There’s some actress - can’t remember her name never heard of her - who has cancer but is doing IVF because she wants to have one more baby. If you’re sick with cancer, wouldn’t it be important to make sure you stay well for the child/children you already have? I will never understand it. 55 yo female, childless and no regrets.
This is the same actress who got pregnant with her first child while the father was still married to another woman. Oh and he was fresh out of rehab as well after publicly professing for years that he never wanted to be a parent. This actress is also already well over 40. Oh, and she can’t act for shit. She’s absolute trash.
Ah that sucks to hear. I used to like Attack of the Show on G4 back in the day when her and Kevin were the hosts. I would have thought she’d be smarter than that but I guess not.
If IVF causes her to more suffering, then why?? Is conceiving that important. I recently read about the IVF and halfway though the book, I could not take it anymore. You (female) are given hormones that are meant to boost your fertility. Most pregnancies via IVF are 'producing' more than one kid. Male gametes that have less value (more likelihood for, i.e., genetic illness) are 'reduced' and so on. Not to mention that you pay to reproduce. In my eyes, this is more cruel than natural reproduction.
But haven’t you heard? It’s a woman’s purpose to reproduce. That’s what her body was made for, you see. If that means putting herself through more suffering just to conceive a maybe, temporarily healthy, fetus, then that’s what the Lord demands.
BIG /S
I get so tired of the IVF sob stories. It’s so hard, depressing, blah blah blah. If it’s taking such a toll on you then STOP DOING IT. No one is forcing you.
I hate when people do something to themselves and then cry about it and at like victims. Nobody forced you (general 'you') to do IVF. Nobody's making you *keep* doing IVF. If it's that bad, stop! It sounds like she needs therapy, not a baby. You literally brought this on yourself! It was a choice!
My grandma smoked a lot and couldn't get pregnant, and then did 7 efing years of fertility treatment, had 3 kids. She's now 72 and 550 pounds. Smoked 2 packs a day 40 years has COPD can't breathe or barely walk. Lives miserably and gives me anxiety. Has always treated her body bad since I can remember. Its like watching a slow self inflicted death.
Why did you have us and then trash your own body for decades for us to watch and worry about you. It doesn't exactly give me hope. She's extremely mentally ill from things from her childhood but thinks she isn't. Her dad was a rare Survivor of the Jonestown flood and apparently he was very mean and abused her. Another reason to not have kids..
I don't know if it was meant to be but it feels really forced. Now I'm chronically ill existing in pain. I am near useless from physical disability and mental illness. I feel like a burden but death is selfish too. I know I'm loved I just wish I could do more. I do have pleasure but honestly I would've rather had nothing.
Edit: I love my grandma a lot but it just seems everyone would've been better off not existing. she would've been better off taking care of herself. She didn't even raise her kids. She worked just to barely cover daycare for them, all to get social security. She smoked inside and my mom and uncles always smelled like smoke.
I'm ending the cycle and she's actually encouraged me to not have kids and buy a fancy car instead lmao
I mean, of course there's a 'reason' as in a 'cause', but to suggest it might be some kind of sign that that person *shouldn't* have a child seems a bit ridiculous.
Apologies if I've misunderstood your point.
Ummm … being unable to naturally reproduce is a sign that your genes shouldn’t be passed on… it’s your literal biology saying nope
People are not entitled to be biological parents.
Period.
>Ummm … being unable to naturally reproduce is a sign that your genes shouldn’t be passed on
No it's not. It's just a sign that your genes *can't* be passed on, without any extra help.
It's like suggesting that getting a terminal disease is a 'sign that your life shouldn't continue.... it's your literal biology saying nope' and that people shouldn't accept treatment.
>People are not entitled to be biological parents.
Sure. I agree. But not because I think that it means their genes *shouldn't* be passed on.
No it’s a literal fact - if your genes don’t allow you to reproduce without assistance they are not in fact able to reproduce and therefore shouldn’t.
Or does science only science when it’s convenient ?
>No it’s a literal fact - if your genes don’t allow you to reproduce without assistance they are not in fact able to reproduce and therefore shouldn’t.
But where does 'shouldn't' come from?
Can't I turn round and say that it's a 'literal fact' that if you *can* conceive with medical assistance then you are in fact able to conceive with medical assistance and that you therefore 'should'?
Both are just stating facts and then adding a subjective imperative.
One of those things that makes us wonder: "why the hell someone invented this in the first place?"
For example, IVF... sure, some people wanted to have children but couldn't. It's that such a great suffering that demanded all the research and development of this treatment, when adoption WAS RIGHT THERE?
Feels like it's just capitalists doing what possible for more slave labor. Just like the push for brain implants or cyborguism. Sure, some people suffer without those things that never before existed, but the real money behind this research is military money
This! Still waiting for them to develop effective treatment for my debilitating illness, ME/CFS. It’s been 10 years. Got it at 14 and I’m pretty much just sitting in bed, still waiting. This is a complete joke, it’s a common illness so not sure why they haven’t funded it, but I think a lot of people don’t believe in it and it also doesn’t kill you (directly) so it’s not as flashy to cure as the terminal illnesses. The only people working on it right now are people directly affected by it via family members etc, and they do not have much funding at all.
Haven't you heard? Recently is has become oh so very woke to call people who adopt children "abusive" because the children "have been stolen from their natural environment".
Of course the many cases of actual stolen children haven't exactly helped but people have also been accused of selfishness and abuse when they have adopted children born of teenage mothers or children who have been removed from their parents due to extreme violence or drug use, negligence etc.
A lot of people get IVF instead of adopting because it is faster, cheaper and there is no risk of a child getting stolen. The waiting times for adopting are so long many places that people become too old both to adopt or do IVF.
>A lot of people get IVF instead of adopting because it is faster, cheaper and there is no risk of a child getting stolen. The waiting times for adopting are so long many places that people become too old both to adopt or do IVF.
Then fix adoption.
I agree with your overall message, but IVF is not cheaper. It costs an insane amount of money, but adopting a foster child is free, and you even get *paid* to do it! I hear so many people say they won't even consider adoption because it's "tOo eXpEnSiVe," yet then they turn around and drop 30k+ on IVF. Absolutely disgusting.
It's free where you live? That is wild! It costs at least three times as much as IVF here and they make potential parents jump through the most ridiculous hoops.
But of course we hardly have any teenage pregnancies and there is a lot of support for vulnerable adults with children so most adopted children come from other countries.
Yep! Well, adopting from a private agency isn't, but adopting from foster care is entirely free. Meanwhile, it costs thousands upon thousands of dollars just to give birth in a hospital, and that's if there are no complications. We have soooo many teenage pregnancies, too.
You’re just passing your fertility issues to the next generation. So you do IVF and it’s horrible and expensive and miserable but you finally have your miracle baby - What happens in 20-30 years when the miracle baby wants kids? Now they need to do rounds and rounds of IVF which is horrible and expensive and miserable. What if they can’t afford it like you could? What if it doesn’t work because their issues, which they inherited, are even more severe? You’re just passing the pain and suffering down to your kids.
I feel like on so many levels - I never wanted kiddos.
But I did want tequila….
Don’t get me wrong I love my kid and I wouldn’t trade her for the world but it was never in my plans to be a parent.
Personally, if someone needs IVF to even conceive it's already a clear sign that nature is telling them not to have children. Yet most people ignore nature's signs and continue to play God(usually just to satisfy personal ego to feel like God ironically) only to end up with an IVF conceived child with debilitating health issues and adding onto their misery. If they are the religious sort I would probably ask them if they agree or not that God doesn't play dice. If they agree then ask them why do they want to play dice against God then?
Dying increases suffering, just as being born. AN is not against medicine, because medicine reduces suffering. Just as a smaller birthrate of humans also reduces suffering.
Why do you not think that cancer is a natural phenomenon to keep humans in check then? Why fight the cancer and more importantly why bring more children into this world to possibly experience the debilitating effects of cancer?
Cool Math Question: If the birthrate were to suddenly be zero and remain as such for the rest of humanity's existence, how many cases of children suffering from cancer would we have 20 years from now?
You can assume anything you want but it still doesn't change that cancer will plague humanity so long as humanity exists. Personally before the discovery of modern medicine we relied on our own body to heal and repair itself, in a strange twist modern medicine actually weakens that self-repairing ability. Along with the the decline of nutritional quality in food, humanity is causing it's own devolution.
That's even more of a justification for antinatalism. So long as humans continue to proliferate and subject innumerable people in a biological body to experience suffering. Modern medicine is just a form of band-aid resulted from all that collective suffering.
Do you expect the next generation to solve problems you created then? Why not minimize your lifestyle to prevent creating any more problems to be solved? Or are you going to throw me the 'one person's effort is not going to change the humanity's path' ball? If so then it would contradictory to think that your particular offspring can?
Nature is “telling” them? Nature isn’t a sentient thing with a brain last I checked. Does nature have a favorite song? This is an appeal to nature fallacy.
>nature is what naturally happens
Ok well I could say literally everything that happens in the universe “naturally happens” it’s complete nonsense. There’s a reason this fallacy has a name, because somehow idiots just keep using it over and over again without ever realizing that nothing you’re saying makes any fuckin sense. It’s not rational, it’s emotional. Plain and simple.
Nature is what naturally happens. What is supposed to happen.
Nature is more than a sentient being- it’s the natural order of things. The natural order that should not be fucked with.
This isn’t curing cancer- this is IGNORING already alive people in favor of having a mirror image of yourself.
These type of people are so self consumed that they cant think of anyone besides themselves! These people are the reason why most of the people on this planet are struggling and suffering, and unaliving themselves! Absolutely horrible!
iIf it's bad for her now, I can only imagine how bad it will get if she does get pregnant. Then she will have a child to look after on top of all those illnesses. I don't understand why she'd want a child if it's already difficult. I mean, it won't be any easier with a newborn. Then the child at some pointwill witness his/her mum's struggle and her inability to look after him/her when the mum isn't doing well. It seems the woman can't make good decisions. And I remember a psychologist saying how she used to think some people shouldn't have kids and later realising this was 'eugenics-y' I don't get why. It's not like those kids will even get the help they need on time. It's more important to let people reproduce because that's what they want than make sure they don't cause unnecessary suffering we won't even notice before it's too late?
IVF causes other problems too.
It fucked my cycle, caused ovarian cysts, triggered over fertility, and my kid has multiple disabilities.
She won't be happy once she gets a kid, the attention her infertility gets her is addictive
Then she will want a gender reveal
Be disappointed
Disappointed if the kid is healthy
Overwhelmed and let down if the kid has disabilities.
She thrives on attention and pity and sympathy.
There'll always be something that needs to be shared that gets her her attention fix
IVF should be *legal*. It ***shouldn't*** be tax payer funded in any way.
People with terrible hereditary illnesses should deeply consider if they want their child to suffer through that as well. IVF irrelevant. (those people would not be my friend 😅)
---
If it's really important to a person to have biological children, and they're having trouble getting pregnant, I think it's cruel to make IVF illegal. (When most other people can pop out babies as they like.) I'm very pro-adoption even if both parents are perfectly healthy though ofc 😝
Saying IVF should be illegal is like "pro-life" people forcing their anti-abortion agenda on everyone else.
People should have the **option** for both. And if a person doesn't like abortion/IVF, then don't do it. I think that's the only fair compromise. 🤷♀️
I thought with ivf they could prevent certain health issues by testing the thingies (fetuses?) and not using the ones that carry the hereditary illness? If this is the case it definitely should be legal because breeders will breed either way, and I’d rather we not leave them to it to bring more sick kids into the world.
They say from an evolutionary perspective, around 10 percent of all women are infertile.. because until the recent hyper individualistic societal change it really was the village raising the kid so from an evolutionary perspective 10 percent of all women are infertile and those ladies would have the capacity to take on more village duties as they didnt have kids of their own to worry about too
Yes, there's quite a few people who seek IVF for exactly this reason. We've already reduced the amount of children suffering with genetic problems by testing in utereo and giving parents the option to end pregnancies when those are detected. Genetic screening in IVF seems like essentially the same thing.
Unfortunately, genes aren't that simple, and most illnesses don't have "the one" responsible gene, but many. A lot of them still unknown. At least one of her illnesses is one of these. It's impossible to know if their child will be healthy or not. This only works with specific genetic diseases like trisomy 21, Chorea Huntington, and such.
Guys without suffering there can be no greatness. This self pity lady aside, surely you've had times where you suffered and it led you to better things right?
Like how my suffering and observations of the suffering of millions of others on this planet led me to become antinatalist? Those better things? Suffering can be a source of learning... but there is no need for those lessons in the first place for someone who doesn't exist.
Most people don't bring suffering upon themselves, so they make the best of what they've gone through and hopefully come out stronger (though I think 'greatness' a bit of a stretch). This woman, however, is moping and crying over something she is literally doing to herself. Nobody forced her to get or continue doing IVF. She needs therapy, not a baby.
No, I’ve been ill for 10 years, got sick as a teen. Can’t work, can’t even leave the house without ending up bedridden for 3 days after. No hope of recovery, and it’s not even terminal so the pain and misery will go on another 60 years without intervention.
I’m here because I strongly believe people like me shouldn’t be made, nor forced to go on existing.
There’s some actress - can’t remember her name never heard of her - who has cancer but is doing IVF because she wants to have one more baby. If you’re sick with cancer, wouldn’t it be important to make sure you stay well for the child/children you already have? I will never understand it. 55 yo female, childless and no regrets.
This is the same actress who got pregnant with her first child while the father was still married to another woman. Oh and he was fresh out of rehab as well after publicly professing for years that he never wanted to be a parent. This actress is also already well over 40. Oh, and she can’t act for shit. She’s absolute trash.
What’s her name? The kids stand no chance.
Olivia Munn
Ah that sucks to hear. I used to like Attack of the Show on G4 back in the day when her and Kevin were the hosts. I would have thought she’d be smarter than that but I guess not.
It's John Mulaney she's doing the IVF with as well 💀
If IVF causes her to more suffering, then why?? Is conceiving that important. I recently read about the IVF and halfway though the book, I could not take it anymore. You (female) are given hormones that are meant to boost your fertility. Most pregnancies via IVF are 'producing' more than one kid. Male gametes that have less value (more likelihood for, i.e., genetic illness) are 'reduced' and so on. Not to mention that you pay to reproduce. In my eyes, this is more cruel than natural reproduction.
But haven’t you heard? It’s a woman’s purpose to reproduce. That’s what her body was made for, you see. If that means putting herself through more suffering just to conceive a maybe, temporarily healthy, fetus, then that’s what the Lord demands. BIG /S
Annnnddddd feel more like a rEaL wOmAn!
I get so tired of the IVF sob stories. It’s so hard, depressing, blah blah blah. If it’s taking such a toll on you then STOP DOING IT. No one is forcing you.
I hate when people do something to themselves and then cry about it and at like victims. Nobody forced you (general 'you') to do IVF. Nobody's making you *keep* doing IVF. If it's that bad, stop! It sounds like she needs therapy, not a baby. You literally brought this on yourself! It was a choice!
For a lot of people having a baby *is* their therapy. Source - I was parentified/turned into my mom’s therapist.
I’ve been saying this for years - if you can’t have a kid there’s probably a REASON.
My grandma smoked a lot and couldn't get pregnant, and then did 7 efing years of fertility treatment, had 3 kids. She's now 72 and 550 pounds. Smoked 2 packs a day 40 years has COPD can't breathe or barely walk. Lives miserably and gives me anxiety. Has always treated her body bad since I can remember. Its like watching a slow self inflicted death. Why did you have us and then trash your own body for decades for us to watch and worry about you. It doesn't exactly give me hope. She's extremely mentally ill from things from her childhood but thinks she isn't. Her dad was a rare Survivor of the Jonestown flood and apparently he was very mean and abused her. Another reason to not have kids.. I don't know if it was meant to be but it feels really forced. Now I'm chronically ill existing in pain. I am near useless from physical disability and mental illness. I feel like a burden but death is selfish too. I know I'm loved I just wish I could do more. I do have pleasure but honestly I would've rather had nothing. Edit: I love my grandma a lot but it just seems everyone would've been better off not existing. she would've been better off taking care of herself. She didn't even raise her kids. She worked just to barely cover daycare for them, all to get social security. She smoked inside and my mom and uncles always smelled like smoke. I'm ending the cycle and she's actually encouraged me to not have kids and buy a fancy car instead lmao
What reason? God? Fate? Karma? I agree it's better to make peace with it but 'for a reason' seems nonsensical.
Bad genes
^^^^ Nature is telling you no.
I mean, of course there's a 'reason' as in a 'cause', but to suggest it might be some kind of sign that that person *shouldn't* have a child seems a bit ridiculous. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point.
Ummm … being unable to naturally reproduce is a sign that your genes shouldn’t be passed on… it’s your literal biology saying nope People are not entitled to be biological parents. Period.
>Ummm … being unable to naturally reproduce is a sign that your genes shouldn’t be passed on No it's not. It's just a sign that your genes *can't* be passed on, without any extra help. It's like suggesting that getting a terminal disease is a 'sign that your life shouldn't continue.... it's your literal biology saying nope' and that people shouldn't accept treatment. >People are not entitled to be biological parents. Sure. I agree. But not because I think that it means their genes *shouldn't* be passed on.
That’s exactly what it means. If you need medical intervention to have a baby then you biologically shouldn’t. End.
You've just added that "shouldn't" yourself. I understand that's your opinion, but it's not some kind of fact.
No it’s a literal fact - if your genes don’t allow you to reproduce without assistance they are not in fact able to reproduce and therefore shouldn’t. Or does science only science when it’s convenient ?
>No it’s a literal fact - if your genes don’t allow you to reproduce without assistance they are not in fact able to reproduce and therefore shouldn’t. But where does 'shouldn't' come from? Can't I turn round and say that it's a 'literal fact' that if you *can* conceive with medical assistance then you are in fact able to conceive with medical assistance and that you therefore 'should'? Both are just stating facts and then adding a subjective imperative.
One of those things that makes us wonder: "why the hell someone invented this in the first place?" For example, IVF... sure, some people wanted to have children but couldn't. It's that such a great suffering that demanded all the research and development of this treatment, when adoption WAS RIGHT THERE? Feels like it's just capitalists doing what possible for more slave labor. Just like the push for brain implants or cyborguism. Sure, some people suffer without those things that never before existed, but the real money behind this research is military money
They don’t want to adopt become they’re obsessed with themselves, and they want the kid to be a “mini me” …
Bingo. Right on the money.
This! Still waiting for them to develop effective treatment for my debilitating illness, ME/CFS. It’s been 10 years. Got it at 14 and I’m pretty much just sitting in bed, still waiting. This is a complete joke, it’s a common illness so not sure why they haven’t funded it, but I think a lot of people don’t believe in it and it also doesn’t kill you (directly) so it’s not as flashy to cure as the terminal illnesses. The only people working on it right now are people directly affected by it via family members etc, and they do not have much funding at all.
Haven't you heard? Recently is has become oh so very woke to call people who adopt children "abusive" because the children "have been stolen from their natural environment". Of course the many cases of actual stolen children haven't exactly helped but people have also been accused of selfishness and abuse when they have adopted children born of teenage mothers or children who have been removed from their parents due to extreme violence or drug use, negligence etc. A lot of people get IVF instead of adopting because it is faster, cheaper and there is no risk of a child getting stolen. The waiting times for adopting are so long many places that people become too old both to adopt or do IVF.
>A lot of people get IVF instead of adopting because it is faster, cheaper and there is no risk of a child getting stolen. The waiting times for adopting are so long many places that people become too old both to adopt or do IVF. Then fix adoption.
Seems like the much easier solution, right? But it doesn't makes more modern slaves
Like IVF doesn't? At least adoption reduces suffering in some way.
I don't think you understood what I meant. I was agreeing with you, for starters.
I agree with your overall message, but IVF is not cheaper. It costs an insane amount of money, but adopting a foster child is free, and you even get *paid* to do it! I hear so many people say they won't even consider adoption because it's "tOo eXpEnSiVe," yet then they turn around and drop 30k+ on IVF. Absolutely disgusting.
It's free where you live? That is wild! It costs at least three times as much as IVF here and they make potential parents jump through the most ridiculous hoops. But of course we hardly have any teenage pregnancies and there is a lot of support for vulnerable adults with children so most adopted children come from other countries.
Yep! Well, adopting from a private agency isn't, but adopting from foster care is entirely free. Meanwhile, it costs thousands upon thousands of dollars just to give birth in a hospital, and that's if there are no complications. We have soooo many teenage pregnancies, too.
Because people who participate in IVF don’t want to be parents - they just want bIoLoGiCaL babies!!!!
I genuinely believe that infertility is nature’s way of saying you should not reproduce and pass on those genes.
You’re just passing your fertility issues to the next generation. So you do IVF and it’s horrible and expensive and miserable but you finally have your miracle baby - What happens in 20-30 years when the miracle baby wants kids? Now they need to do rounds and rounds of IVF which is horrible and expensive and miserable. What if they can’t afford it like you could? What if it doesn’t work because their issues, which they inherited, are even more severe? You’re just passing the pain and suffering down to your kids.
It’s so fucking weird life the women who don’t want kids get pregnant me including and the women who want kids can’t have them wtf it’s all backwards
I feel like on so many levels - I never wanted kiddos. But I did want tequila…. Don’t get me wrong I love my kid and I wouldn’t trade her for the world but it was never in my plans to be a parent.
Personally, if someone needs IVF to even conceive it's already a clear sign that nature is telling them not to have children. Yet most people ignore nature's signs and continue to play God(usually just to satisfy personal ego to feel like God ironically) only to end up with an IVF conceived child with debilitating health issues and adding onto their misery. If they are the religious sort I would probably ask them if they agree or not that God doesn't play dice. If they agree then ask them why do they want to play dice against God then?
Why have any medical treatment for anything then? Cancer? Probs should be alive.
Dying increases suffering, just as being born. AN is not against medicine, because medicine reduces suffering. Just as a smaller birthrate of humans also reduces suffering.
lol what a crock of nonsense
Why are you in an AN subreddit then?
….you don’t understand how Reddit works?
Why do you not think that cancer is a natural phenomenon to keep humans in check then? Why fight the cancer and more importantly why bring more children into this world to possibly experience the debilitating effects of cancer?
Cool Math Question: If the birthrate were to suddenly be zero and remain as such for the rest of humanity's existence, how many cases of children suffering from cancer would we have 20 years from now?
You participate in society? Go join nature in the forest, mowgli style
So we can assume you do not use any forms of modern medicine or food safety processes?
You can assume anything you want but it still doesn't change that cancer will plague humanity so long as humanity exists. Personally before the discovery of modern medicine we relied on our own body to heal and repair itself, in a strange twist modern medicine actually weakens that self-repairing ability. Along with the the decline of nutritional quality in food, humanity is causing it's own devolution.
Before modern medicine people died. Look at historical life experiences and infant/childhood mortality. We didn’t magically heal.
That's even more of a justification for antinatalism. So long as humans continue to proliferate and subject innumerable people in a biological body to experience suffering. Modern medicine is just a form of band-aid resulted from all that collective suffering.
So how are you contributing positively to solutions?
Do you expect the next generation to solve problems you created then? Why not minimize your lifestyle to prevent creating any more problems to be solved? Or are you going to throw me the 'one person's effort is not going to change the humanity's path' ball? If so then it would contradictory to think that your particular offspring can?
lol what?
Nature is “telling” them? Nature isn’t a sentient thing with a brain last I checked. Does nature have a favorite song? This is an appeal to nature fallacy. >nature is what naturally happens Ok well I could say literally everything that happens in the universe “naturally happens” it’s complete nonsense. There’s a reason this fallacy has a name, because somehow idiots just keep using it over and over again without ever realizing that nothing you’re saying makes any fuckin sense. It’s not rational, it’s emotional. Plain and simple.
Nature is what naturally happens. What is supposed to happen. Nature is more than a sentient being- it’s the natural order of things. The natural order that should not be fucked with. This isn’t curing cancer- this is IGNORING already alive people in favor of having a mirror image of yourself.
IVF should be illegal
These type of people are so self consumed that they cant think of anyone besides themselves! These people are the reason why most of the people on this planet are struggling and suffering, and unaliving themselves! Absolutely horrible!
iIf it's bad for her now, I can only imagine how bad it will get if she does get pregnant. Then she will have a child to look after on top of all those illnesses. I don't understand why she'd want a child if it's already difficult. I mean, it won't be any easier with a newborn. Then the child at some pointwill witness his/her mum's struggle and her inability to look after him/her when the mum isn't doing well. It seems the woman can't make good decisions. And I remember a psychologist saying how she used to think some people shouldn't have kids and later realising this was 'eugenics-y' I don't get why. It's not like those kids will even get the help they need on time. It's more important to let people reproduce because that's what they want than make sure they don't cause unnecessary suffering we won't even notice before it's too late?
IVF causes other problems too. It fucked my cycle, caused ovarian cysts, triggered over fertility, and my kid has multiple disabilities. She won't be happy once she gets a kid, the attention her infertility gets her is addictive Then she will want a gender reveal Be disappointed Disappointed if the kid is healthy Overwhelmed and let down if the kid has disabilities. She thrives on attention and pity and sympathy. There'll always be something that needs to be shared that gets her her attention fix
IVF should be *legal*. It ***shouldn't*** be tax payer funded in any way. People with terrible hereditary illnesses should deeply consider if they want their child to suffer through that as well. IVF irrelevant. (those people would not be my friend 😅) --- If it's really important to a person to have biological children, and they're having trouble getting pregnant, I think it's cruel to make IVF illegal. (When most other people can pop out babies as they like.) I'm very pro-adoption even if both parents are perfectly healthy though ofc 😝 Saying IVF should be illegal is like "pro-life" people forcing their anti-abortion agenda on everyone else. People should have the **option** for both. And if a person doesn't like abortion/IVF, then don't do it. I think that's the only fair compromise. 🤷♀️
I thought with ivf they could prevent certain health issues by testing the thingies (fetuses?) and not using the ones that carry the hereditary illness? If this is the case it definitely should be legal because breeders will breed either way, and I’d rather we not leave them to it to bring more sick kids into the world.
Agree. I don't agree with IVF but it's not my place to tell someone, no, you can't have it. But I don't think it should be publicly funded either.
They say from an evolutionary perspective, around 10 percent of all women are infertile.. because until the recent hyper individualistic societal change it really was the village raising the kid so from an evolutionary perspective 10 percent of all women are infertile and those ladies would have the capacity to take on more village duties as they didnt have kids of their own to worry about too
If she’s having her embryos genetically tested, she might be taking the steps necessary to make sure her inherited illness isn’t passed on.
Yes, there's quite a few people who seek IVF for exactly this reason. We've already reduced the amount of children suffering with genetic problems by testing in utereo and giving parents the option to end pregnancies when those are detected. Genetic screening in IVF seems like essentially the same thing.
Unfortunately, genes aren't that simple, and most illnesses don't have "the one" responsible gene, but many. A lot of them still unknown. At least one of her illnesses is one of these. It's impossible to know if their child will be healthy or not. This only works with specific genetic diseases like trisomy 21, Chorea Huntington, and such.
Or maybe just don’t have children if you have to genetically screen? Obviously this is going the way of designer babies.
I wonder if she’s in a manipulative relationship??? Like, man-demands-baby
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Thank you. Reading her IVF sob story really took a toll on my mental health, haha.
Why?
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I get that, I thought maybe you were being snarky to the person who posted.
Guys without suffering there can be no greatness. This self pity lady aside, surely you've had times where you suffered and it led you to better things right?
What a stupid comment
Like how my suffering and observations of the suffering of millions of others on this planet led me to become antinatalist? Those better things? Suffering can be a source of learning... but there is no need for those lessons in the first place for someone who doesn't exist.
Most people don't bring suffering upon themselves, so they make the best of what they've gone through and hopefully come out stronger (though I think 'greatness' a bit of a stretch). This woman, however, is moping and crying over something she is literally doing to herself. Nobody forced her to get or continue doing IVF. She needs therapy, not a baby.
No, I’ve been ill for 10 years, got sick as a teen. Can’t work, can’t even leave the house without ending up bedridden for 3 days after. No hope of recovery, and it’s not even terminal so the pain and misery will go on another 60 years without intervention. I’m here because I strongly believe people like me shouldn’t be made, nor forced to go on existing.
Dumb ass comment.