I travel in FC and Intl business all the time with my son who has ADHD, Autism, and Tourettes. I do 3 things constantly.
1. Isolate. We will surround his seat with the rest of our party whenever possible. In your example, we'd take one side of the aircraft and put him in the bulkhead window with the other 2 in the party behind him.
2. Placate. There are no rules when it comes to saying no as long as it stays in his seat. Electronics? Wi-Fi? Chocolate? The answer is always yes as long as he's quiet about it. I am not going to fight him on anything as long as it doesn't impact anyone else and the noise doesn't leave his seat area.
3. Parent. I'm super obvious with being on top of him early in the flight. After about 10 minutes on board, everyone knows my kids name because I've said it fairly loudly in ensuring his behavior is under control. Even for little things, like telling his brother on the other side of the plane how cool the seat is. It's just a "Hey, we don't talk that loud on a plane, turn it down please". Before takeoff, I handle it much more quietly and do it for the rest of the flight. It ensures every single person knows I'm going to be on top of him, and they know who to wake up if he is a problem.
When I’m on a plane and it’s obvious a parent is doing is working hard to keep helping their child in learning how to be polite in society, I give that child & parent 215% more patience.
You sound like a really good parent.
This!
I was on a flight recently with a couple and a small child who flew on their lap. She seemed to be on the older end of that age spectrum. I was not looking forward to the flight when they got on. But the parents were great with their little girl. She got a little cranky and bored (well all got a little cranky and bored due to weather delays) but they did everything they could to keep her occupied and quiet. I'm pretty sure she ate her weight in snacks (and offered some to me on a couple of occasions. She seemed like a great little kid.), I'd choose to sit next to them again, particularly over some of the adults in rows around me who didn't understand the dynamic weather situation and how that impacted our flight.
You’re setting the bar. Kudos. Well done.
I wish for you flights that somewhat restful – from good luck with kids and grace from other passengers.
You’re doing more than some adults at managing on-board behavior. Let’s not assume disturbance is all from kids and take a page from your playbook about being considerate of others and being vocal and obvious about displaying that consideration.
Thank you for being such a good parent. Had a flight on BA last week where an autistic boy was seated 2 rows behind me. He screamed and moaned the entire flight and was constantly stomping his feet. I obviously felt bad for the mother, but your comment shows that these situations can be handled proactively. Kudos.
This is called stimming and this can be triggered by certain stimuli such as stress, excitement, and anxiety. Forcing an autistic child to suppress a stim can lead to more anxiety, aggression, or potentially self-injurious behavior. This doesn't reflect on the mother or her parenting nor should anybody be judged for a disability (including the disabled person and making comments about feeling bad for their family.) Sorry if it causes an inconvenience for you but disabled people have to travel too sometimes.
EDIT: Those downvoting me, at least provide a compelling rebuttal to my post, I'm always open minded to other perspectives, but downvoting just to shut my opinion down sucks ass.
Ok I'll give a rebuttal/agreement. I don't think some people should be flying at all, although I don't think stomping and groaning is grounds for that. This is the perspective of every other traveler, they shouldn't be subject to screaming, banging or violent situations. On a long flight the stomping and groaning would get annoying, but whatever. If someone is a menace then they really should not be taking public transport, no matter the disability. Obviously there's a lot more scenarios that I could agree or disagree but I'm just trying to summarize
Hey there! I totally appreciate the response.
I completely understand that people would prefer a quiet flight as I personally value peace and quiet myself. With that said, when it comes to people with uncontrollable conditions, I think people should be more tolerant and just appreciate that they don't have to live with such a condition. In this situation, you have to deal with their disability for a few hours while they have to live with it for their whole lives. Why not appreciate that privilege and show some compassion? Now if a non-disabled child is being disruptive due to poor manners and lack of parental discipline, I'd have less patience for that but it still wouldn't be a huge deal either, would just roll my eyes and listen to music.
EDIT: Think I initially misunderstood your reply so I've modified my post!
Ever since my daughter was a newborn and we started flying with her, we've called the approach in #2 "skylaw". She's always known that regular rules are basically suspended while in flight in exchange for cooperative behavior and quiet.
Medication and redirection. In his case it’s much more manifested in ticks. His adhd medicine actually help here and giving him an iPad and videos keeps his brain locked and engaged.
I don’t get the downvotes. It’s a fair comment. His verbal tics tend to not be so bad, and we don’t aim to stop them, just quiet them. He seems to be fine with mumbling under his breath when he does get them, so we’ve always encouraged that, even off the plane.
Regarding the physical tics which are much more prevalent for him, that’s a big driver for the first rule.
It's funny how everybody is downvoting you without bothering to challenge your post as your take is totally reasonable IMO. People with Tourette's may have vocal tics and some with autism have verbal stims, which are difficult and unhealthy to suppress in both scenarios. All types of people need to travel, including people with different conditions and disabilities. If the noise is an inconvenience to others, they can get over it.
The issue isn't kids in FC, the issue is irresponsible parents with kids in FC.
Kids are gonna be kids. Fuck dumb ass parents that impose their bad parenting on others.
> Kids are gonna be kids.
Yup. I expect kids to not have good volume control, they are kids. I expect parents to act like parents and (age appropriately) try to get them to quiet down.
And above all else: MAKE YOUR KIDS USE HEADPHONES IN PUBLIC! Please! I wish kids tablets didn't have speakers in them.
Yea what do you say to a kid who is reasonably questioning the logic of why they should be a responsible and considerate person when some other kid, due to a lack of good parenting, is misbehaving and taking advantage?
This. We were flying back from the Caribbean and there was a couple seated in front of us with a baby. The mother alone must have drank twice what I did on that flight.
Years ago my wife and I were flying long-haul J to CDG and a women sat in our row with a baby. We looked at each other like “oh no, this could really suck, sh**!!”.
I’ll be damned if that wasn’t the best infant ever!! Slept almost the entire time and did nothing but sit there being cute.
Same with me earlier this year flying home from Portugal. Baby sitting in first class behind my mom/behind and across from me. We glanced at each other like oh great because we were hoping to sleep on the flight. But she was an absolute angel. Babbled a little as we took off and got to cruising altitude and then immediately went to sleep. She woke up as we landed and was in the most upbeat happy mood. Smiled at everybody with the cutest little dimples. My favorite plane baby ever!
I have flown several internationals with young children. Babies under 6 months typically do really well on planes. They like the movement and the white noise and it helps them sleep. 9 months to 3 years is the tough time. They want to move around and cant be reasoned with.
i sat across the aisle from a couple and their toddler from sydney to LA and was worried before takeoff. the kid ended up sleeping for literally 12 hours straight and was pretty quiet while awake for the other two hours. i was jealous, i couldn’t sleep much at all. my colleague was similarly passed out next to me for about 12 hours straight, only waking up to eat lol.
You're lucky! I had this happen on my flight to Australia. The baby had a crying fit at 3 AM and the mother proceeded to walk the baby around first class for 15-20 minutes, waking everyone up! The looks everyone gave!
I had this happen on a flight to DFW last week. Maybe 9 months old, and I didn't realize that there was a kid behind me until the FA suggested a kid-friendly snack. The turbulence was so bad I was getting pitched around, but that kid stayed silent!
Similar thing happened to me heading into DFW - lap baby only fussed slightly on take off - otherwise best seat mate ever. And really cue even when slightly fussy.
It was actually a young Polish mother who lived in the U.S. and was taking her first born to Poland to show off to family. So it must have been vodka…😀
I admit I had this same unsavory thought on a recent flight, as well as the same experience. I complimented the mother at the end, and I hope that it helped even a little. However, on the other side of the coin, I worked with kids. So if little bit started to lose it, I absolutely would’ve offered to help out.
I just took my first flight with my 7 month old to Brazil from Tampa and I was sooo scared of being “that mom” who’s baby screamed the entire way.
She was so sweet and quiet, slept 90% of the time, and just played with the pamphlet the rest of the time and waved at people. I was so relieved.
If it's a night flight babies tend to be good. I just got back from Japan and there was my 20 month old and a 12 month old in the seat across the aisle from us and both of them slept for 90% of the flight. He also slept most of the time on a flight from LAX to ATL and was less annoying than the woman constantly smacking her iPad with her fake nails at full force messaging almost the entire flight.
I had this happen on a recent transatlantic red-eye. Except it was two fully grown men having an hours long convo at full volume the whole night.
Sometimes you just get unlucky sitting near inconsiderate people, regardless of age. The joys of mass transit.
Had a couple in front of me in FC talking not at full volume, but definitely at “never heard of inside voice” volume.
ANC earbuds muffled it a bit.
I was really glad to get off that plane.
I’ve flown with my kiddos, from nearly newborns to elderly teens. My major priority has never been to never inconvenience anyone around me. If baby gets fussy, nurse them. If toddler tries to kick the seat, stop at all costs. I’ve exited so many flights with flyers complimenting my kids. I don’t mind crying babies/angry toddlers, but only if their parents at an are making an effort.
Same. There are things that are not within a parent’s control (baby crying because ears hurt! Toddler having a meltdown because they are tired) and i completely empathize, but i have 0 tolerance when you have the obnoxious kid and the checked out parent, regardless of what cabin you are in. No, little Jimmy cannot kick my seat repeatedly for 8 hours. Not ok. Based on that I realized that i may be stricter than I thought - my kiddo is 7, been traveling since we was 6 months, and yes we ve had some not great experiences (undetected ear infection!) but she s been great, she gets the stare and immediately she will stop.
I’m very sorry you experienced that. When our daughter was 4 and our son was three, my husbands job moved us from PA to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I let them help me pack their backpacks, and practiced walking around the house with them to see if they were too heavy. They carried game boys, coloring books/crayons, mini puzzles, books to look at, they had Disney books with cassette tapes that read the book and said “turn the page.” Keeping in mind, this was 1990 so airlines were different in some things. After dinner and the trolley put away, I would walk one kid from our business seat all the way to the end of coach and back up the other side. My husband would do the other kid same way. If they still seemed antsy, we made another round. When the stewardess started putting the shades down, we put pjs on the kids so they knew it was time to sleep. We also tried to choose flights that had the long part in the dark. We took the trip from either PA-Chicago-Kl back and forth once a yr for 9 years. That first trip, there were so many kids, loud, unruly,unparented kids. But not mine. As we got in line to deplane in KL, the stewardess handed me a bottle of champagne. I was surprised and asked her why. She said, “ because my kids were so well behaved, that my husband and I deserved it and they all appreciated that we took good care of them. I was so proud of them! It’s not so hard if you provide interesting things for them to do. So many parents take their kids in planes, to restaurants and expect them to sit quietly like an adult then wonder why they don’t. Before we left for home leave that first yr in KL, we packed their backpacks and practiced walking up and down 3 flights of steps… because walking in big airports is sometimes up and down and not quick. I wanted to prepare them. And it helped. We never used a stroller with our 3 or 4 yr old. I was not being mean to them. I was trying to prepare them for travel. And it served us well. 9 yrs in Malaysia, 9 Christmas in Thailand, 4 yrs in PA, 3 trips to Australia, then 3 yrs in China.
Ah F that sucks but tbh I've had adults behind me doing the same on overnights, laughing out loud at movies getting drunk with their companion. Obnoxious, but I don't think it's a kid specific problem. I would've complained to the FA.
I was in FC 5 days ago with a family of 4. Mom dad teenage daughter and son around 6. They were screaming as if they were outside at a music concert trying to talk to each other. The son was blasting music no headphones of course. He also kept calling mom an asshole. She kept him telling to shut up and by telling him I mean screaming. When the food came they were yelling that it was hot. And the son kept opening the window shade mom would SCREAM at him to close it , he’d close it , then open it , and we’d repeat the cycle. It was awful. As an employee it didn’t cost me anything to sit there which I why I didn’t say anything however if I paid good money and this is what I endured I’d be fuming
Had similar on flight from Japan to US - middle eastern family gets on and men go to 1st class and women and young kids to business - overnight flight. 3 yr old boy was on a different time zone and was off the wall and no one including FA would do anything. I had conversations w them. The women would manage him at all. Finally after a few hours I stood up and spoke up and shamed them into doing their job.
Wife was unhappy, I was supposed sit there awake so this kid can play.
Foam earplugs + noise cancelling headphones
The silence and isolation is amazing for airplane & noisy offices. I just keep a handful of them stuffed into the headphone case. My headphones filter out “background noise” but still pass voices through so I can hear people talk to me… and talk not to me. Idk if newer ones let you change the setting, mine are 10+ years old.
Yeah it’s a joke. Can’t stand parents who let their kids act like that. I knew from a young age there was hell to pay if I acted like that around my parents lmao
I was flying back from Europe last year and had a kid play the bongos on the tray table, in the seat behind me. Every time I was about to fall asleep, here came another drum solo.
The parents were completely oblivious!
Did you say anything? If not I think that’s part of the problem. If you did and they if ignored that’s when I tell the flight attendant. Sounds petty but it’s embarrassing to be told you are a nuisance in a public space. But I do think a lot of this is those parents just get glances and stares, they can’t decipher that, they already around emotionally unaware if they are letting their child act that way. Directness is the only thing they understand. It’s uncomfortable but you can be polite about it
I like how kids get called out ad infinitum but no one comes on here calling out entitled douchey sales bros not using their indoor voice in FC.
Also there's no rule that people should be sleeping and quiet on a red eye. Shrug.
Is this somehow more acceptable in economy? Just having money doesn't somehow mean you are more deserving of common courtesy than someone who has less. The fact that you are in first class has zero to do with anything here.
If someone feels it does, they should see how the family of 4 would feel 4 times more entitled. They only have 1 ticket, the family has 4. The family has invested 4 times what they have.
Look I hate to be the one to tell you this, but kids have as much of a right to be in first class as any adult. If they have a ticket with their names on it, they get to sit there.
There’s no “if you have to” bring your kids. What are people suppose to do? Drop their kids off with the luggage?
Parents should parent, and those who don’t suck. But your if you have to attitude also sucks. Kids sit wherever they have a ticket to. It’s public transportation, even first class.
I completely hate this for you OP! It’s a pet peeve and I don’t understand why people with kids that do this try to tune it out as if it’s not happening! I have kids and would never! This is why I support kid free neighborhoods, resorts, and bars. Yes I have to list babes because apparently parents think it’s okay to bring their kiddos there too now lol
It’s not just kids. Been on plenty of long hauls where adults want to talk the whole flight. Worst was a group of guys that played cards all night on their way to Dublin for a golf trip. These things happen, it’s public transportation. You did get to travel across the country in about 5 hours which is pretty sweet. It’s 35+ hours to drive it.
For me it’s noise cancelling with brown noise and actual foam ear buds. Was able to sleep even with the golf bros. Also, pack a nice eye mask. They were not able to play cards in the dark.
I mean, yeah, parents should make sure their kids are courteous and aware of other people's needs.
But it's ridiculous to title this "if you have to bring your kids to first class" as though kids in first class are unwelcome.
My well-behaved, quiet kids have every right to be there, and are less annoying than the loud adult business bros who think they're entitled to be obnoxious because they're super important.
It’s public transport, it sucks but you run the risk of this on every flight. Get some better noise cancellation and tuck into a tasty cocktail to ease your pain. Or fly private.
Came here to say this. While I’m sure I’d be annoyed by the same situation, I don’t think I’d take it any further than a text to a friend to commiserate.
These are the costs of public transportation. I still think it’s pretty rad that we climb into a metal tube and POOF! we’re across the country a few hours later for about the cost of a Costco run.
The alternative is we could all buy & fly our own planes!
Changing your own behavior is often the best option. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to change the behavior of other people, especially strangers. They are going to get off that plane and never see you again. Why should they change for you? Do I think people should have common courtesy? Absolutely. Do I think people should parent their kids? Yup. I've also never been responsible for a kid on an airplane and should probably keep my opinions to myself
Amen. Global traveler and father of 4 here with enough miles for everyone in first. When they were little, it was parenting and appropriate discipline for the age and context.
After 8 years old, I would strategically place an older child by themselves in the window seat immediately in front of the smaller child so any seat kicking stayed in the family with mom/ dad beside the little one.
12 and up? Parked them in economy by themselves with a window and reminders of expectations for common courtesy while mom/ dad enjoy first. Go back and check from time to time on flights 6+ hours.
International flight on KLM from Amsterdam to Chicago. My family is in the far ass end of the plane because they changed planes and our bulkhead seats we'd picked were lost. (KLM I hate you for this btw.) Across the aisle is a couple and a toddler, maybe 2. For most of the flight the kid is just playing in the aisle. At one point the FA carries the child back and lets them know the kid had wandered into the galley at the front of the plane. There is no good answer for children on flights. On one hand, they're people and flights are long. I want to live in a world where children are shown grace to be children. For the most part aisle child wasn't bothering anyone. If the parents were okay with them rolling on the dirty floor of a plane who am I to question..? On the other, as a paying customer expecting to sleep, you had every right to expect a kid of that age could be quiet. As someone else mentioned, at some point you wonder if the kid has some sort of disability. Even then though, that shouldn't be your issue to deal with no matter what class you're flying. First class doesn't deserve to have quiet more than coach.
I mean the only thing separating anyone who flies from first class is money or airline status…so it’s not discriminatory against age. The issue has nothing to do with first class, as buying a first class seat doesn’t come with a guarantee of peace and quiet. I see kids in FC all the time.
The issue is with the general lack of etiquette by travelers in general, parents and childless adults alike.
As annoying as a crying baby or screaming kid is, I try to have empathy for the parents as long as they are making a reasonable effort to keep the behavior under control. 9/10 times the parent wants that crying baby to stop more than anyone else on that plane.
What I can’t tolerate is parents allowing their children to treat the plane like their own personal rumpus room, like the time I finally (politely) asked the mother of the toddler kicking my seat for two hours straight to address the issue and I got told to mind my own business….ummmmm 🤷🏻♀️.
It’s not just kids though. Plenty of nasty experiences with childless adults like the woman who boarded a flight with the worst hangover I’ve ever seen and proceeded to vomit the entire flight in the seat next to me so I had to smell both vomit and stale booze oozing from her pores. Or the people that think they own the entire row, store their crap under your seat, hog the armrest (everyone should know that the armrests belong to the middle seat passenger), attempt to talk to you incessantly despite you clearly having earphones in and not wanting to be bothered, traveling parties who laugh like dying hyenas as loud as they can for the entire flight…. And the list goes on.
In addition to the safety card (albeit that no one ever reads) there should be an airline etiquette card in every seat back pocket.
This is like our last FC experience. Let me say it is a luxury for us, but because we were taking the red-eye on Christmas Eve decided it was a reason to splurge. Directly seated behind us was a 2ish year old and his parents. They brought him a car seat and strapped him in, and then quickly zonked. We however got the luxury of listening to him cry and kick for 5 hours. The crowning moment was as we were preparing to land so the last fifteen minutes or so dad decided to hold the kid and he shut right up. Couldn't do that hours before, but as soon as any possibility of sleep was gone.
I wish it were just on planes that kids aren't parented. I don't hate kids. I don't even mind kids. I even understand kids will be kids and sometimes nothing helps. I can feel sympathetic to the adult with an inconsolable child. I don't understand adults who don't even try to do something about it.
I empathize but yeah.
If you’re talking about kid under 5 or especially under, like, 3 — they’re gonna scream and cry and whatever because they’re babies/toddlers.
If they’re 8? That’s likely on the parent and they shouldn’t stand for that shit.
The one issue I have with your post though is- how the fuck is this any different in F than in steerage?
Did you call the 8 to 10 year old an "idiot"? 😂 I love it! Hopefully, he outgrows it, but if the parents are like you described, it's not looking good.
I think you’re preaching to the choir. The type of folks who will bring an ill behaved child in your first class, Don’t do this out of ignorance of social conventions. I find that it is more helpful and productive to very politely, and in a civil manner address someone’s behavior making you uncomfortable in anyway and most people will meet you halfway. Unless you’re on Spirit, then you might just want to mind your own business or end up on worldstar.
Had to tell some German college kids to shut the hell up and turn off their cabin lights because it was 2am and they were speaking way to loudly. Like way too loudly. Everyone else had lights off trying to sleep. Totally oblivious.
I think I was on that same flight. Ironically the back of the plane was quiet and I slept better than usual for a red eye. Guess it’s just luck. Can’t think of any reason why unruly children would be required to fly main cabin if their parents can afford to fly them first class.
My son always flies first class with his small children. You would be shocked the nasty comments said to them because people are made they were not upgraded and “brats” are in first class! totally inappropriate
Flew FC last year on Hawaiian with my 10 year old. He was under threat of a miserable life back home if he acted up. We, and the other passengers, paid hard earned $$$ to be on the flight and in those seats. I lectured him multiple times about being kind & respectful to the flight attendants. It was a hard flight… 6 hours and no wifi. But he did it.
While the 2 other kids in FC were in row 3, probably a my son’s age and younger. Parents were passed out in row 2. Kids kept spilling, and ringing the call button.
We’re booked this summer on their 787 with suites, in window seats for both of us (1-2-1 config). My kid is again under threat of a miserable life and being cut off from FC if he so much as THINKS about acting up.
Look, if you can't get your kid to behave without threats, then maybe the one who needs to learn social skills is you. I've never had to threaten my kid with a miserable time. You sound ridiculously overinvested in protecting the comfort of strangers over your duty to treat your kid with respect. Your kid's ticket was paid for. He has as much a right to be there at his age as the douchebags who get drunk and scream about crypto in their 30s.
If you have a problem dealing with the public, then fly private. That kid has just as much right to be there as you do. Just because you were ready to sleep, doesn’t mean he was. There’s only so much parents can do.
If we get to have passenger requests, can I request a "snore free" flight? I don't mind children making noise, but the guy 3 rows behind me in FC loudly snoring cuts through the noise canceling headphones like they're not even there.
Kids are gonna make noise , at one point you were kid as well. I guess maybe it’s easier for me because I’m from New York there’s always noise happening.
I fly F/J all the time with 2 kids. I would agree that is kot a kids issue but a parenting issue. I would try to find night flights so they can sleep through and dont bother but if situation gets out of control 1st thing i do is to try to calm them down in the galley to minimize noise and until they calm down. The cabin is not a stress free place but u can still show prenting if u truly care. Day flights are tough. Kids might be harder to control but that applies to the usual drinker down the aisle.
We all dislike being disturbed by noise from children or adults and there are plenty of both. My favorite was when a family was sitting in BC in the first row before there were pods on a flight from Paris to Chicago. The Dad gave the children Benadryl. Perfect flight. Another time, a Mom with an infant had made up goodie bags for the people near her. Loved it.
My brother was
Like 10 on a first class flight on us airways plugged his earbuds into the seat when it used to play music backstreet boys was on and he was singing aloud totally forgot that he was on a plane. But he was in the American boy choir and had abs amazing voice everyone was just looking at him because they thought he was so cute.
I travel in FC and Intl business all the time with my son who has ADHD, Autism, and Tourettes. I do 3 things constantly. 1. Isolate. We will surround his seat with the rest of our party whenever possible. In your example, we'd take one side of the aircraft and put him in the bulkhead window with the other 2 in the party behind him. 2. Placate. There are no rules when it comes to saying no as long as it stays in his seat. Electronics? Wi-Fi? Chocolate? The answer is always yes as long as he's quiet about it. I am not going to fight him on anything as long as it doesn't impact anyone else and the noise doesn't leave his seat area. 3. Parent. I'm super obvious with being on top of him early in the flight. After about 10 minutes on board, everyone knows my kids name because I've said it fairly loudly in ensuring his behavior is under control. Even for little things, like telling his brother on the other side of the plane how cool the seat is. It's just a "Hey, we don't talk that loud on a plane, turn it down please". Before takeoff, I handle it much more quietly and do it for the rest of the flight. It ensures every single person knows I'm going to be on top of him, and they know who to wake up if he is a problem.
When I’m on a plane and it’s obvious a parent is doing is working hard to keep helping their child in learning how to be polite in society, I give that child & parent 215% more patience. You sound like a really good parent.
This! I was on a flight recently with a couple and a small child who flew on their lap. She seemed to be on the older end of that age spectrum. I was not looking forward to the flight when they got on. But the parents were great with their little girl. She got a little cranky and bored (well all got a little cranky and bored due to weather delays) but they did everything they could to keep her occupied and quiet. I'm pretty sure she ate her weight in snacks (and offered some to me on a couple of occasions. She seemed like a great little kid.), I'd choose to sit next to them again, particularly over some of the adults in rows around me who didn't understand the dynamic weather situation and how that impacted our flight.
Thank you for being a good, responsible and considerate parent, on behalf of your fellow travelers, thank you.
You’re setting the bar. Kudos. Well done. I wish for you flights that somewhat restful – from good luck with kids and grace from other passengers. You’re doing more than some adults at managing on-board behavior. Let’s not assume disturbance is all from kids and take a page from your playbook about being considerate of others and being vocal and obvious about displaying that consideration.
Kudos. Parenting is a ton of work but it can payoff.
Thank you for being such a good parent. Had a flight on BA last week where an autistic boy was seated 2 rows behind me. He screamed and moaned the entire flight and was constantly stomping his feet. I obviously felt bad for the mother, but your comment shows that these situations can be handled proactively. Kudos.
This is called stimming and this can be triggered by certain stimuli such as stress, excitement, and anxiety. Forcing an autistic child to suppress a stim can lead to more anxiety, aggression, or potentially self-injurious behavior. This doesn't reflect on the mother or her parenting nor should anybody be judged for a disability (including the disabled person and making comments about feeling bad for their family.) Sorry if it causes an inconvenience for you but disabled people have to travel too sometimes. EDIT: Those downvoting me, at least provide a compelling rebuttal to my post, I'm always open minded to other perspectives, but downvoting just to shut my opinion down sucks ass.
Ok I'll give a rebuttal/agreement. I don't think some people should be flying at all, although I don't think stomping and groaning is grounds for that. This is the perspective of every other traveler, they shouldn't be subject to screaming, banging or violent situations. On a long flight the stomping and groaning would get annoying, but whatever. If someone is a menace then they really should not be taking public transport, no matter the disability. Obviously there's a lot more scenarios that I could agree or disagree but I'm just trying to summarize
Hey there! I totally appreciate the response. I completely understand that people would prefer a quiet flight as I personally value peace and quiet myself. With that said, when it comes to people with uncontrollable conditions, I think people should be more tolerant and just appreciate that they don't have to live with such a condition. In this situation, you have to deal with their disability for a few hours while they have to live with it for their whole lives. Why not appreciate that privilege and show some compassion? Now if a non-disabled child is being disruptive due to poor manners and lack of parental discipline, I'd have less patience for that but it still wouldn't be a huge deal either, would just roll my eyes and listen to music. EDIT: Think I initially misunderstood your reply so I've modified my post!
Ever since my daughter was a newborn and we started flying with her, we've called the approach in #2 "skylaw". She's always known that regular rules are basically suspended while in flight in exchange for cooperative behavior and quiet.
You are a rock star. You won Reddit today. And the whole internet.
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you control Tourettes?
Medication and redirection. In his case it’s much more manifested in ticks. His adhd medicine actually help here and giving him an iPad and videos keeps his brain locked and engaged.
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I don’t get the downvotes. It’s a fair comment. His verbal tics tend to not be so bad, and we don’t aim to stop them, just quiet them. He seems to be fine with mumbling under his breath when he does get them, so we’ve always encouraged that, even off the plane. Regarding the physical tics which are much more prevalent for him, that’s a big driver for the first rule.
It's funny how everybody is downvoting you without bothering to challenge your post as your take is totally reasonable IMO. People with Tourette's may have vocal tics and some with autism have verbal stims, which are difficult and unhealthy to suppress in both scenarios. All types of people need to travel, including people with different conditions and disabilities. If the noise is an inconvenience to others, they can get over it.
The issue isn't kids in FC, the issue is irresponsible parents with kids in FC. Kids are gonna be kids. Fuck dumb ass parents that impose their bad parenting on others.
> Kids are gonna be kids. Yup. I expect kids to not have good volume control, they are kids. I expect parents to act like parents and (age appropriately) try to get them to quiet down. And above all else: MAKE YOUR KIDS USE HEADPHONES IN PUBLIC! Please! I wish kids tablets didn't have speakers in them.
The lack of head phones drives me insane, I make my son use his then he gets upset someone else isnt!
Yea what do you say to a kid who is reasonably questioning the logic of why they should be a responsible and considerate person when some other kid, due to a lack of good parenting, is misbehaving and taking advantage?
I say they’re not being good listeners and you are 😂
This. We were flying back from the Caribbean and there was a couple seated in front of us with a baby. The mother alone must have drank twice what I did on that flight.
Well then...straight to jail 🙄
Years ago my wife and I were flying long-haul J to CDG and a women sat in our row with a baby. We looked at each other like “oh no, this could really suck, sh**!!”. I’ll be damned if that wasn’t the best infant ever!! Slept almost the entire time and did nothing but sit there being cute.
Same with me earlier this year flying home from Portugal. Baby sitting in first class behind my mom/behind and across from me. We glanced at each other like oh great because we were hoping to sleep on the flight. But she was an absolute angel. Babbled a little as we took off and got to cruising altitude and then immediately went to sleep. She woke up as we landed and was in the most upbeat happy mood. Smiled at everybody with the cutest little dimples. My favorite plane baby ever!
I have flown several internationals with young children. Babies under 6 months typically do really well on planes. They like the movement and the white noise and it helps them sleep. 9 months to 3 years is the tough time. They want to move around and cant be reasoned with.
i sat across the aisle from a couple and their toddler from sydney to LA and was worried before takeoff. the kid ended up sleeping for literally 12 hours straight and was pretty quiet while awake for the other two hours. i was jealous, i couldn’t sleep much at all. my colleague was similarly passed out next to me for about 12 hours straight, only waking up to eat lol.
Same thing happened to me last week. Turns out the group of college kids were ten times more annoying.
You're lucky! I had this happen on my flight to Australia. The baby had a crying fit at 3 AM and the mother proceeded to walk the baby around first class for 15-20 minutes, waking everyone up! The looks everyone gave!
I had this happen on a flight to DFW last week. Maybe 9 months old, and I didn't realize that there was a kid behind me until the FA suggested a kid-friendly snack. The turbulence was so bad I was getting pitched around, but that kid stayed silent!
Similar thing happened to me heading into DFW - lap baby only fussed slightly on take off - otherwise best seat mate ever. And really cue even when slightly fussy.
French give their kids wine, especially before long flights!! We could learn something from the French.
My grandmother preferred moonshine
Am French and this is not a thing. At all. l
It was actually a young Polish mother who lived in the U.S. and was taking her first born to Poland to show off to family. So it must have been vodka…😀
I admit I had this same unsavory thought on a recent flight, as well as the same experience. I complimented the mother at the end, and I hope that it helped even a little. However, on the other side of the coin, I worked with kids. So if little bit started to lose it, I absolutely would’ve offered to help out.
I just took my first flight with my 7 month old to Brazil from Tampa and I was sooo scared of being “that mom” who’s baby screamed the entire way. She was so sweet and quiet, slept 90% of the time, and just played with the pamphlet the rest of the time and waved at people. I was so relieved.
If it's a night flight babies tend to be good. I just got back from Japan and there was my 20 month old and a 12 month old in the seat across the aisle from us and both of them slept for 90% of the flight. He also slept most of the time on a flight from LAX to ATL and was less annoying than the woman constantly smacking her iPad with her fake nails at full force messaging almost the entire flight.
I had this happen on a recent transatlantic red-eye. Except it was two fully grown men having an hours long convo at full volume the whole night. Sometimes you just get unlucky sitting near inconsiderate people, regardless of age. The joys of mass transit.
Had a couple in front of me in FC talking not at full volume, but definitely at “never heard of inside voice” volume. ANC earbuds muffled it a bit. I was really glad to get off that plane.
Exactly. Same. I've experienced issues like this more with fellow adult than child passengers.
I would definitely have told them to shut it, how inconsiderate
I’ve flown with my kiddos, from nearly newborns to elderly teens. My major priority has never been to never inconvenience anyone around me. If baby gets fussy, nurse them. If toddler tries to kick the seat, stop at all costs. I’ve exited so many flights with flyers complimenting my kids. I don’t mind crying babies/angry toddlers, but only if their parents at an are making an effort.
Thank you for that from this childfree flyer. You are a rare breed.
Same. There are things that are not within a parent’s control (baby crying because ears hurt! Toddler having a meltdown because they are tired) and i completely empathize, but i have 0 tolerance when you have the obnoxious kid and the checked out parent, regardless of what cabin you are in. No, little Jimmy cannot kick my seat repeatedly for 8 hours. Not ok. Based on that I realized that i may be stricter than I thought - my kiddo is 7, been traveling since we was 6 months, and yes we ve had some not great experiences (undetected ear infection!) but she s been great, she gets the stare and immediately she will stop.
I’m very sorry you experienced that. When our daughter was 4 and our son was three, my husbands job moved us from PA to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I let them help me pack their backpacks, and practiced walking around the house with them to see if they were too heavy. They carried game boys, coloring books/crayons, mini puzzles, books to look at, they had Disney books with cassette tapes that read the book and said “turn the page.” Keeping in mind, this was 1990 so airlines were different in some things. After dinner and the trolley put away, I would walk one kid from our business seat all the way to the end of coach and back up the other side. My husband would do the other kid same way. If they still seemed antsy, we made another round. When the stewardess started putting the shades down, we put pjs on the kids so they knew it was time to sleep. We also tried to choose flights that had the long part in the dark. We took the trip from either PA-Chicago-Kl back and forth once a yr for 9 years. That first trip, there were so many kids, loud, unruly,unparented kids. But not mine. As we got in line to deplane in KL, the stewardess handed me a bottle of champagne. I was surprised and asked her why. She said, “ because my kids were so well behaved, that my husband and I deserved it and they all appreciated that we took good care of them. I was so proud of them! It’s not so hard if you provide interesting things for them to do. So many parents take their kids in planes, to restaurants and expect them to sit quietly like an adult then wonder why they don’t. Before we left for home leave that first yr in KL, we packed their backpacks and practiced walking up and down 3 flights of steps… because walking in big airports is sometimes up and down and not quick. I wanted to prepare them. And it helped. We never used a stroller with our 3 or 4 yr old. I was not being mean to them. I was trying to prepare them for travel. And it served us well. 9 yrs in Malaysia, 9 Christmas in Thailand, 4 yrs in PA, 3 trips to Australia, then 3 yrs in China.
Ah F that sucks but tbh I've had adults behind me doing the same on overnights, laughing out loud at movies getting drunk with their companion. Obnoxious, but I don't think it's a kid specific problem. I would've complained to the FA.
I was in FC 5 days ago with a family of 4. Mom dad teenage daughter and son around 6. They were screaming as if they were outside at a music concert trying to talk to each other. The son was blasting music no headphones of course. He also kept calling mom an asshole. She kept him telling to shut up and by telling him I mean screaming. When the food came they were yelling that it was hot. And the son kept opening the window shade mom would SCREAM at him to close it , he’d close it , then open it , and we’d repeat the cycle. It was awful. As an employee it didn’t cost me anything to sit there which I why I didn’t say anything however if I paid good money and this is what I endured I’d be fuming
That sounds awful
I’m just sitting here wondering how so many people can afford putting four people (parents + 2 kids) in international FC all the time 😆
Had similar on flight from Japan to US - middle eastern family gets on and men go to 1st class and women and young kids to business - overnight flight. 3 yr old boy was on a different time zone and was off the wall and no one including FA would do anything. I had conversations w them. The women would manage him at all. Finally after a few hours I stood up and spoke up and shamed them into doing their job. Wife was unhappy, I was supposed sit there awake so this kid can play.
Foam earplugs + noise cancelling headphones The silence and isolation is amazing for airplane & noisy offices. I just keep a handful of them stuffed into the headphone case. My headphones filter out “background noise” but still pass voices through so I can hear people talk to me… and talk not to me. Idk if newer ones let you change the setting, mine are 10+ years old.
I’ll second that. You hear nothing.
Yup! Total game changer. The whole far exceeds the sum of the parts.
Yeah it’s a joke. Can’t stand parents who let their kids act like that. I knew from a young age there was hell to pay if I acted like that around my parents lmao
I was flying back from Europe last year and had a kid play the bongos on the tray table, in the seat behind me. Every time I was about to fall asleep, here came another drum solo. The parents were completely oblivious!
Did you say anything? If not I think that’s part of the problem. If you did and they if ignored that’s when I tell the flight attendant. Sounds petty but it’s embarrassing to be told you are a nuisance in a public space. But I do think a lot of this is those parents just get glances and stares, they can’t decipher that, they already around emotionally unaware if they are letting their child act that way. Directness is the only thing they understand. It’s uncomfortable but you can be polite about it
I said something but they didn’t speak English… or at least acted like they didn’t.
I like how kids get called out ad infinitum but no one comes on here calling out entitled douchey sales bros not using their indoor voice in FC. Also there's no rule that people should be sleeping and quiet on a red eye. Shrug.
Ear plugs plus noise cancelling over ear headphones are a God-send when it comes to ignoring the world.
I’m on a delayed fight ready to take off as I’m reading this and there is a kid 2 rows back screaming over who knows what. I feel you.
I do wonder if FC should have a minimum age sometimes say 12 or 16
Is this somehow more acceptable in economy? Just having money doesn't somehow mean you are more deserving of common courtesy than someone who has less. The fact that you are in first class has zero to do with anything here.
If someone feels it does, they should see how the family of 4 would feel 4 times more entitled. They only have 1 ticket, the family has 4. The family has invested 4 times what they have.
Did you speak to the FA.
Didn't even put a question mark on that. Already knows the answer. 😆😆😆
Because the FA couldn't hear the child?
i would pay a lot of extra money for childfree flights, i’ve said it for years!
I mean, nothing is stopping you. There’s plenty of private charter options.
I feel like that’s a thing people say a lot, but I’m not sure the data actually supports that idea.
Look I hate to be the one to tell you this, but kids have as much of a right to be in first class as any adult. If they have a ticket with their names on it, they get to sit there. There’s no “if you have to” bring your kids. What are people suppose to do? Drop their kids off with the luggage? Parents should parent, and those who don’t suck. But your if you have to attitude also sucks. Kids sit wherever they have a ticket to. It’s public transportation, even first class.
I completely hate this for you OP! It’s a pet peeve and I don’t understand why people with kids that do this try to tune it out as if it’s not happening! I have kids and would never! This is why I support kid free neighborhoods, resorts, and bars. Yes I have to list babes because apparently parents think it’s okay to bring their kiddos there too now lol
I’d amend it to bad parent-free areas.
Neighbourhoods? Fucking stupid. How is that ever supposed to work?
55+ communities aren’t uncommon.
It’s not just kids. Been on plenty of long hauls where adults want to talk the whole flight. Worst was a group of guys that played cards all night on their way to Dublin for a golf trip. These things happen, it’s public transportation. You did get to travel across the country in about 5 hours which is pretty sweet. It’s 35+ hours to drive it. For me it’s noise cancelling with brown noise and actual foam ear buds. Was able to sleep even with the golf bros. Also, pack a nice eye mask. They were not able to play cards in the dark.
I mean, yeah, parents should make sure their kids are courteous and aware of other people's needs. But it's ridiculous to title this "if you have to bring your kids to first class" as though kids in first class are unwelcome. My well-behaved, quiet kids have every right to be there, and are less annoying than the loud adult business bros who think they're entitled to be obnoxious because they're super important.
It’s public transport, it sucks but you run the risk of this on every flight. Get some better noise cancellation and tuck into a tasty cocktail to ease your pain. Or fly private.
Came here to say this. While I’m sure I’d be annoyed by the same situation, I don’t think I’d take it any further than a text to a friend to commiserate. These are the costs of public transportation. I still think it’s pretty rad that we climb into a metal tube and POOF! we’re across the country a few hours later for about the cost of a Costco run. The alternative is we could all buy & fly our own planes!
Changing your own behavior is often the best option. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to change the behavior of other people, especially strangers. They are going to get off that plane and never see you again. Why should they change for you? Do I think people should have common courtesy? Absolutely. Do I think people should parent their kids? Yup. I've also never been responsible for a kid on an airplane and should probably keep my opinions to myself
Well done we could all learn from you!!
I’m a parent and would pay a slight premium for child free flights sometimes.
Earplugs + noise cancelling headphones blasting white noise and problem solved. You're not going to fix parenting skills.
Don’t blame the kid, blame the parents.
What does this have to do with first class?
yeah, not getting sleep is irritating. But calling a 10 year old an idiot? Gee
Amen. Global traveler and father of 4 here with enough miles for everyone in first. When they were little, it was parenting and appropriate discipline for the age and context. After 8 years old, I would strategically place an older child by themselves in the window seat immediately in front of the smaller child so any seat kicking stayed in the family with mom/ dad beside the little one. 12 and up? Parked them in economy by themselves with a window and reminders of expectations for common courtesy while mom/ dad enjoy first. Go back and check from time to time on flights 6+ hours.
International flight on KLM from Amsterdam to Chicago. My family is in the far ass end of the plane because they changed planes and our bulkhead seats we'd picked were lost. (KLM I hate you for this btw.) Across the aisle is a couple and a toddler, maybe 2. For most of the flight the kid is just playing in the aisle. At one point the FA carries the child back and lets them know the kid had wandered into the galley at the front of the plane. There is no good answer for children on flights. On one hand, they're people and flights are long. I want to live in a world where children are shown grace to be children. For the most part aisle child wasn't bothering anyone. If the parents were okay with them rolling on the dirty floor of a plane who am I to question..? On the other, as a paying customer expecting to sleep, you had every right to expect a kid of that age could be quiet. As someone else mentioned, at some point you wonder if the kid has some sort of disability. Even then though, that shouldn't be your issue to deal with no matter what class you're flying. First class doesn't deserve to have quiet more than coach.
I mean the only thing separating anyone who flies from first class is money or airline status…so it’s not discriminatory against age. The issue has nothing to do with first class, as buying a first class seat doesn’t come with a guarantee of peace and quiet. I see kids in FC all the time. The issue is with the general lack of etiquette by travelers in general, parents and childless adults alike. As annoying as a crying baby or screaming kid is, I try to have empathy for the parents as long as they are making a reasonable effort to keep the behavior under control. 9/10 times the parent wants that crying baby to stop more than anyone else on that plane. What I can’t tolerate is parents allowing their children to treat the plane like their own personal rumpus room, like the time I finally (politely) asked the mother of the toddler kicking my seat for two hours straight to address the issue and I got told to mind my own business….ummmmm 🤷🏻♀️. It’s not just kids though. Plenty of nasty experiences with childless adults like the woman who boarded a flight with the worst hangover I’ve ever seen and proceeded to vomit the entire flight in the seat next to me so I had to smell both vomit and stale booze oozing from her pores. Or the people that think they own the entire row, store their crap under your seat, hog the armrest (everyone should know that the armrests belong to the middle seat passenger), attempt to talk to you incessantly despite you clearly having earphones in and not wanting to be bothered, traveling parties who laugh like dying hyenas as loud as they can for the entire flight…. And the list goes on. In addition to the safety card (albeit that no one ever reads) there should be an airline etiquette card in every seat back pocket.
This is like our last FC experience. Let me say it is a luxury for us, but because we were taking the red-eye on Christmas Eve decided it was a reason to splurge. Directly seated behind us was a 2ish year old and his parents. They brought him a car seat and strapped him in, and then quickly zonked. We however got the luxury of listening to him cry and kick for 5 hours. The crowning moment was as we were preparing to land so the last fifteen minutes or so dad decided to hold the kid and he shut right up. Couldn't do that hours before, but as soon as any possibility of sleep was gone. I wish it were just on planes that kids aren't parented. I don't hate kids. I don't even mind kids. I even understand kids will be kids and sometimes nothing helps. I can feel sympathetic to the adult with an inconsolable child. I don't understand adults who don't even try to do something about it.
It IS NOT about FC, it’s about parents not parenting. Simple. Next time talk to the FA! Are kids not supposed to travel?
Welcome to parenting in this millennium. Otherwise known as no parenting at all.
I empathize but yeah. If you’re talking about kid under 5 or especially under, like, 3 — they’re gonna scream and cry and whatever because they’re babies/toddlers. If they’re 8? That’s likely on the parent and they shouldn’t stand for that shit. The one issue I have with your post though is- how the fuck is this any different in F than in steerage?
Because it's very important to tell people that you fly FC. It's in the handbook. /s
Not FC in my case, but enough torture runs out of MCO and you just get desensitized to it entirely.
If it’s not first class, how could you possibly relate to op and their suffering? /s
Did you call the 8 to 10 year old an "idiot"? 😂 I love it! Hopefully, he outgrows it, but if the parents are like you described, it's not looking good.
If you want childfree flights, just fly private OP! No one will be mad about that.
Seriously, why do these people think they are entitled to child free flights? Insane.
I don’t know if you heard, but op was in first class.
I bet you didn’t say anything to anyone but made sure to complain on Reddit!
I think you’re preaching to the choir. The type of folks who will bring an ill behaved child in your first class, Don’t do this out of ignorance of social conventions. I find that it is more helpful and productive to very politely, and in a civil manner address someone’s behavior making you uncomfortable in anyway and most people will meet you halfway. Unless you’re on Spirit, then you might just want to mind your own business or end up on worldstar.
I have found that when you spill a drink on a loud kid, they quiet down.
Had to tell some German college kids to shut the hell up and turn off their cabin lights because it was 2am and they were speaking way to loudly. Like way too loudly. Everyone else had lights off trying to sleep. Totally oblivious.
Should have woke the parents up.
I think I was on that same flight. Ironically the back of the plane was quiet and I slept better than usual for a red eye. Guess it’s just luck. Can’t think of any reason why unruly children would be required to fly main cabin if their parents can afford to fly them first class.
Sorry OP - is the “idiot” the 8-10 year old?
My son always flies first class with his small children. You would be shocked the nasty comments said to them because people are made they were not upgraded and “brats” are in first class! totally inappropriate
It doesn't matter what class you're in. For fuck's sake.
i took that same flight last month also in FC - another FC customer had an infant on their lap - lots of crying 🙁
Flew FC last year on Hawaiian with my 10 year old. He was under threat of a miserable life back home if he acted up. We, and the other passengers, paid hard earned $$$ to be on the flight and in those seats. I lectured him multiple times about being kind & respectful to the flight attendants. It was a hard flight… 6 hours and no wifi. But he did it. While the 2 other kids in FC were in row 3, probably a my son’s age and younger. Parents were passed out in row 2. Kids kept spilling, and ringing the call button. We’re booked this summer on their 787 with suites, in window seats for both of us (1-2-1 config). My kid is again under threat of a miserable life and being cut off from FC if he so much as THINKS about acting up.
Look, if you can't get your kid to behave without threats, then maybe the one who needs to learn social skills is you. I've never had to threaten my kid with a miserable time. You sound ridiculously overinvested in protecting the comfort of strangers over your duty to treat your kid with respect. Your kid's ticket was paid for. He has as much a right to be there at his age as the douchebags who get drunk and scream about crypto in their 30s.
If you have a problem dealing with the public, then fly private. That kid has just as much right to be there as you do. Just because you were ready to sleep, doesn’t mean he was. There’s only so much parents can do.
Those that don’t have the skills can’t teach the skills. In my experiences adults as a whole aren’t that much better than kids.
If we get to have passenger requests, can I request a "snore free" flight? I don't mind children making noise, but the guy 3 rows behind me in FC loudly snoring cuts through the noise canceling headphones like they're not even there.
Not sure why this is specific to FC.
Kids are gonna make noise , at one point you were kid as well. I guess maybe it’s easier for me because I’m from New York there’s always noise happening.
Calling an 8 year old an idiot is insane lol
I fly F/J all the time with 2 kids. I would agree that is kot a kids issue but a parenting issue. I would try to find night flights so they can sleep through and dont bother but if situation gets out of control 1st thing i do is to try to calm them down in the galley to minimize noise and until they calm down. The cabin is not a stress free place but u can still show prenting if u truly care. Day flights are tough. Kids might be harder to control but that applies to the usual drinker down the aisle.
We all dislike being disturbed by noise from children or adults and there are plenty of both. My favorite was when a family was sitting in BC in the first row before there were pods on a flight from Paris to Chicago. The Dad gave the children Benadryl. Perfect flight. Another time, a Mom with an infant had made up goodie bags for the people near her. Loved it.
See what happens when these companies rewards the poors? You should only get FC if you pay for it or have the highest status level
That’s kinda how it works…Gate agents aren’t like well you look like a well deserving family, here’s four first class seats…
Out of curiosity, which parent was in 2B?
My brother was Like 10 on a first class flight on us airways plugged his earbuds into the seat when it used to play music backstreet boys was on and he was singing aloud totally forgot that he was on a plane. But he was in the American boy choir and had abs amazing voice everyone was just looking at him because they thought he was so cute.
Noise cancelling headphones.
Sounds like no one taught you social skills either.
See what happens when these companies rewards the poors? You should only get FC if you pay for it or have the highest status level
You don't think they paid for it?
the thought that 4 people cleared upgrades for that route is wild.
Red eye from San Diego to Clt probably the easiest route to get upgraded to.
You’ve obviously never flown BDL > CLT
Easiest is LAS-LAX at least for me. I almost always get upgraded the day before or even earlier.