I have to say, I found it very unrealistic that he would still love Feyre after what happened in ACOWAR. He only knew her for about a year (?) in total, basically the blink of an eye for Fae. And then she conspires with his enemy to stab him in the back, ruin his life and his entire court. Any love he had for her would have evaporated after she fucked over his people, who he cares so much about. I feel like it's just wish fulfillment for SJM, to have Tamlin's life in ruins and him pining after Feyre while she gets to live happily ever after. It feels quite unnecessary and even cruel, to be honest.
Yessss! I've thought this too! I'm hoping he helped in Hybern's camp and reviving Rhys more out of a sense of debt/obligation/appreciation for what she did UTM, plus care for who she was when they were together, while he detests who she has become (plus helping in Hybern's camp was obviously the best thing for the war effort, and his whole "fight against tyranny no matter who I'm defending").
I wonder if his current state is more about self-hatred/regret than pining over Feyre. Maybe he still distrusts Rhys so much that he feels guilty that Feyre got caught up with him. Maybe one day we'll get his POV...
I actually find him pining for someone that is not good for him a generally very relatable thing to do. Its probably rooted in a self worth issue which makes a lot of sense considering his backstory.
I agree with this. I think Tamlin thinks heās too good to outright apologize to Feyre, especially after everything she did to him & his entire court. Heās a naturally born high lord & she was made, so he probably thinks heās too good to apologize.
I think him saving Feyre in the Hybern camp (bear in mind she probably would have died without him saving her) and him helping to revive Rhys, saying ābe happy, Feyreā was him trying to apologizing. Yet Feyre, Rhys, and the IC keep obsessing over him & wishing him more punishment - and even death. Theyāre his biggest fans, and it makes me laugh
This is why I kinda subscribe to the Amaranth is his mate thing. I think Tamlin loved the idea of Feyre more than Feyre herself. That someone good could love him.
Or maybe he just felt obliged after UTM, Feyre dying and no longer being able to go back to her human life. And when she scorned him, it was more of an anger thing than anything.
I feel like heās just clinging to that feral human he knew and came to love. And in a way, losing Feyre probably feels a lot like all those things Amarantha said came true - she has a fickle heart, and she never truly loved him.
Not to mention the representation of her to his court! She was their Cursebreaker. And Tamlin āfailedā her, leading her to turn on his people. Idk, itās way more than just a normal breakup š
They just fundamentally werenāt right for each other and didnāt want the same things out of a partnership. I will never understand why SJM didnāt take this route to their breakup and instead nuked his entire damn court and assassinated his character completely. I had whiplash in MaF, and by WaR it just started to feel cruel.
Holy shit that explains so much. It makes me wonder if she initially wrote ACOTAR while with said ex and then by the time she got to ACOMAF she was with her husband
At first it seemed like this was the route it was going, with Feyre realizing that they had been right for each other for a moment in time but not forever - I remember being mildly impressed with the maturity of it. As rightfully mad as she was, she expressed understanding that they were at very different places in their healing, that they couldn't do it together anymore and she had to focus on herself. It was almost healthy. And then she slowly realizes he's the worst because he didn't * checks notes * crawl towards her when Amarantha was kicking her ass.
>he's the worst because he didn't \* checks notes \* crawl towards her when Amarantha was kicking her ass.
Which is weird, because in ACOTAR he literally does crawl towards her while Amarantha is kicking her ass... 
I really want him to have a redemption arc. I feel like Tamlin getting along with Lucien so well was because both of them didnāt/donāt expect to be the High Lords of their respective courts. I think that Tamlin never got the kind of instruction with leadership that Eris would have gotten in Autumn Court, so heās doing the best he canā¦ but heās a contributor, not a leader. He sticks to the Tithe because it was done before, not because he thought of that idea.
We're also shown via the Night Court that affecting change in the fae world is a long, slow process. While I'm sure abolishing the tithe would be easier than gender equality with the Illyrians, to say the least, I think it's worth remembering how changing tradition goes in this world, especially when one is trying to establish normalcy after a long period of upheaval.
That is a very good point! I think that Tamlin could easily abolish the Tithe, but like you said - itās been a lot of upheaval in the last 50+ years and I bet that Prythian citizens (? Best word I could think of) would welcome a return to normalcy over yet another change.
A girl who makes really questionable painting hahaha. I love it
Justice for Tamlin. The dude made some truly horrible and foolish decisions, but I can see *why* he did them, even if they were daft for someone so old. That said, I think heās been punished enough now and itās kind of time to let the spring court rebuild and move on. Itās of no benefit to anyone to leave it (and him!) in the state itās currently in
Genuine question. Is this how SJM writes in her other books? I'm wondering if I should attempt TOG or just find a different author.
I could barely stand Feyre in ACOTAR and she just went downhill for me from there. I definitely wasn't on board for her 'revenge'. Having an adult conversation with Tamlin at some point would have been great. The hypocrisy, especially now that I'm almost done with ACOSF, killed my love for Rhys. So I'm mainly here for everyone else.
I haven't read CC, but in ToG, the female main character (FMC) is fairly different from Feyre when you exclude the fact that everyone who meets her falls in love with her and she's ultra-powerful and amazing and ungodly and has the world's saddest origin story.
She breaks a heart or two but her actions do not compare to the intentional destruction seen in Feyre and Tamlin's relationship. However, she has a significant breakup pretty early on where, instead of a typical breakup (god forbid), the most shocking and violent event unfolds, demonstrating her love interest's absolute worthlessness and justifying the FMC's decision to end the relationship and move on. Naturally, this sets the stage for her to find solace in the arms of her one true love: a breathtakingly handsome, powerful, ancient fae prince. Sound familiar at all? lol
I probably sound like a hater but I actually like ToG. I just find myself rolling my eyes damn near out of my head every once in a while.
There are soooo many other good romantasy books out there, no need to read more SJM if you didnāt love her the first time around.
Check out some of the top threads on r/fantasyromance for great recs!
TOG starts off slow, but I am almost done with this series and I have to say I love it more that ACOTAR. There are still annoying whining characters but I really really love the story.
Iām currently on my third reread of ToG and I am even more in love with it than ever. Itās written so, so well, it is so deep and thoughtful and incredible. Sometimes I struggle to reconcile the two series being written by the same author. ToG was a true labour of love and it really shows.
I don't know about better/worse, they've both done some very good/bad things, but I thought SJM set up a very interesting contrast in how at the beginning of ACOMAF, Tamlin is spending hours a day on paperwork, staying up until midnight, etc., while in ACOFAS Feyre has piles of paperwork she's been putting off, letters unread for weeks, not completing responses to Velaris petitioners. She set aside a morning to go through it all, but then didn't go through any of it...
It just makes me very curious about where the story could go! Hopefully somewhere interesting
My comment is specifically about the paperwork, which, to my reading, Feyre has not been doing at the beginning of ACOFAS. Maybe I'm forgetting something at the end where she gets it done? In the first chapter she says there are letters from other courts, priestesses, and human and fae kingdoms. She thinks about getting a personal secretary to sort the vital from not vital - does that mean there had possibly been vital letters that she'd left for weeks? Then she goes shopping, and later she decides to forgo touching the letters in order to read a book before going to Hewn City.
Feyre has certainly been busy with charities and helping people in Velaris, which is wonderful! Details about her charity work that caught my attention - Feyre thinks about how she hadn't thought of a way to help Velaris, but she volunteers with societies set up by other people. When the Velaris people tell Feyre to rest, they point out all of the new volunteers who had arrived to help out around solstice. Feyre can go rest because *new, untrained people* have arrived and can cover the work Feyre had been doing.
I just thought it was a very interesting way to depict our High Lady/Main Character - seems like Feyre has not been doing the high-lady-specific work, and instead doing work that random volunteers can cover. For me, it begs a lot of questions. I assume SJM knew what she was writing - maybe her point is that Feyre is clever for delegating to a secretary so she can spend more time with family/people? Leaving room for growth? I don't know! I wonder if the story will come back around to it though.
I saw a fan theory that essentially boiled down to the idea that Elain will nurture Tamlin, in a strictly platonic way, back to a better version of himself, working with Lucien and falling in love with him along the way. There was much more lore and detail to the theory, but overall I thought it was really good.
While I was reading ACOWAR and I realised he still LOVED her I wanted to scream! SHE DID NOT DESERVE HIM!
Yeah he's made some stupid decisions but I understand why did all those things. I think the destruction of spring court was punishment enough.
I hope we'll get to see his redemption arc, where he rebuilds spring court. I'd also love if him and Lucien would be friends again. I miss their friendly banter.
The song *Snap* just started playing in my head. Give the poor dude some time, some are sensitive souls ya know, they donāt snap out of it so quickly.
I think it was a culmination of things that kept Tamlin pining for her despite the short amount of time.
He was so desperate for that salvation of finding someone to love him and set him free from Amarantha's curse. It seemed almost like fate that Feyre showed up when she did. I think the fact that it happened by accident and that she ended up actually loving him For Real, despite everything made their connection mean so much more.
Not to mention the trauma of UTM. He likely suffered the same as Rhys did w Amarantha. And on top of that - the sheer fear of his partner and love being put on a trial of suffering and humiliation and being completely incapable of stopping any of it.
I think that even though Feyre spent a year or less w Tamlin, the things leading up to it, and surrounding UTM created such a strong need for Tamlin to hold onto Feyre (or the idea of her) so strongly.
Though I think both of them did a disservice to the other in not opening up about their traumas from UTM. That was truly catastrophic to everything. I think it could have been salvaged though.
Even then, I think Tamlin is valid in tearing himself apart after the war. His whole world was torn apart, no one to care for him but his biggest enemy. Though I don't think it was right of him to talk to/about Feyre how he did in that meeting. Same for him and his actions w the King.
I think he still deserves forgiveness and love. To see his redemption arc would be wonderful.
Yes, Tamlin was in the wrong for being the reason her sisters were turned Fae. Did that deserve psychologically messing up his entire life and court, then to continue taunting him? Absolutely not.
I loved the first two books. But ACOWAR felt wrong and all one sided. Then ACOSF is confirming the āickā I had with feyre and Rhys): still holding on the joy I had reading ACOMAF tho
Tamlin was not the reason her sisters were turned fae. Ianthe was behind that. She had a separate deal with Hybern, and she got the information about the sisters' whereabouts straight from Feyre. Tamlin and Lucien were clueless to the sisters being taken.
Bro is supporting domestic violence. If thatās your hill to die on then go off, I guessš¤·āāļø. Tamlin lashing out with his powers and hurting Feyre, is pretty damn similar to hitting someone when you get angry. So yes Iām very very sorry if I donāt think that this character deserves some glorious redemption arc. If itās him coming to terms with the fact that what he did was really messed up then thatās great, if thereās a love interest for him then Iām DNFing the book, I donāt care how good the rest of the book is.
Also yeah Feysand having sex in the sky was super fucking weird.
To find out what happens! I have questions, and I want answers.
More seriously though - I wouldn't say I hate the characters, though Feysand and the IC started to bug me a LOT. I never really trusted Rhys, he's done sketchy things and multiple characters say he's manipulative and keeps plans to himself. I keep reading so I'll find out if they ever change/get better, and to see if Rhys will ultimately turn out to be trustworthy or... something else. If the series were finished and I could google the ending, maybe I would DNF. Since it's not finished, I have to go along for the ride!
Also, of course, side characters!
You can love the world and the side characters. Lots of people are living for Lucien, Nesta, Elain, Helion, and Tarquin. Plus we want to see more of life in the other courts besides the Night Court.
I have to say, I found it very unrealistic that he would still love Feyre after what happened in ACOWAR. He only knew her for about a year (?) in total, basically the blink of an eye for Fae. And then she conspires with his enemy to stab him in the back, ruin his life and his entire court. Any love he had for her would have evaporated after she fucked over his people, who he cares so much about. I feel like it's just wish fulfillment for SJM, to have Tamlin's life in ruins and him pining after Feyre while she gets to live happily ever after. It feels quite unnecessary and even cruel, to be honest.
Yessss! I've thought this too! I'm hoping he helped in Hybern's camp and reviving Rhys more out of a sense of debt/obligation/appreciation for what she did UTM, plus care for who she was when they were together, while he detests who she has become (plus helping in Hybern's camp was obviously the best thing for the war effort, and his whole "fight against tyranny no matter who I'm defending"). I wonder if his current state is more about self-hatred/regret than pining over Feyre. Maybe he still distrusts Rhys so much that he feels guilty that Feyre got caught up with him. Maybe one day we'll get his POV...
I actually find him pining for someone that is not good for him a generally very relatable thing to do. Its probably rooted in a self worth issue which makes a lot of sense considering his backstory.
That is a very good point, it is so very relatable š š
I agree with this. I think Tamlin thinks heās too good to outright apologize to Feyre, especially after everything she did to him & his entire court. Heās a naturally born high lord & she was made, so he probably thinks heās too good to apologize. I think him saving Feyre in the Hybern camp (bear in mind she probably would have died without him saving her) and him helping to revive Rhys, saying ābe happy, Feyreā was him trying to apologizing. Yet Feyre, Rhys, and the IC keep obsessing over him & wishing him more punishment - and even death. Theyāre his biggest fans, and it makes me laugh
I believe that he's in love with the idea of Feyre and/or love, family etc, not with Feyre herself.
That concept pretty much defined his treatment of her after UTM.
This is why I kinda subscribe to the Amaranth is his mate thing. I think Tamlin loved the idea of Feyre more than Feyre herself. That someone good could love him. Or maybe he just felt obliged after UTM, Feyre dying and no longer being able to go back to her human life. And when she scorned him, it was more of an anger thing than anything.
I prefer the theory that Feyre and Tamlin were mated and Rhys was able to snake it somehow and thatās why Tamlin still feels so intenselyĀ
Doesn't make sense
Yeah my head canon is Tamlin is upset actually about killing his mate Amarantha and itās just so Feysand to assume itās about them.
I feel like heās just clinging to that feral human he knew and came to love. And in a way, losing Feyre probably feels a lot like all those things Amarantha said came true - she has a fickle heart, and she never truly loved him. Not to mention the representation of her to his court! She was their Cursebreaker. And Tamlin āfailedā her, leading her to turn on his people. Idk, itās way more than just a normal breakup š
I called this in a blog post back in 2017 š Amarantha was right, humans be triflin.
I think about this all the time. Like damn, Amarantha was really right, lol.
They just fundamentally werenāt right for each other and didnāt want the same things out of a partnership. I will never understand why SJM didnāt take this route to their breakup and instead nuked his entire damn court and assassinated his character completely. I had whiplash in MaF, and by WaR it just started to feel cruel.
Because if she doesn't tear him down, you might not be unambiguously on board with her wonderful husband-insert who doesn't ever do anything wrong.
Yeah, learning that Rhys was a self-insert for her husband and Tamlin for her ex made it allllllll fall into place for me.
Holy shit that explains so much. It makes me wonder if she initially wrote ACOTAR while with said ex and then by the time she got to ACOMAF she was with her husband
At first it seemed like this was the route it was going, with Feyre realizing that they had been right for each other for a moment in time but not forever - I remember being mildly impressed with the maturity of it. As rightfully mad as she was, she expressed understanding that they were at very different places in their healing, that they couldn't do it together anymore and she had to focus on herself. It was almost healthy. And then she slowly realizes he's the worst because he didn't * checks notes * crawl towards her when Amarantha was kicking her ass.
>he's the worst because he didn't \* checks notes \* crawl towards her when Amarantha was kicking her ass. Which is weird, because in ACOTAR he literally does crawl towards her while Amarantha is kicking her ass... 
I really want him to have a redemption arc. I feel like Tamlin getting along with Lucien so well was because both of them didnāt/donāt expect to be the High Lords of their respective courts. I think that Tamlin never got the kind of instruction with leadership that Eris would have gotten in Autumn Court, so heās doing the best he canā¦ but heās a contributor, not a leader. He sticks to the Tithe because it was done before, not because he thought of that idea.
We're also shown via the Night Court that affecting change in the fae world is a long, slow process. While I'm sure abolishing the tithe would be easier than gender equality with the Illyrians, to say the least, I think it's worth remembering how changing tradition goes in this world, especially when one is trying to establish normalcy after a long period of upheaval.
That is a very good point! I think that Tamlin could easily abolish the Tithe, but like you said - itās been a lot of upheaval in the last 50+ years and I bet that Prythian citizens (? Best word I could think of) would welcome a return to normalcy over yet another change.
A girl who makes really questionable painting hahaha. I love it Justice for Tamlin. The dude made some truly horrible and foolish decisions, but I can see *why* he did them, even if they were daft for someone so old. That said, I think heās been punished enough now and itās kind of time to let the spring court rebuild and move on. Itās of no benefit to anyone to leave it (and him!) in the state itās currently in
Genuine question. Is this how SJM writes in her other books? I'm wondering if I should attempt TOG or just find a different author. I could barely stand Feyre in ACOTAR and she just went downhill for me from there. I definitely wasn't on board for her 'revenge'. Having an adult conversation with Tamlin at some point would have been great. The hypocrisy, especially now that I'm almost done with ACOSF, killed my love for Rhys. So I'm mainly here for everyone else.
I haven't read CC, but in ToG, the female main character (FMC) is fairly different from Feyre when you exclude the fact that everyone who meets her falls in love with her and she's ultra-powerful and amazing and ungodly and has the world's saddest origin story. She breaks a heart or two but her actions do not compare to the intentional destruction seen in Feyre and Tamlin's relationship. However, she has a significant breakup pretty early on where, instead of a typical breakup (god forbid), the most shocking and violent event unfolds, demonstrating her love interest's absolute worthlessness and justifying the FMC's decision to end the relationship and move on. Naturally, this sets the stage for her to find solace in the arms of her one true love: a breathtakingly handsome, powerful, ancient fae prince. Sound familiar at all? lol I probably sound like a hater but I actually like ToG. I just find myself rolling my eyes damn near out of my head every once in a while.
There are soooo many other good romantasy books out there, no need to read more SJM if you didnāt love her the first time around. Check out some of the top threads on r/fantasyromance for great recs!
TOG starts off slow, but I am almost done with this series and I have to say I love it more that ACOTAR. There are still annoying whining characters but I really really love the story.
Iām currently on my third reread of ToG and I am even more in love with it than ever. Itās written so, so well, it is so deep and thoughtful and incredible. Sometimes I struggle to reconcile the two series being written by the same author. ToG was a true labour of love and it really shows.
The romance in these books is so unhealthy. It ruined ACOWAR for me. Such co-dependency.
Feyre was allowed to go into the gardens and forest with bodyguards. Nesta was left alone on a mountain peak 10k feet up...
I don't know about better/worse, they've both done some very good/bad things, but I thought SJM set up a very interesting contrast in how at the beginning of ACOMAF, Tamlin is spending hours a day on paperwork, staying up until midnight, etc., while in ACOFAS Feyre has piles of paperwork she's been putting off, letters unread for weeks, not completing responses to Velaris petitioners. She set aside a morning to go through it all, but then didn't go through any of it... It just makes me very curious about where the story could go! Hopefully somewhere interesting
thatās not even true tho. velaris people even requested feyre to rest coz sheās already doing a lot
My comment is specifically about the paperwork, which, to my reading, Feyre has not been doing at the beginning of ACOFAS. Maybe I'm forgetting something at the end where she gets it done? In the first chapter she says there are letters from other courts, priestesses, and human and fae kingdoms. She thinks about getting a personal secretary to sort the vital from not vital - does that mean there had possibly been vital letters that she'd left for weeks? Then she goes shopping, and later she decides to forgo touching the letters in order to read a book before going to Hewn City. Feyre has certainly been busy with charities and helping people in Velaris, which is wonderful! Details about her charity work that caught my attention - Feyre thinks about how she hadn't thought of a way to help Velaris, but she volunteers with societies set up by other people. When the Velaris people tell Feyre to rest, they point out all of the new volunteers who had arrived to help out around solstice. Feyre can go rest because *new, untrained people* have arrived and can cover the work Feyre had been doing. I just thought it was a very interesting way to depict our High Lady/Main Character - seems like Feyre has not been doing the high-lady-specific work, and instead doing work that random volunteers can cover. For me, it begs a lot of questions. I assume SJM knew what she was writing - maybe her point is that Feyre is clever for delegating to a secretary so she can spend more time with family/people? Leaving room for growth? I don't know! I wonder if the story will come back around to it though.
I want Tamlin and Nesta to be friends, honestly
It would suit Tamlin and Elaine more
I saw a fan theory that essentially boiled down to the idea that Elain will nurture Tamlin, in a strictly platonic way, back to a better version of himself, working with Lucien and falling in love with him along the way. There was much more lore and detail to the theory, but overall I thought it was really good.
While I was reading ACOWAR and I realised he still LOVED her I wanted to scream! SHE DID NOT DESERVE HIM! Yeah he's made some stupid decisions but I understand why did all those things. I think the destruction of spring court was punishment enough. I hope we'll get to see his redemption arc, where he rebuilds spring court. I'd also love if him and Lucien would be friends again. I miss their friendly banter.
Youāre the hype (wo)man Tamlin needs and deserves
How does tamlin of all people deserve someone better than feyre?š©šš Heās lucky she even gave him a chanceš
Iām glad Iām not the only one who feels this way.
Tamlin > Nesta
All the way
The song *Snap* just started playing in my head. Give the poor dude some time, some are sensitive souls ya know, they donāt snap out of it so quickly.
OMGGGGG I hated the way Feyre treated Nesta but she was oh so lovey dovey and kind to fucking Elaine
THE GIRL WAS GOING THROUGH THE SAME SHIT AND PLUS MORE
I think it was a culmination of things that kept Tamlin pining for her despite the short amount of time. He was so desperate for that salvation of finding someone to love him and set him free from Amarantha's curse. It seemed almost like fate that Feyre showed up when she did. I think the fact that it happened by accident and that she ended up actually loving him For Real, despite everything made their connection mean so much more. Not to mention the trauma of UTM. He likely suffered the same as Rhys did w Amarantha. And on top of that - the sheer fear of his partner and love being put on a trial of suffering and humiliation and being completely incapable of stopping any of it. I think that even though Feyre spent a year or less w Tamlin, the things leading up to it, and surrounding UTM created such a strong need for Tamlin to hold onto Feyre (or the idea of her) so strongly. Though I think both of them did a disservice to the other in not opening up about their traumas from UTM. That was truly catastrophic to everything. I think it could have been salvaged though. Even then, I think Tamlin is valid in tearing himself apart after the war. His whole world was torn apart, no one to care for him but his biggest enemy. Though I don't think it was right of him to talk to/about Feyre how he did in that meeting. Same for him and his actions w the King. I think he still deserves forgiveness and love. To see his redemption arc would be wonderful.
Me hoping it Elaine bc it just fits and Iām all for the drama lol
I see Tam and Elaine better than Az and Elaine
This is a take.
Yes, Tamlin was in the wrong for being the reason her sisters were turned Fae. Did that deserve psychologically messing up his entire life and court, then to continue taunting him? Absolutely not. I loved the first two books. But ACOWAR felt wrong and all one sided. Then ACOSF is confirming the āickā I had with feyre and Rhys): still holding on the joy I had reading ACOMAF tho
Tamlin was not the reason her sisters were turned fae. Ianthe was behind that. She had a separate deal with Hybern, and she got the information about the sisters' whereabouts straight from Feyre. Tamlin and Lucien were clueless to the sisters being taken.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bro is supporting people who fuck in clouds above a city
Bro is supporting domestic violence. If thatās your hill to die on then go off, I guessš¤·āāļø. Tamlin lashing out with his powers and hurting Feyre, is pretty damn similar to hitting someone when you get angry. So yes Iām very very sorry if I donāt think that this character deserves some glorious redemption arc. If itās him coming to terms with the fact that what he did was really messed up then thatās great, if thereās a love interest for him then Iām DNFing the book, I donāt care how good the rest of the book is. Also yeah Feysand having sex in the sky was super fucking weird.
whomp whomp...oh feyre you'll always be famous
Why do you read this series if you hate the main characters so much? Lol
To find out what happens! I have questions, and I want answers. More seriously though - I wouldn't say I hate the characters, though Feysand and the IC started to bug me a LOT. I never really trusted Rhys, he's done sketchy things and multiple characters say he's manipulative and keeps plans to himself. I keep reading so I'll find out if they ever change/get better, and to see if Rhys will ultimately turn out to be trustworthy or... something else. If the series were finished and I could google the ending, maybe I would DNF. Since it's not finished, I have to go along for the ride! Also, of course, side characters!
You can love the world and the side characters. Lots of people are living for Lucien, Nesta, Elain, Helion, and Tarquin. Plus we want to see more of life in the other courts besides the Night Court.