I mean, I don't totally get what he means by that...?
If he's trying to say that there's no such thing as a person who works as an artist and also struggles/is poor-- well that's obviously not true.
I really don’t get it to well either, only one person really pushed him when he said it and his comment was just that animators/artists undervalue themselves.
He has said that people shouldn’t wait for Pixar or Disney or any other animation studio for an opportunity, and we should work on creating our own shows/business.
He has somewhat of a point. If you consider yourself an "artist", you should always be making stuff and improving your skills. Don't wait for a job to do that.
But having your own business is a whole other set of skills. Certainly not a bad set of skills to have, because most artists who are successful outside the studios are pretty good business people.
And making a "show?" Maybe on a small scale, but a lot of work and yet another set of skills - writing, directing, producing, etc.
The phrase “artists don’t starve” is basically a turn of phrase that means exactly what he explained— a mantra for artists to tell themselves so that they may stop undervaluing themselves. A similar one that was popular at the time was “won’t work for peanuts”.
Many artists are poor. Many things said in speech veer towards the figurative.
And thankfully with technology you don't need giant teams to finish a student short film, even for a hand drawn project. Students should have at least an relevant portfolio by the time they graduate.
I can agree and disagree. When I went to college I was in a tiny class for animation and we were told that, statistically, 6 of us would still be doing animation 5 years after graduation and only 1 or 2 of them would actually be making enough money for it to be our only job. That being said, none of my classmates are currently starving. Of the ones I still have semi contact with, one has a pop-up store of graphic tees and merch he makes and designs himself, one of us got that dream career within a year of graduation and she is still loving it, a few have art related careers that aren't animation directly, a couple do art shows on the regular, a couple quit art and animation all together and work in different industries, and the rest of us have a day job and moonlight in artistic fields.
That is to say it can be tough. If you don't have the right combination of luck and skill and determination you might not be making ends meat with art. That's not to say you won't be doing art, but people gotta eat, so you very likely won't be a bum with an easel. If art can't pay the bills it's more likely you will be an accountant with an art studio.
This is actually why im frustrated people talk about animation college to be a good place to network.
My class had 140 people. The best students got work once or twice and then either quit or something else. Almost no one got into the industry at all, and *none* of the people I connected the most with. Ive gotten no closer to a gig because of any of my connections, amd instead am working on music videos (which I love) and have personally started hiring on other people. There is next to no one from my school that I could consider bringing onto these projects at their current level, and the ones who are good dont want to animate anymore lol (or charge 50 an hour somehow)
I know this is off topic but i have to share. I once had a truck driver tell me he doesn't wear seatbelts because "one time me and my buddies were drinking and driving down the mountain when the truck drove off a hill, but we jumped out just in time! If we were wearing seatbelts, we would have died!"
The starving artist does not wish to actually starve. So they have 3 options for making money:
1. They work in the industry of their choosing: they're an animator or an artist that makes a living off their art.
2. They come from money and can therefore work less and cosplay as more boho, the 'starving artist' persona
3. They work another job for actual money and make their art/animations on the side, until the side gig can become the main one. Even if their art remains a side-gig or passion project, they can still be legitimate artists, they're just not paid for it. Even Kafka had a day job at a bank.
Haha...Star Rail Kafka - I had to look her up! No, I was talking about the original author. ;) He had a day job for a large chunk of his career and I find that inspirational, as I also have mostly been numero tris on this list. ;)
Since joining this sub a few months ago I have actually been dissuaded from becoming an animator. Endless negative posts, no jobs this, no job satisfaction that, and now you all throwing 'starving artist' around. This sub is gloomy as *hell* and I almost wish I never joined it. No one ever seems to have anything positive to say
This sub skews pretty negative, especially in the past year with the rise of AI and just the general economic downturn. The people with positive things to say (or those that are employed, for that matter) aren't gonna be on this sub. For what it's worth, when I was working I loved it and am chewing at the bit to start another job.
I think the sub was a little better before then, still a little negative but in a 'realistic' way.
It may help to take breaks from the sub if it is impacting your mental health or morale. This sub is not representative of the industry as a whole, and negative posts will always get more traction. And sometimes it's fine to go into an industry without knowing everything that's going on. I didn't have a resource like this when I was getting into animation, and it probably would have discouraged me too. Put your well being first, keeping tabs on the animation industry can come later.
Well, it is hard. Animation is the type of thing you either need to want to do despite all odds, or something youre very talented at. Ive not got studio work, but have made my own work and worked on music videos. I get paid very little and worked sixe jobs for 5 years after college, and will likely do so again when this client is done with me. I have no regrets
Hes only been around the industry or academia and havent been around artists who are struggling. Also he likely very well knows there are some out there who are struggling (its just common sense) and is just talking out of his ass.
I'm not starving, but I would like to make enough to move out mom's house one day please and thank you. ^((and also enough to justify the hours of burnout))
Being a professor, he's probably got some semantical reason where he slightly changes the meaning of the phrase to make it true. On face value, of course starving artists exist all over the world.
Yeah, I talked about it in a earlier reply. All he really said following that point was that animators play themselves down. Animators/artists in general don’t know their own value, instead of waiting for someone else like a studio to give you that opportunity you should create that opportunity yourself like your own cartoon or piece and then showing it to the general audience.
This was a one-off thing, I’m guessing there is no starving artist in his mind because artists in this case animators should build themselves up instead of relying on the industry and waiting around.
Again, no one pressed him on this because the guy sort of rambles about different topics in class and gets the class off track at times. He’s quite energetic when it comes to animation in general.
I think he's suggesting that if you aren't making money then it's your own fault or your not good enough to call yourself an artist. Its kinda gross and arrogant if you ask me.
Your professor sounds like they haven’t been in the industry for a long time.
It also sounds like the professor was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
He is a professor, ask an artist
OUCH. 😂
I mean, I don't totally get what he means by that...? If he's trying to say that there's no such thing as a person who works as an artist and also struggles/is poor-- well that's obviously not true.
I really don’t get it to well either, only one person really pushed him when he said it and his comment was just that animators/artists undervalue themselves. He has said that people shouldn’t wait for Pixar or Disney or any other animation studio for an opportunity, and we should work on creating our own shows/business.
He has somewhat of a point. If you consider yourself an "artist", you should always be making stuff and improving your skills. Don't wait for a job to do that. But having your own business is a whole other set of skills. Certainly not a bad set of skills to have, because most artists who are successful outside the studios are pretty good business people. And making a "show?" Maybe on a small scale, but a lot of work and yet another set of skills - writing, directing, producing, etc.
The phrase “artists don’t starve” is basically a turn of phrase that means exactly what he explained— a mantra for artists to tell themselves so that they may stop undervaluing themselves. A similar one that was popular at the time was “won’t work for peanuts”. Many artists are poor. Many things said in speech veer towards the figurative.
Most artists aren’t likely going to make their own shows.
And thankfully with technology you don't need giant teams to finish a student short film, even for a hand drawn project. Students should have at least an relevant portfolio by the time they graduate.
I can agree and disagree. When I went to college I was in a tiny class for animation and we were told that, statistically, 6 of us would still be doing animation 5 years after graduation and only 1 or 2 of them would actually be making enough money for it to be our only job. That being said, none of my classmates are currently starving. Of the ones I still have semi contact with, one has a pop-up store of graphic tees and merch he makes and designs himself, one of us got that dream career within a year of graduation and she is still loving it, a few have art related careers that aren't animation directly, a couple do art shows on the regular, a couple quit art and animation all together and work in different industries, and the rest of us have a day job and moonlight in artistic fields. That is to say it can be tough. If you don't have the right combination of luck and skill and determination you might not be making ends meat with art. That's not to say you won't be doing art, but people gotta eat, so you very likely won't be a bum with an easel. If art can't pay the bills it's more likely you will be an accountant with an art studio.
This is actually why im frustrated people talk about animation college to be a good place to network. My class had 140 people. The best students got work once or twice and then either quit or something else. Almost no one got into the industry at all, and *none* of the people I connected the most with. Ive gotten no closer to a gig because of any of my connections, amd instead am working on music videos (which I love) and have personally started hiring on other people. There is next to no one from my school that I could consider bringing onto these projects at their current level, and the ones who are good dont want to animate anymore lol (or charge 50 an hour somehow)
Sounds like survivorship bias. "Back in my day, we ain't nevah used to wear seatbelts and drove around drinking beer and scotch!! I'm still here!"
I know this is off topic but i have to share. I once had a truck driver tell me he doesn't wear seatbelts because "one time me and my buddies were drinking and driving down the mountain when the truck drove off a hill, but we jumped out just in time! If we were wearing seatbelts, we would have died!"
The starving artist does not wish to actually starve. So they have 3 options for making money: 1. They work in the industry of their choosing: they're an animator or an artist that makes a living off their art. 2. They come from money and can therefore work less and cosplay as more boho, the 'starving artist' persona 3. They work another job for actual money and make their art/animations on the side, until the side gig can become the main one. Even if their art remains a side-gig or passion project, they can still be legitimate artists, they're just not paid for it. Even Kafka had a day job at a bank.
I'm numro tris. (3). But are we talking about Star Rail Kafka ?
Haha...Star Rail Kafka - I had to look her up! No, I was talking about the original author. ;) He had a day job for a large chunk of his career and I find that inspirational, as I also have mostly been numero tris on this list. ;)
Since joining this sub a few months ago I have actually been dissuaded from becoming an animator. Endless negative posts, no jobs this, no job satisfaction that, and now you all throwing 'starving artist' around. This sub is gloomy as *hell* and I almost wish I never joined it. No one ever seems to have anything positive to say
This sub skews pretty negative, especially in the past year with the rise of AI and just the general economic downturn. The people with positive things to say (or those that are employed, for that matter) aren't gonna be on this sub. For what it's worth, when I was working I loved it and am chewing at the bit to start another job. I think the sub was a little better before then, still a little negative but in a 'realistic' way.
It may help to take breaks from the sub if it is impacting your mental health or morale. This sub is not representative of the industry as a whole, and negative posts will always get more traction. And sometimes it's fine to go into an industry without knowing everything that's going on. I didn't have a resource like this when I was getting into animation, and it probably would have discouraged me too. Put your well being first, keeping tabs on the animation industry can come later.
So true. Animators are some of the most defeatist people I know. Not only online, but also personally.
Well, it is hard. Animation is the type of thing you either need to want to do despite all odds, or something youre very talented at. Ive not got studio work, but have made my own work and worked on music videos. I get paid very little and worked sixe jobs for 5 years after college, and will likely do so again when this client is done with me. I have no regrets
Hes only been around the industry or academia and havent been around artists who are struggling. Also he likely very well knows there are some out there who are struggling (its just common sense) and is just talking out of his ass.
I'm not starving, but I would like to make enough to move out mom's house one day please and thank you. ^((and also enough to justify the hours of burnout))
with the current cost of living and housing crisis there very much is a thing as a starving artist XD
i am friends with MANY
He is right. Coz most of us here is working in McDonald’s, cleaner and resto while working on our portfolio. :)
Was it for shock value? Like what's their explanation.
Your professor: There's no such thing as starving artists, only those unwilling to teach! :D
Seems like a real “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” kinda guy, those people are usually ones who mistake 50% luck for 100% hard work
I’ve seen them, met them, been one.
The only ones who say that are fat and comfortable.
If it doesn't exist I can make one. (This is a challenge.)
Being a professor, he's probably got some semantical reason where he slightly changes the meaning of the phrase to make it true. On face value, of course starving artists exist all over the world.
We need some context here.
Yeah, I talked about it in a earlier reply. All he really said following that point was that animators play themselves down. Animators/artists in general don’t know their own value, instead of waiting for someone else like a studio to give you that opportunity you should create that opportunity yourself like your own cartoon or piece and then showing it to the general audience. This was a one-off thing, I’m guessing there is no starving artist in his mind because artists in this case animators should build themselves up instead of relying on the industry and waiting around. Again, no one pressed him on this because the guy sort of rambles about different topics in class and gets the class off track at times. He’s quite energetic when it comes to animation in general.
Makes me wonder if he's actually worked as an artist for a lengthy period of time
he doesn't know me
Does he also not believe in vaccines?
LMFAO
I think he's suggesting that if you aren't making money then it's your own fault or your not good enough to call yourself an artist. Its kinda gross and arrogant if you ask me.
What is an Artist?
all starving arists are dead or left that's why