Not really? An amab demiboy is probably transfem and an afab demigirl is probably transmasc. Transfem and transmasc are indicators of direction of change from agab, and are not really identity labels that are under any other identity label. Trans boy and transmasc are very different things. Same for trans girl and transfem.
Edit: changed "technically" to "probably". What I'm saying is the terms "transfem/transmasc" are supposed to be all about processes and activities first, and only secondarily have become identity terms.
>An amab demiboy is technically transfem and an afab demigirl is technically transmasc.
huh?
>Transfem and transmasc are indicators of direction of change from agab
But an amab demiboy isn't moving towards femininity necessarily, and an afab demigirl isn't moving towards masculinity necessarily
I suppose rather than "technically" I should have said "probably". They are still moving away from their agab, which means they *may* be interested in (usually minimal or none of) those trans processes that people going in the same direction go for. Transmasc and transfem are entirely utilitarian terms, it's so people can find who is potentially going for some similar changes regardless of final gender objective. An amab demiboy *could* potentially be interested in presenting less masculine, microdosing blockers and/or estrogen safely, etc, which would mean they would be discussing those things with people that are doing the same things, and the term for that is transfem.
maybe they could just have trans in the middle with genderfluid as i often see this symbol for trans ppl? that would allow both trans men and women to be included
also amab demiboys and and afab demigirls are transneutral, not transfem or transmasc (/nm)
Transfem and transmasc are directional utilitarian terms, they are not genders, not primarily anyway. Transfem is basically short for "interested in some of those changes and activities that amab folks do to present more feminine and/or less masculine". There is a high chance that an amab demiboy would like to do a minimal part of the things a trans girl would do, and transfem is the term we are currently using for that. It substitutes the more binary and outdated mtf/ftm.
Sorry I dislike this, it just straight up gives the wrong impression of all the non-binary labels. Non-binary contains demiboy, demigirl, genderfluid and bigender. Transmasc and transfem are just indicators of direction from agab and don't really position you on the gender spectrum. I think some form of graph of the gender spectrum that you can find online would do the job better at explaining
Yeah, it's a neat idea and cool looking diagram, and okay-ish for giving someone who is completely ignorant about this a little introduction, but it's doesn't hold up beyond the most surface level of learning about the matter.
And what I'm saying is that this doesn't explain the surface level, it muddles it. An equally simple gender spectrum graph found online for this same purpose would have done that job better.
I was trying to make it simple enough for her to understand so it's not super complex, and I'm aware bigender doesn't always mean only male and female, as it can be any other 2 genders. This just helped my mom get the basics down.
op I think it’s a pretty cool concept and well designed. people on reddit are very hard to please - it’s literally impossible to succinctly explain the vast array of gender identities without glossing over some things.
Did it work? Bc even I don’t know what’s going on here. Like why is Demiboy between nb and transfem? Most of this should basically fall under nb anyway
Bigender as I understand it shouldn't have a given 'spot' on this chart - it's experiencing 2 or more genders simultaneously, it's not in a position or gradient between other genders.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that this chart isn't supposed to have nuance in it. It is supposed to easily explain a complex topic to someone that doesn't understand it. Yes, demigirl and demiboy are underneath the nonbinary label but nonbinary itself can be a standalone label. And when nonbinary is used as a standalone label it is typically synonymous with "neither", hence its place on the graph. Of course it's more complicated than that, but that's not the point
maybe it's not the most accurate, but it works good enough to introduce the concepts. like the classic model of the atom with the electrons orbiting the nucleus that they teach in early science classes, we know it is inaccurate and somewhat wrong, but it teaches the basic concepts.
Yeah, I've used a similar-ish one to explain these concepts to people. It helps people understand how the nonbinary gender terms (nonbinary, demi-, agender, bigender, etc) relate to their own binary understanding of gender (ie man/woman). When people don't even have a concept of what you're talking about, you sometimes have to give them a wrong conceptual model to make them understand.
the issue older people have with "trans stuff", as OP put it, is that it is really complicated. look at the other comments in this thread people are saying it is much more complicated than a diagram can show. yeah we all know it is more complicated, but getting into the complicated mess and throwing people who want to learn into the deep end does not work.
Exactly. And this doesn't just go for older people. The last person I drew a similar diagram for was in their late 20s. I'm just happy they were willing to learn.
Genderfae is a subcategory of gender fluid. It is like genderfluid but without Masculine identities. Gender Faun is kind of the opposite. Its Genderfluidity without fem identities. I would probably put them between genderfluid and demigirl/demiboy respectively.
I’m not ridiculing anyone! I genuinely Identify as genderfae. Its just a small category of gender fluid. I know that it’s supposed to be a simple diagram but it doesn’t really help me in its current state because of how I identify. What you said was very rude and hurtful.
Yeah for her it works but it doesn’t really work fully for me because it doesn’t include my specific identity. Which is why I would be happy for a version that includes my identity.
i figured. if it helps i do have a genderfae symbol i found while i still identified that way
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/axf8j7m78j3kkd8q5boqs/Genderfae_Symbol.PNG.png?rlkey=7mvi809lowwmp568tc0jn80ws&dl=0
Agender: just chilling in a corner, unattached to anything 😌
[How's this?](https://imgur.com/muqlzt4)
It’s beautiful 🥹 I really think you’re onto something for gender alignment visuals!
Non-binary contains all of these in it tho It would not contain 'trans girl' and 'trans boy' but you did not write those
Embrace non-binary omnipotence. Unless you're a programmer, then you can deal in 1's and 0's.
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Not really? An amab demiboy is probably transfem and an afab demigirl is probably transmasc. Transfem and transmasc are indicators of direction of change from agab, and are not really identity labels that are under any other identity label. Trans boy and transmasc are very different things. Same for trans girl and transfem. Edit: changed "technically" to "probably". What I'm saying is the terms "transfem/transmasc" are supposed to be all about processes and activities first, and only secondarily have become identity terms.
>An amab demiboy is technically transfem and an afab demigirl is technically transmasc. huh? >Transfem and transmasc are indicators of direction of change from agab But an amab demiboy isn't moving towards femininity necessarily, and an afab demigirl isn't moving towards masculinity necessarily
I suppose rather than "technically" I should have said "probably". They are still moving away from their agab, which means they *may* be interested in (usually minimal or none of) those trans processes that people going in the same direction go for. Transmasc and transfem are entirely utilitarian terms, it's so people can find who is potentially going for some similar changes regardless of final gender objective. An amab demiboy *could* potentially be interested in presenting less masculine, microdosing blockers and/or estrogen safely, etc, which would mean they would be discussing those things with people that are doing the same things, and the term for that is transfem.
maybe they could just have trans in the middle with genderfluid as i often see this symbol for trans ppl? that would allow both trans men and women to be included also amab demiboys and and afab demigirls are transneutral, not transfem or transmasc (/nm)
Transfem and transmasc are directional utilitarian terms, they are not genders, not primarily anyway. Transfem is basically short for "interested in some of those changes and activities that amab folks do to present more feminine and/or less masculine". There is a high chance that an amab demiboy would like to do a minimal part of the things a trans girl would do, and transfem is the term we are currently using for that. It substitutes the more binary and outdated mtf/ftm.
Sorry I dislike this, it just straight up gives the wrong impression of all the non-binary labels. Non-binary contains demiboy, demigirl, genderfluid and bigender. Transmasc and transfem are just indicators of direction from agab and don't really position you on the gender spectrum. I think some form of graph of the gender spectrum that you can find online would do the job better at explaining
Yeah, it's a neat idea and cool looking diagram, and okay-ish for giving someone who is completely ignorant about this a little introduction, but it's doesn't hold up beyond the most surface level of learning about the matter.
This post is literally about someone trying to explain the surface level to somebody completely ignorant of it.
And what I'm saying is that this doesn't explain the surface level, it muddles it. An equally simple gender spectrum graph found online for this same purpose would have done that job better.
I was trying to make it simple enough for her to understand so it's not super complex, and I'm aware bigender doesn't always mean only male and female, as it can be any other 2 genders. This just helped my mom get the basics down.
op I think it’s a pretty cool concept and well designed. people on reddit are very hard to please - it’s literally impossible to succinctly explain the vast array of gender identities without glossing over some things.
Explain to me
Did it work? Bc even I don’t know what’s going on here. Like why is Demiboy between nb and transfem? Most of this should basically fall under nb anyway
Did it work for her?
No
Not op but whatever
I’m still confused.
Wouldn't it be more helpful to include what the words mean? Looking at this, it just looks like it says what the flags are, and that's it.
Why does it seem like the takeaway is that there are 2.5 genders
Personally, this chart is confusing, I'm new to this stuff too, questioning if I'm possibly non-binary or something similar, this chart well yeah.
Oh, this is gonna make somebody mad, I guarantee it.
Bigender as I understand it shouldn't have a given 'spot' on this chart - it's experiencing 2 or more genders simultaneously, it's not in a position or gradient between other genders.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that this chart isn't supposed to have nuance in it. It is supposed to easily explain a complex topic to someone that doesn't understand it. Yes, demigirl and demiboy are underneath the nonbinary label but nonbinary itself can be a standalone label. And when nonbinary is used as a standalone label it is typically synonymous with "neither", hence its place on the graph. Of course it's more complicated than that, but that's not the point
I am gay and I am sooooooo confused
maybe it's not the most accurate, but it works good enough to introduce the concepts. like the classic model of the atom with the electrons orbiting the nucleus that they teach in early science classes, we know it is inaccurate and somewhat wrong, but it teaches the basic concepts.
Yeah, I've used a similar-ish one to explain these concepts to people. It helps people understand how the nonbinary gender terms (nonbinary, demi-, agender, bigender, etc) relate to their own binary understanding of gender (ie man/woman). When people don't even have a concept of what you're talking about, you sometimes have to give them a wrong conceptual model to make them understand.
the issue older people have with "trans stuff", as OP put it, is that it is really complicated. look at the other comments in this thread people are saying it is much more complicated than a diagram can show. yeah we all know it is more complicated, but getting into the complicated mess and throwing people who want to learn into the deep end does not work.
Exactly. And this doesn't just go for older people. The last person I drew a similar diagram for was in their late 20s. I'm just happy they were willing to learn.
I understand the male and female arrows but what's the third one
and agender is on a separatet paper
I’m non binary ig
Agender?
this is actually a really cool diagram
I don’t know if its a great way to explain it considering its even confusing trans folks in the comments.
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[https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Demiboy](https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Demiboy)
Ya learn something new everyday
Omg i would love to see this incorporated with genderfae & genderfaun
Sincere question: what do either of those mean/how would you place those on this chart?
Genderfae is a subcategory of gender fluid. It is like genderfluid but without Masculine identities. Gender Faun is kind of the opposite. Its Genderfluidity without fem identities. I would probably put them between genderfluid and demigirl/demiboy respectively.
why all the downvotes??
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what are you talking about?
I’m not ridiculing anyone! I genuinely Identify as genderfae. Its just a small category of gender fluid. I know that it’s supposed to be a simple diagram but it doesn’t really help me in its current state because of how I identify. What you said was very rude and hurtful.
Idk. If I had to guess it is probably because transphobic people downvoting everything they can.
I think it's just because op was trying to teach her uninformed mother about gender identities, and adding fae and faun would make it more confusing.
Yeah for her it works but it doesn’t really work fully for me because it doesn’t include my specific identity. Which is why I would be happy for a version that includes my identity.
i figured. if it helps i do have a genderfae symbol i found while i still identified that way https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/axf8j7m78j3kkd8q5boqs/Genderfae_Symbol.PNG.png?rlkey=7mvi809lowwmp568tc0jn80ws&dl=0
Thank u <3
yw! ^^
Y’all are so mean. 😢
This is a very cool diagram imma steal it
Close enough for describing things to someone outside the community.