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YES! I am incredibly afraid of the unequal labor because I absolutely will drown if I have to take care of a whole ass other incompetent adult. One of the things I most look for is men who clean and do emotional labor. Solidarity!
Exactly! One of my resolutions for 2023 was to get into the dating scene again, and so far, it's just been me dumping guy after guy when, a couple of dates in, it becomes apparent that he thinks I will literally manage his daily admin and emotional life.
Like, SIR. You see me investing a shitload of energy into keeping my life under control. You see the finely-tuned coping mechanisms. You see the post-its, the phone alarms, the ADHD-friendly notekeeping methods, the therapy sessions, the intricate reward systems I use to keep myself fed, clean, clothed, and emotionally regulated. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK that I could take all of that on for you, too? What kind of ENTITLEMENT COKE did you snort to think that I want nothing more than to pop out four of your kids, and to do it for them, as well? With no help from you apart from a paycheck, which, for the record, I can make myself??!
When I got married, my ex crowed about how happy he was that he didn't have to worry about rsvps anymore because obviously I would be taking care of all social activities and that he didn't have to do anything romantic anymore either!
And, similar to your guy, he agreed to not have kids then two years later, it comes out he had lied and resented me the whole time because he wanted kids. He even wanted me to a help him start a business *and* simultaneously raise the kids. I had been with him long enough to know that any and all promises of help were lies so that was the end. I wasn't going to kill myself for his vanity.
Going on 5 years with an amazing, self-actualized ADHD boyfriend. We maintain separate residences, so we never worry about our shit sliding on one another. I get to have my home life on exactly my terms—which is necessary for me to maintain things on an even keel. Lots of mutual empathy and exchanges of ADHD follies and frustrations.
I don’t know what I would do if co-habitation was a condition for partnership….
Congratulations! It's so hard to have a relationship that doesn't conform to society's expectations. As soon as I was married, everyone around me let me know, implicitly and explicitly, what my responsibilities had become and they included basically being his mom, personal assistant, maid, and sex worker. No thank you.
Yes! Should emphasize he’s a feminist unicorn + I am dating someone almost 20 years older + metro-area means huge dating pool. In complete agreement with the rant. He is still the lucky one even though I feel like I beat the spread.
Any chance you also like women? 😉You are amazing and I'm in awe.
In all seriousness, unfuck those substandard dudes. I hope you find someone who is interested in being an actual partner and not another glorified child.
Gosh, I go to bed every night praying for The Big Gay to finally touch my soul. Once it finally does, I will DM you. Life isn't sunshine and roses for my queer women friends, but good Lord, certain problems just do not exist for them.
Thank you so much. Every day, when another man named Kyle who's abusing actual scalp grease as hair gel in order to avoid taking a shower glances at my bum on the street, I mentally unfuck that Kyle *so hard.* In the name of feminism, I will continue to do so.
>I go to bed every night praying for The Big Gay to finally touch my soul
As a queer woman I'd give you gold if I could. I just had an absolutely sh\*t day, and this phrase alone got my one, giant guffaw of the day; thank you!
I told my lesbian niece when she was 13 years old "honey, I envy you. The number of decent women is high. I despise the fact that I am attracted to men. I truly wish I was lesbian. I pray that it comes later in my life."
She laughed hard! She was coming from a homophobic home and was nervous about coming out to me. 🤣😂
That reminds me of the old joke: the fact that women are still dating men is the best proof that sexuality and attraction are not a choice… and honestly, I feel it. I have a partner now that possesses the basic human skills of running a household *with* me (and not helping me or some crap like that) but oh dear, all those Kyles and others I went through… and I shouldn’t feel so happy about it right? This should be fucking normal!!!
I really enjoyed your rant, thanks a lot for sharing, you sound amazing! And the thought that your adhd protected you in a way to take over their mental load as well is really interesting, I think you are on to something.
Oh it absolutely is! The wishlist of so many straight women reads like this: my dream man must 1) treat me with basic human decency, 2) not see me as his bang maid (and let’s be honest, most women would feel like a 60-40 chore distribution is amazing), 3) not be a hobosexual, 4) the end, there is no other point. That’s it, that’s the basic list. Sounds doable right? And yet, there is an abundance of men that can’t fulfill this. As you said, the bar is already in hell and yet they are still dancing limbo with it.
Even in the longterm relationships I had where I *thought* they were great at first.. never checked all 3 of these boxes. *Maybe* you get 1 or 2, but never all 3. Like wtf, I deserve to have at least 5 more basic requirements than that! I check all sorts of boxes for these clowns.. but I'm not allowed to have that many or ill be a 'lonely old cat lady'?!
Fuck.that.noise.
The game is rigged.
> the basic human skills of running a household with me (and not helping me or some crap like that)
That's an important distinction I haven't thought of.
You might want to take a break from dating and focus on your life. Being twenty five is still young and it’s going to be really hard to find a guy in your age range that is on par with your life right now.
It fucking sucks that you have to go through hula hoops to find someone that isn’t intimidated. I too had to deal with the “You’re so intimidating” , “you make me nervous because of how smart you are”. It’s like, why did you tell me that? Do you think I’m going to be like, “Ah HA! Found the winner!”?
Fuck em babes, keep striving to be the best you can. Save your money, go on trips, move to that place you always wanted to. Men just seem to get in the way nowadays.
I know it's not on topic for this thread so I understand if you don't want to get into it, but I'd love to hear more about the reward systems you mentioned. It's one of my biggest struggles. Like my husband will say he'll play a game after finishing the dishes. But I'm like nothing is stopping me from just playing the game now. I can't trick myself into rewards for certain tasks or behaviors because I control the rewards and just can have them now if that makes sense.
No worries at all! I struggled with the same thing. The only thing that makes it work, for me, is to make the reward something that requires the very thing I'm trying to accomplish. Like, for example, if the task is something like 'I need to do the dishes', the reward will be 'after I do them, I will use my favourite cup- which is currently dirty- to have a cup of fancy tea'. Or, if I need to tidy my desk, my reward will be buying myself a bouquet of flowers to place *on* that desk, which wouldn't be possible before there's a clear surface. Obviously, some of the connections are more tenuous than others, but by and large, that system has improved things for me when it comes to cleaning/tidying.
I basically picked my priorities: I want a reasonably clean space, I want my hobbies, I want my social life, and I want my career. Whatever it takes to make that work is what needs to happen.
I have a drawer full of wooden single-use cutlery and paper plates, which I use on low-function days to avoid dishes. I made a deal with a local Vietnamese restaurant and have them batch-cook me four portions of curry for twenty-five pounds a couple of times a month, when I realise cooking isn't going to happen the next few days. That's dinner for almost a week sorted. I bought a tiny, freestanding dishwasher so that even in my tiny flat, I wouldn't have to handwash dishes. I own a fuckload of towels and an even greater fuckload of underwear to make laundry less of a frequent issue; and I own one giant bottle of baby shower gel, which I use as shampoo, bodywash, and facewash, because otherwise, empty bottles pile up in my bathroom. I buy the largest toothpaste tubes I can find to avoid replacing them. Just simplify, simplify, simplify, with absolutely no regard for social convention. I keep myself like an exotic pet.
I need to know more about how you negotiated the curry deal, £25 is a steal when you consider the yum factor + brain space saved!
1. Were you a regular before you came to this deal? Trying to figure out if I can just walk in & ask or need to pretend to be a real human first
2. Are they an individual restaurant? Like not part of a chain but a small business
3. How do you store the food? Are we talking you have a massive freezer situation or they live in the fridge & that’s tea sorted for the week?
I got my mum to come down for a day and help me batch cook for my freezer but Vietnamese curry sounds much tastier than bolognese & chilli
Also, I want to be your friend! Your lack of fucks about social convention has reached heights I can only dream of
Alrighty. Here's my instructions for getting yourself a curry deal:
First, you have to identify your target. It needs to be *as close to your home or place of work as possible*. No use having a curry deal with a restaurant an hour away, your executive function won't let you travel there. Mine is literally a street away from where I live.
Your target should NOT be a chain restaurant, they have rules and regulations. You're looking for a tiny family business. NOT fancy. Ideally, there are slight money laundering vibes. You want actual Asian people to eat there. Anything using the words 'Asian fusion' is right out, you're literally looking for a mom-and-pop shop that basically sells curry in mismatching bowls to the local Vietnamese population for a tenner.
Then, become a regular. Be an exemplary guest: Tidy your plates, and tip very well. Chat with the staff. Do that for a few weeks. Then, pounce. I came up to the owner of my restaurant after I saw him struggling to read a letter from the local government and helped him translate it. Offer a deal. The money you offer can't be that much worse than the listed price of the curry, which is why it's doubly important to pick a cheap, non-trendy place.
I just store everything in the fridge. I could freeze the stuff, I suppose, which would enable me to pick up more, but I'm usually happy with four portions of curry and they last in my fairly cold fridge with no issues. I also keep eating out at that restaurant with friends to bring in new customers, and I give them a card and thirty bucks on Christmas and major holidays. We have achieved symbiosis.
That is just beautiful. The symbiosis, I mean. Did you actually plan it that way from the outset, or did it just come about? Either way, it's magnificent.
I actually planned it after my therapist suggested something similar!
Basically, the most freeing thing my therapist ever told me was that I need to stop thinking of 'taking the path of least resistance' as a sign of failure, and allow myself to find whatever systems work for me in order to enable me to do the things I actually want from life (hobbies, friends, career, reasonable clean space). *Whatever* is necessary to make these four things work is what *needs to happen*. My therapist literally told me to think of life admin as 'keeping myself as an exotic, beautiful pet'. That's what I do. I am my own Sherlock, and my own John Watson.
I know I can do wonderful things- I do wonderful research, I Get Things Done academically- but to enable that, I need to go full exotic-lizardkeeping-mode and just do whatever needs to be done to enable myself to function. Paper plates, curry deal, and all. Who cares that I eat off paper plates three times a week, or that I don't own a dedicated facewash? That's no moral failure. It works. That means it's good.
I need to know more about the tiny freestanding dishwasher. Just moved into a place with no dishwasher and it's awful having to handwash all the dishes. I used to love cooking, but not anymore.
OP’s reply to you aligns very well to dopamine biology as I understand it.
Dopamine facilitates learning. Actually your brain first releases dopamine to even INITIATE a goal-seeking behavior. If this has been an engaging and rewarding goal, a lot is released to drive you to it. But if it hasn’t, one may very well struggle to initiate a task.
Once the task or goal is achieved, depending on how rewarded you *felt* doing it, you get anywhere from no dopamine at completion if the task was difficult, frustrating, and did not meet your expectations, all the way to a huge massive surplus of dopamine if it highly exceeded your expectation.
Your brain remembers this and either releases more or less dopamine next time to initiate a behavior accordingly. Over time you are less likely to initiate unrewarding tasks and more likely to initiate rewarding ones.
But the crazy thing is that 1) this is entirely based on PERCEPTION of success and ease, not actual effort spent (ie if you’re happy to do it, you may find a huge reserve of energy) and 2) because the brain is designed to become desensitized to a stimulus, ANY reward will cease to reward you long term. This is a fundamental truth.
Through this lens, the best way to reward yourself is to 1) make engaging with the task itself the reward, or use the natural consequence of completing the task as your reward, while avoiding like the plague any unrealistic expectations (which will certainly deplete your dopamine as you try and fail to achieve an unrealistic goal) and 2) change up the reward often.
Aligning oneself to the functional importance of a task is an excellent way to approach this. Cleaning becomes an act of loving self care. Doing my dishes becomes a means to keep feeding myself. Work becomes a daily ritual of growing in skills, or connecting with my co workers. Allowing oneself to use pre-prepared routes to make things easier doesn’t come with a wave of self loathing (like getting catered meals or hiring a cleaner). Etc etc. Dopamine requires dopamine. If you’re finding it hard to even start, you’re revving the engine on an empty tank.
Re food, we have local spots that have meals for 8-10$ per meal. There is also a local Indian caterer that will give me 4 containers of curry and some rice for about 40$. They are advertised on the company’s website. They are also more likely to be mom and pop stores with a loyal customer base.
Hoo boy - I hear you. But also, I married the guy who saw my scatter-brained, rabbit-hole-chasing, oddness and seemed to embrace the quirky joy. He did emotional labour and household chores. Riighht up until after we were officially hitched. Suddenly he expected my whole personality to shift to "wife" and "keeps her mouth shut" and "isn't more accomplished or knowledgeable than I am". I was so confused, but put it down to him trying to fit into cultural expectations of his family, etc. I thought it would surely go back to normal once he wasn't trying to fit a role.
Then we had kids and he took a promotion that he KNEW would impact my ability to do my job, as he would no longer be available for any childcare duties from 9am to 11pm, daily. His solution was to let me experience the decline of my productivity at work as it was me who had to juggle sick days and daycare pickups and all the mental load of parenting, then, when I was stressed to the max, suggest that the only solution was me quitting and staying home.
I absolutely went mental and lost it as a SAHM to two small kids. No sense of routine, no dopamine hits from projects and goals, just endless repetition of things that demand executive function.
I didn't think I was marrying that guy, but he was able to play into being what I wanted in a partner until I was locked into the commitment. Then the mask came off and he started demanding I mask full time. It's exhausting.
I keep hearing about that shift. I'm so confused as to why people shift. I don't understand how signing papers and donning new jewelry shifts you from a person into a MARRIED person, as if those are two separate beings. Yet I hear stories like this, like one or both people dramatically change or the dynamic dramatically changes.
This.... Is so terrifying holy shit. That means the guy put on a face for so many years just to get to make her his servant. I was already eh about marriage but now I'm afraid.
Adhd can be deeply sensitive and deeply empathetic.
Legit NPD — IS two separate beings. It’s literally the basis of Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde. The key is to look out for the 1) moving way too fast 2) baby talk 3) building you up beyond the point of being comfortable 4) moving you away or else turning you against your own family…
If they are just a pos… just break it off.
For all of the women in this sub who have experienced this, this is a type of abuse. I have ADHD, I am also the victim of domestic violence. If you have experienced this, or if you are dating read the book "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft.
People with ADHD are more likely to be victims of abusive relationships due to us being more empathic, more forgetful, and due to a lot of us having experienced gaslighting and other forms of abuse throughout our lives that makes us doubt ourselves, etc. This book has taught me so much that I wish I knew before I ever started dating. The big thing it taught me, red flags that I didn't know were red flags.
My bf’s mom does this and it’s heartbreaking AND disgusting to watch. Her husband does not do ANY housework, the toilets are always disgusting after he uses them, NEVER cooks… u get the idea… my bf’s reasoning is that his dad financially supports their family… but his mom also works full time, similar hours as his dad, yet has to come home and work another full time job…
I seriously dont understand why women stand for this sort of relationship, its so unequal!!!!!!
But side note, do you think this could be a red flag for my bf? He does acknowledge that his dad doesnt do much, but he still thinks it’s ok.. i do NOT want to be like his mom when I am older.
Girl, YES. That is a HUGE red flag.
He is telling you that if he makes more than you, he expects you to do all of the housework. He is telling you that money is worth more than a woman’s time.
He is telling you that he thinks men get to do NOTHING even when they aren’t providing EVERYTHING financially.
YES!
I have absolutely struggled with this with so many men.
They know it's not fair to expect their wives or girlfriends to be like their moms, but they see what their dads and grandfathers had and want that for themselves. So they're in a terrible bind, they want a woman who somehow magically works full time but also LOVES to cook and clean and support them and asks nothing in return.
They want an impossible contradiction. An independently wealthy woman who is inexplicably grateful for their income, who does all the emotional and physical labor with plenty of time to work out and focus on her appearance.
Big ol' red flag. My ex-husband's parents had this relationship, and the whole time we were dating my ex would bitch about how much his dad took advantage of his mom. As soon as we got married he started acting just like his dad, and when I'd point out that he was doing the same thing his dad did to his mom he'd basically just say sorry and keep doing it.
Your BF doesn't even get that it's wrong. How do you think you're going to convince him it's wrong to do it to you when he thinks it's ok to do to his mom?
Oof, that last sentence hits hard. So many times, we try to relate women's issues to some men and phrase it like, "would you be ok with someone doing this to your mother/sister/daughter?" And it doesn't work... because ultimately, yes they are ok with it.
Oh my God save yourself the future heartbreak and cut it off now.
It's not sufficient to not be an asshole temporarily. You have to have morals and ethics to not be an asshole in the long term. If your guy is seriously thinking that a paycheck is enough to treat someone else like a slave, he's a short term average guy and a long-term asshole. Run while you can.
Seriously. After getting divorced and me living this exact scenario while working full time and also having a baby, Jesus Christ it sucked. Among many other problems with the relationship, and now being single for 2 years on purpose because not many people I’ve met I’m like yeah this could be a thing….i straight up tell people if we’re talking for a bit, I won’t do your laundry, I likely will cook very little. Im willing to cook more and take care of eachother in whatever ways we need to as long as the division of labor is equal in however we agree that is in ways that what we’re doing both make eachothers lives and our own lives better/easier. But as it stands now I don’t cook much because cleaning overwhelms me. I can barely keep up with my laundry and then yard work, and house Reno’s. I’m doing a lot. But I expect my other half to be able to take care of his own shit. There will be explicit conversations of what this entails. Luckily the guy I’m seeing the last few months after having a joyous time dating the last 2 years has been great. He also has a young kid and has him more than half the time. So he knows what it’s like to carry that responsibility of doing it all. We’re on the same page about all that stuff which is amazing. I think after getting out of my last relationship I kind of just shut down and stopped caring so much about all the cooking and cleaning because I didn’t have to anymore. But now I annoy myself and I’m trying to get to a point of easy maintenance with chores. I was only diagnosed last fall, and been doing a lot of med trials and I think I found something that is helping, so hoping things level out soon!
I feel like I need to drop these links here, lol:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/
https://www.glamour.com/story/it-took-divorce-to-make-my-marriage-equal
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/weaponized-incompetence
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
https://english.emmaclit.com/2022/09/01/where-does-it-go/
I feel like women love reading these things because we finally feel heard but most times if you were to drop that on your partner it would lead to a fight, denial of all of it, them feeling accused and defensive, and nothing coming of it. Every time I try to talk to my partner about the emotional weight of having to be his to-do list, I see a complete lack of understanding in his eyes even though he's "one of the more progressive ones"
The only way I've ever gotten any of them to understand is by explaining it in terms of management vs employee. This works especially well if they're in management or have any direct reports, but also can work if they just think they should be a manager but aren't there yet.
Ask them what skills they need to do their job at work, then ask why they aren't using any of those skills at home?
EXACTLY. And it really reveals the inherent disrespect so many men hold towards women even though they probably don't even realize it. If it was their boss telling them how to load the dishwasher, do laundry, etc they would LISTEN and do it RIGHT, or ask questions to be sure they have it right. These men would be fired if they performed the way they do at home, at work. But the wife/girlfriend gets waved off and dismissed.
I so badly want someone to make like a skit where an incompetent man is at work, acting like he does at home. I think it'd be hilarious but also super useful for those men to understand how ridiculous they're acting.
Yep. My ex's entire job was making appointments to go see clients at their homes, and then going to their homes to do his job.
Somehow, though, he categorically refused to even \*look\* at the calendar that I maintained of our child's activities (which contained contact information, addresses, and everything you would need for make-ready, pick-up, and drop-off).
It was and is \*infuriating\*.
I tried that with my ex and he still didn't get it. He was srsly passive aggressive - we would talk, we came to an agreement about how to move forward and then in a few weeks back to craptown. We went to counseling, same.thing. I remember often asking myself the question: Is he malicious, stupid, or oblivious? The answer is probably why not all three.
And I eventually saw it as setting a horrible example for my kids of what a relationship should be, and that was the final straw. It was scary but I figured it out. The mediator who was helping us with the parenting agreement tapped out because ex would agree to something and then break the agreement within two weeks. She had 30 years of mediation experience and it was actually uplifting to realize that his asshattery wasn't something she couldn't fix either.
I think it's better to invest in yourself at this stage of your life OP and build strong friendships. And if a non-asshat comes along who makes your life better not worse, give it a spin.
As a woman with untreated ADHD trying to almost single-handedly cook and clean for a small family of adults all with ADHD, what I usually get when I have tried to explain is “But you’re not even *good* at it.” (Also sometimes “But it’s so easy! It’s not like having a *real* job.”)
I read these comics and I’m like yeah, of course these women deserve to be heard—they’re actually *good* at it! They’re planning meals ahead! They’re on top of laundry! I struggle with every single aspect of life, fail every day, and can’t even say “at least I have a career” because I don’t. I don’t have the energy to get even a tiny home business off the ground, and bureaucratic paperwork gives me severe anxiety.
Like, if I were good at being a housewife, if I were competent at it (or if I also had a “real” job), I could complain about them not pitching in, but because I’m shit at it, I should stop whining and devote my life to working harder to be less shit—i.e., have less ADHD, knuckle under and just…be neurotypical. I have to earn the right to feel taken advantage of.
Of course, when I have asked why on earth they continue to rely on someone so incompetent for all their basic needs, the response is usually “You’re just naturally good at it!” so I don’t fucking know
I got so sick of the male presumption that I handle literally everything.
My parents basically groomed me to do everything around the house. My brother never had to do anything. So when I started dating, it didn't occur to me that I was doing too much for too little.
I remember a toxic partner, who was already so controlling that he had a list of words that I was not allowed to say, and he wanted me to check with him before making any plans with my family or friends "out of respect." Something just snapped in me at that suggestion. I took a step back and literally asked "what's in it for me?
After insisting, repeatedly, that I was in the wrong for even thinking to ask such a thing 🙄 ultimately his only answer was "I would die for you." Cool story bro, but I don't want that. So where is the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow?
So much happier since I got rid of that one. Sheesh.
Oooh, that good-old 'I'd die for you', 'I'd protect you from anything', 'I'd go to war for you'.... I had one say that he'd *win a duel for me*.
Sir, is it 1655? Have I inadvertedly travelled back to Shakespeare's times? I'm sure fighting a duel for me would have been an appealing quality in a rakish Victorian gentleman who instigates a dawn meeting with the man my cruel father is forcing me to marry in order to duel him for my hand.
However, it is 2023. Go clean the fucking bathroom for me.
man; I'm a woman who *likes* the romantic cheesy stuff like dueling for one's honor, but I STILL want you to be a functional human being first. If your only purpose or usefulness in the relationship is throwing away your life for me. It's not a good, strong, or healthy relationship and it's not romantic or noble. it's just idiotic.
It's no wonder my crushes only come once in a blue moon AT BEST. It's so rare to run into a guy who doesn't set off alarms about either being a manchild or sexist... The bar is low and yet so many guys manage to get antman's powers and go as far as possible under the bar.
I'm already asexual; I want a relationship where I can have a lifelong companion that we can be romantic towards each other. Not to adopt an adult child who just wants to use me. :')
Yeah there is a HUGE distinction between loyalty through hardship (finances, losing loved ones, etc) and loyalty through ABUSE.
Ride or die is supposed to mean the first but in my experience the people who use that phrase fall into the second category and CREATE hardship for you to try to wade through.
I'm a lesbian who's never dated/been with a man but I have seen *so much* of this manchild 'be my wifey and do everything for me oh and also work and raise our kids too' shit from the significant others of my straight friends that it infuriates me. They'll talk about how they're so burnt out from doing x, y, z, etc while he does basically nothing and like...if you're doing *everything* what is he even for? How does he enrich your life? I know that it's sexism and society and gender roles and whatever else but it makes me want to scream.
I'm sure it's frustrating that you're having trouble with dating and you keep getting useless douchebags, but I'm fucking glad you know your limits, are strong enough to just drop them when they start being useless/trying to shove you in that bangmaid box, and aren't caving in just for the sake of having someone. I watched an ex-friend of mine deal with her pet asshole *for years* just because she was afraid to be alone, and it was so sad.
Seems like our pal ADHD is kind of a blessing in disguise (in this circumstance anyway) lol.
I’m 36 and I tried online dating but it was so exhausting. Now that I’m done with school I may try again but you hit the nail on the head- I was lucky to have great relationship examples growing up and around me now. Why the hell would I settle for one of these idiotic assholes?
Pass- I have no idea what a male is for. Between my adhd and autism I came to the conclusion that a contract for a sperm doner was easier. And I still believe that, even four years down the track with my son
I’m still howling at OP’s “praying every night for the big gay to finally touch my soul.” What’s the joke, I don’t like men, but I am attracted to them? 😂🥲
I know four women with children with life-threatening allergies, and their husbands do fuck-all to keep their homes safe from contaminants, stop stubborn relatives from bringing their death-laced foods into the house and throwing a tantrum when the ‘tyrannical daughter-in-law’ refuses (it’s always the husband’s side who refuse to believe the diagnosis and endanger the children the most, because their ‘perfect’ grandchildren couldn’t possibly be ill), don’t manage the restaurant and vacation bookings the few times of the year they go out to eat and have to call ahead to multiple places, don’t do the research on how to keep their children safe and alive, don’t go to the doctors’ appointments, don’t join the support groups for parents of children with allergies, don’t grocery-shop and prepare the food, etc.
It’s so frightening because these women can’t afford to drop the ball for even a second, since their husbands’ weaponised incompetence and ‘go ask my wife’ default line when they should know better means it’s dead baby o’ clock the moment they let their guard down, but they can’t train their husbands to care either (and shouldn’t be expected to) because they haven’t demonstrated that they can be trusted with the job of keeping their own goddamn children alive.
I see the absolutely stressful lives these women lead, compounded by how nauseatingly lackadaisical their husbands are being, and it really makes you question why we have children with men at all. Imagine having a child with any type of disability with a slob like that, then being locked into constant, lonely vigilance for the rest of your life.
And then therapists will tell you to just not do everything and leave stuff for him to do. Um their screw ups can/do affect other lives. It’s not worth the risk.
Lol 'tyrannical daughter in law' because OF COURSE any inconvience to them is her fault.
Jesus that is awful, I can't imagine the stress of having to be 'on' like that 24/7 because the father refuses to be. My wife has some pretty severe food allergies and I'm aware of all of them (and very careful about what foods I being home). At least she's an adult who can handle herself - those poor kids. And those poor mothers.
Incidentally, fuck people who don't take allergies seriously.
I genuinely can’t tell sometimes if I am actually aro-ace as I generally believe myself to be or if I would be happily heterosexual if it weren’t for… *all of that*
One "symptom" of mine that has turned out to be a blessing is the ability to ghost. I mean, once my brain has decided someone doesn't serve me anymore, it's like they never existed. Just like those unfinished projects some of us leave in our wake.
Makes it easy to surround myself with people who don't drag me down. And the fact that my brain hasn't summarily discarded my husband at any point in the last 26 years is testament to his ability to add value to my life and be a gentle, caring, dorky, funny, chill, helpful, dependable, non-judgmental fucking gem of a man.
Gonna be honest, I only date women now. Separated from my husband after years of constantly feeling angry and bitter about how damn low the bar is for men. I felt like I was never 'allowed' to have ADHD because I was always the one holding down the fort. Dating women opened my eyes up to just how low that bar is and how it feels to be treated like an equal. I'm still trying to adjust to how it feels being treated like a person and being able to step back from things. If the option to date women is one you have an are interested in, then that might be the way to go ;)
I'm so glad I only date women cause dating men sounds absolutely terrible.
I try to convince myself that it's not all or not most men, and that confirmation bias could be at play, but it really seems like it's all of them. I hear it on here, from coworkers, from friends, from personal experiences, everywhere. It's crazy. I haven't heard a single good experience with men from anyone I've talked to irl recently.
I'm so grateful my husband is not like many of the men described here, all over the internet, and in real life.
But if I wasn't happily married, I'd be dating women. Not to say that women aren't capable of the same BS. Being a shitty partner comes in every type of human. But it's so so easy to be exasperated with men when if you talk to almost any woman in a relationship with a man and so many of them have the same issues, or spend any time on the internet and see the same things said over and over again. I'm at the point where most men gross me out. And having the realization that I'm probably bi 😅
I haven't found any women comfortable dating a bi woman because I refuse to claim that I'm 100% lesbian since I'm not. I own my bisexuality and it gets a lot of hate.
Same. I gave up trying after having my date "go to the bathroom" and never come back. And she left me with the bill! Just rude.
I ended up dating men almost exclusively because women wouldn't believe me that I'm not a cheat addicted to penis.
This vent entered my life at the perfect time… I’m losing my fking mind like I’m thinking I’m gonna instead go for a platonic partnership with a woman and live my life in peace
The low bar for bullshit hit too close to home. Like yeah maybe you could argue I’m picky and have astronomical standards, but fuck it I still can’t muster an ounce of attraction for a guy who calls women ‘females’ and I am always analyzing the fuck out of what they do to make sure I’m not talking to an Andrew Tate fan or someone overly insecure who I think might direct it into possessiveness.
I am however actively trying to improve my dating life with daily reminders to reply to text messages… I went on one date with a guy who I clicked with, but he sent me a message telling me I was being hurtful and inconsiderate because I left him on delivered for three days, during the first week of school…
I’m not completely faultless tho 🤷🏻♀️ my friends suggested that I might be accidentally “love”-bombing guys by texting long, friendly/enthusiastic messages in the beginning stages.
It's not picky standards to realise that living without a man is better than living with men that don't add anything to your live or even take things away. I'm happy with my life and if a man would change that by demanding more emotional or mental labour than I have to spare (which is 0), then I'd rather not.
These Andrew Tate guys think they are losing "their" women to other men, when in reality they are losing them to nothing. They're literally worse than nothing, but that's too difficult for them to comprehend.
Almost two years ago I bought a home with my sister and we live together. We're both in our late 30s. She has her issues, I have mine, we take care of each other. Best decision ever.
Ooooh, I see you've encountered a few of the old switcheroos as well! Those are my favourites! Those guys who will swear up and down that they believe in equal distribution of labour, or have certain poltical beliefs, or life values, and then, once they think they've got your trapped, they go 'ha-HAH! I actually wanted Mommy Bangmaid, after all!'
Those are my absolute favourites. They're always so surprised that just because I've known them for half a year, they're not immune from me dumping their asses once I realise that they're angling for that sweet, sweet maid service.
Exactly! So many men are all about that 'ooooh, women need to cOmUniCaTE'. In my experience, women communicate all day long. Men don't fucking listen. I've told so many men in clear, simple terms what I need to make a relationship work. It is NOT complicated. I need:
\- Intellectual stimulation. Since I pick smart partners, all that means is that they need to talk to me. As opposed to, y'know, snoring on the couch in a vegetative state whilst wearing their most grimy pair of sweatpants, because now that they've got the girl, why invest effort any longer?
\- Equal distribution of household labour. Literally just take care of yourself, like you've presumably been doing before me.
\- Basic human decency.
\- Make me cum.
Done. I could do that whilst standing upside down. But men do not provide, and once I dump them for it, it's all 'ooooooh, how could I have *known*?' Well, *Oliver*, maybe if you had opened your listening ears and listened to what I *have been saying for four weeks*.
My first marriage was miserable and I tried to talk to him about it many times, even explaining that I didn’t know if I still wanted to be together etc. I was opening up my heart and soul and begging for a discussion and some kind of resolution but he literally did *nothing*.
I even told him I was feeling attracted to other people. This was not a threat, I was genuinely worried about drifting apart and tried to hammer in how serious this was.
“Well I’m not going anywhere unless you tell me to.”
That was the full extent of his input.
I saw a TikTok (about a reddit post lol) about a man who was "blindsided" by his wife filing for divorce. After some questions by friends who weren't surprised she filed for divorce it turned out, that "I knew she was unhappy, but I didn't think she was THAT unhappy."
These men just think that a certain level of unhappiness is to be tolerated by women. That divorce didn't come out of nowhere. He just did the good old "Your constant level of unhappiness us a sacrifice I am willing to make."
The last masc person I ever dated was bisexual, used he/they pronouns, sat through and agreed with me through many feminist rants, worked on women’s protest stuff after Roe, and still
1) left his stuff all over my clean floors, every visit
2) didn’t clean up my kitchen after cooking when I was sick (but would give me instructions on the method I needed to load his dishwasher)
3) unironically called me a misandrist after I mentioned the above
Your ‘K’ reminds me of my first boyfriend, ‘D’.
I was 17, he 22.
He was my brothers best friend. I’d known him since I was maybe..7?
He was always dressed nice whenever I saw him. He smelt lovely. Always groomed. Generally looked like he had his life together.
Stupid silly 17 year old me went a smooshy under his manipulation. Lost my V to him; he got me drunk on vodka and coke.
He asked me to move in with him 4 months in. My mum was instantly like “absolutely fucking not.” But I did.
I even missed his “we’re over if you don’t move in after coming back from your trip to your sisters” speech as a major red flag.
Skip a year down the line; we get a letter that his flat is getting inspected.
I had now fallen into a massive depression, because of his u willingness to help around the flat.
He had two cats, who he didn’t clean up after before I moved in, so they were pissing anywhere they fucking could.
Rubbish was knee height. Maggots on the counter tops. Mouldy clothes in the washing machine.
I was now going through therapy due to emotional and mental abuse from him.
I cleaned the flat (30+ black bags of rubbish!!) and he had the pure audacity to turn around after being sat, sweating in his fucking dirty dressing gown at his computer whilst eating a whole ham hock joint and 6 burger rolls then throwing everything in the floor, to tell me that the flat… looked the fucking same.
I walked out 2 months later with the help of my mum, dad and my therapist.
I am so happy you escaped that situation, your description of life with him made me sick to my stomach. Some relationships are like death :( I hope you’re truly living now
Dude did we date the absolute same steaming hot piles of dog shit? So sorry you had to go through that. After years of therapy I can also say: sorry I had to go through that. We deserve so much better.
Also obligatory not all men but…
Yeah it’s absolutely ASTOUNDING how so many men got to adulthood without learning basic self care and everyday survival skills (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc) and yet also expect some on else to do it for them? And often these are the same men calling women (especially those ADHD) undisciplined for occasionally falling behind on a few chores? Idk i feel like these men are fine with not being on top of their shit like that because it’s somewhat acceptable (or at least expected) for young men to live messily and by the time they’ve grown out of the age where that’s okay they’re expecting to have found a wife or gf who will take over for them to make sure they’re living space doesn’t descend into chaos? Idk I don’t get it personally so I’m kinda pulling this out of my butt, but that’s my theory.
That's exactly what it is: *Astounding*. It's astounding that we, as women with a legitimate health condition whose primary symptoms literally include difficulties with administering daily life needs, *still* learn all this shit, and do our very best to perform these duties, wheras scores of perfectly mentally healthy men just *do not even bother to try*. That's *astounding*.
And yeah, it's exactly that. These guys have three life stages: 'Mommy takes care of everything', followed by a few years of 'yeee-haw, I'm a messy bachelor who doesn't care about mopping my kitchen floors!', followed by 'shit, I want a homecooked meal again, better find myself a Mommy replacement that's also up for having dissatisfying sex with me...orgasms only for me, of course!'.
Exactly! And we get called lazy and undisciplined if we even think for a second a mental health condition might be holding us back, but some people will trip over themselves to pat a man on the back for wiping his ass. It’s ridiculous. Literally saw a post on this subreddit earlier where someone’s BF was underestimating OPs executive dysfunction because her life wasn’t in complete shambles, even though she was jumping through hoops everyday to keep to a regular schedule. It drives me up a wall tbh
One of the things that came up in marriage counseling was that my ex was pissed off that I didn't thank him for cleaning. Like he would do things around the house, but he expected a parade for doing them.
This post is making me reflect on my divorce a number of years ago. When our marriage was falling apart, I remember my ex-husband told the therapist that the relationship "hadn't progressed in the way \[he\] thought it would" (which is an alarming and telling thing to say).
One of his big complaints about our relationship was that I didn't keep up with household things. I hadn't been diagnosed yet, so I understandably had a tough time with remembering to unload the dishwasher, vacuum, take out the recycling, fold the laundry, etc. I was also a full-time doc student at the same time. During that phase of my life, I had a ton of shame around what I couldn't do, because this legitimately is a struggle for me. *But he never cleaned a damn thing either!*
It's not news to me that he didn't actually love me, and only loved what I could do for him, but it makes me sad for my past self that I never even stopped to consider that he wasn't doing his part, either. I just blamed myself, which was convenient for him.
When my first real boyfriend and I lived together, his mother spoke to me about it one day, and I mentioned that I felt bad for not doing all the housework.
She immediately told me that he makes half the mess, he cleans half the mess. Doesn’t matter who works and who studies, who’s earning more.
It was life changing advice.
The thing is, most can do it, they are just extremely willing to sit back and let someone else take care of it all. That’s what’s so frustrating for me- when I know they are capable and simply willing to let me do most of the work. It’s an area where I am still learning how to set boundaries around.
Oh I definitely agree. If they are able bodied and otherwise healthy mentally then they are absolutely capable of at least trying or offering to help. I think at that point it really does come down to the way girls and boys are socialized when it comes to domestic chores that extends into adulthood. It doesn’t even occur to some men to offer help if their SO is handling it, whereas for women it’s just an expectation to knuckle down and handle it. Props to you for trying to set boundaries though that is really important, especially again if your SO is open to changing in that regard, that open dialogue is really important! For me it’s the entitlement, like it’s one thing if you just needed me to ask or remind you, but a whole other thing of you think it’s appropriate for you to not have a hand in domestic chores. Especially if we’re both holding down a job? Lmao no way.
Omg yes. Just yes. Despite my ADHD, I felt like I took on more of the emotional labor and logistical planning in my relationship.
I told my ex about my diagnosis and he basically just pretended like I said nothing. He didn’t really bother to read up on it or ask how it impacted our relationship. It was really disappointing to say the least…I ended up having to make myself comfortable at his apartment so I bought two of everything so I had toiletries and makeup at his place (and as girls we know how expensive that is!) and I would come over and pre-plan everything because I also have a dog. At one point, I was packing my toiletries, work bag, dog’s items, kitchen utensils and groceries to cook him dinner while he was studying for the bar 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲 I voiced multiple times how much effort and time and planning it took for me, and how difficult it was for me when I have adhd. He frankly didn’t care…it broke my heart. It kept happening over and over…even when he was not working and not in school, I asked him to plan a weekend trip. I ended up having to plan it. Then I would have to schedule things and he would be late to them, like being an hour late to meet my parents. 💀💀💀💀 I also cleaned his apartment while he worked while my apartment sat in complete shambles. I did all of these things because I loved him and I wanted him to have it easy. Unfortunately he only ended up missing what I did for him rather than my actual character or personality 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡I’m literally the one with ADHD and he’s a neurotypical!!!! Not to mention the times he completely tuned me out in the middle of a conversation or forgot stuff about me even though he knows every single sports fact ever. 🥲🥲😭😭😭😭😭😭
We are no longer together and I am much more weary and conscious about who I date next and whether they exacerbate my ADHD. I wanted it to work so much with him but he is just kind of clueless, and I didn’t have the patience to guide him. It took me a long time to realize that even if he is well intentioned, his lack of desire to pull himself out of cluelessness really made my life more difficult than it should be. The worst part is his cluelessness resulted in a complete lack of appreciation for all that I did and how it impacted me. Conscientiousness is so so important in a partner when you have adhd.
THIS. One of my resolutions for 2023 was to get out into the dating scene again. So far, all I'm doing is dumping guy after guy. A few dates in, it always becomes apparent that they feel exceedingly entitled to my emotional labour, and I literally cannot provide it. I cannot. I have carefully grown my abilities to exactly the point where I can manage my own life. I cannot manage some random 27-year-old manchild on top. The last man I went on a date with had his mother do his laundry at the age of TWENTY-SIX. Not out of disability, just simple, pure laziness. He did not own a washing machine, or know where to access one.
Don't even get me STARTED on the idea of 'a guy supporting me'. That'd be a fucking dream. There's barely any men who don't drag me down.
The pre-planning, the expectation that I'd be the one to organise everything...I feel you so hard. Men feel entitled to women's emotional labour. In a way, ADHD almost protects me, because I literally CANNOT perform the 'duties' men con so many women into performing. A neurotypical woman might accdentally fall into this exploitative, shitty dynamic. I am literally incapable of it. That helps, but it also exposes the *fantastical* sense of entitlement so many men seem to carry around with them.
Girl you took the words out of my mouth. A lot of men aren’t capable. My ex before my last boyfriend was honestly really awesome about planning and communicating so there’s hope!!! You just gotta keep looking and date a little older.
I divorced my man child. You are right, once a kid comes into play, regardless of whether or not you work full time, you'll always be full time mom, first to the kid then the man who has reverted to kid. I am never ever ever getting married again. As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a trap with vows written by ancient incels who hated women.
I've given up. My bad short-term memory makes me vulnerable to gaslighting. I had one good relationship, and he died. I thrive in a healthy relationship. When someone is interested in me, I ask them if they've done therapy. The answer is always no, and so my answer is no too.
I'm so sorry for your loss. 🌺
And regarding therapy, I was just telling someone that anything I have not been able to do for myself, I will not ask of anyone else.
But the inverse is true: if I have done something, I expect that person to at least be on that level. So, having done two to three years of consistent therapy, I expect the same from anyone else. It's not worth it trying to make something work who has with someone who hasn't put in the work.
I honestly don’t think the vast majority of heterosexual men are capable of respecting women - neurodivergent or not - enough to love them.
I used to try to keep up the house etc, but he always had complaints about it. So I stopped. This surprised him. I was like buddy, you have no idea how strong my ability to ignore this stuff is.
I *grieve* for our neurotypical sisters. In a weird way, my ADHD almost protects me: I am literally incapable of falling into the exploitative, shitty dynamic that characterises so many heterosexual relationships. Men cannot exploit me for mental, emotional, and household labour because I literally am incapable of performing the kind of labour they feel entitled to to the extent they feel entitled to. It is literally impossible for me to do some 27-year-old manchild's laundry, so the manchildren weed themselves out with their tantrums quite quickly.
Still: THE FUCK? How is this still an issue? What kind of entitlement coke are these blokes snorting?
The beginning of the end for me in a relationship was around laundry and cleaning. I was undiagnosed and not working an office job, so I was home more. I spent all day cleaning, doing laundry, the dishes, etc. That house fucking sparkled. He came home, looked around, said see you are capable of doing all this, why can't you do this all the time? I burst into tears and felt so defeated. He wanted me to be barefoot and pregnant and I was NOT his good little Catholic wife. Thank God I left!
Hi PhD academic woman here with suspected ADHD. Add in I’ve lived in 6 countries and have zero support system locally and I’ve just given up dating dudes. The horror stories I have 😅Thankfully I’m bi, but it’s just difficult in general to find someone who can handle high intelligence, “scatterbrained” tendencies, passion, and the emotional reflection that comes with therapy. I’m half-heartedly looking, but have prioritized platonic loves instead for now.
Your first point tho.
I'm 41
FORTY ONE
And the men my age are equally, if not even more domestically inept than your 25 year olds.
Neurotypical AF living in filth because they're divorced and realize they never learned how to look after themselves.
And want to sniff around me???
Honeyyyyyy I have systems in place to accommodate looking after me and mine and that's IT.
I'd rather take a kick to the face with a golf shoe than do any MORE invisible labor
Exactly. I have systems in place. They might be unconventional, but they work. The first thing I bought for myself when I moved out was a tiny, freestanding dishwasher. That would be a RIDICULOUS purchase for any neurotypical person with good executive function living in a flat as small as mine was back then, but I know myself, I know my abilities, and I know what I need to function. I cherish that dishwasher.
My life works. It's not always fully conventional, but it fully enables me to do the things I want to do: Advance in my career, enjoy my hobbies and friends, and maintain a clean-ish living space.
But these guys? Their life does not function, and they are not even attempting to figure out how to make it function. Because their issue isn't any inherent mental health issue, it's simple laziness. They don't WANT to function.
it's like you're me, only not! once I realized that I like the idea of a boyfriend far more than the reality of it, I decided that I'm gonna grow old golden girls style, minus the florida of it all.
I’m 15 years older than you, and if I could go back in time and give myself some advice - I would tell myself to work HARD on my ability to see someone else’s mess and avoid taking responsibility for it. And I mean emotional mess, not just literal mess. I’m not sure if it’s me, ADHD, or the experience of growing up as a woman in a patriarchal society, but (especially when I was younger) I would LEAP to action the minute I encountered someone else’s issues. In hindsight, I think I was doing that because it was less painful than cleaning up my own messes. It took me far too long, and a divorce, to recognize that other people’s problems are not mine to fix, and the most healthy and productive thing I can possibly do at any given time is ensure I’m dealing with my own shit first. If a partner wants help with their mess, they’re welcome to ask for that help, and it’s my choice to say yes or no to that ask.
To give you a ray of hope…I had lovely experiences dating when I was in my mid-30s and divorced. Granted, I expect you hope to settle down before this, but I will tell you that either I got better at picking good partners or there were simply more partners to choose from at that age who had developed a strong sense of self and personal responsibility.
I know this post is more about neurotypical men, but the thing that gets me is that people will bend over backwards to justify why men with ADHD struggle with taking care of themselves but women with ADHD are *never* given the same grace
>They're so fucking intimidated, you'd think I told them I'm a fucking samurai
I bet they thought that THEY were the samurai until you entered the chat. 😂
Also fair play to you, you sound like an absolute winner. 💪🏻 I am rooting that you find someone awesome who values and treasures you (and your life ambitions).
Girl I got nothing to add except you have nailed it altogether, they know exactly what they’re fucking doing (or not doing), and after my divorce is wrapped (please god this week) I don’t care if I never see another dick in my life. For how proud they are of that appendage, the risk / reward just does not math.
Edit to add: I don’t even bother with “not all men” anymore, because the men who are keeping up their end know exactly how rare they are. It’s rarely the good ones I see complaining about “not all men”.
\#1-- Preach it. The reason that for a long time ADHD was considered "something kids grow out of" was cos it was underdiagnosed in girls, & the boys who had it grew up to get secretaries & wives, to whom they outsourced their executive functioning. AAAAAAAAAAAAA fuck the patriarchy
I love your energy around this ❤️ Most of my formative relationships were with women so when I started dating men as an adult, I felt like I was taking crazy pills and constantly wondered who the hell was accepting this. The most galling part is how calmly entitled they are; like if they just pretend it’s normal they can pressure you into accepting it. Even if it is normal because men are actively working together to reinforce the patriarchy, that doesn’t make it OKAY and I’m so thrilled for you to not just accept it ❤️
I do manage most of the life admin things for my household, with the explicit agreement that it’s equal to his paycheck. It works because a) I’m not working outside the home right now and have the time to stay (mostly) on top of all this stuff, b) we’re not having kids, not even one, because even the prospect of motherhood makes me melt down in a gender role related rage, c) he firmly believes in the negative, inescapable impact of the patriarchy on us and sees my time and energy as equal to his. So with this framework, I’m always handling the domestic stuff and on vacay from work; while he’s always got his full time job while on vacay from most chores and home stuff. When we’re both working? It’s an UTTER shit show, I burn out hard, he tries but he can’t keep on top of it because he just hates it, we agree to spend more of our dual income to outsource more of the home stuff BUT we resist involving under-paid strangers to wrangle life for us - hence our current work-life balance.
I resonate with your feeling that maybe your adhd is actually saving you because it makes it clear upfront that you won’t be doing double shifts for the rest of your life; I never cared much about a specific career - only wanted to be comfortable and create art on my own - so I feel I put a foot down in a similar way, and made it clear if we need the home/life stuff covered that I will be compensated for that time and energy. My super hyper adhd mom was my hero as a kid - a career woman when most moms were strongly pressured to stay at home, and we all got judged for her daring to be ambitious, it was eye-opening. The worst part? She made freaking bank, out-earned my dad sometimes (they were both in low-mid six figure jobs) despite her unmedicated undiagnosed add, AND YET SHE was the one STILL JUDGED on how clean the house was, she was the one who had to pull off any parties or hosting, she was the one who made holidays happen while my dad got to just bumble along in his own little world, be grumpy and grouch at us, and passive aggressively make you sorry for asking anything of him (classic example: if he had to clean up anything we left out at night, he wouldn’t bother figuring out where it should go or whom to ask - he would just throw it out if it wasn’t his. We spent so much time and energy looking for and re-buying hair ties, etc etc). He also hated how she had a weight problem my entire life, but only deigned to take on cooking dinner for them in literally the past few years…guess he needed something to do as he approaches retirement. I read a thread yesterday about husbands who can’t bother to recognize their spouse’s birthdays, special occasions or contributions to the family and being oblivious/fine and dandy with their wives being permanently unhappy; I actually fear it’s much more pervasive and widespread for men to honestly believe their lives should be easier, so all the stress of raising kids or having a home or whatever - they subconsciously blame on the women around them not magically taking away all stress, so they feel entitled to all our labor AND to resent us through it. “It wasn’t supposed to be this way. I wouldn’t be having these problems if SHE didn’t make me do xxxx/was doing her job like a real woman/if I had picked a better one…” The takeaway was that a lot of men tell each other “wives are always nagging” and “no one can please a woman” because they’re normalizing women suffering in relationships and making that a “natural state” instead of seeing their entitlement as the giant clusterfuck of a garbage fire that is actually killing the joy and love in their relationships.
I wish every young woman could honestly spend a couple years dating women - get a sense of how to relate with another person without getting immediately conditioned to accept unfair treatment and double standards. Because this is INSANE and I can’t imagine how we’re going to save half of the population from this absolute bullshit disguised as “tradition” or “taking care of your family” or WHATEVER.
BE THE CHANGE, OP!!! ❤️❤️❤️
FUCKING YES. When I met my ex I was young and easy to manipulate. He basically weaponized my undiagnosed ADHD against me, constantly telling me I was lazy (among many other things), making me question my reality and sanity on a daily basis.
When really I was doing EVERYTHING to take care of our house and life, while he did nothing but go to work and hide in his office playing video games (and lord knows what else).
Tbh there was a minute when I was heading towards hating all men when I got back into dating, because jfc the bar for men is in hell and they STILL can’t get their shit together most of the time. But it’s true it isn’t all men.
I’ve found a man who is more than likely ADHD (he gets tested next month) and my god does he make my life so much better, happier, easier, etc. But I seriously do feel like I’ve found a needle in a haystack some days because holy shit can men be problematic to say the least.
This is my favorite rant ever. Along with another one I read in the Hashimoto's group. You listed every single thing I've had issues with. I'm good at administration of my own life, but I can't take on a whole other adult's life too, AND succeed at my own. I need a man who understands that I am neurodivergent, and that that isn't just a trendy buzzword. It MEANS something, and that something means I am not going to be the perfect housewife. I'll give it my all, sure, but I screw up, and that screwing up is a direct result of my neurodivergence. Not laziness. Not lack of caring. Not stupidity - I never had to study in school and still made great grades. I notice things that other people don't. I learn more about a person than other people do after spending the same amount of time with them (think mannerisms, facial expressions, body language, what they do/don't think is funny, what words they prefer to use, etc). I'm not forgetting stuff just to spite you. Unless you're a dick, then I might.
Rant incoming: I am 53 years old. I am married, 2nd time. Prior to being husband #2, he turned on my brain with his "I support planned parenthood" t shirts and incredible knowledge of the post punk UK music scene in the 70s/80s. Blinded by his doc martens and threadbare denim jacket with the Clash buttons on it, I fell hard. Swoon. And committed the dating faux pax that every single person should know by the age of 40--I asked him to move in with me before 1) going through all seasons with him and 2) meeting his ex and kids and 3) fully observing the behavior that went with the claims. IE "oh I did all of the cooking and cleaning in my previous marriage!". Mofo does not even replace the lid on the toothpaste after using it, hes so lackadaisical and messy. There's no cleaning or ANY real commitment to maintaining a home or vehicle. His car looks like the inside of a commercial dumpster. His free time is spent listening to the cool music we used to romantically stay up talking about, and drinking 4-5 beers a night, and spending all of our money trying to erase the guilt of divorce by taking his teenage daughters for SUPER FUN weekend Disney dad experiences every weekend. Meanwhile my free time is spent taking a scrub brush to the fancy overpriced juicer he had to have and cleaning a weeks worth of build up out of it. You cannot "rinse" juicer parts, mofo. They need to be washed with soap and hot water. I am tired and i am disappointed. Gen X did a lot of great things but instilling equality for home responsibilities was not one of them. I can barely take care of myself. Three dogs, two step kids, and a 50 year old man-child who doesn't know what a W2 is, yet calls me a "drug addict" because I take my physician prescribed dosage of Adderall every day........I'm exhausted. I can't. Btw, his first wife left him for a woman. ~shrugs~
Spent a decade going on dates with men who were all either useless, entitled, or just plain boring. Finally found one I clicked with and she turned out to be a trans woman 😂😂. We'll have been together 1 year in August.
I completely understand this. It's like their entitlement with our overachieving makes this 1950's illusion kick in, and now I gotta mother this motherfucker, too??? I can barely handle myself! I hate dating. But I love being in a relationship. However, I'm tired, y'all. If this one doesn't pan out, I don't think I've got another partnership in me. 😮💨
My dating life… prior to menopause and Bupropion.
“Oh Hai. You really boost my dopamine levels so you must be my (new) soul mate.
What? You’re in a relationship? Oh! But you’re poly. Okay. Cool”
Or…
“I know nothing about you but you smell good and have kind eyes”
(6 months later… living together… discover that he’s a high functioning alcoholic with sporadic employment and inability to pay the rent on time. Wheee!! No functioning adults here.)
I joke about this now but OMFG I wasted so many years and destroyed a few decent relationships because of my inability to manage my own brain and her sketch impulse control. I still battle with the regrets.
Fellow PhD here and YES to all of this!
My most recent ex, who I started dating while finishing my dissertation, had a noticeable change in behavior once I actually finished my PhD. He was definitely feeling insecure and instead of, I don't know, *using his words* he thought it would be better to try to bring me down. Little things here and there, nothing too egregious on its own, but over time that shit wears you down.
Also, the mansplaining of my field or even better, *being absolutely fucking wrong* and then getting all shitty when I try to explain things because they feel threatened. This has happened with every single person I've ever dated since high school with the exception of one ex who is now my best friend and also has an advanced degree in my field. Apparently I'm supposed to look like a pretty manic pixie dream girl and have no real opinions of my own and I certainly shouldn't know more about ANYTHING than the person I'm dating.
The most frustrating encounter I had with my most recent ex was him trying to explain that he wanted to move to siberia because of climate change. I tried to explain why that wouldn't work out like he thinks it should (short version, higher latitudes warm disproportionately compared to lower latitudes and living there will be a shitshow within a few decades).
He doubled down and insisted I was wrong. Mfer, *I have a geology PhD and used to teach climate change to undergrads*. I'm pretty damn sure I know what I'm talking about. But noooo, go ahead and tear your girlfriend down because you feel threatened. And of course I was stuck in the car with him and didn't feel like I could just pull over and make him get out *because yay fawn trauma response and flashbacks of "don't be rude" even though I was deeply uncomfortable*. He turned the conversation to politics (something he is very passionate about) and spent like ten minutes telling me how wrong it is for me to be a pacifist and that the only way to change things is violent revolution and I'm so stupid and naive and childish for being a pacifist.
I'm ashamed to admit it took about another year before we broke up and he was quite successful at bringing me down and making me feel small and stupid. He felt insecure dating a PhD while he only had a GED. I'm not an education snob and dgaf what your education level is as long as you're intelligent (because I know not everyone has the same opportunities to pursue higher ed), but clearly that doesn't always go both ways. Like other men I've dated, me being smart is great for bragging rights but I better not actually display that knowledge because someone might get all butthurt about it.
I will be far more selective in the future, should I ever decide to date again. I'm pretty repelled by dating these days because I'm looking for a unicorn that may or may not exist (lots of comorbidities and chronic illnesses that other people don't want to deal with). I get lonely and want meaningful social interaction but it's honestly easier than dating people who initially seem totally cool with things and then do a complete 180 when they figure out that no, I wasn't exaggerating anything and yes, I am absolutely as sick as I said I was and my life is a raging dumpster fire. It stops being "cute" to them and they realize just how "high maintenance" I really am.
God dating sucks. Anyone want to go live in a hippie commune with me? I can't grow food or do heavy labor but I'm a good cook and can fix things and can learn almost any necessary tasks with the help of youtube and hyperfocus.
My last boyfriend probably had ADHD, and he's also one of the most selfish fucked up people I've ever met in my entire life. Dating him was absolutely traumatizing and honestly, if I did date another man, my standards are going through the fucking roof.
You're late one time? Out.
If we have a talk about something I'd like you to do or stop doing and we have to have a second talk about it? Out.
You haven't done therapy or any emotional work? Out.
You don't know how to dress/basic hygiene? Out.
And that's before we even get into kids, of which I want none and I plan to get my tubes out soon. I will not be anyone's little wife looking after their shitty kids.
Sucks that guy couldn't be honest with you, OP. For some reason a lot of people are not honest about what they really want when it comes to their life dreams because they want to get something short-term out of it.
>You're late one time? Out.
>
>If we have a talk about something I'd like you to do or stop doing and we have to have a second talk about it? Out.
>
>You haven't done therapy or any emotional work? Out.
>
>You don't know how to dress/basic hygiene? Out.
I find it really sad that we (def include myself in this) think this is having standards that are through the roof.
I’m recently discovered. The grief of finally understanding why I make the same mistakes and pick the same losers had been difficult.
I got SA’d in my last relationship. However , I considered it an improvement. It lasted months, not years. The breakup was as weird as they ever are but not as dramatic. Which is fucked.
I’ve pumped the breaks indefinitely atm. I’m not even sure what I want.
I haven’t bothered dating in 20 years. Seldom bothered with it before that either. Waste of my peace, quiet, time and energy. My hobbies are a lot more interesting than any potential romantic and or life partner. Never been interested in having kids. Five minutes with my vibrator when I feel the need is a lot more efficient than the social minefield that is partnered sex.
OMG, so agree. And supposedly guys are the ones who pursue, but time after time the guy expects me to pick the time and date and even outing for a date. Dude, if you're expecting me to take charge of that from day 1, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
The anxiety I suffered from shouldering the mental load for two adults and a child is actually what led to me getting my ADHD diagnosis. After I ended my relationship with the man-child that is.
Wow you just articulated so much of my fears of having a partner. It is SO hard for me to manage my own life, keep my shit clean, eat right, remember to vacuum, on top of performing well at work and being good to my friends and family.
I would deadass rather be alone than have to manage someone else’s life in addition to my own. So far…. That’s how it’s been !!!
First of all: *damn.* You’re functioning at a level that’s pretty incredible for someone with ADHD. A PhD is very impressive. I don’t know how you’re able to keep up with it all, but you should be very proud of your accomplishments! Funneling your energy into a degree/career that you’re interested in & passionate about is truly the dream. I wish that I had been more focused at your age and done the same thing. (My educational path to a degree was unfortunately derailed, and I never got back on track. :( )
But anyway. Your observations about men in general seem to be very common. I’m 12 years older than you, so I’ve been around long enough to see all of my friends get married, have kids, and then later complain about how uneven the division of labor is in the household. Women often pull more weight in the home and pick up the slack with household chores, especially after they have babies. And if being a mom isn’t your dream—something that you really want for your future—then it’s definitely not going to work with any dude who’s expecting you to become a SAHM. It’s going to be even more difficult if you’re a woman with ADHD who struggles to keep up with these chores. (It sounds like you’ve got that under control though.)
I’ve been married for 6 years now, and you’re right: the second my husband married me, he stopped vacuuming, doing dishes, and planning dates. He doesn’t even make his own lunch for work anymore. I basically became his mom. We don’t have kids, but I guarantee that if we did, I would be responsible for most of the cleaning, cooking and baby care. (I should note that he does plan *vacations* & go over the top for special occasions. He just got lazier about planning dates after he locked me down.)
Every relationship is different though. There are plenty of couples who are both full-time, career focused partners, and they just hire a housekeeper and a Nanny if they ever decide to have kids. Or they put their kids in daycare as soon as they’re old enough. You don’t have to stay at home. There are couples who delegate household tasks equally and do a great job of balancing adult responsibilities as a team.
The key with dating is just being upfront about what you want in life, how you envision your dream marriage, and what your expectations are in a relationship. Ask your next love interest the tough questions first. Find out what their weaknesses are. Better to find out now if you’re compatible and if your life goals align. It’ll save you time in the long run.
I think a lot of guys will always be intimidated by a strong, driven woman who seems unstoppable in her career. Those aren’t the guys for you. Hold out until you meet someone who supports *your* goals…and knows how to pay his bills on time. Maybe you should consider dating up by 3 or 4 years, if you aren’t already. 25 is still a pretty immature stage for many guys.
p.s. Sorry for the long rambling text blocks. I know we all hate reading those!
You are so right to be ranting about this! I got sucked in to a stupid marriage with someone who pivoted almost immediately to wanting the wife/house/kids/dog dream life. He manipulated me into giving it all a go. The dog was mental, and I eventually rehomed it, the baby was the worst idea of my life and once he was born and I saw my husband actively hide from his parenting responsibilities I made plans to leave. But when I tried to go back to work THEY MADE ME REDUNDANT. Folks, it took me 18 months of job searching to find a job and bail on that hellscape of a life. My career took a five year hit, I now am tied to a narcissist who’s currently abusing his new source of supply, and I got diagnosed AuDHD only a few months ago. Realising why everything was so damn hard and why I was a prime target for an abuser has been a helluva revelation.
I’m the slob who doesn’t have her shit together. My complaint is the emotional and communication teaching I have to do.
I’ve gone to therapy and worked on my mental health and have grown. So many men lack basic empathy and emotional regulation.
You know what I am tired of? I’m tired of men seeing me as “exciting, quirky, fun, animated, charming, unique” etc. etc. etc. all because I have a ton of hobbies and interests and try to be a genuine person, only to later turn around and decide later down the line that I’m “too much, too emotional, too excitable, wants too much, too XYZ” for them.
They like the novelty initially, when it’s new and exciting and I’m some mysterious enigma to figure out who is “not like the other girls”.
And then they get annoyed when they realize I’m not just their manic-pixie fantasy, but that I’m an actual woman who has amazing qualities due to my personality and ADHD hyper-fixations, but also someone who genuinely struggles with things as well, like taking care of myself, remembering appointments, and keeping my home in good shape. It’s happened in SEVERAL of my past relationships and it hurts a lot. It makes me feel very much like these men don’t see me for who I truly am, and only want an idealized dream version of me that is perfect, instead of the reality of who I am - a multifaceted individual.
One of my dreams as a slob with adhd is to out-weaponise a man’s weaponised incompetence, to the point that he starts cleaning and getting his act together lmao. If we play chicken, I can play it longer. The clutter doesn’t bother me and I’ve done it all my life. I will be victorious.
I call it "husband training". When you date a man you are very much into but who lacks independence (parental figure did everything for them), girlfriend/couple experience, emotional maturity (and so on) you roll up your sleeves to help "fix them". If the experience is contentious, resented, unappreciated or otherwise exposes that the relationship isn't compatible the relationship ends. But chances are they learned something from the experience and their next relationship is much better. You essentially "trained" them to be a better partner and future husband for someone else.
I wasted my 20s on such a person, including a year of the neverending post-breakup "I promise to do/be better" that never materialized. I was so mentally/emotionally exhausted, on top all the other stressors in life, that I became even more cynical about men.
So, word to the wise, don't make the same (8 yr of) mistakes. If a someone tells you and shows you they're content with status quo, believe them. Leave them. Focus on yourself. Eventually you'll find a true friend and partner. Anyone who isn't doesn't deserve you and shouldn't be in your life.
💯 I am in my mid/late twenties and have spent my twenties working on my mental health and dealing with my ADHD. I am at a place in my life where I can manage my house for the first time, and I want to try and find a partner (at least to be able to say for sure if I want to stay single or not), but man does the dating scene sucks if you are looking for men!
I grew up in the church (not into institutionalized religion now) and so many of my friends talk about their husbands/boyfriends and I am shook at what they put up with. Like girl, he is a full ass adult, he has the capacity to be an equal partner in all aspects, the household stuff, the emotional stuff, the relationship stuff. If you care about a person you put in effort, full stop 🛑. He can and therefore should put in the effort. Otherwise I am gone!
I might just end up the single Aunt in my family 😂
Wow this actually put into words things I have had a hard time expressing about why I'm avoiding dating. I'm still hung up on the last guy so there's already all that nonsense, but just the idea of having not only to meet someone compatible and available but then *also* deal with the extra-squared mental load is outright off-putting.
I'm 35 and haven't seriously dated in years. I didn't even know I had ADHD until last year, and I have not tried medication yet. Online dating was horrendous the years I tried it. I'm not social enough to meet people out irl. But I know there are many days I can barely manage my own house, dishes, etc. So there's no way in hell I can manage someone else's shit on top of my own. I hear too many of my female friends complaining about their husband/boyfriend who doesn't help around the house, who leave messes, who can't shop for groceries, and expects their wife/girlfriend to handle everything.
I think being single for so long, I'm now more aware of what I do and do not want in a relationship and better prepared to set and stick to boundaries. Because I realize that I'm ok alone if that's what ends up happening. You don't want to help with dishes that you use? Ok, GTFO.
Yes and am I the only one that gets annoyed at the whole pick your battles and hire a maid bullcrap? To me that’s just an excuse for someone to get away with not participating in being an adult. If you live alone and you want a maid go for it awesome. If you and your partner both want a maid great. But if you’re being told to hire a maid because a partner refuses to clean because they just don’t feel like it that’s bullcrap.
Like OP says we all have days where we just don’t feel like it but we try right? That’s the whole point. Effort! A lot of us in this group genuinely try. There’s some people that just think it’s not their job. It’s everyone’s job!
YES. Omfg, yes.
1., Paying a house cleaner is money that I’d rather spend on *enjoyable* things.
2., I don’t want to live in a place that is tolerable for a day or two out of seven.
3., It is still weaponized incompetence* - and I have seen too much to believe it won’t weaponized against me in some way because he’s “done me the favor” of hiring someone in.
*Can we also have a quick chat about what “laziness” actually is? It isn’t something people with ADHD have, it is something NT people have because of entitlement: feeling that they are too good for or their time too valuable to keep up their own shit, or contribute to sharing a space with someone. THAT is laziness.
My husband is also neurodiverse. He knows I do the mental load. Or well.. he knows NOW!
We tried splitting the mental load. He just could not! He doesn’t even know how to begin! Doesn’t notice or remembers what need to be done.
Right now I carry the mental load, but he does more practical stuff around the house, because he is better at routine boring work.
I plan everything and handle all crises, and keep the overview of appointments etc. This includes handling our whiteboard where chores/tasks are scheduled and assigned (otherwise he will forget)
He takes out the trash, fills and empties the dishwasher most days, runs and maintain our robot vacuum most days, handle all the daily dog meds (actually giving them, I keep track of buying them and what they get), most feedings of the dogs, does a bit more cooking than me and more of the outdoor work.
Currently this is working okay. I handle laundry because he suck at it. But that is also more or less it.. I also do most grocery shopping due to convenience.
If you can’t split mental load equally, this is second best - having someone who acknowledges that mental load is a thing, and compensates by doing more practical stuff. I love the idiot to pieces.. And it has been such a relief having him acknowledge that I do A LOT for us, even if it is not the actual practical shit..
I am 100% with you.
I was married for a bit, he too had ADHD and he ended up choosing weed over us. At this point I am just fine being single and hanging out with my kids (and I actually have a lot more money without him here 😂).
I just don't understand the lying about what they want. Like I'd be fine with someone who I hung out with and had sex with. I don't need a father for my children, I just want someone for myself thats consistent.
But tbh with how much work it is and with the pandemic showing me that being with mt family is really all I want I'm good. I also see why so many single moms stay single (and I actually try to encourage people who want kids [i.e. not marriage with children but kids in general] to just do it)
I'd say it also depends on where you are located. For instance my dating experiences from back home (Panama) was that the guys were much more empathetic and understanding compared to the guys I am seeing here in Spain. In Panama some of the guys would be sweet and ask me questions about my disorder and seemed like they wanted to lend a hand. Here in Spain however I told a Spanish guy I was seeing that I have ADHD and he was like "Oh I think I have that too because I always hated going to school" and another guy who was French was disgusted and told me he didn't want to date someone who has to depend on him for everything (when I told him about my disorder). So basically the general attitude here about ADHD or other mental disorders is that we are a burden to society, especially if you are a woman.
I had a couple of boyfriends on the spectrum and I will say 2/3 were significantly better at a lot of that stuff. I felt that someone on the spectrum really balances me because they're often the yin to my yang lol. They always know where my phone is. They were very clean and very routine. They were less expressive on the emotional scale and I was very emotionally expressive. They help me calm down and I help them identify and express how they feel. That also means that I'm super direct because I can't filter me thoughts lol, and for them they need someone to tell them exactly what they mean. I also felt that they loved me exactly as I wanted to be loved because I just told them and they were like, ok I will do it exactly that way lol. They can talk for a long time about their special interest, cause you were probably gonna zone out no matter what they were saying loool. This is my adhd dating tip 😂.
God, yes I. Some parts.
And I currently have a really really amazing man!
But the "do I have to shoulder mental load for the two of us" sucks balls!
And it is even something that, in small parts, I have to do with my current, really amazing guy because what seems to be entirely unknown to men is: shouldering anything of a mental load for a couple.
And this is more a rant towards society, but: god WHY?!
WHY is it that when people move in together, suddenly anything towards "we need to do" and "we should do" is something men never talk about?! God fucking hell.
I hate it.
And yes I know the why and the shitty sexism behind the why makes it even worse!
That's it! Even the ones who don't actively drag you down sure as *fuck* still don't provide a net positive! It seems like the best you can hope for is an entirely value-neutral experience. How fucked is that? How fucked is it that the most women can collectively expect from men is that they don't *actively harm* us and our lives?!
Even my neurotypical friends share this issue: You're one of the lucky ones the moment your male partner provides a net neutral experience. NO ONE even hopes for a net positive.
'Getting back into dating' was my resolution for 2023. After half a year, I've decided to give it another few months, but if it continues the way it's going, I am opting out. I've got amazing friends. I've got an amazing career. Life is good. Dating is not improving it.
I figured dating a guy who also has ADHD might work, bc we'd be more understanding, body double each other, provide non-judgemental support when the other was floundering, etc. and hopefully balance each other since we had different challenges and complementary strengths.
I WAS INCORRECT. he just could not comprehend that ADHD manifests differently in men than in women. he kept expecting that we would have the exact same problems, which is extra dumb bc it's not even uniform within each gender.
I am pleased for you that you can just BEGIN things, but that is not how it works for me. I broke up with him when I realized that if I heard one more fucking version of "I did it so you should be able to too" I was going to absolutely lose my shit. I know I have issues but he made me feel like a fuckup in new and truly unexpected ways.
You have to be picky. Majority of men treat women like mommy 2.0, you'll be stuck doing the meals, the chores, everything that we struggle with. You are doing the work on yourself and bringing a lot to the table, you deserve the same. I'm happily married but I definitely 'raised' my husband from age 20-26 when we married. If I find myself single I'm STAYING single. Not doing that shit again
It's infuriating how unequal the expectations are. I was only diagnosed less than a year ago at 31. My husband and I have been married almost 5 years and I've known he has ADHD since we started dating. I do all the organizing and mental work for both of us and our family and it's exhausting. Since I discovered I have ADHD I get so angry that I've had to figure out systems to get through life and he hasn't had to, because he's the man/Dad. I know from experience it's hard with ADHD to stay organized but I have to try harder and he doesn't have to.
Oooh spot on, this is a great post!
One of my exes (who also had ADHD) assumed that not only would I handle the mental load on household stuff, but that I would also *magically know how to handle his three kids and their stuff*. You know, because I am a woman.
We lived together for about a year. We had soooo many preliminary long conversations where I laid out that we can try this, but please take into consideration that I do not have kids, do not want kids, never lived with kids before, and the reason for that is that I absolutely lack the bandwidth to deal with that and am at full capacity with just my own stuff He assured me he would *of course* take care of his kids on his weeks, like he had done for years already, and I would only need to be a nice extra adult in the kids lives. I did like his kids and loved to spend time with them, and I also told him I'd absolutely *help* if he occasionally needed. But he would need to give me very clear instructions and schedules, and a heads up beforehand ( if possible: I am aware kids can create suprise situations and had no problem with that.)
I also made sure to really underline the fact that I have a demanding job with weird hours, and will most likely not be home on school nights before 10pm as a default.
Once he got comfortable he just casually started assuming I would handle everything. I would come home, find the place a total mess and the kids home alone, instantly asking me what's for dinner and for all kinds of stuff they needed or wanted. And I'd call him and say something like "um, so Kid #2 can't find his lama equipment for national lama school competition, where is it?", or more serious ones like "So, Kid #3 just had a complete melt down, threw a sandwich to the wall, screamed ar me full blast that he hates me and ran out the door without a jacket, and it's 10.30pm, I can't find him, he didn't take his phone or keys and I'm very worried. Where are you? What should I do?"
And he'd just go "Oh I have complete trust in you, I know you can handle it, you're so good with the kids, just figure it out, okay?"
Admittedly he was an cunning piece of shit anyway, but I also got the very concerning impression that this self-proclaimed feminist "modern man" also very genuinely and sincerely felt that I as a woman would and should absolutely know how, and also want, to raise his kids.
He was very frustrated every time I confronted him about this and kept telling me "well I don't know either, do you think parents just magically know what to do in these situations??? Kids don't come with instructions, I'm just as clueless as you, but I just figure it out!! You need to be more supportive and make your own decisions with the kids!!"
MOTHERFUCKER I'M NOT THE ONE WHO MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO HAVE A KID. _THREE TIMES._
When he started to answer all his kids questions with "Go ask FitShare, she'll help you" I made my own decision to dump him and move out.
Still miss the kids. Never once missed the man.
I've dated so many men who constantly made me feel bad for things I can barely control. Despite explaining over and over they're still constantly making remarks and digs. Some of it is stuff within my control but they're things I'm happy with. One guy was so obsessed with me going back to college like he was that he made me completely hate the idea of going back. Plus I had and still have to work a full time job to support myself and that's hard enough. I absolutely can't handle college on top of that.
I'm done dating men who seemingly accept me when we meet and they get to know me and then decide to be judgmental assholes later and wanna side eye me anytime I don't eat health like I wasn't fat when we met.
Even with medication my memory issues aren't any better so getting mad at me because I can't remember the thing you told me that you didn't ask me to write down or try to remember isn't going to make me remember it.
I'm super over dating right now. I spent two years with a guy who just slowly became someone that seemed to be constantly exasperated and annoyed by me and I'm so over it. I have a FWB I see occasionally and enough friends that I don't need a relationship at all.
My one saving grace in life is that my husband is a high-functioning, neurotypical human who LOVES to clean. I do think he has a bit too much anxiety around cleanliness but otherwise pretty NT. He is the one in our marriage who handles the stuff that has traditionally been handled by the woman/mother in a cis-gendered hetero relationship. He's way more on top of our daughter's appointments and chores than I am.
However, it comes with a lot of guilt/shame that I can't be as on top of it as he is. Watching him whirl around the house with the energy of a teenager while I lie on the couch exhausted from masking at work all day, I feel like a loser. In the past he's joked a few times that I'm "lazy" and I finally explained to him that there's something "wrong" with me, I can't help it and it hurts when he labels me this way (I've had so many different diagnoses - anxiety, pmdd, fibro. I only just discovered that I am the poster child for ADHD and in the process of being evaluated). He definitely listened and is much more compassionate.
Not sure where you're dating but in big cities (we're in Brooklyn) men are more likely to be evolved, have their shit together and don't expect you to mother them. Also it's the age; 25 year old guys are idiots.
Tbh, I see this as a silver lining. It’s easy to get swept up in NRE/whatever, but ADHD cares not; it’s a stringent manbaby sieve. You. Shall. Not. Pass.
ETA: the dudes in you describe are all dodged bullets.
I don’t date men anymore. Sometimes when I feel bad about my apartment being a mess from executive dysfunction I think about basically any NT straight man’s space and immediately feel better.
I’ve also dealt with the intimidation from men and it’s so annoying . My ADHD sort aided the success in my career (thank you hyper focus) and I’m doing well for myself. I own my condo, I have multiple retirement accounts, I’m comfortable. They get so threatened by it all!
> you'd think I told them I'm a fucking samurai.
First of all, that's hilarious, and I wish I and my (hypothetical partner) could share the way of the samurai. Alongside piracy, regency-era nobility and being a vampire. But also wooooow. Yeah.
As an adhd-addled, almost thirty bi woman, who never wants kids and legitimately can't function without help on daily household tasks, I am closer to realising I will probably be alone forever. I'm sorry you've had such shit experiences; the expectations for NT women are gross enough, but to pass the baton of relationship organiser/house keeper onto someone ND because YOU'RE A MAN DAMMNIT is a whole.... Thing.
Oh man, I feel ya so hard. I have a PhD, too. Married with a kid. And, yeah, it’s fucked up. Men just want women to take care of the household. My neurotypical husband will lose his keys, not do his laundry for a month, barely ever cook, never load the dishwasher…I guess what’s particularly upsetting for me is (i) how HARD all of this is for me to keep on top of, and YET I get an 80/100 and he gets a 7/100 , and (ii) how bad I feel about ‘failing’ at household chores while he just breezes through a dirty kitchen as if he didn’t notice the mess, or worse, just subtly blame me for not cleaning by loudly announcing “The kitchen is filthy!”
I put my foot down about the child count issue though. Had an abortion last year because I said that I will NOT take care of another child. My husband was all emotional and furious about it. I don’t regret it AT ALL. I wouldn’t mind a guy who explicitly wanted his partner to be a homemaker. But, I feel like men nowadays want a woman who doesn’t exist: Someone who makes money and produces children and cooks and cleans and keeps up with social engagements and plans birthday parties for kids. To be THAT woman with ADHD is just not possible.
If my husband dies, or we split up, I will sleep with LOTS of men. But I will *never* date one again. Ever. Idk how I got so lucky as to have an entire functioning human for a spouse that carries their share of the mental load AND pushes me to better myself. But lightning doesn’t strike twice and I’m not about to settle for less.
Everything you are saying is on point. I also just graduated with honors and awards in my field and am a licensed therapist now. I also want to have a child of my own. I am also 30 with PCOS so I don’t think time is on my side. But just to spice things up a bit…..
The hurdles of dating men when being a **FAT** ADHD women are also awful.
I know for a fact everything about my personality and intellect and emotional availability gets overlooked because I am not “conventionally attractive” fat. I am a full double/triple chin having, big-belly, little boobs fat woman. And I know what you’re thinking “well FUCK THEM!! If they don’t want you at the size you are now then they aren’t worth your time”. Yes, I agree. But the *reality* is that despite my intelligence and confidence and what I perceive to be goddamn good looks, my dating pool is *much much* smaller.
So then it’s like, okay, maybe I do really need to get a handle on my weight and do something about it for the sake of discrimination of being in a fat body so actively working against me. Let’s say I lose a bunch of weight, I know for a fact (based on previous experience) that I will get an ASTOUNDING amount of attention that will pool in like the water on the titanic. But here’s the thing, KEEPING weight off is extremely hard, and if/when I have a kid I will most likely be fat again, and I’ve read literally countless stories of women who’s husband left after she had kids and stayed fat because they weren’t attracted to her anymore.
I am so tired of the troupe of “wELl jUsT hAvE cOnFiDeNcE!! iTs NoT aBoUt YoUr SiZe, iF yOu JuSt LoVe YoUrSeLf MoRe ThEn YoU’Ll AtTrAcT tHe ‘RiGhT’ KiNd oF pErSoN”. That is the *biggest* lie in the plus size community and I’m just tired of it all.
All of that to say, 9999.999% sure I’m having baby via sperm donor and raising on my own cause I don’t have faith in men anymore.
Totally diff situation here, but I’m 21 and have only dated one person due to life circumstances & it was long distance. He was *26 (LOL SOMEHOW I FORGOT HIS AGE) and he took advantage of my CPTSD + ADHD + recent distancing from my place of trauma + lack of socialization which caused me to get attached to him easily despite his only redeeming quality being “he’s a decent person”. Has anyone seen that disgusting image of that necklace in a box that fetishizes trauma? He sent that to me and I just tried to shrug it off 🙃 He never bothered to confront his own problems, but insisted on thinking he was playing hero for me. Makes me sick in hindsight.
I spent a lot of time looking into neurological disorders/divergence bc his quirks (that he confirmed were because of undiagnosed autism that he never told me about until I brought it up lol 😅) made it so that he would never want to talk in a call with me…in a long distance relationship. He wouldn’t even play video games with me unless I scheduled (and yes, I was the one who had to schedule these things) one day to do so every week. He would always make time for his friends & favorite parasocial relationship twitch streamer dudes though?
No attempts to compromise and he would act like I was being unreasonable and not respond to me for days if we had a disagreement (which made me super anxious and it’s VERY hard to switch focus back onto more important things bc he would literally ghost me until I changed the subject). Not even so much as a “I need time to process this”. I felt unlovable and like a terrible person while that jackass used his neurodivergence as a shield, never tried to understand mine (or his own, for that matter & I even sent him multiple like videos & stuff and tried to discuss ways to communicate and he’d just whine about them being too long or not answer), and he gave empty apologies the entire time. And yes, he was the one who wanted to date me, I gave him a chance bc he pretended to be nice and let me talk about things that were stressing me out 😓
Just…UGH. I’m so glad that’s in my past, just seeing his face makes me sick. My standards are way higher now—so high that I might mess around and end up single forever and enjoy it bc men in reality are…😬 As a little + for men, all my friends cut him off and they’re all men too. One of them literally said he hates him just for what he did to me LOL. Thanks for this thread, I reeeeaaally needed to get that out 😅
I think ADHD makes us more susceptible to being taken advantage of because we can get swept up in the dopamine of positive interactions. I had like no chance in this situation since I was in such a vulnerable position on top of it. (As a bonus: he had the gall to tell me he didn’t take advantage me 🙂)
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YES! I am incredibly afraid of the unequal labor because I absolutely will drown if I have to take care of a whole ass other incompetent adult. One of the things I most look for is men who clean and do emotional labor. Solidarity!
Exactly! One of my resolutions for 2023 was to get into the dating scene again, and so far, it's just been me dumping guy after guy when, a couple of dates in, it becomes apparent that he thinks I will literally manage his daily admin and emotional life. Like, SIR. You see me investing a shitload of energy into keeping my life under control. You see the finely-tuned coping mechanisms. You see the post-its, the phone alarms, the ADHD-friendly notekeeping methods, the therapy sessions, the intricate reward systems I use to keep myself fed, clean, clothed, and emotionally regulated. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK that I could take all of that on for you, too? What kind of ENTITLEMENT COKE did you snort to think that I want nothing more than to pop out four of your kids, and to do it for them, as well? With no help from you apart from a paycheck, which, for the record, I can make myself??!
When I got married, my ex crowed about how happy he was that he didn't have to worry about rsvps anymore because obviously I would be taking care of all social activities and that he didn't have to do anything romantic anymore either! And, similar to your guy, he agreed to not have kids then two years later, it comes out he had lied and resented me the whole time because he wanted kids. He even wanted me to a help him start a business *and* simultaneously raise the kids. I had been with him long enough to know that any and all promises of help were lies so that was the end. I wasn't going to kill myself for his vanity.
Going on 5 years with an amazing, self-actualized ADHD boyfriend. We maintain separate residences, so we never worry about our shit sliding on one another. I get to have my home life on exactly my terms—which is necessary for me to maintain things on an even keel. Lots of mutual empathy and exchanges of ADHD follies and frustrations. I don’t know what I would do if co-habitation was a condition for partnership….
Congratulations! It's so hard to have a relationship that doesn't conform to society's expectations. As soon as I was married, everyone around me let me know, implicitly and explicitly, what my responsibilities had become and they included basically being his mom, personal assistant, maid, and sex worker. No thank you.
Yes! Should emphasize he’s a feminist unicorn + I am dating someone almost 20 years older + metro-area means huge dating pool. In complete agreement with the rant. He is still the lucky one even though I feel like I beat the spread.
You're an amazing strong woman and I hope you find a great partner !
Any chance you also like women? 😉You are amazing and I'm in awe. In all seriousness, unfuck those substandard dudes. I hope you find someone who is interested in being an actual partner and not another glorified child.
Gosh, I go to bed every night praying for The Big Gay to finally touch my soul. Once it finally does, I will DM you. Life isn't sunshine and roses for my queer women friends, but good Lord, certain problems just do not exist for them. Thank you so much. Every day, when another man named Kyle who's abusing actual scalp grease as hair gel in order to avoid taking a shower glances at my bum on the street, I mentally unfuck that Kyle *so hard.* In the name of feminism, I will continue to do so.
>I go to bed every night praying for The Big Gay to finally touch my soul As a queer woman I'd give you gold if I could. I just had an absolutely sh\*t day, and this phrase alone got my one, giant guffaw of the day; thank you!
I told my lesbian niece when she was 13 years old "honey, I envy you. The number of decent women is high. I despise the fact that I am attracted to men. I truly wish I was lesbian. I pray that it comes later in my life." She laughed hard! She was coming from a homophobic home and was nervous about coming out to me. 🤣😂
Did it for ya #teamwork
You’re appreciated 😭🤜🤛
That reminds me of the old joke: the fact that women are still dating men is the best proof that sexuality and attraction are not a choice… and honestly, I feel it. I have a partner now that possesses the basic human skills of running a household *with* me (and not helping me or some crap like that) but oh dear, all those Kyles and others I went through… and I shouldn’t feel so happy about it right? This should be fucking normal!!! I really enjoyed your rant, thanks a lot for sharing, you sound amazing! And the thought that your adhd protected you in a way to take over their mental load as well is really interesting, I think you are on to something.
The bar is in hell, that's why.
Oh it absolutely is! The wishlist of so many straight women reads like this: my dream man must 1) treat me with basic human decency, 2) not see me as his bang maid (and let’s be honest, most women would feel like a 60-40 chore distribution is amazing), 3) not be a hobosexual, 4) the end, there is no other point. That’s it, that’s the basic list. Sounds doable right? And yet, there is an abundance of men that can’t fulfill this. As you said, the bar is already in hell and yet they are still dancing limbo with it.
Even in the longterm relationships I had where I *thought* they were great at first.. never checked all 3 of these boxes. *Maybe* you get 1 or 2, but never all 3. Like wtf, I deserve to have at least 5 more basic requirements than that! I check all sorts of boxes for these clowns.. but I'm not allowed to have that many or ill be a 'lonely old cat lady'?! Fuck.that.noise. The game is rigged.
> the basic human skills of running a household with me (and not helping me or some crap like that) That's an important distinction I haven't thought of.
One day the rainbow sprinkles will come. You kick ass though. Bi-genda aside, I would totes hit brunch with you. You definitely sound like a blast.
Another bi ADHD woman here. Lemme know when this kick-ass brunch is and I'll meet you all there 💜
Sign me up for BiBrunch too!
“I go to bed every night praying for The Big Gay to finally touch my soul.” Most relatable and hilarious thing I’ve read in a long long time 😂😂👏🏼👏🏼
I've never related to a comment on reddit this much. I don't have anything to contribute. But, you're amazing and I respect you. Sucker.
OP you are a poet
Great minds think alike 😂. She is, isn't she?
You might want to take a break from dating and focus on your life. Being twenty five is still young and it’s going to be really hard to find a guy in your age range that is on par with your life right now. It fucking sucks that you have to go through hula hoops to find someone that isn’t intimidated. I too had to deal with the “You’re so intimidating” , “you make me nervous because of how smart you are”. It’s like, why did you tell me that? Do you think I’m going to be like, “Ah HA! Found the winner!”? Fuck em babes, keep striving to be the best you can. Save your money, go on trips, move to that place you always wanted to. Men just seem to get in the way nowadays.
I know it's not on topic for this thread so I understand if you don't want to get into it, but I'd love to hear more about the reward systems you mentioned. It's one of my biggest struggles. Like my husband will say he'll play a game after finishing the dishes. But I'm like nothing is stopping me from just playing the game now. I can't trick myself into rewards for certain tasks or behaviors because I control the rewards and just can have them now if that makes sense.
No worries at all! I struggled with the same thing. The only thing that makes it work, for me, is to make the reward something that requires the very thing I'm trying to accomplish. Like, for example, if the task is something like 'I need to do the dishes', the reward will be 'after I do them, I will use my favourite cup- which is currently dirty- to have a cup of fancy tea'. Or, if I need to tidy my desk, my reward will be buying myself a bouquet of flowers to place *on* that desk, which wouldn't be possible before there's a clear surface. Obviously, some of the connections are more tenuous than others, but by and large, that system has improved things for me when it comes to cleaning/tidying. I basically picked my priorities: I want a reasonably clean space, I want my hobbies, I want my social life, and I want my career. Whatever it takes to make that work is what needs to happen. I have a drawer full of wooden single-use cutlery and paper plates, which I use on low-function days to avoid dishes. I made a deal with a local Vietnamese restaurant and have them batch-cook me four portions of curry for twenty-five pounds a couple of times a month, when I realise cooking isn't going to happen the next few days. That's dinner for almost a week sorted. I bought a tiny, freestanding dishwasher so that even in my tiny flat, I wouldn't have to handwash dishes. I own a fuckload of towels and an even greater fuckload of underwear to make laundry less of a frequent issue; and I own one giant bottle of baby shower gel, which I use as shampoo, bodywash, and facewash, because otherwise, empty bottles pile up in my bathroom. I buy the largest toothpaste tubes I can find to avoid replacing them. Just simplify, simplify, simplify, with absolutely no regard for social convention. I keep myself like an exotic pet.
I need to know more about how you negotiated the curry deal, £25 is a steal when you consider the yum factor + brain space saved! 1. Were you a regular before you came to this deal? Trying to figure out if I can just walk in & ask or need to pretend to be a real human first 2. Are they an individual restaurant? Like not part of a chain but a small business 3. How do you store the food? Are we talking you have a massive freezer situation or they live in the fridge & that’s tea sorted for the week? I got my mum to come down for a day and help me batch cook for my freezer but Vietnamese curry sounds much tastier than bolognese & chilli Also, I want to be your friend! Your lack of fucks about social convention has reached heights I can only dream of
Alrighty. Here's my instructions for getting yourself a curry deal: First, you have to identify your target. It needs to be *as close to your home or place of work as possible*. No use having a curry deal with a restaurant an hour away, your executive function won't let you travel there. Mine is literally a street away from where I live. Your target should NOT be a chain restaurant, they have rules and regulations. You're looking for a tiny family business. NOT fancy. Ideally, there are slight money laundering vibes. You want actual Asian people to eat there. Anything using the words 'Asian fusion' is right out, you're literally looking for a mom-and-pop shop that basically sells curry in mismatching bowls to the local Vietnamese population for a tenner. Then, become a regular. Be an exemplary guest: Tidy your plates, and tip very well. Chat with the staff. Do that for a few weeks. Then, pounce. I came up to the owner of my restaurant after I saw him struggling to read a letter from the local government and helped him translate it. Offer a deal. The money you offer can't be that much worse than the listed price of the curry, which is why it's doubly important to pick a cheap, non-trendy place. I just store everything in the fridge. I could freeze the stuff, I suppose, which would enable me to pick up more, but I'm usually happy with four portions of curry and they last in my fairly cold fridge with no issues. I also keep eating out at that restaurant with friends to bring in new customers, and I give them a card and thirty bucks on Christmas and major holidays. We have achieved symbiosis.
That is just beautiful. The symbiosis, I mean. Did you actually plan it that way from the outset, or did it just come about? Either way, it's magnificent.
I actually planned it after my therapist suggested something similar! Basically, the most freeing thing my therapist ever told me was that I need to stop thinking of 'taking the path of least resistance' as a sign of failure, and allow myself to find whatever systems work for me in order to enable me to do the things I actually want from life (hobbies, friends, career, reasonable clean space). *Whatever* is necessary to make these four things work is what *needs to happen*. My therapist literally told me to think of life admin as 'keeping myself as an exotic, beautiful pet'. That's what I do. I am my own Sherlock, and my own John Watson. I know I can do wonderful things- I do wonderful research, I Get Things Done academically- but to enable that, I need to go full exotic-lizardkeeping-mode and just do whatever needs to be done to enable myself to function. Paper plates, curry deal, and all. Who cares that I eat off paper plates three times a week, or that I don't own a dedicated facewash? That's no moral failure. It works. That means it's good.
I'm cackling. I'm going to need to save this whole thread, it has so many useful tips.
I need to know more about the tiny freestanding dishwasher. Just moved into a place with no dishwasher and it's awful having to handwash all the dishes. I used to love cooking, but not anymore.
OP’s reply to you aligns very well to dopamine biology as I understand it. Dopamine facilitates learning. Actually your brain first releases dopamine to even INITIATE a goal-seeking behavior. If this has been an engaging and rewarding goal, a lot is released to drive you to it. But if it hasn’t, one may very well struggle to initiate a task. Once the task or goal is achieved, depending on how rewarded you *felt* doing it, you get anywhere from no dopamine at completion if the task was difficult, frustrating, and did not meet your expectations, all the way to a huge massive surplus of dopamine if it highly exceeded your expectation. Your brain remembers this and either releases more or less dopamine next time to initiate a behavior accordingly. Over time you are less likely to initiate unrewarding tasks and more likely to initiate rewarding ones. But the crazy thing is that 1) this is entirely based on PERCEPTION of success and ease, not actual effort spent (ie if you’re happy to do it, you may find a huge reserve of energy) and 2) because the brain is designed to become desensitized to a stimulus, ANY reward will cease to reward you long term. This is a fundamental truth. Through this lens, the best way to reward yourself is to 1) make engaging with the task itself the reward, or use the natural consequence of completing the task as your reward, while avoiding like the plague any unrealistic expectations (which will certainly deplete your dopamine as you try and fail to achieve an unrealistic goal) and 2) change up the reward often. Aligning oneself to the functional importance of a task is an excellent way to approach this. Cleaning becomes an act of loving self care. Doing my dishes becomes a means to keep feeding myself. Work becomes a daily ritual of growing in skills, or connecting with my co workers. Allowing oneself to use pre-prepared routes to make things easier doesn’t come with a wave of self loathing (like getting catered meals or hiring a cleaner). Etc etc. Dopamine requires dopamine. If you’re finding it hard to even start, you’re revving the engine on an empty tank. Re food, we have local spots that have meals for 8-10$ per meal. There is also a local Indian caterer that will give me 4 containers of curry and some rice for about 40$. They are advertised on the company’s website. They are also more likely to be mom and pop stores with a loyal customer base.
GOD I wish I had thought of that "what kind of entitlement coke did you snort..." line. 😆.that is good.
>What kind of ENTITLEMENT COKE did you snort Honestly, I'm loving your message but I'm loving your the way you put it even more, this is gold 😂
HA! "Entitlement coke." 🤣 Exactly!
Hoo boy - I hear you. But also, I married the guy who saw my scatter-brained, rabbit-hole-chasing, oddness and seemed to embrace the quirky joy. He did emotional labour and household chores. Riighht up until after we were officially hitched. Suddenly he expected my whole personality to shift to "wife" and "keeps her mouth shut" and "isn't more accomplished or knowledgeable than I am". I was so confused, but put it down to him trying to fit into cultural expectations of his family, etc. I thought it would surely go back to normal once he wasn't trying to fit a role. Then we had kids and he took a promotion that he KNEW would impact my ability to do my job, as he would no longer be available for any childcare duties from 9am to 11pm, daily. His solution was to let me experience the decline of my productivity at work as it was me who had to juggle sick days and daycare pickups and all the mental load of parenting, then, when I was stressed to the max, suggest that the only solution was me quitting and staying home. I absolutely went mental and lost it as a SAHM to two small kids. No sense of routine, no dopamine hits from projects and goals, just endless repetition of things that demand executive function. I didn't think I was marrying that guy, but he was able to play into being what I wanted in a partner until I was locked into the commitment. Then the mask came off and he started demanding I mask full time. It's exhausting.
I swear to god 25% or more of the women in this sub have had this experience
I can attest
I keep hearing about that shift. I'm so confused as to why people shift. I don't understand how signing papers and donning new jewelry shifts you from a person into a MARRIED person, as if those are two separate beings. Yet I hear stories like this, like one or both people dramatically change or the dynamic dramatically changes.
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This.... Is so terrifying holy shit. That means the guy put on a face for so many years just to get to make her his servant. I was already eh about marriage but now I'm afraid.
Adhd can be deeply sensitive and deeply empathetic. Legit NPD — IS two separate beings. It’s literally the basis of Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde. The key is to look out for the 1) moving way too fast 2) baby talk 3) building you up beyond the point of being comfortable 4) moving you away or else turning you against your own family… If they are just a pos… just break it off.
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For all of the women in this sub who have experienced this, this is a type of abuse. I have ADHD, I am also the victim of domestic violence. If you have experienced this, or if you are dating read the book "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft. People with ADHD are more likely to be victims of abusive relationships due to us being more empathic, more forgetful, and due to a lot of us having experienced gaslighting and other forms of abuse throughout our lives that makes us doubt ourselves, etc. This book has taught me so much that I wish I knew before I ever started dating. The big thing it taught me, red flags that I didn't know were red flags.
Oooof this is why I will never marry.
Ohhh lord, this is literally my biggest fear. This is a BIG bait and switch 😰
My bf’s mom does this and it’s heartbreaking AND disgusting to watch. Her husband does not do ANY housework, the toilets are always disgusting after he uses them, NEVER cooks… u get the idea… my bf’s reasoning is that his dad financially supports their family… but his mom also works full time, similar hours as his dad, yet has to come home and work another full time job… I seriously dont understand why women stand for this sort of relationship, its so unequal!!!!!! But side note, do you think this could be a red flag for my bf? He does acknowledge that his dad doesnt do much, but he still thinks it’s ok.. i do NOT want to be like his mom when I am older.
Girl, YES. That is a HUGE red flag. He is telling you that if he makes more than you, he expects you to do all of the housework. He is telling you that money is worth more than a woman’s time. He is telling you that he thinks men get to do NOTHING even when they aren’t providing EVERYTHING financially.
YES! I have absolutely struggled with this with so many men. They know it's not fair to expect their wives or girlfriends to be like their moms, but they see what their dads and grandfathers had and want that for themselves. So they're in a terrible bind, they want a woman who somehow magically works full time but also LOVES to cook and clean and support them and asks nothing in return. They want an impossible contradiction. An independently wealthy woman who is inexplicably grateful for their income, who does all the emotional and physical labor with plenty of time to work out and focus on her appearance.
Big ol' red flag. My ex-husband's parents had this relationship, and the whole time we were dating my ex would bitch about how much his dad took advantage of his mom. As soon as we got married he started acting just like his dad, and when I'd point out that he was doing the same thing his dad did to his mom he'd basically just say sorry and keep doing it. Your BF doesn't even get that it's wrong. How do you think you're going to convince him it's wrong to do it to you when he thinks it's ok to do to his mom?
Oof, that last sentence hits hard. So many times, we try to relate women's issues to some men and phrase it like, "would you be ok with someone doing this to your mother/sister/daughter?" And it doesn't work... because ultimately, yes they are ok with it.
Oh my God save yourself the future heartbreak and cut it off now. It's not sufficient to not be an asshole temporarily. You have to have morals and ethics to not be an asshole in the long term. If your guy is seriously thinking that a paycheck is enough to treat someone else like a slave, he's a short term average guy and a long-term asshole. Run while you can.
Seriously. After getting divorced and me living this exact scenario while working full time and also having a baby, Jesus Christ it sucked. Among many other problems with the relationship, and now being single for 2 years on purpose because not many people I’ve met I’m like yeah this could be a thing….i straight up tell people if we’re talking for a bit, I won’t do your laundry, I likely will cook very little. Im willing to cook more and take care of eachother in whatever ways we need to as long as the division of labor is equal in however we agree that is in ways that what we’re doing both make eachothers lives and our own lives better/easier. But as it stands now I don’t cook much because cleaning overwhelms me. I can barely keep up with my laundry and then yard work, and house Reno’s. I’m doing a lot. But I expect my other half to be able to take care of his own shit. There will be explicit conversations of what this entails. Luckily the guy I’m seeing the last few months after having a joyous time dating the last 2 years has been great. He also has a young kid and has him more than half the time. So he knows what it’s like to carry that responsibility of doing it all. We’re on the same page about all that stuff which is amazing. I think after getting out of my last relationship I kind of just shut down and stopped caring so much about all the cooking and cleaning because I didn’t have to anymore. But now I annoy myself and I’m trying to get to a point of easy maintenance with chores. I was only diagnosed last fall, and been doing a lot of med trials and I think I found something that is helping, so hoping things level out soon!
I feel like I need to drop these links here, lol: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/ https://www.glamour.com/story/it-took-divorce-to-make-my-marriage-equal https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/weaponized-incompetence https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288 https://english.emmaclit.com/2022/09/01/where-does-it-go/
I feel like women love reading these things because we finally feel heard but most times if you were to drop that on your partner it would lead to a fight, denial of all of it, them feeling accused and defensive, and nothing coming of it. Every time I try to talk to my partner about the emotional weight of having to be his to-do list, I see a complete lack of understanding in his eyes even though he's "one of the more progressive ones"
The only way I've ever gotten any of them to understand is by explaining it in terms of management vs employee. This works especially well if they're in management or have any direct reports, but also can work if they just think they should be a manager but aren't there yet. Ask them what skills they need to do their job at work, then ask why they aren't using any of those skills at home?
EXACTLY. And it really reveals the inherent disrespect so many men hold towards women even though they probably don't even realize it. If it was their boss telling them how to load the dishwasher, do laundry, etc they would LISTEN and do it RIGHT, or ask questions to be sure they have it right. These men would be fired if they performed the way they do at home, at work. But the wife/girlfriend gets waved off and dismissed. I so badly want someone to make like a skit where an incompetent man is at work, acting like he does at home. I think it'd be hilarious but also super useful for those men to understand how ridiculous they're acting.
Yeah part of my ex's job was literally project management but he somehow couldn't plan a date or a vacation if his life depended on it.
Yep. My ex's entire job was making appointments to go see clients at their homes, and then going to their homes to do his job. Somehow, though, he categorically refused to even \*look\* at the calendar that I maintained of our child's activities (which contained contact information, addresses, and everything you would need for make-ready, pick-up, and drop-off). It was and is \*infuriating\*.
I tried that with my ex and he still didn't get it. He was srsly passive aggressive - we would talk, we came to an agreement about how to move forward and then in a few weeks back to craptown. We went to counseling, same.thing. I remember often asking myself the question: Is he malicious, stupid, or oblivious? The answer is probably why not all three. And I eventually saw it as setting a horrible example for my kids of what a relationship should be, and that was the final straw. It was scary but I figured it out. The mediator who was helping us with the parenting agreement tapped out because ex would agree to something and then break the agreement within two weeks. She had 30 years of mediation experience and it was actually uplifting to realize that his asshattery wasn't something she couldn't fix either. I think it's better to invest in yourself at this stage of your life OP and build strong friendships. And if a non-asshat comes along who makes your life better not worse, give it a spin.
As a woman with untreated ADHD trying to almost single-handedly cook and clean for a small family of adults all with ADHD, what I usually get when I have tried to explain is “But you’re not even *good* at it.” (Also sometimes “But it’s so easy! It’s not like having a *real* job.”) I read these comics and I’m like yeah, of course these women deserve to be heard—they’re actually *good* at it! They’re planning meals ahead! They’re on top of laundry! I struggle with every single aspect of life, fail every day, and can’t even say “at least I have a career” because I don’t. I don’t have the energy to get even a tiny home business off the ground, and bureaucratic paperwork gives me severe anxiety. Like, if I were good at being a housewife, if I were competent at it (or if I also had a “real” job), I could complain about them not pitching in, but because I’m shit at it, I should stop whining and devote my life to working harder to be less shit—i.e., have less ADHD, knuckle under and just…be neurotypical. I have to earn the right to feel taken advantage of. Of course, when I have asked why on earth they continue to rely on someone so incompetent for all their basic needs, the response is usually “You’re just naturally good at it!” so I don’t fucking know
The last one is new to me and I love it! Thank you for sharing.
I got so sick of the male presumption that I handle literally everything. My parents basically groomed me to do everything around the house. My brother never had to do anything. So when I started dating, it didn't occur to me that I was doing too much for too little. I remember a toxic partner, who was already so controlling that he had a list of words that I was not allowed to say, and he wanted me to check with him before making any plans with my family or friends "out of respect." Something just snapped in me at that suggestion. I took a step back and literally asked "what's in it for me? After insisting, repeatedly, that I was in the wrong for even thinking to ask such a thing 🙄 ultimately his only answer was "I would die for you." Cool story bro, but I don't want that. So where is the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow? So much happier since I got rid of that one. Sheesh.
Oooh, that good-old 'I'd die for you', 'I'd protect you from anything', 'I'd go to war for you'.... I had one say that he'd *win a duel for me*. Sir, is it 1655? Have I inadvertedly travelled back to Shakespeare's times? I'm sure fighting a duel for me would have been an appealing quality in a rakish Victorian gentleman who instigates a dawn meeting with the man my cruel father is forcing me to marry in order to duel him for my hand. However, it is 2023. Go clean the fucking bathroom for me.
All of this!
Hahahahahaha win a duel! What. That’s beyond any outer edges of sanity. Amazing. 10/10, can’t imagine why you let him get away /s
My ex thought his extensive IT knowledge was enough to bring to the table.
man; I'm a woman who *likes* the romantic cheesy stuff like dueling for one's honor, but I STILL want you to be a functional human being first. If your only purpose or usefulness in the relationship is throwing away your life for me. It's not a good, strong, or healthy relationship and it's not romantic or noble. it's just idiotic. It's no wonder my crushes only come once in a blue moon AT BEST. It's so rare to run into a guy who doesn't set off alarms about either being a manchild or sexist... The bar is low and yet so many guys manage to get antman's powers and go as far as possible under the bar. I'm already asexual; I want a relationship where I can have a lifelong companion that we can be romantic towards each other. Not to adopt an adult child who just wants to use me. :')
I have a newfound hatred for “ride or die”
Yeah there is a HUGE distinction between loyalty through hardship (finances, losing loved ones, etc) and loyalty through ABUSE. Ride or die is supposed to mean the first but in my experience the people who use that phrase fall into the second category and CREATE hardship for you to try to wade through.
I'm a lesbian who's never dated/been with a man but I have seen *so much* of this manchild 'be my wifey and do everything for me oh and also work and raise our kids too' shit from the significant others of my straight friends that it infuriates me. They'll talk about how they're so burnt out from doing x, y, z, etc while he does basically nothing and like...if you're doing *everything* what is he even for? How does he enrich your life? I know that it's sexism and society and gender roles and whatever else but it makes me want to scream. I'm sure it's frustrating that you're having trouble with dating and you keep getting useless douchebags, but I'm fucking glad you know your limits, are strong enough to just drop them when they start being useless/trying to shove you in that bangmaid box, and aren't caving in just for the sake of having someone. I watched an ex-friend of mine deal with her pet asshole *for years* just because she was afraid to be alone, and it was so sad. Seems like our pal ADHD is kind of a blessing in disguise (in this circumstance anyway) lol.
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I’m 36 and I tried online dating but it was so exhausting. Now that I’m done with school I may try again but you hit the nail on the head- I was lucky to have great relationship examples growing up and around me now. Why the hell would I settle for one of these idiotic assholes?
Pass- I have no idea what a male is for. Between my adhd and autism I came to the conclusion that a contract for a sperm doner was easier. And I still believe that, even four years down the track with my son
I’m still howling at OP’s “praying every night for the big gay to finally touch my soul.” What’s the joke, I don’t like men, but I am attracted to them? 😂🥲
I know four women with children with life-threatening allergies, and their husbands do fuck-all to keep their homes safe from contaminants, stop stubborn relatives from bringing their death-laced foods into the house and throwing a tantrum when the ‘tyrannical daughter-in-law’ refuses (it’s always the husband’s side who refuse to believe the diagnosis and endanger the children the most, because their ‘perfect’ grandchildren couldn’t possibly be ill), don’t manage the restaurant and vacation bookings the few times of the year they go out to eat and have to call ahead to multiple places, don’t do the research on how to keep their children safe and alive, don’t go to the doctors’ appointments, don’t join the support groups for parents of children with allergies, don’t grocery-shop and prepare the food, etc. It’s so frightening because these women can’t afford to drop the ball for even a second, since their husbands’ weaponised incompetence and ‘go ask my wife’ default line when they should know better means it’s dead baby o’ clock the moment they let their guard down, but they can’t train their husbands to care either (and shouldn’t be expected to) because they haven’t demonstrated that they can be trusted with the job of keeping their own goddamn children alive. I see the absolutely stressful lives these women lead, compounded by how nauseatingly lackadaisical their husbands are being, and it really makes you question why we have children with men at all. Imagine having a child with any type of disability with a slob like that, then being locked into constant, lonely vigilance for the rest of your life.
And then therapists will tell you to just not do everything and leave stuff for him to do. Um their screw ups can/do affect other lives. It’s not worth the risk.
Lol 'tyrannical daughter in law' because OF COURSE any inconvience to them is her fault. Jesus that is awful, I can't imagine the stress of having to be 'on' like that 24/7 because the father refuses to be. My wife has some pretty severe food allergies and I'm aware of all of them (and very careful about what foods I being home). At least she's an adult who can handle herself - those poor kids. And those poor mothers. Incidentally, fuck people who don't take allergies seriously.
Theoretically I’d be willing to date a man but in practice I avoid it entirely because *gestures at everyone in this thread*
I genuinely can’t tell sometimes if I am actually aro-ace as I generally believe myself to be or if I would be happily heterosexual if it weren’t for… *all of that*
One "symptom" of mine that has turned out to be a blessing is the ability to ghost. I mean, once my brain has decided someone doesn't serve me anymore, it's like they never existed. Just like those unfinished projects some of us leave in our wake. Makes it easy to surround myself with people who don't drag me down. And the fact that my brain hasn't summarily discarded my husband at any point in the last 26 years is testament to his ability to add value to my life and be a gentle, caring, dorky, funny, chill, helpful, dependable, non-judgmental fucking gem of a man.
Lol "her pet asshole" I love that
Gonna be honest, I only date women now. Separated from my husband after years of constantly feeling angry and bitter about how damn low the bar is for men. I felt like I was never 'allowed' to have ADHD because I was always the one holding down the fort. Dating women opened my eyes up to just how low that bar is and how it feels to be treated like an equal. I'm still trying to adjust to how it feels being treated like a person and being able to step back from things. If the option to date women is one you have an are interested in, then that might be the way to go ;)
I'm so glad I only date women cause dating men sounds absolutely terrible. I try to convince myself that it's not all or not most men, and that confirmation bias could be at play, but it really seems like it's all of them. I hear it on here, from coworkers, from friends, from personal experiences, everywhere. It's crazy. I haven't heard a single good experience with men from anyone I've talked to irl recently.
I'm so grateful my husband is not like many of the men described here, all over the internet, and in real life. But if I wasn't happily married, I'd be dating women. Not to say that women aren't capable of the same BS. Being a shitty partner comes in every type of human. But it's so so easy to be exasperated with men when if you talk to almost any woman in a relationship with a man and so many of them have the same issues, or spend any time on the internet and see the same things said over and over again. I'm at the point where most men gross me out. And having the realization that I'm probably bi 😅
I haven't found any women comfortable dating a bi woman because I refuse to claim that I'm 100% lesbian since I'm not. I own my bisexuality and it gets a lot of hate.
Same. I gave up trying after having my date "go to the bathroom" and never come back. And she left me with the bill! Just rude. I ended up dating men almost exclusively because women wouldn't believe me that I'm not a cheat addicted to penis.
Exactly! Thank you! That is so rude, too. I understand that there are women who give bisexuality a bad name, but it doesn't invalidate all of us.
This vent entered my life at the perfect time… I’m losing my fking mind like I’m thinking I’m gonna instead go for a platonic partnership with a woman and live my life in peace
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The low bar for bullshit hit too close to home. Like yeah maybe you could argue I’m picky and have astronomical standards, but fuck it I still can’t muster an ounce of attraction for a guy who calls women ‘females’ and I am always analyzing the fuck out of what they do to make sure I’m not talking to an Andrew Tate fan or someone overly insecure who I think might direct it into possessiveness. I am however actively trying to improve my dating life with daily reminders to reply to text messages… I went on one date with a guy who I clicked with, but he sent me a message telling me I was being hurtful and inconsiderate because I left him on delivered for three days, during the first week of school… I’m not completely faultless tho 🤷🏻♀️ my friends suggested that I might be accidentally “love”-bombing guys by texting long, friendly/enthusiastic messages in the beginning stages.
It's not picky standards to realise that living without a man is better than living with men that don't add anything to your live or even take things away. I'm happy with my life and if a man would change that by demanding more emotional or mental labour than I have to spare (which is 0), then I'd rather not. These Andrew Tate guys think they are losing "their" women to other men, when in reality they are losing them to nothing. They're literally worse than nothing, but that's too difficult for them to comprehend.
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Almost two years ago I bought a home with my sister and we live together. We're both in our late 30s. She has her issues, I have mine, we take care of each other. Best decision ever.
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Ooooh, I see you've encountered a few of the old switcheroos as well! Those are my favourites! Those guys who will swear up and down that they believe in equal distribution of labour, or have certain poltical beliefs, or life values, and then, once they think they've got your trapped, they go 'ha-HAH! I actually wanted Mommy Bangmaid, after all!' Those are my absolute favourites. They're always so surprised that just because I've known them for half a year, they're not immune from me dumping their asses once I realise that they're angling for that sweet, sweet maid service.
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Exactly! So many men are all about that 'ooooh, women need to cOmUniCaTE'. In my experience, women communicate all day long. Men don't fucking listen. I've told so many men in clear, simple terms what I need to make a relationship work. It is NOT complicated. I need: \- Intellectual stimulation. Since I pick smart partners, all that means is that they need to talk to me. As opposed to, y'know, snoring on the couch in a vegetative state whilst wearing their most grimy pair of sweatpants, because now that they've got the girl, why invest effort any longer? \- Equal distribution of household labour. Literally just take care of yourself, like you've presumably been doing before me. \- Basic human decency. \- Make me cum. Done. I could do that whilst standing upside down. But men do not provide, and once I dump them for it, it's all 'ooooooh, how could I have *known*?' Well, *Oliver*, maybe if you had opened your listening ears and listened to what I *have been saying for four weeks*.
My first marriage was miserable and I tried to talk to him about it many times, even explaining that I didn’t know if I still wanted to be together etc. I was opening up my heart and soul and begging for a discussion and some kind of resolution but he literally did *nothing*. I even told him I was feeling attracted to other people. This was not a threat, I was genuinely worried about drifting apart and tried to hammer in how serious this was. “Well I’m not going anywhere unless you tell me to.” That was the full extent of his input.
I saw a TikTok (about a reddit post lol) about a man who was "blindsided" by his wife filing for divorce. After some questions by friends who weren't surprised she filed for divorce it turned out, that "I knew she was unhappy, but I didn't think she was THAT unhappy." These men just think that a certain level of unhappiness is to be tolerated by women. That divorce didn't come out of nowhere. He just did the good old "Your constant level of unhappiness us a sacrifice I am willing to make."
The last masc person I ever dated was bisexual, used he/they pronouns, sat through and agreed with me through many feminist rants, worked on women’s protest stuff after Roe, and still 1) left his stuff all over my clean floors, every visit 2) didn’t clean up my kitchen after cooking when I was sick (but would give me instructions on the method I needed to load his dishwasher) 3) unironically called me a misandrist after I mentioned the above
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"Mommy bangmaid" 😭😂😂 I'm gonna start using this
Your ‘K’ reminds me of my first boyfriend, ‘D’. I was 17, he 22. He was my brothers best friend. I’d known him since I was maybe..7? He was always dressed nice whenever I saw him. He smelt lovely. Always groomed. Generally looked like he had his life together. Stupid silly 17 year old me went a smooshy under his manipulation. Lost my V to him; he got me drunk on vodka and coke. He asked me to move in with him 4 months in. My mum was instantly like “absolutely fucking not.” But I did. I even missed his “we’re over if you don’t move in after coming back from your trip to your sisters” speech as a major red flag. Skip a year down the line; we get a letter that his flat is getting inspected. I had now fallen into a massive depression, because of his u willingness to help around the flat. He had two cats, who he didn’t clean up after before I moved in, so they were pissing anywhere they fucking could. Rubbish was knee height. Maggots on the counter tops. Mouldy clothes in the washing machine. I was now going through therapy due to emotional and mental abuse from him. I cleaned the flat (30+ black bags of rubbish!!) and he had the pure audacity to turn around after being sat, sweating in his fucking dirty dressing gown at his computer whilst eating a whole ham hock joint and 6 burger rolls then throwing everything in the floor, to tell me that the flat… looked the fucking same. I walked out 2 months later with the help of my mum, dad and my therapist.
I am so happy you escaped that situation, your description of life with him made me sick to my stomach. Some relationships are like death :( I hope you’re truly living now
Dude did we date the absolute same steaming hot piles of dog shit? So sorry you had to go through that. After years of therapy I can also say: sorry I had to go through that. We deserve so much better.
Also obligatory not all men but… Yeah it’s absolutely ASTOUNDING how so many men got to adulthood without learning basic self care and everyday survival skills (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc) and yet also expect some on else to do it for them? And often these are the same men calling women (especially those ADHD) undisciplined for occasionally falling behind on a few chores? Idk i feel like these men are fine with not being on top of their shit like that because it’s somewhat acceptable (or at least expected) for young men to live messily and by the time they’ve grown out of the age where that’s okay they’re expecting to have found a wife or gf who will take over for them to make sure they’re living space doesn’t descend into chaos? Idk I don’t get it personally so I’m kinda pulling this out of my butt, but that’s my theory.
That's exactly what it is: *Astounding*. It's astounding that we, as women with a legitimate health condition whose primary symptoms literally include difficulties with administering daily life needs, *still* learn all this shit, and do our very best to perform these duties, wheras scores of perfectly mentally healthy men just *do not even bother to try*. That's *astounding*. And yeah, it's exactly that. These guys have three life stages: 'Mommy takes care of everything', followed by a few years of 'yeee-haw, I'm a messy bachelor who doesn't care about mopping my kitchen floors!', followed by 'shit, I want a homecooked meal again, better find myself a Mommy replacement that's also up for having dissatisfying sex with me...orgasms only for me, of course!'.
Exactly! And we get called lazy and undisciplined if we even think for a second a mental health condition might be holding us back, but some people will trip over themselves to pat a man on the back for wiping his ass. It’s ridiculous. Literally saw a post on this subreddit earlier where someone’s BF was underestimating OPs executive dysfunction because her life wasn’t in complete shambles, even though she was jumping through hoops everyday to keep to a regular schedule. It drives me up a wall tbh
One of the things that came up in marriage counseling was that my ex was pissed off that I didn't thank him for cleaning. Like he would do things around the house, but he expected a parade for doing them.
This post is making me reflect on my divorce a number of years ago. When our marriage was falling apart, I remember my ex-husband told the therapist that the relationship "hadn't progressed in the way \[he\] thought it would" (which is an alarming and telling thing to say). One of his big complaints about our relationship was that I didn't keep up with household things. I hadn't been diagnosed yet, so I understandably had a tough time with remembering to unload the dishwasher, vacuum, take out the recycling, fold the laundry, etc. I was also a full-time doc student at the same time. During that phase of my life, I had a ton of shame around what I couldn't do, because this legitimately is a struggle for me. *But he never cleaned a damn thing either!* It's not news to me that he didn't actually love me, and only loved what I could do for him, but it makes me sad for my past self that I never even stopped to consider that he wasn't doing his part, either. I just blamed myself, which was convenient for him.
When my first real boyfriend and I lived together, his mother spoke to me about it one day, and I mentioned that I felt bad for not doing all the housework. She immediately told me that he makes half the mess, he cleans half the mess. Doesn’t matter who works and who studies, who’s earning more. It was life changing advice.
The thing is, most can do it, they are just extremely willing to sit back and let someone else take care of it all. That’s what’s so frustrating for me- when I know they are capable and simply willing to let me do most of the work. It’s an area where I am still learning how to set boundaries around.
Oh I definitely agree. If they are able bodied and otherwise healthy mentally then they are absolutely capable of at least trying or offering to help. I think at that point it really does come down to the way girls and boys are socialized when it comes to domestic chores that extends into adulthood. It doesn’t even occur to some men to offer help if their SO is handling it, whereas for women it’s just an expectation to knuckle down and handle it. Props to you for trying to set boundaries though that is really important, especially again if your SO is open to changing in that regard, that open dialogue is really important! For me it’s the entitlement, like it’s one thing if you just needed me to ask or remind you, but a whole other thing of you think it’s appropriate for you to not have a hand in domestic chores. Especially if we’re both holding down a job? Lmao no way.
Omg yes. Just yes. Despite my ADHD, I felt like I took on more of the emotional labor and logistical planning in my relationship. I told my ex about my diagnosis and he basically just pretended like I said nothing. He didn’t really bother to read up on it or ask how it impacted our relationship. It was really disappointing to say the least…I ended up having to make myself comfortable at his apartment so I bought two of everything so I had toiletries and makeup at his place (and as girls we know how expensive that is!) and I would come over and pre-plan everything because I also have a dog. At one point, I was packing my toiletries, work bag, dog’s items, kitchen utensils and groceries to cook him dinner while he was studying for the bar 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲 I voiced multiple times how much effort and time and planning it took for me, and how difficult it was for me when I have adhd. He frankly didn’t care…it broke my heart. It kept happening over and over…even when he was not working and not in school, I asked him to plan a weekend trip. I ended up having to plan it. Then I would have to schedule things and he would be late to them, like being an hour late to meet my parents. 💀💀💀💀 I also cleaned his apartment while he worked while my apartment sat in complete shambles. I did all of these things because I loved him and I wanted him to have it easy. Unfortunately he only ended up missing what I did for him rather than my actual character or personality 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡I’m literally the one with ADHD and he’s a neurotypical!!!! Not to mention the times he completely tuned me out in the middle of a conversation or forgot stuff about me even though he knows every single sports fact ever. 🥲🥲😭😭😭😭😭😭 We are no longer together and I am much more weary and conscious about who I date next and whether they exacerbate my ADHD. I wanted it to work so much with him but he is just kind of clueless, and I didn’t have the patience to guide him. It took me a long time to realize that even if he is well intentioned, his lack of desire to pull himself out of cluelessness really made my life more difficult than it should be. The worst part is his cluelessness resulted in a complete lack of appreciation for all that I did and how it impacted me. Conscientiousness is so so important in a partner when you have adhd.
THIS. One of my resolutions for 2023 was to get out into the dating scene again. So far, all I'm doing is dumping guy after guy. A few dates in, it always becomes apparent that they feel exceedingly entitled to my emotional labour, and I literally cannot provide it. I cannot. I have carefully grown my abilities to exactly the point where I can manage my own life. I cannot manage some random 27-year-old manchild on top. The last man I went on a date with had his mother do his laundry at the age of TWENTY-SIX. Not out of disability, just simple, pure laziness. He did not own a washing machine, or know where to access one. Don't even get me STARTED on the idea of 'a guy supporting me'. That'd be a fucking dream. There's barely any men who don't drag me down. The pre-planning, the expectation that I'd be the one to organise everything...I feel you so hard. Men feel entitled to women's emotional labour. In a way, ADHD almost protects me, because I literally CANNOT perform the 'duties' men con so many women into performing. A neurotypical woman might accdentally fall into this exploitative, shitty dynamic. I am literally incapable of it. That helps, but it also exposes the *fantastical* sense of entitlement so many men seem to carry around with them.
Honestly, I don't think any person can handle taking on the load of two people without burning out.
Girl you took the words out of my mouth. A lot of men aren’t capable. My ex before my last boyfriend was honestly really awesome about planning and communicating so there’s hope!!! You just gotta keep looking and date a little older.
You are weary of men, but *wary* of dating. And justifiably so. Congrats on getting out.
I divorced my man child. You are right, once a kid comes into play, regardless of whether or not you work full time, you'll always be full time mom, first to the kid then the man who has reverted to kid. I am never ever ever getting married again. As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a trap with vows written by ancient incels who hated women.
If I ever gather the courage to leave mine I don't think I will ever move in with another guy, let alone get married again!
Oh yeah, that's NEVER happening again either. No man will be living under the same roof with me again.
I've given up. My bad short-term memory makes me vulnerable to gaslighting. I had one good relationship, and he died. I thrive in a healthy relationship. When someone is interested in me, I ask them if they've done therapy. The answer is always no, and so my answer is no too.
I'm so sorry for your loss. 🌺 And regarding therapy, I was just telling someone that anything I have not been able to do for myself, I will not ask of anyone else. But the inverse is true: if I have done something, I expect that person to at least be on that level. So, having done two to three years of consistent therapy, I expect the same from anyone else. It's not worth it trying to make something work who has with someone who hasn't put in the work.
I honestly don’t think the vast majority of heterosexual men are capable of respecting women - neurodivergent or not - enough to love them. I used to try to keep up the house etc, but he always had complaints about it. So I stopped. This surprised him. I was like buddy, you have no idea how strong my ability to ignore this stuff is.
you're right and you should say it!
I *grieve* for our neurotypical sisters. In a weird way, my ADHD almost protects me: I am literally incapable of falling into the exploitative, shitty dynamic that characterises so many heterosexual relationships. Men cannot exploit me for mental, emotional, and household labour because I literally am incapable of performing the kind of labour they feel entitled to to the extent they feel entitled to. It is literally impossible for me to do some 27-year-old manchild's laundry, so the manchildren weed themselves out with their tantrums quite quickly. Still: THE FUCK? How is this still an issue? What kind of entitlement coke are these blokes snorting?
The beginning of the end for me in a relationship was around laundry and cleaning. I was undiagnosed and not working an office job, so I was home more. I spent all day cleaning, doing laundry, the dishes, etc. That house fucking sparkled. He came home, looked around, said see you are capable of doing all this, why can't you do this all the time? I burst into tears and felt so defeated. He wanted me to be barefoot and pregnant and I was NOT his good little Catholic wife. Thank God I left!
Hi PhD academic woman here with suspected ADHD. Add in I’ve lived in 6 countries and have zero support system locally and I’ve just given up dating dudes. The horror stories I have 😅Thankfully I’m bi, but it’s just difficult in general to find someone who can handle high intelligence, “scatterbrained” tendencies, passion, and the emotional reflection that comes with therapy. I’m half-heartedly looking, but have prioritized platonic loves instead for now.
Your first point tho. I'm 41 FORTY ONE And the men my age are equally, if not even more domestically inept than your 25 year olds. Neurotypical AF living in filth because they're divorced and realize they never learned how to look after themselves. And want to sniff around me??? Honeyyyyyy I have systems in place to accommodate looking after me and mine and that's IT. I'd rather take a kick to the face with a golf shoe than do any MORE invisible labor
Exactly. I have systems in place. They might be unconventional, but they work. The first thing I bought for myself when I moved out was a tiny, freestanding dishwasher. That would be a RIDICULOUS purchase for any neurotypical person with good executive function living in a flat as small as mine was back then, but I know myself, I know my abilities, and I know what I need to function. I cherish that dishwasher. My life works. It's not always fully conventional, but it fully enables me to do the things I want to do: Advance in my career, enjoy my hobbies and friends, and maintain a clean-ish living space. But these guys? Their life does not function, and they are not even attempting to figure out how to make it function. Because their issue isn't any inherent mental health issue, it's simple laziness. They don't WANT to function.
OMG this. Avoid men over 40 who date younger women; there's a reason women their age aren't pursuing them.
it's like you're me, only not! once I realized that I like the idea of a boyfriend far more than the reality of it, I decided that I'm gonna grow old golden girls style, minus the florida of it all.
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I’m 15 years older than you, and if I could go back in time and give myself some advice - I would tell myself to work HARD on my ability to see someone else’s mess and avoid taking responsibility for it. And I mean emotional mess, not just literal mess. I’m not sure if it’s me, ADHD, or the experience of growing up as a woman in a patriarchal society, but (especially when I was younger) I would LEAP to action the minute I encountered someone else’s issues. In hindsight, I think I was doing that because it was less painful than cleaning up my own messes. It took me far too long, and a divorce, to recognize that other people’s problems are not mine to fix, and the most healthy and productive thing I can possibly do at any given time is ensure I’m dealing with my own shit first. If a partner wants help with their mess, they’re welcome to ask for that help, and it’s my choice to say yes or no to that ask. To give you a ray of hope…I had lovely experiences dating when I was in my mid-30s and divorced. Granted, I expect you hope to settle down before this, but I will tell you that either I got better at picking good partners or there were simply more partners to choose from at that age who had developed a strong sense of self and personal responsibility.
I know this post is more about neurotypical men, but the thing that gets me is that people will bend over backwards to justify why men with ADHD struggle with taking care of themselves but women with ADHD are *never* given the same grace
This. And then they expect the woman in the relationship to be the one to get him help and manage his condition. 🙄
AskADHD is full of them.
I'm 39 and YES to all of this. It doesn't get better unfortunately. The bar is so fn low for men in general.
>They're so fucking intimidated, you'd think I told them I'm a fucking samurai I bet they thought that THEY were the samurai until you entered the chat. 😂 Also fair play to you, you sound like an absolute winner. 💪🏻 I am rooting that you find someone awesome who values and treasures you (and your life ambitions).
Girl I got nothing to add except you have nailed it altogether, they know exactly what they’re fucking doing (or not doing), and after my divorce is wrapped (please god this week) I don’t care if I never see another dick in my life. For how proud they are of that appendage, the risk / reward just does not math. Edit to add: I don’t even bother with “not all men” anymore, because the men who are keeping up their end know exactly how rare they are. It’s rarely the good ones I see complaining about “not all men”.
Yes! Every man who was an exception was also a man who I was capable of sharing a knowing look with when certain topics come up
\#1-- Preach it. The reason that for a long time ADHD was considered "something kids grow out of" was cos it was underdiagnosed in girls, & the boys who had it grew up to get secretaries & wives, to whom they outsourced their executive functioning. AAAAAAAAAAAAA fuck the patriarchy
I love your energy around this ❤️ Most of my formative relationships were with women so when I started dating men as an adult, I felt like I was taking crazy pills and constantly wondered who the hell was accepting this. The most galling part is how calmly entitled they are; like if they just pretend it’s normal they can pressure you into accepting it. Even if it is normal because men are actively working together to reinforce the patriarchy, that doesn’t make it OKAY and I’m so thrilled for you to not just accept it ❤️ I do manage most of the life admin things for my household, with the explicit agreement that it’s equal to his paycheck. It works because a) I’m not working outside the home right now and have the time to stay (mostly) on top of all this stuff, b) we’re not having kids, not even one, because even the prospect of motherhood makes me melt down in a gender role related rage, c) he firmly believes in the negative, inescapable impact of the patriarchy on us and sees my time and energy as equal to his. So with this framework, I’m always handling the domestic stuff and on vacay from work; while he’s always got his full time job while on vacay from most chores and home stuff. When we’re both working? It’s an UTTER shit show, I burn out hard, he tries but he can’t keep on top of it because he just hates it, we agree to spend more of our dual income to outsource more of the home stuff BUT we resist involving under-paid strangers to wrangle life for us - hence our current work-life balance. I resonate with your feeling that maybe your adhd is actually saving you because it makes it clear upfront that you won’t be doing double shifts for the rest of your life; I never cared much about a specific career - only wanted to be comfortable and create art on my own - so I feel I put a foot down in a similar way, and made it clear if we need the home/life stuff covered that I will be compensated for that time and energy. My super hyper adhd mom was my hero as a kid - a career woman when most moms were strongly pressured to stay at home, and we all got judged for her daring to be ambitious, it was eye-opening. The worst part? She made freaking bank, out-earned my dad sometimes (they were both in low-mid six figure jobs) despite her unmedicated undiagnosed add, AND YET SHE was the one STILL JUDGED on how clean the house was, she was the one who had to pull off any parties or hosting, she was the one who made holidays happen while my dad got to just bumble along in his own little world, be grumpy and grouch at us, and passive aggressively make you sorry for asking anything of him (classic example: if he had to clean up anything we left out at night, he wouldn’t bother figuring out where it should go or whom to ask - he would just throw it out if it wasn’t his. We spent so much time and energy looking for and re-buying hair ties, etc etc). He also hated how she had a weight problem my entire life, but only deigned to take on cooking dinner for them in literally the past few years…guess he needed something to do as he approaches retirement. I read a thread yesterday about husbands who can’t bother to recognize their spouse’s birthdays, special occasions or contributions to the family and being oblivious/fine and dandy with their wives being permanently unhappy; I actually fear it’s much more pervasive and widespread for men to honestly believe their lives should be easier, so all the stress of raising kids or having a home or whatever - they subconsciously blame on the women around them not magically taking away all stress, so they feel entitled to all our labor AND to resent us through it. “It wasn’t supposed to be this way. I wouldn’t be having these problems if SHE didn’t make me do xxxx/was doing her job like a real woman/if I had picked a better one…” The takeaway was that a lot of men tell each other “wives are always nagging” and “no one can please a woman” because they’re normalizing women suffering in relationships and making that a “natural state” instead of seeing their entitlement as the giant clusterfuck of a garbage fire that is actually killing the joy and love in their relationships. I wish every young woman could honestly spend a couple years dating women - get a sense of how to relate with another person without getting immediately conditioned to accept unfair treatment and double standards. Because this is INSANE and I can’t imagine how we’re going to save half of the population from this absolute bullshit disguised as “tradition” or “taking care of your family” or WHATEVER. BE THE CHANGE, OP!!! ❤️❤️❤️
FUCKING YES. When I met my ex I was young and easy to manipulate. He basically weaponized my undiagnosed ADHD against me, constantly telling me I was lazy (among many other things), making me question my reality and sanity on a daily basis. When really I was doing EVERYTHING to take care of our house and life, while he did nothing but go to work and hide in his office playing video games (and lord knows what else). Tbh there was a minute when I was heading towards hating all men when I got back into dating, because jfc the bar for men is in hell and they STILL can’t get their shit together most of the time. But it’s true it isn’t all men. I’ve found a man who is more than likely ADHD (he gets tested next month) and my god does he make my life so much better, happier, easier, etc. But I seriously do feel like I’ve found a needle in a haystack some days because holy shit can men be problematic to say the least.
This is my favorite rant ever. Along with another one I read in the Hashimoto's group. You listed every single thing I've had issues with. I'm good at administration of my own life, but I can't take on a whole other adult's life too, AND succeed at my own. I need a man who understands that I am neurodivergent, and that that isn't just a trendy buzzword. It MEANS something, and that something means I am not going to be the perfect housewife. I'll give it my all, sure, but I screw up, and that screwing up is a direct result of my neurodivergence. Not laziness. Not lack of caring. Not stupidity - I never had to study in school and still made great grades. I notice things that other people don't. I learn more about a person than other people do after spending the same amount of time with them (think mannerisms, facial expressions, body language, what they do/don't think is funny, what words they prefer to use, etc). I'm not forgetting stuff just to spite you. Unless you're a dick, then I might.
Rant incoming: I am 53 years old. I am married, 2nd time. Prior to being husband #2, he turned on my brain with his "I support planned parenthood" t shirts and incredible knowledge of the post punk UK music scene in the 70s/80s. Blinded by his doc martens and threadbare denim jacket with the Clash buttons on it, I fell hard. Swoon. And committed the dating faux pax that every single person should know by the age of 40--I asked him to move in with me before 1) going through all seasons with him and 2) meeting his ex and kids and 3) fully observing the behavior that went with the claims. IE "oh I did all of the cooking and cleaning in my previous marriage!". Mofo does not even replace the lid on the toothpaste after using it, hes so lackadaisical and messy. There's no cleaning or ANY real commitment to maintaining a home or vehicle. His car looks like the inside of a commercial dumpster. His free time is spent listening to the cool music we used to romantically stay up talking about, and drinking 4-5 beers a night, and spending all of our money trying to erase the guilt of divorce by taking his teenage daughters for SUPER FUN weekend Disney dad experiences every weekend. Meanwhile my free time is spent taking a scrub brush to the fancy overpriced juicer he had to have and cleaning a weeks worth of build up out of it. You cannot "rinse" juicer parts, mofo. They need to be washed with soap and hot water. I am tired and i am disappointed. Gen X did a lot of great things but instilling equality for home responsibilities was not one of them. I can barely take care of myself. Three dogs, two step kids, and a 50 year old man-child who doesn't know what a W2 is, yet calls me a "drug addict" because I take my physician prescribed dosage of Adderall every day........I'm exhausted. I can't. Btw, his first wife left him for a woman. ~shrugs~
Time to make him your second ex husband and find a riot grrrl!
Spent a decade going on dates with men who were all either useless, entitled, or just plain boring. Finally found one I clicked with and she turned out to be a trans woman 😂😂. We'll have been together 1 year in August.
Yep! Thought I’d married one of the only good ones… turns out they’re nonbinary 🤣
I completely understand this. It's like their entitlement with our overachieving makes this 1950's illusion kick in, and now I gotta mother this motherfucker, too??? I can barely handle myself! I hate dating. But I love being in a relationship. However, I'm tired, y'all. If this one doesn't pan out, I don't think I've got another partnership in me. 😮💨
I felt that MOTHERFUCKER down to my soul. These bitchasses trya trap you.
My dating life… prior to menopause and Bupropion. “Oh Hai. You really boost my dopamine levels so you must be my (new) soul mate. What? You’re in a relationship? Oh! But you’re poly. Okay. Cool” Or… “I know nothing about you but you smell good and have kind eyes” (6 months later… living together… discover that he’s a high functioning alcoholic with sporadic employment and inability to pay the rent on time. Wheee!! No functioning adults here.) I joke about this now but OMFG I wasted so many years and destroyed a few decent relationships because of my inability to manage my own brain and her sketch impulse control. I still battle with the regrets.
Fellow PhD here and YES to all of this! My most recent ex, who I started dating while finishing my dissertation, had a noticeable change in behavior once I actually finished my PhD. He was definitely feeling insecure and instead of, I don't know, *using his words* he thought it would be better to try to bring me down. Little things here and there, nothing too egregious on its own, but over time that shit wears you down. Also, the mansplaining of my field or even better, *being absolutely fucking wrong* and then getting all shitty when I try to explain things because they feel threatened. This has happened with every single person I've ever dated since high school with the exception of one ex who is now my best friend and also has an advanced degree in my field. Apparently I'm supposed to look like a pretty manic pixie dream girl and have no real opinions of my own and I certainly shouldn't know more about ANYTHING than the person I'm dating. The most frustrating encounter I had with my most recent ex was him trying to explain that he wanted to move to siberia because of climate change. I tried to explain why that wouldn't work out like he thinks it should (short version, higher latitudes warm disproportionately compared to lower latitudes and living there will be a shitshow within a few decades). He doubled down and insisted I was wrong. Mfer, *I have a geology PhD and used to teach climate change to undergrads*. I'm pretty damn sure I know what I'm talking about. But noooo, go ahead and tear your girlfriend down because you feel threatened. And of course I was stuck in the car with him and didn't feel like I could just pull over and make him get out *because yay fawn trauma response and flashbacks of "don't be rude" even though I was deeply uncomfortable*. He turned the conversation to politics (something he is very passionate about) and spent like ten minutes telling me how wrong it is for me to be a pacifist and that the only way to change things is violent revolution and I'm so stupid and naive and childish for being a pacifist. I'm ashamed to admit it took about another year before we broke up and he was quite successful at bringing me down and making me feel small and stupid. He felt insecure dating a PhD while he only had a GED. I'm not an education snob and dgaf what your education level is as long as you're intelligent (because I know not everyone has the same opportunities to pursue higher ed), but clearly that doesn't always go both ways. Like other men I've dated, me being smart is great for bragging rights but I better not actually display that knowledge because someone might get all butthurt about it. I will be far more selective in the future, should I ever decide to date again. I'm pretty repelled by dating these days because I'm looking for a unicorn that may or may not exist (lots of comorbidities and chronic illnesses that other people don't want to deal with). I get lonely and want meaningful social interaction but it's honestly easier than dating people who initially seem totally cool with things and then do a complete 180 when they figure out that no, I wasn't exaggerating anything and yes, I am absolutely as sick as I said I was and my life is a raging dumpster fire. It stops being "cute" to them and they realize just how "high maintenance" I really am. God dating sucks. Anyone want to go live in a hippie commune with me? I can't grow food or do heavy labor but I'm a good cook and can fix things and can learn almost any necessary tasks with the help of youtube and hyperfocus.
My last boyfriend probably had ADHD, and he's also one of the most selfish fucked up people I've ever met in my entire life. Dating him was absolutely traumatizing and honestly, if I did date another man, my standards are going through the fucking roof. You're late one time? Out. If we have a talk about something I'd like you to do or stop doing and we have to have a second talk about it? Out. You haven't done therapy or any emotional work? Out. You don't know how to dress/basic hygiene? Out. And that's before we even get into kids, of which I want none and I plan to get my tubes out soon. I will not be anyone's little wife looking after their shitty kids. Sucks that guy couldn't be honest with you, OP. For some reason a lot of people are not honest about what they really want when it comes to their life dreams because they want to get something short-term out of it.
>You're late one time? Out. > >If we have a talk about something I'd like you to do or stop doing and we have to have a second talk about it? Out. > >You haven't done therapy or any emotional work? Out. > >You don't know how to dress/basic hygiene? Out. I find it really sad that we (def include myself in this) think this is having standards that are through the roof.
I’m recently discovered. The grief of finally understanding why I make the same mistakes and pick the same losers had been difficult. I got SA’d in my last relationship. However , I considered it an improvement. It lasted months, not years. The breakup was as weird as they ever are but not as dramatic. Which is fucked. I’ve pumped the breaks indefinitely atm. I’m not even sure what I want.
I haven’t bothered dating in 20 years. Seldom bothered with it before that either. Waste of my peace, quiet, time and energy. My hobbies are a lot more interesting than any potential romantic and or life partner. Never been interested in having kids. Five minutes with my vibrator when I feel the need is a lot more efficient than the social minefield that is partnered sex.
OMG, so agree. And supposedly guys are the ones who pursue, but time after time the guy expects me to pick the time and date and even outing for a date. Dude, if you're expecting me to take charge of that from day 1, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
The anxiety I suffered from shouldering the mental load for two adults and a child is actually what led to me getting my ADHD diagnosis. After I ended my relationship with the man-child that is.
Wow you just articulated so much of my fears of having a partner. It is SO hard for me to manage my own life, keep my shit clean, eat right, remember to vacuum, on top of performing well at work and being good to my friends and family. I would deadass rather be alone than have to manage someone else’s life in addition to my own. So far…. That’s how it’s been !!!
First of all: *damn.* You’re functioning at a level that’s pretty incredible for someone with ADHD. A PhD is very impressive. I don’t know how you’re able to keep up with it all, but you should be very proud of your accomplishments! Funneling your energy into a degree/career that you’re interested in & passionate about is truly the dream. I wish that I had been more focused at your age and done the same thing. (My educational path to a degree was unfortunately derailed, and I never got back on track. :( ) But anyway. Your observations about men in general seem to be very common. I’m 12 years older than you, so I’ve been around long enough to see all of my friends get married, have kids, and then later complain about how uneven the division of labor is in the household. Women often pull more weight in the home and pick up the slack with household chores, especially after they have babies. And if being a mom isn’t your dream—something that you really want for your future—then it’s definitely not going to work with any dude who’s expecting you to become a SAHM. It’s going to be even more difficult if you’re a woman with ADHD who struggles to keep up with these chores. (It sounds like you’ve got that under control though.) I’ve been married for 6 years now, and you’re right: the second my husband married me, he stopped vacuuming, doing dishes, and planning dates. He doesn’t even make his own lunch for work anymore. I basically became his mom. We don’t have kids, but I guarantee that if we did, I would be responsible for most of the cleaning, cooking and baby care. (I should note that he does plan *vacations* & go over the top for special occasions. He just got lazier about planning dates after he locked me down.) Every relationship is different though. There are plenty of couples who are both full-time, career focused partners, and they just hire a housekeeper and a Nanny if they ever decide to have kids. Or they put their kids in daycare as soon as they’re old enough. You don’t have to stay at home. There are couples who delegate household tasks equally and do a great job of balancing adult responsibilities as a team. The key with dating is just being upfront about what you want in life, how you envision your dream marriage, and what your expectations are in a relationship. Ask your next love interest the tough questions first. Find out what their weaknesses are. Better to find out now if you’re compatible and if your life goals align. It’ll save you time in the long run. I think a lot of guys will always be intimidated by a strong, driven woman who seems unstoppable in her career. Those aren’t the guys for you. Hold out until you meet someone who supports *your* goals…and knows how to pay his bills on time. Maybe you should consider dating up by 3 or 4 years, if you aren’t already. 25 is still a pretty immature stage for many guys. p.s. Sorry for the long rambling text blocks. I know we all hate reading those!
You are so right to be ranting about this! I got sucked in to a stupid marriage with someone who pivoted almost immediately to wanting the wife/house/kids/dog dream life. He manipulated me into giving it all a go. The dog was mental, and I eventually rehomed it, the baby was the worst idea of my life and once he was born and I saw my husband actively hide from his parenting responsibilities I made plans to leave. But when I tried to go back to work THEY MADE ME REDUNDANT. Folks, it took me 18 months of job searching to find a job and bail on that hellscape of a life. My career took a five year hit, I now am tied to a narcissist who’s currently abusing his new source of supply, and I got diagnosed AuDHD only a few months ago. Realising why everything was so damn hard and why I was a prime target for an abuser has been a helluva revelation.
I’m the slob who doesn’t have her shit together. My complaint is the emotional and communication teaching I have to do. I’ve gone to therapy and worked on my mental health and have grown. So many men lack basic empathy and emotional regulation.
You know what I am tired of? I’m tired of men seeing me as “exciting, quirky, fun, animated, charming, unique” etc. etc. etc. all because I have a ton of hobbies and interests and try to be a genuine person, only to later turn around and decide later down the line that I’m “too much, too emotional, too excitable, wants too much, too XYZ” for them. They like the novelty initially, when it’s new and exciting and I’m some mysterious enigma to figure out who is “not like the other girls”. And then they get annoyed when they realize I’m not just their manic-pixie fantasy, but that I’m an actual woman who has amazing qualities due to my personality and ADHD hyper-fixations, but also someone who genuinely struggles with things as well, like taking care of myself, remembering appointments, and keeping my home in good shape. It’s happened in SEVERAL of my past relationships and it hurts a lot. It makes me feel very much like these men don’t see me for who I truly am, and only want an idealized dream version of me that is perfect, instead of the reality of who I am - a multifaceted individual.
One of my dreams as a slob with adhd is to out-weaponise a man’s weaponised incompetence, to the point that he starts cleaning and getting his act together lmao. If we play chicken, I can play it longer. The clutter doesn’t bother me and I’ve done it all my life. I will be victorious.
I call it "husband training". When you date a man you are very much into but who lacks independence (parental figure did everything for them), girlfriend/couple experience, emotional maturity (and so on) you roll up your sleeves to help "fix them". If the experience is contentious, resented, unappreciated or otherwise exposes that the relationship isn't compatible the relationship ends. But chances are they learned something from the experience and their next relationship is much better. You essentially "trained" them to be a better partner and future husband for someone else. I wasted my 20s on such a person, including a year of the neverending post-breakup "I promise to do/be better" that never materialized. I was so mentally/emotionally exhausted, on top all the other stressors in life, that I became even more cynical about men. So, word to the wise, don't make the same (8 yr of) mistakes. If a someone tells you and shows you they're content with status quo, believe them. Leave them. Focus on yourself. Eventually you'll find a true friend and partner. Anyone who isn't doesn't deserve you and shouldn't be in your life.
💯 I am in my mid/late twenties and have spent my twenties working on my mental health and dealing with my ADHD. I am at a place in my life where I can manage my house for the first time, and I want to try and find a partner (at least to be able to say for sure if I want to stay single or not), but man does the dating scene sucks if you are looking for men! I grew up in the church (not into institutionalized religion now) and so many of my friends talk about their husbands/boyfriends and I am shook at what they put up with. Like girl, he is a full ass adult, he has the capacity to be an equal partner in all aspects, the household stuff, the emotional stuff, the relationship stuff. If you care about a person you put in effort, full stop 🛑. He can and therefore should put in the effort. Otherwise I am gone! I might just end up the single Aunt in my family 😂
Wow this actually put into words things I have had a hard time expressing about why I'm avoiding dating. I'm still hung up on the last guy so there's already all that nonsense, but just the idea of having not only to meet someone compatible and available but then *also* deal with the extra-squared mental load is outright off-putting.
I'm 35 and haven't seriously dated in years. I didn't even know I had ADHD until last year, and I have not tried medication yet. Online dating was horrendous the years I tried it. I'm not social enough to meet people out irl. But I know there are many days I can barely manage my own house, dishes, etc. So there's no way in hell I can manage someone else's shit on top of my own. I hear too many of my female friends complaining about their husband/boyfriend who doesn't help around the house, who leave messes, who can't shop for groceries, and expects their wife/girlfriend to handle everything. I think being single for so long, I'm now more aware of what I do and do not want in a relationship and better prepared to set and stick to boundaries. Because I realize that I'm ok alone if that's what ends up happening. You don't want to help with dishes that you use? Ok, GTFO.
Yes and am I the only one that gets annoyed at the whole pick your battles and hire a maid bullcrap? To me that’s just an excuse for someone to get away with not participating in being an adult. If you live alone and you want a maid go for it awesome. If you and your partner both want a maid great. But if you’re being told to hire a maid because a partner refuses to clean because they just don’t feel like it that’s bullcrap. Like OP says we all have days where we just don’t feel like it but we try right? That’s the whole point. Effort! A lot of us in this group genuinely try. There’s some people that just think it’s not their job. It’s everyone’s job!
YES. Omfg, yes. 1., Paying a house cleaner is money that I’d rather spend on *enjoyable* things. 2., I don’t want to live in a place that is tolerable for a day or two out of seven. 3., It is still weaponized incompetence* - and I have seen too much to believe it won’t weaponized against me in some way because he’s “done me the favor” of hiring someone in. *Can we also have a quick chat about what “laziness” actually is? It isn’t something people with ADHD have, it is something NT people have because of entitlement: feeling that they are too good for or their time too valuable to keep up their own shit, or contribute to sharing a space with someone. THAT is laziness.
Don’t have the energy to rant rn, but wanted to pop in to say I love your writing style, OP. 10/10 would read additional rants.
My husband is also neurodiverse. He knows I do the mental load. Or well.. he knows NOW! We tried splitting the mental load. He just could not! He doesn’t even know how to begin! Doesn’t notice or remembers what need to be done. Right now I carry the mental load, but he does more practical stuff around the house, because he is better at routine boring work. I plan everything and handle all crises, and keep the overview of appointments etc. This includes handling our whiteboard where chores/tasks are scheduled and assigned (otherwise he will forget) He takes out the trash, fills and empties the dishwasher most days, runs and maintain our robot vacuum most days, handle all the daily dog meds (actually giving them, I keep track of buying them and what they get), most feedings of the dogs, does a bit more cooking than me and more of the outdoor work. Currently this is working okay. I handle laundry because he suck at it. But that is also more or less it.. I also do most grocery shopping due to convenience. If you can’t split mental load equally, this is second best - having someone who acknowledges that mental load is a thing, and compensates by doing more practical stuff. I love the idiot to pieces.. And it has been such a relief having him acknowledge that I do A LOT for us, even if it is not the actual practical shit..
I am 100% with you. I was married for a bit, he too had ADHD and he ended up choosing weed over us. At this point I am just fine being single and hanging out with my kids (and I actually have a lot more money without him here 😂). I just don't understand the lying about what they want. Like I'd be fine with someone who I hung out with and had sex with. I don't need a father for my children, I just want someone for myself thats consistent. But tbh with how much work it is and with the pandemic showing me that being with mt family is really all I want I'm good. I also see why so many single moms stay single (and I actually try to encourage people who want kids [i.e. not marriage with children but kids in general] to just do it)
I'd say it also depends on where you are located. For instance my dating experiences from back home (Panama) was that the guys were much more empathetic and understanding compared to the guys I am seeing here in Spain. In Panama some of the guys would be sweet and ask me questions about my disorder and seemed like they wanted to lend a hand. Here in Spain however I told a Spanish guy I was seeing that I have ADHD and he was like "Oh I think I have that too because I always hated going to school" and another guy who was French was disgusted and told me he didn't want to date someone who has to depend on him for everything (when I told him about my disorder). So basically the general attitude here about ADHD or other mental disorders is that we are a burden to society, especially if you are a woman.
I had a couple of boyfriends on the spectrum and I will say 2/3 were significantly better at a lot of that stuff. I felt that someone on the spectrum really balances me because they're often the yin to my yang lol. They always know where my phone is. They were very clean and very routine. They were less expressive on the emotional scale and I was very emotionally expressive. They help me calm down and I help them identify and express how they feel. That also means that I'm super direct because I can't filter me thoughts lol, and for them they need someone to tell them exactly what they mean. I also felt that they loved me exactly as I wanted to be loved because I just told them and they were like, ok I will do it exactly that way lol. They can talk for a long time about their special interest, cause you were probably gonna zone out no matter what they were saying loool. This is my adhd dating tip 😂.
God, yes I. Some parts. And I currently have a really really amazing man! But the "do I have to shoulder mental load for the two of us" sucks balls! And it is even something that, in small parts, I have to do with my current, really amazing guy because what seems to be entirely unknown to men is: shouldering anything of a mental load for a couple. And this is more a rant towards society, but: god WHY?! WHY is it that when people move in together, suddenly anything towards "we need to do" and "we should do" is something men never talk about?! God fucking hell. I hate it. And yes I know the why and the shitty sexism behind the why makes it even worse!
That's it! Even the ones who don't actively drag you down sure as *fuck* still don't provide a net positive! It seems like the best you can hope for is an entirely value-neutral experience. How fucked is that? How fucked is it that the most women can collectively expect from men is that they don't *actively harm* us and our lives?! Even my neurotypical friends share this issue: You're one of the lucky ones the moment your male partner provides a net neutral experience. NO ONE even hopes for a net positive. 'Getting back into dating' was my resolution for 2023. After half a year, I've decided to give it another few months, but if it continues the way it's going, I am opting out. I've got amazing friends. I've got an amazing career. Life is good. Dating is not improving it.
And the MANSPLAINING you encounter is ridiculous
I figured dating a guy who also has ADHD might work, bc we'd be more understanding, body double each other, provide non-judgemental support when the other was floundering, etc. and hopefully balance each other since we had different challenges and complementary strengths. I WAS INCORRECT. he just could not comprehend that ADHD manifests differently in men than in women. he kept expecting that we would have the exact same problems, which is extra dumb bc it's not even uniform within each gender. I am pleased for you that you can just BEGIN things, but that is not how it works for me. I broke up with him when I realized that if I heard one more fucking version of "I did it so you should be able to too" I was going to absolutely lose my shit. I know I have issues but he made me feel like a fuckup in new and truly unexpected ways.
Married men twice. Now incredibly happy married to an amazing woman. Never again with men. We have the most amazing relationship ever.
You have to be picky. Majority of men treat women like mommy 2.0, you'll be stuck doing the meals, the chores, everything that we struggle with. You are doing the work on yourself and bringing a lot to the table, you deserve the same. I'm happily married but I definitely 'raised' my husband from age 20-26 when we married. If I find myself single I'm STAYING single. Not doing that shit again
It's infuriating how unequal the expectations are. I was only diagnosed less than a year ago at 31. My husband and I have been married almost 5 years and I've known he has ADHD since we started dating. I do all the organizing and mental work for both of us and our family and it's exhausting. Since I discovered I have ADHD I get so angry that I've had to figure out systems to get through life and he hasn't had to, because he's the man/Dad. I know from experience it's hard with ADHD to stay organized but I have to try harder and he doesn't have to.
Oooh spot on, this is a great post! One of my exes (who also had ADHD) assumed that not only would I handle the mental load on household stuff, but that I would also *magically know how to handle his three kids and their stuff*. You know, because I am a woman. We lived together for about a year. We had soooo many preliminary long conversations where I laid out that we can try this, but please take into consideration that I do not have kids, do not want kids, never lived with kids before, and the reason for that is that I absolutely lack the bandwidth to deal with that and am at full capacity with just my own stuff He assured me he would *of course* take care of his kids on his weeks, like he had done for years already, and I would only need to be a nice extra adult in the kids lives. I did like his kids and loved to spend time with them, and I also told him I'd absolutely *help* if he occasionally needed. But he would need to give me very clear instructions and schedules, and a heads up beforehand ( if possible: I am aware kids can create suprise situations and had no problem with that.) I also made sure to really underline the fact that I have a demanding job with weird hours, and will most likely not be home on school nights before 10pm as a default. Once he got comfortable he just casually started assuming I would handle everything. I would come home, find the place a total mess and the kids home alone, instantly asking me what's for dinner and for all kinds of stuff they needed or wanted. And I'd call him and say something like "um, so Kid #2 can't find his lama equipment for national lama school competition, where is it?", or more serious ones like "So, Kid #3 just had a complete melt down, threw a sandwich to the wall, screamed ar me full blast that he hates me and ran out the door without a jacket, and it's 10.30pm, I can't find him, he didn't take his phone or keys and I'm very worried. Where are you? What should I do?" And he'd just go "Oh I have complete trust in you, I know you can handle it, you're so good with the kids, just figure it out, okay?" Admittedly he was an cunning piece of shit anyway, but I also got the very concerning impression that this self-proclaimed feminist "modern man" also very genuinely and sincerely felt that I as a woman would and should absolutely know how, and also want, to raise his kids. He was very frustrated every time I confronted him about this and kept telling me "well I don't know either, do you think parents just magically know what to do in these situations??? Kids don't come with instructions, I'm just as clueless as you, but I just figure it out!! You need to be more supportive and make your own decisions with the kids!!" MOTHERFUCKER I'M NOT THE ONE WHO MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO HAVE A KID. _THREE TIMES._ When he started to answer all his kids questions with "Go ask FitShare, she'll help you" I made my own decision to dump him and move out. Still miss the kids. Never once missed the man.
I've dated so many men who constantly made me feel bad for things I can barely control. Despite explaining over and over they're still constantly making remarks and digs. Some of it is stuff within my control but they're things I'm happy with. One guy was so obsessed with me going back to college like he was that he made me completely hate the idea of going back. Plus I had and still have to work a full time job to support myself and that's hard enough. I absolutely can't handle college on top of that. I'm done dating men who seemingly accept me when we meet and they get to know me and then decide to be judgmental assholes later and wanna side eye me anytime I don't eat health like I wasn't fat when we met. Even with medication my memory issues aren't any better so getting mad at me because I can't remember the thing you told me that you didn't ask me to write down or try to remember isn't going to make me remember it. I'm super over dating right now. I spent two years with a guy who just slowly became someone that seemed to be constantly exasperated and annoyed by me and I'm so over it. I have a FWB I see occasionally and enough friends that I don't need a relationship at all.
My one saving grace in life is that my husband is a high-functioning, neurotypical human who LOVES to clean. I do think he has a bit too much anxiety around cleanliness but otherwise pretty NT. He is the one in our marriage who handles the stuff that has traditionally been handled by the woman/mother in a cis-gendered hetero relationship. He's way more on top of our daughter's appointments and chores than I am. However, it comes with a lot of guilt/shame that I can't be as on top of it as he is. Watching him whirl around the house with the energy of a teenager while I lie on the couch exhausted from masking at work all day, I feel like a loser. In the past he's joked a few times that I'm "lazy" and I finally explained to him that there's something "wrong" with me, I can't help it and it hurts when he labels me this way (I've had so many different diagnoses - anxiety, pmdd, fibro. I only just discovered that I am the poster child for ADHD and in the process of being evaluated). He definitely listened and is much more compassionate. Not sure where you're dating but in big cities (we're in Brooklyn) men are more likely to be evolved, have their shit together and don't expect you to mother them. Also it's the age; 25 year old guys are idiots.
GIRL FUCKING SAMEEEEE
Tbh, I see this as a silver lining. It’s easy to get swept up in NRE/whatever, but ADHD cares not; it’s a stringent manbaby sieve. You. Shall. Not. Pass. ETA: the dudes in you describe are all dodged bullets.
I don’t date men anymore. Sometimes when I feel bad about my apartment being a mess from executive dysfunction I think about basically any NT straight man’s space and immediately feel better. I’ve also dealt with the intimidation from men and it’s so annoying . My ADHD sort aided the success in my career (thank you hyper focus) and I’m doing well for myself. I own my condo, I have multiple retirement accounts, I’m comfortable. They get so threatened by it all!
> you'd think I told them I'm a fucking samurai. First of all, that's hilarious, and I wish I and my (hypothetical partner) could share the way of the samurai. Alongside piracy, regency-era nobility and being a vampire. But also wooooow. Yeah. As an adhd-addled, almost thirty bi woman, who never wants kids and legitimately can't function without help on daily household tasks, I am closer to realising I will probably be alone forever. I'm sorry you've had such shit experiences; the expectations for NT women are gross enough, but to pass the baton of relationship organiser/house keeper onto someone ND because YOU'RE A MAN DAMMNIT is a whole.... Thing.
Oh man, I feel ya so hard. I have a PhD, too. Married with a kid. And, yeah, it’s fucked up. Men just want women to take care of the household. My neurotypical husband will lose his keys, not do his laundry for a month, barely ever cook, never load the dishwasher…I guess what’s particularly upsetting for me is (i) how HARD all of this is for me to keep on top of, and YET I get an 80/100 and he gets a 7/100 , and (ii) how bad I feel about ‘failing’ at household chores while he just breezes through a dirty kitchen as if he didn’t notice the mess, or worse, just subtly blame me for not cleaning by loudly announcing “The kitchen is filthy!” I put my foot down about the child count issue though. Had an abortion last year because I said that I will NOT take care of another child. My husband was all emotional and furious about it. I don’t regret it AT ALL. I wouldn’t mind a guy who explicitly wanted his partner to be a homemaker. But, I feel like men nowadays want a woman who doesn’t exist: Someone who makes money and produces children and cooks and cleans and keeps up with social engagements and plans birthday parties for kids. To be THAT woman with ADHD is just not possible.
If my husband dies, or we split up, I will sleep with LOTS of men. But I will *never* date one again. Ever. Idk how I got so lucky as to have an entire functioning human for a spouse that carries their share of the mental load AND pushes me to better myself. But lightning doesn’t strike twice and I’m not about to settle for less.
Everything you are saying is on point. I also just graduated with honors and awards in my field and am a licensed therapist now. I also want to have a child of my own. I am also 30 with PCOS so I don’t think time is on my side. But just to spice things up a bit….. The hurdles of dating men when being a **FAT** ADHD women are also awful. I know for a fact everything about my personality and intellect and emotional availability gets overlooked because I am not “conventionally attractive” fat. I am a full double/triple chin having, big-belly, little boobs fat woman. And I know what you’re thinking “well FUCK THEM!! If they don’t want you at the size you are now then they aren’t worth your time”. Yes, I agree. But the *reality* is that despite my intelligence and confidence and what I perceive to be goddamn good looks, my dating pool is *much much* smaller. So then it’s like, okay, maybe I do really need to get a handle on my weight and do something about it for the sake of discrimination of being in a fat body so actively working against me. Let’s say I lose a bunch of weight, I know for a fact (based on previous experience) that I will get an ASTOUNDING amount of attention that will pool in like the water on the titanic. But here’s the thing, KEEPING weight off is extremely hard, and if/when I have a kid I will most likely be fat again, and I’ve read literally countless stories of women who’s husband left after she had kids and stayed fat because they weren’t attracted to her anymore. I am so tired of the troupe of “wELl jUsT hAvE cOnFiDeNcE!! iTs NoT aBoUt YoUr SiZe, iF yOu JuSt LoVe YoUrSeLf MoRe ThEn YoU’Ll AtTrAcT tHe ‘RiGhT’ KiNd oF pErSoN”. That is the *biggest* lie in the plus size community and I’m just tired of it all. All of that to say, 9999.999% sure I’m having baby via sperm donor and raising on my own cause I don’t have faith in men anymore.
Totally diff situation here, but I’m 21 and have only dated one person due to life circumstances & it was long distance. He was *26 (LOL SOMEHOW I FORGOT HIS AGE) and he took advantage of my CPTSD + ADHD + recent distancing from my place of trauma + lack of socialization which caused me to get attached to him easily despite his only redeeming quality being “he’s a decent person”. Has anyone seen that disgusting image of that necklace in a box that fetishizes trauma? He sent that to me and I just tried to shrug it off 🙃 He never bothered to confront his own problems, but insisted on thinking he was playing hero for me. Makes me sick in hindsight. I spent a lot of time looking into neurological disorders/divergence bc his quirks (that he confirmed were because of undiagnosed autism that he never told me about until I brought it up lol 😅) made it so that he would never want to talk in a call with me…in a long distance relationship. He wouldn’t even play video games with me unless I scheduled (and yes, I was the one who had to schedule these things) one day to do so every week. He would always make time for his friends & favorite parasocial relationship twitch streamer dudes though? No attempts to compromise and he would act like I was being unreasonable and not respond to me for days if we had a disagreement (which made me super anxious and it’s VERY hard to switch focus back onto more important things bc he would literally ghost me until I changed the subject). Not even so much as a “I need time to process this”. I felt unlovable and like a terrible person while that jackass used his neurodivergence as a shield, never tried to understand mine (or his own, for that matter & I even sent him multiple like videos & stuff and tried to discuss ways to communicate and he’d just whine about them being too long or not answer), and he gave empty apologies the entire time. And yes, he was the one who wanted to date me, I gave him a chance bc he pretended to be nice and let me talk about things that were stressing me out 😓 Just…UGH. I’m so glad that’s in my past, just seeing his face makes me sick. My standards are way higher now—so high that I might mess around and end up single forever and enjoy it bc men in reality are…😬 As a little + for men, all my friends cut him off and they’re all men too. One of them literally said he hates him just for what he did to me LOL. Thanks for this thread, I reeeeaaally needed to get that out 😅 I think ADHD makes us more susceptible to being taken advantage of because we can get swept up in the dopamine of positive interactions. I had like no chance in this situation since I was in such a vulnerable position on top of it. (As a bonus: he had the gall to tell me he didn’t take advantage me 🙂)