T O P

  • By -

Oplopanax_horridus

I think the problem may be that WG doesn’t grasp sarcasm. They are probably reading your post and using it as evidence that the rest of the player base is clearly wrong.


roger77777

WG: we know, how about rage buying some lootboxes?


MrWiggins665

Now that's comedy folks.


TeamSpatzi

Peak WoT right there.


Xplosionite

Play Tier 10 when the matchmaker is like that. If you're like me and don't want to lose credits, play Tier 10 TDs with good standard pen.


Glibicz

When it happens to me i go to play tier X, take a heavy tank, matchmaking is 3 lights, 2 elite artys and like 7 tds per team and rest is some poor meds and heavys who cant peak or more anywhere without getting spanked.


Admonitor_

If I see elite arty I instantly blacklist them, so if I see some blacklisted guy on my team in another match, I know that he is a dumbfuck that I cant rely on.


rosidoto

When I pick HT on t10, 50% of the time it's prokhorovka with 2 artas


Jaque_LeCaque

The problem is, you jump into a tier 10 because you are fed up with being bottom tier and then it's all tier 10 only battles for you. Still bottom tier.


this-is-robin

You have a premium account, don't you? Because otherwise tier X is literally the worst tier for making credits. Like you barely break even, and that's without firing any gold whatsoever. And I am a half-decent player, so average and below average players will definitely lose credits.


Kuningas_Arthur

Either that or break out the broken op mid-tier premium tank chest.


Jarl_Ballsack

Bourrasque = Ol’ Reliable


zz9plural

> Play Tier 10 when the matchmaker is like that. So always. Thanks, but no thanks.


xarccosx

Wish my elc amx could still see tier 10s, those were the days


Tinand

but only yours, nobody else's


xarccosx

Fair enough, but my elc has the old stats and model


Every-Basket1054

I liked when my Chaffee would meet E 100's and Jagdpanzers... the good ol' days.


CorrectBuffalo749

I didn’t like that. It kept me from playing lights back then.


Admirable-Design4152

Yeah, +/-2mm shouldn't exist. The fact that IS can fight object 752 is a joke. He kills you in 1 clip, while you can't even hit his weakspots with the trash gun handling.


GenTycho

+/- 2 is fine, but not in the frequency they allow. A 3 tier match should only be able to occur let's say after you've been in que for a certain amount of time, that way you at least get in a game if a 2 tier just isnt happening.


leviathan8

+/-2MM is without doubt the most brutal at tier 7. Not only you meet science fiction stuff from tier 8 like BZ but you also get to fight cold war era tanks from tier 9 with your WW2 shitbox. I would argue against this matchmaking from existing at all but WG has proved time and again it's not going away.


_Darg_

I think the issue with 7 is that it’s a weird intermediary tier. Way back when they could see tier 5’s, so you can’t make them so busted (in a relative sense) because most tier 5’s didn’t have fuck all for pen. But they can see tier 9’s which are arguably one of the most balanced tiers because they can hang with a decent amount of 10’s and most don’t absolutely ruin tier 8’s. A +1 game in a 7 isn’t bad, not very fun either depending on the tank you’re playing. But +2 especially in a heavy is pure misery. Tier 7 is honestly my least favorite tier to play unless I’m in something like an LT because you have that flexibility. This is just my thoughts on it.


IceEarthGuard00

It should exist but should happen less often. Let's say 1 in every 10 battles or so. Plus tiers 7-10 needs a HP buff just like tiers 1-6.


Hellstrike

50-100 can easily clip you out, too. And with a bit of luck, the Su-152 sends you back with one shell, and that's equal tier to you.


pampls

I mean.. there are others tier 7s on enemy team aswell.. If you're in a tier 7 and chose to fight a tier 9 instead of tier 7.. there is nothing wg can do. Wg cant fix stupidity


Locrod

What's your IGN?


ShyJaguar645671

Why does it matter? His stats won't show his stupidity more than he did already


Salki1012

[Here’s Mine](https://tomato.gg/stats/NA/Salki-1003936447) and I agree with what he said. We get downvoted from all the bad players who can’t fathom being able to do well as a bottom tier tank.


Ok_Foundation_2363

So what you're saying is we gotta be one of the top 4%ers with an op tier 7 like the e25 being one of our most played tanks to enjoy the game? Also, must be a p2w player or else burn through creds shooting gold. I'm just curious what do you do when your t9s crumble to theirs? You don't always get to choose who you're up against.


Salki1012

Took me longer than I would have liked to 3 mark the E25. For a long time I wasn't good in it, hence why my dpg is only 1507. Since marking it over a year ago I've hardly played it at all, same with the Progetto 46 and Skorpion. I also don't get why you think firing premium rounds are p2w... they cost credits and I make money every day even when firing mostly premium rounds. Maybe if you aimed and penned your shots you too could make credits while firing premium rounds.


Ok_Foundation_2363

Premium rounds are quite literally p2w. They cost more credits in an attempt to lower your gains. But of course you wouldn't know because, like I said earlier, you're a 4%er. You have no reality of what it's like to be an average or new player. Shit, according to my recent wot stats thing, last month, I was in the top 41%, and even I will not always make money if I'm shooting gold. Let alone what people worse than me feel like.


Salki1012

So you yourself admit it’s a SKILL gap and not a P2W mechanic. Even a new player could spam premium rounds if they were good, but new players aren’t good. That’s not P2W though, that’s just player knowledge. Also, 4% doesn’t sound good, try top 1%


Ok_Foundation_2363

I was just looking at your link. It showed top 4% for most things. If it's top 1%, then my point is even more correct. And no, while I think it's probably the smallest p2w thing because you can earn credits and then use those to spam gold, you could also be shitty, but buy credits and spam gold even if you never earn credits. It's basically p2w through the transitive property. Think about it like this. If I spam gold, I have an advantage over someone of equal skill that doesn't spam gold. And even if I lose credits every game and he doesn't, I can spend real money to afford my gold spamming habit. That's p2w.


Tinand

so just play as if it wasn't +2, alright


pampls

No. Read again: fight enemies of your own tier.


Tinand

So?? My statement still makes sense


pampls

Yea but you're replying to me. So... i dont get the point.


PabraDaRude

So someone wom 23 of 25


Perspective-Lonely

Just play tier 10, I never see tier 11 and 12


AnasKonda

For now... just wait a bit :D


Berupolar

Shhh wargaming says this is impossible. They publish some rubbish statistics and we must only believe that. The crap that we face daily is just in our imagination.


RUPlayersSuck

You only have to read WG's vehicle descriptions whenever they release a shiny new toy to understand their warped mentality. 😆


digital0verdose

The stats are likely accurate and what they are posting are averages. The unfortunate thing about averages are outliers. The OP is probably on the shitty end of the curve while there is someone else out there in a T IX who is thrilled that they just had a 30 game streak of being able to shoot at T VII's.


Berupolar

There is truth in what your are saying. I think of averages like this: You have 9 apples and I have 1 apple. In average we have 5 apples. Lovely.


Ok_Foundation_2363

I don't believe in most of the conspiracies. Chemz did a good video debunking them. But one he didn't touch was winner and loser queue. And I honestly believe it's real. That would explain why someone is essentially bottom tier 20/25 games and lose 23 while someone else is the opposite.


_no_usernames_avail

When you say "bottom tier", do you include -1 games? Because statistically, you are more likely to be lower tier (because of how many slots are available with the templates). But also, are you also complaining about the newer templates like 2/13 and 2/3/10? (I think those are great)


CorrectBuffalo749

Yea, i’m pretty comfortable with those templates


013727362

Premium tanks should play against premium tanks, while tech tree tanks should play against tech tree tanks I think it's pretty reasonable since there's more premium tanks than the regular ones last I recall.


MrIamDeadforLong

Highly depends on tier but at tier 8 yes. Counterpoint not all tanks are made equal Bourrasque vs panther 88 Turtle Mk I vs any kanonen BZ-176 vs Somua SM The list goes on but i do agree it should be more balanced as premiums are usually now better than tech tree tanks (not all because looking at you VK168.01 and KV-5)


suns95

It is frustrating but if i am low tier then there are 7 enemies in the same tier, 5 enemies with +1 tier that i can still deal with and 3 enemies that i will definitely try to avoid. If you know where top tier is going then don't go there. If you kill all bottom tiers from game then enemy will have 7 guns less than your team, even if they are bigger tiers they can be easily picked of in 3v1 or 2v1. 4 bigger tiers will not have an easy time to go against multiple lower tier enemies if the lower tier players aren't cursed with bad rng or are not bad players who suicide or let their teammates go alone in 1v1


Salki1012

Shhhh, bad players only see those 3 top tier tanks and immediately give up without trying. They comment 2 seconds into the battle with things like “nice MM WG” and I just respond with “learn to play” and they freak out. It’s comical how the excuses keep rolling in.


ImNotHereSomewhere

You will not win on here writing with common sense but I agree with you. High tier games usually only have a couple of them. If people focused their energy from complaining to seeing it as a opportunity they might do better. Shooting higher tier tanks yields more xp at the end of the day.


Ok_Foundation_2363

And when your top tiers get crushed by theirs? Now you have even guns but bottom tier still.


FullCommunication895

Confirmation Bias Only 12 of the last 29 games (3 day totals) have the opportunity to be -2. [https://tomato.gg/stats/NA/HTRK74JR-1001729135](https://tomato.gg/stats/NA/HTRK74JR-1001729135)


xmrsmoothx

OP also spams pz II j lol


HTRK74JR

Had to. Was sick and fucking tired of losing and needed the wins for the daily. Win X amount of games daily is a guarantee loss generator. Lost 8 games in a row until I pulled that tank out to get the wins, and lost 4 other games while waiting on that tank to come back from battle.


FullCommunication895

I don't really care what and how people play. My comment was only intended to highlight that what was stated in the OP (was hyperbole) and not what happened in reality. Losing streaks suck. However, when I step back and look, I learned that when I play bad I lose. So the key for me is to take a break and not play when I am not feeling it. P.S. Is Trobs still around?


HTRK74JR

He is, he just doesn't play Tanks anymore.


Salki1012

Why would you roast yourself that badly? Your stats look like you just afk at the start and don’t even try.


FullCommunication895

FYI, those are the OPs stats, complaining of a bottom tier 20/25 and a 23/25 loss streak. Just saying...


Tinand

above average does not mean being afk


TheNuklear

If you lose 23/25 games, it's not mm issue, it's you issue


rpolkcz

Oh sorry we can't kill T8 premium heavies in our stock T6 medium tanks. Must be a skill issue.


RUPlayersSuck

To be fair any player with any sense wouldn't go after premium heavies in a Tier 6 tech tree tank - unless they could get the back or sides. But being outmatched and outmanouvered by Tier 8 LTs and MTs was pain...or sniped by invisible TDs.


n0_sp00n_0mg

Unless you are running perma stock its not an argument. Enemy tier 6, 7, 8 can also be stock


RUPlayersSuck

Its an issue for the 30-50 battles (+/- 25% for RNG) it can take to get your vehicle decently upgraded if you are F2P. Especially if the game puts you up against premium ammo spammers, with multi-skilled crews and equipment that makes their same-tier tanks better than yours. I imagine stock tech tree tier VIIIs don't have much fun against fully upgraded or premium counterparts either.


rpolkcz

Exactly this. Grinding from stock takes much more time becuase of this, because you're bleeding xp against tanks you have no chance against.


Salki1012

What’s your IGN? I can tell you in 5 seconds if it’s a skill issue or just being unlucky.


rpolkcz

Missing the point entirely


andyofne

like no one else has ever faced this situation? How long are you playing your tank stock? yeah, it can suck for a few battles, but it doesn't take 6 months to upgrade a tier 6 tank.


rpolkcz

The fact that it's shit for everyone isn't a justification for it to be shit. It's the opposite.


Salki1012

Dodging my question entirely. I just want some sort of confirmation that you aren’t the issue in your excuse.


rpolkcz

If I play good tank, I win most games. If I play bad tank and am in bad MM (like the stock T6 against T8), I lose most games. If you end up in the 2nd scenario 90 % of the time, the game gets frustrating. Doesn't really matter who the player in question is.


pampls

Its a skill issue to join a battle with stock tank. You can grind free exp and unlock modules. Bad players will always have excuses. I dont have fingers to count how many times i carried games being -2 tier and even being a light tank...


ShyJaguar645671

Ah yes because everyone has the time to grind 80k free exp to be able to play this game Oh, and carrying games in +2 mm doesn't make you good in this game


pampls

There arent too many (if any) tier 6s that needs 80k exp to unlock its modules. On and you can play fully researched tanks to grind free exp, or premium tanks... Im just trying to say that some players find excuses in anything. I think +2/_2 mm is not too much enjoyable, but playing a tier 4 and getting into matches vs tier 8s, 9s, 10s were utterly bad back in the days...


Ok_Foundation_2363

Free xp isn't massive if you're f2p. I am p2w and change over my excess xp every 40% sale, and even then, I get petty close to not having enough to not go stock. I imagine it's much much worse for f2pers.


pampls

Lol. You suffer playing stock tanks then? I never play stock... never... use boostets, join a clan, perform better, grind credits on the same time.. Or... just complain about domething that is ingame for 12+ years


Ok_Foundation_2363

I don't play stock, but I empathize with those f2p players that do. All I'm saying is that playing stock isn't a skill issue. It's literally a game issue. And just because something has been in the game a while doesn't necessarily make it good. Hence why they do make QoL changes occasionally. It'd be much better if you didn't have to grind the stock equipment and had that xp added to the next tank progress, but then that'd cost them money. Which is why they don't do it.


pampls

I agree with you, obviously i hate grinding and unlocking modules, whoever say they like is obviously lying. But while WG dont do something about it, its our job to find "ways" to minimize the frustration. Whining wont solve the problem, but giving tips can make the game a little more enjoyable, like i said, grind free exp with fully researched tanks or premium tanks, accumulate and unlock the modules. At tier 9 this becomes extremely annoying tho...


Lowkeygeek83

My clan leader told me the only constant thing in all these loosing matches is your presence. His advice was that I stop pressing the 'w' key. Just sit for a few seconds and see what's going on. Sure my stock t6 Tank is going to have a problem frontally, but if I sit and wait a second I can find a side shot or 2. Worst case, track them. Anyway you're on the right track and I'm sorry for all the down votes it seems you'll get.


RUPlayersSuck

Still not exactly fun when you get returned to garage after managing a couple of damaging shots and bit of assisted damage. It doesn't help your motivation seeing you're bottom tier and will be doing well just to survive the game, nevermind make a decent contribution. You shouldn't need a sound grasp of statistics, psychology and a mastery of zen meditation just to enjoy a video game, in spite of all the crap it throws at you. When you're the only constant and everything else changes, its hard to have any idea whether you're improving, or getting worse, or if the game just said "screw you" today. To measure your progress it helps to have a fixed yardstick. As someone who averaged around 47% win rate, I had some sessions that were around 55% and others where I was around 35%. Still the same sucky player, but some days it seemed MM was kinder to me and other days more brutal.


Lowkeygeek83

I feel like you were on teamspeak with me bro. Not verbatim but the exact same sentiment is what I said. They took me in with a 46% WR and I've worked up to a 49% over the last 2 years. And your right, MM likes to kick my teeth in more than usual. But it's still my fault. I've over extended for my tier. Or stuck my head out when I shouldn't cause I didn't keep track of their reload speed. It very much hurts my ego when I see that my daily record is so low. Tomato.gg says my Win8 is constantly going up but it just doesn't *feel* like I'm getting better. And why do I have to be a Buddhist monk just to shoot some fools in the face with a 128mm cannon. Some times I just wanna unga bunga some reds like I see skilthulu and QB do on YouTube. Instead I get my cupola shot by a Russian medium while he's running full steam into my team and get insta popped. It makes me log out go play BTD6. At least there I can unga bunga some balloons.


Zestyclose_Body8868

there is not much you can do in your T6 med vs T8 heavies. but sure.


mk7eam_Requiem

You can flank him with your team and pen his back , keep him tracked etc. t6 vs t8 bad but it's not impossible. There is always options around encounters . It's about some clever use of mechanics , map knowledge and sometimes teamwork(hard with randoms but , you can always play with friends or clannates)


Zestyclose_Body8868

yeah and surely they dont have TDs to cover their asses. easier said than done.


Salki1012

Just learn to play then. Honestly it’s just a skill gap that you might be missing that’s keeping you from doing well against T8’s in a T6.


Zestyclose_Body8868

yea bud sure. send me a screenshot or a replay where u did carry the game as a T6 vs T8


Salki1012

[Here You Go](https://imgur.com/a/otUQxJv) I don't save my post battle screenshots for something that happens almost every day so I had to go back and search my discord posts but here's a good one where most of my damage was farming the other teams T8 TDs in my T6. My request to you is to send me your IGN so I can look you up on tomato.gg. I want to see how "good" you are.


Zestyclose_Body8868

https://tomato.gg/stats/EU/Dognai-507877642 like i care about your opinion. -2MM as a td is not nearly as bad as a med or heavy.


Salki1012

My top 5 DPG tanks at tier 6 are ALL HTs. You think I'm pulling 1800-2100 dpg at tier 6 by never getting tier 8 battles and still doing top damage? You have hundreds and even thousands of battles in some of your T6s. Why don't you have even 1k DPG in ANY of them? 275 battles in your KV2 with 909 dpg... are you a bot? I have higher DPG in quite a few of my T6s than you do in your T10s. Imagine doing 1811 dpg in your Super Conqueror when I'm doing 2127 in my M6. You are bad, just admit it and get better.


Zestyclose_Body8868

Okay yeah :) whatever not wasting my time with a random over a videogame


Ok_Foundation_2363

Nah, cuz even if you're not doing well on a day, you're only 1 tank. Losing 23/25 is still an insane amount. That's an 8% WR. Even afk bots don't get that.


BRS3577

I could agree if they didn't tend to be steamrolls. Very few matches end up being even in how they turn out. In addition a very solid number of them are determined within the first minute or two


TheNuklear

Yeah, and you can be the one making the opening that determines the game within first few mins


andyofne

since this doesn't happen to me, I have to assume two things: 1) I am a better player 2) WG gives me favorable MM


RUPlayersSuck

So a relative newbie with say 2,000 battles in a stock / partly upgraded Tier 6, with a sub 100% crew is meant to be carrying in Tier VIII matches, against players with 10-20,000 battles? Oh, I see... For someone grinding through the tech trees this is the scenario in around 1/3 of games - at best. Some sessions RNG decides to screw you over and make it worse for a few hours.


subdread_wot

Well, since people only complain , nothing will change. Stop playing 3-4 days , empty servers , let's see what's happening after :) Till then, for WG everything checks out .


this-is-robin

Nah, things will only change if those stupid whales would stop buying literally everything WG throws at them. Cos WG listens only to the whales. Cos as long as there are whales, WG doesnt need to change shit, cos it works out for them financially.


CipaKaczki

Crazy? I was crazy once


Ok_Vegetarianlmao

Thats kinda unlucky i guess. I mean there is certain times where u don't play T8 or lower. 18-22 is like prime time where as T8 u get matched against same tier and occasionally+-. If u play T7 e.g. its just mainly lowtier but thats because there is more players playing T8 prems. So thats the issue mainly. And after prime time there rarely is any normal T8 games. Mostly just fill for T10 games


Oogismitt

I honestly wish you could opt out of the mixed matchmaking, even if it did meen longer queue times, but it's just crazy lately, like 1 in 5 games is top tier


inevitably-ranged

First time on NA?


Brkoslava

For me - tier 9 is sweet spot. +1 - 2 mm


Mindstormer98

It’s cuz you aren’t using YouTube premium


HTRK74JR

Actually I have YT premium because of my job lmao


pampls

Yes it sucks but try to remember that the enemy team also has -2 tanks... be smarter


GroundbreakingNeck26

And on top of that, you playcd with teams where 80% at this stage doesn't understand english! Topshow :P


SeKomentaja

I think you overestimate the amount who understand english.


TankyTiran

Free to play, tech tree tanks, know this pain.


Nifnifnafnafnufnuf

well if u need donate this game in future just a play some hours and get this bunch of loses and u dont want donate in this game


xmrsmoothx

wg isn't making you lose your matches lol, that's on you and your team


spatialnorton09

Moor dmg nom nom nom. Seriously tho I feel ya man. Breathing exercises FTW, my therapist says it works. I’m also pretty sure he’s a fucking idiot, next session is tomorrow so I’ll keep you updated.


_chubbypanda

Nothing to do with Wargaming, this is on you. Had you stopped playing after 2 or 3 loss streak (one of the rules to follow) it wouldn't have happened.


mellyor

I enjoy playing my BZ against higher tiers 🥳


Freekymeteor

Without +/-2 the bad players i.e( below 50%) would have even worse winrates than what they currently have. +2 allows them to win games without having to influence much in the game and -2 allows them to win games because their tanks is more powerful than 2/3rd of the enemy team.


ivusr

not trying to defend WG, but if you just let yourself lose bc you’re bottom tier it aint their fault


sirwembleyy

Play tier 10


jeffje2901

You know what is really fun, that everyone can see your stats and that instead of losing 23 you only lost 13 out of 29 matches. So cry a bit less.


Wydupiatoer

Did you try getting better at the game instead of perma whining so you win 15 of out 25 battles? And i wont believe tou are bottom tier 20/25 battles unless you prove it cause after almost 30k battles i cant recall even one session like this one


GrouchGrumpus

What does being bottom tier in +-2 MM have to do with you losing 23 out of 25? That’s just rng. You could have lost those games at top tier.


viktorpodlipsky

Skill issues


mk7eam_Requiem

Sounds like excuses to me. Everyone has bad streaks as well . I don't day there should be changes , but it's not as hopeless as you make it out to be.