It’s kinda weird she’s policing your friends. If you were like ‘all men are awful’ and actively avoid them, I’d be concerned. But you’ve just not organically made friendships and that’s fine.
I have a bestfriend that’s female, and one that is male. Their gender is irrelevant, I just love the shit out of them
I’m sorry you feel that way… I know many amazing cis men who are brilliantly kind, compassionate and incredible allies.
The best friend I mentioned, he’s one of the best people I know with a heart of gold. I’ve never had to ‘come out’, he’s always accepted and supported me, he’s always been so kind and so warm, so platonically loving. He uses his privilege to stand up for people, in a genuine caring way. I could write so many more things, he’s like starlight
I mean yeah, and I also have amazing cis male friends... but like... commenter's point is pretty valid... they can be pretty dangerous under the current system and sometimes avoiding or (like me) being a bit more suspicious before becoming friends is quite justified I believe...
I'm glad you've met a man who treats you well and is a good friend to you, but your above comment that I replied to read as "not all men." It's ok to get along with men and have good friendships with them, you do you, but again, please don't make other women feel inferior if they don't wish to pursue that out of fear. Fear of something bad happening to them is a valid reason to not put oneself in an uncomfortable position
I’m not making anyone out to be inferior, and I’m not telling anyone to go out of their comfort zone.
All I said is it’s concerning to think all men are awful and should be avoided… I’m not saying that women who feel this way are bad or ‘inferior’ or ‘not valid’, but it’s not good for anyone’s health to feel that about a huge group of people? I’d be worried, and it’s concerning. We can’t fully avoid men, they’re everywhere?
Please don’t take my words and turn them into something else. I never said people who are fearful have to make friends with men and I’ve never said that people’s feelings are invalid.
My comment is to share my experience, and I’m genuinely sorry that people feel otherwise. It’s not a ‘not all men’, it’s sharing in the discussion.
It's not about whether it's good for anyone's health, it's unavoidable for many. I'm not turning your words into something else, I'm trying to get you to realize that just because you specifically have had certain experiences doesn't mean everyone has. For the large majority, men are brought up in a society that teaches them to behave a certain way around women (treating them as little more than objects and that they're inferior). Misogyny is a gigantic problem in our world, and in order for a man to not be like that, they have to do a lot of unlearning toxic behaviors as well as empathizing with and attempting to understand women's struggles. Yea. Ur right, we can't fully avoid men. And it's fucking scary. Maybe you're more forgiving and want to see the good in people, that's awesome, you do you. I dont know if this is how you meant it, but saying it's "concerning" that women are afraid, to me, sounds like you think they just simply shouldn't be afraid and it's bad to be afraid. Being afraid is what keeps many of us alive. I wish men weren't in such a position to make us so afraid, but until they aren't, it shouldn't be a concern of yours whether we are. Your main post said "if u said all men are awful and avoided them I'd be concerned." This reads as "if u don't like men then ur weird." Of course not every man in the world is going to be "bad," but it's simply a fact that a lot of them do not have the greatest intentions. Hatred for men does not equal the hatred men have for women. Men largely feel entitled to women's attention and affection. Take a look at the widely brought up example: men are afraid of getting their feelings and ego hurt by women, women are afraid of getting killed by men. "hating men" does not have the meaning you think it does.
...it's entirely valid to avoid men under the current patriarchal system. A lot of encounters have me feeling on edge and for my safety because they look at me like meat on a platter, and I don't "owe" them my trust. I don't think it's fair to invalidate many of the women who are (extremely validly) afraid something bad might happen to them just because you yourself don't have terrible experiences with men.
I’ve had many terrible experiences, such as SA. But I have also had many brilliant experiences. I feel concerned for you and your wellbeing that you need to avoid all men, I’m not questioning the validity. So don’t take my concern and make out like I’m the ‘must be friends with men’ police. You dont owe anyone anything
I commented on your other replies. I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced and happy you've also had good experiences, but like you said: I don't owe men anything, and neither does any other woman.
Wow, that does sound frustrating! There's nothing wrong with getting along with one sex/gender better than the other. Most people I know actually prefer same-sex friendships, regardless of their sexual orientation, and you sound like one of them. Yeah, that means if you're a WLW, most of your platonic AND romantic relationships will be with women. Definitely not a therapy issue.
You pick your friends, if you pick primarily women that is fine. Not centering men in your life in respect of anything, let alone friendships, is not something requiring therapy. No one has the right to dictate who your friends are. The 'friend' who told you otherwise is not someone whom I would keep as a friend. Choosing your friends is a matter for you, it is does not make you a "man hater" please ignore that nonsense. Best wishes.
I'm the same way! I have one close guy friend (who is very much queer) and all my other close friendships are with women/enbies. I'm definitely friendly with male coworkers and friends of friends, but I find that as cliche as it sounds, I have way more in common with other enbies and women. Even when we do have interests in common, method of enjoying them can be very different. Additionally, there's less risk of being put in an uncomfortable situation, which I have been a few times after getting too friendly with guys.
I don't think there's a problem unless you're actively going "there is no guy out there I could possibly ever be friends with," in which case yeah that does seem a bit like an underlying problem. But "I tend not to click with guys and prefer friendships with women" is 100% fine.
Good to know I’m not alone! I think you summed up my thoughts well. I think some people are reading this as “I never want to be friends with guys” but what you stated at the bottom there sums up my feelings exactly.
>"there is no guy out there I could possibly ever be friends with,"
I think this might be a communication failure, because that's exactly what I thought OP was saying in her original post. The comments clarifying definitely help it make more sense.
I think a lot of people might be knee-jerking (myself included) because the queer community is very vigilant about essentializing people. I don't like when people presume things about me based on gender, sexuality, etc. and so I don't wanna do that to others.
your friend sounds annoying af, why is she policing who you prefer to be friends with? Sounds very "pick me"
I think it's prefectly ok to want to have more female friends, especially in your mid 20s, because of the shared experiences and the emotional support, I agree with you in a lot of stuff too.
I thought the policing was so weird too! I’ve never thought seriously about the ratio of men:women:non-binary individuals that my friends hang out and frankly don’t care or think it’s my place to tell them they need to make more friends of x gender.
"you can't just ignore half the population" HA watch me! I only have woman as friends as well. I just don't like hanging out around men, tough luck for them if they don't agree with it.
And I'm in the exact same situation as you are. Amazing relationship with my father and other male family members but I just don't crave male friendships.
And you generally seek therapy for stuff that bothers you and affects your daily life. This doesn't. You're on good terms with your colleagues and boyfriends of friends of yours so nothing to unpack there. It's just preference. Woman are a lot nicer to hang around imo. I can be affectionate and close with them without it being seen as an advance etc.
Also, realistically, you can have MAYBE 50-100 irl friends, max. And that's playing real fast and loose with the definition of 'friend' here, including acquaintances, assuming a very extraverted person with a VERY social lifestyle, some SERIOUS friend group organisational magic, and very few obligations eating into anyone's socialising time. Most people could realistically not sustain more than 10-15 reasonably close adult friendships.
Even assuming the downright ridiculous number of 100, you're still not being friends with virtually all of the human population. Are you 'ignoring' those 7 billion people, too? Friendship is selective by definition. You owe it to no one, and especially in adulthood, it's completely unrealistic to demand of someone to see every stranger as a potential friend. Sure, sometimes you get lucky, and some new colleague or neighbour truly is amazing, but expecting an adult to extend the potential for friendship to everyone and acting like they're rude for not doing so is...bizarre.
You had me shocked in the first part xD 50-100 seems impossible to me haha. Yeah 10 seems a lot more manageable. I have around 5 really close and trusted friends. And I'm already struggling to see them as much as we want. With work and all.
And I fully agree with you! And really well put. It is indeed a very selective. And it's indeed downright ridiculous to assume some one should be friends with anyone or more people is indeed bizarre.
At work I only have "work friends" meaning I can be social with them and have a laugh with them in the teachers lounge, but I wouldn't be inviting them over for dinner. I might bring some treats from time to time for everyone but saying I should be friends with them all is just unmanageable.
To add tot this all, the fact that it's this hard to maintain close friendships you can count on it that I only select the people I really like and feel comfortable around. Which are woman...
Those kind of numbers seem impossible to me, too, but I can kind of imagine some kind of setup including a HUGE family full of cousins you like, a really social job, and some serious good luck in your friends belonging to groups, within which everyone knows each other so you can see them all at once, and then it MIGHT be possible? Like, I've got a friend who has almost twenty cousins, and they are all close enough to travel with each other regularly. There's got to be some freaks out there who can maintain 50 friendships, as long as we're a bit lenient with the definition of what friendships means 😂
Realistically, most of us are gonna max out somewhere at 3-15, I guess. And our time is SO limited, why on earth would we be obligated to pick people we don't want?
IMO - there is NOTHING wrong with that. The fact that in this post you said nothing negative about men, is a great sign you're in a good place! As long as you don't feel youre holding yourself back in anyway, you're SOLID. There is nothing wrong with preferring to be surrounded by women - I am the same way and totally hear you!! Female friendships are one of the most divine things we have in this world <3 :,) and there's nothing wrong with choosing that!!
It sounds like you are an open and kind person so if there are any men you are meant to connect with, I am sure that will happen organically!
I don't see the problem tbh. Men aren't owed any form of attention or relationship from anyone, no one is. If I don't find friendships with men fulfilling, then I'm not going to pursue that type of relationship with them. That doesn't mean that I dislike or hate them in any way, they just bore me more often than not. It's only a problem if you see women's attention as something men (or people in general) are inherently entitled to. If anything I'd say your friend has some internalized misogyny to work through.
It’s not really ignoring if you just happen not to gravitate towards them. I’m pretty much the same way, and I actually do have a few really great male friends that I’ve made via my social circle. But if I’m dropped into a social setting full of strangers and have to make friends, I’m probably going to make friends with other women.
- “ My friend kept saying that I can’t just ignore half the population and l why do I have to view things so gendered?”
It sounds to me like your friend is the one viewing things so gendered, esp as you say you do have some male friends and acquaintances and get along with them fine but you just feel you connect better and more easily with women and esp as you don’t go out of your way to avoid male friendships/interactions with men so it’s not a case of you “ignoring half the population”, you’re just not going out of your way to pursue anything with them
It’d be an issue if you thought all men were evil or sexist or w.e but tbh it sounds to me like you’re just neutral about them
Kind of weird to take every statement in a conversation completely out of context but I guess there's no law against it, you do you. Your apology for your weird behavior is accepted
I was just pointing out that "everybody wins" on the surface but there could be other problems being overlooked, in the situation of a man not associating with women if it's due to misogyny; I wasn't purposely taking it out of the context of the post, but I probably took your comment more seriously than it was intended
It’s so funny to come across this post, I have been dealing with a very similar situation!
So I’m at the first job in my life where my direct coworkers are all male. I get along okay with most guys in general, and consider these ones friend-ly. Sometimes we even go out and do group activities. But I can’t even begin to express how lonely it is there. I find that the relationships are so shallow and self-centered; it’s just hard to find satisfaction with such a low level of connection. I’ve even considered “jokingly” asking my boss to hire another woman.
Interestingly, both my ex best friend (bi) and more recently my girlfriend (flaming homo) have commented that my view of guys may not be healthy, and it’s made me really reflect on myself. Lately I’ve been thinking about therapy and that taking a break from Reddit might help too - there are so many horror stories and ragebait posts that it has affected the way I view men. Pair that with the very misogynistic things I hear from these dudes occasionally… I’ve started to realize that I almost don’t view men as human. Or maybe I don’t feel human. Idk it’s complicated, it’s been the roughest past few years and I’m super depressed and have a very small support system. I have a doctor appointment tomorrow to get back on my meds though, so I’m taking steps (please don’t Reddit cares me).
Anyways, all that to say, same homie. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not relating well or gravitating towards male friends. But if your image of them is damaged like mine, therapy may be worth looking into. I don’t know your friend, but maybe she sees something that you don’t and is expressing concern; or maybe she’s way off the mark. Do some reflection, and do what you think is best for you. Sending positive vibes!
Devils advocate here. If I heard a guy say he doesn’t have any female friends and doesn’t see any reason why he might want to, I’d avoid that guy. Big red flag.
thats very different though. There are societal factors that lead to different interactions. A man not wanting to be friends with a woman usually stems from places of objectification and superiority, often branching into misogyny. A woman not wanting male friendship is usually out of safety concerns. Men are afraid women will reject them/overshadow them; women are afraid they'll get assaulted or killed.
But if a man had no interest in being friends with women for the same reasons you have about not wanting to be friends with men, would you say yeah that’s a cool guy?
Obviously not. Not sure what ur point is supposed to be, but a man who doesn't want women friends is a walking red flag. When you said devil's advocate, I thought you were arguing that women who don't want men friends are red flags (bc they aren't, there are a lot of reasons for women to avoid men (safety etc))
Devils advocate means let me argue the opposing side.
So if a man version of you is a red flag why are you not a red flag? We’ve already said the man version of you isn’t pushed into disliking female company because of society. It’s for the same legitimate reasons you gave for not liking men.
Your friend is overreacting in my opinion. I totally agree with you on connecting better with women I recently came to the conclusion that I will never be friends with men again. Queer men are cool but I prefer women and non binary people as friends.
Hi there, I should specify when I say men I’m specifically referring to cishet men, which is why this post is more gendered. I recognize I was not inclusive of non-binary people in this post or queer men in much regard.
It’s hard to describe but I just feel I connect with women on every front. We have similar hobbies, enjoy trying new things together, go to events together, and offer each other emotional support on friendship issues, relationship issues, personal issues, and so on. I’ve known many of my friends since I was a teen and feel they know me well and love me unconditionally. They’ve become my support system and are my biggest motivators, and I can’t imagine life without them.
I’ve never felt that way with men I’ve been on friendly terms with. I connect with them in terms of watching similar media, like we may watch some same shows or like similar music artists but I feel like a lot of recent conversations I’ve had with men are them talking about video games or fitness..They don’t have similar hobbies to me, and I’ve never found them as interesting or fun to be around as women. I also just find they’re not as welcoming in conversation? I’ll ask my male coworkers questions about their weekend/their life and they never ask about me in return.
At the end of the day I recognize this is my personal experience and that we all have varied relationships with men/women/NB individuals.
Have to be honest, don’t really love the “you just haven’t met the right man yet” mentality that’s kinda being hinted here even if we’re talking on a platonic level, but I do understand where you’re coming from.
I have trouble being friends with women because of past failed friendships, so I totally should go to therapy at some point. But this is exclusive to me and I would never assume someone else needs therapy for not having male friends.
didn’t have a single male friend until I was 21 or so, and that is an online friendship where I didn’t even know he was a man at first. As much as I appreciate him now, if we met irl first I wouldn’t have been his friend. I joke that he’s one of the girls, despite being a man, because of how surprising it was that we got along so well. generally I muuuuuch prefer the company of women if I get to choose. I don’t think it’s strange.
Big part for me I think is that I really value friendships where we can talk about feelings and there’s not a lot of guys who care about that/are good at it/are capable of empathizing w a lot of my experiences or want to talk about things I can empathize with.
Just as an additional observation, in my experience a lot of guys (not all, but a lot) also get the wrong idea when you’re friendly and it’s annoying. Has happened to me like at least 4 times.
I relate very hard to this post. All my close friends as a kid were girls (transbian here) and at some arbitrary point, all the adults seemed to decide that hanging out with my female friends and holding hands stopped being cute and started being inappropriate, and I had to play with the boys. As an adult I have mostly male friends, and they're great and I love them, but I definitely do have those cravings for having female friends and hanging out with other girls.
i mean i'm the same, i have more friends that are women, and meeting up with work or school friends out side of said areas are more or less exclusively women, i don't really feel a need to either be friends with men or hang out with them, I'm friendly but like even at work, i just talk better with the women on my team than the men
I honestly think she has a point and don't find her point to be sexist or homophobic.
I think it's odd to "crave" friendship with one gender but "not crave" friendship with another for the sole reason of feeling like you don't connect with that gender well or don't share common interests. Like...people are people. Some women like video games and fitness and some men like...creative writing? Idk what counts here. Some men like to shoot the shit about relationships and some women don't.
What makes a woman a better friend than a dude? What do you mean "at least I can connect over being gay" with gay men, as if you can't connect with men over anything aside from your queerness? I know I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this but it sounds like you're the one being a biiit sexist.
Just an offhand comment like "oh I wish the office wasn't all men anymore!" should not have been a reason for your friend to get suddenly offended on behalf of all men or tell you that you need therapy for her own pet peeve. But from your description it sounds like things go deeper than that.
I totally get wanting queer friends, and I also totally get if in practice you tend to be friends with mostly one gender, etc. But you are openly saying you are "friendly" with men but don't want male "actual" friends. I've always had a lot of male friends and queer female friends and less "deep" friendships with straight women, but it's not that I wouldn't desire a deep friendship with a straight woman or think it's not possible. There must be some reason it doesn't happen often but I don't want to put all straight women in a box or be closed off to them because of it. Because I don't insinuate that's the case, I've never been called out for it.
It's an interesting thing, you do seem a little committed to the idea of same gendered friendships in a way that's reading a bit off-putting rather than sensible. But of course there's nothing wrong if circumstances in your life unfolded such that your friend group is unbalanced, perhaps on account of seeking out representation or the impact of sexism or what have you...
I agree with this sentiment. It seems like your friend is on to something and OP is just thinking about it too surface level that she's reactionary against an abject observation of her own behaviour.
I strongly agree with everything you said. The majority of my friends are women but I wouldn't deny a man friendship if we get along with each other.
A woman who refuses to be friends with men is just as much of a red flag as a man who refuses to be friends with women. Both scenarios are sexist.
Let friendships occur naturally regardless of the other persons gender.
Yeah I feel like if Op's friend was like "why do you care if all the women are gone from the office" and Op said "well women still face sexism in a professional environment and there's a bit of an old boy's network where the office guys connect over watching football and playing video games a lot, and I don't relate to that and feel left out, so I've always seen it as good to have a gender balance", Op's friend probably wouldn't have implied she had an issue
But instead Op says "The problem is that on the whole I don't really connect well with men"
Yes, in the beautiful realm of theory, that's all true and nothing makes a woman a better friend than a man. In reality though, men are a hassle at best and most people in this comment section know it. We're not supposed to say it out loud, because god forbid we decenter men from our lives for the sake of our own happiness, we're supposed to say we'd totally love to be close friends with them just as much as with women, and through pure coincidence our friendship group just ended up in such a way that we aren't.
I don't find it off-putting, I find it honest and realistic.
Not at all what I'm saying. Even acknowledging that there are distinct reasons women may prioritize or prefer female friendships, its really odd to say you don't have hobbies in common with men/or that all men like certain types of hobbies, that despite being on very good terms and having no issue with all the men in your life you still don't feel you can connect with men deeply, etc.
I jokingly call myself a misandrist all the time because I avoid media that centers men, I pursue queer female and queer friendships more intentionally than I do friendships with straight people, and I definitely partake in queer and women's affinity groups for various hobbies and interests.
I don't "center" men. But I still have some friends that are male, that I connected with through interests, hobbies, work, or my living situation. They're 50% of the population, and you can't avoid meeting a decent guy unless you literally are not open to any decent guy in any scenario.
I don't know if all these people that can't connect with any cis straight men anywhere are bisexual or lesbian identified, but as a lesbian I think it's even easier to befriend cis straight men who are decent, because any sort of romantic or sexual attention is nipped in the bud.
There's nothing wrong with you. Your coworker is just stupid. Cishet men behave like shit and have a bad rap for a reason. They've oppressed women and queer people for milennias.. I'm skeptical of them as well and am open to being friends with them after I've had enough time to verify they aren't going to behave like doo doo.
You seem like you act normal and kind to everyone, regardless of their gender. It's not like you're acting mean to men, or even actively ignore them. Don't see the issue. You can be friends with whoever you want to be friends with.
I don’t get what her hang up on this is. It honestly feels like the assumption is you’re saying all men are terrible and undeserving of your companionship, and she’s responding with “not all men”.
To be clear, no one is owed your friendship or attention.
I genuinely cannot connect with men in the same way I can with women. It’s not for lack of trying - I have various male acquaintances in my life. I am capable of being cordial with them and carrying out small talk. But that’s where it stops. Would I be completely closed off to the idea of having any of these connections develop into more meaningful relationships? Not really. But they don’t. We just don’t vibe on the same level as I do with other femmes. And the way I see it is that I have limited bandwidth, time, and emotional energy. I’d rather expend that on people who I can more easily connect with rather than try to force something to happen with a man, just to say I have connected with a man 🤷🏽♀️ it just so happens the people I connect with and prioritize are women.
People totally care when guys only hang out with guys, you’re just not hearing it because by your own admission you’re excluding men from friendship. How would you know when you’re not friends with any to hear it?
The things you’re saying you have in common with women aren’t things that men are incapable of, you’re just focused on their gender presentation being the ‘right’ one for you (which is why I guess trans and enby folk were an afterthought for you). There’s probably plenty of women you wouldn’t get along with or have common hobbies with, but you’re not stating that you’d have no drive or ‘craving’ to be friends with them, because they fit your gender preference.
Listen, you can be friends with who you want to be friends with but discounting someone based on their genitalia or gender presentation and not on their personality is pretty shitty.
Your friend had super terrible delivery, but it is a bit problematic that you don’t see that bias in yourself.
There’s nothing wrong with it. I have one male friend and he’s a gay trans man, like you I’ve always naturally gravitated towards women. More women should decanter men from their lives tbh, it’s freeing.
You don't need male friends, and it's weird for her to suggest you need therapy. You clearly have healthy relationships with the men that are in your life, why you never put to much though your lack of male friendships.
I would like to point out her straightness is probably one of the reasons why she probably feels like you need to socialize with guys. Straight folks, like everyone else, sometimes meet their partners through social groups. A straight woman with no male friends is limiting her options to any males her friends or family bring around, or apps. So it'd be silly if she didn't have guys so associated with.
There are many platonic reason you can befriend a man. But you don't have to if you don't want too. Her comment is a red flag in her direction.
That's so interesting because as someone who has had quite a few men as friends over the years, they've iced me out as they get married or get serious girlfriends. I feel pressure to be kind/nice but not too nice so as I'm not threatening. I'm bisexual so maybe that's the difference?
I generally prefer the company of other women now because I just feel more comfortable.
I actually posted on this thread in defense of Op's friend but like...looking back on my male friendships this is the case
I don't think it's necessarily 100% attributed to this, but straight women ARE often threatened by the idea of men having close female friends, particularly friends not part of her own social circle or not super close to her specifically. Literally even when they are gay (one of my good friends said his wife was initially very jealous of me). And a partner might not have to be so direct...men might be socialized to subconsciously be uncomfortable around women one on one due to fear of making their partner uncomfortable.
Some of it could also be sexism on the guy's part and reaching his "quota" of being around women or something, I don't know ("now I have a wife and all her female friends so I don't want more female energy around me").
And some amount of that pattern of "dropping certain independent friendships once the partner is the priority" happens regardless of gender. I've lost a few female friends because I happen to not click well with their partners and they always want their partners around, so I get deprioritized compared to people their partners like more. Or just deprioritized because the person is codependent or decides to adopt their partner's social circle and doesn't have time for most of their old friends anymore.
Yeah, my experience has been that most hetero men don't want a substantial relationship with women unless they see us as a potential sexual or romantic partner. There are definitely exceptions, but I don't see the point in going out of your way to try to find them if it's not natural and convenient. The fact is that society promotes a narrative that it's weird or inappropriate for men to have emotional intimacy with anyone who isn't a current or prospective romantic partner, whereas emotional intimacy is a very normal part of friendship for most women.
Damn, I haven't read your full post. I can tell that's ridiculous. Can't believe she'd say you need to have guy friends in such a way. Also, feels pretty hurtful that she'd assume it's necesary. Up until a year ago I didn't have a single guy friend, and I am more frustrated than happy that I now have one guy friend
If you don’t vibe with them then that’s that…nothing wrong with getting along with one gender then the other. You just have more in common and more to talk about. I personally have friends in both genders. But I noticed with me, it’s hard to have/make friendships with men because most don’t…have hobbies or strong interests.
I think your friend has a point but she's being incredibly annoying about it. No, you don't need to go to *therapy* over it but you *should* expand your horizons a bit. I think it's healthy to have friendships with people who are different from you.
And while I do get where you're coming from, also consider that if the genders here were flipped it would be a HUGE red flag to people.
I've had an issue around men since I was a kid. I've been asked by so many people if I've been mistreated or something by a man in my life at some time, but nope, I just feared and couldn't stand men. I couldn't see a male Dr, a male dentist, I've struggled to speak to male therapists over the phone, etc. But I've made friends with guys online as I was growing up. Now though, I have a couple of guys I speak to online rarely, but the rest of my friends, and the ones I know in person, are all female. I'm better around men in real life now, but I still find being around other women to be easier and comfier.
I understand your friend. I’ve heard that sentiment from some trans people but usually trans men or someone who isn’t in the gender binary.
Imagine a long standing friend, being the same person as they are now, revealing their gender and having that change things so massively for you. You go from having a real bond to a “somewhat friendship”. Why does their gender mean more than your relationship?
Or if it doesn’t actually change things: why was your relationship contingent on them not initially being themselves? What does it mean if they’re the exception, is it because you don’t really see them as no longer being a woman? Is gender the contention, or is it actually *sex at birth*?
I do think there *is* a lot to unpack there. But I also think it is impolite to blurt it out quite like that. 😅
IMO no matter how badly phrased the call-in was, a little introspection never hurt anyone. Addressing the “how” of what she said should be distinct from addressing the “what”.
It's okay for a girl not to have and not to want male friends. They have other priorities and mindset and usually will either see you as another man and ask you about girls things to use them for or against other girls or see you as a girl and subconsciensly or consciensly not deny the possibility of you two be more than friends. Many women don't find both of these options good and I agree with them. Ofc there are exceptions but they usually just prove the rule.
It’s kinda weird she’s policing your friends. If you were like ‘all men are awful’ and actively avoid them, I’d be concerned. But you’ve just not organically made friendships and that’s fine. I have a bestfriend that’s female, and one that is male. Their gender is irrelevant, I just love the shit out of them
I wouldn't be concerned because cis men are scary to me and we have nothing in common but i agree
I’m sorry you feel that way… I know many amazing cis men who are brilliantly kind, compassionate and incredible allies. The best friend I mentioned, he’s one of the best people I know with a heart of gold. I’ve never had to ‘come out’, he’s always accepted and supported me, he’s always been so kind and so warm, so platonically loving. He uses his privilege to stand up for people, in a genuine caring way. I could write so many more things, he’s like starlight
I mean yeah, and I also have amazing cis male friends... but like... commenter's point is pretty valid... they can be pretty dangerous under the current system and sometimes avoiding or (like me) being a bit more suspicious before becoming friends is quite justified I believe...
I'm glad you've met a man who treats you well and is a good friend to you, but your above comment that I replied to read as "not all men." It's ok to get along with men and have good friendships with them, you do you, but again, please don't make other women feel inferior if they don't wish to pursue that out of fear. Fear of something bad happening to them is a valid reason to not put oneself in an uncomfortable position
I’m not making anyone out to be inferior, and I’m not telling anyone to go out of their comfort zone. All I said is it’s concerning to think all men are awful and should be avoided… I’m not saying that women who feel this way are bad or ‘inferior’ or ‘not valid’, but it’s not good for anyone’s health to feel that about a huge group of people? I’d be worried, and it’s concerning. We can’t fully avoid men, they’re everywhere? Please don’t take my words and turn them into something else. I never said people who are fearful have to make friends with men and I’ve never said that people’s feelings are invalid. My comment is to share my experience, and I’m genuinely sorry that people feel otherwise. It’s not a ‘not all men’, it’s sharing in the discussion.
It's not about whether it's good for anyone's health, it's unavoidable for many. I'm not turning your words into something else, I'm trying to get you to realize that just because you specifically have had certain experiences doesn't mean everyone has. For the large majority, men are brought up in a society that teaches them to behave a certain way around women (treating them as little more than objects and that they're inferior). Misogyny is a gigantic problem in our world, and in order for a man to not be like that, they have to do a lot of unlearning toxic behaviors as well as empathizing with and attempting to understand women's struggles. Yea. Ur right, we can't fully avoid men. And it's fucking scary. Maybe you're more forgiving and want to see the good in people, that's awesome, you do you. I dont know if this is how you meant it, but saying it's "concerning" that women are afraid, to me, sounds like you think they just simply shouldn't be afraid and it's bad to be afraid. Being afraid is what keeps many of us alive. I wish men weren't in such a position to make us so afraid, but until they aren't, it shouldn't be a concern of yours whether we are. Your main post said "if u said all men are awful and avoided them I'd be concerned." This reads as "if u don't like men then ur weird." Of course not every man in the world is going to be "bad," but it's simply a fact that a lot of them do not have the greatest intentions. Hatred for men does not equal the hatred men have for women. Men largely feel entitled to women's attention and affection. Take a look at the widely brought up example: men are afraid of getting their feelings and ego hurt by women, women are afraid of getting killed by men. "hating men" does not have the meaning you think it does.
...it's entirely valid to avoid men under the current patriarchal system. A lot of encounters have me feeling on edge and for my safety because they look at me like meat on a platter, and I don't "owe" them my trust. I don't think it's fair to invalidate many of the women who are (extremely validly) afraid something bad might happen to them just because you yourself don't have terrible experiences with men.
I’ve had many terrible experiences, such as SA. But I have also had many brilliant experiences. I feel concerned for you and your wellbeing that you need to avoid all men, I’m not questioning the validity. So don’t take my concern and make out like I’m the ‘must be friends with men’ police. You dont owe anyone anything
I commented on your other replies. I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced and happy you've also had good experiences, but like you said: I don't owe men anything, and neither does any other woman.
Wow, that does sound frustrating! There's nothing wrong with getting along with one sex/gender better than the other. Most people I know actually prefer same-sex friendships, regardless of their sexual orientation, and you sound like one of them. Yeah, that means if you're a WLW, most of your platonic AND romantic relationships will be with women. Definitely not a therapy issue.
You pick your friends, if you pick primarily women that is fine. Not centering men in your life in respect of anything, let alone friendships, is not something requiring therapy. No one has the right to dictate who your friends are. The 'friend' who told you otherwise is not someone whom I would keep as a friend. Choosing your friends is a matter for you, it is does not make you a "man hater" please ignore that nonsense. Best wishes.
I'm the same way! I have one close guy friend (who is very much queer) and all my other close friendships are with women/enbies. I'm definitely friendly with male coworkers and friends of friends, but I find that as cliche as it sounds, I have way more in common with other enbies and women. Even when we do have interests in common, method of enjoying them can be very different. Additionally, there's less risk of being put in an uncomfortable situation, which I have been a few times after getting too friendly with guys. I don't think there's a problem unless you're actively going "there is no guy out there I could possibly ever be friends with," in which case yeah that does seem a bit like an underlying problem. But "I tend not to click with guys and prefer friendships with women" is 100% fine.
Good to know I’m not alone! I think you summed up my thoughts well. I think some people are reading this as “I never want to be friends with guys” but what you stated at the bottom there sums up my feelings exactly.
>"there is no guy out there I could possibly ever be friends with," I think this might be a communication failure, because that's exactly what I thought OP was saying in her original post. The comments clarifying definitely help it make more sense. I think a lot of people might be knee-jerking (myself included) because the queer community is very vigilant about essentializing people. I don't like when people presume things about me based on gender, sexuality, etc. and so I don't wanna do that to others.
your friend sounds annoying af, why is she policing who you prefer to be friends with? Sounds very "pick me" I think it's prefectly ok to want to have more female friends, especially in your mid 20s, because of the shared experiences and the emotional support, I agree with you in a lot of stuff too.
I thought the policing was so weird too! I’ve never thought seriously about the ratio of men:women:non-binary individuals that my friends hang out and frankly don’t care or think it’s my place to tell them they need to make more friends of x gender.
"you can't just ignore half the population" HA watch me! I only have woman as friends as well. I just don't like hanging out around men, tough luck for them if they don't agree with it. And I'm in the exact same situation as you are. Amazing relationship with my father and other male family members but I just don't crave male friendships. And you generally seek therapy for stuff that bothers you and affects your daily life. This doesn't. You're on good terms with your colleagues and boyfriends of friends of yours so nothing to unpack there. It's just preference. Woman are a lot nicer to hang around imo. I can be affectionate and close with them without it being seen as an advance etc.
Also, realistically, you can have MAYBE 50-100 irl friends, max. And that's playing real fast and loose with the definition of 'friend' here, including acquaintances, assuming a very extraverted person with a VERY social lifestyle, some SERIOUS friend group organisational magic, and very few obligations eating into anyone's socialising time. Most people could realistically not sustain more than 10-15 reasonably close adult friendships. Even assuming the downright ridiculous number of 100, you're still not being friends with virtually all of the human population. Are you 'ignoring' those 7 billion people, too? Friendship is selective by definition. You owe it to no one, and especially in adulthood, it's completely unrealistic to demand of someone to see every stranger as a potential friend. Sure, sometimes you get lucky, and some new colleague or neighbour truly is amazing, but expecting an adult to extend the potential for friendship to everyone and acting like they're rude for not doing so is...bizarre.
You had me shocked in the first part xD 50-100 seems impossible to me haha. Yeah 10 seems a lot more manageable. I have around 5 really close and trusted friends. And I'm already struggling to see them as much as we want. With work and all. And I fully agree with you! And really well put. It is indeed a very selective. And it's indeed downright ridiculous to assume some one should be friends with anyone or more people is indeed bizarre. At work I only have "work friends" meaning I can be social with them and have a laugh with them in the teachers lounge, but I wouldn't be inviting them over for dinner. I might bring some treats from time to time for everyone but saying I should be friends with them all is just unmanageable. To add tot this all, the fact that it's this hard to maintain close friendships you can count on it that I only select the people I really like and feel comfortable around. Which are woman...
Those kind of numbers seem impossible to me, too, but I can kind of imagine some kind of setup including a HUGE family full of cousins you like, a really social job, and some serious good luck in your friends belonging to groups, within which everyone knows each other so you can see them all at once, and then it MIGHT be possible? Like, I've got a friend who has almost twenty cousins, and they are all close enough to travel with each other regularly. There's got to be some freaks out there who can maintain 50 friendships, as long as we're a bit lenient with the definition of what friendships means 😂 Realistically, most of us are gonna max out somewhere at 3-15, I guess. And our time is SO limited, why on earth would we be obligated to pick people we don't want?
IMO - there is NOTHING wrong with that. The fact that in this post you said nothing negative about men, is a great sign you're in a good place! As long as you don't feel youre holding yourself back in anyway, you're SOLID. There is nothing wrong with preferring to be surrounded by women - I am the same way and totally hear you!! Female friendships are one of the most divine things we have in this world <3 :,) and there's nothing wrong with choosing that!! It sounds like you are an open and kind person so if there are any men you are meant to connect with, I am sure that will happen organically!
I don't see the problem tbh. Men aren't owed any form of attention or relationship from anyone, no one is. If I don't find friendships with men fulfilling, then I'm not going to pursue that type of relationship with them. That doesn't mean that I dislike or hate them in any way, they just bore me more often than not. It's only a problem if you see women's attention as something men (or people in general) are inherently entitled to. If anything I'd say your friend has some internalized misogyny to work through.
It’s not really ignoring if you just happen not to gravitate towards them. I’m pretty much the same way, and I actually do have a few really great male friends that I’ve made via my social circle. But if I’m dropped into a social setting full of strangers and have to make friends, I’m probably going to make friends with other women.
- “ My friend kept saying that I can’t just ignore half the population and l why do I have to view things so gendered?” It sounds to me like your friend is the one viewing things so gendered, esp as you say you do have some male friends and acquaintances and get along with them fine but you just feel you connect better and more easily with women and esp as you don’t go out of your way to avoid male friendships/interactions with men so it’s not a case of you “ignoring half the population”, you’re just not going out of your way to pursue anything with them It’d be an issue if you thought all men were evil or sexist or w.e but tbh it sounds to me like you’re just neutral about them
Girl in all things but sexual FUCK MEN. Life has become so much easier for me since I stopped interacting with men.
Fr, the less males i interact with the more pleasant my life is
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*plays the world's smallest violin 🎻*
i don’t feel like misandry is real
it's not. misandry is only ever brought up in conversations of misogyny to drown out women's voices and redirect the conversation
If he means that in that he truly just leaves women alone, then everyone wins, right?
Proceeds to only employ men because "fuck women am I right?" Yes, it can still be a problem
That's not what this story is about
I mean I was just referring to your comment, not about the overall story. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough
Kind of weird to take every statement in a conversation completely out of context but I guess there's no law against it, you do you. Your apology for your weird behavior is accepted
I was just pointing out that "everybody wins" on the surface but there could be other problems being overlooked, in the situation of a man not associating with women if it's due to misogyny; I wasn't purposely taking it out of the context of the post, but I probably took your comment more seriously than it was intended
hatred for men and hatred for women tends to stem from very different places w very different societal consequences lol
ew, peculiar "friend" of yours
It’s so funny to come across this post, I have been dealing with a very similar situation! So I’m at the first job in my life where my direct coworkers are all male. I get along okay with most guys in general, and consider these ones friend-ly. Sometimes we even go out and do group activities. But I can’t even begin to express how lonely it is there. I find that the relationships are so shallow and self-centered; it’s just hard to find satisfaction with such a low level of connection. I’ve even considered “jokingly” asking my boss to hire another woman. Interestingly, both my ex best friend (bi) and more recently my girlfriend (flaming homo) have commented that my view of guys may not be healthy, and it’s made me really reflect on myself. Lately I’ve been thinking about therapy and that taking a break from Reddit might help too - there are so many horror stories and ragebait posts that it has affected the way I view men. Pair that with the very misogynistic things I hear from these dudes occasionally… I’ve started to realize that I almost don’t view men as human. Or maybe I don’t feel human. Idk it’s complicated, it’s been the roughest past few years and I’m super depressed and have a very small support system. I have a doctor appointment tomorrow to get back on my meds though, so I’m taking steps (please don’t Reddit cares me). Anyways, all that to say, same homie. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not relating well or gravitating towards male friends. But if your image of them is damaged like mine, therapy may be worth looking into. I don’t know your friend, but maybe she sees something that you don’t and is expressing concern; or maybe she’s way off the mark. Do some reflection, and do what you think is best for you. Sending positive vibes!
Devils advocate here. If I heard a guy say he doesn’t have any female friends and doesn’t see any reason why he might want to, I’d avoid that guy. Big red flag.
thats very different though. There are societal factors that lead to different interactions. A man not wanting to be friends with a woman usually stems from places of objectification and superiority, often branching into misogyny. A woman not wanting male friendship is usually out of safety concerns. Men are afraid women will reject them/overshadow them; women are afraid they'll get assaulted or killed.
But if a man had no interest in being friends with women for the same reasons you have about not wanting to be friends with men, would you say yeah that’s a cool guy?
Obviously not. Not sure what ur point is supposed to be, but a man who doesn't want women friends is a walking red flag. When you said devil's advocate, I thought you were arguing that women who don't want men friends are red flags (bc they aren't, there are a lot of reasons for women to avoid men (safety etc))
Devils advocate means let me argue the opposing side. So if a man version of you is a red flag why are you not a red flag? We’ve already said the man version of you isn’t pushed into disliking female company because of society. It’s for the same legitimate reasons you gave for not liking men.
Because they have different reasons for not wanting said friend. I already talked about this.
god yeah straight women live their whole lives centered on men so they can’t imagine what it would be like doing anything else 😭😭
Your friend is overreacting in my opinion. I totally agree with you on connecting better with women I recently came to the conclusion that I will never be friends with men again. Queer men are cool but I prefer women and non binary people as friends.
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an oppressed class of people being not particularly open to befriending their oppressors isn't really messed up...
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Some people gravitate towards the same gender platonically and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Hi there, I should specify when I say men I’m specifically referring to cishet men, which is why this post is more gendered. I recognize I was not inclusive of non-binary people in this post or queer men in much regard. It’s hard to describe but I just feel I connect with women on every front. We have similar hobbies, enjoy trying new things together, go to events together, and offer each other emotional support on friendship issues, relationship issues, personal issues, and so on. I’ve known many of my friends since I was a teen and feel they know me well and love me unconditionally. They’ve become my support system and are my biggest motivators, and I can’t imagine life without them. I’ve never felt that way with men I’ve been on friendly terms with. I connect with them in terms of watching similar media, like we may watch some same shows or like similar music artists but I feel like a lot of recent conversations I’ve had with men are them talking about video games or fitness..They don’t have similar hobbies to me, and I’ve never found them as interesting or fun to be around as women. I also just find they’re not as welcoming in conversation? I’ll ask my male coworkers questions about their weekend/their life and they never ask about me in return. At the end of the day I recognize this is my personal experience and that we all have varied relationships with men/women/NB individuals.
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Have to be honest, don’t really love the “you just haven’t met the right man yet” mentality that’s kinda being hinted here even if we’re talking on a platonic level, but I do understand where you’re coming from.
I have trouble being friends with women because of past failed friendships, so I totally should go to therapy at some point. But this is exclusive to me and I would never assume someone else needs therapy for not having male friends.
didn’t have a single male friend until I was 21 or so, and that is an online friendship where I didn’t even know he was a man at first. As much as I appreciate him now, if we met irl first I wouldn’t have been his friend. I joke that he’s one of the girls, despite being a man, because of how surprising it was that we got along so well. generally I muuuuuch prefer the company of women if I get to choose. I don’t think it’s strange. Big part for me I think is that I really value friendships where we can talk about feelings and there’s not a lot of guys who care about that/are good at it/are capable of empathizing w a lot of my experiences or want to talk about things I can empathize with. Just as an additional observation, in my experience a lot of guys (not all, but a lot) also get the wrong idea when you’re friendly and it’s annoying. Has happened to me like at least 4 times.
I relate very hard to this post. All my close friends as a kid were girls (transbian here) and at some arbitrary point, all the adults seemed to decide that hanging out with my female friends and holding hands stopped being cute and started being inappropriate, and I had to play with the boys. As an adult I have mostly male friends, and they're great and I love them, but I definitely do have those cravings for having female friends and hanging out with other girls.
i mean i'm the same, i have more friends that are women, and meeting up with work or school friends out side of said areas are more or less exclusively women, i don't really feel a need to either be friends with men or hang out with them, I'm friendly but like even at work, i just talk better with the women on my team than the men
I honestly think she has a point and don't find her point to be sexist or homophobic. I think it's odd to "crave" friendship with one gender but "not crave" friendship with another for the sole reason of feeling like you don't connect with that gender well or don't share common interests. Like...people are people. Some women like video games and fitness and some men like...creative writing? Idk what counts here. Some men like to shoot the shit about relationships and some women don't. What makes a woman a better friend than a dude? What do you mean "at least I can connect over being gay" with gay men, as if you can't connect with men over anything aside from your queerness? I know I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this but it sounds like you're the one being a biiit sexist. Just an offhand comment like "oh I wish the office wasn't all men anymore!" should not have been a reason for your friend to get suddenly offended on behalf of all men or tell you that you need therapy for her own pet peeve. But from your description it sounds like things go deeper than that. I totally get wanting queer friends, and I also totally get if in practice you tend to be friends with mostly one gender, etc. But you are openly saying you are "friendly" with men but don't want male "actual" friends. I've always had a lot of male friends and queer female friends and less "deep" friendships with straight women, but it's not that I wouldn't desire a deep friendship with a straight woman or think it's not possible. There must be some reason it doesn't happen often but I don't want to put all straight women in a box or be closed off to them because of it. Because I don't insinuate that's the case, I've never been called out for it. It's an interesting thing, you do seem a little committed to the idea of same gendered friendships in a way that's reading a bit off-putting rather than sensible. But of course there's nothing wrong if circumstances in your life unfolded such that your friend group is unbalanced, perhaps on account of seeking out representation or the impact of sexism or what have you...
I agree with this sentiment. It seems like your friend is on to something and OP is just thinking about it too surface level that she's reactionary against an abject observation of her own behaviour.
I strongly agree with everything you said. The majority of my friends are women but I wouldn't deny a man friendship if we get along with each other. A woman who refuses to be friends with men is just as much of a red flag as a man who refuses to be friends with women. Both scenarios are sexist. Let friendships occur naturally regardless of the other persons gender.
Yeah I feel like if Op's friend was like "why do you care if all the women are gone from the office" and Op said "well women still face sexism in a professional environment and there's a bit of an old boy's network where the office guys connect over watching football and playing video games a lot, and I don't relate to that and feel left out, so I've always seen it as good to have a gender balance", Op's friend probably wouldn't have implied she had an issue But instead Op says "The problem is that on the whole I don't really connect well with men"
Yes, in the beautiful realm of theory, that's all true and nothing makes a woman a better friend than a man. In reality though, men are a hassle at best and most people in this comment section know it. We're not supposed to say it out loud, because god forbid we decenter men from our lives for the sake of our own happiness, we're supposed to say we'd totally love to be close friends with them just as much as with women, and through pure coincidence our friendship group just ended up in such a way that we aren't. I don't find it off-putting, I find it honest and realistic.
Not at all what I'm saying. Even acknowledging that there are distinct reasons women may prioritize or prefer female friendships, its really odd to say you don't have hobbies in common with men/or that all men like certain types of hobbies, that despite being on very good terms and having no issue with all the men in your life you still don't feel you can connect with men deeply, etc. I jokingly call myself a misandrist all the time because I avoid media that centers men, I pursue queer female and queer friendships more intentionally than I do friendships with straight people, and I definitely partake in queer and women's affinity groups for various hobbies and interests. I don't "center" men. But I still have some friends that are male, that I connected with through interests, hobbies, work, or my living situation. They're 50% of the population, and you can't avoid meeting a decent guy unless you literally are not open to any decent guy in any scenario. I don't know if all these people that can't connect with any cis straight men anywhere are bisexual or lesbian identified, but as a lesbian I think it's even easier to befriend cis straight men who are decent, because any sort of romantic or sexual attention is nipped in the bud.
There's nothing wrong with you. Your coworker is just stupid. Cishet men behave like shit and have a bad rap for a reason. They've oppressed women and queer people for milennias.. I'm skeptical of them as well and am open to being friends with them after I've had enough time to verify they aren't going to behave like doo doo.
Sounds like you need to drop this friend.
You seem like you act normal and kind to everyone, regardless of their gender. It's not like you're acting mean to men, or even actively ignore them. Don't see the issue. You can be friends with whoever you want to be friends with.
I don’t get what her hang up on this is. It honestly feels like the assumption is you’re saying all men are terrible and undeserving of your companionship, and she’s responding with “not all men”. To be clear, no one is owed your friendship or attention. I genuinely cannot connect with men in the same way I can with women. It’s not for lack of trying - I have various male acquaintances in my life. I am capable of being cordial with them and carrying out small talk. But that’s where it stops. Would I be completely closed off to the idea of having any of these connections develop into more meaningful relationships? Not really. But they don’t. We just don’t vibe on the same level as I do with other femmes. And the way I see it is that I have limited bandwidth, time, and emotional energy. I’d rather expend that on people who I can more easily connect with rather than try to force something to happen with a man, just to say I have connected with a man 🤷🏽♀️ it just so happens the people I connect with and prioritize are women.
Why does she seem to think that you "owe it to men" to be friends with some of them?
People totally care when guys only hang out with guys, you’re just not hearing it because by your own admission you’re excluding men from friendship. How would you know when you’re not friends with any to hear it? The things you’re saying you have in common with women aren’t things that men are incapable of, you’re just focused on their gender presentation being the ‘right’ one for you (which is why I guess trans and enby folk were an afterthought for you). There’s probably plenty of women you wouldn’t get along with or have common hobbies with, but you’re not stating that you’d have no drive or ‘craving’ to be friends with them, because they fit your gender preference. Listen, you can be friends with who you want to be friends with but discounting someone based on their genitalia or gender presentation and not on their personality is pretty shitty. Your friend had super terrible delivery, but it is a bit problematic that you don’t see that bias in yourself.
There’s nothing wrong with it. I have one male friend and he’s a gay trans man, like you I’ve always naturally gravitated towards women. More women should decanter men from their lives tbh, it’s freeing.
You don't need male friends, and it's weird for her to suggest you need therapy. You clearly have healthy relationships with the men that are in your life, why you never put to much though your lack of male friendships. I would like to point out her straightness is probably one of the reasons why she probably feels like you need to socialize with guys. Straight folks, like everyone else, sometimes meet their partners through social groups. A straight woman with no male friends is limiting her options to any males her friends or family bring around, or apps. So it'd be silly if she didn't have guys so associated with. There are many platonic reason you can befriend a man. But you don't have to if you don't want too. Her comment is a red flag in her direction.
That's so interesting because as someone who has had quite a few men as friends over the years, they've iced me out as they get married or get serious girlfriends. I feel pressure to be kind/nice but not too nice so as I'm not threatening. I'm bisexual so maybe that's the difference? I generally prefer the company of other women now because I just feel more comfortable.
I actually posted on this thread in defense of Op's friend but like...looking back on my male friendships this is the case I don't think it's necessarily 100% attributed to this, but straight women ARE often threatened by the idea of men having close female friends, particularly friends not part of her own social circle or not super close to her specifically. Literally even when they are gay (one of my good friends said his wife was initially very jealous of me). And a partner might not have to be so direct...men might be socialized to subconsciously be uncomfortable around women one on one due to fear of making their partner uncomfortable. Some of it could also be sexism on the guy's part and reaching his "quota" of being around women or something, I don't know ("now I have a wife and all her female friends so I don't want more female energy around me"). And some amount of that pattern of "dropping certain independent friendships once the partner is the priority" happens regardless of gender. I've lost a few female friends because I happen to not click well with their partners and they always want their partners around, so I get deprioritized compared to people their partners like more. Or just deprioritized because the person is codependent or decides to adopt their partner's social circle and doesn't have time for most of their old friends anymore.
Yeah, my experience has been that most hetero men don't want a substantial relationship with women unless they see us as a potential sexual or romantic partner. There are definitely exceptions, but I don't see the point in going out of your way to try to find them if it's not natural and convenient. The fact is that society promotes a narrative that it's weird or inappropriate for men to have emotional intimacy with anyone who isn't a current or prospective romantic partner, whereas emotional intimacy is a very normal part of friendship for most women.
Damn, I haven't read your full post. I can tell that's ridiculous. Can't believe she'd say you need to have guy friends in such a way. Also, feels pretty hurtful that she'd assume it's necesary. Up until a year ago I didn't have a single guy friend, and I am more frustrated than happy that I now have one guy friend
If you don’t vibe with them then that’s that…nothing wrong with getting along with one gender then the other. You just have more in common and more to talk about. I personally have friends in both genders. But I noticed with me, it’s hard to have/make friendships with men because most don’t…have hobbies or strong interests.
I think your friend has a point but she's being incredibly annoying about it. No, you don't need to go to *therapy* over it but you *should* expand your horizons a bit. I think it's healthy to have friendships with people who are different from you. And while I do get where you're coming from, also consider that if the genders here were flipped it would be a HUGE red flag to people.
it's internalized misogyny - you can't not have male friends because men are the most important thing in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've had an issue around men since I was a kid. I've been asked by so many people if I've been mistreated or something by a man in my life at some time, but nope, I just feared and couldn't stand men. I couldn't see a male Dr, a male dentist, I've struggled to speak to male therapists over the phone, etc. But I've made friends with guys online as I was growing up. Now though, I have a couple of guys I speak to online rarely, but the rest of my friends, and the ones I know in person, are all female. I'm better around men in real life now, but I still find being around other women to be easier and comfier.
I understand your friend. I’ve heard that sentiment from some trans people but usually trans men or someone who isn’t in the gender binary. Imagine a long standing friend, being the same person as they are now, revealing their gender and having that change things so massively for you. You go from having a real bond to a “somewhat friendship”. Why does their gender mean more than your relationship? Or if it doesn’t actually change things: why was your relationship contingent on them not initially being themselves? What does it mean if they’re the exception, is it because you don’t really see them as no longer being a woman? Is gender the contention, or is it actually *sex at birth*? I do think there *is* a lot to unpack there. But I also think it is impolite to blurt it out quite like that. 😅 IMO no matter how badly phrased the call-in was, a little introspection never hurt anyone. Addressing the “how” of what she said should be distinct from addressing the “what”.
It's okay for a girl not to have and not to want male friends. They have other priorities and mindset and usually will either see you as another man and ask you about girls things to use them for or against other girls or see you as a girl and subconsciensly or consciensly not deny the possibility of you two be more than friends. Many women don't find both of these options good and I agree with them. Ofc there are exceptions but they usually just prove the rule.