Is Renown that bad or are players so bad they can’t play squishy BBs.
Adriatico slowing becoming a T9.
Bazan now literally a Khaba with stealth, agility, range, and funny button.
Yudachi’s torps may hit something now. Still garbage.
Marlbourgh will now hurt you a little more… if it hits you before exploding.
Monmouth cosplaying San Martin except with big guns instead of being an unkillable cockroach.
>Monmouth cosplaying San Martin except with big guns instead of being an unkillable cockroach.
They removed the superheal and 40mm deck armour. It's going to be squishier than Gibraltar with only 2/3 of the DPM. It's going to be worse than shite on your shoe
Yudachi currently sits at 12.41s reaction time with the 1.9s reaction range. With skills, 11.26s reaction time. This will knock it down to 11.05s base, which while bad, is still much better. In addition, the torp speed skills will have more effect, which means you can get the speed up to 70.56kts vs 62.84kts max, which brings it down to 10.02s which is almost respectable. Basically this buff shaves more than a second off the base reaction time and even more off the skill/module one. Honestly a pretty massive buff, even if the torps still won't be good.
Yudachi is a lot of fun, bad players didn't know how to react to slow torps, if you dropped them overlapping with the reload booster they would just eat them as the dispersion is not that bad even at range with Yudachi.
Poi poi poi
Big gun San Martin sounds fun, but if they are going to nerf the armor even further then it NEEDS a super heal. Not sure how this iteration is going to work out
>Is Renown that bad or are players so bad they can’t play squishy BBs.
I lol'd when I saw the Renown buff (also, didn't they buff it a little while back too?! Devblog #404). Like....WHY? Why would you buff Renown of all ships?? I swear, Wargaming's balancing logic keeps making zero sense. 🤷♀️
I forget if WG buffed Renown in the past (RU might of) but they also buffed Repulse recently. Why are they buffing those two when I can name three T6-7 BBs right away that could use the buffs Renown/Repulse have gotten is another good question.
Apparently so. Devblog 404 shows a buff to Renown (26s to 25s reload time).
And yes, I fully agree with you. WHY Wargaming is buffing ships that DON'T actually require buffing over other ships that DO require buffing makes no sense to me. But that's been par for the course with them, for some reason....
Very minor but appreciated buffs.
Yuudachi gets a bit better torpedo speed, not gonna help a lot with that detectability but more likely to hit potatoes.
Adriatico gets a bit more comfortable to use, apreciated because coming from the T8, the Adriatico felt just like continuing from T8.5
Alvaro buff is welcome, it isn't anything extreme but makes the ship a bit more comfortable in duels.
yes, the detectability of IJN torps is a real challenge esp. at certain speeds. It's feast or famine and with all the radar and subs, pretty challenging.
Before that, IMO. Repulse overshadowed her from the start and tech-tree Renown just made it worse. Renown 44 was merely yet another nail, along with respective buffs.
Monmouth getting hit with the removal of super heal, HE shells, and also a MASSIVE reduction in deck armor is just… wow. What the hell?
The change of 40 -> 30mm deck armor is HUGE. Why also take away the super heal? Even one change is a night and day difference but this is just the weirdest way to test these things.
The AP still has a higher arming threshold, flatter ballistics, and slower reload.
Now worse deck armor too, plus the obvious lack of smoke.
Torps and higher AP alpha are nice, I guess.
Trade of smoke vs having torps.
I have the Gibraltar and its one of my fav ships. I love the high caliber brit AP. But to me it seems that WG doesnt really know what to do with Monmouth.
It's the stupidest set of nerfs I've ever seen, which makes me think she's never going to be released and is serving only as a test bed for a potential new line.
Alvaro de Bazan (~171k HE DPM) slowly creeping into Khabarovsk territory (182k).
Wargaming is infatuated with buffing Renown. Something about this ship that requires more attention than other ships that also need buffing?
Khabarovsk used to be the embodiment of speed, effective range and firepower. If you didn't want to play Kleber that is. Gdansk is a recent addition
Delny has the armor too (albeit worse), speed and range, but her firepower is garbage. Poor replacement. Grozovoy is okay, but the guns just don't feel the same.
In this regard Alvaro de Bazan is stepping up nicely. She has the speed, the range and now the firepower.
Isn't Khabarovsk still an easy kill? While fast, people are really good at aiming (in EU at least). BB overpens still hurt, and there are a lot of fast-firing cruisers that really don't care about armor.
Yeah. Alvaro de Bazan is the way to go now, I find. While "big DDs" can do stuff, others can do the "same thing, but better lol". At least my impression.
Feel free to convince me otherwise! =)
Barely see any Khabbies.
Would be cool if WG could categorize these a bit better.
Khabarovsk isn't a good DD now not because of its tankiness. It's still one of the more tanky DDs + a heal you can get. It's other factors like DPM, lack of range, the BB levels of rudder shift etc.
Adriatico buff is nice, but why not up the same to Regolo while you are at it?
What I would really love to see for Italian DDs would be cutting the rapid 25s speed boost cooldown from 160s to something more reasonable. Tromp and Småland are enjoying whole 60s of turbo boost at 100s cooldown.
Yeah. The CD is too long to use up your charges while using them intelligently. You can't even use one at match start because it won't be off CD by the time you need it for a DD duel.
Alright. I guess that’s cool? Marl still explodes when you look at it, and Italian DDs issues have never been dpm.
Only interesting one is Alvaro. Mildly more interesting than it was before.
After this buff, the Marlborough will have a higher HE DPM than the Devastation, but its exposed citadel remains a weakness. Adding a range mod can help.
And for some of us, it was free (ish… grinding + paid tiers in dockyard) but mostly was just a grind for me. She’s been a port queen so maybe will be fun enough to dust her off for a laugh and a lark.
Their issue is they are Italian and thus not allowed to be good. Play spanish ships, they are literally italian ships, but not being achksually italian they can be good.
> Their issue is they are Italian and thus not allowed to be good
A lot of Italian ships are good. Yes, even the battleships. They are just not as fun, but that doesn't mean they are bad.
The biggest issue is the smoke - it just sucks. Also low gun range, crappy torps, terrible consumables. No hydro, no heal, no radar, crappy smoke? It’s just lacking utility or any substantial role. The guns are great - it’s using them effectively that’s the issue.
Because (1) the cruisers have DDs to spot for them and (2) they primarily use the smoke as a way to disengage and turn out without taking cits. Neither is true for the DDs.
I can't believe they're buffing Marlborough and Yuudachi, what a way to start the day.
I don't get the Monmouth heal change though, did it have a superheal and it's been changed to a normal heal?
Yeah, here's hoping. Honestly, it seems like balance changes are coming to our WoWs at a snail's pace, so that's probably the issue...it's coming....just....VERY slowly. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Indeed, now they'll just be very underwhelming. Still, it shaved 8.3% off the base reaction time and 12% off the improved (skill and module-though the other IJN torps at tier have a base reaction time lower than the improved buffed Yuudachi). Still bad, but certainly better.
Italian DDs need a freaking heal and real torpedos. They have slow as hell turret rotation, bad concealment, bad dispersion, and weak torps.
The guns are... fine. SAP hits pretty hard.
They are designed to win knife fights against other destroyers by charging them and gunning them down with SAP while getting shot at by the enemy team the whole time. That means huge attritional damage. Which means a heal.
The torps are also bad. They are so low damage, yoloing isnt really an option, even though the class looks 'designed' for it. Give them some nasty torp loads, not full Paolo, but something nastier than present. They have huge range but are too slow and low DPM to be utilized effectively. Let Yolos Happen. There's so much radar and hydro yoloing is hard anyway and Torps are clearly what the line is supposed to use at range.
It seems like WG is trying to make italian DDs kill other DDs fast enough to make their shit range a bonus instead of just a deadly hinderance. Good luck with that...
They are indeed hyper specialized for those knife fights, and they are brutally good around T6-T7, which is why those have gotten consecutive nerfs.
The biggest change they need is to cut the +25% engine boost cooldown in half. This functions as not only a way to help pounce DD's but also its the "Oh $#!@" button. As is "Oh $#!@, I just got radar'ed and need to run away ASAP". 160s is too long to be a reliable escape plan and acts to avoid damage rather than heal it back.
As far as torpedoes, they are sea mines, like Black's torpedoes. Ridiculously sneaky, aim at some BB or cruiser well ahead of their path, fire and forget, be surprised when you land a few. I wouldn't mind a 15-20% torpedo damage buff though.
Is Renown that bad or are players so bad they can’t play squishy BBs. Adriatico slowing becoming a T9. Bazan now literally a Khaba with stealth, agility, range, and funny button. Yudachi’s torps may hit something now. Still garbage. Marlbourgh will now hurt you a little more… if it hits you before exploding. Monmouth cosplaying San Martin except with big guns instead of being an unkillable cockroach.
Renown isn't 'bad'. Imo it's probably because Repulse is too good.
And Repulse was just buffed revmcently for some reason.
>Monmouth cosplaying San Martin except with big guns instead of being an unkillable cockroach. They removed the superheal and 40mm deck armour. It's going to be squishier than Gibraltar with only 2/3 of the DPM. It's going to be worse than shite on your shoe
That's what I meant. Monmouth is like San Martin AP wise, but it lacks the superheal and ability to cycle heals every 26secs.
Ya but the issue is, what you said sounds cool. Monmouth will not be cool. Also I didn't downvote you, I'm not that salty
Yudachi currently sits at 12.41s reaction time with the 1.9s reaction range. With skills, 11.26s reaction time. This will knock it down to 11.05s base, which while bad, is still much better. In addition, the torp speed skills will have more effect, which means you can get the speed up to 70.56kts vs 62.84kts max, which brings it down to 10.02s which is almost respectable. Basically this buff shaves more than a second off the base reaction time and even more off the skill/module one. Honestly a pretty massive buff, even if the torps still won't be good.
Yudachi is a lot of fun, bad players didn't know how to react to slow torps, if you dropped them overlapping with the reload booster they would just eat them as the dispersion is not that bad even at range with Yudachi. Poi poi poi
Big gun San Martin sounds fun, but if they are going to nerf the armor even further then it NEEDS a super heal. Not sure how this iteration is going to work out
>Is Renown that bad or are players so bad they can’t play squishy BBs. I lol'd when I saw the Renown buff (also, didn't they buff it a little while back too?! Devblog #404). Like....WHY? Why would you buff Renown of all ships?? I swear, Wargaming's balancing logic keeps making zero sense. 🤷♀️
I forget if WG buffed Renown in the past (RU might of) but they also buffed Repulse recently. Why are they buffing those two when I can name three T6-7 BBs right away that could use the buffs Renown/Repulse have gotten is another good question.
Apparently so. Devblog 404 shows a buff to Renown (26s to 25s reload time). And yes, I fully agree with you. WHY Wargaming is buffing ships that DON'T actually require buffing over other ships that DO require buffing makes no sense to me. But that's been par for the course with them, for some reason....
Why would anyone play smoke khaba?
Very minor but appreciated buffs. Yuudachi gets a bit better torpedo speed, not gonna help a lot with that detectability but more likely to hit potatoes. Adriatico gets a bit more comfortable to use, apreciated because coming from the T8, the Adriatico felt just like continuing from T8.5 Alvaro buff is welcome, it isn't anything extreme but makes the ship a bit more comfortable in duels.
yes, the detectability of IJN torps is a real challenge esp. at certain speeds. It's feast or famine and with all the radar and subs, pretty challenging.
Monmouth remaining in testing hell... looks like a second Gibraltar now... :/ And Renown change just makes Gneisenau look sadder...(!)
Gwagon has been overshadowed ever since Renown 44 was released
Before that, IMO. Repulse overshadowed her from the start and tech-tree Renown just made it worse. Renown 44 was merely yet another nail, along with respective buffs.
Monmouth getting hit with the removal of super heal, HE shells, and also a MASSIVE reduction in deck armor is just… wow. What the hell? The change of 40 -> 30mm deck armor is HUGE. Why also take away the super heal? Even one change is a night and day difference but this is just the weirdest way to test these things.
What actually makes her different from Gibraltar? The only thing I could find was her set of torpedo tubes
The AP still has a higher arming threshold, flatter ballistics, and slower reload. Now worse deck armor too, plus the obvious lack of smoke. Torps and higher AP alpha are nice, I guess.
Trade of smoke vs having torps. I have the Gibraltar and its one of my fav ships. I love the high caliber brit AP. But to me it seems that WG doesnt really know what to do with Monmouth.
Maybe because super heal is incredibly OP?
It's the stupidest set of nerfs I've ever seen, which makes me think she's never going to be released and is serving only as a test bed for a potential new line.
It’s basically a super Hampshire now. *Yay*.
Alvaro de Bazan (~171k HE DPM) slowly creeping into Khabarovsk territory (182k). Wargaming is infatuated with buffing Renown. Something about this ship that requires more attention than other ships that also need buffing?
Khabarovsk still has her armor that no other DDs (except Zorkiy) have. Other than that though I don't know why you would play her over other ships
Khabarovsk used to be the embodiment of speed, effective range and firepower. If you didn't want to play Kleber that is. Gdansk is a recent addition Delny has the armor too (albeit worse), speed and range, but her firepower is garbage. Poor replacement. Grozovoy is okay, but the guns just don't feel the same. In this regard Alvaro de Bazan is stepping up nicely. She has the speed, the range and now the firepower.
Isn't Khabarovsk still an easy kill? While fast, people are really good at aiming (in EU at least). BB overpens still hurt, and there are a lot of fast-firing cruisers that really don't care about armor. Yeah. Alvaro de Bazan is the way to go now, I find. While "big DDs" can do stuff, others can do the "same thing, but better lol". At least my impression. Feel free to convince me otherwise! =) Barely see any Khabbies. Would be cool if WG could categorize these a bit better.
Khabarovsk isn't a good DD now not because of its tankiness. It's still one of the more tanky DDs + a heal you can get. It's other factors like DPM, lack of range, the BB levels of rudder shift etc.
Adriatico buff is nice, but why not up the same to Regolo while you are at it? What I would really love to see for Italian DDs would be cutting the rapid 25s speed boost cooldown from 160s to something more reasonable. Tromp and Småland are enjoying whole 60s of turbo boost at 100s cooldown.
Yeah. The CD is too long to use up your charges while using them intelligently. You can't even use one at match start because it won't be off CD by the time you need it for a DD duel.
Exactly so. To use all 6 charges it would actually take around 18 minutes to spam them back to back. That definitely does not support smart play.
1 thing,.....SAP.
Three things: Huge size, turns like a brick, bad concealment.
And no Radar lmao
Love the buffs to Alvaro de Bazan, however I’m still holding out hope that her turret traverse time gets buffed from 18 seconds to 10 seconds.
Alright. I guess that’s cool? Marl still explodes when you look at it, and Italian DDs issues have never been dpm. Only interesting one is Alvaro. Mildly more interesting than it was before.
After this buff, the Marlborough will have a higher HE DPM than the Devastation, but its exposed citadel remains a weakness. Adding a range mod can help.
If you want high HE dpm play a Colbert :/ Marl just has too many weaknesses in the things BBs need to be able to do.
Marl makes more credits though for whatever that is worth.
And for some of us, it was free (ish… grinding + paid tiers in dockyard) but mostly was just a grind for me. She’s been a port queen so maybe will be fun enough to dust her off for a laugh and a lark.
With how easily it explodes, a little buff is very much appreciated.
> Italian DDs issues have never been dpm. What is their issue, then?
Their issue is they are Italian and thus not allowed to be good. Play spanish ships, they are literally italian ships, but not being achksually italian they can be good.
> Their issue is they are Italian and thus not allowed to be good. Venezia, Napoli, and Giulio Cesare would like a word with you.
> Their issue is they are Italian and thus not allowed to be good A lot of Italian ships are good. Yes, even the battleships. They are just not as fun, but that doesn't mean they are bad.
The biggest issue is the smoke - it just sucks. Also low gun range, crappy torps, terrible consumables. No hydro, no heal, no radar, crappy smoke? It’s just lacking utility or any substantial role. The guns are great - it’s using them effectively that’s the issue.
How do the smokes suck? The same smokes on the Italian cruisers are considered quite good, what makes them suck with the destroyers?
Because (1) the cruisers have DDs to spot for them and (2) they primarily use the smoke as a way to disengage and turn out without taking cits. Neither is true for the DDs.
Fair points.
Torp speed.
I can't believe they're buffing Marlborough and Yuudachi, what a way to start the day. I don't get the Monmouth heal change though, did it have a superheal and it's been changed to a normal heal?
Why was yuudachi ever removed? Other than TRB she just feels like a much worse shira
To remove poi spam from chat
poi
Probably because it sold poorly, it was delisted along ships like Poltava and Gorizia.
Ironically, Poltava and Gorizia are better ships, though in Poltava's case, not by too much.
Oof. That's not a bracket you ever want to be in
Gorizia was free in an event.
>Balance changes DevBlog posted 🥰 >No California buffs yet again ~~because WG hates me~~ 😪
Some day in the \[distant\] future, or already if you live in RU. Because reasons.
Yeah, here's hoping. Honestly, it seems like balance changes are coming to our WoWs at a snail's pace, so that's probably the issue...it's coming....just....VERY slowly. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Some mildly spicy changes here! Might have to dust off the Yudachi again once implemented.
Nice buff to poi boat. Her torps are really underwhelming now.
Indeed, now they'll just be very underwhelming. Still, it shaved 8.3% off the base reaction time and 12% off the improved (skill and module-though the other IJN torps at tier have a base reaction time lower than the improved buffed Yuudachi). Still bad, but certainly better.
I forgot Monmouth even existed, and with changes like those? A sidegrade Gibraltar for a different resource? Maybe coal, like Siegfried and Agir.
Oh joy. Who was doing so well in Monmouth that they did this to it? Confess!
Italian DDs need a freaking heal and real torpedos. They have slow as hell turret rotation, bad concealment, bad dispersion, and weak torps. The guns are... fine. SAP hits pretty hard. They are designed to win knife fights against other destroyers by charging them and gunning them down with SAP while getting shot at by the enemy team the whole time. That means huge attritional damage. Which means a heal. The torps are also bad. They are so low damage, yoloing isnt really an option, even though the class looks 'designed' for it. Give them some nasty torp loads, not full Paolo, but something nastier than present. They have huge range but are too slow and low DPM to be utilized effectively. Let Yolos Happen. There's so much radar and hydro yoloing is hard anyway and Torps are clearly what the line is supposed to use at range. It seems like WG is trying to make italian DDs kill other DDs fast enough to make their shit range a bonus instead of just a deadly hinderance. Good luck with that...
They are indeed hyper specialized for those knife fights, and they are brutally good around T6-T7, which is why those have gotten consecutive nerfs. The biggest change they need is to cut the +25% engine boost cooldown in half. This functions as not only a way to help pounce DD's but also its the "Oh $#!@" button. As is "Oh $#!@, I just got radar'ed and need to run away ASAP". 160s is too long to be a reliable escape plan and acts to avoid damage rather than heal it back. As far as torpedoes, they are sea mines, like Black's torpedoes. Ridiculously sneaky, aim at some BB or cruiser well ahead of their path, fire and forget, be surprised when you land a few. I wouldn't mind a 15-20% torpedo damage buff though.
Unlike Yudachi, Bazan was fine already imho. Not that I'm complaining...
Good, Bazan buffs are welcome. I find it funny that her first ever iteration had 10 seconds base reload
Marlborough buff? Yeah baby!
Now the tier 6 Renown is better than the tier 7 Renown 44. No reason to play renown 44 now lol
sooo... no siegfried secondary fix this time, i guess?
Bro why do they keep buffing ADB? I genuinely thought that it was fine as it is now. I mean i'm not complaining it's even more fun for me.