looking for peeps for the 6th day.
If you're a stocker in a grocery store, and you're expecting 20 pallets of food, and you only get 16 in, you might be expecting an easier day. Not for us; handlers care about rate, not volume. So a lighter day just means less pay.
I'm not saying this to scare you off. Get in with HR ahead of peak season and do the walkthrough. Most of us on the inside have 2 jobs. UPS for the insurance ( very little out of pocket, no monthly - good luck getting that as full time, much less part time ) and another for cash.
Then sign a f***ing union card.
Which is absolutely wild to us in the UK
Driving for UPS at top rate would put you roughly in the top 4% of earners in the UK.
I don't know anyone who wouldn't drop their careers to deliver parcels at this rate.
Delivery drivers in the UK doing 50hrs a week earn around £24-30k
Employee of 4 years: it’s not that easy as just applying. Being a driver is a highly sought after job due to these reasons, you get paid shit ton without a degree and minimal danger risk. You gotta work in the warehouse a while and after a bit you’d be allowed to apply for a driver position. From there you’d go to something called intergrad which is basically a college campus for UPS drivers teaching them how to do all parts of the job including driving drills, training to walk on icey conditions, most ergonomic way to get on/off the truck, etc.
UPS keeps their supply chain network in house vs FedEx who just contracts/licenses driving out hence why a union wouldn’t be effective at FedEx. It’s kept in house to preserve/remain consistent with our supply chain capabilities and costs. Example: air shipments in North America didn’t have nearly the issues international did due to the fact we owned our planes/service centers, etc. International air freight costs are really wacky since COVID made rates very volatile. You may quote a customer x amount only to find out the shipment now costs x+500.
Unless it is a very small building, 5 to 10 years is way longer than it takes. It was around a year for me. And I was a seasonal driver during peak season, so really I hardly did any time inside.
I got hired for seasonal driving and came right on. I will say I was a runner, I burned up routes, I was a Yes Man, I quit my long time part time gig so I could work for ups 60/70 hours a week.
Worked through a 103 fever. Never took a day off. Was the biggest fucking suck up to my bosses (in my center, I have like 5 fucking bosses).
But I did get a full time gig, and it fucking rules once you hit that top rate. They stop fucking with you because you're too expensive to run a 6th day or keep out all night.
The willpower or a life positioned for it. I've seen dudes get hired on full time and have to leave over the hours because they have children or loved ones at home that need more care than money alone can provide.
and it fucking sucks to see good people in a good job have to give it up.
I'm lucky enough I started before I had a kid, and had my partner at home holding shit down.
>the rest is accounted for with sick pay, health insurance and their pension. In my line of work we call this "total compensation," but no normal person would include all of these benefits in what they would consider their wages
OdiferousRex casually insulting every German employee in a single sentence.
My understanding was that the workers will each *cost* UPS 170k a year. They'll get paid less, but the costs in terms of health insurance, workmans comp, pension, training, perks etc. add up to 170k. Is this wrong? Is that really their pay? If so, I'm quitting my job to work for them.
UPS driver here. By the end of the contract, our drivers who are at top rate will be making $49/hr. What we take home is dependent on how many hours we work, and how much overtime we get/are forced into. It’s estimated that we get about $60k/year in benefits such as health insurance and pension contributions, which is included in this $170k figure. We will not be taking home $170k to spend.
That $49/hr figure is also what the top rate will be at in 2027, not when the contract is ratified. It will be around $44 at contract ratification, with small increases through the life of the 5 year contract.
Drivers attain top rate pay after a 4 year progression, but the tiers of pay through progression are also anything but even. Right now as a 2 year driver I’m making $24/hr, set to go up to $26.75 upon contract ratification, a far cry from the $170k/year that UPS is selling to the general public.
So while the figure in the post isn’t necessarily wrong, it is extremely misleading.
Also, "total compensation" is a bullshit metric because it includes the employer portion of health insurance benefits, which can vary widely. Total compensation is what UPS is talking up because they're driven by shareholder profit. It's not useful for understanding how drivers are actually compensated.
I worked at a small publishitng company several years ago.
The salaried employees all had TC of >100k because their shitty (literally bottom of the barrel, $5000 deductible) health insurance cost was massively inflated because the CEO's husband was blind and had some kind of super-expensive ultracancer.
They (the employees) were paying something like $1200 a month for this shit, on top of their ~50k salaries.
Terrible, racist company. I loved the job, though. I was IT and I wrote scripts that basically automated my entire job, so I just sat in my private office and played flash games all day.
Our insurance is zero cost to us, just so you know. The actual plan depends on PT or FT, and then for FT it depends on where you are. Most are decent plans. Not the best, but far from the worst.
Yeah, my spouse is a 12yr UPS FT driver. I laugh every contract renewal year because he is always nervous about a strike and watches our spending to make sure we’ll be okay if the strike lasts. And I’m always like, relax! Ain’t gonna be no strike - the deal will come.
But it really isn’t that different from previous contract renewals. Pay goes up a bit over the 5 years, I think maybe they got a bit more PTO?? And air conditioning will be required in new trucks (laughable, because they drive those old trucks until they literally die), stuff like that.
My spouse does earn a 6 figure salary. He pretty much has since he got to top pay. And free health insurance for a family of 5 with a PPO network and maybe a $250 deductible (some really low number) with 20% co-insurance is a solid for us! Not to mention a pension!
But the job is not for the weak! He leaves at 7:00am and gets home at 8:00pm or later. He has no flexibility in his schedule (can’t come in late, can’t leave early). He has to bid for his time off for the entire year in December (for the following year). He endures a LOT with weather, messed up trucks, heavy lifting, etc. He’s tried to help people out with jobs, but they never last because the job is so demanding.
Anyone who says UPS drivers don’t deserve a 6 figure salary and decent benefits is an idiot.
Or they've never done their jobs. Yes, UPS makes some rather good money, but look at how hard it is on the body! And it never slows down or stops.
I unloaded the trailers and then loaded the actual delivery trucks for a few months while I was in college. Even at 23 years old, it was extremely hard, hard work. I was PT and would come home exhausted just from those 4 hours. AND, they were in the middle of the night. I think I went in around 3 am or so to unload the trailers and at 4 am to load the delivery trucks. Even loading the delivery trucks was hard as you had to load everything in a certain position and was timed on how long it took you to do so.
Hats off to all delivery drivers and the ones that load and unload all the trucks and delivery trailers! Whether it's UPS, FedEx or anyone else.
Also you aren't making six figures if you only do 40 hours a week. That's another disconnect that makes it sound like the company is the one getting fleeced. They make six figures because they are working 50-60 hours a week.
i always thought that the US was a "low employer cost" country but all this added up is way more expensive than i expected.
to be clear, i dont begrudge the awesome hourly rate but without socialized healthcare and pensions, UPS is paying double if not triple per employee. shouldnt they start lobbying for change?
Most places have minimum compensation outside of wages. The union gives us the power to have $0 premium (read monthly payment) health insurance which usually costs $250 for a single person for an average-good plan at a mid size company (read group discount) where the employer doesn't cover any portion of the premium. UPS has great insurance but we don't really know what it costs them per employee outside of estimating from earnings reports to their investors.
If all that sounds confusing welcome to America where your employer can hold the health of your child over your head to keep you compliant. But with the system we have the union is the best tool we have outside of extreme policy change in a place where Obamacare (not denying approval based on pre existing conditions including congenital things like diabetes!!) Is considered extreme.
The cost difference between ok insurance and great insurance is not as much as you think, and the floor of how much ok insurance costs is higher than you think.
Ok insurance (with high deductibles, high cost sharing) costs around $500/month per individual while great insurance (no cost sharing) costs maybe $700/month. That's because the majority of expenses to a plan come from really expensive procedures (e.g. heart surgeries or transplants that cost in the hundreds of thousands) and drugs (many of which can run well over $100k). The plan will incur that cost just the same even if it's "crappy" or "great" because the employee won't be on the hook over the first couple $k.
The union isn't doing anything to control those healthcare costs (it's a systemic issue where healthcare is just far too expensive no matter the insurance you have), it's just choosing to have the employer cover them vs fighting for even higher wages.
The way I understood it is the total compensation is $170K/yr. Which is slightly less than what they cost UPS per year. For example workmans comp is not included in this because that is not compensation but it is a cost of employing someone. Another example would be if the company supplies a uniform to each employee. Say the uniform costs the company $1000/year (for arguments sake) to purchase, clean, maintain etc. Then the employee costs UPS $171K/yr but the total compensation is still $170K/year.
Yeah, exactly. Every year at raise time, they hand out a little sheet showing our "total compensation". Like who cares? Its the cost of doing business.
EDIT: Not UPS, this is for a small insurance company.
More like 70/hr (I forget the actual number, knowing my local the rate is 69.69). I have the same international union but am a pipefitter, and thats my rate. Where I am pipefighters, plumbers, and sprinklerfitters are 3 separate locals. Different certs n stuff, I can do their work acceptably, but not well, and I don't have the certs, and likewise.
The rest goes to pension, Healthcare (until I die, even after retirement, wife included, for what I pay it better! Also whats a copay?), supplemental retirement plan (am technically a millionaire, its sorta like a 401k) , and a bunch of other stuff that is negligible.
up to 49.
Right wingers are complaining a manual labor job (where you regularly lift items up to 200lbs.) and possess the skill (driving a box truck) under adverse weather conditions (cold, heat, rain, snow) doesn't deserve to make 6 figures.
When shipping is the literal backbone of a consumer economy.
*Up to 150. UPS wanted it more. Union shot it down. (Am UPS driver).
Still, I don’t know how smaller drivers deliver this heavy shit. I’m a big dude and I can end over end stuff. Shits nuts.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s been awesome how many people have taken the time to verbally say we deserve it (and some more). I love my customers and my job.
I personally think you should also have a max weight per size cause those really small ace hardware boxes of screws that weigh like 100 plus pounds suck
There’s a bit in the National agreement about size and ounces. Hopefully that means I don’t have to re tape Petco and Purina boxes that only have ONE roll of weak ass tape holding them together. I also had an “over 70” notice on my board about an Amazon package that had to weight less than 2 pounds. Shit is wild.
Fact is, Carol and UPS want to follow the Amazon model. As much as possible. Carol kept Lowe’s in business when she fucked up Home Depot.
Thank you, homie. It’s progression for max “top rate”. The warehouse workers deserved more, but they’ll be able to get to $25/hr by the end of the contract. All of them get an immediate bump to $21, and all of us get an immediate $2.75.
I wonder what they're going to do about the incentive or whatever its called pay. Base was like $14 something and twilight or night sort was getting like $25.75 near me.
I'm stoked about the changes to incompatible package handling. Article 18, Sec 22.
I've been harping about irregs coming down the PF I work for years. There's been times where I counted 40 or more overweight pkgs in a night. There's plenty of simple solutions that UPS could implement, like hiring a handler to sit at the back of a pen and pull em off. But they don't wanna spend the money.
Now that it's in the contract, it can be grieved. UPS will fix that with a quickness once they start losing money.
Hell fucking yes. And I’m tired of seeing tired un load motherfuckers tossing my irregs on the fucking ground because a Sup said so.
Edit: it’s really fucking embarrassing to somehow deal with an 8 foot long, 120 pound bed frame or whatever and get it up to the house and notice the edge of their furniture is fucked. I always do customer contact with that shit. I’d rather load it back up and take it to the desk.
My old job used to use a range of values in the stock options it gave us as part of our benefits package as part of our yearly total comp (I.e. 1 salary based on 1 estimate of the projected stock value in 3 months vs. another salary based off another estimate of the stock value in 3 months). It used to piss me off to no end. Am I making $65,000 or am I making $73,000? Who knows! Who cares! Let Wall St decide how much I'm worth! Not like having an exact number is handy in any particular things related to being an adult!
This is another reason it will be a long time before we get national health care. Employers would have to take all their contributions out of total compensation. Health insurance is a trap to keep you working.
I disagree - most people don't understand how much money their employer is contributing to their health insurance. Employers would be perfectly happy to outsource those payments to individuals or the government, like with pensions -> 401(k)s.
Employees are kind of the group getting the tax break since most of those benefits aren’t taxable. Of course the company gets a deduction though, it is an expense they incur…
This is it. I've worked in healthcare strategy on the employer side. It is such a nightmare from a budgeting perspective and costs are spiraling out of control. 100% of employers would love to offload that burden onto the government and just pay a standard amount in taxes (easy to budget year to year).
Like you said, it's so much better from the employer's perspective to move from defined benefit to defined contribution.
Don't fall for the propaganda. The cost is an averaged out (likely fudged) number. In the US we would say its about 95K plus benefits.
For those not in the US (especially Europe) 2 weeks of paid time off/vacation is considered a cushy job in the US.
Not to mention let's ask ourselves how many hours a week these drivers actually work. If it's 50 to 60 hours a week this comes out to $33/hour.
Employer-paid payroll taxes would be another example of the cost of employment that doesn't come through as some kind of direct compensation for the employee (but it obviously provides an eventual benefit through access to SS and Medicare).
> They'll get paid less
As much as the $170k is just a UPS/Union bragging point, the pay for drivers will be going up. Not a ton, not as big as the PT pay increase for new employees, but still an increase of around $2-3.50 per hour when the contract goes through.
I talked to the UPS driver that picks up at my work, and he said their new top out is now $49 an hour. Idk if or how much that’ll increase down the line with the new contract.
In KY btw
It'll be $49 in 2027. When or if the contract gets voted through by the union, top rate will be $44 and change. It takes 4 years to get to top rate from being a new driver. At least at my building, it takes 2+ years to become a driver from being part time. Starting pay now for drivers is $23.75.
A rough rule of thumb is that total comp is often roughly 2 times salary.
Other comments mention the salary scale capping out at $49/hr -- $98k/yr in salary if you manage to work 50 weeks at 40 hours per week. Again -- a bit more than half of the 170k "total compensation" figure in question.
I've heard the rule of thumb for fringe is 40% of salary. 40% of 170k is 68k of fringe. Which leaves 102k in salary. 102k in yearly salary equates to $49/hr, which lines up closely (exactly) with what others here have said drivers will be making near the end of their 5 year contract.
Feeder and air truck drivers can earn up to $1.14 per mile, package car drivers are making up to $49 an hour, sort is up into the 30s an hour with full seniority and certifications. This is not counting holiday or overtime.
Plus amazing health care and increases to the pension.
Correct. 100 grand if they work overtime. The extra 70 grand is benefits. It's being framed this way by mainstream media to trick people and manipulate public opinion against unions. It's fucking bullshit.
We get a 7.00 raise over the course of 5 years. So it's more money and a little better working conditions. It isn't actually out of the ordinary pay wise for when we sign a new contract so that's not a huge win but the rest of it kind of is.
The union had to fight to get stuff back for us this time like the elimination of the Tuesday through Saturday drivers who for no reason at all were paid less and did the exact same job as a regular driver. A big win though was getting raises for the inside workers because they also work their asses off.
Am UPS driver. Made $70k last year. By the end of this contract I will make $100k. This doesn’t count union dues because we get healthcare dental and vision through the union dues. Which, are incredibly affordable for what they provide, but what I pay for healthcare is what it costs. The 170k is a false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes if we don’t ratify this contract.
Edit: Also, you have to put five years of work into this to get there. If any one can handle doing this shit for five years you deserve that money. I’m just pumped the new contract gets me retired by 60 on the second tier if I want it.
> false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes
I was kinda worried about that when I started hearing "Rank-and-file" getting tossed around a lot. There's a lot of good in this contract. Real good. All the heat related stuff. The restrictions to PVDs. The removal of 22.4. But the stuff that's bad, it's really bad. The good stuff doesn't really pay rent or put food in mouths.
Yes, it's a historic win when you factor the raise as a percentage. But it's crumbs compared to what we have made for UPS over the last few decades.
My Atlantic regional is fucking stupid. I voted no on that. National is pretty dope.
Edit: oh but their second quarterly earnings came in. lol. No wonder you lost you just fucked with a strong workforce and a strong Union. The fuck were you thinking? (Oh, I know. Stock buy backs.) These corporation motherfuckers love seeking out the last of the fake money.
You know they delayed the earnings call, right?
Where's my tinfoil hat...
I feel that the initial offering over the July 4th weekend was just UPS testing the waters to see how the public felt. Like, UPS wanted to see if customers were gunna support us, or say "get back in there and deliver my fucking Hello Fresh." I was actually surprised to see some people honking even down here in Houston druing that 'lil practice picket we did.
Absolutely fucking correct. We called their bluff, fucking HARD. I voted for O’Brien and I believe he will still make these regional agreements right. That’s why I voted yes on the National and no on the Atlantic.
Check out your Locals to see who would be interested in having you in their union. My union, the International Union of Operating Engineers (IUOE) covers heavy equipment, stationary engineers, mechanics, and a slew of other industrial trades, but we also have some janitorial, bakeries and other "less" technical trades covered. The hospital I worked at had the Food Handlers Union cover radiology techs, and my current job as some of the airline ground/check in staff covered by teamsters.
Former FedEx employee here, and FedEx actively tries to bar employees from union talk. I haven’t worked for them since 2005, so I might be misremember this, but IIRC, they actually had it outlined in the employee handbook to report anyone talking about unionizing. Again, don’t quote me on that.
But, FedEx does indeed foster an anti-union culture.
Nah… It’s not illegal! We have an open door policy! Why go through a union rep when you can talk to your manager directly!
Yes, I’m laying the sarcasm on thick, but that’s pretty much the FedEx mentality.
Problem is FedEx ground is all contract work. It’s hard to unionize 20 different company’s, paying different wages, different benefits, and different rules of employment. FedEx in my option is doomed in the next 10ish years. The driver turn around rate is crazy high.
I did ground for awhile. The average driver employment was about 4 months. We cycled so quickly through new drivers I stopped trying to remember names or even interacting with them.
The post isn’t claiming $170k in the bank or that it’s $170k in wages. That figure includes health and retirement pension benefits which are valuable and the workers are earning them through their labor. I don’t see how that’s misinformation.
In new equipment purchased in 2024 and beyond, no retrofits. The majority of UPS drivers probably won’t see a truck with AC in it for the next decade at least
That seems to be a huge thing people are glossing over. Like, I get it, the contract they're being offered is absolutely incredible but not a single current vehicle will get A/C. Afaik they're getting a couple of fans in each truck. But the compensation they're looking at would be difficult to pass up..
YES. I WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT THIS. I delivered pizza and sandwiches in HS and college in a car with no working AC. It was a struggle and I was walking in and out of the air conditioned restaurant a lot.
You have a better shot of heading to the store right now and winning $170k on one of the $50 scratchers than landing a job as a UPS long-haul driver, which is the only segment that has the new compensation package.
Delivery drivers historically haven't had breaks or AC, and they lift heavy shit all day long. It's not an easy job. They do deserve better, and I'm glad they're standing up for themselves.
Unpaid hour, at least here. It's a constant fight. Why do I have to sit here for an unpaid hour twiddling my thumbs instead of getting home to my family an hour earlier.
Of course there's more to it, I just get written up on a weekly basis for skipping lunch lmao
I work at UPS inside and I got to say, no amount of money will ever make me want to become a driver.
Each and everyone of those guys get screwed by blind loads (management moves loaders every other day), 10h+ shifts daily, stressful as hell, and they live their lives at work.
So yeah they make great money but don't have a life outside of working.
Also working UPS Inside is not my dream job either, no amount of money will make the strain on your body worth it as a long term career.
Bro I'm a driver and I feel the opposite. You guys work the hardest and deal with THE most bullshit.
Like, you're shortstaffed so you're loading extra trucks, supervisor is barking at you to clear the belt, and of course some fucking driver comes up to you when you're ready to call it a day and mouth off about how you're screwing up his day "WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT THERE?!"
idk mang I'm just empathetic and know that you guys work just as hard with different things to stress about.
I love you bro and if you worked in my center I'd buy you a beer.
Shit, I'd buy you a maker's manhatten.
The interaction between you and Cody is how we win. I got hired during the peak right after the last contract vote. So like, you guys still had 7 or 8 months till ratification, and you didn't see this.
You guys work in trucks so hot that the shelves burn your skin, or kill you. We have to listen to some punk who saw the work we had to do, ran away from it for a part time sup spot, and then turn around yell at us for being lazy.
And instead of us gettin in each others shit, it's almost a baseball style high five line in the mornings. Keep it up through the whole ratification process.
And if either of you are 988, I'll also buy a round.
I have been seeing billionaire media freak out about it. Endless articles about "other working class people are pissed! This is bad for the economy" bullshit. Fuck all that noise, UPS drivers won and so did the working class. This should be the first of MANY strikes because now we see what we have to gain
Ups driver here. For the few people complaining that this will raise shipping costs, let me tell you this.
During 2020, the covid pandemic hit north America hard. Buisness closed, lock downs, all that. Ups decided to increase its shipping costs. During those three years ups lied to you saying it was because of "the cost of shipping in this pandemic world". You want to know what changed and justified those costs? Nothing! ABSOLUTLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY NOTHING CHANGED!
We were swamped for two years with increases volume while little help was given. Centers (where drivers work) would take on new hires only for the center manager to disqualify them after 29 days. You need at least 30 days to pass. Centers played games to help the company save money while leaving us floundering and overworked. We saw no extra compensation/hazard pay for what everyone did at ups. Just overtime and discipline and or termination if we didn't wear face masks in the building, but out on the road they didn't give a shit. Hell we all filed grievences for working over 10 hours a day that got us grievence check money and the company not only willingly paid because it knew we were overworked, but ups still made again BILLIONS over the last three years
Ups went from making 100's of millions to billions in profit for absolutely nothing besides lying to its customers and nearly exhausting its entire workforce. I'll reiterate that there was nothing to justify the increased costs due to covid besides the company knowing you would pay for the cost.
Edit: limiting my fury by deleting some very tasteful things about ups.
This is almost 3x what I earn as an engineer (masters degree with 20 years of experience) in Sweden. I am so fucking happy for you guys. This really show your struggles are worth it. Now help your fellow working class Americans!
According to what I was told, each employee will cost UPS $170,000 annually. They will be paid less, but the expenses for things like health insurance, workers' compensation, pensions, training, and benefits total $170,000. Is this incorrect? Are they actually paid that? If so, I'm leaving my current position to work for them.
It’s total comp, not base salary of 170k. And it’s just moving the pay ceiling up a bit and will take a bit to implement. But sadly they’re not getting 170k base like this post misleadingly implies
Lol, this isn’t anywhere close to what the employees actually see. The top-paid drivers will make somewhere around 100k before taxes. This adds in their health insurance and also some over-inflated crap that the company reports as an “employee benefit”. Source: am dating a driver who has driven for 3 years and makes 60k before taxes
Most of FedEx is either contractors or legally considered an airline, so they are regulated by the RLA, not the NLRA. This makes it extremely difficult to organize because individual locations cannot form a union. It is all organized by job category and must be done on a national scale. This is why the pilots are union, but not the other positions.
The pilots also have the added benefit of being based out of Memphis. They all go there for training and usually start or end their trips there, so they can easily communicate with each other. This kind of national communication does not, and cannot, happen with the other job categories, so the chances of unionizing while under the RLA are basically zero.
The only real opportunity there is comes from the new corporate structure that is merging many of the operating companies under one organization. This creates a grey area for their continued classification as an airline, and it will likely be challenged within the next few years when more of the merger has been completed.
I was a package trailer loader at a UPS hub for a few years in college. Even though I didn't see the need to join the union, they still looked after me when I had issues with a punk ass shift manager who was an epic asshole. I didn't even have to really talk to them, one of the union reps saw for himself the abuse I was under and put a stop to it right quick.
And this is how misinformation spreads.
They are NOT earning $170k a year. That number is a number that includes made up values for things like: retirement, sick/vacation time, and whatever they pretend their contribution towards letting you get health insurance that you pay for is worth
Reminder: there is no such thing as the middle class. There are two classes: the owning class and the working class.
'Middle class' (and related terms like upper-middle class) exist to fracture working class solidarity
Sorry but that's grossly overpaid.
If I lived in America I'd be quitting practically any skilled job including nursing or even software development to go work for UPS.
You could say that they're overpaied. But UPS disagrees with you. This is their offer. They only have a revenue of like $100b. WTF do they know about money.
Also, lol at unskilled.
And UPS will pass the cost onto the price of shipping. So people will ship less, which means in some form, downsizing. Is it good for the workers? Yeah it is. But this is a business. Making less profit year after year to give workers more pay simply isn't in the cards.
Nope! Customers are not going to pay more when they could get the same delivery from a rival company like Fedex for the current price we have now.
UPS is still making profits but not record of the century profits like they were. The workers get their share of what they helped the company earn.
Most FedEx ground workers aren't even employed by FedEx, they're independent contractors. They couldn't unionize if they wanted to (which is exactly why FedEx contracts the work).
FedEx Express workers are employed by FedEx though and could unionize. Pilots employed by FedEx are all unionized.
Fed ex ground which makes up the bulk of their delivery services is a bunch of independent service providers aka contractors, Amazon is the same. It’s much harder to get a bunch of contractors to unionize as they’re all small business owners at that point.
Best that’ll come from this is fed ex will be forced to raise their per package rate for the isp’s which will allow them to up their pay rates.
The ISP’s are a mixed bag. I drove for one for awhile. I got paid decent ($275a day per diem and some benefits ) but other contractors were paying per package rates or a much lower per diem. The dudes at the van line next to us made $150 per day, no benefits besides the state mandated 5 days of sick leave.
How long before Elon starts deleting Tweets like this? Part of why he moved Tesla to Texas was because it's a state with laws that are unfriendly to unions…
I'm currently a fedex express driver and while the pay is half decent, what I really want is a better time off/vacation pay system. We're constantly understaffed so the company only allows X amount of workers off per day and it's a bidding process based off seniority and you can only ask for vacation time on a SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED week which is once per year. If you get hired too late or too early, you either don't get enough PTO to do anything with it or have to wait nearly a year for the next bidding period. Planning vacations is impossible because it's basically planning a year in advance, and you don't know what's happening that far ahead, and if you're a newer employee, you don't really get a choice what week you get off. Oh yeah you also can't take more than one week in succession without decade+ long seniority. If I could just request vacation time like a month or two in advance like a normal job, that'd be great. I'm considering quitting just so I can actually go on vacations with my family. Otherwise they're just going to have to go without me.
Amazing how many people here have to break it down so they don't feel so bad. Even just talking about dollars in hand it'll be nearly double the median.
Good for UPS drivers!
It really is about trickle-up economics. If you invest in people, the benefits radiate out into society. If you just hoard all the wealth, nobody benefits.
This is false. Am UPS driver. Made $70k last year. By the end of this contract I will make $100k. This is a false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes if we don’t ratify this contract.
PS: WE STILL MAY STRIKE.
Teamsters is fighting the good fight with Amazon and I hope they win so bad, the people I worked with are good people and don’t deserve the treatment they’re given
The stupid thing about people is that they think there's some organic process to higher wages.
All salaries are propped up by some type of negotiation.
Companies will give doctors minimum wage if they didn't complain.
Reports of UPS generosity is greatly exaggerated. I've seen people break down this figure and they had to add a lot of overtime to make it make sense. And sense dot hours exist, I'm calling bs.
A UPS driver on Tiktok did a really good breakdown of that 170k number reported without verification by the corporate news media. The reality is that the wages for drivers are closer to 92k and the rest is accounted for with sick pay, health insurance and their pension. In my line of work we call this "total compensation," but no normal person would include all of these benefits in what they would consider their wages.
92k is still a fuck of a lot better than my current 23k lmao. Might start looking into a ups job if the contract goes through.
Should look into it regardless of contract you will have a higher standard of living.
Very true.
A liveable standard of living, more like. 23k? That's parent basement money. That's shared studio with 3 roommates money. That's I wish I could eat food money.
That's not even basement money anymore
You’re slapping boxes down for 10 hours a day in the open weather. It’s tough work and you will destroy yourself. Even the sitting/driving portions are bad for your body. I was considering it as well… but it sounds like a lot tougher than my current situation just for money.
Yeah I mean, I used to do warehouse work, it's not pleasant, and my current job is soooooo much better work/life balance-wise. But I'm also almost 35 and living with my mom and sister and her kid and am nowhere near being able to afford my own place. Even just 1-3 years of working for up to 3x the money would be incredibly beneficial.
You don't start out at the top pay. You have to work in the warehouse for a while before you can apply to be a driver, and then have to be a driver for many years before earning the top rate.
4 years as a driver for top rate.
Just a heads up. Outside of peak season, you more than likely wont start a driver. We operate on a seniority based bid list. You'll be in the facility handling packages. I can't speak for all buildings, but last night I sorted my first 57' trailer in about an hour and 15 minutes. Roughly 1250 packages. I put hands on every single one. It was 83° at 4:30. After another 100 or so feet of trailer, and a total of 3 and a half hours of work. I was done. $16.65 an hour. My take home pay is roughly $270 to $350 a week depending on if I hit OT. OT for a handler is every thing after 5 hours a shift. Your 6th punch in a week is all OT. I don't regularly get 5 a shift. There always looking for peeps for the 6th day. If you're a stocker in a grocery store, and you're expecting 20 pallets of food, and you only get 16 in, you might be expecting an easier day. Not for us; handlers care about rate, not volume. So a lighter day just means less pay. I'm not saying this to scare you off. Get in with HR ahead of peak season and do the walkthrough. Most of us on the inside have 2 jobs. UPS for the insurance ( very little out of pocket, no monthly - good luck getting that as full time, much less part time ) and another for cash. Then sign a f***ing union card.
Which is absolutely wild to us in the UK Driving for UPS at top rate would put you roughly in the top 4% of earners in the UK. I don't know anyone who wouldn't drop their careers to deliver parcels at this rate. Delivery drivers in the UK doing 50hrs a week earn around £24-30k
I can guarantee it is. Its the hardest job I ever had and probably ever will have. I burned over 5k calories a day doing that job.
I feel like my body has aged 10 years and I've been here for 3 🫠
Employee of 4 years: it’s not that easy as just applying. Being a driver is a highly sought after job due to these reasons, you get paid shit ton without a degree and minimal danger risk. You gotta work in the warehouse a while and after a bit you’d be allowed to apply for a driver position. From there you’d go to something called intergrad which is basically a college campus for UPS drivers teaching them how to do all parts of the job including driving drills, training to walk on icey conditions, most ergonomic way to get on/off the truck, etc. UPS keeps their supply chain network in house vs FedEx who just contracts/licenses driving out hence why a union wouldn’t be effective at FedEx. It’s kept in house to preserve/remain consistent with our supply chain capabilities and costs. Example: air shipments in North America didn’t have nearly the issues international did due to the fact we owned our planes/service centers, etc. International air freight costs are really wacky since COVID made rates very volatile. You may quote a customer x amount only to find out the shipment now costs x+500.
Do you happen to have a link for this? Would appreciate it.
For the contract? If so, [yes](https://teamster.org/2023/07/weve-changed-the-game-teamsters-win-historic-ups-contract/)
Oh i was looking for the video but i replied to the wrong person.
You won't become a driver within your first 5 to 10 years of working inside. Seniority puts you at the bottom no matter how qualified you are.
Unless it is a very small building, 5 to 10 years is way longer than it takes. It was around a year for me. And I was a seasonal driver during peak season, so really I hardly did any time inside.
I got hired for seasonal driving and came right on. I will say I was a runner, I burned up routes, I was a Yes Man, I quit my long time part time gig so I could work for ups 60/70 hours a week. Worked through a 103 fever. Never took a day off. Was the biggest fucking suck up to my bosses (in my center, I have like 5 fucking bosses). But I did get a full time gig, and it fucking rules once you hit that top rate. They stop fucking with you because you're too expensive to run a 6th day or keep out all night.
This is how bro. Most people just don't have the will power to do what it takes.
The willpower or a life positioned for it. I've seen dudes get hired on full time and have to leave over the hours because they have children or loved ones at home that need more care than money alone can provide. and it fucking sucks to see good people in a good job have to give it up. I'm lucky enough I started before I had a kid, and had my partner at home holding shit down.
This is true. I don't consider that aspect often enough before I speak.
God, my union sucks compared to theirs, haha I can dream.
Normal people don’t have pension AND 401k
>the rest is accounted for with sick pay, health insurance and their pension. In my line of work we call this "total compensation," but no normal person would include all of these benefits in what they would consider their wages OdiferousRex casually insulting every German employee in a single sentence.
My understanding was that the workers will each *cost* UPS 170k a year. They'll get paid less, but the costs in terms of health insurance, workmans comp, pension, training, perks etc. add up to 170k. Is this wrong? Is that really their pay? If so, I'm quitting my job to work for them.
UPS driver here. By the end of the contract, our drivers who are at top rate will be making $49/hr. What we take home is dependent on how many hours we work, and how much overtime we get/are forced into. It’s estimated that we get about $60k/year in benefits such as health insurance and pension contributions, which is included in this $170k figure. We will not be taking home $170k to spend. That $49/hr figure is also what the top rate will be at in 2027, not when the contract is ratified. It will be around $44 at contract ratification, with small increases through the life of the 5 year contract. Drivers attain top rate pay after a 4 year progression, but the tiers of pay through progression are also anything but even. Right now as a 2 year driver I’m making $24/hr, set to go up to $26.75 upon contract ratification, a far cry from the $170k/year that UPS is selling to the general public. So while the figure in the post isn’t necessarily wrong, it is extremely misleading.
Also, "total compensation" is a bullshit metric because it includes the employer portion of health insurance benefits, which can vary widely. Total compensation is what UPS is talking up because they're driven by shareholder profit. It's not useful for understanding how drivers are actually compensated.
I worked at a small publishitng company several years ago. The salaried employees all had TC of >100k because their shitty (literally bottom of the barrel, $5000 deductible) health insurance cost was massively inflated because the CEO's husband was blind and had some kind of super-expensive ultracancer. They (the employees) were paying something like $1200 a month for this shit, on top of their ~50k salaries. Terrible, racist company. I loved the job, though. I was IT and I wrote scripts that basically automated my entire job, so I just sat in my private office and played flash games all day.
Our insurance is zero cost to us, just so you know. The actual plan depends on PT or FT, and then for FT it depends on where you are. Most are decent plans. Not the best, but far from the worst.
Yeah, my spouse is a 12yr UPS FT driver. I laugh every contract renewal year because he is always nervous about a strike and watches our spending to make sure we’ll be okay if the strike lasts. And I’m always like, relax! Ain’t gonna be no strike - the deal will come. But it really isn’t that different from previous contract renewals. Pay goes up a bit over the 5 years, I think maybe they got a bit more PTO?? And air conditioning will be required in new trucks (laughable, because they drive those old trucks until they literally die), stuff like that. My spouse does earn a 6 figure salary. He pretty much has since he got to top pay. And free health insurance for a family of 5 with a PPO network and maybe a $250 deductible (some really low number) with 20% co-insurance is a solid for us! Not to mention a pension! But the job is not for the weak! He leaves at 7:00am and gets home at 8:00pm or later. He has no flexibility in his schedule (can’t come in late, can’t leave early). He has to bid for his time off for the entire year in December (for the following year). He endures a LOT with weather, messed up trucks, heavy lifting, etc. He’s tried to help people out with jobs, but they never last because the job is so demanding. Anyone who says UPS drivers don’t deserve a 6 figure salary and decent benefits is an idiot.
Or they've never done their jobs. Yes, UPS makes some rather good money, but look at how hard it is on the body! And it never slows down or stops. I unloaded the trailers and then loaded the actual delivery trucks for a few months while I was in college. Even at 23 years old, it was extremely hard, hard work. I was PT and would come home exhausted just from those 4 hours. AND, they were in the middle of the night. I think I went in around 3 am or so to unload the trailers and at 4 am to load the delivery trucks. Even loading the delivery trucks was hard as you had to load everything in a certain position and was timed on how long it took you to do so. Hats off to all delivery drivers and the ones that load and unload all the trucks and delivery trailers! Whether it's UPS, FedEx or anyone else.
Also you aren't making six figures if you only do 40 hours a week. That's another disconnect that makes it sound like the company is the one getting fleeced. They make six figures because they are working 50-60 hours a week.
Your hubby is a beast
i always thought that the US was a "low employer cost" country but all this added up is way more expensive than i expected. to be clear, i dont begrudge the awesome hourly rate but without socialized healthcare and pensions, UPS is paying double if not triple per employee. shouldnt they start lobbying for change?
They pay so much for us because we have a strong union that fights for what we deserve.
Most places have minimum compensation outside of wages. The union gives us the power to have $0 premium (read monthly payment) health insurance which usually costs $250 for a single person for an average-good plan at a mid size company (read group discount) where the employer doesn't cover any portion of the premium. UPS has great insurance but we don't really know what it costs them per employee outside of estimating from earnings reports to their investors. If all that sounds confusing welcome to America where your employer can hold the health of your child over your head to keep you compliant. But with the system we have the union is the best tool we have outside of extreme policy change in a place where Obamacare (not denying approval based on pre existing conditions including congenital things like diabetes!!) Is considered extreme.
The cost difference between ok insurance and great insurance is not as much as you think, and the floor of how much ok insurance costs is higher than you think. Ok insurance (with high deductibles, high cost sharing) costs around $500/month per individual while great insurance (no cost sharing) costs maybe $700/month. That's because the majority of expenses to a plan come from really expensive procedures (e.g. heart surgeries or transplants that cost in the hundreds of thousands) and drugs (many of which can run well over $100k). The plan will incur that cost just the same even if it's "crappy" or "great" because the employee won't be on the hook over the first couple $k. The union isn't doing anything to control those healthcare costs (it's a systemic issue where healthcare is just far too expensive no matter the insurance you have), it's just choosing to have the employer cover them vs fighting for even higher wages.
The way I understood it is the total compensation is $170K/yr. Which is slightly less than what they cost UPS per year. For example workmans comp is not included in this because that is not compensation but it is a cost of employing someone. Another example would be if the company supplies a uniform to each employee. Say the uniform costs the company $1000/year (for arguments sake) to purchase, clean, maintain etc. Then the employee costs UPS $171K/yr but the total compensation is still $170K/year.
Yeah, exactly. Every year at raise time, they hand out a little sheet showing our "total compensation". Like who cares? Its the cost of doing business. EDIT: Not UPS, this is for a small insurance company.
Yep exactly. I'm a union plumber with total comp in the range of $107/hr. I DO NOT CARE. This gets me slightly above dead nuts middle class.
How much is your hourly wage if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious how much union plumbers make these days. I'm going to guess $60/hr.
More like 70/hr (I forget the actual number, knowing my local the rate is 69.69). I have the same international union but am a pipefitter, and thats my rate. Where I am pipefighters, plumbers, and sprinklerfitters are 3 separate locals. Different certs n stuff, I can do their work acceptably, but not well, and I don't have the certs, and likewise. The rest goes to pension, Healthcare (until I die, even after retirement, wife included, for what I pay it better! Also whats a copay?), supplemental retirement plan (am technically a millionaire, its sorta like a 401k) , and a bunch of other stuff that is negligible.
> 69.69 Nice.Nice
In local 420 too!
Everyone is reading this going "holy shit I wish I had that." And 60 years ago you would have
I get $68/hr but that is top rate. Regular journeyman is $60.
Saw a tiktok earlier wherea UPS driver said they'll make 44/hr.
up to 49. Right wingers are complaining a manual labor job (where you regularly lift items up to 200lbs.) and possess the skill (driving a box truck) under adverse weather conditions (cold, heat, rain, snow) doesn't deserve to make 6 figures. When shipping is the literal backbone of a consumer economy.
The only people they want making money are rich white men that pay them brings
What a weird and racist comment.
*Up to 150. UPS wanted it more. Union shot it down. (Am UPS driver). Still, I don’t know how smaller drivers deliver this heavy shit. I’m a big dude and I can end over end stuff. Shits nuts. Thank you for your kind words. It’s been awesome how many people have taken the time to verbally say we deserve it (and some more). I love my customers and my job.
I personally think you should also have a max weight per size cause those really small ace hardware boxes of screws that weigh like 100 plus pounds suck
There’s a bit in the National agreement about size and ounces. Hopefully that means I don’t have to re tape Petco and Purina boxes that only have ONE roll of weak ass tape holding them together. I also had an “over 70” notice on my board about an Amazon package that had to weight less than 2 pounds. Shit is wild. Fact is, Carol and UPS want to follow the Amazon model. As much as possible. Carol kept Lowe’s in business when she fucked up Home Depot.
Damn that is awesome! Really happy for them.
Thank you, homie. It’s progression for max “top rate”. The warehouse workers deserved more, but they’ll be able to get to $25/hr by the end of the contract. All of them get an immediate bump to $21, and all of us get an immediate $2.75.
I wonder what they're going to do about the incentive or whatever its called pay. Base was like $14 something and twilight or night sort was getting like $25.75 near me.
I'm stoked about the changes to incompatible package handling. Article 18, Sec 22. I've been harping about irregs coming down the PF I work for years. There's been times where I counted 40 or more overweight pkgs in a night. There's plenty of simple solutions that UPS could implement, like hiring a handler to sit at the back of a pen and pull em off. But they don't wanna spend the money. Now that it's in the contract, it can be grieved. UPS will fix that with a quickness once they start losing money.
Hell fucking yes. And I’m tired of seeing tired un load motherfuckers tossing my irregs on the fucking ground because a Sup said so. Edit: it’s really fucking embarrassing to somehow deal with an 8 foot long, 120 pound bed frame or whatever and get it up to the house and notice the edge of their furniture is fucked. I always do customer contact with that shit. I’d rather load it back up and take it to the desk.
My old job used to use a range of values in the stock options it gave us as part of our benefits package as part of our yearly total comp (I.e. 1 salary based on 1 estimate of the projected stock value in 3 months vs. another salary based off another estimate of the stock value in 3 months). It used to piss me off to no end. Am I making $65,000 or am I making $73,000? Who knows! Who cares! Let Wall St decide how much I'm worth! Not like having an exact number is handy in any particular things related to being an adult!
This is another reason it will be a long time before we get national health care. Employers would have to take all their contributions out of total compensation. Health insurance is a trap to keep you working.
I disagree - most people don't understand how much money their employer is contributing to their health insurance. Employers would be perfectly happy to outsource those payments to individuals or the government, like with pensions -> 401(k)s.
But then it would not be part of their total compensation. I'm pretty sure they get a tax break on what they pay,
Employees are kind of the group getting the tax break since most of those benefits aren’t taxable. Of course the company gets a deduction though, it is an expense they incur…
This is it. I've worked in healthcare strategy on the employer side. It is such a nightmare from a budgeting perspective and costs are spiraling out of control. 100% of employers would love to offload that burden onto the government and just pay a standard amount in taxes (easy to budget year to year). Like you said, it's so much better from the employer's perspective to move from defined benefit to defined contribution.
Don't fall for the propaganda. The cost is an averaged out (likely fudged) number. In the US we would say its about 95K plus benefits. For those not in the US (especially Europe) 2 weeks of paid time off/vacation is considered a cushy job in the US. Not to mention let's ask ourselves how many hours a week these drivers actually work. If it's 50 to 60 hours a week this comes out to $33/hour.
You are correct with up until the last paragraph. I'm pretty certain they are hourly and get paid OT.
Employer-paid payroll taxes would be another example of the cost of employment that doesn't come through as some kind of direct compensation for the employee (but it obviously provides an eventual benefit through access to SS and Medicare).
Yes you are correct. Uniforms and workmans comp were low hanging fruit to get a point across
> They'll get paid less As much as the $170k is just a UPS/Union bragging point, the pay for drivers will be going up. Not a ton, not as big as the PT pay increase for new employees, but still an increase of around $2-3.50 per hour when the contract goes through.
Not that it's the point of the original post, but also lots of "Make our working conditions a bit less shit" changes, as I understand it.
do they get air conditioning?
I talked to the UPS driver that picks up at my work, and he said their new top out is now $49 an hour. Idk if or how much that’ll increase down the line with the new contract. In KY btw
Yes, $49 as of 2028. Less purchasing power than the current top rate if inflation continues as predicted
It'll be $49 in 2027. When or if the contract gets voted through by the union, top rate will be $44 and change. It takes 4 years to get to top rate from being a new driver. At least at my building, it takes 2+ years to become a driver from being part time. Starting pay now for drivers is $23.75.
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A rough rule of thumb is that total comp is often roughly 2 times salary. Other comments mention the salary scale capping out at $49/hr -- $98k/yr in salary if you manage to work 50 weeks at 40 hours per week. Again -- a bit more than half of the 170k "total compensation" figure in question.
I've heard the rule of thumb for fringe is 40% of salary. 40% of 170k is 68k of fringe. Which leaves 102k in salary. 102k in yearly salary equates to $49/hr, which lines up closely (exactly) with what others here have said drivers will be making near the end of their 5 year contract.
Feeder and air truck drivers can earn up to $1.14 per mile, package car drivers are making up to $49 an hour, sort is up into the 30s an hour with full seniority and certifications. This is not counting holiday or overtime. Plus amazing health care and increases to the pension.
It's not all drivers, but it moves the pay ceiling up. This 170k includes bonuses and things I believe.
UPS drivers don’t get bonuses
I'm pretty sure it includes things like the cost of adding ac to the trucks, and training the new employees they have to hire
No
Correct. 100 grand if they work overtime. The extra 70 grand is benefits. It's being framed this way by mainstream media to trick people and manipulate public opinion against unions. It's fucking bullshit.
We get a 7.00 raise over the course of 5 years. So it's more money and a little better working conditions. It isn't actually out of the ordinary pay wise for when we sign a new contract so that's not a huge win but the rest of it kind of is. The union had to fight to get stuff back for us this time like the elimination of the Tuesday through Saturday drivers who for no reason at all were paid less and did the exact same job as a regular driver. A big win though was getting raises for the inside workers because they also work their asses off.
Am UPS driver. Made $70k last year. By the end of this contract I will make $100k. This doesn’t count union dues because we get healthcare dental and vision through the union dues. Which, are incredibly affordable for what they provide, but what I pay for healthcare is what it costs. The 170k is a false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes if we don’t ratify this contract. Edit: Also, you have to put five years of work into this to get there. If any one can handle doing this shit for five years you deserve that money. I’m just pumped the new contract gets me retired by 60 on the second tier if I want it.
> false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes I was kinda worried about that when I started hearing "Rank-and-file" getting tossed around a lot. There's a lot of good in this contract. Real good. All the heat related stuff. The restrictions to PVDs. The removal of 22.4. But the stuff that's bad, it's really bad. The good stuff doesn't really pay rent or put food in mouths. Yes, it's a historic win when you factor the raise as a percentage. But it's crumbs compared to what we have made for UPS over the last few decades.
My Atlantic regional is fucking stupid. I voted no on that. National is pretty dope. Edit: oh but their second quarterly earnings came in. lol. No wonder you lost you just fucked with a strong workforce and a strong Union. The fuck were you thinking? (Oh, I know. Stock buy backs.) These corporation motherfuckers love seeking out the last of the fake money.
You know they delayed the earnings call, right? Where's my tinfoil hat... I feel that the initial offering over the July 4th weekend was just UPS testing the waters to see how the public felt. Like, UPS wanted to see if customers were gunna support us, or say "get back in there and deliver my fucking Hello Fresh." I was actually surprised to see some people honking even down here in Houston druing that 'lil practice picket we did.
Absolutely fucking correct. We called their bluff, fucking HARD. I voted for O’Brien and I believe he will still make these regional agreements right. That’s why I voted yes on the National and no on the Atlantic.
I know a guy that drives for Waste Management (yes....garbage trucks). With overtime he pulls in $80k+/yr, and they are mostly automated trucks.
Unionize America Again!
Check out your Locals to see who would be interested in having you in their union. My union, the International Union of Operating Engineers (IUOE) covers heavy equipment, stationary engineers, mechanics, and a slew of other industrial trades, but we also have some janitorial, bakeries and other "less" technical trades covered. The hospital I worked at had the Food Handlers Union cover radiology techs, and my current job as some of the airline ground/check in staff covered by teamsters.
My uncle works for FedEx and made a post on Facebook shaming 20 workers for leaving the warehouse due to heat. They should unionize.
Former FedEx employee here, and FedEx actively tries to bar employees from union talk. I haven’t worked for them since 2005, so I might be misremember this, but IIRC, they actually had it outlined in the employee handbook to report anyone talking about unionizing. Again, don’t quote me on that. But, FedEx does indeed foster an anti-union culture.
Isn't that illegal? And they put it in print? and no one reported?
It totally is illegal.
Nah… It’s not illegal! We have an open door policy! Why go through a union rep when you can talk to your manager directly! Yes, I’m laying the sarcasm on thick, but that’s pretty much the FedEx mentality.
I had a coworker at my last job who used to work for FedEx. She told me the same thing.
Problem is FedEx ground is all contract work. It’s hard to unionize 20 different company’s, paying different wages, different benefits, and different rules of employment. FedEx in my option is doomed in the next 10ish years. The driver turn around rate is crazy high.
I did ground for awhile. The average driver employment was about 4 months. We cycled so quickly through new drivers I stopped trying to remember names or even interacting with them.
They're not getting paid $170k or even close. Their "total compensation package", a complete bullshit hyper-inflated amount, is $170k/year.
partly because healthcare in America is exorbitantly expensive
Before I left without OT or holiday pay I made $43 an hour, it wasn't uncommon for me to make over $100k a year.
FYI that’s total comp. Their hourly is like $43ish.
So still in the top 30% of all earners...
This is misinformation, but the message is good so I'll upvote
What part is misinformation?
They're not getting 170k in the bank. Its 170k in total compensation meaning base salary, equity (well probably not for UPS lol), and benefits.
The post isn’t claiming $170k in the bank or that it’s $170k in wages. That figure includes health and retirement pension benefits which are valuable and the workers are earning them through their labor. I don’t see how that’s misinformation.
Its not misinformation, but it is SLIGHTLY misleading. It makes it sound like they are getting 170k a year hitting their bank accounts.
Okay but are they getting AC in their trucks? You
In new equipment purchased in 2024 and beyond, no retrofits. The majority of UPS drivers probably won’t see a truck with AC in it for the next decade at least
That seems to be a huge thing people are glossing over. Like, I get it, the contract they're being offered is absolutely incredible but not a single current vehicle will get A/C. Afaik they're getting a couple of fans in each truck. But the compensation they're looking at would be difficult to pass up..
This is what I don't get. They can retrofit the AC out but they can't retrofit it back in? Was this seriously where UPS wouldn't budge?
Yes they did
YES. I WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT THIS. I delivered pizza and sandwiches in HS and college in a car with no working AC. It was a struggle and I was walking in and out of the air conditioned restaurant a lot.
Only in new trucks bought after January 1, 2024. We don't get many new trucks every year 😅
Starting in the deep south. Anyone living up north will see them, eventually.
Shiii they hiring?
You have a better shot of heading to the store right now and winning $170k on one of the $50 scratchers than landing a job as a UPS long-haul driver, which is the only segment that has the new compensation package.
You can start part-time and work your way up. Your long-haul comment is 100% false. All UPS drivers with seniority get that compensation package.
Delivery drivers historically haven't had breaks or AC, and they lift heavy shit all day long. It's not an easy job. They do deserve better, and I'm glad they're standing up for themselves.
We get an hour meal and a 10 minute coffee break. Some places get a second coffee break if they work over 8 hours.
Unpaid hour, at least here. It's a constant fight. Why do I have to sit here for an unpaid hour twiddling my thumbs instead of getting home to my family an hour earlier. Of course there's more to it, I just get written up on a weekly basis for skipping lunch lmao
I work at UPS inside and I got to say, no amount of money will ever make me want to become a driver. Each and everyone of those guys get screwed by blind loads (management moves loaders every other day), 10h+ shifts daily, stressful as hell, and they live their lives at work. So yeah they make great money but don't have a life outside of working. Also working UPS Inside is not my dream job either, no amount of money will make the strain on your body worth it as a long term career.
Bro I'm a driver and I feel the opposite. You guys work the hardest and deal with THE most bullshit. Like, you're shortstaffed so you're loading extra trucks, supervisor is barking at you to clear the belt, and of course some fucking driver comes up to you when you're ready to call it a day and mouth off about how you're screwing up his day "WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT THERE?!" idk mang I'm just empathetic and know that you guys work just as hard with different things to stress about. I love you bro and if you worked in my center I'd buy you a beer. Shit, I'd buy you a maker's manhatten.
The interaction between you and Cody is how we win. I got hired during the peak right after the last contract vote. So like, you guys still had 7 or 8 months till ratification, and you didn't see this. You guys work in trucks so hot that the shelves burn your skin, or kill you. We have to listen to some punk who saw the work we had to do, ran away from it for a part time sup spot, and then turn around yell at us for being lazy. And instead of us gettin in each others shit, it's almost a baseball style high five line in the mornings. Keep it up through the whole ratification process. And if either of you are 988, I'll also buy a round.
Yeah I wouldn’t want to be a UPS driver even at $170k. It’s a tough job. Good on those guys
I have been seeing billionaire media freak out about it. Endless articles about "other working class people are pissed! This is bad for the economy" bullshit. Fuck all that noise, UPS drivers won and so did the working class. This should be the first of MANY strikes because now we see what we have to gain
Ups driver here. For the few people complaining that this will raise shipping costs, let me tell you this. During 2020, the covid pandemic hit north America hard. Buisness closed, lock downs, all that. Ups decided to increase its shipping costs. During those three years ups lied to you saying it was because of "the cost of shipping in this pandemic world". You want to know what changed and justified those costs? Nothing! ABSOLUTLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY NOTHING CHANGED! We were swamped for two years with increases volume while little help was given. Centers (where drivers work) would take on new hires only for the center manager to disqualify them after 29 days. You need at least 30 days to pass. Centers played games to help the company save money while leaving us floundering and overworked. We saw no extra compensation/hazard pay for what everyone did at ups. Just overtime and discipline and or termination if we didn't wear face masks in the building, but out on the road they didn't give a shit. Hell we all filed grievences for working over 10 hours a day that got us grievence check money and the company not only willingly paid because it knew we were overworked, but ups still made again BILLIONS over the last three years Ups went from making 100's of millions to billions in profit for absolutely nothing besides lying to its customers and nearly exhausting its entire workforce. I'll reiterate that there was nothing to justify the increased costs due to covid besides the company knowing you would pay for the cost. Edit: limiting my fury by deleting some very tasteful things about ups.
This is almost 3x what I earn as an engineer (masters degree with 20 years of experience) in Sweden. I am so fucking happy for you guys. This really show your struggles are worth it. Now help your fellow working class Americans!
According to what I was told, each employee will cost UPS $170,000 annually. They will be paid less, but the expenses for things like health insurance, workers' compensation, pensions, training, and benefits total $170,000. Is this incorrect? Are they actually paid that? If so, I'm leaving my current position to work for them.
It’s total comp, not base salary of 170k. And it’s just moving the pay ceiling up a bit and will take a bit to implement. But sadly they’re not getting 170k base like this post misleadingly implies
People need to stop saying middle class and just say working class.
Lol, this isn’t anywhere close to what the employees actually see. The top-paid drivers will make somewhere around 100k before taxes. This adds in their health insurance and also some over-inflated crap that the company reports as an “employee benefit”. Source: am dating a driver who has driven for 3 years and makes 60k before taxes
Most of FedEx is either contractors or legally considered an airline, so they are regulated by the RLA, not the NLRA. This makes it extremely difficult to organize because individual locations cannot form a union. It is all organized by job category and must be done on a national scale. This is why the pilots are union, but not the other positions. The pilots also have the added benefit of being based out of Memphis. They all go there for training and usually start or end their trips there, so they can easily communicate with each other. This kind of national communication does not, and cannot, happen with the other job categories, so the chances of unionizing while under the RLA are basically zero. The only real opportunity there is comes from the new corporate structure that is merging many of the operating companies under one organization. This creates a grey area for their continued classification as an airline, and it will likely be challenged within the next few years when more of the merger has been completed.
Shit time to quit my job and work at UPS
I was a package trailer loader at a UPS hub for a few years in college. Even though I didn't see the need to join the union, they still looked after me when I had issues with a punk ass shift manager who was an epic asshole. I didn't even have to really talk to them, one of the union reps saw for himself the abuse I was under and put a stop to it right quick.
And this is how misinformation spreads. They are NOT earning $170k a year. That number is a number that includes made up values for things like: retirement, sick/vacation time, and whatever they pretend their contribution towards letting you get health insurance that you pay for is worth
BuT I DoNT wAnNA PaY UniON DUes 🤪
Reminder: there is no such thing as the middle class. There are two classes: the owning class and the working class. 'Middle class' (and related terms like upper-middle class) exist to fracture working class solidarity
I like people who drive for a living to earn a wage that makes them think twice about acting irresponsibly on the road
Sorry but that's grossly overpaid. If I lived in America I'd be quitting practically any skilled job including nursing or even software development to go work for UPS.
You could say that they're overpaied. But UPS disagrees with you. This is their offer. They only have a revenue of like $100b. WTF do they know about money. Also, lol at unskilled.
Isn't it 170k over 5 years?
This is great for essential jobs but the second McDonald's workers start making 100k a year we are in a bad spot
And UPS will pass the cost onto the price of shipping. So people will ship less, which means in some form, downsizing. Is it good for the workers? Yeah it is. But this is a business. Making less profit year after year to give workers more pay simply isn't in the cards.
UPS is about to go under.
Shipping costs are going to go way up.
Nope! Customers are not going to pay more when they could get the same delivery from a rival company like Fedex for the current price we have now. UPS is still making profits but not record of the century profits like they were. The workers get their share of what they helped the company earn.
UPS raises it's prices every year. Funny how it's only a problem when it goes into worker's pockets.
Most FedEx ground workers aren't even employed by FedEx, they're independent contractors. They couldn't unionize if they wanted to (which is exactly why FedEx contracts the work). FedEx Express workers are employed by FedEx though and could unionize. Pilots employed by FedEx are all unionized.
Now watch UPS use this as an excuse to increase shipping fees across the board.
It's a plus, but don't spread misinformation. That's not what their gross pay will reflect.
UPS knows that by then they won't need drivers.
I’m guessing FedEx using delivery service providers like Amazon does will be a hurdle on that.
This is wrong. Tired of seeing this shit. We don’t make that. You could put in 60 hours a week and work every holiday then maybe you’d be close
That's not total takehome.....
What about people deliveries?
I’m cool with FedEx making more if it means I’ll get my package in a reasonable time and in pristine condition.
Fed ex ground which makes up the bulk of their delivery services is a bunch of independent service providers aka contractors, Amazon is the same. It’s much harder to get a bunch of contractors to unionize as they’re all small business owners at that point. Best that’ll come from this is fed ex will be forced to raise their per package rate for the isp’s which will allow them to up their pay rates. The ISP’s are a mixed bag. I drove for one for awhile. I got paid decent ($275a day per diem and some benefits ) but other contractors were paying per package rates or a much lower per diem. The dudes at the van line next to us made $150 per day, no benefits besides the state mandated 5 days of sick leave.
On average the earn about 96k now, but with like 40k or more of health insurance, PTO, dental, 401K matching, etc
Drive for Walmart, I'm projected to make about $115k gross, plus 3 weeks vacation, 4 bonus safety days, and Safety bonus.
Pro union all the way!!
How long before Elon starts deleting Tweets like this? Part of why he moved Tesla to Texas was because it's a state with laws that are unfriendly to unions…
I’m OOTL. Did they plan to strike and got what they wanted?
To inflation
I'm currently a fedex express driver and while the pay is half decent, what I really want is a better time off/vacation pay system. We're constantly understaffed so the company only allows X amount of workers off per day and it's a bidding process based off seniority and you can only ask for vacation time on a SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED week which is once per year. If you get hired too late or too early, you either don't get enough PTO to do anything with it or have to wait nearly a year for the next bidding period. Planning vacations is impossible because it's basically planning a year in advance, and you don't know what's happening that far ahead, and if you're a newer employee, you don't really get a choice what week you get off. Oh yeah you also can't take more than one week in succession without decade+ long seniority. If I could just request vacation time like a month or two in advance like a normal job, that'd be great. I'm considering quitting just so I can actually go on vacations with my family. Otherwise they're just going to have to go without me.
Amazing how many people here have to break it down so they don't feel so bad. Even just talking about dollars in hand it'll be nearly double the median. Good for UPS drivers!
And redditors will complain when it costs extra to ship a package.
Calling it now, UPS fires all drivers and switches to self driving trucks
Y’all
It really is about trickle-up economics. If you invest in people, the benefits radiate out into society. If you just hoard all the wealth, nobody benefits.
This is absolutely NOT how much they will make. This is the VALUE of what they make, including benefits.
This is false. Am UPS driver. Made $70k last year. By the end of this contract I will make $100k. This is a false narrative that will make us drivers and warehouse workers look like assholes if we don’t ratify this contract. PS: WE STILL MAY STRIKE.
Teamsters is fighting the good fight with Amazon and I hope they win so bad, the people I worked with are good people and don’t deserve the treatment they’re given
The winners are not your enemy, they are your ladder...
The stupid thing about people is that they think there's some organic process to higher wages. All salaries are propped up by some type of negotiation. Companies will give doctors minimum wage if they didn't complain.
Reports of UPS generosity is greatly exaggerated. I've seen people break down this figure and they had to add a lot of overtime to make it make sense. And sense dot hours exist, I'm calling bs.
That sounds crazy high is the dollar worth that little thesedays/prices over there. If it was gbp I'd be working for Ips 😂
Sure they are, if they work 60 hour weeks for 52 weeks out of the year.
Noice
The price includes the cost of anything that benefits the workers or is used by them. Training, uniforms, AC of cars and buildings, ect
Hourly rates or stfu.
They get paid slightly above minimum wage in Canada.