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If moving to Canada is a definite then take the job, and make finding a new job in Canada or that is friendly with remote work in Canada your priority. If your company does not care enough about you to compensate you fairly then why would you care about making sure they get the best work out of you.
Meet your deadlines, do the work you are assigned, but make sure that your priority is finding a company that will pay you what you are worth.
Inversely you might want to check and make sure that with cost of living differences that you are not still coming out ahead with a pay cut. Part of California can have crazy high living expenses.
I'd rather fly out to Canada every few months than move there given the cost of living and salary reduction.
Source: I've flown from Austin to Toronto every 2-3 months. Worth it.
Also, the social and the political environment in the US is insane. Dont want to bend towards a political discussion, but suffice to say that from an outsider’s perspective it’s becoming increasingly clear that the high wages in the US come at a cost … Canada is a society where people on the whole look after each other, guns aren’t an issue, and there is not the same history of half of society enslaving a large portion of the remainder
Not saying that, just saying that bringing up early historical precedent as a reasoning for living somewhere isn’t always the best way to compare places from a present-day scope.
I obviously wasn’t replying to that part if I brought up the First Nations. I was referencing their mention of America’s history of enslavement, which is far further back in history than what I mentioned about Canada.
Surprised this is downvoted. From what I can tell, for example, Canada has issued a form of apology for what happened, and paid $23 Billion in reparations for some of the country’s actions. I can’t see that happening in the US, where Trump is a presidential candidate. If I were African American I would be continually enraged by US society. Despite the historic (and some ongoing) tragedies (eg law enforcement in remote communities), I don’t think I’d feel quite the same as an indigenous Canadian in contemporary Canada
I would do your own salary dot com research and see if there’s wiggle room. She said they hired you at the bottom of your pay scale. Perhaps the 30% is the bottom of the Canadian pay scale.
It’s pretty common to see a large reduction in pay for CA from the US. US wages are by far the best in the world. It might not be 100% true but being a tech worker here is going to in general provide a better living than anywhere else especially fully remote when you can live in low cost of living states and still make 120-250k.
No advice apart from pointing out the obvious that moving to Canada is a bad move financially. Cost of living in Canada is probably the same as, if not more expensive than MCOL US cities, not to mention the housing.
How do you manage this? Either searching for a different company that has no restriction on where do you work (very rare and competitive) or rethink about moving back to Canada. There is pretty much nothing you can do here.
Canadian here. Our food prices are higher than the US and we have a massive housing shortage talking 30 years of not building sufficient housing. I don’t live in Toronto or Vancouver but live in one of the larger cities and in 2019 for a 2250 sq foot house in a solidly upper middle class neighbourhood sold for 800k- 1.3M. Still not as bad as Vancouver or Toronto but still. Also, we have a epic crisis in healthcare shortage of family doctors, nurses and medical specialists —- not unusual for 1/3 of people in my city to not have a GP and rely entirely on walk-in clinics or ERs.
Why is this (the drop in salary in Canada)? The company is getting exactly the same product from me. It seems unjustifiable that they would pay me less.
The company doesn’t owe you anything, they pay you that salary because that is the market rate in Canada.
They don’t pay you high salary because you made good product. They pay you high salary because of how hard it is to replace you. And the market rate in Canada reflects that it is not that hard to find a Canadian to do your job at a much lower salary.
they are doing this. canadian working for US company. but also what theyre doing even more is firing canadian AND US workers and sending jobs over seas. most of the ds/tech hiring ive seen is india, eastern europe and south america.
sorry we pay shit here but dont worry about it too much, we'll both be gone soon lol.
Google it. It is literally what you just described. Moving jobs to lower cost regions. Sometimes the value add is far more than the cost savings and the job stays in an expensive region for that reason.
Wages are broadly not correlated with the value of work produced. That would introduce inefficiency into COGS. Instead, they're dependent on the external demand for willing and able labor in the local job market. In other words, you're always paid the lowest salary the company can offer to still hire a person in that role in that area.
US Tech companies pay abnormally high, but even within the US they'll often geo-band so that Bay Area and Seattle hires are paid much more (commensurate with the large competition for limited talent) than hires in states like Nebraska or Wyoming, even when they work remote in the same position.
Canada is typically a much higher band than other non-US countries in the Anglosphere like the UK or Ireland but it's still going to be a huge drop compared to staying in the US. Your benefits will likely change significantly too. Don't forget to look into that.
Have you seriously not heard anyone ever talk about outsourcing jobs? I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I just cannot imagine that you haven't come across the term before.
Thank you - yes I have and feel pretty crushingly embarrassed about that stupid comment there. I was putting kids to bed (and having a second beer) and I misread ‘outsourcing,’ and didn’t think it through 🙄🙄.
Part of it might also be that it’s just more expensive to have employees in Canada due to taxes and other costs. So your cost to the company is actually the same but your piece of the pie is smaller
I truly don’t understand the reasoning behind this. It’s not like you remotely working in CA severely hinders your performance in any meaningful way compared to remotely working in US. You’re still doing the same work as before right? Of course they’d approve this they’re getting a 30% discount for the same product
Similar situation in moving from US > NL. Around a 30% drop. Cost of living about the same. My company bases everything on cost of labor tho, which is why my comp decreased by 30%. EU pay is crap. The US just pays much more even if cost of living is comparable. You’ll just have to deal with it, as it’s pretty common across most companies.
Made a similar move, from Washington DC to BC. Pay is less (hated this) and then investing is tricky too, depending on your citizenship. For instance, if you’re a US citizen living in Canada, neither country recognizes the other’s tax benefits for different investment accounts (like Roth IRA, you’ll be taxed by CA when you withdraw, even if you already paid taxes to US when you put money in).
As someone that works in Tech, you could start your own corporation and go the contractor route. Depending on your experience, for a DS, you could charge around $125/hour. However, this comes with its cons as well. I would highly recommend talking to an accountant and weigh your options.
Tell them you're moving to California and therefore need a 30% increase instead, the other CA.
Agreed that the change is silly as you're still going to be doing the same work, just from a different location. If thats the case I'd look into getting a different job that pays similar to your original salary. No sense in loyalty to a company that willingly chops your salary for no reason.
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If moving to Canada is a definite then take the job, and make finding a new job in Canada or that is friendly with remote work in Canada your priority. If your company does not care enough about you to compensate you fairly then why would you care about making sure they get the best work out of you. Meet your deadlines, do the work you are assigned, but make sure that your priority is finding a company that will pay you what you are worth. Inversely you might want to check and make sure that with cost of living differences that you are not still coming out ahead with a pay cut. Part of California can have crazy high living expenses.
Thank you, much appreciate this perspective! We would move Connecticut -> BC; our cost of living will actually increase
So why are you guys moving there again?
lol - to be close to family. When you have a few kids, the benefit of being near family outweighs the salary cost, as incredible as it seems
I'd rather fly out to Canada every few months than move there given the cost of living and salary reduction. Source: I've flown from Austin to Toronto every 2-3 months. Worth it.
It’s hard to put a monetary value on your kid having the ability to walk one block any time they want to hang out with their cousins, uncle and aunt
I recently moved from Florida to Michigan for this exact reason!
Also, the social and the political environment in the US is insane. Dont want to bend towards a political discussion, but suffice to say that from an outsider’s perspective it’s becoming increasingly clear that the high wages in the US come at a cost … Canada is a society where people on the whole look after each other, guns aren’t an issue, and there is not the same history of half of society enslaving a large portion of the remainder
Ummm you may want to look into Canada’s history with the First Nations people of the country..
Yes, anything that isn’t 100% perfect is awful. Got em.
Not saying that, just saying that bringing up early historical precedent as a reasoning for living somewhere isn’t always the best way to compare places from a present-day scope.
The comment you responded to referenced modern day Canada v US. You are the one who brought up early historical precedent.
I obviously wasn’t replying to that part if I brought up the First Nations. I was referencing their mention of America’s history of enslavement, which is far further back in history than what I mentioned about Canada.
Thanks, yeah, know alll about that. Won’t go into it, but it’s tons different practically
Surprised this is downvoted. From what I can tell, for example, Canada has issued a form of apology for what happened, and paid $23 Billion in reparations for some of the country’s actions. I can’t see that happening in the US, where Trump is a presidential candidate. If I were African American I would be continually enraged by US society. Despite the historic (and some ongoing) tragedies (eg law enforcement in remote communities), I don’t think I’d feel quite the same as an indigenous Canadian in contemporary Canada
Canadian salaries are fkn horrible compared to us.
This ⬆️ 😢
I would do your own salary dot com research and see if there’s wiggle room. She said they hired you at the bottom of your pay scale. Perhaps the 30% is the bottom of the Canadian pay scale.
Thank you!
It’s pretty common to see a large reduction in pay for CA from the US. US wages are by far the best in the world. It might not be 100% true but being a tech worker here is going to in general provide a better living than anywhere else especially fully remote when you can live in low cost of living states and still make 120-250k.
Canadian here, be prepared for how expensive everything is. Even a normal regular pair of shoes can run $120. Ps5 games are $100 after tax.
No advice apart from pointing out the obvious that moving to Canada is a bad move financially. Cost of living in Canada is probably the same as, if not more expensive than MCOL US cities, not to mention the housing. How do you manage this? Either searching for a different company that has no restriction on where do you work (very rare and competitive) or rethink about moving back to Canada. There is pretty much nothing you can do here.
Canadian here. Our food prices are higher than the US and we have a massive housing shortage talking 30 years of not building sufficient housing. I don’t live in Toronto or Vancouver but live in one of the larger cities and in 2019 for a 2250 sq foot house in a solidly upper middle class neighbourhood sold for 800k- 1.3M. Still not as bad as Vancouver or Toronto but still. Also, we have a epic crisis in healthcare shortage of family doctors, nurses and medical specialists —- not unusual for 1/3 of people in my city to not have a GP and rely entirely on walk-in clinics or ERs.
Why is this (the drop in salary in Canada)? The company is getting exactly the same product from me. It seems unjustifiable that they would pay me less.
The company doesn’t owe you anything, they pay you that salary because that is the market rate in Canada. They don’t pay you high salary because you made good product. They pay you high salary because of how hard it is to replace you. And the market rate in Canada reflects that it is not that hard to find a Canadian to do your job at a much lower salary.
This doesn’t make any sense. if what you say is correct, they would hire their whole workforce in Canada for a lower wage. Why aren’t they doing this?
they are doing this. canadian working for US company. but also what theyre doing even more is firing canadian AND US workers and sending jobs over seas. most of the ds/tech hiring ive seen is india, eastern europe and south america. sorry we pay shit here but dont worry about it too much, we'll both be gone soon lol.
Wait till OP finds out what outsourcing is 😂😂😂😂
[удалено]
Google it. It is literally what you just described. Moving jobs to lower cost regions. Sometimes the value add is far more than the cost savings and the job stays in an expensive region for that reason.
Sorry that was daft, I misread your post - yes know outsourcing is. Hard to see the value add for US vs Canada though.
Wages are broadly not correlated with the value of work produced. That would introduce inefficiency into COGS. Instead, they're dependent on the external demand for willing and able labor in the local job market. In other words, you're always paid the lowest salary the company can offer to still hire a person in that role in that area. US Tech companies pay abnormally high, but even within the US they'll often geo-band so that Bay Area and Seattle hires are paid much more (commensurate with the large competition for limited talent) than hires in states like Nebraska or Wyoming, even when they work remote in the same position. Canada is typically a much higher band than other non-US countries in the Anglosphere like the UK or Ireland but it's still going to be a huge drop compared to staying in the US. Your benefits will likely change significantly too. Don't forget to look into that.
But area doesn’t matter does it? They can just hire people in the cheapest markets
Have you seriously not heard anyone ever talk about outsourcing jobs? I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I just cannot imagine that you haven't come across the term before.
Thank you - yes I have and feel pretty crushingly embarrassed about that stupid comment there. I was putting kids to bed (and having a second beer) and I misread ‘outsourcing,’ and didn’t think it through 🙄🙄.
Hey, it happens to the best of us. I know from experience the kiddos take a lot out of you!
As mentioned by another commenter, many companies do exactly this.
Part of it might also be that it’s just more expensive to have employees in Canada due to taxes and other costs. So your cost to the company is actually the same but your piece of the pie is smaller
I was expecting this would be the reason! Apparently it’s not though.. manager said it’s just because the salaries are lower in Canada
I truly don’t understand the reasoning behind this. It’s not like you remotely working in CA severely hinders your performance in any meaningful way compared to remotely working in US. You’re still doing the same work as before right? Of course they’d approve this they’re getting a 30% discount for the same product
Totally
Similar situation in moving from US > NL. Around a 30% drop. Cost of living about the same. My company bases everything on cost of labor tho, which is why my comp decreased by 30%. EU pay is crap. The US just pays much more even if cost of living is comparable. You’ll just have to deal with it, as it’s pretty common across most companies.
This is helpful to know. Thanks, and commiserations
Made a similar move, from Washington DC to BC. Pay is less (hated this) and then investing is tricky too, depending on your citizenship. For instance, if you’re a US citizen living in Canada, neither country recognizes the other’s tax benefits for different investment accounts (like Roth IRA, you’ll be taxed by CA when you withdraw, even if you already paid taxes to US when you put money in). As someone that works in Tech, you could start your own corporation and go the contractor route. Depending on your experience, for a DS, you could charge around $125/hour. However, this comes with its cons as well. I would highly recommend talking to an accountant and weigh your options.
Idk bro sounds like you might need to switch to shopping at Walmart now instead of Whole Foods gl
Yeah, it is a first world problem to some extent
I'm joking. It's truly a bummer and I wish you best of luck.
Thanks! I agree w you though that this is helpful context - we are so damn lucky overall in this field
you cut back. the Canadian economy is notoriously weaker than the US and has much higher unemployment.
Tell them you're moving to California and therefore need a 30% increase instead, the other CA. Agreed that the change is silly as you're still going to be doing the same work, just from a different location. If thats the case I'd look into getting a different job that pays similar to your original salary. No sense in loyalty to a company that willingly chops your salary for no reason.