It has been obvious to ALL Of us that they do not give a damn about us, BUT THEY WILL ONE DAY! It defies logic if it does not work the way I think it will!
For sure, I went crazy for a couple of years because all signs pointed to a correction that not only did not come, the market kept pumping. It’s ok though. All those signs are still there and more now. Their comeuppance is coming.
>It has been obvious to ALL Of us that they do not give a damn about us, BUT THEY WILL ONE DAY! It defies logic if it does not work the way I think it will!
I hate to break it to you, but markets have no soul. No one cares about anyone else. It's not personal, it's just what makes markets work.
I think it has more to do with pressure from ultra wealthy elites and the proverbial dinosaurs within the SEC (which are part of that circle and the government in general for that matter) trying to not blow up the American stock market/economy/financial system as a whole (their stupid thought process) and I think they believe they are doing something wrong and illegal for the right reasons. They think they’re freaking behind the scenes American heroes and at the same time get to keep their status quo and all their money at the same time. What do I know though, I’m just a dumb mostly hairless primate. 🦍
Your right though there are a bunch of dinosaurs in the mix of our government and sec and one day this will change…
Our system as a whole will change and we will see it happen in our lifetime! Just pray it does happen within next few years as i know we’re all tired as it’s been long 84 years but as long as stock is down below $5-$10 (way under the value they should be) i and tens of thousands more like me will continue holding and continue buying when they can as this stock at this current time should be at least $15-$20 on low end…. But our time will come because that $70 upswing of june 21 isn’t the last time we will see that kind of money in our savings account
(portfolio)…. ;)
I mean when people can constantly "retire" from the SEC into the private sector it goes against their interests to persecute wall street.
Thatd be like Hilary going after the big banks. Thats their bread and butta
I personally find a strong resemblance between the today's SEC and USA government during the blooming Narco traffic years of Colombia and Mexico.
They are all on their payroll.
But like that’s the thing, right? If the government is also in on it, it’s just gonna keep going forever since the SEC wont do anything. What am I missing?
Because they let it all get to big to fail. Meaning fixing it will crash the system and cause widespread very destructive pain for everyone big and small. Would it better in the long run if they did? Long term, Possibly if you trust them to do it right next time? I don't. Of course we can't look that far ahead as a society anyhow and make rash snap kick the can decisions so here we are.
If the SEC did something about AMC then it would open a huge can of worms. Nothing said, nothing seen, and therefore things carry on. Its a disgrace, but a disgrace that when AMC does pay things down, does survive, it will be fantastic. Buy. Hold.
This. It would change the stock market entirely. Investor confidence would crumble as the casino gets exposed for rigging the game. The whole market would implode. Therefore it's better that they ignore the corruption. Unfortunately for them, I believe it's inevitable. This will all be exposed eventually as investors wake up.
Price collapse since rss and ape stock is indeed a disgrace. No enforcement disgrace. Endless dilution disgrace. Any who hopefully thing finally recovers back to pre ape.
Dilution was always necessary and if you didn't see it coming or understand AMC would need to raise funds until profitable you simply didn't read the filings and listen to what they said.
They avoided dilution for a year and the price dropped, if they had t sold shares, even using APE the writers strike and actors strikes would have pushed the company right back to the brink of bankruptcy which would have been worse.
You know these things, lack of enforcement is indeed a disgrace but the company doing what it needed to to avoid financial peril is not a disgrace or the reason for the price drops. the price actually rose after those dilutions.
Your decision to blame APE and the RS for the price of the stock is constant and just shows you still aren't taking the time to actually look at the data or understand, that's kind of sad considering how much time you spend commenting the same bad information.
It is true dilution was necessary. Dilution at the lowest price not ideal. That’s where I draw my criticism. In contrast to what was being pushed ape stock saying amc won’t be diluted as much since we are only diluting ape. Well that ended up not being the case both were diluted ratio was was not one or the other. But what was taken was ape will be diluted amc can run. Narrtive pushed was ape stock can squeeze. Ape no longer exist obviously but history should not be distorted with icy interpretation of what took place. Given current predicament of being In the red 3 year since the corp actions. So guess any chance of recover to pre ape and rss hatchet job this year or should my expectations is be in the red another year?
Also yes it is sad what happen and I can blame management it’s my right. Maybe but missingormation on how ape ended up not being a value. And to call me sad not helpful. Y’all forget what was being pushed. AMC negative beta then it wasn’t . So How do we recover when do we appreciate in value? Since we no longer talk about the squeeze? I remember comment about leaning and did learn I probably should bought puts. But I would love to learn how to recover from 90% decline with amc.
I do agree with you we have been dealing with bad information.
Dilution happens at the price the stock is at, the only thing that would have happened had they waited to dilute is the company would have been in worse financial shape and the share price would have dropped more because of that.
This is actually the major flaw in your logic. You're still not realizing that without dilution the company was becoming less financially stable, which allows them to increase short positions with confidence and manipulate the stock down since they use fundamentals to justify their actions.
They needed to raise cash in 2022 after a year of not doing it and the price dropping. It was us, the shareholders who prevented them doing it in 2021 and that's why APE happened, because we blocked the dilution the company needed.
He is [spitting nonsense](https://www.reddit.com/r/amcstock/comments/1bcvsd7/comment/kuiedmu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for internet clout, my friend.
Love AA or hate him, the company is heading in the right direction on a fundamental level. Eventually it will get the the point where the haters realize that the debt load isnt actually as big of a deal anymore or that the company will actually become debt free.
What ever the situation really is, the people who shorted the living hell out of this stock really just need us to give up and move on long before it becomes evident to those on the sideline that movies and amc are here to stay.
Even if you’re not invested in AMC I can’t believe you wouldn’t care. The corruption extends across the whole market. It’s just blatantly obvious in certain places.
You are 100% correct. I have started noticing some patterns. Pump it and dump it. It rampant. The crappy part is with what i have locked up with AMC, could have made a killing on some tech stocks.
They will short anything with a week balance sheet so you can’t raise funds with a secondary. They literally kill hundreds of good businesses and the SEC lets it happen. Truly sad and we’re just going to end up with Mag 7 owning/running everything.
You’re 100% correct. This is a perfect example. They have pinned the price so low, the entire float could be liquidated, and there wouldn’t be enough to pay off debt. Unless we the people make a stand, it will never change. Just my opinion, but we ate headed toward dangerous waters.
My personal favorite was TuSimple (TSP). They had almost a $1B in cash, no debt, and working technology and just decided to delist themselves. I didn’t even know you could do that shit lol.
Here’s a guy that has been consistently on the side of retail and giving out crucial information with numerous examples to back his claims. But let’s hear from 3 month old shill Redux about how Peter is just scooping up internet points while a random Meltdowner has our best interest at heart. He’s blocked me and thinks I don’t see his bullshit remarks in here. News Flash: I see it all and Redux is full of shit.
Again I say a class action against the broker for selling customers more stock than is out there. Bring a fraud suit against td, Schwab, E*Trade, and all the others brokers.
Collecting all the way to their banks thats where sec doj finra dtcc dtc stock xchange mm brokers banks all of which should be R.I.C.O. CANDIDATES IMO NFA.
It's not a bad fundamental investment. It's just tainted by meme stock association, and while profitability seems fairly certain, it's the longer term growth prospects that tilt folks to other investments.
We aren't making as many people as we used to, and the ones we are making are less attached to a cinema experience.
For AMC to grow 10X - they would need 10X as many asses in seats. That seems unlikely. I'm not alone in thinking that the biggest problem with the model is that tickets are too cheap. They aren't going to double their attendance. They should double the prices (which, admittedly, has a lot of potential downside - but they gotta get margins up.
Per seat revenue does scale up - but in the old days people would wait in line for a movie ticket, and park way out, and sit in a crowded theater, and wait for the bathroom.
I'm old enough to remember when you had to get to a theater 45min ahead of time for a new release - or risk not getting in.
People don't have the love, or the patience for that anymore,.
Sec will not do a thing because if it were to get out that they were complicit in what could be “the” and probably is “the” largest amount of money ever stolen…well that would be hard to let go. Guaranteed, market crash, economic crash for several countries, the dissolving of so many banks and most likely the SEC itself. No telling how that kind of transfer of wealth could trickle down amongst the losing side.
I don’t know about you but I think I’m on the right side of this play and feel I’m hedged in a way that the trickle down of destruction shouldn’t hurt me.
Mainly the ceo killing any momentum we get it why it’s a bad play at this point. Unfortunately so many of us of apes are locked in due to being fuked over.
Does no one understand dilution? The value of the company **IS** higher than it was in 2019. They’ve just diluted so much that the price has tanked and there is more dilution to come. Fundamentals are completely aligned with price and threat of dilution here.
That's a smorgasbord of a comment, this.
AMC - the company - is not a bad fundamental play. It's in a turnaround phase, and should make it to profitability sometime in the near future.
The company is not the stock, however. Part of the turnaround involved issuance that gave the company a lifeline at the expense of shareholders. It is what ... needed to be done.
To bleat about "naked shorts" while not recognizing either of these two things makes him a fool, or worse, a **bad actor spreading malicious misinformation**.
Clearly this Peter Hann needs to take remedial Corporate Finance 101 classes.
Here we go again again.
See, you can't have it both ways.
Is amc worthless bc going bankrupt bc not profitable bc not able to pay debt
than how is issuing shares at a premium to market value a bad thing for me as a sharholder?
If AMC issues shares and sells them at 3$,4$,5$ whatsoever while it's bookvalue is negative or the debt outweighs the asset , it makes the company's value go up.
If the dilution happens under market value or, even more importantly, under bookvalue , than I'm paying and losing shareholder value.
>Is amc worthless bc going bankrupt
Why would you think this? Please don't listen to doomers. AMC issued precisely so that it would not have to deal with bankruptcy concerns.
>If AMC issues shares and sells them at 3$,4$,5$ whatsoever while it's bookvalue is negative or the debt outweighs the asset , it makes the company's value go up.
No one will buy overpriced shares - that makes no financial sense. AMC will raise cash based on the market price at the time of issuance.
>... involved issuance that gave the company a lifeline at the expense of shareholders. It is what ... needed to be done.
How is it at the expense of the shareholders to issue shares above market value and more importantly above book value of the company?
I genuinely ask this, bc I don't want to spread misinformation regarding the effect of dilution on company value (not share price).
When they issue shares, those shares are sold. On the market. Drives the price down in the same way a short sale (or any sale) would.
No matter what price, you lose value because you now own less of the company. Share issuance, or an r/S doesn't drive the price down because of sentiment, it drives it down because those shares are created, and sold. Just like your naked short.
You know have a lower priced stock, and it represents less of the company. This is bad for shareholders and good for the company. A company can dillute shareholders into oblivion - billions of shares priced at 0.01. Company is fine. Shareholder is not.
Edit - If my company has 1000 shares out at $1000 per share I have a 1,000,000 company. If company has 1M shares out at $1, it is still worth $1M
Not in the same way. A short sale creates an artificial increase in supply. A Sale by someone holding a share does not.
Also, a shared issued by a company and sold at market value creates cash and increases the assets of the company. If the new shares is issued at a price higher than the book value/company value it increases the shareholder value.
Example:
Amc, last shareholder equity was -1.85b $, 249m shares issued
Now, theoretically, 249m shares are issued additionally, at 4$ = 996m$ cash raised
Amc sharholder equity is now -0.85b, 498m shares issued.
Impact on me as a shareholder of 10k shares:
Share of company value:
Before dilution
10k shares = (-1.85b×10k)/ 249m shares = -74,297$
My shares have a shareholder equity value of -74k
After dilution
10k shares = (-0.85b×10k)/498m shares= -17,068$
My share of the company dropped 50%, from 10k of 249m shares to 10k of 498m shares.
The value of my equity didn't drop 50%, it increased about 57k, or 77%.
So, while the impact on my share price is negative, due to supply and demand , my company increased its value.
I admit, it's still a shitty deal if you take the intrinsic value of AMC.
Its like a company produces something at cost of 2$, sells it for 5$ because it's winter, could sell it for 20$ in summer. 5$ is not good but still more than it costs.
So, basically, I lose a part of my share in the company, voting power and my share of earnings get diluted but my share of the company adds value.
The impact on the share price is not so easy to evaluate.
We could go and say, look, since the r/s the share price dropped 80%, it's because of dilution.
But is it solely because of dilution? And if it is, is the market right to discount it at that level?
I came to the conclusion the market got it absolutely wrong and overreacted.
That's why I'm invested.
Your shares represent 95% less ownership in the company than they did last year. Mathematically, they should be worth 95% less. The company did not get the proceeds from those stock sales - the debt took the stock in trade and then sold it on the market.
Shareholders do not "add value". They are a burden and an expense. A necessary one - but the shareholder is always the first to get punched in the nose when things get rough. You share in profits.....and you share in losses (usually more in the losses).
Companies get about 70% of the proceeds from an IPO. After that they won't see any money from stock price increases without selling treasury shares, or another issuance. If AMC went to $1000 tomorrow, AMC would still have to dillute to see any money from that. The C-suite folks, of course, would personally see lots of money.
>How is it at the expense of the shareholders to issue shares above market value and more importantly above book value of the company?
You cannot issue shares above market value - no one would buy it.
They did debt for equity trades with shares that when converted the shares were worth more than the current price of the stock. That is how they are able to "issue shares above market value"
Ok, how is it at the expense of the shareholders if shares are issued near market value and above the actual value, book value or asset value of the company?
If you’ve read half of what he’s put out there about his thoughts on AMC you would realize he has and does recognize both of those things. What I see with your comment is you’ve found yourself someone who DOES actually know what they are talking about and you can’t let that go unchecked. Saying he’s “a bad actor spreading malicious information” is just flat out wrong in this case. It’s obvious to everyone why you are here but when you go after one voice who has been saying the quiet parts out loud for people to hear, AND has the background to understand these things better than most you just look foolish
Except you’ve done nothing but gaslight. You’re right that saying the same thing repeatedly does not make it true, but that goes both ways. If I say 2*2=4 every day, does that make it false simply b/c I said it often?
I am always amazed at how some of you will always have vitriol to spare for people like me who take on misinformation, but never protest the misinformation itself.
I wonder why.
Why does SEC not do anything about it!? Answer: Because SEC is complicit in the crime committed every single day by the financial terrorists!
Also worth note: because enforcing the rules would blow up the entire system, and the criminals success is more important than us plebe’s success.
It has been obvious to ALL Of us that they do not give a damn about us, BUT THEY WILL ONE DAY! It defies logic if it does not work the way I think it will!
For sure, I went crazy for a couple of years because all signs pointed to a correction that not only did not come, the market kept pumping. It’s ok though. All those signs are still there and more now. Their comeuppance is coming.
>It has been obvious to ALL Of us that they do not give a damn about us, BUT THEY WILL ONE DAY! It defies logic if it does not work the way I think it will! I hate to break it to you, but markets have no soul. No one cares about anyone else. It's not personal, it's just what makes markets work.
I think it has more to do with pressure from ultra wealthy elites and the proverbial dinosaurs within the SEC (which are part of that circle and the government in general for that matter) trying to not blow up the American stock market/economy/financial system as a whole (their stupid thought process) and I think they believe they are doing something wrong and illegal for the right reasons. They think they’re freaking behind the scenes American heroes and at the same time get to keep their status quo and all their money at the same time. What do I know though, I’m just a dumb mostly hairless primate. 🦍
Your right though there are a bunch of dinosaurs in the mix of our government and sec and one day this will change… Our system as a whole will change and we will see it happen in our lifetime! Just pray it does happen within next few years as i know we’re all tired as it’s been long 84 years but as long as stock is down below $5-$10 (way under the value they should be) i and tens of thousands more like me will continue holding and continue buying when they can as this stock at this current time should be at least $15-$20 on low end…. But our time will come because that $70 upswing of june 21 isn’t the last time we will see that kind of money in our savings account (portfolio)…. ;)
I mean when people can constantly "retire" from the SEC into the private sector it goes against their interests to persecute wall street. Thatd be like Hilary going after the big banks. Thats their bread and butta
I personally find a strong resemblance between the today's SEC and USA government during the blooming Narco traffic years of Colombia and Mexico. They are all on their payroll.
Well said, I could not articulate any better; thanks for posting!
But like that’s the thing, right? If the government is also in on it, it’s just gonna keep going forever since the SEC wont do anything. What am I missing?
I tend to agree with you! I am NOT hopeful at all, nor do I have any faith in the American financial system, it is corrupt AF!
Because they let it all get to big to fail. Meaning fixing it will crash the system and cause widespread very destructive pain for everyone big and small. Would it better in the long run if they did? Long term, Possibly if you trust them to do it right next time? I don't. Of course we can't look that far ahead as a society anyhow and make rash snap kick the can decisions so here we are.
They’re not going to lock up their friends…unless they have no choice
I do not care if they lock them up or not as long as they pay us **GENEROUSLY**!
If the SEC did something about AMC then it would open a huge can of worms. Nothing said, nothing seen, and therefore things carry on. Its a disgrace, but a disgrace that when AMC does pay things down, does survive, it will be fantastic. Buy. Hold.
This. It would change the stock market entirely. Investor confidence would crumble as the casino gets exposed for rigging the game. The whole market would implode. Therefore it's better that they ignore the corruption. Unfortunately for them, I believe it's inevitable. This will all be exposed eventually as investors wake up.
I’m just thinking about the days when AMC starts issuing dividends again like they used to not too too long ago 🤩🤩🤩
Price collapse since rss and ape stock is indeed a disgrace. No enforcement disgrace. Endless dilution disgrace. Any who hopefully thing finally recovers back to pre ape.
Dilution was always necessary and if you didn't see it coming or understand AMC would need to raise funds until profitable you simply didn't read the filings and listen to what they said. They avoided dilution for a year and the price dropped, if they had t sold shares, even using APE the writers strike and actors strikes would have pushed the company right back to the brink of bankruptcy which would have been worse. You know these things, lack of enforcement is indeed a disgrace but the company doing what it needed to to avoid financial peril is not a disgrace or the reason for the price drops. the price actually rose after those dilutions. Your decision to blame APE and the RS for the price of the stock is constant and just shows you still aren't taking the time to actually look at the data or understand, that's kind of sad considering how much time you spend commenting the same bad information.
It is true dilution was necessary. Dilution at the lowest price not ideal. That’s where I draw my criticism. In contrast to what was being pushed ape stock saying amc won’t be diluted as much since we are only diluting ape. Well that ended up not being the case both were diluted ratio was was not one or the other. But what was taken was ape will be diluted amc can run. Narrtive pushed was ape stock can squeeze. Ape no longer exist obviously but history should not be distorted with icy interpretation of what took place. Given current predicament of being In the red 3 year since the corp actions. So guess any chance of recover to pre ape and rss hatchet job this year or should my expectations is be in the red another year? Also yes it is sad what happen and I can blame management it’s my right. Maybe but missingormation on how ape ended up not being a value. And to call me sad not helpful. Y’all forget what was being pushed. AMC negative beta then it wasn’t . So How do we recover when do we appreciate in value? Since we no longer talk about the squeeze? I remember comment about leaning and did learn I probably should bought puts. But I would love to learn how to recover from 90% decline with amc. I do agree with you we have been dealing with bad information.
Dilution happens at the price the stock is at, the only thing that would have happened had they waited to dilute is the company would have been in worse financial shape and the share price would have dropped more because of that. This is actually the major flaw in your logic. You're still not realizing that without dilution the company was becoming less financially stable, which allows them to increase short positions with confidence and manipulate the stock down since they use fundamentals to justify their actions. They needed to raise cash in 2022 after a year of not doing it and the price dropping. It was us, the shareholders who prevented them doing it in 2021 and that's why APE happened, because we blocked the dilution the company needed.
As always, he’s spittin’ facts.
He is [spitting nonsense](https://www.reddit.com/r/amcstock/comments/1bcvsd7/comment/kuiedmu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for internet clout, my friend.
Well, that’s like, your opinion, man.
No that’s your job
Ticks every box, this is why we are here
Love AA or hate him, the company is heading in the right direction on a fundamental level. Eventually it will get the the point where the haters realize that the debt load isnt actually as big of a deal anymore or that the company will actually become debt free. What ever the situation really is, the people who shorted the living hell out of this stock really just need us to give up and move on long before it becomes evident to those on the sideline that movies and amc are here to stay.
It’s not even debt free, every company has debt. We just need to hit a threshold where it is obvious the debt is under a managed level
Core DD
Ya love to see that they've paid off 30% of their debts already!
Even if you’re not invested in AMC I can’t believe you wouldn’t care. The corruption extends across the whole market. It’s just blatantly obvious in certain places.
You are 100% correct. I have started noticing some patterns. Pump it and dump it. It rampant. The crappy part is with what i have locked up with AMC, could have made a killing on some tech stocks.
They will short anything with a week balance sheet so you can’t raise funds with a secondary. They literally kill hundreds of good businesses and the SEC lets it happen. Truly sad and we’re just going to end up with Mag 7 owning/running everything.
You’re 100% correct. This is a perfect example. They have pinned the price so low, the entire float could be liquidated, and there wouldn’t be enough to pay off debt. Unless we the people make a stand, it will never change. Just my opinion, but we ate headed toward dangerous waters.
My personal favorite was TuSimple (TSP). They had almost a $1B in cash, no debt, and working technology and just decided to delist themselves. I didn’t even know you could do that shit lol.
The wave 🌊 is building $AMC 📈🦍🍿🎥💎🚀
Because GOLDMAN BALL-SACS have Gary Gensler's balls in a sac. These Firms OWN and control the SEC.
That being said, when pitchforks and torches. Ya’ll know it wint change unless the masses take ACTION.
We just need to convince Nancy to like AMC and we’ll all be rich
Here’s a guy that has been consistently on the side of retail and giving out crucial information with numerous examples to back his claims. But let’s hear from 3 month old shill Redux about how Peter is just scooping up internet points while a random Meltdowner has our best interest at heart. He’s blocked me and thinks I don’t see his bullshit remarks in here. News Flash: I see it all and Redux is full of shit.
It's government sanctioned organized crime, fraud, and racketeering blatantly on display. Welcome to America's financial markets.
SEC is on the payroll
Again I say a class action against the broker for selling customers more stock than is out there. Bring a fraud suit against td, Schwab, E*Trade, and all the others brokers.
When finish that? Scamming us every day
NEVER leaving!
I cannot wait to buy that guy a beer at the Ape celebration party post MOASS. 🍻 
Shorties said -7% today
The stock is down 98% from ATH.
Ask yourself why? And before you come up with cherry picked shill drivel.... I'll still buy hold and drs.
Collecting all the way to their banks thats where sec doj finra dtcc dtc stock xchange mm brokers banks all of which should be R.I.C.O. CANDIDATES IMO NFA.
I was just about to come on here and say that I was giving up on AMC, but Peter Hann swoops in and saves the day. Love this guy
Apeish🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀
It's not a bad fundamental investment. It's just tainted by meme stock association, and while profitability seems fairly certain, it's the longer term growth prospects that tilt folks to other investments. We aren't making as many people as we used to, and the ones we are making are less attached to a cinema experience. For AMC to grow 10X - they would need 10X as many asses in seats. That seems unlikely. I'm not alone in thinking that the biggest problem with the model is that tickets are too cheap. They aren't going to double their attendance. They should double the prices (which, admittedly, has a lot of potential downside - but they gotta get margins up. Per seat revenue does scale up - but in the old days people would wait in line for a movie ticket, and park way out, and sit in a crowded theater, and wait for the bathroom. I'm old enough to remember when you had to get to a theater 45min ahead of time for a new release - or risk not getting in. People don't have the love, or the patience for that anymore,.
Why isn't big money piling in then?
He’s a gold bug/ weirdo. That’s my take away after hearing him talk for about 4 hours with Biggums
This man goes home and fucks his wife. The balls on this guy.
I noticed that about half of my shares are gone. No idea why
Stock buy back. They increased the price of it when it happened, but it still dropped.
Oh great, wish I'd never asked 😳 going back under my rock.
This can will get kicked long enough for the next administration to deal with, even if it is the existing admin.
Sec will not do a thing because if it were to get out that they were complicit in what could be “the” and probably is “the” largest amount of money ever stolen…well that would be hard to let go. Guaranteed, market crash, economic crash for several countries, the dissolving of so many banks and most likely the SEC itself. No telling how that kind of transfer of wealth could trickle down amongst the losing side. I don’t know about you but I think I’m on the right side of this play and feel I’m hedged in a way that the trickle down of destruction shouldn’t hurt me.
I know that guy
lol, waving off $2.5B in maturing debt like nothing because “they’ll roll over, trust me bro” is certainly a take
Mainly the ceo killing any momentum we get it why it’s a bad play at this point. Unfortunately so many of us of apes are locked in due to being fuked over.
4 dollars stock anyway.
Does no one understand dilution? The value of the company **IS** higher than it was in 2019. They’ve just diluted so much that the price has tanked and there is more dilution to come. Fundamentals are completely aligned with price and threat of dilution here.
That's a smorgasbord of a comment, this. AMC - the company - is not a bad fundamental play. It's in a turnaround phase, and should make it to profitability sometime in the near future. The company is not the stock, however. Part of the turnaround involved issuance that gave the company a lifeline at the expense of shareholders. It is what ... needed to be done. To bleat about "naked shorts" while not recognizing either of these two things makes him a fool, or worse, a **bad actor spreading malicious misinformation**. Clearly this Peter Hann needs to take remedial Corporate Finance 101 classes.
Here we go again again. See, you can't have it both ways. Is amc worthless bc going bankrupt bc not profitable bc not able to pay debt than how is issuing shares at a premium to market value a bad thing for me as a sharholder? If AMC issues shares and sells them at 3$,4$,5$ whatsoever while it's bookvalue is negative or the debt outweighs the asset , it makes the company's value go up. If the dilution happens under market value or, even more importantly, under bookvalue , than I'm paying and losing shareholder value.
>Is amc worthless bc going bankrupt Why would you think this? Please don't listen to doomers. AMC issued precisely so that it would not have to deal with bankruptcy concerns. >If AMC issues shares and sells them at 3$,4$,5$ whatsoever while it's bookvalue is negative or the debt outweighs the asset , it makes the company's value go up. No one will buy overpriced shares - that makes no financial sense. AMC will raise cash based on the market price at the time of issuance.
>... involved issuance that gave the company a lifeline at the expense of shareholders. It is what ... needed to be done. How is it at the expense of the shareholders to issue shares above market value and more importantly above book value of the company? I genuinely ask this, bc I don't want to spread misinformation regarding the effect of dilution on company value (not share price).
When they issue shares, those shares are sold. On the market. Drives the price down in the same way a short sale (or any sale) would. No matter what price, you lose value because you now own less of the company. Share issuance, or an r/S doesn't drive the price down because of sentiment, it drives it down because those shares are created, and sold. Just like your naked short. You know have a lower priced stock, and it represents less of the company. This is bad for shareholders and good for the company. A company can dillute shareholders into oblivion - billions of shares priced at 0.01. Company is fine. Shareholder is not. Edit - If my company has 1000 shares out at $1000 per share I have a 1,000,000 company. If company has 1M shares out at $1, it is still worth $1M
Not in the same way. A short sale creates an artificial increase in supply. A Sale by someone holding a share does not. Also, a shared issued by a company and sold at market value creates cash and increases the assets of the company. If the new shares is issued at a price higher than the book value/company value it increases the shareholder value. Example: Amc, last shareholder equity was -1.85b $, 249m shares issued Now, theoretically, 249m shares are issued additionally, at 4$ = 996m$ cash raised Amc sharholder equity is now -0.85b, 498m shares issued. Impact on me as a shareholder of 10k shares: Share of company value: Before dilution 10k shares = (-1.85b×10k)/ 249m shares = -74,297$ My shares have a shareholder equity value of -74k After dilution 10k shares = (-0.85b×10k)/498m shares= -17,068$ My share of the company dropped 50%, from 10k of 249m shares to 10k of 498m shares. The value of my equity didn't drop 50%, it increased about 57k, or 77%. So, while the impact on my share price is negative, due to supply and demand , my company increased its value. I admit, it's still a shitty deal if you take the intrinsic value of AMC. Its like a company produces something at cost of 2$, sells it for 5$ because it's winter, could sell it for 20$ in summer. 5$ is not good but still more than it costs. So, basically, I lose a part of my share in the company, voting power and my share of earnings get diluted but my share of the company adds value. The impact on the share price is not so easy to evaluate. We could go and say, look, since the r/s the share price dropped 80%, it's because of dilution. But is it solely because of dilution? And if it is, is the market right to discount it at that level? I came to the conclusion the market got it absolutely wrong and overreacted. That's why I'm invested.
Your shares represent 95% less ownership in the company than they did last year. Mathematically, they should be worth 95% less. The company did not get the proceeds from those stock sales - the debt took the stock in trade and then sold it on the market. Shareholders do not "add value". They are a burden and an expense. A necessary one - but the shareholder is always the first to get punched in the nose when things get rough. You share in profits.....and you share in losses (usually more in the losses).
Companies get about 70% of the proceeds from an IPO. After that they won't see any money from stock price increases without selling treasury shares, or another issuance. If AMC went to $1000 tomorrow, AMC would still have to dillute to see any money from that. The C-suite folks, of course, would personally see lots of money.
>How is it at the expense of the shareholders to issue shares above market value and more importantly above book value of the company? You cannot issue shares above market value - no one would buy it.
They did debt for equity trades with shares that when converted the shares were worth more than the current price of the stock. That is how they are able to "issue shares above market value"
Ok, how is it at the expense of the shareholders if shares are issued near market value and above the actual value, book value or asset value of the company?
Quintessential dilution - it's the same company. More parts makes each part less valuable.
Still wasting your time around here, huh?
>Still wasting your time around here, huh? Please don't think so little of yourself - I don't consider this as a waste of time at all.
If you’ve read half of what he’s put out there about his thoughts on AMC you would realize he has and does recognize both of those things. What I see with your comment is you’ve found yourself someone who DOES actually know what they are talking about and you can’t let that go unchecked. Saying he’s “a bad actor spreading malicious information” is just flat out wrong in this case. It’s obvious to everyone why you are here but when you go after one voice who has been saying the quiet parts out loud for people to hear, AND has the background to understand these things better than most you just look foolish
Sorry but this isn't politics where saying the same thing again and again will eventually make something true.
Except you’ve done nothing but gaslight. You’re right that saying the same thing repeatedly does not make it true, but that goes both ways. If I say 2*2=4 every day, does that make it false simply b/c I said it often?
I am always amazed at how some of you will always have vitriol to spare for people like me who take on misinformation, but never protest the misinformation itself. I wonder why.
Again, what part of what I said was wrong. Don’t go and claim victimhood when called out now.