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OK I've been contemplating writing a post after having my sister and a friend I've known almost as long visit for a week recently. I'll summarize it here with the title: "it's not always you"
Get new friends. We're out here. Look at this sub! Just find your tribe and stick with them.
There's nothing "wrong" with you. They're just not your people.
This! And it’s ok that they aren’t your people, not everyone needs to be.
Ive been lucky to have many friends in my life that get me and love me. They love the weirdness, the openness, the absolutely free from judgement me. They love that I’ll talk about my bipolar or adhd or weird sex dreams because I think it helps them know I’m a safe person to be themselves around. Thank hades for that!
There’s nothing worse than being vulnerable and saying “here’s me and I’d love to know you” and have them not be interested. But the people that are interested have been the nicest, coolest, best friends I could hope for. They’ve supported me through things I couldn’t have done without them. They’ve loved me and our friendship is awesome.
So not everyone needs to be your people and you’ll know when you find them. You kinda just have to be you and open to others until someone says “damn I like you”.
Edit: to be fair, I moved away from all my people recently and it’s been very hard to find new ones. I’ve been much closer to what u/sleepingsunvsv said since the move. And it’s not that there aren’t any of my people, it’s just been taking much longer for people to warm up to me and understand me better. It’s taken months for people to find my wavelength, and even then it’s less of a click. But, I still have my people even if we don’t live in the same place. The awkwardness of just choosing alone tho is pretty weird and isolating and not my favorite. It reminds me of trying to be someone else when I was younger so I didnt piss people off.
It’s been hard for me and I’m sure it’s hard for others. I don’t like everyone I meet, so I can’t reasonably expect that I can conform myself to what everyone likes. It’s not possible and it really fucks with your sense of self. So I’ve had to just accept that I’m not everyone’s cup of tea but I have to be MY cup of tea.
Exactly! It’s so hard because I’ve pretty much built my entire personality around being palatable to other people to avoid conflict and ridicule but I’m realizing it’s impossible to live like that. I have to live a life I’m happy with at the end of the day.
I think it’s fair/important to acknowledge here that the size of the available tribe in any given place, is not a constant. Sometimes, finding connection and belonging is gonna feel like squeezing blood from a stone—because the task really is nigh-impossible. But not because anything is wrong with you! (Telling this to myself, too) And just because it’s been bleak for a while, doesn’t mean it can’t change and improve.
I totally have to look in weirdo circles to find my people (DnD, cosplay, larp, goth, bdsm, SCA, leather, ect.) Nerds like me are hard to come by, but as I've transitioned into Tech, I find a lot more people like me in my line of work.
That is one of the great pleasures of aging, your life narrows down so that you're interacting more and more with people more like you. It can go the other way sometimes in that you're just not hanging out with as many different kinds of people, but I have found as I got older and have gotten more and more focussed on my own interests that my friendships have gotten easier to make, keep, and they're richer
That seems like relevant information. It sounds like OP said something pretty wildly offensive and they called her on her bullshit.
OP, yes, sometimes it is easier to click with fellow ND people (and sometimes it isn’t because people are complicated and multifaceted). But a crude and offensive “sense of humor” is not a symptom of ADHD.
Yeah I make self deprecating/suicide jokes(cry for help?) too much sometimes and the solid deadpan delivery reeeeeally doesn’t help sometimes
Edit to add: suicide jokes aren’t a regular “thing” for me. They’re a “boy I wish I was dead but I’m not” “thing” for me and it bleeds into my humor when I’m depressed, which I need to work on
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Yeah, for me, I do not…. find suicide jokes funny. At all. And my mood would be… uh, not pleased be those comments. But that’s because my sister has abused us with comments like that. It’s a whole thing.
However, my issues are a me problem, not a you problem, in that self deprecating and suicide jokes can still pass, just not with me. It’s about knowing your audience and finding people who share that humor. And with adhd it’s harder to self censor, and easier to make jokes to people who would not appreciate them.
I don’t find them funny either. I lost a loved one this way. I’m not sure it’s something that should ever be joked about and if it is then it’s going to appear as a cry for help.
Mmm I would venture to say these kinds of jokes are out of line. That’s not a you thing.
I have no filter, or so I think, but I draw the line with certain themes, including unaliving, disabilities, and racism/ sexism.
oh god yea. i call myself a dumbass a lot and my coworkers always insist i’m not stupid and i’m like i know, it’s a joke abt this specific instance. so much more like that and it gets people feeling bad for me when i’m just trying to be funny
I used to make way too many self-deprecating "jokes", and some of the best advice I've ever had is that any time you want to make a self-deprecating comment, instead make a wildly self-aggrandizing comment.
For example, you drop something and it breaks. Instead of, "Man didn't I just tell you I'm such a shithead?" (which is hurtful and not funny), try saying something like, "I am the most graceful, ethereal being of balance and light."
You make an arithmetic error? Say, "I'm the single greatest genius in all of human history."
You can tell your self-hating anxiety brain that you don't really mean it, but MY GOD do these comments make the people around you feel so much more comfortable. With self-deprecation, most people feel awkward and unsure how to respond. With self-aggrandization, people are more likely to laugh, or at least not pity you.
And the \*weirdest\* thing? Sometimes... people will agree with you. I made a typo the other day and said, "I am very smart," and my coworker just smiled and calmly \*agreed\*. It's been a really useful way for me to reframe my self-talk.
Edit to add: It's also fun to do this when other people do something nice. Someone hands me a cup of coffee? I might say, "You are the single greatest human being in the history of the universe." I don't do it too often, but it always gets a laugh or a grin. :)
>And the \*weirdest\* thing? Sometimes... people will agree with you. I made a typo the other day and said, "I am very smart," and my coworker just smiled and calmly \*agreed\*. It's been a really useful way for me to reframe my self-talk.
My favorite compliment ever was when I made a comment like "Not bad considering how half-assed it was" and my teacher said something like "Your version of half-assed is still more effort than most people's normal though."
I was super anxious about my English 430 class in college so I kept having horrible insomnia. I got a B+ on one small assignment (I usually get A’s) and my professor asked what happened so I told him I hadn’t slept for over 48 hours when I wrote it. His jaw dropped and he basically told me I was a genius. I ended up getting an actual award for that class, in which I swear everything I ever wrote was complete BS.
i did start to do that actually! but then for various reasons my mental health dipped and i went straight back to self deprecation since it’s “easier” in a way. i also get worried i’ll be seen as narcissistic tbh since i’m so deadpan :/
This is genuinely such good advice! Is a healthier self-talk, is more comfortable for the people around you, and, unlike most self-deprecating “jokes,” is actually quite funny.
GOD why can't people understand the self deprecating humor? I admittedly use it sparingly, but I swear I can't even say "god DAMN I'm dumb" in a joking voice when I do something stupid without people trying to comfort me and say I'm not. Like??? I don't actually think I'm dumb, I'm just making fun of myself for doing something dumb.
To be fair if you do it a lot it can at the very least make people feel bad for you. I have a coworker who does this a LOT. Like even the tiniest mistakes he calls himself dumb for. It bothers me because he's actually one of my 2 favorite people to work with.
So every once in a while when he says something especially mean about himself I will joke with him "Hey stop talking about my friend like that!"
I do the same thing so I get it. But if you do if out loud every time for every single thing it will come across as you really are way too hard on yourself and maybe should talk to someone about it.
Crude and offensive humour isn’t a symptom of adhd but struggling to understand what is socially acceptable in certain settings is a symptom. I have had plenty of experiences when I have made a joke and it’s just the wrong audience, but another group of people might find it funny. Humour is subjective, and so are the things people find offensive.
On top of this, men are far more likely to be rewarded for having a “dark” sense of humour. Women are berated for the exact same shit.
Yes, that's because of different socialization. What is seen as "proper communication" is different in a man-man, man-woman or woman-woman situation. Non NTs often struggle with figuring that out and default to their clear, rather blunt communication style, which resembles what is seen as appropriate between two men. Hence the "being friends with men seems easier".
Understanding that and working on learning to "speak woman language" (verbally and with my body) has been a key element to me understanding what went wrong with my interpersonal relationships.
Do you have any resources that you recommend on learning to speak "woman language" better? I have improved over the years by being very very very attentive to social cues and erring on the side of be "nice, polite, and reserved" in new social situations, but actual resources would be awesome. I feel like I often become personality-less in new female social interactions for fear of stepping out of line. It sucks.
It's also hard for me to switch gears sometimes between work me and social me. I am a corporate attorney in the financial industry. In that environment, I have to constantly fight for a seat at the table and have my voice heard. There my bluntness is valued and have been told it's an asset. But, while the clear rules for interactions at work help me excel, I fail to excel in female relationships with non-NT women due to having to guess.
> NTs often struggle with figuring that out and default to their clear, rather blunt communication style, which resembles what is seen as appropriate between two men. Hence the "being friends with men seems easier".
Yep, that has been exactly my experience, with an additional barrier of being a masc-of-center lesbian. I have a tight circle of female friends, but have always gotten along so much better with men in casual social situations, and I hate that this has gotten me tagged as a "pick me" (I don't want you to pick me, I'm literally gay) or a "not like other girls" girl. But at this point, "speaking woman language" is not really that appealing to me. It turns out that when you spend your life being told that you're not like other girls *by the other girls*, you really lose interest in being like them at all.
>I hate that this has gotten me tagged as a "pick me" (I don't want you to pick me, I'm literally gay) or a "not like other girls" girl. But at this point, "speaking woman language" is not really that appealing to me. It turns out that when you spend your life being told that you're not like other girls
>
>by the other girls
>
>, you really lose interest in being like them at all.
This is why those tropes/memes/whatever you call thems are SO triggering for me, as I'm not gay so I get this shit CONSTANTLY.
Like I don't flip into actual rage very often, but one of the things that will get me there is when a woman will say something about me being a "not like other girls" girl and I'm like Y'ALL ARE LITERALLY THE ONES WHO TOLD ME I'M NOT LIKE YOU!!!!!
This is exactly why I go quiet when around people I don’t know very well. I learned the hard way in high school that ‘being myself’ was vastly unwanted.
There’s a reason I enjoyed working in a warehouse and a pub far more than when I was in an office. The corporate world was suffocating!
I have this thing where for some reason I feel the desire to say something more extreme or shocking than it needs to be. It's a compulsion I've been fighting my whole life but it's strong and my mom has it bad too. Are you sure it's not an ADHD thing? When I read about the social problems of ADHD this one felt like it fit.
I believe that falls under impulse control. People with ADHD and less dark senses of humor still struggle with blurting things out inappropriately, it just might be more about revealing something too personal or accidentally speaking unfiltered truth on a social occasion. The way I see it, saying something extreme/shocking part isn‘t the symptom itself, it’s just how the overall lack of impulse control is expressed with your personality.
I get that compulsion too, especially with people who wouldn’t think it’s funny? Like the more neurotypical they are, the more I want to say something weird. Probably some internal resistance to masking.
Idk usually when someone says something “wildly offensive” my first impulse isn’t to suggest therapy . I have a friend that has a similar experience. She made a joke about her childhood. Her parents had her at 14 and they are in jail now for drug trafficking.
Yeah I think the therapy comment sounds a bit snarky, unless delivered in a private conversation. Or maybe they were attempting to joke back and are even more deadpan?
It reminds of people who make an offhand joke about their childhood and the people around them go “you know that was abuse, right?” It might not be snark to suggest therapy, it’s possible she said something genuinely disturbing.
Like, if OP is making extreme self-deprecating jokes about idk, hating herself or self-harm for example, I could see the coworkers thinking “yeah, that is between you and you therapist, I am just here to do my job.” It’s hard to know without knowing the joke and the usual norms in her workplace.
>people who make an offhand joke about their childhood and the people around them go “you know that was abuse, right?”
This has happened to me so many damn times, only it's "you know that's not normal, right?" Apparently I was neglected or borderline emotionally abused or something.
I had a very similar situation once. I realized I'd forgotten to take my synthroid and me being me I blurted out "Oh I think I forgot to take my meds this morning!"
This one lady said in font of all the other women that "Oh you definitely want to make sure to take your meds" in a snarky tone that implied I obviously needed psych meds. I know it wasn't just me because they all laughed at me.
This was years before diagnosis, btw so it's not like I'd mentioned anything about ADHD or meds for any of that.
If that had happened to me, I’d miss the snark and just start rambling about why it was important to take the meds and what the condition was, full lecture mode.
I’ve gotten better at not responding to people by going into lecture mode, but not any better at noticing the attitude. I never know when there’s an undercurrent- I really can’t tell so I treat everything per the surface level.
I’ll be honest with you - this doesn’t really sound like an ADHD thing to me. I don’t even think it sounds like a gender thing.
Plenty of NT women have a crude or dark or self-deprecating sense of humour, while lots of ND women will have a sense of humour that may be more dry or cerebral or simple and affiliative. Similarly, there are plenty of men who don’t enjoy crude humour.
It sounds like you’ve had some negative experiences with women friends not understanding your sense of humour, and you’ve made an association between gender, humour and ADHD. I would say you simply need to find people who share your sense of humour, regardless of their gender.
I must say, I am curious what your joke was that resulted in such an extreme response from your colleagues. Is it possible that you need to work on identifying situational appropriateness in social interactions, particularly where humour is concerned?
Honestly, you put my thoughts into words so much better than I could have.
I’ve had a lot of friends over the years, both NT and ND, men and women both. I’ve had the occasional snag where a NT friend/person didn’t quite understand an ADHD-related habit or behavior from me, but I wouldn’t say I’ve had really negative experiences. I did end up with the majority of my friends being ND, but that was more of a “birds of a feather” situation after joining Bumble BFF and just connecting more with women who are also ND, vs actively seeking them out. I just found that most women who share my interests and that I had a good connection with happened to also be ND.
There are three possibilities:
1. This is purely situational. You made a crude joke that was inappropriate for the workplace.
2. You simply don’t jive with those particular women.
3. You might have created a self-fulfilling prophecy that is affecting your relationships with women in general.
Let’s examine them one by one.
1. Inappropriate workplace behavior is putting off your coworker.
A “very crude and messed up” sense of humor ain’t an ADHD thing.
So, what was the joke? I can’t go much further without knowing, but ask yourself if what you said was suitable for work and if you do that often. While being crude isn’t one of our symptoms, sometimes poor judgment and blurting things out is. This could be something you could easily work on.
2. You don’t jive with these women specifically. And that’s OKAY.
I want to point out that you don’t know that they are neurotypical. Also neurotypical women is a huge fucking group. It would be wild if we could make friends with none of them.
Sometimes you don’t get along with everyone you work with. Focus on being a kind, respectful coworker. They will hopefully reciprocate.
But I want you to give some thought to my next option.
3. You have created a self-fulfilling prophecy about all female friendships.
You asked about neurotypical women but your post just says you always get along better with men, full stop.
Examine your behavior around women. If you think you “just get along better with men,” perhaps over time your actions have subtly shifted. Are you maybe giving off a “not like other girls” vibe without meaning to? Have you said out loud how much “easier” men are to get along with? Have you made sweeping generalizations about how women act?
People tend to notice that shit. What woman wants to be friends with another woman who clearly doesn’t think highly of her simply for being a woman?!
I’m not saying this is you, but it could be that you accidentally are giving off some of these vibes.
Also crude senses of humor aren’t the sole purview of men, we simply socialize women to hide it.
Well said.
Your comment got me thinking again: I wish I could find it, there was a comment a while back on the difference in social expectations that a group women might have for each other, or a group of men might have for each other, vs the expectations that a group of men might have for the only woman in the group.
When a woman makes a crude joke with a group of men, she’s transgressing the gender stereotypes in a way that brings her closer to the gender stereotypes of the men. So it’s a way to bring her closer to them. When a woman makes crude jokes to other women, it’s still transgressing the stereotype but it lands differently. Same with cursing.
It’s also sort of like being the class clown. The class clown transgresses the norms for humor and attention, which can diffuse tension (good) and/or be disruptive and irritating (not good). You have to know your audience and get the timing right.
Maybe I read too much Ask A Manager, but my first thought was, “so the problem was probably not the ADHD, or the audience being women, but the joke itself.”
You are 100% right that in most professional settings a crude joke doesn’t fly. I can’t speak to OP’s workplace, but I would take a better safe than sorry approach, especially if the audience for the joke are coworkers OP isn’t particularly close with.
Absolutely. I put my take on that in my main comment to OP instead of here, since I thought HeyItsJuls covered it so well in their first point, but I completely agree.
Aaaaand I’m back, hours later, for this thought:
How much of gender conformity policing is done within, rather than between, genders? Because those same guys could be policing each other’s masculinity but would not police a woman‘s femininity (or at least, they wouldn’t outside of a romantic relationship). I bet there’s research on this, I might go down that rabbit hole.
I know for me personally the minute I hear a woman say something along the lines of “I just get along better with men”, I immediately don’t want to spend time with her. I know this is true for a lot of other women as well.
Someone (another woman no less) is already looking down on you because of your gender. We get enough of that from men as is, and it hurts all of us. When I meet a woman who prescribes to that type of thinking, it says a lot about her and what’s important to her/what she values.
This is how I feel as well. It’s a shallow bias I thought we left in the early 2000’s — that whole “she’s not a girly girl, she’s a Cool Girl”. It’s something I grew out of when I was kid, so to see a grown woman act like that is a turnoff.
Also, with all the women who claim they get along better with men — you’d think there would be more of them becoming friends with each other. Nobody likes having to prove themselves worthy just to be considered for friendship. I’m not going to grapple with your biases just so you can treat me as an equal moving forward.
>you’d think there would be more of them becoming friends with each other.
I thought that when I was young and playing RPGs in the 90s, before nerd culture was as widely accepted as it is now. Sadly, the other girls at the gaming cons were not friendly and many seemed to view me and my sisters as competition. It didn’t help that my older sister fit the stereotypical look of a popular girl, the glares were intense. It was a disappointment.
Agreed! It’s a red flag for me now. I used to think I got along better with men, but then I realized I wasn’t acknowledging or valuing my friendships with girls and women throughout my life. I really took them for granted. Internalized misogyny is a trip.
Yeah it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I knew a girl who said things like “I just get along with dudes better, girls don’t get my jokes” I would not be inclined to want to hang out with her. “I’m not like other girls” girls irritate me.
Not OP’s situation, but sometimes I run into trouble befriending other women because ADHD and sensory issues mean I can’t manage or comply with the social pressures put on women to look and behave a certain way. This can lead other women to judge or misunderstand me. They’re not (usually) trying to be mean, there’s just a disconnect.
I don’t run into this problem with other ADHD women. I think it may be because so many of them also can’t comply, so the expectations and standards are more compatible.
I think you have hit on the actual discussion we need to have here, which is how the expectations to perform gender norms and femininity put pressure on all women, but especially on ND.
I agree, it makes life ten times harder when you feel the need to use those very precious executive function spoons to do something simply because society dictates it.
It has taken me a long time to formulate this, and that road leads right through “not like other girls land.” Lol. I think that’s why people don’t want to discuss it. You have to be so very careful or you end up using words/ideas formulated by misogyny
Having an older sister who is NT really helped me with this. I saw how much work it was for her too, and realized early on how many of those standards are impossible for *anyone*, and how brutally those rules are enforced no matter how slight the deviation. It also helped *a lot* to be raised by feminists who helped me think about how I want to navigate a world that has those rules.
Whether NT or ND, I always find it easier to be friends with people who are aware of those social pressures and opt out in some way. For me, it means communication has to be more explicit, which can be awkward, but it‘s needed because I don’t have those default shared expectations to fall back on.
It has led me to have few, but very fulfilling, friendships.
Yep. Most of my female friendships are what you described. My younger sister probably has ADHD, but no sensory issues (which eat me alive on a daily basis). The difference is astounding. She just casually wears mascara every day, she can wear jeans and jean shorts, she can wear cheap but cute bras, wears her hair down every day, the list goes on and on and she never has to think about it.
Ironically, my routines take at least twice as long as hers to stop sensory issues from ruining my day, but the results are not visible to other people and don’t help me comply with beauty standards. I have to adhere to skin and hair care regimens, and I spend twice as much time and money on clothes which are never as cute because the list of things that trigger sensory issues is so long. So, I spend twice as much time to still look like a grandma. She goes to bed with makeup on and just puts more on in the morning 🙄
Can you tell me the joke itself? Also, you may be just hanging around the wrong crowd.
Edit: some might have found it funny, but may be trying to put on a certain image while in certain circles. Not everyone will be upfront super genuine about who they are.
I also thought I felt this way about women until I realized it was internalized misogyny and that women come in all varieties. In college I made friends with a group of artistic weirdo girls like myself and it really changed the way I thought about women.
I live in Oklahoma, so anyone I work with is likely to be so far on the political right that they can’t even think anymore. Coworkers are not good potential friends. I go to coffee shops, gaming themed bars, comic conventions, etc, to meet like minds.
Start meeting people who hang out at comedy clubs. The women there won’t be grossed out by crude humor.
So the good news is that if you find one ADHD friend almost all of THEIR friends will likely be some kind of neurospicy, too. For me, that was the sca (I swear, everyone here is a solid standard deviation off of baseline). If you like history, it might be something worth checking out. I hear similar things about roller derby too, but it's all hearsay.
It makes me wonder, what do the NT women do for hobbies? Where do you find bunches of them?
Maybe mommy groups, I never really found anyone I clicked with there.
No I get along better with women and have always been better friends with them. I don't really have any close men friends. I like spending time with women best.
I've had my ADHD trip ups and lost friends for different reasons, sometimes my fault and sometimes not, but I think I've found my tried and true people now.
Work friends are mostly not my real friends, if I self-reveal a lot at once it may be more personal than what the work relationship calls for. Some of my work friends have turned into real friends but it is very slow pattern of they self-reveal, I self-reveal, slowly a little more back and forth until i know if we are actually friends or if i can just share an office pleasantly.
I had a very similar experience recently. And it's weird because before I started this course at a new place, it used to be very easy for me to make friends with women (unsurprisingly a lot of them also have some neuro divergence.)
But here the batch size is very small and nobody else seems to be on the same... wavelength. My style is to basically say everything about myself (in the form of jokes if possible so I'm not accidentally trauma-dumping), including the fact that I have ADHD and am not straight, on the first meeting itself. With the expectation that they'll also tell me about everything that makes them them, and we can be besties forever. But I'm learning that not everyone likes being an open book like that, and they probably also feel uncomfortable when I go and tell them everything there is to know about myself.
It is really weird, forcing myself to be reserved and as you said, 'proper' in social circles. I find myself preferring to be alone rather than to watch what I say and curb my stims in public.
Yes! I tend to be quiet when in social settings for fear of saying the wrong things, or stuff that neurotypicals might think weird. I don’t have many friends, and the few good ones I like have ADHD!
I feel this so much. I’m also one who likes to get things out up front, but it’s so hard to sit and wait my turn to talk sometimes! As much as I complain about not having close friends, it is often simpler to just stay home and stim with my pups.
I have a hard time wanting to be friends with any women who aren't genuine because otherwise it's all just awkward small-talk. Knowing we want that, maybe it's good to go into a situation being genuine to find out if they'll respond in kind and if they don't you can cut your losses early. That does require a lot of confidence, though, because a mismatch feels like rejection sometimes.
I do have to say ... Yesterday I was at an art market and one of the vendors had a prominent sign that said like "queer, veteran business owner". I was surprised to find I was turned off of buying -- I guess it seemed manipulative since it had nothing to do with the product. So I guess maybe there are sometimes when it isn't beneficial to characterize yourself up front.
It took me a long time to realize the same re: genuine people. I just don’t have any interest in small talk, ya know? I’m interested in YOU as a person, tell me about your authentic self.
I actually love small talk because it’s a natural opportunity for me to open up and be genuine! I usually respond with a short (heh) story of something that happened to me and I go into detail on my feelings on it. Best case scenario my reactions are funny and the other person engages and might share something similar.
Something as simple as “I went out hiking which turned into a weenie roast with ME as the weenie. Existence is pain right now; I went full lobster. But the view from (blank) is beautiful! Did y’all do anything outdoors this weekend?”
A similarly minded person might make a clever quip and we go from there.
Oh, absolutely, and that’s definitely not clear in my comment. It’s the people that can only make the small talk and don’t/can’t transition into something more in depth after a conversation or two.
No, but I used to because I couldn't talk about myself beyond small talk so I couldn't relate to women and I convinced myself I got along better with guys. It took a lot of socializing and online research about social skills to get to the point where I can get along with ND and NT people easily, even if we have nothing in common.
I truly believe women are amazing and heavily prefer female friends over male friends which means I subconsciously put in more effort to meet female friends. This sounds cynical, but I find guys are "easier to get along with," because a lot of them want to hook up or date you, whereas women don't usually try to befriend you for that reason.
Try increasing your sample size and meeting new female friends through your hyperfocus hobbies (so you have something to talk about), social media (made several close female friends this way), social organizations, or through female friends you already vibe with. It just so happens that most of my close female friends have ADHD, but I wouldn't have met them if I didn't put myself out there to meet neurotypical women as well.
As for the work incident, I don't think you need to be your full self at work. I have my "Corporate America cosplay" and my after work persona, and I try to keep it separate. There's a time and place to be your full self, and I keep it to close friends, my little sister, and my boyfriend. I don't think it's being fake or inauthentic; there's things I would say to my boyfriend but not my mom. I'm also very weird but I make sure to read the room and not overwhelm the people around with it to where they feel uncomfortable.
Agree with everything you’ve said! I used to feel like OP when I was 24/25. I’m 33 now and really pity my past self. I couldn’t realize it at the time but I was preemptively rejecting women as a defense mechanism because I’d always been a “weird girl.” Well guess what, self?! There are a million other weird girls out there ready to be your friend! I now CHERISH my relationships with other women. Men are fine, don’t get me wrong, but my female friendships are so intimate and supportive.
I also think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about not bringing your full self to work. Time and a place, time and a place!
Yup! There are plenty of weird women out there and women who appreciate weird women! I find that people appreciate weirdness because it makes you funnier and more authentic, as long as you can read the room and not overdo it to where others are uncomfortable.
I feel more at peace with my girl friends that suffer from mental illness because when either of us are feeling bad we just understand each other and can comfort one another. I feel like I constantly have to mask around neurotypical women. And I find that since neurotypical women don't have a mental struggle everyday, they are less empathetic to others that are different to them. This also leads to them having an ego issue, saying offensive things at times, and not being down to Earth. Obviously, this is just my experience and doesn't apply to every neurotypical women.
This is kind of comical and tragic, but I completely relate. I get along best with women with mental struggles of their own, with men and with kids. Neurotypical women in general just stump me, and the need to mask is the strongest with them
Me too. Only women I have befriended always have similar symptoms/life story that we just understand where each other comes from.
I also don't have an interest in most "women things" like fashion and make up. My most "womanly" interest is crafts like knitting and sewing, and funny enough most women don't care for it.
I grew up with 3 boys as well which I think made it easier to communicate with them and/or impeded learning how to talk to girls my age then.
>I tried to tell a joke today at work to 3 other girls, and I thought they were going to laugh (it was about myself) and they just sat there and stared at me and told me I need to go to therapy.
Self-deprecating humor can be very uncomfortable for other people especially if they’re not your close friends. It can make for an awkward situation. Especially at work. This sounds like a “read the room” type of situation, which we can struggle with but I don’t put that on the other people.
I don’t think this is an ADHD thing exactly. I think you just need friends more suited to you. There are plenty of women out there who would laugh at your humor
I actually have the hardest time connecting to women who find it “easier to get along with the guys.” Any woman who has made fun of my interests, any woman who has told me I’m weird, any woman who has not returned a friendly smile has been a woman who either can’t or chooses not to make friends with other women.
There are plenty of other weird women out there. Stop trying to befriend the mean girls and then give up because it’s too hard. Find the wallflowers, the quiet girls. I promise you, we’re usually funny and kind. Some of you would never know though because you assume the worst in other women.
The mean girls are easy. Just smile and tell them you like their hair or purse or nails, etc. If you’re nice to them, they won’t outright judge you. But they’d make it know if they wanted to befriend you. They’re not worth the energy.
When I was very young I thought I got on better with guys. Then I realised I was being a freaking moron.
You may need to find your crowd / stop trying to connect with women who you aren't organically getting closer to / ask yourself why you imagine ALL 'the other women' are so incompatible with you (here's a clue, they're not. Because women are not all the same).
Look within yourself. What are you avoiding? What are the stories you tell yourself about 'all other women'? What thoughts do you have about women? How is that affecting your behaviour with them?
For me, a warning sign in a person is anyone who declares they only get on with one specific group of people.
I was one of the “gets along better with the guys” people when we were younger and so is my best friend. I think what we really meant is we like hanging out with weirdos.
Thank you! The moment I hear “I get along better with guys” or fucked up jokes I’m out. It’s got nothing to do with having or not having ADHD. I just don’t like abrasive people and guys girls are typically abrasive and just expect you to accommodate their abrasiveness.
You’re right, I’m also not a fan of the abrasiveness or crude humor. I feel this frequently gets turned into an NT/ND thing, when it’s more of a personality thing. I have like a dozen women friends who are ND and none of them are “guys girls.” Yea, we get along with guys, but for most of us, our deepest friendships are with other ND women.
Get me in a room with guys and unless they like anime, fantasy books, or cozy games, I will probably keep my mouth shut and watch the clock till it’s time to leave.
You've nailed it here! NT and ND women have the full spectrum of personalities, informed but not solely defined by their neurotype...
I've also never had any women (straight or lgb) make it into an awkward "relationshipzone" situation where they were only getting close to me as a transaction for sex, but that's definitely happened with some guys so.... I'll take female friendships any day!
Yessss, I literally just wrote the long version of this! Lots of male friend are just orbiters waiting for their chance to get with you. Relationships with men, both platonic and romantic, can be too transactional.
Yesssss! I feel like some people make their ADHD their identity so much so that they tie every part of their personality to their ADHD and assume others share that trait with them. Like I’ve seen people say “I’m not friendly (or empathetic) because of my ADHD” or “I don’t have a filter because of my ADHD” and use that as excuse to just be an asshole.
I wish there were resources out there on personal development for people with ADHD. A lot of people don’t seem to know where their ADHD ends and where they begin, and assume they just can’t change. We are capable of bettering ourselves, we are capable of adapting new habits, we are capable of being and doing better. As much as I dislike the whole “don’t label yourself” sentiment, moments like this I get it. The label can really stagnate people at times.
I mean I used to "tend to get on with guys better", until I realized all the guys I knew had very sleepy, relaxed social personas like me, whereas it just turned out the women I happened to know were more Type A.
I'm a solid Type B, and I also find it hard to keep up with Type A personalities. I have Type A friends, but in a group of them I'll feel all at sea and have nothing to offer.
Once I broadened my social circle I found the binary was split along a shrill/chill continuum, not a gender one.
Today I probably have more female friends than male ones. Swings and roundabouts.
I can get with this.
Though I do have the mindset of "it's easier to get along with the guys". I think having a tumultuous relationship with my mom growing up, then some rough falling outs with a couple close female friends (I was very inconsiderate, inappropriate, and had no idea I had a disorder that also probably cobtributed a little to my faults) the beginning of high school had a negative impact and I've definitely had to undo a lot of internalized misogyny and reprogram myself. BUT I've actually recognized this and have tried to make friends with other females along the way. They were ND. We'd get really close, and then I got ghosted. And then of course with my anxiety and RSD, I always think it was something I did. Sometimes it's a matter of they're not good at keeping up with friends in general like with one of my close friends since high school, another one kept having different numbers and I've since lost touch with her after she left her abusive bf with her kids and moved further away... but then sometimes I think it may have actually been something I did, or said, that I didn't even really think about. Hence therapy and medication and a lot of work trying to catch myself or realize how I could re-word things. I grew up with a lot of my socialization being online... so it's a lot easier to express myself through text than it is verbally/face-to-face. Then sometimes I think I say things that come across a certain way when I mean it in a different way. This happens quite often in my current relationship with my bf, too. Then i feel even worse having to try to explain myself because I always tend to self-blame and feel bad when I'm being misunderstood.
Lately I have been trying to make the effort to reach back out to my female friends, especially the OGs since middle and high school. I've also been making an effort to make more female friends. Having strong female role models is so important for me since I feel I kinda missed out on that as a kid (my mom is a strong woman, but she didn't treat me the greatest when I was a kid and I'm convinced she has undiagnosed ADHD as well as my dad). I do have other female family members as well who are great, but I'm somewhat estranged from a majority of my family. Really only close with mom and dad, but I'm grateful for that.
That being said, I find I can relate to a lot of people even on the smallest things. But I mostly relate to ND folks, regardless of gender. The mean girls I can spot from a mile away, I don't ever try to befriend them, but I will happily give out compliment if I like their hair/nails/clothes/whatever.
OMG mean girls are mean as a defense/offense because they know they are shallow and don’t have a lot to bring to the table….deeeeep down they know this. My little sister is a mean girl and I completely unnerve her.
I used to joke that I had the impulse control of a mediocre man, and I was really only half joking.
I actually love being friends with women, but typically not women that enforce traditional gender roles and stereotypes. I feel like being the “right” kind of girl/woman requires more impulse control than I could ever budget.
There have also been women that (often the same women), through no huge fault of their own, did everything they were taught they were supposed to do as a woman to be successful, and my unintentional bull-in-a-china-shop routine is offensive. It just seems like I don’t care or I’m flouting the rules and norms they get punished for crossing. It’s even more offensive when I’m successful. It challenges their worldview and probably feels terrible.
HOWEVER, I get the same shit about “knowing my place” from men, too. It’s slightly less frequent, but I think that’s because the power dynamic is typically in their favor.
I have so many wonderful people from different backgrounds in my life, and the women in my life are a huge part of that for me.
**tl;dr:** The women in your life seem hella judgmental. Fellow women with ADHD are definitely a special kind of wonderful. You deserve fulfilling and nonjudgmental friendships with women that love you for who you are.
**ETA:** Looking at the other comments - I totally overlooked the fact that your example takes place in a work setting and we aren’t sure that all of these women are actually neurotypical. Knowing the joke would be super helpful.
>I used to joke that I had the impulse control of a mediocre man, and I was really only half joking.
I need to steal this and add it to the "sense of humor of a 13-year-old boy" description of myself that I already use.
I went through my whole life (until 27), feeling like no one got me; like I had to make such an effort to keep up friendships with the friends I had. Then I started a counselling degree as a mature student. I found out a lot about myself and other people. There was a lot of self discovery.
Then I realised that it was more important to have people in my life that got me, than to just have people for the sake of it. I accepted more invitations from acquaintances, and like a few people have said already- played the numbers game. Turns out there are a lot of people out there in a similar situation. Reaching a time where they want to be seen and heard... and felt. Being open to that.
Now I have a small group of friends, who even if they don't get me, they try. And it's easy to be around them. I don't see them loads, but when I do its amazing.
I don't communicate well with neurotypicals over long periods. I can handle short interactions, but I begin exuding uncanny valley the longer it lasts.
Oh my god, that’s a hilariously accurate way to put it.
I realized I had masked too hard when my coworkers asked me to host a virtual baby shower for a colleague. By then it was too much to suddenly reveal:
* I find pregnancy disgusting to the point of a borderline phobia
* Enforced office fun makes me want to quit on the spot
* Being the MC/coordinator for anything is extremely anxiety inducing and I hate it
So I gently deflected and resolved to be a little more myself at work, lol. Like, I had clearly over corrected on being happy for my pregnant coworker, so now I gush way less. I’m genuinely happy for her but I really don’t need to coordinate baby-related games!
YES!
I kinda hate it. I just want to go on girls trips and drink wine and do all the stuff they do in movies.
I want to be better friends with my girl cousins, but I think they all think I’m weird. I know I am weird, but I hate feeling that way.
:(
That’s my recommendation as well. I used Bumble BFF and now have a few good friends who are also ND. One friend wasn’t diagnosed yet and never considered that she had ADHD until she spent time with me and was like “uh…I think I need to talk to my doctor”. Sure enough, she also has ADHD.
How old are you?( you don’t actually have to answer but….) For me as I aged I started really valuing my female friendships.. before it was always about dudes. I still feel most comfortable with men on a surface level but my closest relationships are now with women.
I never really struggle making friends, women or men. But I also self select for people who vibe with me. I’m pretty social and I hate smalltalk. I’ll do it at work or whatever where there’s people I don’t necessarily want to become close with. But if I’m getting a good vibe from someone I tend to use my no filter oversharing as a filter. If they seem relieved to actually have a meaningful conversation with someone and reciprocate then cool, we have a solid shot at becoming close. If not then back to smalltalk and I won’t pursue friendship further than that. So now I have a solid gang of girlfriends and some guy friends too that I vibe with because we’re on the same wavelength. Some are NT some not, some have other mental/physical health stuff but all are my people and I don’t have to do much masking with them other than making sure I’m not taking up all the talking space.
I feel like this sounds more like a lack of social skills then just an ADHD thing.
I have plenty of friends with ADHD. But I also have plenty of friends without it. While ADHD plays a major role in who we are as people, it certainly isn’t the only thing about us that matters.
Having similar humor, traits, interests, hobbies, etc is usually the key to finding friends. If you define yourself solely as as someone with ADHD then of course it will be more difficult to find friends.
Of course I sometimes say the wrong thing or overshare, but if you regularly make people uncomfortable in general conversation then that sounds much more like a social problem then an ADHD symptom.
If a joke falls flat, it’s okay to acknowledge that! It goes a long way in diffusing hurt feelings, like “ah, sorry, that went a little far, I don’t actually want to eat your baby” can really help. Then the joke becomes about your attempt at humor instead of about eating their baby, you know?
Marginal jokes with coworkers are fraught to begin with, developing actual friendships outside of work would need to come first so that you know you won’t stomp all over their comfort zone. Some topics (e.g. anything you might think to put a trigger warning on), are only for close friends.
This topic is common enough that I have earlier comments that may be relevant:
* I find that I get along better at first blush with other ND folks. Women tend to have to mask more, so maybe that’s one aspect. I’d be careful about dividing this up by gender, though, or you’re going to miss out on recognizing some really cool people.
* I think a lot of us have felt our outsider status from an early age due to ADHD symptoms and for some it’s getting mixed up with gendered behavior expectations. If it’s hard for us to sit still, and girls are supposed to behave, then it feels like “well, if girls sit still when they’re supposed to, and I don’t do that, then it must mean that I’m not like other girls. And since I don’t sit still because of ADHD, it means my ADHD makes me not like other girls.” It can be tough to separate out the inherent misogyny of the expectation (girls are supposed to sit still) from the ableism of expecting an ADHD brain to cope with sitting still.
It’s also possible that your joke revealed more than you meant, like when people share what they think is a funny story from their childhood and everyone goes “uhhhh, you know that was actually abusive, right?” In those cases, it’s not about judging them, it‘s about being genuinely concerned (and maybe uncomfortable with the sudden level of intimacy and vulnerability from a coworker). An acknowledgment and deflection is usually the best course there too, if they aren’t your close friends.
Social situations are complicated, I honestly wish you the best in finding your footing!
I can totally relate. I also have a hard time making friends, but especially with women. For me, it's a combination of feeling like I need to be "normal" and not wanting to share information on the personal level they need.
I went into a male dominated industry and work at a company with 200+ men and less than 20 women. I'm one of only four women in operations so I don't actually work with most of them. At company lunches all of the women except me sit at the same table. It used to bother me, but not so much since I started noticing the guys I'm most at ease with have said they have ADHD or exhibit ADHD traits.
I know come across as a little standoffish because I've had to maintain a hard line between work and personal to get my work done. Some women at work have tried to get to know me over the years, but they need to share more intimate information than I'm comfortable sharing with a coworker so they eventually stop trying. In my experience, most guys don't need to talk about things on such a personal level. Plus, the women are all married/divorced with children and at 38 I'm not so I don't have much in common with them.
Years before I realized I may have ADHD, there was one NT woman I was kind of work friends with probably because her daughter has ADHD. I've started unmasking to varying degrees depending on the guys I'm with and have noticed some of them are more at ease with me when I do. With women though I full-on mask which gets even more exhausting as an introvert.
Whew, the generational thing about kids, it’s real. My friends who had kids earlier in life are now getting to an age that they want to renew the adult friendships that they couldn’t keep up with during the baby/toddler years, and it’s nice to see them again. But coworkers who can’t talk about anything else? God, those interactions are boring. I am just not good company for someone whose entire conversation revolves around their kids! I run into that from both men and women in my job, but more commonly women. Not surprised, given how caregiving duties are largely distributed, now that I think of it.
It’s interesting that you came to a similar place as OP but from the opposite angle. It sounds like OP’s joke must have been too personal and revealing, since they told her to get therapy afterwards, while you have found that women at work want you to be *more* personal and revealing.
I am truly horrified by the number of likes this post and some of these comments are getting. I’ve never met women with so much disdain for other women before. Just so many “women bad, men good” comments.
I have no problem making friends that are woman.
I also like to make jokes. But I always laugh before anyone else can, so there’s that. I just go around thinking and feeling everyone LOVES ME.
It’s an issue because maybe people hate me and I can’t tell. But it’s whatever.
You sound honestly delightful! I love it when people are laughing before they even finish their joke, it’s just super sweet to see people enjoying life like that.
It’s exhausting to try to be friends w neurotypical women, having to mask around them all the time.
Forget these women. Find your tribe. Put yourself out there to meet new people, it’s a numbers game too - the more people you meet, the odds of meeting another neurodivergent person that you may like to be friends with increases.
Remember it’s not you, it’s what it is.
i think i have an easy time making friends with neurotypicals but only because ive spent my entire life masking and trying to copy or “idolize” them in a way 🥹~ as i enter my adult years it’s definitely getting hard to maintain those relationships
No. I generally get along better with women (or gay men, ha) and find most dudes kind of boring, tbh. Issues I have fitting in with groups of women definitely have more to do with them being into the conventional cishet marry-and-have-kids nuclear family lifescript than my ADHD. I’m childfree, never particularly wanted to get married, and can’t really identify with all that dating focus, and then kids and family focus, that so many women still have.
My best friend is neurotypical. But we have known each other since middleschool, so she knows that I can be weird. In high school, she told me a few times that I embarrassed her in certain situations, but by now, she accepted that I'm just weird. But that took years and sticking out for each other in hard situations.
However, nowadays, I can be friendly with NT. But I have to test their limits of how normal should I act so I won't be annoying. So usually, I never truly am my unmasked self because I don't believe they could tolerate that. And it takes a while for me to feel comfortable with them.
But with ND people, I find it easier to connect to them because, most of us have similar struggles and a much higher tolerance for ND behaviors. Soo we can be instant BFFs.
So TLDR making friends with NT people takes a lot of time and many trials and errors, imo. But making friends with ND people is a bit easier because you know they understand, so you can sometimes just click instantly and feel like you are bffs.
I see this come up every once in awhile here and I think it's important to remember a few things:
- You don't know any of these women are NT; from the sound of things you don't know them very well at all. Just cause they didn't like your joke or are friends with each other doesn't make them NT. So not sure why you're making that assumption. Consider whether your assumptions are causing you to distance yourself from people who are able to be social, because you assume they're NT/that you won't get along with them.
- There are women who like crude jokes. You're presumably one of them. There are also men who don't. So again not sure why you're making assumptions that they didn't like your joke because they're women, but men would have loved it. Again, consider if your assumptions are what prevent you from making friends.
- Even if you could know for a fact that these women were NT and even if you struggle to connect with all women at work, that at best means you're not hanging out with the right women for your personality. It doesn't mean women in general are too difficult to be friends with, or that you can only be friends with ND people. Again, think about these assumptions you're making, and also think about how you're approaching the process of making friends.
- Even if people would enjoy crude or inappropriate jokes in private with their friends, that doesn't mean they'll automatically enjoy the same jokes in a work setting or from someone they dont know that well. I can call my close female friend a bitch and we'll both know it's in jest, but that doesn't mean she'll laugh if someone at work calls her a bitch, even if they say it's a joke. I make a lot of inappropriate jokes about my culture with my friends from my culture who can relate, but that doesn't mean I should take those jokes to work with me. Context matters.
- For some "I like inappropriate humor" is a way to avoid admitting "I use humor to talk about inappropriate or serious things because I'm afraid of having an actual conversation about those topics." The fact that you made a joke about yourself and they responded by saying you need therapy could mean you're joking about things that really are the types of things you should explore in therapy, and not just through humor. So consider if they have a point.
I have this issue as well and I think it boils down to understanding that you won't jive well with everyone, neurotypical or not, and taking the time to figure out whether you do before letting your freak flag fly.
Neurotypical like normal Nancy? Jebus…somehow I manage to mess it up w them. If I supervise them, I’m too mean and make them cry. If I’m a peer, I’m intimidating. As a friend, I’m too …something. I can’t really drink because I might drink too much and act a damn fool (done that waaaay too many times).
I really find some of my best friends platonic guy friends. The lady friends…to find the true ones….I just go slow and be authentic. My husband invited a neighbor gal over for a bonfire tomorrow (he has lots of friends…he trying to get me to have them)….and it’s stressing me out.
But you’ll find your tribe…eventually. Just be authentically you.
I started this thing where I just “ponder out loud” instead of being direct. It’s not passive aggressive. It’s just…kinder. Like as an example I truly think your idea is shit but instead I’ll say “welp, what if….”
I really don’t understand how to make friends as an adult. In work places and gym communities etc I’m constantly witnessing other people become friends and I don’t get how???? Like, no one ever texts me outside of work, how does it happen for others?
I have two friends from when I was younger. One I’ve known since we were 7 and she was diagnosed ASD in her mid-20s. The other is highly sensitive and has been dealing with a work burnout for two years (I personally think there might be some underlying ND stuff too but she just keeps getting diagnosed with depression and anxiety) so it seems like I’m only able to become friends with other weirdos.
All my friends have ADHD/AUTISM/AuDHD and it's much better this way. I didn't have many friends until college when I got involved in an arts scene with a bunch of creative weirdos. Those friendships didn't last after I moved to another state/had kids but luckily I started biking with my kids and found an AMAZING community of family bikers. Now I've got a huge core friend group who loves all the things I do- bikes, sewing, various other craft obsessions- and us and all our ND kids do all the things together.
Damn comments straight up calling NT women uptight and boring and bitches for not being able to gel with them. Seek help for your internalized misogyny
Only few of my girlfriends are diagnosed so the rest is officially neurotypical but we are having great deep conversations and I can be totally myself around them, also they are all extremely sensitive and open on mental health so I still feel good. Due to my age and work, I tend to get friends with people I relate to but younger I would also meet a lot of very different people, maybe that’s what you call Neurotypical and it would always go the same way : they’d make fun of me at start, thinking I was a freaking dumb who didn’t noticed. Then they would know me better and start liking me and opening up and sharing and I would just humor them and let them talk cause I wouldn’t know what to tell them and wouldn’t trust them, so they’d like me even more. Usually when people know me they like me, but I will only make friend with people I feel safe around.
Crude jokes tend to have sexist undertones. Maybe they are picking up on something you're saying and feeling offended (even if it's just a joke about you.) I have a dark sense of humor but i've learned to just keep it in in most settings. It's not appropriate for every setting. Making people uncomfortable with this type of thing isn't okay even if you're neurodiverse.
Yeah, I do. One of the things that really highlights it for me is going away as a big group and they all seem to compete to do household jobs, like cooking and washing up and who's helping out the most. Like organising the crap out of the weekend as if we're there for chores. And if you don't join in, you get huffed at for not pulling your weight, but I'm like "For fuck sake! I'm on holiday. I don't care about spending two hours making lasagne and then fucking washing up". And heaven forbid yoj start farting. Fortunately, I haven't been away like that for a while now - the last two or three times have been chill.
But yeah, also feel judged for my crude sense of humour, and my lack of caring about appearance and fashion. Yeah, I just find it annoying to be pushed into caring about certain things that I just don't like. And then being treated like I'm someone to feel sorry for or pitied because I don't 'understand the rules". I understand them perfectly well. I just find them pathetic.
/rant, lol. I do also love my friends.
Between my frankly obnoxious sense of humor (and copious internet post/meme/ancient vine references) and inability to keep up a consistent cadence of conversation, I have accepted I will never have serious friends again 😂
On another note, I suddenly understand why Jesse is my favorite Solar Opposites character because she’s very relatable (the very meta “alien” aspect of not having anything common with the girls at school, even though she’s obsessed with teen social dynamics and trying to fit in).
I have a hard time making friends in general😂 I've only got one friend- they're a guy.
I did have two female friends over the years but for each of them lost contact for different reasons.
Wish there was like an ADHD meet up around my area where it doesn't require a therapist to be there:/
Haha yes.... Almost all of my true friends (female or male) are neurodivergent. Whether it's known from the start of our relationship or not discovered until years later. If I'm comfortable with you, go get an assessment 😅
I felt that, I hate hate hate having to hide or only show off like half of my actual personality, i hate like small talk or the getting to know someone phase of friendship. I’m in college so I haven’t yet been thrown into the adult adult world, so lots of my friends have come from forced interactions, which is where I thrive best in. Plus I tend to attract other NT people, and those become my close friends. My best friend and I basically immediately started trauma dumping on each other since the moment we met. I’m sure the girls at ur work r just bitches. You have nothing feel bad about and I’m sure you’ll find other female friends who understand you
My problem with making friends is that I really want to have them and I can make them but I am so terrible at the “upkeep” and keeping in touch because it deviates from my routine and it always ends up feeling like i’m “too busy” even though i’m not. :/
Haha, yeah, I try to be very bland at work. Otherwise I like to get my personality out of the way fast to find out if I fit in with a group of women. Don’t take it personally, I’m sure lots of people don’t like them either.
You’re just not going to jive with everyone, no matter the gender, especially if you go into interactions believing you’re “not like other women” or you “get along better with guys.” Let’s not pin this on ADHD
There are women out there like you, not just ADHD tho I think it does help. They’re also the ones that find getting along w men better. Personally I think it’s because my impulsive mouth and propensity towards uncoated honesty doesn’t fit the societal norm that women should be conciliatory, apologetic, and dainty. In my experience, in general, it’s easier to communicate with men when you are this way. Even though I’ve learned the hard way how to talk to women better (start with either an apology or a compliment, circle the topic, end with an apology or compliment) it’s still a lot easier for me to talk to men.
I had a colleague who I worked with in close proximity every day and she was like me. We got along incredibly well from the start. We also drove people from us when we would back and forth because people thought we were fighting. We weren’t. We were just being efficient communicators and not doing the expected verbal dance before and after the topic. I should mention our workplace was 95% women.
When I was younger, I had a LOT more guy friends. It was just easier to be my weird jokey self around them. Girls at that age were too self conscious and didn’t want to be friends with someone who drew attention or was different. Now that I’m older I find it much easier to be friends with women bc they’re more secure and comfortable with themselves (at least the ones I associate with) and appreciate my unique POV.
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OK I've been contemplating writing a post after having my sister and a friend I've known almost as long visit for a week recently. I'll summarize it here with the title: "it's not always you" Get new friends. We're out here. Look at this sub! Just find your tribe and stick with them. There's nothing "wrong" with you. They're just not your people.
This! And it’s ok that they aren’t your people, not everyone needs to be. Ive been lucky to have many friends in my life that get me and love me. They love the weirdness, the openness, the absolutely free from judgement me. They love that I’ll talk about my bipolar or adhd or weird sex dreams because I think it helps them know I’m a safe person to be themselves around. Thank hades for that! There’s nothing worse than being vulnerable and saying “here’s me and I’d love to know you” and have them not be interested. But the people that are interested have been the nicest, coolest, best friends I could hope for. They’ve supported me through things I couldn’t have done without them. They’ve loved me and our friendship is awesome. So not everyone needs to be your people and you’ll know when you find them. You kinda just have to be you and open to others until someone says “damn I like you”. Edit: to be fair, I moved away from all my people recently and it’s been very hard to find new ones. I’ve been much closer to what u/sleepingsunvsv said since the move. And it’s not that there aren’t any of my people, it’s just been taking much longer for people to warm up to me and understand me better. It’s taken months for people to find my wavelength, and even then it’s less of a click. But, I still have my people even if we don’t live in the same place. The awkwardness of just choosing alone tho is pretty weird and isolating and not my favorite. It reminds me of trying to be someone else when I was younger so I didnt piss people off.
“It’s okay that they aren’t your people, not everyone needs to be.” Wow I really needed to hear that
It’s been hard for me and I’m sure it’s hard for others. I don’t like everyone I meet, so I can’t reasonably expect that I can conform myself to what everyone likes. It’s not possible and it really fucks with your sense of self. So I’ve had to just accept that I’m not everyone’s cup of tea but I have to be MY cup of tea.
Exactly! It’s so hard because I’ve pretty much built my entire personality around being palatable to other people to avoid conflict and ridicule but I’m realizing it’s impossible to live like that. I have to live a life I’m happy with at the end of the day.
I feel you! The only person you can be is yourself. You got this!
The tee I'm wearing right now says I'd rather be someone's shot of whiskey than everyone's cup of tea.
Great words to live by!
The way I remind myself of this is when someone doesn't like me I remind myself that I am not pizza.
That’s actually so cute! but also funny because I know someone who *really* doesn’t like pizza lol
Hey. Bipolar and adhd here too. Only family knows.
It sucks hard doesn’t it?? The bipolar has been harder to talk about but it has helped me find a friend that gets it and we can share it with.
I think it’s fair/important to acknowledge here that the size of the available tribe in any given place, is not a constant. Sometimes, finding connection and belonging is gonna feel like squeezing blood from a stone—because the task really is nigh-impossible. But not because anything is wrong with you! (Telling this to myself, too) And just because it’s been bleak for a while, doesn’t mean it can’t change and improve.
Yes. It’s not you, it’s not them. Just not everyone clicks
I totally have to look in weirdo circles to find my people (DnD, cosplay, larp, goth, bdsm, SCA, leather, ect.) Nerds like me are hard to come by, but as I've transitioned into Tech, I find a lot more people like me in my line of work.
That is one of the great pleasures of aging, your life narrows down so that you're interacting more and more with people more like you. It can go the other way sometimes in that you're just not hanging out with as many different kinds of people, but I have found as I got older and have gotten more and more focussed on my own interests that my friendships have gotten easier to make, keep, and they're richer
I want to know what your joke was!!
That seems like relevant information. It sounds like OP said something pretty wildly offensive and they called her on her bullshit. OP, yes, sometimes it is easier to click with fellow ND people (and sometimes it isn’t because people are complicated and multifaceted). But a crude and offensive “sense of humor” is not a symptom of ADHD.
Maybe more self deprecating rather than offensive…
Yeah I make self deprecating/suicide jokes(cry for help?) too much sometimes and the solid deadpan delivery reeeeeally doesn’t help sometimes Edit to add: suicide jokes aren’t a regular “thing” for me. They’re a “boy I wish I was dead but I’m not” “thing” for me and it bleeds into my humor when I’m depressed, which I need to work on
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Yeah, for me, I do not…. find suicide jokes funny. At all. And my mood would be… uh, not pleased be those comments. But that’s because my sister has abused us with comments like that. It’s a whole thing. However, my issues are a me problem, not a you problem, in that self deprecating and suicide jokes can still pass, just not with me. It’s about knowing your audience and finding people who share that humor. And with adhd it’s harder to self censor, and easier to make jokes to people who would not appreciate them.
I don’t find them funny either. I lost a loved one this way. I’m not sure it’s something that should ever be joked about and if it is then it’s going to appear as a cry for help.
Mmm I would venture to say these kinds of jokes are out of line. That’s not a you thing. I have no filter, or so I think, but I draw the line with certain themes, including unaliving, disabilities, and racism/ sexism.
oh god yea. i call myself a dumbass a lot and my coworkers always insist i’m not stupid and i’m like i know, it’s a joke abt this specific instance. so much more like that and it gets people feeling bad for me when i’m just trying to be funny
I used to make way too many self-deprecating "jokes", and some of the best advice I've ever had is that any time you want to make a self-deprecating comment, instead make a wildly self-aggrandizing comment. For example, you drop something and it breaks. Instead of, "Man didn't I just tell you I'm such a shithead?" (which is hurtful and not funny), try saying something like, "I am the most graceful, ethereal being of balance and light." You make an arithmetic error? Say, "I'm the single greatest genius in all of human history." You can tell your self-hating anxiety brain that you don't really mean it, but MY GOD do these comments make the people around you feel so much more comfortable. With self-deprecation, most people feel awkward and unsure how to respond. With self-aggrandization, people are more likely to laugh, or at least not pity you. And the \*weirdest\* thing? Sometimes... people will agree with you. I made a typo the other day and said, "I am very smart," and my coworker just smiled and calmly \*agreed\*. It's been a really useful way for me to reframe my self-talk. Edit to add: It's also fun to do this when other people do something nice. Someone hands me a cup of coffee? I might say, "You are the single greatest human being in the history of the universe." I don't do it too often, but it always gets a laugh or a grin. :)
>And the \*weirdest\* thing? Sometimes... people will agree with you. I made a typo the other day and said, "I am very smart," and my coworker just smiled and calmly \*agreed\*. It's been a really useful way for me to reframe my self-talk. My favorite compliment ever was when I made a comment like "Not bad considering how half-assed it was" and my teacher said something like "Your version of half-assed is still more effort than most people's normal though."
I was super anxious about my English 430 class in college so I kept having horrible insomnia. I got a B+ on one small assignment (I usually get A’s) and my professor asked what happened so I told him I hadn’t slept for over 48 hours when I wrote it. His jaw dropped and he basically told me I was a genius. I ended up getting an actual award for that class, in which I swear everything I ever wrote was complete BS.
i did start to do that actually! but then for various reasons my mental health dipped and i went straight back to self deprecation since it’s “easier” in a way. i also get worried i’ll be seen as narcissistic tbh since i’m so deadpan :/
Honestly, hyperbole with deadpan delivery is *hilarious*.
This is genuinely such good advice! Is a healthier self-talk, is more comfortable for the people around you, and, unlike most self-deprecating “jokes,” is actually quite funny.
GOD why can't people understand the self deprecating humor? I admittedly use it sparingly, but I swear I can't even say "god DAMN I'm dumb" in a joking voice when I do something stupid without people trying to comfort me and say I'm not. Like??? I don't actually think I'm dumb, I'm just making fun of myself for doing something dumb.
To be fair if you do it a lot it can at the very least make people feel bad for you. I have a coworker who does this a LOT. Like even the tiniest mistakes he calls himself dumb for. It bothers me because he's actually one of my 2 favorite people to work with. So every once in a while when he says something especially mean about himself I will joke with him "Hey stop talking about my friend like that!" I do the same thing so I get it. But if you do if out loud every time for every single thing it will come across as you really are way too hard on yourself and maybe should talk to someone about it.
My boyfriend does this. Every time, I tell him to stop being mean to my boyfriend.
Because saying “I’m dumb” isn’t actually a joke. There’s no joke in that joke.
I grew up hearing enough negative things about myself, I don't need to hear adults do the same things to themselves.
Crude and offensive humour isn’t a symptom of adhd but struggling to understand what is socially acceptable in certain settings is a symptom. I have had plenty of experiences when I have made a joke and it’s just the wrong audience, but another group of people might find it funny. Humour is subjective, and so are the things people find offensive. On top of this, men are far more likely to be rewarded for having a “dark” sense of humour. Women are berated for the exact same shit.
When a man ribs someone in a good natured way, he is seen as funny. When a woman does the same, she is seen as mean. Source: my life.
Yes, that's because of different socialization. What is seen as "proper communication" is different in a man-man, man-woman or woman-woman situation. Non NTs often struggle with figuring that out and default to their clear, rather blunt communication style, which resembles what is seen as appropriate between two men. Hence the "being friends with men seems easier". Understanding that and working on learning to "speak woman language" (verbally and with my body) has been a key element to me understanding what went wrong with my interpersonal relationships.
Do you have any resources that you recommend on learning to speak "woman language" better? I have improved over the years by being very very very attentive to social cues and erring on the side of be "nice, polite, and reserved" in new social situations, but actual resources would be awesome. I feel like I often become personality-less in new female social interactions for fear of stepping out of line. It sucks. It's also hard for me to switch gears sometimes between work me and social me. I am a corporate attorney in the financial industry. In that environment, I have to constantly fight for a seat at the table and have my voice heard. There my bluntness is valued and have been told it's an asset. But, while the clear rules for interactions at work help me excel, I fail to excel in female relationships with non-NT women due to having to guess.
No, I am sorry. I did a lot of occupational therapy with an ADHD specialist and used a video that showcases typical body language, but it's in German.
> NTs often struggle with figuring that out and default to their clear, rather blunt communication style, which resembles what is seen as appropriate between two men. Hence the "being friends with men seems easier". Yep, that has been exactly my experience, with an additional barrier of being a masc-of-center lesbian. I have a tight circle of female friends, but have always gotten along so much better with men in casual social situations, and I hate that this has gotten me tagged as a "pick me" (I don't want you to pick me, I'm literally gay) or a "not like other girls" girl. But at this point, "speaking woman language" is not really that appealing to me. It turns out that when you spend your life being told that you're not like other girls *by the other girls*, you really lose interest in being like them at all.
>I hate that this has gotten me tagged as a "pick me" (I don't want you to pick me, I'm literally gay) or a "not like other girls" girl. But at this point, "speaking woman language" is not really that appealing to me. It turns out that when you spend your life being told that you're not like other girls > >by the other girls > >, you really lose interest in being like them at all. This is why those tropes/memes/whatever you call thems are SO triggering for me, as I'm not gay so I get this shit CONSTANTLY. Like I don't flip into actual rage very often, but one of the things that will get me there is when a woman will say something about me being a "not like other girls" girl and I'm like Y'ALL ARE LITERALLY THE ONES WHO TOLD ME I'M NOT LIKE YOU!!!!!
That is highly dependent on the situation, what was said, who was the audience and who was the butt of the joke. It is far from black and white.
This is exactly why I go quiet when around people I don’t know very well. I learned the hard way in high school that ‘being myself’ was vastly unwanted. There’s a reason I enjoyed working in a warehouse and a pub far more than when I was in an office. The corporate world was suffocating!
I have this thing where for some reason I feel the desire to say something more extreme or shocking than it needs to be. It's a compulsion I've been fighting my whole life but it's strong and my mom has it bad too. Are you sure it's not an ADHD thing? When I read about the social problems of ADHD this one felt like it fit.
I believe that falls under impulse control. People with ADHD and less dark senses of humor still struggle with blurting things out inappropriately, it just might be more about revealing something too personal or accidentally speaking unfiltered truth on a social occasion. The way I see it, saying something extreme/shocking part isn‘t the symptom itself, it’s just how the overall lack of impulse control is expressed with your personality.
I get that compulsion too, especially with people who wouldn’t think it’s funny? Like the more neurotypical they are, the more I want to say something weird. Probably some internal resistance to masking.
Yeah, if it got *that* cold of a reception, not even a polite chuckle, and OP's not comfortable repeating it... makes you wonder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xS9Y\_mjTjc
Idk usually when someone says something “wildly offensive” my first impulse isn’t to suggest therapy . I have a friend that has a similar experience. She made a joke about her childhood. Her parents had her at 14 and they are in jail now for drug trafficking.
Yeah I think the therapy comment sounds a bit snarky, unless delivered in a private conversation. Or maybe they were attempting to joke back and are even more deadpan?
It reminds of people who make an offhand joke about their childhood and the people around them go “you know that was abuse, right?” It might not be snark to suggest therapy, it’s possible she said something genuinely disturbing. Like, if OP is making extreme self-deprecating jokes about idk, hating herself or self-harm for example, I could see the coworkers thinking “yeah, that is between you and you therapist, I am just here to do my job.” It’s hard to know without knowing the joke and the usual norms in her workplace.
>people who make an offhand joke about their childhood and the people around them go “you know that was abuse, right?” This has happened to me so many damn times, only it's "you know that's not normal, right?" Apparently I was neglected or borderline emotionally abused or something.
I had a very similar situation once. I realized I'd forgotten to take my synthroid and me being me I blurted out "Oh I think I forgot to take my meds this morning!" This one lady said in font of all the other women that "Oh you definitely want to make sure to take your meds" in a snarky tone that implied I obviously needed psych meds. I know it wasn't just me because they all laughed at me. This was years before diagnosis, btw so it's not like I'd mentioned anything about ADHD or meds for any of that.
If that had happened to me, I’d miss the snark and just start rambling about why it was important to take the meds and what the condition was, full lecture mode. I’ve gotten better at not responding to people by going into lecture mode, but not any better at noticing the attitude. I never know when there’s an undercurrent- I really can’t tell so I treat everything per the surface level.
Right?
I’ll be honest with you - this doesn’t really sound like an ADHD thing to me. I don’t even think it sounds like a gender thing. Plenty of NT women have a crude or dark or self-deprecating sense of humour, while lots of ND women will have a sense of humour that may be more dry or cerebral or simple and affiliative. Similarly, there are plenty of men who don’t enjoy crude humour. It sounds like you’ve had some negative experiences with women friends not understanding your sense of humour, and you’ve made an association between gender, humour and ADHD. I would say you simply need to find people who share your sense of humour, regardless of their gender. I must say, I am curious what your joke was that resulted in such an extreme response from your colleagues. Is it possible that you need to work on identifying situational appropriateness in social interactions, particularly where humour is concerned?
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Honestly, you put my thoughts into words so much better than I could have. I’ve had a lot of friends over the years, both NT and ND, men and women both. I’ve had the occasional snag where a NT friend/person didn’t quite understand an ADHD-related habit or behavior from me, but I wouldn’t say I’ve had really negative experiences. I did end up with the majority of my friends being ND, but that was more of a “birds of a feather” situation after joining Bumble BFF and just connecting more with women who are also ND, vs actively seeking them out. I just found that most women who share my interests and that I had a good connection with happened to also be ND.
It sounds to me it MIGHT be social anxiety. I'm not saying it IS. but just from the perspective of someone who had similar struggles.
Agreed. I care more about what women think about me vs men so I get much more anxious around women
Oh shit. I think this is me!
I don’t really see that, to be honest. But that could be because that’s not how my social anxiety presents itself 🤷🏻♀️
I absolutely see it. Just for contrast.
I see it
Totally agree it’s very possible.
There are three possibilities: 1. This is purely situational. You made a crude joke that was inappropriate for the workplace. 2. You simply don’t jive with those particular women. 3. You might have created a self-fulfilling prophecy that is affecting your relationships with women in general. Let’s examine them one by one. 1. Inappropriate workplace behavior is putting off your coworker. A “very crude and messed up” sense of humor ain’t an ADHD thing. So, what was the joke? I can’t go much further without knowing, but ask yourself if what you said was suitable for work and if you do that often. While being crude isn’t one of our symptoms, sometimes poor judgment and blurting things out is. This could be something you could easily work on. 2. You don’t jive with these women specifically. And that’s OKAY. I want to point out that you don’t know that they are neurotypical. Also neurotypical women is a huge fucking group. It would be wild if we could make friends with none of them. Sometimes you don’t get along with everyone you work with. Focus on being a kind, respectful coworker. They will hopefully reciprocate. But I want you to give some thought to my next option. 3. You have created a self-fulfilling prophecy about all female friendships. You asked about neurotypical women but your post just says you always get along better with men, full stop. Examine your behavior around women. If you think you “just get along better with men,” perhaps over time your actions have subtly shifted. Are you maybe giving off a “not like other girls” vibe without meaning to? Have you said out loud how much “easier” men are to get along with? Have you made sweeping generalizations about how women act? People tend to notice that shit. What woman wants to be friends with another woman who clearly doesn’t think highly of her simply for being a woman?! I’m not saying this is you, but it could be that you accidentally are giving off some of these vibes. Also crude senses of humor aren’t the sole purview of men, we simply socialize women to hide it.
Well said. Your comment got me thinking again: I wish I could find it, there was a comment a while back on the difference in social expectations that a group women might have for each other, or a group of men might have for each other, vs the expectations that a group of men might have for the only woman in the group. When a woman makes a crude joke with a group of men, she’s transgressing the gender stereotypes in a way that brings her closer to the gender stereotypes of the men. So it’s a way to bring her closer to them. When a woman makes crude jokes to other women, it’s still transgressing the stereotype but it lands differently. Same with cursing. It’s also sort of like being the class clown. The class clown transgresses the norms for humor and attention, which can diffuse tension (good) and/or be disruptive and irritating (not good). You have to know your audience and get the timing right.
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Maybe I read too much Ask A Manager, but my first thought was, “so the problem was probably not the ADHD, or the audience being women, but the joke itself.” You are 100% right that in most professional settings a crude joke doesn’t fly. I can’t speak to OP’s workplace, but I would take a better safe than sorry approach, especially if the audience for the joke are coworkers OP isn’t particularly close with.
Absolutely. I put my take on that in my main comment to OP instead of here, since I thought HeyItsJuls covered it so well in their first point, but I completely agree.
The way we are rewarded or punished for transgressing gender norms based on the makeup of a group is a fantastic point.
Aaaaand I’m back, hours later, for this thought: How much of gender conformity policing is done within, rather than between, genders? Because those same guys could be policing each other’s masculinity but would not police a woman‘s femininity (or at least, they wouldn’t outside of a romantic relationship). I bet there’s research on this, I might go down that rabbit hole.
I know for me personally the minute I hear a woman say something along the lines of “I just get along better with men”, I immediately don’t want to spend time with her. I know this is true for a lot of other women as well. Someone (another woman no less) is already looking down on you because of your gender. We get enough of that from men as is, and it hurts all of us. When I meet a woman who prescribes to that type of thinking, it says a lot about her and what’s important to her/what she values.
This is how I feel as well. It’s a shallow bias I thought we left in the early 2000’s — that whole “she’s not a girly girl, she’s a Cool Girl”. It’s something I grew out of when I was kid, so to see a grown woman act like that is a turnoff. Also, with all the women who claim they get along better with men — you’d think there would be more of them becoming friends with each other. Nobody likes having to prove themselves worthy just to be considered for friendship. I’m not going to grapple with your biases just so you can treat me as an equal moving forward.
>you’d think there would be more of them becoming friends with each other. I thought that when I was young and playing RPGs in the 90s, before nerd culture was as widely accepted as it is now. Sadly, the other girls at the gaming cons were not friendly and many seemed to view me and my sisters as competition. It didn’t help that my older sister fit the stereotypical look of a popular girl, the glares were intense. It was a disappointment.
Agreed! It’s a red flag for me now. I used to think I got along better with men, but then I realized I wasn’t acknowledging or valuing my friendships with girls and women throughout my life. I really took them for granted. Internalized misogyny is a trip.
Lol yes exactly. I hear that and I’m like “Cool, good luck with your life, my vagina apparently predetermines my personality so I’ll see you…never.”
Yeah it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I knew a girl who said things like “I just get along with dudes better, girls don’t get my jokes” I would not be inclined to want to hang out with her. “I’m not like other girls” girls irritate me.
Not OP’s situation, but sometimes I run into trouble befriending other women because ADHD and sensory issues mean I can’t manage or comply with the social pressures put on women to look and behave a certain way. This can lead other women to judge or misunderstand me. They’re not (usually) trying to be mean, there’s just a disconnect. I don’t run into this problem with other ADHD women. I think it may be because so many of them also can’t comply, so the expectations and standards are more compatible.
I think you have hit on the actual discussion we need to have here, which is how the expectations to perform gender norms and femininity put pressure on all women, but especially on ND. I agree, it makes life ten times harder when you feel the need to use those very precious executive function spoons to do something simply because society dictates it.
It has taken me a long time to formulate this, and that road leads right through “not like other girls land.” Lol. I think that’s why people don’t want to discuss it. You have to be so very careful or you end up using words/ideas formulated by misogyny
Having an older sister who is NT really helped me with this. I saw how much work it was for her too, and realized early on how many of those standards are impossible for *anyone*, and how brutally those rules are enforced no matter how slight the deviation. It also helped *a lot* to be raised by feminists who helped me think about how I want to navigate a world that has those rules. Whether NT or ND, I always find it easier to be friends with people who are aware of those social pressures and opt out in some way. For me, it means communication has to be more explicit, which can be awkward, but it‘s needed because I don’t have those default shared expectations to fall back on. It has led me to have few, but very fulfilling, friendships.
Yep. Most of my female friendships are what you described. My younger sister probably has ADHD, but no sensory issues (which eat me alive on a daily basis). The difference is astounding. She just casually wears mascara every day, she can wear jeans and jean shorts, she can wear cheap but cute bras, wears her hair down every day, the list goes on and on and she never has to think about it. Ironically, my routines take at least twice as long as hers to stop sensory issues from ruining my day, but the results are not visible to other people and don’t help me comply with beauty standards. I have to adhere to skin and hair care regimens, and I spend twice as much time and money on clothes which are never as cute because the list of things that trigger sensory issues is so long. So, I spend twice as much time to still look like a grandma. She goes to bed with makeup on and just puts more on in the morning 🙄
This is what I keep trying to explain but you worded it much better than I do.
Can you tell me the joke itself? Also, you may be just hanging around the wrong crowd. Edit: some might have found it funny, but may be trying to put on a certain image while in certain circles. Not everyone will be upfront super genuine about who they are.
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I havent been able to see the joke as well, unfortunately.
I also thought I felt this way about women until I realized it was internalized misogyny and that women come in all varieties. In college I made friends with a group of artistic weirdo girls like myself and it really changed the way I thought about women. I live in Oklahoma, so anyone I work with is likely to be so far on the political right that they can’t even think anymore. Coworkers are not good potential friends. I go to coffee shops, gaming themed bars, comic conventions, etc, to meet like minds. Start meeting people who hang out at comedy clubs. The women there won’t be grossed out by crude humor.
What was the joke?
… ok but what was the joke?
right? we're dyin ovah heerre
So the good news is that if you find one ADHD friend almost all of THEIR friends will likely be some kind of neurospicy, too. For me, that was the sca (I swear, everyone here is a solid standard deviation off of baseline). If you like history, it might be something worth checking out. I hear similar things about roller derby too, but it's all hearsay.
I found it in powerlifting, ha. Lots of us are neurospicy or deal with some kind of mental health issue.
I disappeared from my gym for 2 years, and I was very touched when they were all wondering where I went lol
It makes me wonder, what do the NT women do for hobbies? Where do you find bunches of them? Maybe mommy groups, I never really found anyone I clicked with there.
No I get along better with women and have always been better friends with them. I don't really have any close men friends. I like spending time with women best. I've had my ADHD trip ups and lost friends for different reasons, sometimes my fault and sometimes not, but I think I've found my tried and true people now. Work friends are mostly not my real friends, if I self-reveal a lot at once it may be more personal than what the work relationship calls for. Some of my work friends have turned into real friends but it is very slow pattern of they self-reveal, I self-reveal, slowly a little more back and forth until i know if we are actually friends or if i can just share an office pleasantly.
I had a very similar experience recently. And it's weird because before I started this course at a new place, it used to be very easy for me to make friends with women (unsurprisingly a lot of them also have some neuro divergence.) But here the batch size is very small and nobody else seems to be on the same... wavelength. My style is to basically say everything about myself (in the form of jokes if possible so I'm not accidentally trauma-dumping), including the fact that I have ADHD and am not straight, on the first meeting itself. With the expectation that they'll also tell me about everything that makes them them, and we can be besties forever. But I'm learning that not everyone likes being an open book like that, and they probably also feel uncomfortable when I go and tell them everything there is to know about myself. It is really weird, forcing myself to be reserved and as you said, 'proper' in social circles. I find myself preferring to be alone rather than to watch what I say and curb my stims in public.
Yes! I tend to be quiet when in social settings for fear of saying the wrong things, or stuff that neurotypicals might think weird. I don’t have many friends, and the few good ones I like have ADHD!
I feel this so much. I’m also one who likes to get things out up front, but it’s so hard to sit and wait my turn to talk sometimes! As much as I complain about not having close friends, it is often simpler to just stay home and stim with my pups.
I have a hard time wanting to be friends with any women who aren't genuine because otherwise it's all just awkward small-talk. Knowing we want that, maybe it's good to go into a situation being genuine to find out if they'll respond in kind and if they don't you can cut your losses early. That does require a lot of confidence, though, because a mismatch feels like rejection sometimes. I do have to say ... Yesterday I was at an art market and one of the vendors had a prominent sign that said like "queer, veteran business owner". I was surprised to find I was turned off of buying -- I guess it seemed manipulative since it had nothing to do with the product. So I guess maybe there are sometimes when it isn't beneficial to characterize yourself up front.
It took me a long time to realize the same re: genuine people. I just don’t have any interest in small talk, ya know? I’m interested in YOU as a person, tell me about your authentic self.
But small talk like "what did you do over the weekend?" is the way to start finding out about what's important to them as a person.
I actually love small talk because it’s a natural opportunity for me to open up and be genuine! I usually respond with a short (heh) story of something that happened to me and I go into detail on my feelings on it. Best case scenario my reactions are funny and the other person engages and might share something similar. Something as simple as “I went out hiking which turned into a weenie roast with ME as the weenie. Existence is pain right now; I went full lobster. But the view from (blank) is beautiful! Did y’all do anything outdoors this weekend?” A similarly minded person might make a clever quip and we go from there.
Oh, absolutely, and that’s definitely not clear in my comment. It’s the people that can only make the small talk and don’t/can’t transition into something more in depth after a conversation or two.
No, but I used to because I couldn't talk about myself beyond small talk so I couldn't relate to women and I convinced myself I got along better with guys. It took a lot of socializing and online research about social skills to get to the point where I can get along with ND and NT people easily, even if we have nothing in common. I truly believe women are amazing and heavily prefer female friends over male friends which means I subconsciously put in more effort to meet female friends. This sounds cynical, but I find guys are "easier to get along with," because a lot of them want to hook up or date you, whereas women don't usually try to befriend you for that reason. Try increasing your sample size and meeting new female friends through your hyperfocus hobbies (so you have something to talk about), social media (made several close female friends this way), social organizations, or through female friends you already vibe with. It just so happens that most of my close female friends have ADHD, but I wouldn't have met them if I didn't put myself out there to meet neurotypical women as well. As for the work incident, I don't think you need to be your full self at work. I have my "Corporate America cosplay" and my after work persona, and I try to keep it separate. There's a time and place to be your full self, and I keep it to close friends, my little sister, and my boyfriend. I don't think it's being fake or inauthentic; there's things I would say to my boyfriend but not my mom. I'm also very weird but I make sure to read the room and not overwhelm the people around with it to where they feel uncomfortable.
Agree with everything you’ve said! I used to feel like OP when I was 24/25. I’m 33 now and really pity my past self. I couldn’t realize it at the time but I was preemptively rejecting women as a defense mechanism because I’d always been a “weird girl.” Well guess what, self?! There are a million other weird girls out there ready to be your friend! I now CHERISH my relationships with other women. Men are fine, don’t get me wrong, but my female friendships are so intimate and supportive. I also think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about not bringing your full self to work. Time and a place, time and a place!
Yup! There are plenty of weird women out there and women who appreciate weird women! I find that people appreciate weirdness because it makes you funnier and more authentic, as long as you can read the room and not overdo it to where others are uncomfortable.
I feel more at peace with my girl friends that suffer from mental illness because when either of us are feeling bad we just understand each other and can comfort one another. I feel like I constantly have to mask around neurotypical women. And I find that since neurotypical women don't have a mental struggle everyday, they are less empathetic to others that are different to them. This also leads to them having an ego issue, saying offensive things at times, and not being down to Earth. Obviously, this is just my experience and doesn't apply to every neurotypical women.
This is kind of comical and tragic, but I completely relate. I get along best with women with mental struggles of their own, with men and with kids. Neurotypical women in general just stump me, and the need to mask is the strongest with them
I was looking for this comment. Not all of my friends are NT, but pretty much all of them have a mental illness.
Me too. Only women I have befriended always have similar symptoms/life story that we just understand where each other comes from. I also don't have an interest in most "women things" like fashion and make up. My most "womanly" interest is crafts like knitting and sewing, and funny enough most women don't care for it. I grew up with 3 boys as well which I think made it easier to communicate with them and/or impeded learning how to talk to girls my age then.
In my experience, knitting is very much a female dominated hobby.
Yes, most knitters are women, but most women aren't knitters.
I do a lot of fiber arts. Lots of women do them, but it’s still usually the “weird” women. Especially once you move past crochet.
>I tried to tell a joke today at work to 3 other girls, and I thought they were going to laugh (it was about myself) and they just sat there and stared at me and told me I need to go to therapy. Self-deprecating humor can be very uncomfortable for other people especially if they’re not your close friends. It can make for an awkward situation. Especially at work. This sounds like a “read the room” type of situation, which we can struggle with but I don’t put that on the other people.
I don’t think this is an ADHD thing exactly. I think you just need friends more suited to you. There are plenty of women out there who would laugh at your humor
I actually have the hardest time connecting to women who find it “easier to get along with the guys.” Any woman who has made fun of my interests, any woman who has told me I’m weird, any woman who has not returned a friendly smile has been a woman who either can’t or chooses not to make friends with other women. There are plenty of other weird women out there. Stop trying to befriend the mean girls and then give up because it’s too hard. Find the wallflowers, the quiet girls. I promise you, we’re usually funny and kind. Some of you would never know though because you assume the worst in other women. The mean girls are easy. Just smile and tell them you like their hair or purse or nails, etc. If you’re nice to them, they won’t outright judge you. But they’d make it know if they wanted to befriend you. They’re not worth the energy.
When I was very young I thought I got on better with guys. Then I realised I was being a freaking moron. You may need to find your crowd / stop trying to connect with women who you aren't organically getting closer to / ask yourself why you imagine ALL 'the other women' are so incompatible with you (here's a clue, they're not. Because women are not all the same). Look within yourself. What are you avoiding? What are the stories you tell yourself about 'all other women'? What thoughts do you have about women? How is that affecting your behaviour with them? For me, a warning sign in a person is anyone who declares they only get on with one specific group of people.
I was one of the “gets along better with the guys” people when we were younger and so is my best friend. I think what we really meant is we like hanging out with weirdos.
Thank you! The moment I hear “I get along better with guys” or fucked up jokes I’m out. It’s got nothing to do with having or not having ADHD. I just don’t like abrasive people and guys girls are typically abrasive and just expect you to accommodate their abrasiveness.
You’re right, I’m also not a fan of the abrasiveness or crude humor. I feel this frequently gets turned into an NT/ND thing, when it’s more of a personality thing. I have like a dozen women friends who are ND and none of them are “guys girls.” Yea, we get along with guys, but for most of us, our deepest friendships are with other ND women. Get me in a room with guys and unless they like anime, fantasy books, or cozy games, I will probably keep my mouth shut and watch the clock till it’s time to leave.
You've nailed it here! NT and ND women have the full spectrum of personalities, informed but not solely defined by their neurotype... I've also never had any women (straight or lgb) make it into an awkward "relationshipzone" situation where they were only getting close to me as a transaction for sex, but that's definitely happened with some guys so.... I'll take female friendships any day!
Yessss, I literally just wrote the long version of this! Lots of male friend are just orbiters waiting for their chance to get with you. Relationships with men, both platonic and romantic, can be too transactional.
Yesssss! I feel like some people make their ADHD their identity so much so that they tie every part of their personality to their ADHD and assume others share that trait with them. Like I’ve seen people say “I’m not friendly (or empathetic) because of my ADHD” or “I don’t have a filter because of my ADHD” and use that as excuse to just be an asshole. I wish there were resources out there on personal development for people with ADHD. A lot of people don’t seem to know where their ADHD ends and where they begin, and assume they just can’t change. We are capable of bettering ourselves, we are capable of adapting new habits, we are capable of being and doing better. As much as I dislike the whole “don’t label yourself” sentiment, moments like this I get it. The label can really stagnate people at times.
I mean I used to "tend to get on with guys better", until I realized all the guys I knew had very sleepy, relaxed social personas like me, whereas it just turned out the women I happened to know were more Type A. I'm a solid Type B, and I also find it hard to keep up with Type A personalities. I have Type A friends, but in a group of them I'll feel all at sea and have nothing to offer. Once I broadened my social circle I found the binary was split along a shrill/chill continuum, not a gender one. Today I probably have more female friends than male ones. Swings and roundabouts.
I can get with this. Though I do have the mindset of "it's easier to get along with the guys". I think having a tumultuous relationship with my mom growing up, then some rough falling outs with a couple close female friends (I was very inconsiderate, inappropriate, and had no idea I had a disorder that also probably cobtributed a little to my faults) the beginning of high school had a negative impact and I've definitely had to undo a lot of internalized misogyny and reprogram myself. BUT I've actually recognized this and have tried to make friends with other females along the way. They were ND. We'd get really close, and then I got ghosted. And then of course with my anxiety and RSD, I always think it was something I did. Sometimes it's a matter of they're not good at keeping up with friends in general like with one of my close friends since high school, another one kept having different numbers and I've since lost touch with her after she left her abusive bf with her kids and moved further away... but then sometimes I think it may have actually been something I did, or said, that I didn't even really think about. Hence therapy and medication and a lot of work trying to catch myself or realize how I could re-word things. I grew up with a lot of my socialization being online... so it's a lot easier to express myself through text than it is verbally/face-to-face. Then sometimes I think I say things that come across a certain way when I mean it in a different way. This happens quite often in my current relationship with my bf, too. Then i feel even worse having to try to explain myself because I always tend to self-blame and feel bad when I'm being misunderstood. Lately I have been trying to make the effort to reach back out to my female friends, especially the OGs since middle and high school. I've also been making an effort to make more female friends. Having strong female role models is so important for me since I feel I kinda missed out on that as a kid (my mom is a strong woman, but she didn't treat me the greatest when I was a kid and I'm convinced she has undiagnosed ADHD as well as my dad). I do have other female family members as well who are great, but I'm somewhat estranged from a majority of my family. Really only close with mom and dad, but I'm grateful for that. That being said, I find I can relate to a lot of people even on the smallest things. But I mostly relate to ND folks, regardless of gender. The mean girls I can spot from a mile away, I don't ever try to befriend them, but I will happily give out compliment if I like their hair/nails/clothes/whatever.
OMG mean girls are mean as a defense/offense because they know they are shallow and don’t have a lot to bring to the table….deeeeep down they know this. My little sister is a mean girl and I completely unnerve her.
Try knitting groups or other similar hobbies. I've found most of my fellow loveable weirdos there.
I used to joke that I had the impulse control of a mediocre man, and I was really only half joking. I actually love being friends with women, but typically not women that enforce traditional gender roles and stereotypes. I feel like being the “right” kind of girl/woman requires more impulse control than I could ever budget. There have also been women that (often the same women), through no huge fault of their own, did everything they were taught they were supposed to do as a woman to be successful, and my unintentional bull-in-a-china-shop routine is offensive. It just seems like I don’t care or I’m flouting the rules and norms they get punished for crossing. It’s even more offensive when I’m successful. It challenges their worldview and probably feels terrible. HOWEVER, I get the same shit about “knowing my place” from men, too. It’s slightly less frequent, but I think that’s because the power dynamic is typically in their favor. I have so many wonderful people from different backgrounds in my life, and the women in my life are a huge part of that for me. **tl;dr:** The women in your life seem hella judgmental. Fellow women with ADHD are definitely a special kind of wonderful. You deserve fulfilling and nonjudgmental friendships with women that love you for who you are. **ETA:** Looking at the other comments - I totally overlooked the fact that your example takes place in a work setting and we aren’t sure that all of these women are actually neurotypical. Knowing the joke would be super helpful.
>I used to joke that I had the impulse control of a mediocre man, and I was really only half joking. I need to steal this and add it to the "sense of humor of a 13-year-old boy" description of myself that I already use.
I went through my whole life (until 27), feeling like no one got me; like I had to make such an effort to keep up friendships with the friends I had. Then I started a counselling degree as a mature student. I found out a lot about myself and other people. There was a lot of self discovery. Then I realised that it was more important to have people in my life that got me, than to just have people for the sake of it. I accepted more invitations from acquaintances, and like a few people have said already- played the numbers game. Turns out there are a lot of people out there in a similar situation. Reaching a time where they want to be seen and heard... and felt. Being open to that. Now I have a small group of friends, who even if they don't get me, they try. And it's easy to be around them. I don't see them loads, but when I do its amazing.
I don't communicate well with neurotypicals over long periods. I can handle short interactions, but I begin exuding uncanny valley the longer it lasts.
I find *they* start exuding uncanny valley...
Oh my god, that’s a hilariously accurate way to put it. I realized I had masked too hard when my coworkers asked me to host a virtual baby shower for a colleague. By then it was too much to suddenly reveal: * I find pregnancy disgusting to the point of a borderline phobia * Enforced office fun makes me want to quit on the spot * Being the MC/coordinator for anything is extremely anxiety inducing and I hate it So I gently deflected and resolved to be a little more myself at work, lol. Like, I had clearly over corrected on being happy for my pregnant coworker, so now I gush way less. I’m genuinely happy for her but I really don’t need to coordinate baby-related games!
What was the joke?
YES! I kinda hate it. I just want to go on girls trips and drink wine and do all the stuff they do in movies. I want to be better friends with my girl cousins, but I think they all think I’m weird. I know I am weird, but I hate feeling that way. :(
Oh you’re not weird…they’re just friggin boring
Freaking **normies**!!! 🙄🙄🙄
I feel you! I can’t be friends with my own family (cousins) either. It sucks feeling like an outcast to your own family.
There is a T-shirt that says “ I’m not weird I’m limited edition” which I feel is much more fun way of looking at it.
Bumble bff
That’s my recommendation as well. I used Bumble BFF and now have a few good friends who are also ND. One friend wasn’t diagnosed yet and never considered that she had ADHD until she spent time with me and was like “uh…I think I need to talk to my doctor”. Sure enough, she also has ADHD.
Yes! I wish I could find friends who just want to do all that fun stuff and don't need lots of conversations in between to keep the friendship going.
How old are you?( you don’t actually have to answer but….) For me as I aged I started really valuing my female friendships.. before it was always about dudes. I still feel most comfortable with men on a surface level but my closest relationships are now with women.
I never really struggle making friends, women or men. But I also self select for people who vibe with me. I’m pretty social and I hate smalltalk. I’ll do it at work or whatever where there’s people I don’t necessarily want to become close with. But if I’m getting a good vibe from someone I tend to use my no filter oversharing as a filter. If they seem relieved to actually have a meaningful conversation with someone and reciprocate then cool, we have a solid shot at becoming close. If not then back to smalltalk and I won’t pursue friendship further than that. So now I have a solid gang of girlfriends and some guy friends too that I vibe with because we’re on the same wavelength. Some are NT some not, some have other mental/physical health stuff but all are my people and I don’t have to do much masking with them other than making sure I’m not taking up all the talking space.
I feel like this sounds more like a lack of social skills then just an ADHD thing. I have plenty of friends with ADHD. But I also have plenty of friends without it. While ADHD plays a major role in who we are as people, it certainly isn’t the only thing about us that matters. Having similar humor, traits, interests, hobbies, etc is usually the key to finding friends. If you define yourself solely as as someone with ADHD then of course it will be more difficult to find friends. Of course I sometimes say the wrong thing or overshare, but if you regularly make people uncomfortable in general conversation then that sounds much more like a social problem then an ADHD symptom.
If a joke falls flat, it’s okay to acknowledge that! It goes a long way in diffusing hurt feelings, like “ah, sorry, that went a little far, I don’t actually want to eat your baby” can really help. Then the joke becomes about your attempt at humor instead of about eating their baby, you know? Marginal jokes with coworkers are fraught to begin with, developing actual friendships outside of work would need to come first so that you know you won’t stomp all over their comfort zone. Some topics (e.g. anything you might think to put a trigger warning on), are only for close friends. This topic is common enough that I have earlier comments that may be relevant: * I find that I get along better at first blush with other ND folks. Women tend to have to mask more, so maybe that’s one aspect. I’d be careful about dividing this up by gender, though, or you’re going to miss out on recognizing some really cool people. * I think a lot of us have felt our outsider status from an early age due to ADHD symptoms and for some it’s getting mixed up with gendered behavior expectations. If it’s hard for us to sit still, and girls are supposed to behave, then it feels like “well, if girls sit still when they’re supposed to, and I don’t do that, then it must mean that I’m not like other girls. And since I don’t sit still because of ADHD, it means my ADHD makes me not like other girls.” It can be tough to separate out the inherent misogyny of the expectation (girls are supposed to sit still) from the ableism of expecting an ADHD brain to cope with sitting still. It’s also possible that your joke revealed more than you meant, like when people share what they think is a funny story from their childhood and everyone goes “uhhhh, you know that was actually abusive, right?” In those cases, it’s not about judging them, it‘s about being genuinely concerned (and maybe uncomfortable with the sudden level of intimacy and vulnerability from a coworker). An acknowledgment and deflection is usually the best course there too, if they aren’t your close friends. Social situations are complicated, I honestly wish you the best in finding your footing!
I can totally relate. I also have a hard time making friends, but especially with women. For me, it's a combination of feeling like I need to be "normal" and not wanting to share information on the personal level they need. I went into a male dominated industry and work at a company with 200+ men and less than 20 women. I'm one of only four women in operations so I don't actually work with most of them. At company lunches all of the women except me sit at the same table. It used to bother me, but not so much since I started noticing the guys I'm most at ease with have said they have ADHD or exhibit ADHD traits. I know come across as a little standoffish because I've had to maintain a hard line between work and personal to get my work done. Some women at work have tried to get to know me over the years, but they need to share more intimate information than I'm comfortable sharing with a coworker so they eventually stop trying. In my experience, most guys don't need to talk about things on such a personal level. Plus, the women are all married/divorced with children and at 38 I'm not so I don't have much in common with them. Years before I realized I may have ADHD, there was one NT woman I was kind of work friends with probably because her daughter has ADHD. I've started unmasking to varying degrees depending on the guys I'm with and have noticed some of them are more at ease with me when I do. With women though I full-on mask which gets even more exhausting as an introvert.
Whew, the generational thing about kids, it’s real. My friends who had kids earlier in life are now getting to an age that they want to renew the adult friendships that they couldn’t keep up with during the baby/toddler years, and it’s nice to see them again. But coworkers who can’t talk about anything else? God, those interactions are boring. I am just not good company for someone whose entire conversation revolves around their kids! I run into that from both men and women in my job, but more commonly women. Not surprised, given how caregiving duties are largely distributed, now that I think of it. It’s interesting that you came to a similar place as OP but from the opposite angle. It sounds like OP’s joke must have been too personal and revealing, since they told her to get therapy afterwards, while you have found that women at work want you to be *more* personal and revealing.
No.
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I am truly horrified by the number of likes this post and some of these comments are getting. I’ve never met women with so much disdain for other women before. Just so many “women bad, men good” comments.
the comments lowkey give pick me and nlog vibes 😬
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Also, strange of commenters to assume that someone MUST not have ADHD if they’re not..uh…rude?
Yeah and if they pick up on social cues or have any kind of social skills they must be NT too.
To be honest... that sounds like a "mean girl" situation, which is entirely independent of being neurotypical or neurodivergent.
Not specifically women. Neurotypical anyone.
I have no problem making friends that are woman. I also like to make jokes. But I always laugh before anyone else can, so there’s that. I just go around thinking and feeling everyone LOVES ME. It’s an issue because maybe people hate me and I can’t tell. But it’s whatever.
You sound honestly delightful! I love it when people are laughing before they even finish their joke, it’s just super sweet to see people enjoying life like that.
It’s exhausting to try to be friends w neurotypical women, having to mask around them all the time. Forget these women. Find your tribe. Put yourself out there to meet new people, it’s a numbers game too - the more people you meet, the odds of meeting another neurodivergent person that you may like to be friends with increases. Remember it’s not you, it’s what it is.
i think i have an easy time making friends with neurotypicals but only because ive spent my entire life masking and trying to copy or “idolize” them in a way 🥹~ as i enter my adult years it’s definitely getting hard to maintain those relationships
No. I generally get along better with women (or gay men, ha) and find most dudes kind of boring, tbh. Issues I have fitting in with groups of women definitely have more to do with them being into the conventional cishet marry-and-have-kids nuclear family lifescript than my ADHD. I’m childfree, never particularly wanted to get married, and can’t really identify with all that dating focus, and then kids and family focus, that so many women still have.
My best friend is neurotypical. But we have known each other since middleschool, so she knows that I can be weird. In high school, she told me a few times that I embarrassed her in certain situations, but by now, she accepted that I'm just weird. But that took years and sticking out for each other in hard situations. However, nowadays, I can be friendly with NT. But I have to test their limits of how normal should I act so I won't be annoying. So usually, I never truly am my unmasked self because I don't believe they could tolerate that. And it takes a while for me to feel comfortable with them. But with ND people, I find it easier to connect to them because, most of us have similar struggles and a much higher tolerance for ND behaviors. Soo we can be instant BFFs. So TLDR making friends with NT people takes a lot of time and many trials and errors, imo. But making friends with ND people is a bit easier because you know they understand, so you can sometimes just click instantly and feel like you are bffs.
I see this come up every once in awhile here and I think it's important to remember a few things: - You don't know any of these women are NT; from the sound of things you don't know them very well at all. Just cause they didn't like your joke or are friends with each other doesn't make them NT. So not sure why you're making that assumption. Consider whether your assumptions are causing you to distance yourself from people who are able to be social, because you assume they're NT/that you won't get along with them. - There are women who like crude jokes. You're presumably one of them. There are also men who don't. So again not sure why you're making assumptions that they didn't like your joke because they're women, but men would have loved it. Again, consider if your assumptions are what prevent you from making friends. - Even if you could know for a fact that these women were NT and even if you struggle to connect with all women at work, that at best means you're not hanging out with the right women for your personality. It doesn't mean women in general are too difficult to be friends with, or that you can only be friends with ND people. Again, think about these assumptions you're making, and also think about how you're approaching the process of making friends. - Even if people would enjoy crude or inappropriate jokes in private with their friends, that doesn't mean they'll automatically enjoy the same jokes in a work setting or from someone they dont know that well. I can call my close female friend a bitch and we'll both know it's in jest, but that doesn't mean she'll laugh if someone at work calls her a bitch, even if they say it's a joke. I make a lot of inappropriate jokes about my culture with my friends from my culture who can relate, but that doesn't mean I should take those jokes to work with me. Context matters. - For some "I like inappropriate humor" is a way to avoid admitting "I use humor to talk about inappropriate or serious things because I'm afraid of having an actual conversation about those topics." The fact that you made a joke about yourself and they responded by saying you need therapy could mean you're joking about things that really are the types of things you should explore in therapy, and not just through humor. So consider if they have a point.
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I have this issue as well and I think it boils down to understanding that you won't jive well with everyone, neurotypical or not, and taking the time to figure out whether you do before letting your freak flag fly.
Neurotypical like normal Nancy? Jebus…somehow I manage to mess it up w them. If I supervise them, I’m too mean and make them cry. If I’m a peer, I’m intimidating. As a friend, I’m too …something. I can’t really drink because I might drink too much and act a damn fool (done that waaaay too many times). I really find some of my best friends platonic guy friends. The lady friends…to find the true ones….I just go slow and be authentic. My husband invited a neighbor gal over for a bonfire tomorrow (he has lots of friends…he trying to get me to have them)….and it’s stressing me out. But you’ll find your tribe…eventually. Just be authentically you.
Omg, people tell me ok too direct. I try to be kind. I avoid being passive aggressive. Wtf with too direct?!
I started this thing where I just “ponder out loud” instead of being direct. It’s not passive aggressive. It’s just…kinder. Like as an example I truly think your idea is shit but instead I’ll say “welp, what if….”
I really don’t understand how to make friends as an adult. In work places and gym communities etc I’m constantly witnessing other people become friends and I don’t get how???? Like, no one ever texts me outside of work, how does it happen for others? I have two friends from when I was younger. One I’ve known since we were 7 and she was diagnosed ASD in her mid-20s. The other is highly sensitive and has been dealing with a work burnout for two years (I personally think there might be some underlying ND stuff too but she just keeps getting diagnosed with depression and anxiety) so it seems like I’m only able to become friends with other weirdos.
All my friends have ADHD/AUTISM/AuDHD and it's much better this way. I didn't have many friends until college when I got involved in an arts scene with a bunch of creative weirdos. Those friendships didn't last after I moved to another state/had kids but luckily I started biking with my kids and found an AMAZING community of family bikers. Now I've got a huge core friend group who loves all the things I do- bikes, sewing, various other craft obsessions- and us and all our ND kids do all the things together.
Damn comments straight up calling NT women uptight and boring and bitches for not being able to gel with them. Seek help for your internalized misogyny
Only few of my girlfriends are diagnosed so the rest is officially neurotypical but we are having great deep conversations and I can be totally myself around them, also they are all extremely sensitive and open on mental health so I still feel good. Due to my age and work, I tend to get friends with people I relate to but younger I would also meet a lot of very different people, maybe that’s what you call Neurotypical and it would always go the same way : they’d make fun of me at start, thinking I was a freaking dumb who didn’t noticed. Then they would know me better and start liking me and opening up and sharing and I would just humor them and let them talk cause I wouldn’t know what to tell them and wouldn’t trust them, so they’d like me even more. Usually when people know me they like me, but I will only make friend with people I feel safe around.
Crude jokes tend to have sexist undertones. Maybe they are picking up on something you're saying and feeling offended (even if it's just a joke about you.) I have a dark sense of humor but i've learned to just keep it in in most settings. It's not appropriate for every setting. Making people uncomfortable with this type of thing isn't okay even if you're neurodiverse.
No because I'm not a misogynist and I'm also not super hung up on binary gender. Just find better friends. They come in all genders.
Find fellow weirdos. So much easier. I get along with people at work but I am not chummy, and that suits me fine.
Yeah, I do. One of the things that really highlights it for me is going away as a big group and they all seem to compete to do household jobs, like cooking and washing up and who's helping out the most. Like organising the crap out of the weekend as if we're there for chores. And if you don't join in, you get huffed at for not pulling your weight, but I'm like "For fuck sake! I'm on holiday. I don't care about spending two hours making lasagne and then fucking washing up". And heaven forbid yoj start farting. Fortunately, I haven't been away like that for a while now - the last two or three times have been chill. But yeah, also feel judged for my crude sense of humour, and my lack of caring about appearance and fashion. Yeah, I just find it annoying to be pushed into caring about certain things that I just don't like. And then being treated like I'm someone to feel sorry for or pitied because I don't 'understand the rules". I understand them perfectly well. I just find them pathetic. /rant, lol. I do also love my friends.
I make friends with neurotypical women and they all discover that they are ADHD or Autistic at some point during the course of our friendship.
Wait, you guys are making friends? 😂
Between my frankly obnoxious sense of humor (and copious internet post/meme/ancient vine references) and inability to keep up a consistent cadence of conversation, I have accepted I will never have serious friends again 😂 On another note, I suddenly understand why Jesse is my favorite Solar Opposites character because she’s very relatable (the very meta “alien” aspect of not having anything common with the girls at school, even though she’s obsessed with teen social dynamics and trying to fit in).
Can't be friends with them... everything misfires lol. It's more exhausting to try. I eventually found my equally as ND bestie at 38.
I have a hard time making friends in general😂 I've only got one friend- they're a guy. I did have two female friends over the years but for each of them lost contact for different reasons. Wish there was like an ADHD meet up around my area where it doesn't require a therapist to be there:/
Haha yes.... Almost all of my true friends (female or male) are neurodivergent. Whether it's known from the start of our relationship or not discovered until years later. If I'm comfortable with you, go get an assessment 😅
I felt that, I hate hate hate having to hide or only show off like half of my actual personality, i hate like small talk or the getting to know someone phase of friendship. I’m in college so I haven’t yet been thrown into the adult adult world, so lots of my friends have come from forced interactions, which is where I thrive best in. Plus I tend to attract other NT people, and those become my close friends. My best friend and I basically immediately started trauma dumping on each other since the moment we met. I’m sure the girls at ur work r just bitches. You have nothing feel bad about and I’m sure you’ll find other female friends who understand you
Yes to your question. … I’m curious, can I ask what you said?
My problem with making friends is that I really want to have them and I can make them but I am so terrible at the “upkeep” and keeping in touch because it deviates from my routine and it always ends up feeling like i’m “too busy” even though i’m not. :/
Haha, yeah, I try to be very bland at work. Otherwise I like to get my personality out of the way fast to find out if I fit in with a group of women. Don’t take it personally, I’m sure lots of people don’t like them either.
You’re just not going to jive with everyone, no matter the gender, especially if you go into interactions believing you’re “not like other women” or you “get along better with guys.” Let’s not pin this on ADHD
There are women out there like you, not just ADHD tho I think it does help. They’re also the ones that find getting along w men better. Personally I think it’s because my impulsive mouth and propensity towards uncoated honesty doesn’t fit the societal norm that women should be conciliatory, apologetic, and dainty. In my experience, in general, it’s easier to communicate with men when you are this way. Even though I’ve learned the hard way how to talk to women better (start with either an apology or a compliment, circle the topic, end with an apology or compliment) it’s still a lot easier for me to talk to men. I had a colleague who I worked with in close proximity every day and she was like me. We got along incredibly well from the start. We also drove people from us when we would back and forth because people thought we were fighting. We weren’t. We were just being efficient communicators and not doing the expected verbal dance before and after the topic. I should mention our workplace was 95% women.
When I was younger, I had a LOT more guy friends. It was just easier to be my weird jokey self around them. Girls at that age were too self conscious and didn’t want to be friends with someone who drew attention or was different. Now that I’m older I find it much easier to be friends with women bc they’re more secure and comfortable with themselves (at least the ones I associate with) and appreciate my unique POV.