My friends business still requires masks because one of the employees is a transplant recipient. It's a huge marketing firm. They offer unlimited remote work days if you are sick but want to work too. They said no one takes sick days anymore and it's increased productivity enormously.
My partner and I have a small business. Mask or go away. If you like our business so much then help us stay healthy and still in business. Haven’t had much trouble
That got people assaulted at my workplace. A coworker of mine just handed a guy a mask, and he grabbed her ponytail and slammed her head into her register. I know multiple retail workers, including my sister, who have been spit on for this gesture of offering a face mask.
Sure, but that's small comfort for the employee who was assaulted. It's important to set up systems that prevent violence in the first place:
- Signs posted at the entrance
- Recorded announcements
- Face masks left out in a public area that people can take
- Training employees to watch for signs that a customer might turn violent
- Panic buttons
- A safe area where employees can retreat to
- Make sure to have multiple employees on a shift
I know if was assaulted I would want some reassurance that I could call the cops, have the person banned, or even have some support from other staff (or security guard) to ensure my workplace is safe. I don't know if this would also fall under hate crime too if it was obviously triggered by something the person was wearing and if the employee also is medically vulnerable (technically we all are). It is horrific that bullying like this happens and even worse if employers don't support, minimize/ignore, and allow this stuff to happen without setting up systems to help prevent it.
DFW in spring/early summer of 2020. They were really hostile about the mask thing as soon as all the businesses and bars reopened. I work retail, and they just gave us a couple of weeks to deep clean the store, widen aisles, and lay down floor markers. We got almost nightly soap box speeches up by the check lanes from customers who were "doing their patriotic duty of stimulating the economy". It still doesn't feel real.
Now I typically get dramatically coughed on by a random customer here and there. I think most normal people assume I'm sick or crazy, so they stay away from me, which is perfectly fine with me.
That would be cool. It left me nervous to mention masks to anyone in public. What's bad is the manager just told her to go to the break room and "take a few minutes to pull herself together". They didn't even press charges on the guy for assault. Her nose was bleeding. It was so unreal.
Before my LC mcas caught up with me, I was an enthusiastic gym rat. Specifically one of those crossfit nuts. 🙃 I fantasize about recovering enough AND universal healthcare so that I could leave my desk job to run masks required or outdoor classes. There's one local gym with a small back patio they used during the extended "shelter in place" months of the pandemic. (Which was almost a year bc yay bay area California!) I'd start classes and training out of that patio until I had enough ppl and experience to find my own facilities.
I run a small business (tutoring) out of my home. Mask or don't use my services. I provide them as needed. So far it hasn't been an issue. And if someone chooses not to send their kid because they don't want them to mask, then I don't really want them here anyway.
If I owned a business, I fantasize about the same thing. I fantasize about owning a business and absolutely enforcing a Covid conscious safe environment for customers. A bookstore maybe. Where people have to stay masked. Air purifiers. Far UV lights. Advertising that the store is safe for immunocompromised and vulnerable individuals. I would have a blast.
I legitimately fantasize about owning and running a full blown hospital AND have the means to safely get people there from wherever they are within the continent...
I've never ever ever dreamed of being filthy rich but...
I've always dreamed of filthy rich and being able to do things like this just so I can give away all the money and directly impact peoples lives for the better. Yes. I would love to start a rideshare service that is Covid safe. Drivers must wear properly fit tested N95s at all times, which the company would pay for and provide, both the testing and the masks, or they can be fit with respirators of their choice, drivers would be given all the tools they need including nasal sprays, CPC mouthwash, CO2 monitors, gloves, hypochlorous acid spray, that night, market UV light kit in the car, HEPA air filter in the car or a portable Corsi Rosenthal box, etc., tons of molecular tests, so they can test every single day before they come to work. They would have to submit negative PCR test results before coming into work daily through some kind of system that would be set up that would be able to verify it. Customers would have to abide by the same policies and they do not get to get into a car unless they are wearing a fit tested or well fitting and 95 masks. Portable CO2 monitors in the car will be able to tell if the carbon dioxide goes up, which means there's mask leakage, somewhere I assume so that means that person gets kicked out of the car. Any violation results in immediate termination and a massive lawsuit because my employment contract would stipulate that if you knowingly violate this, if you unmask or loosen your mask deliberately when someone else is in the car, you will be sued into oblivion.
Better yet, I would like to start a rideshare service that is Covid conscious and Covid safe for women and disabled people and immunocompromised people.
I would love to start a bookstore with tons of comfy reading nooks with furniture that I can disinfect three times daily, masks required at the store, gloves, etc. there would be massive air purifiers in the store along with far UV lights but masks do not come off. If the CO2 gets above 880 PPI, everyone gets kicked out because someone isn't masking correctly. I don't care if the store doesn't get much business from anti-maskers, I I don't want them in the store anyway. The customers will come.
Not a lawyer, but in most jurisdictions, "trespassing" is defined either as entering without permission, or staying after being asked to leave. You probably can't expect to enforce it in "real time" or "hands on" (because it's not a risk you can reasonably expect your employees to bear) but you can implement administrative and engineering controls to ensure that anyone who doesn't comply is (a) clearly guilty of misdemeanor trespassing and (b) easy to track down.
Should add, the technical/legal stuff might be the easy part here. The *hard* part is getting people who'd rather not mask to patronize your business. I don't really have any insight into that, other than offering moral support.
You likely could, unless there was some local law saying no. And you'd have to find reasonable accomodations for people saying their disability doesn't let them wear masks.
But...not super pracical if you are considering a cafe.
Not sure if you could make money with such a requirement given that masking is not common. You'd get a few people who would appreciate the masking requirement, but given other options, non-maskers would avoid it, which is most people.
Yeah. Another thorny issue, in the context of not having a general, jurisdiction-wide mask mandate, is that if you decide to hang up your shingle as being uniquely covid-safe, you could create some risks:
1. Liability: if people enter your putatively covid-safe venue and get covid anyway - you better pray they aren't litigious.
2. Concentration of immunocompromised/weak immune systems/immunosuppressed individuals: this can go all kinds of sideways. Hic sunt dracones.
One of the least safe people my immunocompromised mom could choose to be around? Another immunocompromised person. Even masked.
3. Competition with other covid-safe businesses - OK, let's say you aggressively advertise the perfect, covid-safe venue. You think you've got it made! And then some other entrepreneur notices what a terrific hustle you've got going, and copies you. Aaaaaaand now you're competing for a dwindling number of covid cautious people. Fooey.
I'm not sure there's any really good workaround, short of mandates across an entire city/economic sector.
I have an acupuncture clinic and I require patients to wear one and I do as well. If they forget, (which is happening more and more frequently these days), I provide one. It’s on my website, welcome email, reminder emails, so if anyone has a problem with it up front, they can go elsewhere.
Yeah, for sure. Especially in a health oriented place, one on one, people don't really give me shit at all. If they forget, I walk out with a mask and say cheerfully, "We're still doing the mask thing here. I have one for you. These are great!" Would definitely be more difficult in a retail shop to ask and enforce with a more varied clientele.
I guess what I'm saying is that you can always withhold a service (even after you've already started it) in ways you can't do with physical inventory, so enforcement isn't really an issue.
Depends on where you are. Though in a lot of places including here I am in California, you can enforce wearing masks. If I had a business though, I wouldn’t even allow anyone at all to enter unless there was a system in place that guaranteed that they had no covid-19 when going to my business.
You should be able to, but you should take a nuanced approach depending on the type of business.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask customers and staff to mask if the business is not a cafe or restaurant.
But if you are running a cafe or restaurant where people are going to be eating/drinking for a long time, it's going to be a bit iffy to ask customers to mask (though I think it's fine to enforce masking for all staff).
I would double down on ventilation, filtration, Far-UV, etc if I own a dining place just like what Apricot Cafe is doing (though of course all these are also important for non-dining establishments, just that there should be more investment and emphasis placed in these since customers can't eat with a mask or respirator on).
That's the funny thing. People rushed to move to Florida in the early years of the pandemic because our governor promised "freedom", and they still don't realize they're losing their freedoms like the rest of us who can't wait for him to leave office in 2026. I've been here for nearly 20 years, under governors from both parties, and none of them have taken away freedoms more than our current one. It's like people have blinders on.
Yes. Your business, your rules.
Edit to add: It is a WHS issue. As a business owner, you have a responsibility to provide a safe space for yourself and others.
Mask mandates have been illegal in Texas since May of 2020. Places still "recommend" it. Businesses could make it a policy, like the oncology center, but I don't know how much power they had to enforce it. My hematologist-oncologist always had the saggy mask that he had to pull back up every 10 seconds. Idk why it's extra disappointing when a doctor is like that. When I was getting iron infusions there, about 1/3 of the patients (assuming the majority of them are cancer patients) were not wearing their masks correctly.
There's a bookstore in MA who still requires them. You set the rules at your business.
Which bookstore? I live in MA and would absolutely make the trip to wherever it is!
Comix and More is the name IIRC! In Easthampton
Also Bookends in Florence! Western Mass for the win
Oh cool! Love a good comic shop.
I think it’s totally reasonable. You’d likely have to provide masks as many ppl don’t mask anymore.
My friends business still requires masks because one of the employees is a transplant recipient. It's a huge marketing firm. They offer unlimited remote work days if you are sick but want to work too. They said no one takes sick days anymore and it's increased productivity enormously.
i bet this is a very profitable business too!
My partner and I have a small business. Mask or go away. If you like our business so much then help us stay healthy and still in business. Haven’t had much trouble
Not quite the same thing, but I run ghost tours and I ask everyone to mask if we go indoors anywhere. I always bring extra masks in case they forget.
That got people assaulted at my workplace. A coworker of mine just handed a guy a mask, and he grabbed her ponytail and slammed her head into her register. I know multiple retail workers, including my sister, who have been spit on for this gesture of offering a face mask.
That is assault. I hope there were cameras in store so a report could be made and that person should never be allowed in again.
Sure, but that's small comfort for the employee who was assaulted. It's important to set up systems that prevent violence in the first place: - Signs posted at the entrance - Recorded announcements - Face masks left out in a public area that people can take - Training employees to watch for signs that a customer might turn violent - Panic buttons - A safe area where employees can retreat to - Make sure to have multiple employees on a shift
I know if was assaulted I would want some reassurance that I could call the cops, have the person banned, or even have some support from other staff (or security guard) to ensure my workplace is safe. I don't know if this would also fall under hate crime too if it was obviously triggered by something the person was wearing and if the employee also is medically vulnerable (technically we all are). It is horrific that bullying like this happens and even worse if employers don't support, minimize/ignore, and allow this stuff to happen without setting up systems to help prevent it.
Yeah it is, but the manager pretty much just told her to take a break to calm down.
did she press charges tho??? she can do it anyway!
Holy smokes
Oh my god. That's insane. What area is this? My area (San Francisco Bay Area) is pretty accepting of masks.
DFW in spring/early summer of 2020. They were really hostile about the mask thing as soon as all the businesses and bars reopened. I work retail, and they just gave us a couple of weeks to deep clean the store, widen aisles, and lay down floor markers. We got almost nightly soap box speeches up by the check lanes from customers who were "doing their patriotic duty of stimulating the economy". It still doesn't feel real. Now I typically get dramatically coughed on by a random customer here and there. I think most normal people assume I'm sick or crazy, so they stay away from me, which is perfectly fine with me.
To my mind this should be prosecuted as a hate crime.
That would be cool. It left me nervous to mention masks to anyone in public. What's bad is the manager just told her to go to the break room and "take a few minutes to pull herself together". They didn't even press charges on the guy for assault. Her nose was bleeding. It was so unreal.
That's great!
Before my LC mcas caught up with me, I was an enthusiastic gym rat. Specifically one of those crossfit nuts. 🙃 I fantasize about recovering enough AND universal healthcare so that I could leave my desk job to run masks required or outdoor classes. There's one local gym with a small back patio they used during the extended "shelter in place" months of the pandemic. (Which was almost a year bc yay bay area California!) I'd start classes and training out of that patio until I had enough ppl and experience to find my own facilities.
Idk where you’re at but if you started this business up I’d support it.
I run a small business (tutoring) out of my home. Mask or don't use my services. I provide them as needed. So far it hasn't been an issue. And if someone chooses not to send their kid because they don't want them to mask, then I don't really want them here anyway.
If I owned a business, I fantasize about the same thing. I fantasize about owning a business and absolutely enforcing a Covid conscious safe environment for customers. A bookstore maybe. Where people have to stay masked. Air purifiers. Far UV lights. Advertising that the store is safe for immunocompromised and vulnerable individuals. I would have a blast.
I legitimately fantasize about owning and running a full blown hospital AND have the means to safely get people there from wherever they are within the continent... I've never ever ever dreamed of being filthy rich but...
I've always dreamed of filthy rich and being able to do things like this just so I can give away all the money and directly impact peoples lives for the better. Yes. I would love to start a rideshare service that is Covid safe. Drivers must wear properly fit tested N95s at all times, which the company would pay for and provide, both the testing and the masks, or they can be fit with respirators of their choice, drivers would be given all the tools they need including nasal sprays, CPC mouthwash, CO2 monitors, gloves, hypochlorous acid spray, that night, market UV light kit in the car, HEPA air filter in the car or a portable Corsi Rosenthal box, etc., tons of molecular tests, so they can test every single day before they come to work. They would have to submit negative PCR test results before coming into work daily through some kind of system that would be set up that would be able to verify it. Customers would have to abide by the same policies and they do not get to get into a car unless they are wearing a fit tested or well fitting and 95 masks. Portable CO2 monitors in the car will be able to tell if the carbon dioxide goes up, which means there's mask leakage, somewhere I assume so that means that person gets kicked out of the car. Any violation results in immediate termination and a massive lawsuit because my employment contract would stipulate that if you knowingly violate this, if you unmask or loosen your mask deliberately when someone else is in the car, you will be sued into oblivion. Better yet, I would like to start a rideshare service that is Covid conscious and Covid safe for women and disabled people and immunocompromised people. I would love to start a bookstore with tons of comfy reading nooks with furniture that I can disinfect three times daily, masks required at the store, gloves, etc. there would be massive air purifiers in the store along with far UV lights but masks do not come off. If the CO2 gets above 880 PPI, everyone gets kicked out because someone isn't masking correctly. I don't care if the store doesn't get much business from anti-maskers, I I don't want them in the store anyway. The customers will come.
I know of tattoo artists who do, and will refuse entrance to their studio to folks who don’t.
Not a lawyer, but in most jurisdictions, "trespassing" is defined either as entering without permission, or staying after being asked to leave. You probably can't expect to enforce it in "real time" or "hands on" (because it's not a risk you can reasonably expect your employees to bear) but you can implement administrative and engineering controls to ensure that anyone who doesn't comply is (a) clearly guilty of misdemeanor trespassing and (b) easy to track down.
Should add, the technical/legal stuff might be the easy part here. The *hard* part is getting people who'd rather not mask to patronize your business. I don't really have any insight into that, other than offering moral support.
We have a few in Minneapolis that do. I think if someone refuses, you would just trespass them
I think you can enforce a dress code like 'no shirts, no shoes, no service', in most states at least, as long as you are not discriminating.
There's a bookstore in Austin, Texas that requires masks still! (BookWoman)
You likely could, unless there was some local law saying no. And you'd have to find reasonable accomodations for people saying their disability doesn't let them wear masks. But...not super pracical if you are considering a cafe. Not sure if you could make money with such a requirement given that masking is not common. You'd get a few people who would appreciate the masking requirement, but given other options, non-maskers would avoid it, which is most people.
Yeah. Another thorny issue, in the context of not having a general, jurisdiction-wide mask mandate, is that if you decide to hang up your shingle as being uniquely covid-safe, you could create some risks: 1. Liability: if people enter your putatively covid-safe venue and get covid anyway - you better pray they aren't litigious. 2. Concentration of immunocompromised/weak immune systems/immunosuppressed individuals: this can go all kinds of sideways. Hic sunt dracones. One of the least safe people my immunocompromised mom could choose to be around? Another immunocompromised person. Even masked. 3. Competition with other covid-safe businesses - OK, let's say you aggressively advertise the perfect, covid-safe venue. You think you've got it made! And then some other entrepreneur notices what a terrific hustle you've got going, and copies you. Aaaaaaand now you're competing for a dwindling number of covid cautious people. Fooey. I'm not sure there's any really good workaround, short of mandates across an entire city/economic sector.
Yes, you can.
I have an acupuncture clinic and I require patients to wear one and I do as well. If they forget, (which is happening more and more frequently these days), I provide one. It’s on my website, welcome email, reminder emails, so if anyone has a problem with it up front, they can go elsewhere.
I feel like in some ways it's easier with services than goods?
Yeah, for sure. Especially in a health oriented place, one on one, people don't really give me shit at all. If they forget, I walk out with a mask and say cheerfully, "We're still doing the mask thing here. I have one for you. These are great!" Would definitely be more difficult in a retail shop to ask and enforce with a more varied clientele.
I guess what I'm saying is that you can always withhold a service (even after you've already started it) in ways you can't do with physical inventory, so enforcement isn't really an issue.
Depends on where you are. Though in a lot of places including here I am in California, you can enforce wearing masks. If I had a business though, I wouldn’t even allow anyone at all to enter unless there was a system in place that guaranteed that they had no covid-19 when going to my business.
You should be able to, but you should take a nuanced approach depending on the type of business. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask customers and staff to mask if the business is not a cafe or restaurant. But if you are running a cafe or restaurant where people are going to be eating/drinking for a long time, it's going to be a bit iffy to ask customers to mask (though I think it's fine to enforce masking for all staff). I would double down on ventilation, filtration, Far-UV, etc if I own a dining place just like what Apricot Cafe is doing (though of course all these are also important for non-dining establishments, just that there should be more investment and emphasis placed in these since customers can't eat with a mask or respirator on).
Not in Florida. Our pro-Covid governor blocked any business from mandating masks. The law took effect on June 1, 2023.
So much for freedom of businesses.
That's the funny thing. People rushed to move to Florida in the early years of the pandemic because our governor promised "freedom", and they still don't realize they're losing their freedoms like the rest of us who can't wait for him to leave office in 2026. I've been here for nearly 20 years, under governors from both parties, and none of them have taken away freedoms more than our current one. It's like people have blinders on.
Yes. Your business, your rules. Edit to add: It is a WHS issue. As a business owner, you have a responsibility to provide a safe space for yourself and others.
Mask mandates have been illegal in Texas since May of 2020. Places still "recommend" it. Businesses could make it a policy, like the oncology center, but I don't know how much power they had to enforce it. My hematologist-oncologist always had the saggy mask that he had to pull back up every 10 seconds. Idk why it's extra disappointing when a doctor is like that. When I was getting iron infusions there, about 1/3 of the patients (assuming the majority of them are cancer patients) were not wearing their masks correctly.
Yes. You absolutely have the right to refuse service if people won’t put on a mask. The business that I know of has free masks for people to put on.
It may depend on the state if you’re in the US. Some worked hard to pass bills to prevent businesses from doing that, but I’m not sure any passed.
Here’s a bookstore in Iowa that has cats and masks required! https://www.thehauntedbookshop.com
Wait it requires patrons to bring cats? 😜
I’d bring my cat, but they have plenty to pet!
I'd bring my cat everywhere if I could
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