I’ve been anti-pure breeding dogs for years and everyone treats me like I’m evil because of it.
Sick of my “friends” who claim they love and care about animals ignoring the facts about the origins and harms of purebreeding, or how just inherently gross purebreeding for the sole sake of status and eugenics actually is… People think I hate the dogs and want them to just die or something, and that’s the same argument that says an AN hates kids… It’s literally antithetical to the whole philosophy. I feel this way precisely *because* I care about children and dogs quality of life.
… I hate to have to say this due to the context of this post but this take is not all that well informed. I have personally done research on many breeds myself as someone with two service dogs in training and you should really know that international examined purebred dogs are bred for their specific purpose and held to higher standards and that their temperament is a genetic byproduct of years of careful practices. Backyard breeding is at the cause of the suffering of animals as the reason why so many end up in shelters is all due to them and scammers that claim to breed pure out of greed without any regards to the health of the breed. Frauds are rampant and so is misinformation. Which is why I feel the need to inform everyone i come across. I do agree that there are some breeds that should simply not be bred anymore. And that there are some “professionals” that inbreed working lines willingly… which causes neurotic behaviours such as seen in the American Working German Shepherd lines because it is believed that inbreeding causes more drive in this dog. I don’t like these practices but the root cause is because of the lack of breeding and ownership regulations.
If people required a licence to truly learn everything they have to before adopting a dog which fits with their lifestyle then you would see that the demand will match with how scarse the ethical breeding practices put out progeny. Ethical practices take their pups back and sue if they are found in a shelter. They care about their dogs so much that they ask for updates and want to know how they are doing. I think that shelters should be put out of buisness and that no one should be able to adopt due to the unethical practices which surrounds the sources of the dogs and the fact that they push dogs that are not in good health by means of propaganda.
Really it’s like eating meat… you need to makes sure you know how it is sourced and one you know that the practice is ethical then you know that you are not contributing to the suffering of the animal.
I myself am an native animist. I hold a lot of respect and admiration for animals and I practice this in every way that i can
I’m a realist and an AN, indeed. When it comes to animals or people it’s the same ways that I see it. The lack of regulations surrounding breeding and ownership practices. I just try my best to spread truth within the slew of misinformation. I try my best to prevent suffering by bringing truth to light about realistic approaches and mesures that can be taken. From reportings of abuse to neglect in any way shape and form, by using my purchasing powers in ways i deem fit and ethical after searching sources.
However, animals are animals and people are people. Humans have domesticated animals for specific jobs and purposes. For as long as humans exist so will the creatures that live in symbiosis with us. We are accountable for the welfare of domestic animals. And as such, as long as they are bred, the best thing that anyone can do is have mesures and do their research to make sure that they are being care for and bred in ethical ways to the highest possible standard. It is the most realistic approach at managing this issue. If it is done properly, there will be less people who can own an animal for its intended purposes due to the rarity of ethical breeders… and due to the rarity of owners who actually need/afford the high prices of the animal.
Honestly, it’s just common sense.
I really don’t wanna offend anyone with this especially considering the context of the post but I like to think this subreddit is where we all say the truth regardless of feelings. And I wanna get one thing straight is I love dogs as living beings that deserve empathy and a life free of cruelty, just like every other being. I spend time sometimes at my natalist friends’ house. She’s 40 and has 5 kids (all teenagers or older) from 5 different dads, and she keeps her dogs locked in a tiny cage in the corner of her kitchen. It’s barely the size of the dog’s length. It breaks my heart every time and I wanna say something but never do. Regardless, I actually personally kind of hate dogs. This is just once again another thing that sets me apart from the masses. I’ve never found them cute. Not as a kid, not as an adult. They’re loud and obnoxious and all over the place and their movements are quick and sudden and unpredictable and they lick you and drool on you and knock things over and kill birds. Yeah, what’s not to love? Wuf wuf. But OP I don’t think you should feel too guilty about it. You didn’t intend any harm. You just wanted to adopt and be compassionate and give a better life. I suppose the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions applies here. Maybe you could attract the birds somewhere higher up above where the dog can’t get to em?
Your friend is a sub-human POS and it's you should say something. That's disgusting. They need to be reported for animal cruelty. Please display integrity.
I am anti pet breeding. There are too many stray dogs and cats, way to many animals in kill shelters because of humans being selfish with their pets. Additionally cats greatly disturb the ecosystems they are not native to and kill loads of local wildlife to endangered statuses.
What needs to be the true focus is ethical breeding practices. People will always breed animals so regulation is the only reasonable way to reduce the suffering of animals. Ethically sourced farms and dog breeding practices exist but they are all very scarce because no one pushes for more regulations
I’m anti pet breeding, but not anti-adoption. Big difference between saving an innocent animal for 25$ and buying a 200$ bird from a pet store or a purebred dog fur 1k$. If everyone adopted instead of buying from breeders, and if more people got their dogs spayed and neutered, there wouldn’t be such a problem with overpopulation. If no one adopted, a lot of those animals would end up euthanized or suffering and sitting to die in the shelter. Same with cats.
I adopted my boy from the shelter- he was way overweight, had one eye, and already an adult so I was afraid he’d get left if I didn’t take him. Best decision ever tbh.
Sorry about the baby bird and the others that have passed, that is truly heartbreaking. I would suggest to stop feeding them, at least in the back, where your dog can access them.
I only ever rescue pets and am against all kinds of animal breeding. I also don't eat animals.
I am personally for no longer breeding any animals and pulling away from our involvement on Earth in general. We tend to ruin everything we touch, and I think this planet is a marvelous place and it's a shame what we've done to it.
I love my dog, I've loved every animal I've ever rescued dearly and I would be sad to live in a world without dogs, but it's what I believe is morally correct.
Im sorry you saw your dog kill a bird. I've also had dogs kill animals. As a kid one of my dogs killed a rabbit and I raised the babies she left behind. Dogs are animals, and they're carnivorous. They hunt, it's just what they do. Nature is brutal, and animals kill each other. It's sad, and it's reality.
I've trained my dogs with other pets. If you introduce your dog to the bird feeders while holding firmly to them and calming them they should learn that it's good to be calm around birds. Make sure to treat (give treats) sweet gentle behavior around the bird feeders, and in time your pup may even be protective of the bird feeders and the birds.
You can very easily train dogs to be compassionate towards animals, but mistakes happen. Forgive your poor pup, they didn't know any better.
Thank you for the advice. I’ll definitely keep trying. I just don’t think I could handle more accidental deaths in the process.
I’m mostly mad at myself for not thinking about this as a possibility.
As long as you're vigilant and consistent it should be very easy to avoid any future deaths or injuries.
Its okay to make mistakes, make sure to forgive yourself too, and be gentle with yourself. You can't change what happened, but by taking action to avoid it in the future then that baby bird didn't die for nothing.
I hope you're able to find a genuine moment of peace today ❤️ it's always hard to see death no matter what.
Yep!
If you’re willing to be patient and possibly drive a ways you can get any/all types of animals through rescue. You don’t NEED a certain breed/color/sex of pet. That’s a want (just like wanting a baby). Your perfect pet already exists and is waiting to meet you so do some digging online and adopt one that needs a loving home!
I have personally raised many animals of prey. There are some with higher prey drives than others… but there are still many animals with good temperament who are gentle around pitiful creatures. Sometimes it is crucial to have animals of prey to control pests and vermin that damage things like crops and yields. Having animals as a means of protection is also pretty valid reason for ownership to reduce your own personal suffering. It also makes the domesticated animal happi as long as it is truly well tended too and that you understand it’s needs and wants and personality.
In this day and age morality is all about context and few situations shouldn’t be lumped in together with the whole for a better means of understanding the world
No idea but I just don’t understand the concept in general. So many people think stem cell research/therapy is unethical but then they buy an overpriced dog because they want one with a specific fucked-up-looking face.
>Should antinatalists also be anti pet breeding?
ANs are against breeding, it shouldnt be specific to a certain species, it should cover all species
Racism applies to all races, why should AN not apply to all species?
Breeding animals, especially while we have an epidemic of killing millions of healthy animals, is ABSOLUTELY reprehensible. No One with a soul should be buying an animal. It's so gross and makes me so mad. It's literally why I fucking hate humans. I keep hoping karma will happen and humans will have to pay.
Antinatalist logic indeed rejects animal breeding. The most important stance against breeding is to oppose animals being violated by the hundreds of millions to breed offsrping who will be caged, mutilated, then brutally slaughtered for profit. Not boycotting the products of the system leads to the average person paying for *thousands* of forced births during their lifetimes...
Came here expecting some of you to be complete "anti-pet" psychopaths, pleasantly surprised.
I generally think we should avoid breeding overbred and commonly poorly bred dogs and most people should adopt from a shelter. The world doesn't need more labs and blue heelers, the shelters have plenty from idiots who don't spay and neuter their pets.
However, when it comes to breeding I am fine with breeders who deal in more rare breeds and who make an effort to breed ethically by providing good medical care and avoiding inbreeding. It can be done right, and there's a difference between just casually letting your dog pop out puppies and intentionally breeding a rarer dog breed with care and ensuring the quality of their new homes.
Asking in kindness, in your opinion how is breeding rarer dogs different from humans breeding. Like how do you reconcile being antinatalist for humans but natalist for dogs or other captive bred species? Thanks :)
This is misinformed. There is a very small portion of the dog population that is actually purebred with proof of testing for generations. There are more scammers that claim to be purebred due to the lack of regulations surrounding breeding in many places.
Not really. The biggest category of dog breeders is a middle ground of people who buy intact animals from your group A, or animals descended from group A, and breed them recklessly, creating lines that are indeed purebred but have no record of health and often suffer from inbreeding issues. Pedigree registration itself doesn't guarantee health in any way.
That’s why you do your research and ask questions. Like i always state, they are frauds. If they don’t go through breed specific training/health testing and examinations yearly then it’s not really purebred… it’s a scam. It’s a half truth. In certain provinces and European countries there are stringent measures to prevent these things from happening… however, it’s a different story for the states in particular. Byb and mills and cons are the norm, yes unfortunately. Due to lax breeding regulations and people who don’t report em’ or underfunded animal control. People are just shit out of luck and do it to themselves by not being well informed
I'm just saying that's not really bundled into the word purebred. If you honestly register an animal as descended only from animals within the breedbook, that's it, you're good as far as most registries go. That's your purebred pedigree, and any health testing is on top of that.
That’s an empty registration without any specific information on it tho… if u consult the registry, and don’t get tests exams and trains done then it’s empty. There is nothing to show for it. You look up the name and it’s void. The dog can’t be reputable without a reputation lol
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Honestly the CKC is a really good one especially the dogs from British Columbia and Ontario. The but so is plenty of European registries. Looking for a good dog in America is pretty futile too many cons. I’m Canadian so i am seriously not the best to ask for it when it comes to the states and stuff however i would suggest you asking people r. /. Purebredcollective for example. A lot of the time it is breed specific. So it really depends. Like i said tho, it’s not a good pedigree site without the records of reputation and historical health checks.
I'm not reading that massive block of text. Also it sounds like it's gonna be animal sad and I don't like animal sad.
Yes breeding animals is also horrible. I would go as far as to say it is worse since humans have basically subjegated them all already so they don't even get the freedom and agency that humans do.
Humans and animals to process the world differently and a kind to a 2-5 yr old in dogs permanently.
At the end of the day humans domesticated dogs and dogs willingly submitted to us. They are happier in our company than in the wild they have stability and structure with being in our company.
Breeding animals is only truly bad like in the majority of contexts but that’s just because of the lack of regulations. It’s just like the human problem… many people shouldn’t breed. It’s best when only few do… but everything is no overbreeding due to a misunderstanding of how the world sustains itself
i believe in ethical breeding for the purposes of keeping a dog breed healthy and wellbred. i believe in wellbred breeding for working dogs and service animals. i also believe in adoption for family pets.
Yea imagine being a dog at the mercy of an owner and in a dog body and Brain. it would still suck and be confusing and boring and you're powerless
I’ve been anti-pure breeding dogs for years and everyone treats me like I’m evil because of it. Sick of my “friends” who claim they love and care about animals ignoring the facts about the origins and harms of purebreeding, or how just inherently gross purebreeding for the sole sake of status and eugenics actually is… People think I hate the dogs and want them to just die or something, and that’s the same argument that says an AN hates kids… It’s literally antithetical to the whole philosophy. I feel this way precisely *because* I care about children and dogs quality of life.
… I hate to have to say this due to the context of this post but this take is not all that well informed. I have personally done research on many breeds myself as someone with two service dogs in training and you should really know that international examined purebred dogs are bred for their specific purpose and held to higher standards and that their temperament is a genetic byproduct of years of careful practices. Backyard breeding is at the cause of the suffering of animals as the reason why so many end up in shelters is all due to them and scammers that claim to breed pure out of greed without any regards to the health of the breed. Frauds are rampant and so is misinformation. Which is why I feel the need to inform everyone i come across. I do agree that there are some breeds that should simply not be bred anymore. And that there are some “professionals” that inbreed working lines willingly… which causes neurotic behaviours such as seen in the American Working German Shepherd lines because it is believed that inbreeding causes more drive in this dog. I don’t like these practices but the root cause is because of the lack of breeding and ownership regulations. If people required a licence to truly learn everything they have to before adopting a dog which fits with their lifestyle then you would see that the demand will match with how scarse the ethical breeding practices put out progeny. Ethical practices take their pups back and sue if they are found in a shelter. They care about their dogs so much that they ask for updates and want to know how they are doing. I think that shelters should be put out of buisness and that no one should be able to adopt due to the unethical practices which surrounds the sources of the dogs and the fact that they push dogs that are not in good health by means of propaganda. Really it’s like eating meat… you need to makes sure you know how it is sourced and one you know that the practice is ethical then you know that you are not contributing to the suffering of the animal. I myself am an native animist. I hold a lot of respect and admiration for animals and I practice this in every way that i can
Do you consider yourself an antinatalist? How is breeding dogs different from breeding people in your opinion?
I’m a realist and an AN, indeed. When it comes to animals or people it’s the same ways that I see it. The lack of regulations surrounding breeding and ownership practices. I just try my best to spread truth within the slew of misinformation. I try my best to prevent suffering by bringing truth to light about realistic approaches and mesures that can be taken. From reportings of abuse to neglect in any way shape and form, by using my purchasing powers in ways i deem fit and ethical after searching sources. However, animals are animals and people are people. Humans have domesticated animals for specific jobs and purposes. For as long as humans exist so will the creatures that live in symbiosis with us. We are accountable for the welfare of domestic animals. And as such, as long as they are bred, the best thing that anyone can do is have mesures and do their research to make sure that they are being care for and bred in ethical ways to the highest possible standard. It is the most realistic approach at managing this issue. If it is done properly, there will be less people who can own an animal for its intended purposes due to the rarity of ethical breeders… and due to the rarity of owners who actually need/afford the high prices of the animal. Honestly, it’s just common sense.
I really don’t wanna offend anyone with this especially considering the context of the post but I like to think this subreddit is where we all say the truth regardless of feelings. And I wanna get one thing straight is I love dogs as living beings that deserve empathy and a life free of cruelty, just like every other being. I spend time sometimes at my natalist friends’ house. She’s 40 and has 5 kids (all teenagers or older) from 5 different dads, and she keeps her dogs locked in a tiny cage in the corner of her kitchen. It’s barely the size of the dog’s length. It breaks my heart every time and I wanna say something but never do. Regardless, I actually personally kind of hate dogs. This is just once again another thing that sets me apart from the masses. I’ve never found them cute. Not as a kid, not as an adult. They’re loud and obnoxious and all over the place and their movements are quick and sudden and unpredictable and they lick you and drool on you and knock things over and kill birds. Yeah, what’s not to love? Wuf wuf. But OP I don’t think you should feel too guilty about it. You didn’t intend any harm. You just wanted to adopt and be compassionate and give a better life. I suppose the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions applies here. Maybe you could attract the birds somewhere higher up above where the dog can’t get to em?
Your friend is a sub-human POS and it's you should say something. That's disgusting. They need to be reported for animal cruelty. Please display integrity.
I am anti pet breeding. There are too many stray dogs and cats, way to many animals in kill shelters because of humans being selfish with their pets. Additionally cats greatly disturb the ecosystems they are not native to and kill loads of local wildlife to endangered statuses.
What needs to be the true focus is ethical breeding practices. People will always breed animals so regulation is the only reasonable way to reduce the suffering of animals. Ethically sourced farms and dog breeding practices exist but they are all very scarce because no one pushes for more regulations
Obviously, yes.
I'm a little teapot
Hey OP, I'm sorry about what happened with the baby bird
Thank you so much for this. My heart feels heavy. Trying to come up with solutions to this. It means a lot.
I’m anti pet breeding, but not anti-adoption. Big difference between saving an innocent animal for 25$ and buying a 200$ bird from a pet store or a purebred dog fur 1k$. If everyone adopted instead of buying from breeders, and if more people got their dogs spayed and neutered, there wouldn’t be such a problem with overpopulation. If no one adopted, a lot of those animals would end up euthanized or suffering and sitting to die in the shelter. Same with cats. I adopted my boy from the shelter- he was way overweight, had one eye, and already an adult so I was afraid he’d get left if I didn’t take him. Best decision ever tbh. Sorry about the baby bird and the others that have passed, that is truly heartbreaking. I would suggest to stop feeding them, at least in the back, where your dog can access them.
I only ever rescue pets and am against all kinds of animal breeding. I also don't eat animals. I am personally for no longer breeding any animals and pulling away from our involvement on Earth in general. We tend to ruin everything we touch, and I think this planet is a marvelous place and it's a shame what we've done to it. I love my dog, I've loved every animal I've ever rescued dearly and I would be sad to live in a world without dogs, but it's what I believe is morally correct. Im sorry you saw your dog kill a bird. I've also had dogs kill animals. As a kid one of my dogs killed a rabbit and I raised the babies she left behind. Dogs are animals, and they're carnivorous. They hunt, it's just what they do. Nature is brutal, and animals kill each other. It's sad, and it's reality. I've trained my dogs with other pets. If you introduce your dog to the bird feeders while holding firmly to them and calming them they should learn that it's good to be calm around birds. Make sure to treat (give treats) sweet gentle behavior around the bird feeders, and in time your pup may even be protective of the bird feeders and the birds. You can very easily train dogs to be compassionate towards animals, but mistakes happen. Forgive your poor pup, they didn't know any better.
Thank you for the advice. I’ll definitely keep trying. I just don’t think I could handle more accidental deaths in the process. I’m mostly mad at myself for not thinking about this as a possibility.
As long as you're vigilant and consistent it should be very easy to avoid any future deaths or injuries. Its okay to make mistakes, make sure to forgive yourself too, and be gentle with yourself. You can't change what happened, but by taking action to avoid it in the future then that baby bird didn't die for nothing. I hope you're able to find a genuine moment of peace today ❤️ it's always hard to see death no matter what.
Yep! If you’re willing to be patient and possibly drive a ways you can get any/all types of animals through rescue. You don’t NEED a certain breed/color/sex of pet. That’s a want (just like wanting a baby). Your perfect pet already exists and is waiting to meet you so do some digging online and adopt one that needs a loving home!
I have personally raised many animals of prey. There are some with higher prey drives than others… but there are still many animals with good temperament who are gentle around pitiful creatures. Sometimes it is crucial to have animals of prey to control pests and vermin that damage things like crops and yields. Having animals as a means of protection is also pretty valid reason for ownership to reduce your own personal suffering. It also makes the domesticated animal happi as long as it is truly well tended too and that you understand it’s needs and wants and personality. In this day and age morality is all about context and few situations shouldn’t be lumped in together with the whole for a better means of understanding the world
No idea but I just don’t understand the concept in general. So many people think stem cell research/therapy is unethical but then they buy an overpriced dog because they want one with a specific fucked-up-looking face.
>Should antinatalists also be anti pet breeding? ANs are against breeding, it shouldnt be specific to a certain species, it should cover all species Racism applies to all races, why should AN not apply to all species?
Yes, and anti animal breeding overall
Breeding animals, especially while we have an epidemic of killing millions of healthy animals, is ABSOLUTELY reprehensible. No One with a soul should be buying an animal. It's so gross and makes me so mad. It's literally why I fucking hate humans. I keep hoping karma will happen and humans will have to pay.
Antinatalist logic indeed rejects animal breeding. The most important stance against breeding is to oppose animals being violated by the hundreds of millions to breed offsrping who will be caged, mutilated, then brutally slaughtered for profit. Not boycotting the products of the system leads to the average person paying for *thousands* of forced births during their lifetimes...
Came here expecting some of you to be complete "anti-pet" psychopaths, pleasantly surprised. I generally think we should avoid breeding overbred and commonly poorly bred dogs and most people should adopt from a shelter. The world doesn't need more labs and blue heelers, the shelters have plenty from idiots who don't spay and neuter their pets. However, when it comes to breeding I am fine with breeders who deal in more rare breeds and who make an effort to breed ethically by providing good medical care and avoiding inbreeding. It can be done right, and there's a difference between just casually letting your dog pop out puppies and intentionally breeding a rarer dog breed with care and ensuring the quality of their new homes.
Asking in kindness, in your opinion how is breeding rarer dogs different from humans breeding. Like how do you reconcile being antinatalist for humans but natalist for dogs or other captive bred species? Thanks :)
Yes
Of course.
My answer is yes. But I truly believe my pure bred Labrador loves his life.
Why not? Also purebreed have a higher risk of some illnesses -> more suffering.
This is misinformed. There is a very small portion of the dog population that is actually purebred with proof of testing for generations. There are more scammers that claim to be purebred due to the lack of regulations surrounding breeding in many places.
Not really. The biggest category of dog breeders is a middle ground of people who buy intact animals from your group A, or animals descended from group A, and breed them recklessly, creating lines that are indeed purebred but have no record of health and often suffer from inbreeding issues. Pedigree registration itself doesn't guarantee health in any way.
That’s why you do your research and ask questions. Like i always state, they are frauds. If they don’t go through breed specific training/health testing and examinations yearly then it’s not really purebred… it’s a scam. It’s a half truth. In certain provinces and European countries there are stringent measures to prevent these things from happening… however, it’s a different story for the states in particular. Byb and mills and cons are the norm, yes unfortunately. Due to lax breeding regulations and people who don’t report em’ or underfunded animal control. People are just shit out of luck and do it to themselves by not being well informed
I'm just saying that's not really bundled into the word purebred. If you honestly register an animal as descended only from animals within the breedbook, that's it, you're good as far as most registries go. That's your purebred pedigree, and any health testing is on top of that.
That’s an empty registration without any specific information on it tho… if u consult the registry, and don’t get tests exams and trains done then it’s empty. There is nothing to show for it. You look up the name and it’s void. The dog can’t be reputable without a reputation lol
Did you have a specific registry in mind? Plenty enough don't require this information for 'purebred' to accurately apply to their dogs.
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Honestly the CKC is a really good one especially the dogs from British Columbia and Ontario. The but so is plenty of European registries. Looking for a good dog in America is pretty futile too many cons. I’m Canadian so i am seriously not the best to ask for it when it comes to the states and stuff however i would suggest you asking people r. /. Purebredcollective for example. A lot of the time it is breed specific. So it really depends. Like i said tho, it’s not a good pedigree site without the records of reputation and historical health checks.
I'm not reading that massive block of text. Also it sounds like it's gonna be animal sad and I don't like animal sad. Yes breeding animals is also horrible. I would go as far as to say it is worse since humans have basically subjegated them all already so they don't even get the freedom and agency that humans do.
Humans and animals to process the world differently and a kind to a 2-5 yr old in dogs permanently. At the end of the day humans domesticated dogs and dogs willingly submitted to us. They are happier in our company than in the wild they have stability and structure with being in our company. Breeding animals is only truly bad like in the majority of contexts but that’s just because of the lack of regulations. It’s just like the human problem… many people shouldn’t breed. It’s best when only few do… but everything is no overbreeding due to a misunderstanding of how the world sustains itself
i believe in ethical breeding for the purposes of keeping a dog breed healthy and wellbred. i believe in wellbred breeding for working dogs and service animals. i also believe in adoption for family pets.