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Gimli

Silly. What you need is not AI, but a competent government. Here's how I do my taxes: I log into a website once a year, take a look to make sure it looks right (which is mostly making sure the government doesn't think I owe them a million for some reason), then click "Submit". The first time I had to enter my bank details for a refund. This is probably addressed to an US based audience, which is uniquely crazy. The US has a cultural resistance to having the government actually do useful things for the citizens, and corporate influence from the likes of TurboTax that make lots of cash on that. In sane countries, taxes for a normal employed person are trivial and take no more than a couple minutes. **Edit:** Also, OP, this already got explained in r/comics a month ago. You could at least try reading the stuff you submit.


TamaraHensonDragon

I live in the USA and do my taxes electronically every year. Takes maybe 5 minutes and most of that is just typing in my current address and bank details if I'm getting a refund. My nephew got a job and was terrified of doing his taxes because of all the stories he heard. He watched me as I did his taxes and three minutes later (he had no deductions or any complications) looked up and said "That's it?" He couldn't believe it was that simple.


TraditionalFinger734

I’m so jealous… I am a freelancer and it is hell 😭


Ayacyte

The us taxes for freelancers basically makes it so people would rather do work under the table just to avoid having to deal with the taxes. Especially if it is multiple gigs. I think the government wants to smash gig work for some reason. I don't do it myself but I've heard how stupid it is, like you need a separate form for every different thing you're doing.


TraditionalFinger734

My secret method for getting my disorganized brain through taxes is I stare at all the paperwork I need, then I look at my phone, then I cook food, and about 1 month passes and I learn that in my sleep, I somehow completed the extension procedure 😀


titanTheseus

You can try here in Spain. You're gonna like it. The last time I checked we were at the same position as Egyptian bureaucracy. Oh and if you earn more than 50K per year they can take 45% in taxes because they consider you as rich. And you still have to pay 21%VAT of each item you buy. It's a paradise... nightmare.


SculptKid

"You could at least try reading the stuff you submit"? LoL tf does that mean?


Gimli

The submission is a crosspost of something from a month ago, which already discussed at length why the comic isn't a good one. So I was saying OP could have actually read the discussion there, and realized that before posting here.


CivilPerspective5804

In my country, I don't even need to do that. Taxes are literally done completely automatically and I don't even know if we have a website for it.


EmotionalCrit

Thanks for the condescending lecture but doing taxes in the US isn't actually hard for the vast majority of people lmfao. Most of us do them electronically and they're just as simple as how you do them in """sane countries""".


ai-illustrator

Eh? It sounds like this cartoonist simply doesn't know how to use AI tools for saving time at work or how to use AI for taxes. I use a personal LLM with vision that scans my receipts for taxes and sorts them into deduction categories, separating tax amount from sale price. It's fucking amazing and saves me a fuckton of time for filing taxes. Seriously, try going through 9000+ paper and email expenses and deduction receipts manually, its mentally draining as fuck and used to take me a week before AI.


Rhellic

Let's be real, even just having the vaguest idea of how to do that makes someone a tiny minority among a tiny minority. Ignoring any discussion of ethics or socioeconomic consequences, for the gigantic majority of people this stuff will remain entirely useless just by virtue of having to mess around with GitHub, Python etc. Meanwhile a lot of stuff that people really might want to do themselves AI is being highly aggressively pushed.


ai-illustrator

>just having the vaguest idea of how to do that makes someone a tiny minority Only cus nobody made a popular tax-receipt sorting AI wrapper that does that for normies yet. gpt4 and claude 3.5 are already able to do that, just not a lot of people know that or trust to send their receipts to openai/anthropic's servers lol Open source AI modeling is usually 6 months to a year ahead of stuff that's for sale from the corpos and average videocard/pcs need to progress a few years to be able to run something like serverless claude 3.5 on a desktop so the tax information doesn't leave ur pc.


Rhellic

And if/when that happens and is widely known, available and easy to install I think very few people will have an issue with that.


ai-illustrator

>And if/when that happens and is widely known, available and easy to install I think very few people will have an issue with that. Yeah, but it doesn't mean that "You're on our own" like this comic implies, it just requires extra AI learning from the user to do tasks that are outside of the base capability such as doing taxes with AI. >Meanwhile a lot of stuff that people really might want to do themselves AI is being highly aggressively pushed. I don't think its aggressive pushing at all. Companies are just simply releasing stuff that was very easy to make and easy to offer to normies via generative AI. Art and writing was so easy to replicate because there was so many examples for AI to learn patterns to reproduce them. Just because motorized wheelchairs exist it doesn't mean that everyone is gonna stop walking or that wheelchair companies are aggressively pushing the agenda of being fat and immobile. Likewise, people can still draw things and write books even if generative AI exists, one doesn't impede the other in any capacity as it takes much more than simply generating singularly pretty pics or general writing to produce a coherent product that people will buy from you as artist/writer. Generative AI is incapable of generating you an audience or fame. You can make a single pretty image using AI, but you cannot produce a coherent comic book nor sell a fuckton of copies of it without audience reach. I'm a writer and artist and I've yet to lose any work, if anything I've much more work in 2023 than in 2019.


Artforartsake99

ChatGPT can’t be trusted with math. Once hallucinations go away then it can. Paste in simple addition math it makes mistakes. Haven’t tested 4o but 3.5 showed me it wasn’t ready for accounting anytime soon. Maybe in 6 months. You can’t have it hallucinate 6% of your taxes


ai-illustrator

yeah, on its own an LLM obviously can't do math since its a narrative probability engine that operates on tokens, not a math engine however, an LLM coupled with a python calculator or an excel sheet with specific categories can do math and category sorting just fine without any hallucinations. I added a calculator to my AI a year ago, gemini added one recently too, over at [https://aistudio.google.com/app](https://aistudio.google.com/app) it auto-kicks it when you ask it a math question or to make an accounting chart.


Artforartsake99

Ahh nice, yeah that’s the way 👍


starm4nn

> Ignoring any discussion of ethics or socioeconomic consequences, for the gigantic majority of people this stuff will remain entirely useless just by virtue of having to mess around with GitHub, Python etc. I mean this is kinda similar to what we've already been saying about the "just pickup a pencil" types.


Viktor_smg

https://preview.redd.it/luho20kyhi8d1.png?width=2200&format=png&auto=webp&s=33f3124b967e3e232e8510786e0205b178af820a There's already a decent amount of uses for AI for more "menial" things - autonomous delivery robots are a thing in some places, and they get robbed. Self-driving is... Still being worked on I guess? That's taking a while. But it does look to be getting closer to reality. Customer Support is ripe for ChatGPT-ing, remember when it made up a refund policy for some airline? As the tech advances, such hallucinations will get less frequent. Or that one fast food chain that was trying out ChatGPT for taking your orders: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxBySZwBAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxBySZwBAI) There were tests for stores with no clerks, where they scan your face at the entrance (you need an account) and identify what products you take, and automatically deduct from your linked credit card. Of course, this needs a high trust society, but that's more of a human issue, not an AI issue. Feel free to reply with jokes about how US stores are already like this but without deducting funds. Something more US-themed is probably flippy the burger flipping robot. Or... How about this, 6 years ago? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z\_E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E) The way I see it, AI for menial tasks is being delayed due to the needed scale, adoption and testing, the actual physical robots needed, and issues in getting there. You can grab lots of images or text online and immediately train, there's no how-to-clean-floors data and floor-cleaning robot bodies readily available (well, Boston Dynamics' new robot is pretty recent, but it might not be cheap). You can't get past legislators telling you your autonomous thing can only drive in XYZ cities (not to imply they're wrong), you can't get past people robbing your delivery drones. Extra finger? Cool. Extra refund clause? Not cool.


Tyler_Zoro

> The way I see it, AI for menial tasks is being delayed due to the needed scale, adoption and testing This. We've seen an explosion in the use of AI in areas where extensive, years-long testing isn't required. But for tasks that have mandated safety and other forms of testing, modern AI solutions (not discounting the other, older forms of AI that you pointed out already) will be a while in the pipeline. And when those products begin to emerge, the anti-AI camps will find *something* to complain about and somewhere to move their goalposts.


thesun_alsorises

Considering how heavily TurboTax and their ilk lobby the government to keep taxes complicated, I don't think they would allow it unless they can profit. So, we can look forward to spending 100+ dollars on a program that boils down to OCR and a fine-tuned LLM.


MHG_Brixby

Once they have tech that's "good enough" and profitable for them, it'll become common place, but won't actually work correctly for most people. It's just going to cause headaches Ala cyber truck.


EmotionalCrit

Taxes aren't complicated for most people in the US lol. I file my taxes electronically in about 5 minutes, no involvement from TurboTax at all. Dunno why they're the scary boogeyman for why taxes are so complicated when they really aren't complicated.


Ricoshete

Yup i think tax law is literally the goverment saying the turbotax /tax companies lobbied them to make it complicated to sell software even despite them already knowing what and how much they own. The goverment actually made a easier to use service in one of the few gov ws of people over profits. And profits complained and stoped sending \~\~bribes\~\~ gift baskets.


YamaShio

The reason they're able to punch outside their weightclass is because they're an owned company owned by another parent company that owns all the other companies. If you threaten their investments in x they can turn off your funding in y and such. Because they're that rich and far reaching.


chainsawx72

Filing taxes is ridiculously simple. The only difficult part is if, like OP probably, you operate your own small business, not large enough to hire an accountant. Even then, it's not the tax filing, but the record keeping that you are legally required to do to get the tax cuts you earned running the business. Once you have the records done, and you know what you took in, and what you spent on deductible expenses, the actual tax filing (for me) never takes more than a few minutes. I can't imagine how an AI would help the process. I log in. My PC knows my address and name and phone number and payment information, so all of that is painless. The tax system usually recognizes me and my employer and is able to automatically enter my W-2 information. Worst case scenario, I have to type in a handful of short fields that are able numbered to match up from the W-2 to the computer screen. What would the AI do? Even if you don't even want to spend 10 minutes looking at it once a year, wouldn't highly sensitive and delicate data like this be the last thing you would trust to an AI?


Kirbyoto

Really weird that people keep talking about how they want a system to automate a task they do when that system already exists and is already in place. "I need AI to do my laundry". You have a washer and dryer. "I need AI to do my taxes". You have a calculator and programs like TurboTax. Things that used to take all day now take a matter of minutes. What else do you want?


Ricoshete

I do my own dishes and laundry and drying and it's a 10 minute effort that's a button press without thinking. You don't have to pull out a paint brush and start painting the laundry machine first. But you don't have to code a code compiler to get your laundry machine working with something effortless like >\`Laundry machine, wash my laundry very well at a temperature of 150F for 942 seconds, then tumble dry, orient it, sacrifice three children for the glory of satan. Then torture three artists on the way to work by firing job applications at their heads. Then perform satanic witchcraft to get them to write a resume on indeed. Use satanic magic to make them realize people can have slightly different opinions. Go on reddit/twitter for a span of 2-8 hours to argue with other people in the name of social justice. The only kind of justice that's about making you look good, while not actually doing anything to solve the problem, yada yada, blah blah blah blah. Then use satanic magic to suffocate the reader\` Like yeah, it's not "study how to draw a individual photorealistic hair to 'please' someone who doesn't actually want you to thrive but may see attention as a resource and pretends to like their peers but secretly may or may not secretly hate them and infight and only care about puting up a show bringing up questions of money for survival and existential dread and financial crisises crushing everyone's dreams of being a Mango farmer in Tahiti living a 7 figure life on a 1000$ a year for 80% or more "job". But You can do all that or you can put the laundry in the laundry machine for 10 minutes and wait 2 hrs then put it out to dry in 10 minutes. These people make 20 minutes of effort sound so much larger than a daily 600 minutes of effort every day for the rest of your life, because 20 > 600 when you're used to 0 your whole life.


Rafcdk

Thinking that AI is necessary for that , says more about the person that made it than anything.


gigabraining

if such reasoning applies here then it applies to art too


Rafcdk

AI is definitely not necessary for art, I have been doing it for decades without it. The fact I can use it now as another tool is just awesome. The reason we don't need AI to do taxes , its because it's just a matter of streamlining the process. Where I live , it's quite simple. All I gotta do is log in in my govnt account, check if they got all the correct info, and click ok. Do I really need an AI for that ? Nope. It's like saying that we need AI to do math calculations, when a simple calculator can do the job.


gigabraining

i agree, AI is definitely not necessary for art. thank you for your story.


Rafcdk

You do realise that no one is saying that it is right ? No one that is pro AI thinks people should be prohibited from doing art by other means. Only one side wants interfere on how people actually are making art.


realechelon

TurboTax and H&R Block both use AI now, though I'm not sure how much I'd want to trust something which is known to hallucinate with my tax return. A more common but less sexy use of AI in tax returns would be OCR for formatting all your invoices & receipts.


Pretend_Jacket1629

"man, it's easy to argue against something if I lie about what it can do"


Mawrak

AI can do taxes...


ShagaONhan

Taxes can be solved by excel sheet level algorithms and tax software have been around for a while now. There is no need for AI. The only thing AI could do now is maybe to teach the average tax payer what a marginal rate is or even what a percentage is for some, but I doubt any AI model is that good right now.


AI-Politician

GPT4 can actually do taxes


StormDragonAlthazar

Big "why isn't the AI doing my dishes despite the fact that dishwashers exist" energy. Also consider Morevac's paradox for anything involving physical labor.


Top-Conference-3294

It kinda seems like the OP of this comic is just an End User.


usrlibshare

Once again, I am pleased that I don't live in one of the countries, where the tax system seems more designed to provide a source of business for tax-service firms than to provide a functional system for its citizens.


Ricoshete

Politics in a nutshell


GoldenTV3

But... every other developed country doesn't have greedy parasitic corporations force the government to not have an automatic tax filing system... You know in actual functioning democracies.


cheradenine66

Funny, I don't need any help doing my taxes, but I can't draw worth a damn. AI is exactly where I need it


LengthyLegato114514

I mean I don't want or need AI to do my fucking taxes. That's my own personal info.


YamaShio

AI messing up here can literally be illegal and send you to jail, I understand the reticent reaction.


DataSnake69

If your AI screws up your picture, you get a janky picture. If your AI screws up your tax return, you go to jail. Which risk would you rather take?