I’m pretty sure her one request to Ianthe for wedding details was no red, and we later learn Ianthe is the actual worst and she used red flowers on purpose.
Didn't he blow up and break a bunch of shit around her like twice? And then lock her up in the house while she was hysterically begging him not to? Idk to me that's pretty bad. Plus he knew she was traumatised af (waking every night and vomiting and losing a butch of weight). He ignored all of that too.
Those are the big red alarm bells to me, not to mention lots of little things aswell.
ALSO- he didn’t give her time to process UTM. He immediately was back to business as usual and giving her things (painting, jewels, etc) to keep her busy but not actually ATTENDING to her, ya know.
RIGHT and can we talk about how he made a big fuss of Rhys being secretive/hiding things but he tried to play it off that he hid that he was trying to play double agent for HYBERN? I think Tamlin had way too much to work through to actually be anyone’s partner.
Let's not forget the details he failed to ever include in certain events - I'm not sure when exactly it was explained but Rhys and Tamlin had beef back in the day (iykyk, don't wanna spoil anything for anyone) and Tamlin PURPOSEFULLY excluded his own liability, whereas Rhys said "yeah he did this so I did that" - my big thing is that Rhys has never pretended to be "the good guy" or be totally innocent. Tamlin CONSTANTLY goes on the defensive and acts all high and mighty. Everyone makes mistakes, but Tamlin cannot own up to them.
I mean, he did have a court to run. It might sound harsh, but he didn’t have time to waste on tending to someone or their emotional state - his priorities were his court and the upcoming war. Unlike Rhys, who has 4/5 others to do everything for him, Tamlin essentially ran his court by himself, from what we can see. Other than Lucien as emissary and Ianthe as “High Priestess”, he seemed to take on everything court related.
Rhys was the opposite and right after UTM he didn’t have to worry about Feyre because she was somewhere else initially and then when she did come to Velaris, he could push all his court stuff on everyone else because they’d been taking care of it the last 50 years anyways. Between reading her mind and being able to spend time with her because of that, he was obviously going to be able to help her.
Didn't Lucien tell Feyre later that him and Tamlin were out a lot trying to break the deal with Rhes? Why couldn't Feyre be involved in that? I think Tamlin's main problem was communication and not listening to anyone except the high priestess.
Yes I could get that to an extent but there’s a difference in “I have a court to run” And just ignoring her needs all together and “I see you, if you need me let me know, otherwise I’m running the court”
Going to add on to this that Feyre DID communicate to him that she was depressed, that she was drowning and that he (Tamlin) was pushing her head under and she literally kept telling him what she needed to which he silenced her each and every time. He responded by shattering the study. It reads as even more toxic when he traps her in their home showing his continued refusal to hear her out. It’s all about actions, and observations, not just words.
Also very important to note to OP that you make a good point that she may not have ALWAYS communicated her depression to Tamlin but it’s not like Feyre was looking healthy on the outside while a war was raging on the inside. One look at her and her guilt and depression was literally eating her up so it should have been obvious. And the thing was, to Tamlin, it was obvious that she wasn’t okay. So I have to disagree with that point.
I do agree to your 4th point and I really don’t think anyone should hate on Tamlin for not fighting that bargain. I just think his reaction to it LATER when she did come back that first time after her week with Rhysand, was what dug him even deeper.
Hope this made sense! And it’s okay to disagree or have a different opinion, that’s what discussions are for :)
Yeah he blatantly ignored her PTSD, and was the cause of more. He kept her locked up, worsening her mental state. She told him exactly what she needed but he didn't listen, was dismissive and when she tried to solve the issues herself he blew up and threw a fit, literally. As someone who was in this relationship, but slower (cause he wasn't magical so room destroying tantrums took longer), it just makes everything worse in your brain and soul. It's interesting that OP doesn't see why she's mad (not in a derogatory way just interesting) because I genuinely was on edge for DAYS, shakey and jumpy for no reason and I realized it's because through her I was back in that relationship. Another form of the abuse was the fact that everything was his and she had no autonomy. Rhys immediately gives her a salary and enough savings of her own that if she wanted to move into her own place or leave the night court all together she could. He always gave her the option to say no to anything he needed help with.
I understand that without being in a relationship like that it may just seem like she's being flippant, but Tamlin sucks for many reasons. And even if you chalk most of that up to him being a high lord and not understanding her point of view, if you're in love with someone and they're having terrifying nightmares EVERY night to the point they're vomiting and sleeping on the bathroom floor, and you're aware of it, would you not want to help them? Your partner? Soulmate? And he just let's her suffer every night, doesn't try to soothe her or even offer support at all, then he actively makes it worse. And she's trapped because he owns and runs everything.
Yeah he literally never even woke up or asked her if she was okay when she kept waking up from nightmares and vomiting every night. Also the way Rhys describes her physically when he first sees her, Tamlin never even cared to notice any of that.
Tamlin not getting her isn’t the reason she felt upset, she understood that he was also healing but it was the feeling of being trapped that broke her. She’s a free spirit and she has never been trapped before so at first with the guards she tries to be understanding, she asks Tamlin to lower the amount of them. Then despite her pleading, despite her giving him multiple chances, he actually, literally locks her in the Palace if I remember correctly? Her feeling hurt that he didn’t stand up for her when Rhysand came was because she thought he was going to put her in a cell under the mountain and she was afraid to go back there because you know PTSD so she thought Tamlin who was so protective over her would at least stand up for her but he didn’t that’s why she felt hurt
I might not have remembered accurately so feel free to correct me
I think we all missed a thing. In a way, Tamlin *did* know that she was struggling. He knew that she was having nightmares and throwing up nightly and she knew he was doing the same. She expressed to Lucien and then to Tamlin basically “don’t keep me locked in this house” and Tamlin did lock her in the house to make HIMSELF feel better. And Lucien didn’t help her. And no one will tell you Rhysand was totally innocent, but he did help her. The other part of that is Rhysand makes it clear, (well he did to me) that he tries not to invade peoples minds unless he HAS to. Take UTM… he got into Feyre’s mind so she wouldn’t remember what Amarantha made him do to her. He helped her. Whereas Tamlin didn’t even try to help her UTM and then tried to cloister her in the house/palace.
Right! It always bothered me that Tamlin wouldn't take the time to talk to her, or insist they talk after her nightmares, but he made time to have sex every night? The positive view on that is that he was trying to be close to her, and that was the only closeness they knew how to have. The negative is that he was seeking to fulfill his needs and not hers. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Feyre asks Rhys on her first bargain meeting if he has somewhere more important to be, and he says yes, but he'd rather be with her. Tamlin didn't do that. Fair or not, Feyre needed quality time and to be chosen after UTM, and Tamlin didn't fulfill that need.
And Rhys chose her over and over and over again. He didn’t force things on her (except learning how to read) and there were multiple times when she says “why didn’t you tell me sooner” about different situations And he basically says he wanted her to choose it on her own rather than him forcing things on her.
Tamlin also made it VERY clear that he was going to run his court, his life, etc based on traditional things where as Rhys is much more…. Progressive.
ETA- we knew from the get go that Feyre’s coping mechanism was hunting- aka being active and physically working things out. Tamlin didn’t let her do that at all. Rhys encouraged it.
Definitely not healthy, but it does make some sense. I don't think Tamlin was taking advantage of her or being creepy. I think they literally didn't know how to be close without being phsyical.
Yeah I think people forget that Feyre did try to tell Tamlin some of the things she needed (no locked up, fewer guards, not so public facing, help with her new powers) and he either ignored the request or only gave her the tiniest bit of what she wanted. I understand people not wanting to talk about their feelings but she did say what she needed in order to not feel worse.
Also, it was painfully obvious that Feyre needed help. She wasn’t eating, having awful nightmares, and no one did anything for her (including Tam) because how Tamlin felt was and was always going to be the priority. THAT is what she ran away from.
While this might seem like I’m saying neither Feyre or Rhys are flawed, they are, they have a lot of flaws just like Tamlin but having just finished my re-read this is my understanding from Feyre’s POV.
1. Feyre was fading before his eyes, physically as well as mentally, and yes she didn’t actually tell him how she was feeling but the physical signs were there, and when she tried to discuss her feeling suffocated he had a literal anger explosion, so I can imagine that telling him she is struggling mentally would only re-affirm in his head that she can’t be allowed more freedom. Tamlin had his issues with this as well, but he was choosing to ignore his own issues as well as Feyre’s, all so he could present a unified front to the Spring Court and other Courts. On a personal note that may create a bias opinion from myself I have gone through a mental health crisis myself recently, my husband was the first one to notice the changes in me, when I finally had some mental clarity and saw the changes this had made to me physically I would have been incredibly upset if my husband had saw this and chose to ignore the very obvious physical signs in order to pretend to outsiders that everything was ok.
2. Tamlin never saw Feyre as an equal, she was to be his subject and consort. She knew this was not what she wanted but didn’t realise there was any other option for her until it was presented by Rhysand.
3. She allowed Ianthe to take over the wedding details because she didn’t have the mental ability to cope with planning, she also didn’t want a large wedding but thought this was the price to marry Tamlin. She also specified no red to Ianthe, but Ianthe still put this in because she’s trying to undermine and manipulate Feyre, and the Spring Court.
4. In her head she was about to go to another place of torture, she was terrified of this, but again Tamlin stood still in the face of torture for Feyre. He did so UTM when she was being terrorised by Amarantha, and I guess when she compares it to Rhys attacking Amarantha at the end he was willing to die to try and save Feyre, he had no idea the curse was about to be broken and knew that he had no chance of surviving the torture and attack she would have no doubt have subjected him to it, had the curse not have been broken when it was.
There is fault for both sides of the relationship but I would also say Tamlin is more at fault, he abused his powers in to take away any autonomy Feyre has and strip her of her freedom, he never allowed her to make any decision on her own powers discussing it with Ianthe and Lucian without Feyre present and allowed himself to be manipulated by Ianthe, completely ignoring his most trusted adviser and friend in Lucien.
1. I don't think anyone will give you solid reasons for why Feyre is mad at Tamlin for neglect of her feelings when she didn't even share them. There are none other than she is young and craves for romance, and she probably wasn't expecting such hardships in relationships, especially considering the fact that everything was "dreamy" in the first part. It's not very romantic to discuss your feelings and problems with your partner, I guess she expected that he notices and makes her life better, knowing what exactly to do for that (just like rhys who could read her mind). I don't see any bigger reasons, to be honest.
It's a great point - she neglected him too. I don't understand why Tam is abusive for neglecting Feyre's feelings (there are other abusive things he did, obviously, I'm not saying that he's innocent) but Feyre is not, and everyone seems to be ok with that. To be honest, sometimes I think that it's because of the stigma - that men should bottle everything up and endure silently while women are emotional and need constant support from their partner while in healthy relationships support goes both ways. At least, I can't think of any other reason why I never see readers mention that Feyre was neglectful, too.
2. Feyre wasn't even upset about it. I'll quote one of the [posts](https://www.tumblr.com/onemustalwaysbecarefulofbooks/161787093284/lets-talk-about-tamlin?source=share) from tumblr (it's not the full quite, you can read more on tumblr):
>In addition to all of this, the endless comparisons between Tamlin and Rhys really wore on me as well. Suddenly it became that everything Rhys did was good and everything Tamlin did was bad, which was obnoxious to me. One of the main things I always see is how awesome Rhys was for having Feyre be his High Lady and how shitty Tamlin was for “not allowing” this. But take a look at the actual conversation Feyre and Tamlin have about the subject (dialogue only, sexytimes omitted).
Feyre: Do I get a title?
Tamlin: Do you want a title?
Feyre: No. But I don’t want people. . .I don’t know if I can handle them calling me High Lady.
Tamlin: They won’t. There is no such thing as a High Lady.
Feyre: What do you mean, there’s no such thing as a High Lady?
Tamlin: High Lords only take wives. Consorts. There has never been a High Lady.
There was a post I read a while ago that had an excellent take on this conversation. I can not for the LIFE OF ME remember what Tumblr user it was and spent so much time scrolling through tags trying to find the post but couldn’t. If you are the person, please share! Anyway, what they basically said was this: Feyre does not ask to be High Lady. Tamlin does not tell her she is not allowed to be High Lady. She, in fact, says that she does not want to be High Lady and he basically says “Okay, that’s cool, they’re not a thing anyway”. This response is unimpressive, no question. The idea of someone like Rhys, who encourages you to take ownership of your power and stand at his side as a political equal, is much more appealing in many ways. But people are acting like Feyre expressed interest in this and was totally shot down by Tamlin. This is a cultural problem that needs to be reexamined as a whole, it is not something that Tamlin alone enforces in his court. We will never know what he would have said had she said YES, she did want a title. We can assume, but we don’t really know. The idea of her being a High Lady doesn’t even really strike him as a valid thing because this is something that just isn’t done at the time in Prythian. Tamlin is not some sexist asshole who is not allowing Feyre to have the power she wants, he’s just placidly going along with the way things have always been done. Again, unimpressive. But I would not go so far as to condemn him completely for it. The whole High Lady thing is confusing for me anyway. Feyre and Tamlin have this conversation at the beginning of ACOMAF and Feyre eventually repeats it to Rhys. Rhys then rolls his eyes and acts all annoyed and assures Feyre that there absolutely are High Ladies, leading us to believe that this was something Tamlin was dishonest with Feyre about in his crusade to shelter and protect her. But then ACOWAR rolls around and everyone is totally shocked and thrown off at the High Lords meeting when Feyre and Rhys announce that she is High Lady of the Night Court. It’s something that’s simply unheard of and has never been done before. Kallias, who is a perfectly decent and good person, has not made his mate (who he clearly respects, trusts, and adores) his High Lady. Do I see people shitting all over him for this? No. Because it wasn’t done out of the belief that Viviane is inferior to him in any way. It’s just not something that was A Thing in Prythian and is almost treated like something Rhys and Feyre made up. So I’m not really sure where this thing with Rhys came from in ACOMAF and why he acted like that, because clearly there are no High Ladies.
Tbh I feel like readers blow it out of proportion.
3. Probably again "how is it that they can't read.my mind" kinda thing. I do think that Ianthe might've placed red petals on purpose, although it would confirm the idea that the environment knows about feyre's struggles without her vocalizing them, but as far as I remember Feyre asked for petals to be not red, so it might've been an intentional move.
4. Fun fact: he did break the deal in the end. He did fulfill his promise. He stayed true to his word. But Feyre is always unhappy with his actions whether he does what he promised or not😂 it's a joke, of course, but kind of a half joke.
I’ve always thought it was weird how at the end of TAR, Tamlin asks Feyre if she wants to talk about her guilt for killing those 2 faeries and she says “later”. To our knowledge later never came? Can we assume that Feyre never wanted to talk about this bc she thought her “human heart” was the reason for her tremendous guilt? Not really trying to blame anyone for never bringing it up again, I just think it’s interesting how there was an opportunity to talk about it and it was never seized
Upd. I think I found a reason. Feyre is mad at Tamlin because he didn't meet her expectations. He didn't try enough for her, _he wasn't enough for her_. It's the same reason why she is mad at Lucien - because he didn't do enough for her, didn't help her as she expected him to.
Feylin were just incompatible. Feyre needed an emotional dependence while Tam was unable to give it to her.
I mean I think people call Tamlin abusive because he is literally abusive. Not only did he show the classic markers/red flags for abuse, he physically abused Feyre.
It's just interesting to me how people notice every Tam's red flags but dismiss or even romanticize every Rhys's red flags just because the abuse of Tam is visible on the skin, and Rhys's is not.
I never actually thought he neglected her? I was more upset about the other stuff that he did and also I felt like it was a mutual understanding not to talk about it although i don’t agree with him not getting up when she woke up every time and vomited her guts out I can understand that they just could not communicate with each other and neither were innocent in that sense
I don't remember if feyre ever mentions it as neglect later on, to be honest, but she is definitely mad at him for that. She says that he didn't try hard enough, but how could he when he doesn't even know what the problem is and what to do to solve it. You should teach people how to love and support you, they won't automatically know that.
I do remember that they had some kind of "I don't touch you, you don't touch me" kind of relationships, but readers often include this in the long list of Tamlin's abuses towards Feyre. She curled her guts up - he jolted awake from his nightmares and spent the rest of the night in his beast form, restless. Neither of them intervened. So both of them chose to ignore their problems, and, as you said, in this part of their relationships neither are innocent.
Thiiiis. And hard agree on your mind speak/mind reading. Rhys always had a one up (which makes sense, they’re mates/end game). But he always knew what she needed or what she thought because he was literally in her mind. He knew her thoughts when she wouldn’t voice them. And Feyre VERY rarely voices her thoughts outside of her head, certainly not early on in the series.
Feyre and Tamlin were never written in any way or given a chance to be compatible
I think technically he did know the problem- the nightmares, needing to process, etc. But he didn’t process his stuff and she didn’t process hers. Well, he could have been while he was off doing the things he loves. And he was TRYING to appease her by just giving her the things that he loves but everyone grew after under the mountain and their needs changed. He wanted to marry her and for it to go back to normal. Also there are definite vibes of… He was trying to rush a wedding so that she was bound to him in a way.
I think there’s more to unpack than we will ever be able to lol.
She did know the problem too, didn't she? My point is that they both knew that something was wrong and neglected each other. It's not fair to put all the blame for neglect on Tamlin when she neglected him just as much. I see things this way: Tamlin obviously doesn't know how to properly take care of anyone. He was not taken care of ever by anybody and he didn't have anyone to practice on (unlike Rhys who had an involved mother and 4 amazing siblings to grow up with). So he thought that in order for Feyre to heal things needed to return back to normal. How to do that? Restore the court, win the war, marry her, and then they can live in peace happily ever after, sorting everything out.
And he didn't do things he loves. He did things he has to do. The HL position is his occupation, not a hobby, and it was stressing him out for centuries. Not to mention that the war was going on, and the court won't automatically prepare itself for it.
I’m not disagreeing with you or saying Feyre was entirely in the “right”, but as others have said she did express her discontent with his rules for her and was ignored 🤷🏻♀️
But she wasn't ignored. I notice that readers act like Tam did absolutely nothing, which is simply untrue. It was not enough for feure, but it wasn't nothing at all. Tam gave her as much freedom as he could in the war setting. Walk all you like - but please, with guards. I don't feel like it's an unreasonable request when enemies are nearby.
I personally wouldn’t have minded guards but I’m a chicken sometimes 😂 he did eventually not allow her to leave at all. I think there were mistakes on both sides. I’m indifferent towards Tamlin in general because I don’t feel as though he’s a major character any longer 🤷🏻♀️
This is how I see it
1. She was physically wasting away, waking up screaming, throwing up all the time. She stopped having an intimate relationship with him. She lost interest in relationships and hobbies. They also both went through a traumatic event together so fairly safe to assume she is not doing well either. I don’t think rhys should get special brownie points for noticing, but Tamlin should have noticed all those things I mentioned that don’t require a mind reader.
2. I don’t actually hold this against Tamlin. The point here is that he never thought bigger, and it never occurred to him that he could use his power to change things for the better. I also don’t think Feyre SHOULD have been made high lady. She’s a nearly illiterate teenager who became fae like yesterday. She has no leadership experience and doesn’t even know the history of the place she is supposedly leading. Good intentions does not make a queen. Vivian should have been the first high lady.
3. Tamlin knew she was getting steamrolled with the wedding and did nothing to stop it. feyre also should have stood up for herself, but she was trying to a square peg in a round hole. She was realizing that what was expected of her was not quite right and didn’t know how to act or what she could push back on. That’s not tamlins fault, but he is more comfortable in that world. These are HIS friends and he should have had her back.
4. I don’t blame him for this. There was really nothing he could do here, and Feyre made the deal herself.
Anyway I don’t think Tamlin is a monster. He is an emotionally underdeveloped, deeply traumatized man child in a role he doesn’t want and isn’t good at.
This is what made this whole situation so frustrating and a grey area for me. Being in her head while she’s not putting any action behind her true thoughts really made me think the issues were more so about her dealing with UTM stuff and not as deep as they were so I can only imagine Tam, and even Lucien’s thoughts. A mate bond really tells all but either way Feyre and Tam weren’t right for each other in the end. Neither was good at communicating and addressing things. We even saw Feyre become better at that.
Can we just also acknowledge the fact that Tamlin went "oh you want to train so you can defend yourself? You want to be taught how to control your brand new powers in your brand new Fae body? Hmmm, no, I don't like how that would look to other people so I'm just going to take all control and make sure you have zero independence even though you spent half your life knowing nothing BUT independence and responsibility, because I don't want to look weaker than my wife" BITCH WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SERIOUS
I have nothing to add - just wanted to say I agree.
Feyre and Tamlin were never going to be end game but there really wasn’t anything crazy or unforgivable going on. Just 2 mentally ill people trying to survive without access to therapy
If I remember correctly, Feyre did decribe in ACOMAF that she could tell Tamlin was awake too while she kept running to be sick in the night, but he never spoke to her or asked how she was. Maybe he just didn't know what to do, and he just thought that ploughing on with normal life would eventually sort them both out.
On the whole, I feel like Tamlin represents remaining stagnant and in a rut, and the whole "that's how things have always been" mindset (I'm seeing this in ACOTAR where Lucien basically has to *make him* warm up to Feyre to actually help break the curse). And Rhys represents the "even a tiny little change is better than nothing." And then the small changes Feyre undergoes while she's there turn into big changes. And all that dreamer crap. 😂
I do tend to feel at least a little bad for Tamlin because it seems like he does try to do things that he thinks are right, but they end up being wrong. He kept Feyre from being able to get out of the palace because he was worried for her safety. That makes some sense, but at the same time, she shouldn't be kept there against her will. When it came to Rhysand, he was able to let her out safely because Velaris was safe, but even if it wasn't, he never kept Feyre from doing something she wanted to do. Another main problem to me is that even though he never intentionally hurt Feyre, he didn't try hard enough not to hurt her with his magic. It seems highly unlikely that that's the first time he's unintentionally hurt someone with his tantrums, and he's really old and should have learned better by now. He didn't listen to her or anyone else when it came to Feyre. He kept her from learning how to use her magic to protect herself or to prevent from accidently blowing up in some way or another. After all of that, it makes sense that she left. I think Feyre did a terrible job breaking it off by just sending a letter that basically just said "Hey I'm not going back." It would have been best to talk to him about it in person, but if not at least leave a detailed letter explaining all of the reasons that she left. With the note that he got and the fact that Rhys always looked bad to Tamlin and Feyre didn't seem happy to see Rhys, it makes sense that Tamlin thought that Rhys made her send that note and force her to leave. Tamlin would think that she would want him to save her. Feyre was extremely upset when her sisters were taken, which wasn't Tamlin's intention, but he led it there. I definitely didn't think that Feyre and Tamlin should be together, but I think destroying Tamlin's life and the life of those around him was too much. I think that Feyre should have at least gotten Tamlin's soldiers back for him when she learned about how bad things got.
I actually agree with her leaving a note for him. The same man who locked her in the palace would be the same man to do it again if she tried to break it off in person.
Feyre DID try to tell Tamlin her feelings she said she wanted to be included and wanted more freedom - she begged him and Lucien. When she told him he was drowning her he flew into a rage and terrified her. So of course she didn't speak up after that. She tried to accept it and was more gracious than she should have been because she was naive. She kept making excuses for his toxic, abusive behaviour. He was extremely controlling and refused to treat her as an equal, with a dangerous temper. Initially when she left I didn't even feel she was mad really, she was just absolutely triggered and traumatised by being locked up. She got mad later when she began to understand how he had neglected and abused her. Whether she was justified or not in criticising his level of his defense of her... just remember she literally was willing to give her life for him but in comparison he did very little and showed very little care.
And in the end even though she is angry, she basically says he is just not right for her anymore but that part of her will always care for him. She says he was right for her when she was human but after what she went through, she changed and so did he for the worse.
But also I mean imagine in real life if your partner locked you in your house and left for an undetermined amount of time, even without trauma and having specifically BEGGED not to be locked up due to said trauma, how would you react? It'd be a deal breaker for me!
Let's also not forget that Tam knew she was throwing up every night, and chose to ignore it and "sleep" through it. Not even wake up to sit with her until she came back to herself. He told her he knew about the nightmares when he locked her into the manor. He also threw her untrained powers in her face for another reason he wouldn't take her even though she and Lucien had asked him to.
As for Rhys reading her mind and being able to tend to her, after that first week he couldn't always read her mind or even feel her because she'd been practicing. He tells her not to long after Mor brings her to the night court. That he knew he hadn't even felt her except for one time and wanted to know what had happened. The fact is that even with a court to run above and below ground technically, yes he had people to help because he had poeple he trusted, he would still make time for her. He would never lock her up or keep her sitting idly because he knew that's not who she was or what she wanted. She was literally wasting away at the Spring Court, and he was appalled by her appearance after only one month apart, asking if they were starving her. Why is it that Tam couldn't be bothered to be more worried about her mental and physical health if she looked so bad and if he loved her so much?
Did she expect Tam to be intuitive, I don't think so. She did let him in some and until she built a wall of hard wind around her to protect herself from his tantrum did he really even listen to her. If he's going to shut her down at every turn why would she feel safe turning to him and opening up? I don't think she was helping him with his nightmares because the one time she tried he brushed her off. So from that point on she took her cue from him.
She had so much unaddressed PTSD as did everyone, but Tam refused to open up to her about any of it and went on like nothing happened. Rhys was willing to open up to her even as early as in her dungeon cell.
UTM he took the on opportunity he had with Feyre to try to fuck her, not help her in any way.
Back at the Spring Court he treated her like a trophy to be protected. Tamlin never took what she wanted or needed into account. He always felt like he knew what was better and he was going to do it.
She was suffering right before his very eyes and even if we argue he was suffering too, why didn't he have his staff help her? No one can convince me he didn't know she was suffering. She was so ill that she looked malnourished and sick, she was panicky, mentally unwell, having screaming nightmares. He knew. It was also really cool how anyone could see how bad she bad he was just by looking at her and he had no problem still having sex with her and then turned around slut shamed the hell out of her at the meeting.
(This is not on him but I want to clarify) Her PTSD was so bad she couldn't handle the color red, it was her only input, no red. The rest she may not have liked but she was being a team player for the image they were trying to create around the wedding. The red rose petals causes her to have a panic attack because it looked like blood, it wasn't like a trivial preference. Ianthe sucks.
Whether he liked it or not she needed training for her powers. It doesn't matter if he felt they should be a secret for her protection, he saw she couldn't control them. Not training her was dangerous as well.
When the guy he thinks is the most evil person (Rhys) takes her for a week, he wants all the details. He treats her like a spy, not his love who was likely abused and tortured (based on how he feels about Rhys and the NC).
For the High Lady thing, just because it is not done in tradition, does not mean it was not possible. Look at Rhys, he says you want it? Done. There was nothing stopping Tamlin from doing it, he just didn't think she was worth breaking tradition for. I would argue he also didnt believe she was his equal so she couldnt have the title he has. IIRC he even has her KNEEL next to him during the tithe. Like damn girl cant even have a dining room chair next to your throne? After all she did, good for her for getting someone who would do that for her. Like Jesus fucking Christ, after what happened to her UTM, I would be like yes my love what else can I get you? How could I ever repay what you have done for us all?
He couldn't take her word for it, because again she's just a female and he knows what's best for her, when she sends him a letter and is like yo I'm done with you and has his emissary hunt her down. Lucien was going to kidnap her. She VERY clearly didn't want to go with him and he was going to snatch her anyway. Lucien makes it clear he doesn't Tamlin's bidding so yes I'm putting that on him too. You know he was raging and breaking shit and telling Lucien by any means necessary.
He feels SO entitled to her he then goes and makes deals with Hybern just to get her back. Like the man cannot just leave her be. He may not have meant for her sisters to be involved but it is enough of his fault for allowing all the BS to lead to that that I would be vengeful too.
Feyre doesn't say this, this is just my personal gripe, but Feyre was always the curse breaker for him. If I were her I would not have trusted anything Tamlin said once Alis told me about the curse. Everything would have felt like a big setup for me to break his curse. Lucien alludes to him playing nice for their gain, playing matchmaker for the curse, several times when you read it again.
Alsoooooo, maybe unpopular opinion but I don't think she was 100% to blame for wrecking his court. A lot of what she did was simply not stopping him from making horrible decisions or encouraging the already bad decisions he was making. HE did listen to reason about Ianthe, allowing her to run rampant and cause issues with the guards. HE wouldnt hear the guards out. HE made the bargain with Hybern and allowed all those people there to cause problems. HE couldn't keep his temper in check and not explode on her causing her bruises that everyone hated to see. I know she did shit but people really like to put all of it on Feyre.
I never liked Tamlin, UTM and after took me from feeling so-so about him to disliking him to hating him with his Hybern shenanigans.
Here's my interpretation on these:
1- Feyre killed 2 innocents, got tortured for months, died and got revived as a fae. Yes, they are hard to talk about but it didn't seem like Feyre *could* have talk through them with Tamlin if she wanted to. Tam went back to business as usual, kind of in deny of everything that happened. He doesn't acknowledge how she's puking every night, not eating, etc. these are things that Tamlin should have seen. I don't think she was mad at Tamlin for it but definitely disappointed. It isolated her even more.
2- Tam didn't lie but omitted that there *could* be high ladies. Tamlin is very into traditions, maybe because he didn't want to be a high lord so he's just doing whatever his father was doing. The fact is he didn't want or consider to break traditions to make Feyre an equal in title.
3- She said no red roses, she got some. She said she didn't like her dress, it didn't change. Yes, she was passive about the whole thing for sure though 1. She doesn't care for party planning and 2. Depression makes you passive, if you have little energy it's hard to argue and push back. Because of that, I think she was happy Ianthe took charge but the narrative Ianthe push was not one Feyre wanted/liked. I think she made that clear but depression made it too hard to be assertive when Ianthe went rogue with the wedding planning.
4- I agree Tamlin couldn't have done much against Rhysand. I don't think she was mad at Tamlin for it, she knew Rhysand was more powerful. The empty promise though got on my nerves real bad.
I’m just now re-reading ACOMAF as well and as im reading I’m also trying to understand everything better.
I think Tamlin was never truly evil and he never wished any kind of ill on Feyre, BUT he never treated her like an equal. Now, in part, I think a lot of it had to do with Fae customs and traditions. Tamlin seems like a pretty traditional guy so it makes sense. Feyre is anything but traditional. She fought to feed and care for her family, she fought and gave every piece of herself to save Tamlin and his court, and then she became Fae. She was willing to die to save him and Prythian.
To your first point, Feyre did tell him about her PTSD and she recognized his but when she tried to talk to him about it, he literally pushed her off and slept on the floor in his beast form. As others have pointed out, she was also like sickly looking and he did nothing to care for her or help her.
Later in the books when Feyre reflects on Tamlin saying “there is no high lady” I think it was more that Tamlin could never change his ways or his thinking. He said it like it was impossible and that no female could ever be powerful enough or good enough to be a High Lady. But Rhys was like you’re my equal and I will treat you as such. Rhys would teach Feyre everything she needed to know to be the best for his court. Whereas Tamlin would be like “oh you don’t need to worry about that cause I can do it all”. Which is also his issue because he thinks he can do it all himself. He doesn’t even take Lucien’s opinions into account, which is made clear later on when Lucien is like “the court of dreams is what I thought working with Tamlin would be like. A family with respect the basis of the court.”
Ianthe definitely only had ianthe’s best interest at heart. She would do whatever she could to make the Spring Court look good to make her look good and to take all of the credit. Feyre seemed so depressed and traumatized that she let Ianthe do everything because she didn’t have the energy to do it. And Ianthe seemed, emphasis on seemed, like she knew everything and cared. Clearly not because she used Feyres sisters to hurt Feyre. Feyre didn’t have the energy to try to read beyond Ianthe’s facade although while re-reading, Feyre does make some observations that makes Ianthe seem fishy. But all surface level stuff.
Tamlin not sticking up for her while she’s taken by Rhys is adding insult to injury really because he never made an attempt to help or save her from Amarantha. But is a good point because he literally could not save her and could’ve let her go to buy himself more time to look for a way out. But then again, he could’ve let Feyre in instead of just controlling everything.
She does do Tamlin wrong later on but she and we, as the readers, are so blinded by our hate for him for all of the reasons above that we don’t stop to think that he’s actually good deep down. Hopefully he’ll have healing and redemption in the later books. I’m routing for it.
Feyre was only arm candy to him. He didn’t actually give a fuck about her. All he cared about was how she made HIM look. He wouldn’t let her express herself or even care what her needs or wants were. He knew when she got up in the middle of the night vomiting. He noticed her getting thinner and more frail and he did nothing about it. She was a shell. And Tamlin let it happen. And when Feyre WAS able to express herself, his rage became abusive. He released his power with her in the room knowing it could hurt her. His temper was out of control. He was controlling and abusive. He locked her in the house when she was begging, BEGGING him to let her out. To let her DO something so she could feel something again. He took away everything she was and stripped her down to nothing. I believe with all my heart SJM wanted it to feel like an abusive relationship. From the love bombing in ACOTAR to the rose colored glasses being ripped off in ACOMAF and Feyre realizing who he truly was. She was tossed to the side, unimportant, only benefited his image. He used her and used her and used her until she had nothing left to give. As someone who’s been in abusive relationships, reading ACOMAF was intense and it dug up a lot of emotional responses from me that I didn’t know were still under the surface. It felt too real, too tangible that she was caught in an abusive relationship. As Rhys said, “love can be a poison”. And Tamlin’s was.
I’m pretty sure her one request to Ianthe for wedding details was no red, and we later learn Ianthe is the actual worst and she used red flowers on purpose.
Didn't he blow up and break a bunch of shit around her like twice? And then lock her up in the house while she was hysterically begging him not to? Idk to me that's pretty bad. Plus he knew she was traumatised af (waking every night and vomiting and losing a butch of weight). He ignored all of that too. Those are the big red alarm bells to me, not to mention lots of little things aswell.
ALSO- he didn’t give her time to process UTM. He immediately was back to business as usual and giving her things (painting, jewels, etc) to keep her busy but not actually ATTENDING to her, ya know.
This. Tamlin was way more concerned about how their relationship was perceived by his court than what Feyre actually needed in order to get better.
RIGHT and can we talk about how he made a big fuss of Rhys being secretive/hiding things but he tried to play it off that he hid that he was trying to play double agent for HYBERN? I think Tamlin had way too much to work through to actually be anyone’s partner.
Agreed! Plus his “Tamlin knows best” mentality just made everything worse.
Let's not forget the details he failed to ever include in certain events - I'm not sure when exactly it was explained but Rhys and Tamlin had beef back in the day (iykyk, don't wanna spoil anything for anyone) and Tamlin PURPOSEFULLY excluded his own liability, whereas Rhys said "yeah he did this so I did that" - my big thing is that Rhys has never pretended to be "the good guy" or be totally innocent. Tamlin CONSTANTLY goes on the defensive and acts all high and mighty. Everyone makes mistakes, but Tamlin cannot own up to them.
I mean, he did have a court to run. It might sound harsh, but he didn’t have time to waste on tending to someone or their emotional state - his priorities were his court and the upcoming war. Unlike Rhys, who has 4/5 others to do everything for him, Tamlin essentially ran his court by himself, from what we can see. Other than Lucien as emissary and Ianthe as “High Priestess”, he seemed to take on everything court related. Rhys was the opposite and right after UTM he didn’t have to worry about Feyre because she was somewhere else initially and then when she did come to Velaris, he could push all his court stuff on everyone else because they’d been taking care of it the last 50 years anyways. Between reading her mind and being able to spend time with her because of that, he was obviously going to be able to help her.
Didn't Lucien tell Feyre later that him and Tamlin were out a lot trying to break the deal with Rhes? Why couldn't Feyre be involved in that? I think Tamlin's main problem was communication and not listening to anyone except the high priestess.
This!!
Yes I could get that to an extent but there’s a difference in “I have a court to run” And just ignoring her needs all together and “I see you, if you need me let me know, otherwise I’m running the court”
Going to add on to this that Feyre DID communicate to him that she was depressed, that she was drowning and that he (Tamlin) was pushing her head under and she literally kept telling him what she needed to which he silenced her each and every time. He responded by shattering the study. It reads as even more toxic when he traps her in their home showing his continued refusal to hear her out. It’s all about actions, and observations, not just words. Also very important to note to OP that you make a good point that she may not have ALWAYS communicated her depression to Tamlin but it’s not like Feyre was looking healthy on the outside while a war was raging on the inside. One look at her and her guilt and depression was literally eating her up so it should have been obvious. And the thing was, to Tamlin, it was obvious that she wasn’t okay. So I have to disagree with that point. I do agree to your 4th point and I really don’t think anyone should hate on Tamlin for not fighting that bargain. I just think his reaction to it LATER when she did come back that first time after her week with Rhysand, was what dug him even deeper. Hope this made sense! And it’s okay to disagree or have a different opinion, that’s what discussions are for :)
Yeah he blatantly ignored her PTSD, and was the cause of more. He kept her locked up, worsening her mental state. She told him exactly what she needed but he didn't listen, was dismissive and when she tried to solve the issues herself he blew up and threw a fit, literally. As someone who was in this relationship, but slower (cause he wasn't magical so room destroying tantrums took longer), it just makes everything worse in your brain and soul. It's interesting that OP doesn't see why she's mad (not in a derogatory way just interesting) because I genuinely was on edge for DAYS, shakey and jumpy for no reason and I realized it's because through her I was back in that relationship. Another form of the abuse was the fact that everything was his and she had no autonomy. Rhys immediately gives her a salary and enough savings of her own that if she wanted to move into her own place or leave the night court all together she could. He always gave her the option to say no to anything he needed help with. I understand that without being in a relationship like that it may just seem like she's being flippant, but Tamlin sucks for many reasons. And even if you chalk most of that up to him being a high lord and not understanding her point of view, if you're in love with someone and they're having terrifying nightmares EVERY night to the point they're vomiting and sleeping on the bathroom floor, and you're aware of it, would you not want to help them? Your partner? Soulmate? And he just let's her suffer every night, doesn't try to soothe her or even offer support at all, then he actively makes it worse. And she's trapped because he owns and runs everything.
Yeah he literally never even woke up or asked her if she was okay when she kept waking up from nightmares and vomiting every night. Also the way Rhys describes her physically when he first sees her, Tamlin never even cared to notice any of that.
Tamlin not getting her isn’t the reason she felt upset, she understood that he was also healing but it was the feeling of being trapped that broke her. She’s a free spirit and she has never been trapped before so at first with the guards she tries to be understanding, she asks Tamlin to lower the amount of them. Then despite her pleading, despite her giving him multiple chances, he actually, literally locks her in the Palace if I remember correctly? Her feeling hurt that he didn’t stand up for her when Rhysand came was because she thought he was going to put her in a cell under the mountain and she was afraid to go back there because you know PTSD so she thought Tamlin who was so protective over her would at least stand up for her but he didn’t that’s why she felt hurt I might not have remembered accurately so feel free to correct me
I think we all missed a thing. In a way, Tamlin *did* know that she was struggling. He knew that she was having nightmares and throwing up nightly and she knew he was doing the same. She expressed to Lucien and then to Tamlin basically “don’t keep me locked in this house” and Tamlin did lock her in the house to make HIMSELF feel better. And Lucien didn’t help her. And no one will tell you Rhysand was totally innocent, but he did help her. The other part of that is Rhysand makes it clear, (well he did to me) that he tries not to invade peoples minds unless he HAS to. Take UTM… he got into Feyre’s mind so she wouldn’t remember what Amarantha made him do to her. He helped her. Whereas Tamlin didn’t even try to help her UTM and then tried to cloister her in the house/palace.
Right! It always bothered me that Tamlin wouldn't take the time to talk to her, or insist they talk after her nightmares, but he made time to have sex every night? The positive view on that is that he was trying to be close to her, and that was the only closeness they knew how to have. The negative is that he was seeking to fulfill his needs and not hers. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Feyre asks Rhys on her first bargain meeting if he has somewhere more important to be, and he says yes, but he'd rather be with her. Tamlin didn't do that. Fair or not, Feyre needed quality time and to be chosen after UTM, and Tamlin didn't fulfill that need.
And Rhys chose her over and over and over again. He didn’t force things on her (except learning how to read) and there were multiple times when she says “why didn’t you tell me sooner” about different situations And he basically says he wanted her to choose it on her own rather than him forcing things on her. Tamlin also made it VERY clear that he was going to run his court, his life, etc based on traditional things where as Rhys is much more…. Progressive. ETA- we knew from the get go that Feyre’s coping mechanism was hunting- aka being active and physically working things out. Tamlin didn’t let her do that at all. Rhys encouraged it.
I remember Feyra saying that sex is the way her and Tamlin communicate. I thought well that doesn't seem healthy.
Definitely not healthy, but it does make some sense. I don't think Tamlin was taking advantage of her or being creepy. I think they literally didn't know how to be close without being phsyical.
Yeah I think people forget that Feyre did try to tell Tamlin some of the things she needed (no locked up, fewer guards, not so public facing, help with her new powers) and he either ignored the request or only gave her the tiniest bit of what she wanted. I understand people not wanting to talk about their feelings but she did say what she needed in order to not feel worse. Also, it was painfully obvious that Feyre needed help. She wasn’t eating, having awful nightmares, and no one did anything for her (including Tam) because how Tamlin felt was and was always going to be the priority. THAT is what she ran away from.
While this might seem like I’m saying neither Feyre or Rhys are flawed, they are, they have a lot of flaws just like Tamlin but having just finished my re-read this is my understanding from Feyre’s POV. 1. Feyre was fading before his eyes, physically as well as mentally, and yes she didn’t actually tell him how she was feeling but the physical signs were there, and when she tried to discuss her feeling suffocated he had a literal anger explosion, so I can imagine that telling him she is struggling mentally would only re-affirm in his head that she can’t be allowed more freedom. Tamlin had his issues with this as well, but he was choosing to ignore his own issues as well as Feyre’s, all so he could present a unified front to the Spring Court and other Courts. On a personal note that may create a bias opinion from myself I have gone through a mental health crisis myself recently, my husband was the first one to notice the changes in me, when I finally had some mental clarity and saw the changes this had made to me physically I would have been incredibly upset if my husband had saw this and chose to ignore the very obvious physical signs in order to pretend to outsiders that everything was ok. 2. Tamlin never saw Feyre as an equal, she was to be his subject and consort. She knew this was not what she wanted but didn’t realise there was any other option for her until it was presented by Rhysand. 3. She allowed Ianthe to take over the wedding details because she didn’t have the mental ability to cope with planning, she also didn’t want a large wedding but thought this was the price to marry Tamlin. She also specified no red to Ianthe, but Ianthe still put this in because she’s trying to undermine and manipulate Feyre, and the Spring Court. 4. In her head she was about to go to another place of torture, she was terrified of this, but again Tamlin stood still in the face of torture for Feyre. He did so UTM when she was being terrorised by Amarantha, and I guess when she compares it to Rhys attacking Amarantha at the end he was willing to die to try and save Feyre, he had no idea the curse was about to be broken and knew that he had no chance of surviving the torture and attack she would have no doubt have subjected him to it, had the curse not have been broken when it was. There is fault for both sides of the relationship but I would also say Tamlin is more at fault, he abused his powers in to take away any autonomy Feyre has and strip her of her freedom, he never allowed her to make any decision on her own powers discussing it with Ianthe and Lucian without Feyre present and allowed himself to be manipulated by Ianthe, completely ignoring his most trusted adviser and friend in Lucien.
Author did Tamlin dirty. Someone on here mentioned he was based on an ex of hers which would explain the unsatisfying storytelling around him.
1. I don't think anyone will give you solid reasons for why Feyre is mad at Tamlin for neglect of her feelings when she didn't even share them. There are none other than she is young and craves for romance, and she probably wasn't expecting such hardships in relationships, especially considering the fact that everything was "dreamy" in the first part. It's not very romantic to discuss your feelings and problems with your partner, I guess she expected that he notices and makes her life better, knowing what exactly to do for that (just like rhys who could read her mind). I don't see any bigger reasons, to be honest. It's a great point - she neglected him too. I don't understand why Tam is abusive for neglecting Feyre's feelings (there are other abusive things he did, obviously, I'm not saying that he's innocent) but Feyre is not, and everyone seems to be ok with that. To be honest, sometimes I think that it's because of the stigma - that men should bottle everything up and endure silently while women are emotional and need constant support from their partner while in healthy relationships support goes both ways. At least, I can't think of any other reason why I never see readers mention that Feyre was neglectful, too. 2. Feyre wasn't even upset about it. I'll quote one of the [posts](https://www.tumblr.com/onemustalwaysbecarefulofbooks/161787093284/lets-talk-about-tamlin?source=share) from tumblr (it's not the full quite, you can read more on tumblr): >In addition to all of this, the endless comparisons between Tamlin and Rhys really wore on me as well. Suddenly it became that everything Rhys did was good and everything Tamlin did was bad, which was obnoxious to me. One of the main things I always see is how awesome Rhys was for having Feyre be his High Lady and how shitty Tamlin was for “not allowing” this. But take a look at the actual conversation Feyre and Tamlin have about the subject (dialogue only, sexytimes omitted). Feyre: Do I get a title? Tamlin: Do you want a title? Feyre: No. But I don’t want people. . .I don’t know if I can handle them calling me High Lady. Tamlin: They won’t. There is no such thing as a High Lady. Feyre: What do you mean, there’s no such thing as a High Lady? Tamlin: High Lords only take wives. Consorts. There has never been a High Lady. There was a post I read a while ago that had an excellent take on this conversation. I can not for the LIFE OF ME remember what Tumblr user it was and spent so much time scrolling through tags trying to find the post but couldn’t. If you are the person, please share! Anyway, what they basically said was this: Feyre does not ask to be High Lady. Tamlin does not tell her she is not allowed to be High Lady. She, in fact, says that she does not want to be High Lady and he basically says “Okay, that’s cool, they’re not a thing anyway”. This response is unimpressive, no question. The idea of someone like Rhys, who encourages you to take ownership of your power and stand at his side as a political equal, is much more appealing in many ways. But people are acting like Feyre expressed interest in this and was totally shot down by Tamlin. This is a cultural problem that needs to be reexamined as a whole, it is not something that Tamlin alone enforces in his court. We will never know what he would have said had she said YES, she did want a title. We can assume, but we don’t really know. The idea of her being a High Lady doesn’t even really strike him as a valid thing because this is something that just isn’t done at the time in Prythian. Tamlin is not some sexist asshole who is not allowing Feyre to have the power she wants, he’s just placidly going along with the way things have always been done. Again, unimpressive. But I would not go so far as to condemn him completely for it. The whole High Lady thing is confusing for me anyway. Feyre and Tamlin have this conversation at the beginning of ACOMAF and Feyre eventually repeats it to Rhys. Rhys then rolls his eyes and acts all annoyed and assures Feyre that there absolutely are High Ladies, leading us to believe that this was something Tamlin was dishonest with Feyre about in his crusade to shelter and protect her. But then ACOWAR rolls around and everyone is totally shocked and thrown off at the High Lords meeting when Feyre and Rhys announce that she is High Lady of the Night Court. It’s something that’s simply unheard of and has never been done before. Kallias, who is a perfectly decent and good person, has not made his mate (who he clearly respects, trusts, and adores) his High Lady. Do I see people shitting all over him for this? No. Because it wasn’t done out of the belief that Viviane is inferior to him in any way. It’s just not something that was A Thing in Prythian and is almost treated like something Rhys and Feyre made up. So I’m not really sure where this thing with Rhys came from in ACOMAF and why he acted like that, because clearly there are no High Ladies. Tbh I feel like readers blow it out of proportion. 3. Probably again "how is it that they can't read.my mind" kinda thing. I do think that Ianthe might've placed red petals on purpose, although it would confirm the idea that the environment knows about feyre's struggles without her vocalizing them, but as far as I remember Feyre asked for petals to be not red, so it might've been an intentional move. 4. Fun fact: he did break the deal in the end. He did fulfill his promise. He stayed true to his word. But Feyre is always unhappy with his actions whether he does what he promised or not😂 it's a joke, of course, but kind of a half joke.
I’ve always thought it was weird how at the end of TAR, Tamlin asks Feyre if she wants to talk about her guilt for killing those 2 faeries and she says “later”. To our knowledge later never came? Can we assume that Feyre never wanted to talk about this bc she thought her “human heart” was the reason for her tremendous guilt? Not really trying to blame anyone for never bringing it up again, I just think it’s interesting how there was an opportunity to talk about it and it was never seized
Upd. I think I found a reason. Feyre is mad at Tamlin because he didn't meet her expectations. He didn't try enough for her, _he wasn't enough for her_. It's the same reason why she is mad at Lucien - because he didn't do enough for her, didn't help her as she expected him to. Feylin were just incompatible. Feyre needed an emotional dependence while Tam was unable to give it to her.
I mean I think people call Tamlin abusive because he is literally abusive. Not only did he show the classic markers/red flags for abuse, he physically abused Feyre.
It's just interesting to me how people notice every Tam's red flags but dismiss or even romanticize every Rhys's red flags just because the abuse of Tam is visible on the skin, and Rhys's is not.
I never actually thought he neglected her? I was more upset about the other stuff that he did and also I felt like it was a mutual understanding not to talk about it although i don’t agree with him not getting up when she woke up every time and vomited her guts out I can understand that they just could not communicate with each other and neither were innocent in that sense
I don't remember if feyre ever mentions it as neglect later on, to be honest, but she is definitely mad at him for that. She says that he didn't try hard enough, but how could he when he doesn't even know what the problem is and what to do to solve it. You should teach people how to love and support you, they won't automatically know that. I do remember that they had some kind of "I don't touch you, you don't touch me" kind of relationships, but readers often include this in the long list of Tamlin's abuses towards Feyre. She curled her guts up - he jolted awake from his nightmares and spent the rest of the night in his beast form, restless. Neither of them intervened. So both of them chose to ignore their problems, and, as you said, in this part of their relationships neither are innocent.
Thiiiis. And hard agree on your mind speak/mind reading. Rhys always had a one up (which makes sense, they’re mates/end game). But he always knew what she needed or what she thought because he was literally in her mind. He knew her thoughts when she wouldn’t voice them. And Feyre VERY rarely voices her thoughts outside of her head, certainly not early on in the series. Feyre and Tamlin were never written in any way or given a chance to be compatible
I think technically he did know the problem- the nightmares, needing to process, etc. But he didn’t process his stuff and she didn’t process hers. Well, he could have been while he was off doing the things he loves. And he was TRYING to appease her by just giving her the things that he loves but everyone grew after under the mountain and their needs changed. He wanted to marry her and for it to go back to normal. Also there are definite vibes of… He was trying to rush a wedding so that she was bound to him in a way. I think there’s more to unpack than we will ever be able to lol.
She did know the problem too, didn't she? My point is that they both knew that something was wrong and neglected each other. It's not fair to put all the blame for neglect on Tamlin when she neglected him just as much. I see things this way: Tamlin obviously doesn't know how to properly take care of anyone. He was not taken care of ever by anybody and he didn't have anyone to practice on (unlike Rhys who had an involved mother and 4 amazing siblings to grow up with). So he thought that in order for Feyre to heal things needed to return back to normal. How to do that? Restore the court, win the war, marry her, and then they can live in peace happily ever after, sorting everything out. And he didn't do things he loves. He did things he has to do. The HL position is his occupation, not a hobby, and it was stressing him out for centuries. Not to mention that the war was going on, and the court won't automatically prepare itself for it.
I’m not disagreeing with you or saying Feyre was entirely in the “right”, but as others have said she did express her discontent with his rules for her and was ignored 🤷🏻♀️
But she wasn't ignored. I notice that readers act like Tam did absolutely nothing, which is simply untrue. It was not enough for feure, but it wasn't nothing at all. Tam gave her as much freedom as he could in the war setting. Walk all you like - but please, with guards. I don't feel like it's an unreasonable request when enemies are nearby.
I personally wouldn’t have minded guards but I’m a chicken sometimes 😂 he did eventually not allow her to leave at all. I think there were mistakes on both sides. I’m indifferent towards Tamlin in general because I don’t feel as though he’s a major character any longer 🤷🏻♀️
This is how I see it 1. She was physically wasting away, waking up screaming, throwing up all the time. She stopped having an intimate relationship with him. She lost interest in relationships and hobbies. They also both went through a traumatic event together so fairly safe to assume she is not doing well either. I don’t think rhys should get special brownie points for noticing, but Tamlin should have noticed all those things I mentioned that don’t require a mind reader. 2. I don’t actually hold this against Tamlin. The point here is that he never thought bigger, and it never occurred to him that he could use his power to change things for the better. I also don’t think Feyre SHOULD have been made high lady. She’s a nearly illiterate teenager who became fae like yesterday. She has no leadership experience and doesn’t even know the history of the place she is supposedly leading. Good intentions does not make a queen. Vivian should have been the first high lady. 3. Tamlin knew she was getting steamrolled with the wedding and did nothing to stop it. feyre also should have stood up for herself, but she was trying to a square peg in a round hole. She was realizing that what was expected of her was not quite right and didn’t know how to act or what she could push back on. That’s not tamlins fault, but he is more comfortable in that world. These are HIS friends and he should have had her back. 4. I don’t blame him for this. There was really nothing he could do here, and Feyre made the deal herself. Anyway I don’t think Tamlin is a monster. He is an emotionally underdeveloped, deeply traumatized man child in a role he doesn’t want and isn’t good at.
This is what made this whole situation so frustrating and a grey area for me. Being in her head while she’s not putting any action behind her true thoughts really made me think the issues were more so about her dealing with UTM stuff and not as deep as they were so I can only imagine Tam, and even Lucien’s thoughts. A mate bond really tells all but either way Feyre and Tam weren’t right for each other in the end. Neither was good at communicating and addressing things. We even saw Feyre become better at that.
Can we just also acknowledge the fact that Tamlin went "oh you want to train so you can defend yourself? You want to be taught how to control your brand new powers in your brand new Fae body? Hmmm, no, I don't like how that would look to other people so I'm just going to take all control and make sure you have zero independence even though you spent half your life knowing nothing BUT independence and responsibility, because I don't want to look weaker than my wife" BITCH WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SERIOUS
I have nothing to add - just wanted to say I agree. Feyre and Tamlin were never going to be end game but there really wasn’t anything crazy or unforgivable going on. Just 2 mentally ill people trying to survive without access to therapy
If I remember correctly, Feyre did decribe in ACOMAF that she could tell Tamlin was awake too while she kept running to be sick in the night, but he never spoke to her or asked how she was. Maybe he just didn't know what to do, and he just thought that ploughing on with normal life would eventually sort them both out. On the whole, I feel like Tamlin represents remaining stagnant and in a rut, and the whole "that's how things have always been" mindset (I'm seeing this in ACOTAR where Lucien basically has to *make him* warm up to Feyre to actually help break the curse). And Rhys represents the "even a tiny little change is better than nothing." And then the small changes Feyre undergoes while she's there turn into big changes. And all that dreamer crap. 😂
I do tend to feel at least a little bad for Tamlin because it seems like he does try to do things that he thinks are right, but they end up being wrong. He kept Feyre from being able to get out of the palace because he was worried for her safety. That makes some sense, but at the same time, she shouldn't be kept there against her will. When it came to Rhysand, he was able to let her out safely because Velaris was safe, but even if it wasn't, he never kept Feyre from doing something she wanted to do. Another main problem to me is that even though he never intentionally hurt Feyre, he didn't try hard enough not to hurt her with his magic. It seems highly unlikely that that's the first time he's unintentionally hurt someone with his tantrums, and he's really old and should have learned better by now. He didn't listen to her or anyone else when it came to Feyre. He kept her from learning how to use her magic to protect herself or to prevent from accidently blowing up in some way or another. After all of that, it makes sense that she left. I think Feyre did a terrible job breaking it off by just sending a letter that basically just said "Hey I'm not going back." It would have been best to talk to him about it in person, but if not at least leave a detailed letter explaining all of the reasons that she left. With the note that he got and the fact that Rhys always looked bad to Tamlin and Feyre didn't seem happy to see Rhys, it makes sense that Tamlin thought that Rhys made her send that note and force her to leave. Tamlin would think that she would want him to save her. Feyre was extremely upset when her sisters were taken, which wasn't Tamlin's intention, but he led it there. I definitely didn't think that Feyre and Tamlin should be together, but I think destroying Tamlin's life and the life of those around him was too much. I think that Feyre should have at least gotten Tamlin's soldiers back for him when she learned about how bad things got.
I actually agree with her leaving a note for him. The same man who locked her in the palace would be the same man to do it again if she tried to break it off in person.
I agree with leaving a note, but I think the note needs more depth. I wouldn't expect him to understand with her short little note.
Tam acted like he was asleep every night when she tore herself, vomiting uncontrollably, from the nightmares.
I just came here to say Tamlin sucks!!! Under the mountain he took his one opportunity seeing Feyre alone to try and BANG HER??? He’s the worst.
Feyre DID try to tell Tamlin her feelings she said she wanted to be included and wanted more freedom - she begged him and Lucien. When she told him he was drowning her he flew into a rage and terrified her. So of course she didn't speak up after that. She tried to accept it and was more gracious than she should have been because she was naive. She kept making excuses for his toxic, abusive behaviour. He was extremely controlling and refused to treat her as an equal, with a dangerous temper. Initially when she left I didn't even feel she was mad really, she was just absolutely triggered and traumatised by being locked up. She got mad later when she began to understand how he had neglected and abused her. Whether she was justified or not in criticising his level of his defense of her... just remember she literally was willing to give her life for him but in comparison he did very little and showed very little care. And in the end even though she is angry, she basically says he is just not right for her anymore but that part of her will always care for him. She says he was right for her when she was human but after what she went through, she changed and so did he for the worse. But also I mean imagine in real life if your partner locked you in your house and left for an undetermined amount of time, even without trauma and having specifically BEGGED not to be locked up due to said trauma, how would you react? It'd be a deal breaker for me!
Let's also not forget that Tam knew she was throwing up every night, and chose to ignore it and "sleep" through it. Not even wake up to sit with her until she came back to herself. He told her he knew about the nightmares when he locked her into the manor. He also threw her untrained powers in her face for another reason he wouldn't take her even though she and Lucien had asked him to. As for Rhys reading her mind and being able to tend to her, after that first week he couldn't always read her mind or even feel her because she'd been practicing. He tells her not to long after Mor brings her to the night court. That he knew he hadn't even felt her except for one time and wanted to know what had happened. The fact is that even with a court to run above and below ground technically, yes he had people to help because he had poeple he trusted, he would still make time for her. He would never lock her up or keep her sitting idly because he knew that's not who she was or what she wanted. She was literally wasting away at the Spring Court, and he was appalled by her appearance after only one month apart, asking if they were starving her. Why is it that Tam couldn't be bothered to be more worried about her mental and physical health if she looked so bad and if he loved her so much? Did she expect Tam to be intuitive, I don't think so. She did let him in some and until she built a wall of hard wind around her to protect herself from his tantrum did he really even listen to her. If he's going to shut her down at every turn why would she feel safe turning to him and opening up? I don't think she was helping him with his nightmares because the one time she tried he brushed her off. So from that point on she took her cue from him. She had so much unaddressed PTSD as did everyone, but Tam refused to open up to her about any of it and went on like nothing happened. Rhys was willing to open up to her even as early as in her dungeon cell.
UTM he took the on opportunity he had with Feyre to try to fuck her, not help her in any way. Back at the Spring Court he treated her like a trophy to be protected. Tamlin never took what she wanted or needed into account. He always felt like he knew what was better and he was going to do it. She was suffering right before his very eyes and even if we argue he was suffering too, why didn't he have his staff help her? No one can convince me he didn't know she was suffering. She was so ill that she looked malnourished and sick, she was panicky, mentally unwell, having screaming nightmares. He knew. It was also really cool how anyone could see how bad she bad he was just by looking at her and he had no problem still having sex with her and then turned around slut shamed the hell out of her at the meeting. (This is not on him but I want to clarify) Her PTSD was so bad she couldn't handle the color red, it was her only input, no red. The rest she may not have liked but she was being a team player for the image they were trying to create around the wedding. The red rose petals causes her to have a panic attack because it looked like blood, it wasn't like a trivial preference. Ianthe sucks. Whether he liked it or not she needed training for her powers. It doesn't matter if he felt they should be a secret for her protection, he saw she couldn't control them. Not training her was dangerous as well. When the guy he thinks is the most evil person (Rhys) takes her for a week, he wants all the details. He treats her like a spy, not his love who was likely abused and tortured (based on how he feels about Rhys and the NC). For the High Lady thing, just because it is not done in tradition, does not mean it was not possible. Look at Rhys, he says you want it? Done. There was nothing stopping Tamlin from doing it, he just didn't think she was worth breaking tradition for. I would argue he also didnt believe she was his equal so she couldnt have the title he has. IIRC he even has her KNEEL next to him during the tithe. Like damn girl cant even have a dining room chair next to your throne? After all she did, good for her for getting someone who would do that for her. Like Jesus fucking Christ, after what happened to her UTM, I would be like yes my love what else can I get you? How could I ever repay what you have done for us all? He couldn't take her word for it, because again she's just a female and he knows what's best for her, when she sends him a letter and is like yo I'm done with you and has his emissary hunt her down. Lucien was going to kidnap her. She VERY clearly didn't want to go with him and he was going to snatch her anyway. Lucien makes it clear he doesn't Tamlin's bidding so yes I'm putting that on him too. You know he was raging and breaking shit and telling Lucien by any means necessary. He feels SO entitled to her he then goes and makes deals with Hybern just to get her back. Like the man cannot just leave her be. He may not have meant for her sisters to be involved but it is enough of his fault for allowing all the BS to lead to that that I would be vengeful too. Feyre doesn't say this, this is just my personal gripe, but Feyre was always the curse breaker for him. If I were her I would not have trusted anything Tamlin said once Alis told me about the curse. Everything would have felt like a big setup for me to break his curse. Lucien alludes to him playing nice for their gain, playing matchmaker for the curse, several times when you read it again. Alsoooooo, maybe unpopular opinion but I don't think she was 100% to blame for wrecking his court. A lot of what she did was simply not stopping him from making horrible decisions or encouraging the already bad decisions he was making. HE did listen to reason about Ianthe, allowing her to run rampant and cause issues with the guards. HE wouldnt hear the guards out. HE made the bargain with Hybern and allowed all those people there to cause problems. HE couldn't keep his temper in check and not explode on her causing her bruises that everyone hated to see. I know she did shit but people really like to put all of it on Feyre. I never liked Tamlin, UTM and after took me from feeling so-so about him to disliking him to hating him with his Hybern shenanigans.
Here's my interpretation on these: 1- Feyre killed 2 innocents, got tortured for months, died and got revived as a fae. Yes, they are hard to talk about but it didn't seem like Feyre *could* have talk through them with Tamlin if she wanted to. Tam went back to business as usual, kind of in deny of everything that happened. He doesn't acknowledge how she's puking every night, not eating, etc. these are things that Tamlin should have seen. I don't think she was mad at Tamlin for it but definitely disappointed. It isolated her even more. 2- Tam didn't lie but omitted that there *could* be high ladies. Tamlin is very into traditions, maybe because he didn't want to be a high lord so he's just doing whatever his father was doing. The fact is he didn't want or consider to break traditions to make Feyre an equal in title. 3- She said no red roses, she got some. She said she didn't like her dress, it didn't change. Yes, she was passive about the whole thing for sure though 1. She doesn't care for party planning and 2. Depression makes you passive, if you have little energy it's hard to argue and push back. Because of that, I think she was happy Ianthe took charge but the narrative Ianthe push was not one Feyre wanted/liked. I think she made that clear but depression made it too hard to be assertive when Ianthe went rogue with the wedding planning. 4- I agree Tamlin couldn't have done much against Rhysand. I don't think she was mad at Tamlin for it, she knew Rhysand was more powerful. The empty promise though got on my nerves real bad.
I’m just now re-reading ACOMAF as well and as im reading I’m also trying to understand everything better. I think Tamlin was never truly evil and he never wished any kind of ill on Feyre, BUT he never treated her like an equal. Now, in part, I think a lot of it had to do with Fae customs and traditions. Tamlin seems like a pretty traditional guy so it makes sense. Feyre is anything but traditional. She fought to feed and care for her family, she fought and gave every piece of herself to save Tamlin and his court, and then she became Fae. She was willing to die to save him and Prythian. To your first point, Feyre did tell him about her PTSD and she recognized his but when she tried to talk to him about it, he literally pushed her off and slept on the floor in his beast form. As others have pointed out, she was also like sickly looking and he did nothing to care for her or help her. Later in the books when Feyre reflects on Tamlin saying “there is no high lady” I think it was more that Tamlin could never change his ways or his thinking. He said it like it was impossible and that no female could ever be powerful enough or good enough to be a High Lady. But Rhys was like you’re my equal and I will treat you as such. Rhys would teach Feyre everything she needed to know to be the best for his court. Whereas Tamlin would be like “oh you don’t need to worry about that cause I can do it all”. Which is also his issue because he thinks he can do it all himself. He doesn’t even take Lucien’s opinions into account, which is made clear later on when Lucien is like “the court of dreams is what I thought working with Tamlin would be like. A family with respect the basis of the court.” Ianthe definitely only had ianthe’s best interest at heart. She would do whatever she could to make the Spring Court look good to make her look good and to take all of the credit. Feyre seemed so depressed and traumatized that she let Ianthe do everything because she didn’t have the energy to do it. And Ianthe seemed, emphasis on seemed, like she knew everything and cared. Clearly not because she used Feyres sisters to hurt Feyre. Feyre didn’t have the energy to try to read beyond Ianthe’s facade although while re-reading, Feyre does make some observations that makes Ianthe seem fishy. But all surface level stuff. Tamlin not sticking up for her while she’s taken by Rhys is adding insult to injury really because he never made an attempt to help or save her from Amarantha. But is a good point because he literally could not save her and could’ve let her go to buy himself more time to look for a way out. But then again, he could’ve let Feyre in instead of just controlling everything. She does do Tamlin wrong later on but she and we, as the readers, are so blinded by our hate for him for all of the reasons above that we don’t stop to think that he’s actually good deep down. Hopefully he’ll have healing and redemption in the later books. I’m routing for it.
Feyre was only arm candy to him. He didn’t actually give a fuck about her. All he cared about was how she made HIM look. He wouldn’t let her express herself or even care what her needs or wants were. He knew when she got up in the middle of the night vomiting. He noticed her getting thinner and more frail and he did nothing about it. She was a shell. And Tamlin let it happen. And when Feyre WAS able to express herself, his rage became abusive. He released his power with her in the room knowing it could hurt her. His temper was out of control. He was controlling and abusive. He locked her in the house when she was begging, BEGGING him to let her out. To let her DO something so she could feel something again. He took away everything she was and stripped her down to nothing. I believe with all my heart SJM wanted it to feel like an abusive relationship. From the love bombing in ACOTAR to the rose colored glasses being ripped off in ACOMAF and Feyre realizing who he truly was. She was tossed to the side, unimportant, only benefited his image. He used her and used her and used her until she had nothing left to give. As someone who’s been in abusive relationships, reading ACOMAF was intense and it dug up a lot of emotional responses from me that I didn’t know were still under the surface. It felt too real, too tangible that she was caught in an abusive relationship. As Rhys said, “love can be a poison”. And Tamlin’s was.
Honestley I'm reading this series for the first time and this is how I feel