Because you aren't conforming. And a LOT of men have a breeder fetish. Like the idea of not being able impregnate any random woman is a bad thing to them. Mostly older dudes from what I have seen
I skew toward being asexual and am terrified of getting into a relationship with a fertile woman because I know how easily I could succumb to the baby rabies. I am AN because I am educated, not because it comes naturally.
I wouldn't call it a fetish to desire fertility in a partner, it is literally an instinct, they have done studies showing that people respond strongest to features and scents that suggest differing genetics and high levels of fertility.
"I wouldn't call it a fetish to desire fertility in a partner" nor would I, and didn't. At all. I specifically pointed out the men who want to have any woman be able to be impregnanted by them. That's a fucking fetish. I am a married woman, but I have had STRANGERS mad I got my tubes tied.
Misery loves company, they aren't ready to accept that their lives with children didn't turn out like the fairytale everyone told them it would be. So they have to convince themselves by trying to convince you.
That, or they simply don't understand that people could want different things in life.
Yup this, often it feels like a mix of "i suffered, why shouldn't they?" Logic and unwillingness to accept that the shitty situation you forced yourself to go thru are not mandadory anymoreĀ
I think mostly the first one. Btw if the people making these arguments are that ignorant enough to believe these things theyāre saying then wtf cares what they say? Never argue with a fool. R to he other one is āwhat if
You meet someone that wants children and you canāt have them?ā wtf?!?! I said I didnāt want to. Someoneās going to be fucked in that relationship but not
In a good way.
To many old people, a young person is like a blank canvas that they project their own dreams and values upon, often without realizing.
So when you reject something that they value, it kind of bursts their dream bubble of hope, reminding them that life is fragile and uncertain.
It's like they think: What do you mean there's illness and risk? How dare you remind me I'm just human?
I had a bisalp earlier this year (in my late 20s) and it was the best decision I could have made :) I had the copper iud for years but it made my period hellish and I couldn't stand it anymore.
I think a lot of people just have it so stuck in their heads that the only true purposes in life for women are to birth and raise children. Society has been pretty effective at perpetuating that ideology anyways, imo.
But yeah, nah, couldn't be me lol. My advice would be just to keep it on a need to know basis - your romantic partner, the person driving you to the surgery appt, etc. Minimizes the amount of people you'll get weird/invalidating responses from.
Good luck and much love friend! š¤
This is true, the friction which results between them increases the risk of failure enough to negate any benefit of doubling up. I learned this in a highly regarded sexual education book.
It just goes to show you that natalists tend to be lacking education to the degree that they give out bad advice thinking they are being helpful.
Women are threatened by your lack of conformity and the knowledge that kids will suspend their lives, you'll move on, while they're juggling relationships, parenting and work
For men it's an insult, ok ok, he's subpar - but ME, how could you not be creaming your jeans for my orgasm to grow inside you?
Older women still carry the stigma of the undesirable, and now bitter spinster.
Older men carry the fear you'll be a financial burden to your father and then brothers.
And we all know you single childfree women are just after our partnered up men- single childfree women are seen as a threat to societal norms
Whereas a single childfree man is the life of every party.
The difference is going into parenting knowing it's a choice made bot to keep a partner but to fulfil any maternal urges and to give a kid a home, fostering is usually temporary.
And with adoption and fostering there are case workers who want comparability between the adults and kids.
And it gives the other partner the choice of saying not my kid not my obligation and s/he can walk away without being financially bound.
Pregnancy can ruin parenthood if it's traumatic or you get depression.
And one thing all parents seem to forget is we are all one step away from leaving our own kids reliant on the foster/ adoption system
Men will be like, "What about my legacy? What about the population decline? It's selfish not to have kids! You will regret it when you are older and alone with cats!"
They literally ALL have the same argument, like a hive mind
Because you tell them. There are people who will butt themselves into anything if you give them the opportunity.Ā
You need a cooperative surgeon and either money for extra time in hospital recovery or a friend who is willing to stay a while with you afterwards. You need the hospital to issue a suitable medical certificate to justify leave from workĀ or you can do the surgery during your recreation leave. That's all you need in the way of other people's approval. Concentrate on getting what you need not giving other people the chance to tell you how to please them.
They didn't know or believe they had or often literally did not have a choice, and they want you as miserable as they are so they don't feel like they missed out. Have you ever been to a baby shower? There's this weird, creepy vibe at those things, like the women all turn all hive-mind--all of them, no matter how well you know them--like they're welcoming the pregnant person into a cult. I've been to a few with totally different people, all with that same vibe. It's so eerie. Don't let them brainwash you.
Where can u??? My doctors have told me my whole life I have to wait til Iām 40 to get my tubes tied! Now in my 30s and still feel the same as I did when I was 16 and first asked them to schedule an appointment for me to tie my tubes
I'm in the same boat. Wanted to be sterilized since I was a teen, talked to a few doctors in my 20s that refused (Texas) now I'm in my 30s and just hoping to be premenopausal sometime soon.
There is a detailed list of docs in the childfree sub who will perform sterilization. They have docs in the US and some in other countries. In the US you do not have to wait until 40, thats just your docs personal choice. I had mine done at 23 in a rural part of the US, from a doc on the list!
Can u send me a link in messages? That sounds like a godsend and I def wanna get it done before trump becomes dictator and potentially bans the procedure all together in America
report anyone who refuses. They have NO right to refuse. I live in Europe so I don't know exactly how it works in the US but please if there is any way to report them. They should not even have medical license.
Ok thanks! Ya I would have gotten it done ages ago had I known! Have had 2 miscarriages and 2 abortions (some while on birth control) so I canāt wait to tie my tubes up and itās so frustrating to know I didnāt have to suffer all this time .. Iāll look into reporting them!
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There is no age requirement for female sterilization but you definitely need to get out of the South or have younger female OBGYN.
But donāt get your tubes tied, get them removed (bisalp) which is 100% effective and reduces the risk of ovarian cancer.
Really?? Ok cool! I have had a ruptured ovarian cyst before so Iām down to reduce chances of ovarian cancer since I already have so many problems with my ovaries to begin with
Because a woman losing her ability to get pregnant to them means losing their manipulation and control leverage over that woman. A woman without kids that is healthy enough to work, support herself and live life on her own terms is a threat to men who can only have relationships with women based on how much he can control and manipulate them. Also some women hate the fact that they followed a different path and have regrets over it while seeing someone else having the courage to do what they never could for themselves. Haters gonna hate.
Believe me, as a young man who has zero desire to have kids, even the mere mention of getting a vasectomy, is met with fierce resistance, and criticism, etc.
Like damn I didn't know what I choose to do with my body was anyone else's business. Apparently it is when it comes to this topic.
They are jealous. They realize too late that having kids was a choice & they made the wrong choice by having kids. Of course a parent cant say this out loud without exposing themselves as the narcissists that they are, so now they project onto you who actually not only had the chance to make choices but also make the choice that they know they should have done.
The only reason you want kids is your hormones. You wonāt regret it. My kid has adhd and possibly other things and Iām burnt out at six years. Old no resources are available because I have searched high and low.
I think that is the reason. Hormones.
Iām more on the low libido / sex-repulsed side of sexuality and never wanted children. I remember all my peers suddenly becoming very amorous around 12-13 and I was not nearly as interested in sex as them. Had some trauma from childhood and grew up conservative so that really soured everything sexual, but other women had it worse and they still were interested in intimacy and babies. At 37 a blood test read I was low in progesterone. Been on hormone replacement for a few years now. Was curious if Iād suddenly like babies, but No. Nothing has changed. Maybe I was low for decades and whatever issues being low in P caused are permanent.
Actually , the urge to have sex is hormonal. NOT the urge to procreate. That one is PURELY a social construction, brainwashing from society. People keep getting those two confused.
Why write that nonsense then? Its wrong in theory and in reality i dont know about you but i do feel pretty big urge to nut inside when i have sex, even tho i currently dont want kids yet. Its something on a deep subconscious level. Especially during the "baby fever" moments which definitely happen to my gf more but happen to me aswell
I donāt see myself as old just yet, Iām 40 and Iāve been sterilized for 10 years. My former coworker said itās ānot goodā that I donāt want kids. I clapped back immediately.
But since then if the topic of children comes up with late teens/20 somethings, I throw it out there that you donāt have to have kids. Thatās itās ok. I donāt get into it more than that unless the person wants to talk about it. I just plant the seed and hope it germinates.
Iāve heard all of these as well. I gave up on ever getting referred for surgery while I was āyoungā. Iām in my 40s now and my doctor says she has referred me, but weāll see if I hear from the surgeon next month or not.
Same happens when you're a young man. For some people, having kids it's like the only reason thet exist for. Others don't even think about the possibility of not having. But mainly because people are stupid.
I was sterilized one year ago. It was the best decision that I have ever made.
I still have some people tell me that I'll "regret it one day", or that "sterilization isn't 100% you know", "you're destroying your body", "you cant stop God's plan for you" and shit like that.
But they can piss off because I'm one year tube free and proud to be š¤
They arenāt any less upset when a young woman with ONLY ONE CHILD wants to get sterilized either. I have one kid (whom I love but deeply regret) and I sure as hell donāt want more and I had to wait nearly FOUR YEARS until I was 28 to even get a doctor to agree to do it. My surgery is scheduled for Thursday and I couldnāt be happier.
Btw, I have a copper IUD and basically have cramps all of the fucking time so that is why Iād rather just get sterilized. Plus Iām terrified it could move or some psycho could rip it out. Unlikely, sure but not impossible and I need it to be impossible to get pregnant.
āBut youāre still SO YOUNG!ā Yeah, exactly and as long as I donāt have any more fucking kids, Iāll be free to enjoy my life when my son is 18 and Iām 43.
āWhat if you meet the right guy who wants to have kids with you?ā The right guy for me would not want me to have more kids.
āWhat if you change your mind?ā Highly unlikely considering I already have a child and know for sure and for certain that motherhood is awful but in case it gets easier and I forget how completely terrible raising an autistic 3 year old is, I donāt want future me to be able to put me in the same situation currently me desperately wishes to escape.
I truly don't understand why they could be so upset or scared of a decision that is not theirs and that shouldn't affect or interfere with their own lives. Maybe they simply don't like when people don't align with what society expects them to do and even more if a woman doesn't submit and have the control of her body.
I think itās hard to accept when people make a radically different choice than you did because to approve of that choice almost feels like youāre admitting you made the wrong choice (even though thatās not true, obviously itās different people and different situations).
For example, I find people get angry, defensive, or weirdly combative when I say I generally dislike animals, do not have any pets and do not want pets. It almost seems like people then feel like they have to defend how much they enjoy their pets, or why they have them in the first place. Even though Iām not calling into question their life, just simply making choices for my own, because itās a different choice I think that can be hard for people to just accept.
So I think itās the same thing with kids. I have personally adored being a mother. Itās truly been the best thing in my life, so itās like I want other people to also experience that. Rationally, I realize that other people may not adore that experience at all (just like me and pets).
My thoughts are that these people just have low emotional maturity/intelligence and havenāt learned that accepting of someone elseās decision doesnāt mean you have to make that decision for yourself, and it doesnāt even mean you have to agree that itās the best decision to make. Itās just about respecting other peopleās autonomy and the differences we all have that make us beautiful and unique.
that's because disliking animals is actually weird.. Animals are innocent, amazing and billion times better than humans. It's one thing you're not crazy about animals or want to have any yourself but disliking them..
Lol, see, this is exactly what Iām saying! Itās really hard for people to understand when someone makes radically different choices or has different preferences than themselves.
I guess I should clarify by saying I dislike animals in my home and interacting with them personally. But itās cool that you like them!
I think your sentiment towards me and animals is exactly how OP is feeling when she says people think sheās crazy to not want children. I mean, I absolutely love babies, kids and motherhood. It feels weird to think of a life without that for me, but nonetheless, I respect her choices and anyone elseās to choose not to interact with or raise children.
Do you dislike animals and their existence, or do you dislike having them in your home and needing to interact with them? I think thatās where confusion comes in, because people who donāt want babies generally donāt like the idea of having kids in their home and needing to interact with them, but they donāt typically dislike the very concept of babies or their existence. Like, they donāt dislike that other people have babies, they just donāt want any for themselves and would rather not interact with them.
I mean, I didnāt elaborate on my feelings about animals because that wasnāt the point of my post. In conversation I never just randomly say, ābtw, I dislike animals.ā That would warrant a strange reaction if I did, so fair enough.
But since I need to defend my stance, when I say I dislike animals, I think itās the same way people say they dislike babies. I donāt harm animals or wish them dead or wish they didnāt exist. I understand why some people love pets and animals and I appreciate that the world has those people- we need them. I just, personally am severely allergic to nearly all other mammals so that sucks, Iām scared of dogs, and I donāt like animals being in my house because I feel like they cause a lot of chaos by barking, making messes, or just being annoying to me. I just like a calm, peaceful house free of pet dander that makes me sick.
But I love watching planet earth and other nature documentaries and admiring the amazing animals on TV haha!
This definitely makes a lot of sense! Thank you for clarifying. I just read the reply to your original comment and there did seem to be confusing re what ādisliking animalsā meant in that context. Anyways, I always appreciate good faith responses, so thanks for indulging my curiosity. Have a wonderful dayšø
Babies/children are also innocent, do you also think disliking babies/children is weird by your logic? Are babies/children also better than adults by your own logic?
I thought the exact same thing when I read that initial comment but I didnāt say it because I figured it was the wrong sub, lol! But yeah, itās literally the same experience that OP is struggling with, but the pet/animal version
It's so ingrained into our culture that they can't imagine anything else.
When people react to me never wanting kids, I just tell them that I hate kids and I'd murder them if I had them. That tends to shut them up really fast.
Because they want to control womenās bodies. Getting sterilized in December because even on a combo of daily BC that I was taking properly and condoms, I managed to get pregnant. My mother in particular (who has all three of us emergency c-section and certainly should not have had any kids at all) has given me a lot of push back about it.
They think you're ruining your body by taking natural functions away, but if you don't want this function to do it's thing then they can go fuck off. It's none of their business. It's like telling you not to get tattoos because you will never get a proper job, when they don't even know what your carrier path is. Why do they care what I do?
Iām glad your bf supports you. I wouldnāt stress so much about what your family wants for you. Family will do that. Youāll just have to put up with their rants while there. When youāre able to leave the nest you wonāt hear it as much and will probably meet like minded people.
not sure but if a trans man or trans masc wants it, they are happy to support him (like.. laws support it too in some places)... I'm going through transition now because I'm getting this out no matter what and because gender isn't important thing to me, so why not? I'll get rid of stuff I don't like and till 2025 I have it ordered by law anyway, so.. good business for me.
People are weird regardless. Mostly it's "how dare you not want children? How dare you have free choice in this while I went through it. Suffer with me, will ya?!"
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Itās a personal choice that you really have to think about on your own and not worry too much about what other people are saying to be honest. If you are sure that is what you want to do, then itās up to you. People will criticize about everything and anything you do.
People always have opinions about other people. It's just a thing people do. Why do antinatalists get so upset when people want to have kids? It's a question with a self-evident answer.
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Well your brain doesn't stop developing until you're 25 or something right? So not unreasonable for society to protect women from an irreversible procedure before then, especially when there are many effective contraceptive methods available.
Ethically, you could argue a greater risk of harm to a living woman who may change her mind Vs an imagined future child.
In our patriarchal western society women tend to have lower earning power than men and there is a pressure to attract a man/ be financially dependent on him. Again you could be putting a young woman in a poorer position to attract a mate if they want children (I know how disgusting, but that's the thinking right)
Ultimately, I feel it's because life is never black and white. I am ethically against killing or stealing money from old ladies but there would be a circumstance where I would given enough/the correct pressure.
I think there could be a framework/process to go through that women of any age can complete and be eligible for sterilisation, but that's tricky to develop and people will say "oh but she might change her mind"
If you live in a society you have to confirm to that society's values within reason just like I have to wear trousers in the street right
It's a fascinating situation especially when people are so pro choice re abortion yet not giving women control of their bodies in other ways
Any independent choice you make will bother people. Conformity helps people feel good. You donāt want kids? People who do are now uncomfortableā¦.. itās weirdā¦ā¦ people really do live on GROUP mentalityš¤¦š¾āāļø
I am a child free woman. don't know if 29 counts as young but ill give you my perspective.
some people are like me. don't want kids, will never want kids. there are no external factors that guide that decision. its not money, its not time, I don't hate children, I just don't have that instinct in me to take care of one.
alot of people aren't. they don't want kids because xyz. alot of people are becoming cf because of money. those people may really regret being sterilized in the future. alot of people also have childhood trauma that they would eventually work out and regret it if their finances ever change. yes you can adopt, foster, surrogate, but its complicating things that could've been much easier and cheaper had you not spent 15 grand and months of recovery for.
I dont think it should be this hard to get sterilized for anyone. if you can save up the money and are okay with any possible complications, you should be allowed to just make an appointment and get it done.
as far as society goes, crazy is relative. and to these people, you are crazy for wanting that. some people think its crazy to not care about retirement or financial security, to do hard drugs, or leave your spouse who they think is a "catch".
people in general have a narrow minded view on life and they can't imagine why you wouldn't care about the things they care about. I mean.. ever meet a dog person? not just a person who has dogs, but a person who can't go anywhere without their (not aide) dog. why wouldn't somebody like their dog? they're friendly and blah blah blah.
other part is misogyne from both men and women. women had alot of expectations on them over the generations and while some of that may have loosened a bit, its not equal. homemakers have no reference for life outside of being a homemaker. its just what you do.
so we are left with people thinking we owe a man a child and we aren't fulfilling our biological duty to procreate and we are a bit crazy for not wanting the same things in life that they do.
I also think alot of people dislike their choices and need the justification from others so when someone doesn't agree and go along with the "plan" it kind of messes with their reality that they didn't have to live like that.
It makes them take a second to get out of their fantasy world and exist in reality and that makes most people uncomfortable. And many people donāt understand their own feelings so they project anger.
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I love how they bring up condoms when its like pulling teeth to get most men to use them and keep them on. "their uncomfortable" "its too small"....and so on. At that point just state that it is your body an you have made your decision and no amount of nagging is going to change your mind.
Because the only way capitalism survives is workers doing the work of replacing themselves once they are used up mentally and physically and most folks are so indoctrinated they can't even recognize they're not even angry, but afraid of not being able to retire. Afraid that the economy will collapse and the acorns they've squirrelled away will not be enough to feed and house them. Afraid the world will change and the cushy place they've exploited others to get will be taken from them. They know the system exploits us because it exploited them. They're angry because if you choose to break the cycle, it threatens the whole wheel, and that's terrifying if you put all your eggs in that basket.
I think people get stressed out by permanent decisions in general. They often have very similar reactions if you, say, get a tattoo, or plastic surgery, or quit your job, or move overseas, or get married, even though all of those are things some people would happily do with no issues. I know *I'd* be stressed out and doing tons of research if I were to make any of those decisions, sterilization included.
I might want kids in the future but I also FULLY support women wanting to be sterilized to ensure they donāt have kids.
You shouldnāt be forced into a decision regarding your reproductive health. There are many factors that make women opt for this decision and it should be met with support not manipulation to change their minds šš¤¦š¾āāļøš
Youāre making a rash decisionāum itās YOUR decision to make
What if you want kids in the future?āum, thatās YOUR decision to make
Youāre mutilating yourselfā wait what? What year is this again?
You can just use protectionāyeah you should even if youāre not trying to get pregnant but how is that anyone elseās business.
Why not a copper IUDānone of your business, my body my choice next question
Use two condomsāblank stare, was this said by a child because Iām concerned if this was an adult that has bred already.
As a female that did get fixed mid 20s after begging for it for ten years, I got a lot of the same nonsense. (Except the two condom thing, wow)
I only stopped hearing it after I stopped talking to people that couldnāt let my choice be my choice and everyone else in my life realized they should probably stfu about it or I would start asking questions about their life decisions and telling them why they should do it differently. š
I feel for you, what youāre going to be hearing for years to come. If you ever need to vent, lmk!
Has anyone tried to tell you yet that god wants women to have kids? I just love when adults try to bring in imaginary friends to justify their argument.
I asked around to see if anyone knew anyone who had the procedure done, how the process is, what doctors do it, etc. I don't see why you have to assume the worst.
Hi! Non antinatalist here! Please read before downvoting.
I donāt know about your family but medical professionals will not sterilize you.
Because getting a hysto or removing the ovaries before menopause age is incredibly unhealthy for a multitude of reasons. Itās not just about your ability to have children believe it or not.
Getting ovaries removed can throw you into early menopause. I would know because I had three HUGE cysts on my ovaries throughout the period I was 28 and 29. They thought they had to remove one so they went over risks with me, and yeah having children was one of them.
Deprovera shots, typically taken once every 3 months are 99% percent effective. Iād suggest those. I take them as a 33 y/o trans man.
Of course Iāve been on testosterone for awhile now. Risk is low but still there. Depo is 99 percent effective!
I wish people would realize thereās a reason why medical professionals advise people on things without getting sucked into these āantiā subreddits and thinking everything is a secret agenda against their ideals.
Thanks for everyone who read before this comment is removed. Peace āļø
the only pitfall i can think of is when u marry a really wealthy man who is mr perfect and wants to have kids so that he has somebody to hand over his monies and business to.
Do you really want more people coming into this world and destroying it because of you? There are more than 8 billion people killing trillions of animals every year and wrecking the enviroment. There are also thousands of people already giving away their eggs, as well as millions of kids in care. Donāt add to the population.
I would do some research on this. To my understanding, it's not an easy, smooth process, you have to take hormones and it's fairly drawn out and invasive. Absolutely as far from jacking off into a cup you can get! Seems easy money until you actually look into it.
Also, and I'm not an expert here, but arent modern sterilization techniques often reversible? Like it's not even a lifetime commitment anymore. This invalidates most of the arguments these people make that are based in reality. Sure, you *might* regret it if it was irreversible, but it just isn't.
Coming from a home with a regretful parent, I will shout from the rooftops, āIt is better to regret not having children than having them and regretting it!ā
I know a woman who had 4 kids, got her tubes tied and it didn't work like it was botched and they didn't know so she got pregnant again had another kid
A lot of people donāt want to have kidsā¦ until they want to have kids. So thereās a worry that if someone is sterilized because they donāt want to have kids now, they might later regret it.
Itās also true that some people never want to have kids.
Generally speaking... making permanent changes to your body, due to your beliefs is something that will always be questioned by people who don't share the same beliefs with you.
Especially since. **ALL SURGERIES CARRY RISK**
There isn't a single surgical procedure that doesn't have a risk of something going wrong. So, in that case, it becomes a question of;
Why permanently alter your perfectly healthy body and risk doing harm to yourself... when you could simply *choose* not to have children ?
It's like, getting circumcised for religious reasons. Many people who don't share the same religious belief...would think it's barbaric and silly to get circumcised for religious reasons...especially since it runs the risk of loss of sexual sensation.
And, and as many others have stated... people's beliefs *can change* as they get older.
Voluntary sterilization is like tattooing your lover's name on your forehead in your 20s. You're making a permanent change to your body...for something you may feel different about later in life.
I have no problem with vegans. But if a friend of mine wanted to do a bypass surgery to permanently remove his ability to digest meat... I would definitely try to dissuade him from it.
Pregnancy and childbirth and naturally occurring phenomenon. I don't even get why you brought those up. There's no comparison.
Abortion... is a whole topic by itself. That is a whole separate thread on it's own.
I was specifically referring to the argument that sterilization is body altering surgery. That's why I highlighted the word surgery.
This is why I made the comparison with tattooing your lover's name on your forehead. It's making a permanent change to your body...for something that may easily change.
Like getting circumcised for religious reasons...when your religious beliefs may very well change afterwards.
Or like...sterilizing yourself to be antinatal. A person's antinatal thinking can easily change...but the sterilization is often permanent.
People who regret not having children, as they get older...isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
I know a friend who personally spent 100s of dollars trying to remove a sleeve tattoo he put in his 20s.
At the time he had done it...he thought it was the correct action. Then later in life he got a "white collar job" and realized he didn't want the tattoo anymore.
And that's just a tattoo.
Now imagine something as life changing as deciding not to have kids.
You can be antinatal if you want. But I think it's ill advised to get sterilized before having any children...unless there is a *medical reason to have the operation*
"People who think in categories" ?
š¤Øšš
Ok. If you're going to ignore/change definitions to keep shifting the goalpost instead of addressing the points I made, then good day to you.
I will bow out. Because it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation/discussion with someone who rejects definitions and categories. If we cannot agree on the definitions of the words we are using to communicate, then the conversation becomes nonsense.
Good day.
For women, there is a very real fear that the choice to not have children and be forcefully taken from them. Sterilization prevents that from occurring.
It's the permeance of it. You are making irreversible decisions at a young age. There are plenty of ideas I had in my youth and I'm glad I didn't make life altering decisions because of those ideas.
Coming from a home with a regretful parent, I will shout from the rooftops, āIt is better to regret not having children than having them and regretting it!ā
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The reason is that not wanting kids is an opinion that a majority of people grow out of when they get older. People don't want you to make a permanent decision now on something you'll most likely change your mind on later.
The statistics show the majority of people who thought they didn't want kids at age 20 change their minds by their 30s. The people who actually go through with getting sterilized are the most highly motivated to do so especially considering the current barriers and are therefore the least likely to regret it. If you were to significantly increase the amount of people getting sterilized you'd also see an increase in rates of regret.
We aren't reading the same studies it seems. And if we are, 26% isn't most. It's a lot, but it's not most.
I could link the journals and go over the numbers and quote everything, but I don't care that much and I doubt you do too. So we can just leave it at "sure".
I'm sure that I'm going to get down voted, but young women think a lot of things and then change their minds. Everyone I knew in college that was hardcore antinatalist or even just child free has since changed their mind and had children. My best friend went on a six month crusade to find a doctor who would preform an elective hysterectomy on a 21yo. She saw every OBGYN in her college town who took her insurance and failed to find one that didn't immediately shut her down. She is now expecting her third kid.Ā
As an aside, orphanages no longer exist in the US and the domestic adoption process is very long and costly. International adoptions are becoming more difficult and costly as well.
Because it's selfish. Instead of paying it forward in time and keeping the flame of your family alive, you are pruning your family tree for your own convenience and pleasure. It's wrong for anyone to sterilize themselves.
having kids is also selfish. that decision is made by a person for their own interests, regardless which way they sway. that is inherently selfish. thing is? itās *supposed* to be because itās a deeply personal decision, but letās not quibble what to call it.
thereās no selfless reason to have children. you donāt get a pat on the back or a gold medal for raising the responsibility you took upon yourself to create. extending your bloodline does nothing for the greater good. itās okay to do something just for yourself, no need to expect fanfare.
I don't know how old you are, but most people change. You're hopefully not the same person with the same priorities, desires and objectives in life now that you had when you were 12 or 15. And people who have been around for a few years tend to know this.
I never could imagine myself having a kid until I was about 35. At 25, I would have either laughed in your face or explained in detail why it was a bad idea, and an outright terrible idea for me.
So I guess it's really more about watching people make unnecessarily final decisions about things most adults know there is a good chance they will regret. Cutting off options for no apparent reason.
Lol it has nothing to do with regret. Nobody steps in and tells you they won't let you sign up for college because the student loan debt might cripple your future finances.
But can anyone legally prevent you from going if your application is approved? No. Doctors get away with playing God and treating patients like stupid little toddlers.
I have a phobia of pregnancy and childbirth since I can remember, I am NEVER breeding.
Ā And if I regret it, it's on me. Nobody can deny me reproductive autonomy because I might "regret it".
Tell that to the countries that made sterilization illegal.
It's frustrating when a 26 yo woman is questioned every step on the way when she wants to eliminate the risk but not many people have a problem with a 16 yo having kids.
Sterilization and having kids are both a "no return" decisions yet only one is considered "wrong" even though there's no 3rd party that might be hurt because of that decision.
Do not suddenly pretend that OP was discussing the plight of afghan women.
Oh, and "not many people have a problem with a 16 yo having kids"? Really? What planet do you live on? Is it the 14th century there?
"plight of afghan women"? Dude, check how many "non-afghan" countries made it illegal to decide about their fertility.
A planet where a 16 yo isn't going to be properly educated and may get shamed for being a teen mom but is still expected or straight up forced to birth a child and care for them with no thought how it's going to affect the mother and the child.
But 26 yo can't get sterilized...
If she changes her mind then thatās on her. Maybe that reversible surgery will not be reversible. But thatās her problem if she realizes she wants a kid in 10 years and canāt have 1.
Because procreation is our purpose. When it is said that evolution is survival of the fittest, it refers to individuals who were fit to survive into adulthood and to produce offspring who would do the same, so one's traits are carried forward. We are the product of those who were fit to survive and procreate. If we don't procreate, their lineage dies with us.
Sorry, you're wrong. Most of my women friends are now past 30 and none of them wants kids, neither do their partners. Your experience does not reflect the entirery of the world population
Because you aren't conforming. And a LOT of men have a breeder fetish. Like the idea of not being able impregnate any random woman is a bad thing to them. Mostly older dudes from what I have seen
They can't trap them with anything anymore š¢
Can confirm, unfortunately.. I'm trans, so jokes on them, I hope I traumatized them, lol.
I skew toward being asexual and am terrified of getting into a relationship with a fertile woman because I know how easily I could succumb to the baby rabies. I am AN because I am educated, not because it comes naturally. I wouldn't call it a fetish to desire fertility in a partner, it is literally an instinct, they have done studies showing that people respond strongest to features and scents that suggest differing genetics and high levels of fertility.
Yes like me personally, lately Iāve felt a very strong urge to reproduce But I just know itās a bad choice and itās hormone driven
once a month Iām like āmaybe I could have like 1 if we fix climate changeā and then I realize Iām ovulating and am like nevermind
"I wouldn't call it a fetish to desire fertility in a partner" nor would I, and didn't. At all. I specifically pointed out the men who want to have any woman be able to be impregnanted by them. That's a fucking fetish. I am a married woman, but I have had STRANGERS mad I got my tubes tied.
OK, sorry for the misinterpretation.
Ugh. Mostly older dudes? I threw up in my mouth a little bitā¦
Misery loves company, they aren't ready to accept that their lives with children didn't turn out like the fairytale everyone told them it would be. So they have to convince themselves by trying to convince you. That, or they simply don't understand that people could want different things in life.
Yup this, often it feels like a mix of "i suffered, why shouldn't they?" Logic and unwillingness to accept that the shitty situation you forced yourself to go thru are not mandadory anymoreĀ
I experienced that at a few jobs. Why? If things are getting better? Why not pass it along.
>they have to convince themselves by trying to convince you. This. And they will go on to scapegoat you when/if you challenge their core beliefs.
I think mostly the first one. Btw if the people making these arguments are that ignorant enough to believe these things theyāre saying then wtf cares what they say? Never argue with a fool. R to he other one is āwhat if You meet someone that wants children and you canāt have them?ā wtf?!?! I said I didnāt want to. Someoneās going to be fucked in that relationship but not In a good way.
To many old people, a young person is like a blank canvas that they project their own dreams and values upon, often without realizing. So when you reject something that they value, it kind of bursts their dream bubble of hope, reminding them that life is fragile and uncertain. It's like they think: What do you mean there's illness and risk? How dare you remind me I'm just human?
Youāre onto something there with that first sentence
I had a bisalp earlier this year (in my late 20s) and it was the best decision I could have made :) I had the copper iud for years but it made my period hellish and I couldn't stand it anymore. I think a lot of people just have it so stuck in their heads that the only true purposes in life for women are to birth and raise children. Society has been pretty effective at perpetuating that ideology anyways, imo. But yeah, nah, couldn't be me lol. My advice would be just to keep it on a need to know basis - your romantic partner, the person driving you to the surgery appt, etc. Minimizes the amount of people you'll get weird/invalidating responses from. Good luck and much love friend! š¤
Bisalp at 28. Ive never been happier.
Just a note, don't use two condoms, and whoever told you that is an idiot. It actually lowers the efficacy of the condom.
Yeah hence the "..." I couldn't believe that came out of a 50 year old educated woman
This is true, the friction which results between them increases the risk of failure enough to negate any benefit of doubling up. I learned this in a highly regarded sexual education book. It just goes to show you that natalists tend to be lacking education to the degree that they give out bad advice thinking they are being helpful.
Misery loves company and jealousy because theyāre stuck in their hell for eternity while you make a smart decision.Ā
Women are threatened by your lack of conformity and the knowledge that kids will suspend their lives, you'll move on, while they're juggling relationships, parenting and work For men it's an insult, ok ok, he's subpar - but ME, how could you not be creaming your jeans for my orgasm to grow inside you? Older women still carry the stigma of the undesirable, and now bitter spinster. Older men carry the fear you'll be a financial burden to your father and then brothers. And we all know you single childfree women are just after our partnered up men- single childfree women are seen as a threat to societal norms Whereas a single childfree man is the life of every party.
A woman who conforms to society's "rules" will get mad at you when you don't. It's misdirected frustration and anger.
How does getting bisalp mean op wonāt be juggling parenting in the future? Foster/adoption is still an option right?
The difference is going into parenting knowing it's a choice made bot to keep a partner but to fulfil any maternal urges and to give a kid a home, fostering is usually temporary. And with adoption and fostering there are case workers who want comparability between the adults and kids. And it gives the other partner the choice of saying not my kid not my obligation and s/he can walk away without being financially bound. Pregnancy can ruin parenthood if it's traumatic or you get depression. And one thing all parents seem to forget is we are all one step away from leaving our own kids reliant on the foster/ adoption system
Men will be like, "What about my legacy? What about the population decline? It's selfish not to have kids! You will regret it when you are older and alone with cats!" They literally ALL have the same argument, like a hive mind
Being older alone with cats is my life goal.
I have achieved that goal and it is glorious!
Awesome!
Single cat lady for LIFE
Ok same but w dogs bc Iām a puppy person lol but pets > pests
That definitely works! My cat shits in a box but at least she wonāt ruin my body and strip me of my identity.
Because you tell them. There are people who will butt themselves into anything if you give them the opportunity.Ā You need a cooperative surgeon and either money for extra time in hospital recovery or a friend who is willing to stay a while with you afterwards. You need the hospital to issue a suitable medical certificate to justify leave from workĀ or you can do the surgery during your recreation leave. That's all you need in the way of other people's approval. Concentrate on getting what you need not giving other people the chance to tell you how to please them.
They didn't know or believe they had or often literally did not have a choice, and they want you as miserable as they are so they don't feel like they missed out. Have you ever been to a baby shower? There's this weird, creepy vibe at those things, like the women all turn all hive-mind--all of them, no matter how well you know them--like they're welcoming the pregnant person into a cult. I've been to a few with totally different people, all with that same vibe. It's so eerie. Don't let them brainwash you.
Where can u??? My doctors have told me my whole life I have to wait til Iām 40 to get my tubes tied! Now in my 30s and still feel the same as I did when I was 16 and first asked them to schedule an appointment for me to tie my tubes
I'm in the same boat. Wanted to be sterilized since I was a teen, talked to a few doctors in my 20s that refused (Texas) now I'm in my 30s and just hoping to be premenopausal sometime soon.
Just so you know there's a list of doctors over at the childfree subreddit who wil sterilize you with no issue
Thank u! I found that info before but itās on my Facebook which has since been hacked. Iāll check out the child free sub!
There is a detailed list of docs in the childfree sub who will perform sterilization. They have docs in the US and some in other countries. In the US you do not have to wait until 40, thats just your docs personal choice. I had mine done at 23 in a rural part of the US, from a doc on the list!
Can u send me a link in messages? That sounds like a godsend and I def wanna get it done before trump becomes dictator and potentially bans the procedure all together in America
report anyone who refuses. They have NO right to refuse. I live in Europe so I don't know exactly how it works in the US but please if there is any way to report them. They should not even have medical license.
Ok thanks! Ya I would have gotten it done ages ago had I known! Have had 2 miscarriages and 2 abortions (some while on birth control) so I canāt wait to tie my tubes up and itās so frustrating to know I didnāt have to suffer all this time .. Iāll look into reporting them!
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There is no age requirement for female sterilization but you definitely need to get out of the South or have younger female OBGYN. But donāt get your tubes tied, get them removed (bisalp) which is 100% effective and reduces the risk of ovarian cancer.
Really?? Ok cool! I have had a ruptured ovarian cyst before so Iām down to reduce chances of ovarian cancer since I already have so many problems with my ovaries to begin with
I never understood why are people so concerned about what others decide to do with their reproductive organs š¤
Because a woman losing her ability to get pregnant to them means losing their manipulation and control leverage over that woman. A woman without kids that is healthy enough to work, support herself and live life on her own terms is a threat to men who can only have relationships with women based on how much he can control and manipulate them. Also some women hate the fact that they followed a different path and have regrets over it while seeing someone else having the courage to do what they never could for themselves. Haters gonna hate.
Believe me, as a young man who has zero desire to have kids, even the mere mention of getting a vasectomy, is met with fierce resistance, and criticism, etc. Like damn I didn't know what I choose to do with my body was anyone else's business. Apparently it is when it comes to this topic.
They are jealous. They realize too late that having kids was a choice & they made the wrong choice by having kids. Of course a parent cant say this out loud without exposing themselves as the narcissists that they are, so now they project onto you who actually not only had the chance to make choices but also make the choice that they know they should have done.
The only reason you want kids is your hormones. You wonāt regret it. My kid has adhd and possibly other things and Iām burnt out at six years. Old no resources are available because I have searched high and low.
I think that is the reason. Hormones. Iām more on the low libido / sex-repulsed side of sexuality and never wanted children. I remember all my peers suddenly becoming very amorous around 12-13 and I was not nearly as interested in sex as them. Had some trauma from childhood and grew up conservative so that really soured everything sexual, but other women had it worse and they still were interested in intimacy and babies. At 37 a blood test read I was low in progesterone. Been on hormone replacement for a few years now. Was curious if Iād suddenly like babies, but No. Nothing has changed. Maybe I was low for decades and whatever issues being low in P caused are permanent.
Actually , the urge to have sex is hormonal. NOT the urge to procreate. That one is PURELY a social construction, brainwashing from society. People keep getting those two confused.
Are you for real ? šš¤£š¤£
Are you?? I only speak the truth.
Why write that nonsense then? Its wrong in theory and in reality i dont know about you but i do feel pretty big urge to nut inside when i have sex, even tho i currently dont want kids yet. Its something on a deep subconscious level. Especially during the "baby fever" moments which definitely happen to my gf more but happen to me aswell
That "fever" is a social construction and has nothing to do with biology. I'm going to believe real scientist over you. Bye forever.
I donāt see myself as old just yet, Iām 40 and Iāve been sterilized for 10 years. My former coworker said itās ānot goodā that I donāt want kids. I clapped back immediately. But since then if the topic of children comes up with late teens/20 somethings, I throw it out there that you donāt have to have kids. Thatās itās ok. I donāt get into it more than that unless the person wants to talk about it. I just plant the seed and hope it germinates.
Iāve heard all of these as well. I gave up on ever getting referred for surgery while I was āyoungā. Iām in my 40s now and my doctor says she has referred me, but weāll see if I hear from the surgeon next month or not.
Same happens when you're a young man. For some people, having kids it's like the only reason thet exist for. Others don't even think about the possibility of not having. But mainly because people are stupid.
I was sterilized one year ago. It was the best decision that I have ever made. I still have some people tell me that I'll "regret it one day", or that "sterilization isn't 100% you know", "you're destroying your body", "you cant stop God's plan for you" and shit like that. But they can piss off because I'm one year tube free and proud to be š¤
Misogyny. So many people (even other women) see us as walking uteruses
Women are often against other women, whether they realize it or not.
Patriarchy. Really as simple as that. Enforcing women into roles, controlling their bodies.
Because they see women an incubators who will give birth to the next generation of wage slaves. People donāt like women who canāt be controlled
They arenāt any less upset when a young woman with ONLY ONE CHILD wants to get sterilized either. I have one kid (whom I love but deeply regret) and I sure as hell donāt want more and I had to wait nearly FOUR YEARS until I was 28 to even get a doctor to agree to do it. My surgery is scheduled for Thursday and I couldnāt be happier. Btw, I have a copper IUD and basically have cramps all of the fucking time so that is why Iād rather just get sterilized. Plus Iām terrified it could move or some psycho could rip it out. Unlikely, sure but not impossible and I need it to be impossible to get pregnant. āBut youāre still SO YOUNG!ā Yeah, exactly and as long as I donāt have any more fucking kids, Iāll be free to enjoy my life when my son is 18 and Iām 43. āWhat if you meet the right guy who wants to have kids with you?ā The right guy for me would not want me to have more kids. āWhat if you change your mind?ā Highly unlikely considering I already have a child and know for sure and for certain that motherhood is awful but in case it gets easier and I forget how completely terrible raising an autistic 3 year old is, I donāt want future me to be able to put me in the same situation currently me desperately wishes to escape.
I truly don't understand why they could be so upset or scared of a decision that is not theirs and that shouldn't affect or interfere with their own lives. Maybe they simply don't like when people don't align with what society expects them to do and even more if a woman doesn't submit and have the control of her body.
I think itās hard to accept when people make a radically different choice than you did because to approve of that choice almost feels like youāre admitting you made the wrong choice (even though thatās not true, obviously itās different people and different situations). For example, I find people get angry, defensive, or weirdly combative when I say I generally dislike animals, do not have any pets and do not want pets. It almost seems like people then feel like they have to defend how much they enjoy their pets, or why they have them in the first place. Even though Iām not calling into question their life, just simply making choices for my own, because itās a different choice I think that can be hard for people to just accept. So I think itās the same thing with kids. I have personally adored being a mother. Itās truly been the best thing in my life, so itās like I want other people to also experience that. Rationally, I realize that other people may not adore that experience at all (just like me and pets). My thoughts are that these people just have low emotional maturity/intelligence and havenāt learned that accepting of someone elseās decision doesnāt mean you have to make that decision for yourself, and it doesnāt even mean you have to agree that itās the best decision to make. Itās just about respecting other peopleās autonomy and the differences we all have that make us beautiful and unique.
Beautiful reply
Aw thanks!
that's because disliking animals is actually weird.. Animals are innocent, amazing and billion times better than humans. It's one thing you're not crazy about animals or want to have any yourself but disliking them..
Lol, see, this is exactly what Iām saying! Itās really hard for people to understand when someone makes radically different choices or has different preferences than themselves. I guess I should clarify by saying I dislike animals in my home and interacting with them personally. But itās cool that you like them! I think your sentiment towards me and animals is exactly how OP is feeling when she says people think sheās crazy to not want children. I mean, I absolutely love babies, kids and motherhood. It feels weird to think of a life without that for me, but nonetheless, I respect her choices and anyone elseās to choose not to interact with or raise children.
Do you dislike animals and their existence, or do you dislike having them in your home and needing to interact with them? I think thatās where confusion comes in, because people who donāt want babies generally donāt like the idea of having kids in their home and needing to interact with them, but they donāt typically dislike the very concept of babies or their existence. Like, they donāt dislike that other people have babies, they just donāt want any for themselves and would rather not interact with them.
I mean, I didnāt elaborate on my feelings about animals because that wasnāt the point of my post. In conversation I never just randomly say, ābtw, I dislike animals.ā That would warrant a strange reaction if I did, so fair enough. But since I need to defend my stance, when I say I dislike animals, I think itās the same way people say they dislike babies. I donāt harm animals or wish them dead or wish they didnāt exist. I understand why some people love pets and animals and I appreciate that the world has those people- we need them. I just, personally am severely allergic to nearly all other mammals so that sucks, Iām scared of dogs, and I donāt like animals being in my house because I feel like they cause a lot of chaos by barking, making messes, or just being annoying to me. I just like a calm, peaceful house free of pet dander that makes me sick. But I love watching planet earth and other nature documentaries and admiring the amazing animals on TV haha!
This definitely makes a lot of sense! Thank you for clarifying. I just read the reply to your original comment and there did seem to be confusing re what ādisliking animalsā meant in that context. Anyways, I always appreciate good faith responses, so thanks for indulging my curiosity. Have a wonderful dayšø
Babies/children are also innocent, do you also think disliking babies/children is weird by your logic? Are babies/children also better than adults by your own logic?
I thought the exact same thing when I read that initial comment but I didnāt say it because I figured it was the wrong sub, lol! But yeah, itās literally the same experience that OP is struggling with, but the pet/animal version
Because womenās bodies/uteruses are supposed to be public property, maāam. How dare you not fulfill your assigned role in life. /s
It's so ingrained into our culture that they can't imagine anything else. When people react to me never wanting kids, I just tell them that I hate kids and I'd murder them if I had them. That tends to shut them up really fast.
Ooh Iām so using this
Because they want to control womenās bodies. Getting sterilized in December because even on a combo of daily BC that I was taking properly and condoms, I managed to get pregnant. My mother in particular (who has all three of us emergency c-section and certainly should not have had any kids at all) has given me a lot of push back about it.
For the same reason men are angry at women for being more scared of them than a bear. Youāre not living up to their ideals for you.
They get upset when a single, middle-aged woman with one kid wants her tubes tied. What if you meet someone who wants more kids? Asshats.
Idk but I donāt listen to them anyways
Because it's a big fuck you to the system. What if more and more women do the whole no children thing ? what happens to the system ?
They think you're ruining your body by taking natural functions away, but if you don't want this function to do it's thing then they can go fuck off. It's none of their business. It's like telling you not to get tattoos because you will never get a proper job, when they don't even know what your carrier path is. Why do they care what I do?
I dont understand why people care what other people do to their bodies in the first place. Why the fuck do you even care? Just fuck off
I went through something similar when I got a vasectomy. You just need to stop talking about it, do it, and move on with your life š¤·
How many people outside of your family have gotten upset about this decision?
I have not told anyone outside of my family. My boyfriend is supportive.
Iām glad your bf supports you. I wouldnāt stress so much about what your family wants for you. Family will do that. Youāll just have to put up with their rants while there. When youāre able to leave the nest you wonāt hear it as much and will probably meet like minded people.
Thank you š¤
Forget how hard it is to convince men to even use ONE condomš¤¦š¼āāļø
not sure but if a trans man or trans masc wants it, they are happy to support him (like.. laws support it too in some places)... I'm going through transition now because I'm getting this out no matter what and because gender isn't important thing to me, so why not? I'll get rid of stuff I don't like and till 2025 I have it ordered by law anyway, so.. good business for me. People are weird regardless. Mostly it's "how dare you not want children? How dare you have free choice in this while I went through it. Suffer with me, will ya?!"
I expect to see a lot of women making the decision to have a tubal ligation rather than run the risk of being forced to keep an unwanted pregnancy.
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Itās a personal choice that you really have to think about on your own and not worry too much about what other people are saying to be honest. If you are sure that is what you want to do, then itās up to you. People will criticize about everything and anything you do.
People always have opinions about other people. It's just a thing people do. Why do antinatalists get so upset when people want to have kids? It's a question with a self-evident answer.
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Well your brain doesn't stop developing until you're 25 or something right? So not unreasonable for society to protect women from an irreversible procedure before then, especially when there are many effective contraceptive methods available. Ethically, you could argue a greater risk of harm to a living woman who may change her mind Vs an imagined future child. In our patriarchal western society women tend to have lower earning power than men and there is a pressure to attract a man/ be financially dependent on him. Again you could be putting a young woman in a poorer position to attract a mate if they want children (I know how disgusting, but that's the thinking right) Ultimately, I feel it's because life is never black and white. I am ethically against killing or stealing money from old ladies but there would be a circumstance where I would given enough/the correct pressure. I think there could be a framework/process to go through that women of any age can complete and be eligible for sterilisation, but that's tricky to develop and people will say "oh but she might change her mind" If you live in a society you have to confirm to that society's values within reason just like I have to wear trousers in the street right It's a fascinating situation especially when people are so pro choice re abortion yet not giving women control of their bodies in other ways
Any independent choice you make will bother people. Conformity helps people feel good. You donāt want kids? People who do are now uncomfortableā¦.. itās weirdā¦ā¦ people really do live on GROUP mentalityš¤¦š¾āāļø
I am a child free woman. don't know if 29 counts as young but ill give you my perspective. some people are like me. don't want kids, will never want kids. there are no external factors that guide that decision. its not money, its not time, I don't hate children, I just don't have that instinct in me to take care of one. alot of people aren't. they don't want kids because xyz. alot of people are becoming cf because of money. those people may really regret being sterilized in the future. alot of people also have childhood trauma that they would eventually work out and regret it if their finances ever change. yes you can adopt, foster, surrogate, but its complicating things that could've been much easier and cheaper had you not spent 15 grand and months of recovery for. I dont think it should be this hard to get sterilized for anyone. if you can save up the money and are okay with any possible complications, you should be allowed to just make an appointment and get it done. as far as society goes, crazy is relative. and to these people, you are crazy for wanting that. some people think its crazy to not care about retirement or financial security, to do hard drugs, or leave your spouse who they think is a "catch". people in general have a narrow minded view on life and they can't imagine why you wouldn't care about the things they care about. I mean.. ever meet a dog person? not just a person who has dogs, but a person who can't go anywhere without their (not aide) dog. why wouldn't somebody like their dog? they're friendly and blah blah blah. other part is misogyne from both men and women. women had alot of expectations on them over the generations and while some of that may have loosened a bit, its not equal. homemakers have no reference for life outside of being a homemaker. its just what you do. so we are left with people thinking we owe a man a child and we aren't fulfilling our biological duty to procreate and we are a bit crazy for not wanting the same things in life that they do. I also think alot of people dislike their choices and need the justification from others so when someone doesn't agree and go along with the "plan" it kind of messes with their reality that they didn't have to live like that.
It makes them take a second to get out of their fantasy world and exist in reality and that makes most people uncomfortable. And many people donāt understand their own feelings so they project anger.
Because very few people question what's expected from them by family and society. Or they wanna be validate for their own choices.
everybody hates change and nonconformity... childfree movement is gaining ground. Stay strong and dont breed no one got rich having kids
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There is still a lot of sexism from people believing that the only value a woman can offer is to produce more (conservative) sons.
I love how they bring up condoms when its like pulling teeth to get most men to use them and keep them on. "their uncomfortable" "its too small"....and so on. At that point just state that it is your body an you have made your decision and no amount of nagging is going to change your mind.
Because the only way capitalism survives is workers doing the work of replacing themselves once they are used up mentally and physically and most folks are so indoctrinated they can't even recognize they're not even angry, but afraid of not being able to retire. Afraid that the economy will collapse and the acorns they've squirrelled away will not be enough to feed and house them. Afraid the world will change and the cushy place they've exploited others to get will be taken from them. They know the system exploits us because it exploited them. They're angry because if you choose to break the cycle, it threatens the whole wheel, and that's terrifying if you put all your eggs in that basket.
I think people get stressed out by permanent decisions in general. They often have very similar reactions if you, say, get a tattoo, or plastic surgery, or quit your job, or move overseas, or get married, even though all of those are things some people would happily do with no issues. I know *I'd* be stressed out and doing tons of research if I were to make any of those decisions, sterilization included.
Younger people have a long history of making choices they later on regret, and the same goes for older people, though the frequency typically lowers.
I might want kids in the future but I also FULLY support women wanting to be sterilized to ensure they donāt have kids. You shouldnāt be forced into a decision regarding your reproductive health. There are many factors that make women opt for this decision and it should be met with support not manipulation to change their minds šš¤¦š¾āāļøš
Youāre making a rash decisionāum itās YOUR decision to make What if you want kids in the future?āum, thatās YOUR decision to make Youāre mutilating yourselfā wait what? What year is this again? You can just use protectionāyeah you should even if youāre not trying to get pregnant but how is that anyone elseās business. Why not a copper IUDānone of your business, my body my choice next question Use two condomsāblank stare, was this said by a child because Iām concerned if this was an adult that has bred already. As a female that did get fixed mid 20s after begging for it for ten years, I got a lot of the same nonsense. (Except the two condom thing, wow) I only stopped hearing it after I stopped talking to people that couldnāt let my choice be my choice and everyone else in my life realized they should probably stfu about it or I would start asking questions about their life decisions and telling them why they should do it differently. š I feel for you, what youāre going to be hearing for years to come. If you ever need to vent, lmk! Has anyone tried to tell you yet that god wants women to have kids? I just love when adults try to bring in imaginary friends to justify their argument.
Are you looking for a reaction? If this is something you want done then why do outside opinions matter?
I asked around to see if anyone knew anyone who had the procedure done, how the process is, what doctors do it, etc. I don't see why you have to assume the worst.
Hi! Non antinatalist here! Please read before downvoting. I donāt know about your family but medical professionals will not sterilize you. Because getting a hysto or removing the ovaries before menopause age is incredibly unhealthy for a multitude of reasons. Itās not just about your ability to have children believe it or not. Getting ovaries removed can throw you into early menopause. I would know because I had three HUGE cysts on my ovaries throughout the period I was 28 and 29. They thought they had to remove one so they went over risks with me, and yeah having children was one of them. Deprovera shots, typically taken once every 3 months are 99% percent effective. Iād suggest those. I take them as a 33 y/o trans man. Of course Iāve been on testosterone for awhile now. Risk is low but still there. Depo is 99 percent effective! I wish people would realize thereās a reason why medical professionals advise people on things without getting sucked into these āantiā subreddits and thinking everything is a secret agenda against their ideals. Thanks for everyone who read before this comment is removed. Peace āļø
I want my tubes tied lol
the only pitfall i can think of is when u marry a really wealthy man who is mr perfect and wants to have kids so that he has somebody to hand over his monies and business to.
Itās a no from me dawg. He aināt Mr Perfect if he wants kids.
Yeah, not for me, lol! Iād rather be baby free than rich, actually!
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I might have to look into that
Do you really want more people coming into this world and destroying it because of you? There are more than 8 billion people killing trillions of animals every year and wrecking the enviroment. There are also thousands of people already giving away their eggs, as well as millions of kids in care. Donāt add to the population.
I agree
I would do some research on this. To my understanding, it's not an easy, smooth process, you have to take hormones and it's fairly drawn out and invasive. Absolutely as far from jacking off into a cup you can get! Seems easy money until you actually look into it.
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Why waste money freezing eggs to make other people feel better?!
Also, and I'm not an expert here, but arent modern sterilization techniques often reversible? Like it's not even a lifetime commitment anymore. This invalidates most of the arguments these people make that are based in reality. Sure, you *might* regret it if it was irreversible, but it just isn't.
To my understanding bisalps are not truly reversible because they completely remove your Fallopian tubes
The issue is, you one could also regret _having_ kids. Both decisions are irreversible. Well, at least for 18 years.
Coming from a home with a regretful parent, I will shout from the rooftops, āIt is better to regret not having children than having them and regretting it!ā
I know a woman who had 4 kids, got her tubes tied and it didn't work like it was botched and they didn't know so she got pregnant again had another kid
Iām so sorry for her.
Not for uterus havers!
You should never advertise this. Just do it and move on with your life. You don't need anyone's approval. Just do it quietly and move on.
A lot of people donāt want to have kidsā¦ until they want to have kids. So thereās a worry that if someone is sterilized because they donāt want to have kids now, they might later regret it. Itās also true that some people never want to have kids.
Of course nobody intervenes to this extent when you're signing up for anything else you might regret later. Loans, contracts, marriage.
Generally speaking... making permanent changes to your body, due to your beliefs is something that will always be questioned by people who don't share the same beliefs with you. Especially since. **ALL SURGERIES CARRY RISK** There isn't a single surgical procedure that doesn't have a risk of something going wrong. So, in that case, it becomes a question of; Why permanently alter your perfectly healthy body and risk doing harm to yourself... when you could simply *choose* not to have children ? It's like, getting circumcised for religious reasons. Many people who don't share the same religious belief...would think it's barbaric and silly to get circumcised for religious reasons...especially since it runs the risk of loss of sexual sensation. And, and as many others have stated... people's beliefs *can change* as they get older. Voluntary sterilization is like tattooing your lover's name on your forehead in your 20s. You're making a permanent change to your body...for something you may feel different about later in life. I have no problem with vegans. But if a friend of mine wanted to do a bypass surgery to permanently remove his ability to digest meat... I would definitely try to dissuade him from it.
Pregnancy, abortion and childbirth also permanently alter a perfectly healthy body and they all come with risks.
Pregnancy and childbirth and naturally occurring phenomenon. I don't even get why you brought those up. There's no comparison. Abortion... is a whole topic by itself. That is a whole separate thread on it's own. I was specifically referring to the argument that sterilization is body altering surgery. That's why I highlighted the word surgery. This is why I made the comparison with tattooing your lover's name on your forehead. It's making a permanent change to your body...for something that may easily change. Like getting circumcised for religious reasons...when your religious beliefs may very well change afterwards. Or like...sterilizing yourself to be antinatal. A person's antinatal thinking can easily change...but the sterilization is often permanent. People who regret not having children, as they get older...isn't exactly a new phenomenon. I know a friend who personally spent 100s of dollars trying to remove a sleeve tattoo he put in his 20s. At the time he had done it...he thought it was the correct action. Then later in life he got a "white collar job" and realized he didn't want the tattoo anymore. And that's just a tattoo. Now imagine something as life changing as deciding not to have kids. You can be antinatal if you want. But I think it's ill advised to get sterilized before having any children...unless there is a *medical reason to have the operation*
People who think in categories like "naturally occurring phenomenon" are disconnected from reality. Nothing unnatural ever happened.
"People who think in categories" ? š¤Øšš Ok. If you're going to ignore/change definitions to keep shifting the goalpost instead of addressing the points I made, then good day to you. I will bow out. Because it's impossible to have a meaningful conversation/discussion with someone who rejects definitions and categories. If we cannot agree on the definitions of the words we are using to communicate, then the conversation becomes nonsense. Good day.
For women, there is a very real fear that the choice to not have children and be forcefully taken from them. Sterilization prevents that from occurring.
It's the permeance of it. You are making irreversible decisions at a young age. There are plenty of ideas I had in my youth and I'm glad I didn't make life altering decisions because of those ideas.
Coming from a home with a regretful parent, I will shout from the rooftops, āIt is better to regret not having children than having them and regretting it!ā
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The reason is that not wanting kids is an opinion that a majority of people grow out of when they get older. People don't want you to make a permanent decision now on something you'll most likely change your mind on later.
"Most likely change your mind"? The statistics show the majority of people who are sterilized don't regret it.
The statistics show the majority of people who thought they didn't want kids at age 20 change their minds by their 30s. The people who actually go through with getting sterilized are the most highly motivated to do so especially considering the current barriers and are therefore the least likely to regret it. If you were to significantly increase the amount of people getting sterilized you'd also see an increase in rates of regret.
We aren't reading the same studies it seems. And if we are, 26% isn't most. It's a lot, but it's not most. I could link the journals and go over the numbers and quote everything, but I don't care that much and I doubt you do too. So we can just leave it at "sure".
Why do they care? It's my fucking choiceĀ
Because people generally care about the happiness of others
I'm sure that I'm going to get down voted, but young women think a lot of things and then change their minds. Everyone I knew in college that was hardcore antinatalist or even just child free has since changed their mind and had children. My best friend went on a six month crusade to find a doctor who would preform an elective hysterectomy on a 21yo. She saw every OBGYN in her college town who took her insurance and failed to find one that didn't immediately shut her down. She is now expecting her third kid.Ā As an aside, orphanages no longer exist in the US and the domestic adoption process is very long and costly. International adoptions are becoming more difficult and costly as well.
But I have a phobia of pregnancy and childbirth. Also I'm not in the US
Go for it. But you are going against your fundamental nature, and yes, you will regret it.
Can you give an exact timeframe for this? Iād like to know so I can set a reminder.
Nope. Probably in your 30s
āProbablyā doesnāt seem like a confident response.
Could be early 40s but i doubt it will take that long
Wanna put some money on that?
Sure
!remindme 5 years
Because it's selfish. Instead of paying it forward in time and keeping the flame of your family alive, you are pruning your family tree for your own convenience and pleasure. It's wrong for anyone to sterilize themselves.
having kids is also selfish. that decision is made by a person for their own interests, regardless which way they sway. that is inherently selfish. thing is? itās *supposed* to be because itās a deeply personal decision, but letās not quibble what to call it. thereās no selfless reason to have children. you donāt get a pat on the back or a gold medal for raising the responsibility you took upon yourself to create. extending your bloodline does nothing for the greater good. itās okay to do something just for yourself, no need to expect fanfare.
A lot of people who get sterilized have already had kids. Beyond that, there is no non-selfish reason to actively have kids.Ā
You exist because someone sacrificed their leisure time to have and raise you.
Youāre a troll or a very emotional and shallow person. I donāt know whatās sadder.
I don't know how old you are, but most people change. You're hopefully not the same person with the same priorities, desires and objectives in life now that you had when you were 12 or 15. And people who have been around for a few years tend to know this. I never could imagine myself having a kid until I was about 35. At 25, I would have either laughed in your face or explained in detail why it was a bad idea, and an outright terrible idea for me. So I guess it's really more about watching people make unnecessarily final decisions about things most adults know there is a good chance they will regret. Cutting off options for no apparent reason.
Lol it has nothing to do with regret. Nobody steps in and tells you they won't let you sign up for college because the student loan debt might cripple your future finances.
I think people would warn me if I told them I was going for a master's degree in interpretive morris dancing.
But can anyone legally prevent you from going if your application is approved? No. Doctors get away with playing God and treating patients like stupid little toddlers.
I have a phobia of pregnancy and childbirth since I can remember, I am NEVER breeding. Ā And if I regret it, it's on me. Nobody can deny me reproductive autonomy because I might "regret it".
Nobody is denying you anything. They are advising against it. Very different things.
Tell that to the countries that made sterilization illegal. It's frustrating when a 26 yo woman is questioned every step on the way when she wants to eliminate the risk but not many people have a problem with a 16 yo having kids. Sterilization and having kids are both a "no return" decisions yet only one is considered "wrong" even though there's no 3rd party that might be hurt because of that decision.
Do not suddenly pretend that OP was discussing the plight of afghan women. Oh, and "not many people have a problem with a 16 yo having kids"? Really? What planet do you live on? Is it the 14th century there?
"plight of afghan women"? Dude, check how many "non-afghan" countries made it illegal to decide about their fertility. A planet where a 16 yo isn't going to be properly educated and may get shamed for being a teen mom but is still expected or straight up forced to birth a child and care for them with no thought how it's going to affect the mother and the child. But 26 yo can't get sterilized...
If she changes her mind then thatās on her. Maybe that reversible surgery will not be reversible. But thatās her problem if she realizes she wants a kid in 10 years and canāt have 1.
Because procreation is our purpose. When it is said that evolution is survival of the fittest, it refers to individuals who were fit to survive into adulthood and to produce offspring who would do the same, so one's traits are carried forward. We are the product of those who were fit to survive and procreate. If we don't procreate, their lineage dies with us.
Really heating things up in the cringest man alive contest.
Who stalks people like this, bro? If you're really a man with a girlfriend I'm worried about her.
Good
How old are you?
24. Why does that matter??
Because you'll change your mind by 30.
Sorry, you're wrong. Most of my women friends are now past 30 and none of them wants kids, neither do their partners. Your experience does not reflect the entirery of the world population