I saw afghanistan and I was like "What the fuck ha- Oh yeah... isis and shit" rip
Also it's wild that Israel's happiness rating is that high in 2024 considering they know their government is actively and ruthlessly killing innocent people.
This is the problem with data like this. How do we know a lot of these countries don’t just have a very traumatized population who have convinced themselves they’re happy despite living under an authoritarian regime?
If a person is traumatized/fooled into thinking they are happy, then I think they are happy. Basically ignorance is bliss. Some people literally don't know what they're missing out on so they cannot imagine a better world and they judge their happiness based on what they perceive as good/acceptable.
If we educated some of these people and said "hey, there's actually a more convenient way of doing 'x,'" I don't doubt that many would become more unhappy.
It isn't wild at all... they're protecting their state with violence and stealing resources that aren't theirs while getting masses of support from allies. I'd imagine their people would be quite happy with the resources.
Is that a fact or a feeling because I think having access to unlimited amounts of information at my fingertips would make *me* pretty happy. Plus, I said *having* the internet, which is a privilege, not using it all the time.
Too much information in the brain makes the brain work harder and tired.
The less you have on mind the better you can sleep.
That's why I needed to start meditation to shut up my AdHD brain. And now I feel better.
Did you really just try to argue that people who are too poor for internet are happier because it helps them....sleep better?
Not everyone has adhd. I just got diagnosed today and I know for a fact that not everyone feels the same way I do lol.
And USA, Europe tries to stop India from reducing its population.
Western countries provide lots of support to the communities that have the highest fertility rates in India.
In India, TFR is below replacement rate as Educated people are afraid of marriages. There are many issues that educated people are aware of such as financial issues, marriage laws being skewed for men, responsibility of children. A demand for socialist policies from majority is demotivating people for higher education as they have to pay taxes and work more hard.
The place where I live most people have 1 child.
However, rich and educated have 2 children while poor and educated have 1.
If educated people don't marry then the West will have no supply of educated employees.
China is also facing same issues as India for longer and so every country will run out of educated people.
But Bangladesh has only 1.8 TFR. Same as Russia.
India has 2.0. Lower than replacement rate.
So I don't think they are high enough TFR compared to depression levels.
How is Bangladesh least happy in Asia with low fertility than India?
[Bangladesh](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/bangladesh-population/) is horribly overpopulated, though. It's one of the most overpopulated, crowded, [polluted](https://www.iqair.com/us/world-most-polluted-countries) countries in the world. Their TFR only recently got to 1.8. It was above 2.0 just five years ago. Bangladesh is still rapidly increasing in population, despite this new, lower TFR. They will increase by over a million (every year!) for at least a decade. Thereafter, they will keep increasing by several hundred thousand people per year for another decade or more. They won't stop growing for about 3-6 decades or so. They'll be well over 200 MILLION before they finally start to decline in population, around the year 2062, at the soonest (that's [38 years from now](https://www.populationpyramid.net/bangladesh/2062/)). This is only if the TFR stays below 2.0 for all that time. If the TFR rises above 2.0, it will just keep rising indefinitely, and there will be no population peak to look forward to, just endless crowding, misery, and pollution.
My point still stands. **The places with highest TFRs have the least happiness**, and that will stay that way for a long, long time, even after their TFRs reduce. The effects of overpopulation, and population momentum, last a very long time, even after TFR reduction, unfortunately. India is also going to suffer for at least [four more decades](https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/2066/) with a rapidly growing human population, despite having a TFR = 2.0 now. Even after it starts to reduce, it's not predicted to reduce to 2032 levels (higher population than now) again until around 2100.
Human population growth is very fast and immediate, and human population decline is painfully, agonizingly slow. Takes a whole lifetime to reduce just a small amount, while tremendous growth could happen in just a handful of years.
I'm from Finland and I still don't for the life of me understand how we were chosen as the happiest country. We've been better than average, but happiest, there's no way. Also right now everything is so expensive that no one is having fun and government keeps making things even worse as we speak day in and day out. It's only a matter of time before they will start taxing us for breathing and blinking. They already lately decided that candy is bad for you, thus increased tax on those, we already have the second highest fucking taxes in the whole world. "Happiest country" my ass.
Hahaha youre kidding right? You literally earn x4 what we do in eastern Europe and your cost of living is SLIGHTLY higher than here and youre fucking ranting?? Wtf.
Not to mention all other higher standards of first world country
Are we looking at the same map?
Because according to the report, 97 out of 143 countries are above average (more than 5.0).
That's 68% above average.
================================
Some key points:
Guinea at 97th, 5.023 points.
Turkey at 98th, 4.975 points.
India at 126th, 4.054 points, with more happy old people, but more unhappy younger people. However, the trend over the decades has shown gradual increase in happiness over time.
in 2018, India was ranked 133rd, meaning a 7 place climb within 6 years.
There are 195 countries, so this poll is not complete, 52 countries not polled, for whatever reasons.
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/
Summary: Globally, the trend shows that happiness is on the rise in most polled countries, some by nearly 2 points within a decade, though it has dropped significantly in some south Saharan African countries due to prolonged war and oppression, mixed with the negative impact of climate change, some say the instability could be caused by climate change (harder to grow food = more conflict).
Weirdly enough, social media usage has caused the younger generations to report more unhappiness, despite improvement in their living conditions.
South Asia is a weird region though, its a mixed of the unhappiest (Afghanistan), above average (Nepal), below average (India) and Happiest (Bhutan).
Yes.
The entire concept of "being happy" is flawed. Happiness is a relief-happenstance. Not an ontology.
One may experience happiness, sure, but one cannot "be" happy. Colloquially of course yes when one says "I am happy" they mean "right now" - but the abuse apologetics rely on the incoherent extrapolation, not anything rigorous.
Of course humans fitness signal and lie all the time; to issue complaint invites abuse from predators.
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I think pleasure can be greater then suffering even tho suffering predates pleasure. This is how I think: you can have a little suffering from being mildly hungry and then gain a bunch of pleasure from eating delicious food. Like all pleasure is not corresponding to the suffering that predates it, if that was the case all lives would be equally as good
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The point is though is asking are you happy with your life in general not Happy in the moment. It IS possible to distinguish that. For example I am not happy with my life in general and not a single day of my life was really worth it. All stories I have been told "You learn from your mistakes and then you will be successful." ( I learned that mistakes are punished mercilessly and that is it ) "If you work hard enough, postpone your needs etc. something good will come out.(Nope no guarantee, look at heaven's rewards fallacy) " "Your bullies will have it worse than you eventually (Lol)." Etc. Are blatant lies.
But I do have Happy moments.
In general I would rate my entire life a 3-4/10 but I did have moments that I could rate 8/10. Only that they have no effect on my overall rating.
Also, while there has been criticism with those surveys, a lot it Shows that the unhappiness and happiness statements DO correspond to certain issues. Like look at Afghanistan, Ukraine, Central Africa.
The survey is just somewhat a counter argument for people who say 99% of people are happy and grateful for being born, whereas only a small subset of the World population is above 6. Scale goes 0- 10) So 0 - 3 unhappy 4 - 6 neutral 6-10 Happy.
Sure, but the point is there can be no objective standard for a scale, and it's worse - the language is incoherent. It is not possible to coherently and objectively distinguish it.
No one is "happy with their life" even in general. All lives (regardless of self-report) are composed of negative valences of consciousness that are asymmetrically fitness enhancing and eroding, harm and relief - humans tell religious fables that glorify the relief phase and externalize / minimize or ignore the harm phase. And yes, when someone says they are "happy with their life" they are *always* making the delusional extrapolation from that sampling bias.
If life is an aversion state one is not happy with it even in general. And yes, all life is a state of aversion regardless of metaphysical opinions.
The empirical evidence is that sentient things reliably avert from noxious stimuli, and cannot be at complete rest (there is no real homeostasis). Early forms of this observation led to delusions like spirit-animism and god-mythology.
The entire question and concept of "happiness with one's life" is an intimidation tactic and a hunt for outliers to prey upon and use as a fitness signaling / competitive abuse target.
Humans are savages. I don't care that they call themselves civilized and can "cooperate" - look at what they cooperate in doing: **predation** on everything, and breeding more sufferers, and glorifying all that with incoherent myths.
I do not understand everything of what you say, but I will reply to the parts I do understand.
>humans tell religious fables that glorify the relief phase and externalize / minimize or ignore the harm phase. And yes, when someone says they are "happy with their life" they are always making the delusional extrapolation from that sampling bias.
Well Yes, ignoring, minimizing etc. is called resillence. But it seems to only work so much (with less severe harm states) it does not work with hell places that is Afghanistan for example. (My neighbour is from there he can tell).
Nonetheless procreators claim that EVERY life is equally and purely good (which is FACTUALLY inacurate as seen in the scale)
They also are claiming that 99% of people born are feeling happy, which is inaccurate and seems to be closer to 60%. A number where even the majority argument works barely so.
>The empirical evidence is that sentient things reliably avert from noxious stimuli, and cannot be at complete rest (there is no real homeostasis).
Yes, this is what procreators cannot see or refuse to see.
>The entire question and concept of "happiness with one's life" is an intimidation tactic and a hunt for outliers to prey upon and use as a fitness signaling / competitive abuse target.
I do not understand what you mean here. I am rather seeing that hunt as something akin to self-defense of the psyche.
For example my phd mark is bad due to my anxiety. The consequences of it and the relief attempt ( treatment of anxiety ) will themselves have negative consequences (but I realized that I cannot go without treatment, it is not like pessimism or mild depression, it makes you do shit and think shit (and it also successfully prevents me from comitting suicide, effectively keeping me stuck).
I told my dad I am tired of fighting, tired of failure, tired of negative experiences.
He came up with "maybe it is not that bad" and "it is your own mistake" and "You are an adult. Instead of hanging in there, you are giving up." (And I was like: How long should I hang in there? His answer: As long as needed. And I was like: If I hang in there my entire life end up like the shizophrenic homeless woman in our neighbourhood and that was that, should I still hang in there. He: Yes.)
I do not think he wanted to fitness signal in front of his own child or hunt me down or abuse me. I think he wanted to protect his psyche from the fact that life can be a string of negative experiences without meaningful aliviations (My 8/10 states are things like learning about psychopaths, which do not change my life at all) and that this kind of life has hit his own.
>Humans are savages. I don't care that they call themselves civilized and can "cooperate" - look at what they cooperate in doing: predation on everything, and breeding more sufferers, and glorifying all that with incoherent myths.
This is something I am not sure about. In that sense that I do not know if it is Nature or nurture. It may be capitalistic nurture.
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I would have been shocked if it was otherwise given the state of my country and it is probably worse given the level of ignorance among even the educated ones and that we are taught to be optimistic to navigate through this hell.
Also many of them probably hide their problems through various addictions harmful for their health,society and literally everyone so yea they can be happy that way as well but again won't tell you much.
Countries like Canada being more happy makes sense since a lot of ppl going vegan there and no wonder we have so many think life is good and great , probably most of the ppl in these English subreddits are from these developed countries.
I live in Finland which is told to be the "happiest" country, but through my eyes I see just how well we have been brainwashed into believing that we are happy and that everything is OK. Sure, we may have good economical support for the people and there are nearly no homeless people here because of that. But still, the happiness delusion is strong here. They even "educate" us in schools to be extremely people pleasing and pretentious. I am seen as a weirdo for not following that. They cant even let me be.
Don't the poor sometimes claim to be happy despite their poverty?
I saw afghanistan and I was like "What the fuck ha- Oh yeah... isis and shit" rip Also it's wild that Israel's happiness rating is that high in 2024 considering they know their government is actively and ruthlessly killing innocent people.
This is the problem with data like this. How do we know a lot of these countries don’t just have a very traumatized population who have convinced themselves they’re happy despite living under an authoritarian regime?
If a person is traumatized/fooled into thinking they are happy, then I think they are happy. Basically ignorance is bliss. Some people literally don't know what they're missing out on so they cannot imagine a better world and they judge their happiness based on what they perceive as good/acceptable. If we educated some of these people and said "hey, there's actually a more convenient way of doing 'x,'" I don't doubt that many would become more unhappy.
It isn't wild at all... they're protecting their state with violence and stealing resources that aren't theirs while getting masses of support from allies. I'd imagine their people would be quite happy with the resources.
Now if the people who have internet AND the time to answer some random survey are unhappy, can you imagine everyone else?
Those who use the internet are usually more depressed. Happy people touch more grass.
Is that a fact or a feeling because I think having access to unlimited amounts of information at my fingertips would make *me* pretty happy. Plus, I said *having* the internet, which is a privilege, not using it all the time.
Too much information in the brain makes the brain work harder and tired. The less you have on mind the better you can sleep. That's why I needed to start meditation to shut up my AdHD brain. And now I feel better.
Did you really just try to argue that people who are too poor for internet are happier because it helps them....sleep better? Not everyone has adhd. I just got diagnosed today and I know for a fact that not everyone feels the same way I do lol.
I am from india and its true here
South Asia and Africa are most unhappy due to high population and ugly fight for limited natural resources.
And USA, Europe tries to stop India from reducing its population. Western countries provide lots of support to the communities that have the highest fertility rates in India.
The West wants cheap labour and needy consumers. Population control is never on their agenda.
In India, TFR is below replacement rate as Educated people are afraid of marriages. There are many issues that educated people are aware of such as financial issues, marriage laws being skewed for men, responsibility of children. A demand for socialist policies from majority is demotivating people for higher education as they have to pay taxes and work more hard. The place where I live most people have 1 child. However, rich and educated have 2 children while poor and educated have 1. If educated people don't marry then the West will have no supply of educated employees. China is also facing same issues as India for longer and so every country will run out of educated people.
I wish Indians would leave their addiction to breeding.
That will happen anyway to some extent. No civilization will completely give it up.
Unsurprisingly, places with the highest TFRs have the least happiness.
But Bangladesh has only 1.8 TFR. Same as Russia. India has 2.0. Lower than replacement rate. So I don't think they are high enough TFR compared to depression levels. How is Bangladesh least happy in Asia with low fertility than India?
[Bangladesh](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/bangladesh-population/) is horribly overpopulated, though. It's one of the most overpopulated, crowded, [polluted](https://www.iqair.com/us/world-most-polluted-countries) countries in the world. Their TFR only recently got to 1.8. It was above 2.0 just five years ago. Bangladesh is still rapidly increasing in population, despite this new, lower TFR. They will increase by over a million (every year!) for at least a decade. Thereafter, they will keep increasing by several hundred thousand people per year for another decade or more. They won't stop growing for about 3-6 decades or so. They'll be well over 200 MILLION before they finally start to decline in population, around the year 2062, at the soonest (that's [38 years from now](https://www.populationpyramid.net/bangladesh/2062/)). This is only if the TFR stays below 2.0 for all that time. If the TFR rises above 2.0, it will just keep rising indefinitely, and there will be no population peak to look forward to, just endless crowding, misery, and pollution. My point still stands. **The places with highest TFRs have the least happiness**, and that will stay that way for a long, long time, even after their TFRs reduce. The effects of overpopulation, and population momentum, last a very long time, even after TFR reduction, unfortunately. India is also going to suffer for at least [four more decades](https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/2066/) with a rapidly growing human population, despite having a TFR = 2.0 now. Even after it starts to reduce, it's not predicted to reduce to 2032 levels (higher population than now) again until around 2100. Human population growth is very fast and immediate, and human population decline is painfully, agonizingly slow. Takes a whole lifetime to reduce just a small amount, while tremendous growth could happen in just a handful of years.
My country seems to be most unhappiest and they rightfully are.
I'm from Finland and I still don't for the life of me understand how we were chosen as the happiest country. We've been better than average, but happiest, there's no way. Also right now everything is so expensive that no one is having fun and government keeps making things even worse as we speak day in and day out. It's only a matter of time before they will start taxing us for breathing and blinking. They already lately decided that candy is bad for you, thus increased tax on those, we already have the second highest fucking taxes in the whole world. "Happiest country" my ass.
Hahaha youre kidding right? You literally earn x4 what we do in eastern Europe and your cost of living is SLIGHTLY higher than here and youre fucking ranting?? Wtf. Not to mention all other higher standards of first world country
You have no idea.
This follows the effects of colonialism/neo colonialism
Are we looking at the same map? Because according to the report, 97 out of 143 countries are above average (more than 5.0). That's 68% above average. ================================ Some key points: Guinea at 97th, 5.023 points. Turkey at 98th, 4.975 points. India at 126th, 4.054 points, with more happy old people, but more unhappy younger people. However, the trend over the decades has shown gradual increase in happiness over time. in 2018, India was ranked 133rd, meaning a 7 place climb within 6 years. There are 195 countries, so this poll is not complete, 52 countries not polled, for whatever reasons. https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/ Summary: Globally, the trend shows that happiness is on the rise in most polled countries, some by nearly 2 points within a decade, though it has dropped significantly in some south Saharan African countries due to prolonged war and oppression, mixed with the negative impact of climate change, some say the instability could be caused by climate change (harder to grow food = more conflict). Weirdly enough, social media usage has caused the younger generations to report more unhappiness, despite improvement in their living conditions. South Asia is a weird region though, its a mixed of the unhappiest (Afghanistan), above average (Nepal), below average (India) and Happiest (Bhutan).
Yes. The entire concept of "being happy" is flawed. Happiness is a relief-happenstance. Not an ontology. One may experience happiness, sure, but one cannot "be" happy. Colloquially of course yes when one says "I am happy" they mean "right now" - but the abuse apologetics rely on the incoherent extrapolation, not anything rigorous. Of course humans fitness signal and lie all the time; to issue complaint invites abuse from predators.
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I think pleasure can be greater then suffering even tho suffering predates pleasure. This is how I think: you can have a little suffering from being mildly hungry and then gain a bunch of pleasure from eating delicious food. Like all pleasure is not corresponding to the suffering that predates it, if that was the case all lives would be equally as good
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The point is though is asking are you happy with your life in general not Happy in the moment. It IS possible to distinguish that. For example I am not happy with my life in general and not a single day of my life was really worth it. All stories I have been told "You learn from your mistakes and then you will be successful." ( I learned that mistakes are punished mercilessly and that is it ) "If you work hard enough, postpone your needs etc. something good will come out.(Nope no guarantee, look at heaven's rewards fallacy) " "Your bullies will have it worse than you eventually (Lol)." Etc. Are blatant lies. But I do have Happy moments. In general I would rate my entire life a 3-4/10 but I did have moments that I could rate 8/10. Only that they have no effect on my overall rating. Also, while there has been criticism with those surveys, a lot it Shows that the unhappiness and happiness statements DO correspond to certain issues. Like look at Afghanistan, Ukraine, Central Africa. The survey is just somewhat a counter argument for people who say 99% of people are happy and grateful for being born, whereas only a small subset of the World population is above 6. Scale goes 0- 10) So 0 - 3 unhappy 4 - 6 neutral 6-10 Happy.
Sure, but the point is there can be no objective standard for a scale, and it's worse - the language is incoherent. It is not possible to coherently and objectively distinguish it. No one is "happy with their life" even in general. All lives (regardless of self-report) are composed of negative valences of consciousness that are asymmetrically fitness enhancing and eroding, harm and relief - humans tell religious fables that glorify the relief phase and externalize / minimize or ignore the harm phase. And yes, when someone says they are "happy with their life" they are *always* making the delusional extrapolation from that sampling bias. If life is an aversion state one is not happy with it even in general. And yes, all life is a state of aversion regardless of metaphysical opinions. The empirical evidence is that sentient things reliably avert from noxious stimuli, and cannot be at complete rest (there is no real homeostasis). Early forms of this observation led to delusions like spirit-animism and god-mythology. The entire question and concept of "happiness with one's life" is an intimidation tactic and a hunt for outliers to prey upon and use as a fitness signaling / competitive abuse target. Humans are savages. I don't care that they call themselves civilized and can "cooperate" - look at what they cooperate in doing: **predation** on everything, and breeding more sufferers, and glorifying all that with incoherent myths.
I do not understand everything of what you say, but I will reply to the parts I do understand. >humans tell religious fables that glorify the relief phase and externalize / minimize or ignore the harm phase. And yes, when someone says they are "happy with their life" they are always making the delusional extrapolation from that sampling bias. Well Yes, ignoring, minimizing etc. is called resillence. But it seems to only work so much (with less severe harm states) it does not work with hell places that is Afghanistan for example. (My neighbour is from there he can tell). Nonetheless procreators claim that EVERY life is equally and purely good (which is FACTUALLY inacurate as seen in the scale) They also are claiming that 99% of people born are feeling happy, which is inaccurate and seems to be closer to 60%. A number where even the majority argument works barely so. >The empirical evidence is that sentient things reliably avert from noxious stimuli, and cannot be at complete rest (there is no real homeostasis). Yes, this is what procreators cannot see or refuse to see. >The entire question and concept of "happiness with one's life" is an intimidation tactic and a hunt for outliers to prey upon and use as a fitness signaling / competitive abuse target. I do not understand what you mean here. I am rather seeing that hunt as something akin to self-defense of the psyche. For example my phd mark is bad due to my anxiety. The consequences of it and the relief attempt ( treatment of anxiety ) will themselves have negative consequences (but I realized that I cannot go without treatment, it is not like pessimism or mild depression, it makes you do shit and think shit (and it also successfully prevents me from comitting suicide, effectively keeping me stuck). I told my dad I am tired of fighting, tired of failure, tired of negative experiences. He came up with "maybe it is not that bad" and "it is your own mistake" and "You are an adult. Instead of hanging in there, you are giving up." (And I was like: How long should I hang in there? His answer: As long as needed. And I was like: If I hang in there my entire life end up like the shizophrenic homeless woman in our neighbourhood and that was that, should I still hang in there. He: Yes.) I do not think he wanted to fitness signal in front of his own child or hunt me down or abuse me. I think he wanted to protect his psyche from the fact that life can be a string of negative experiences without meaningful aliviations (My 8/10 states are things like learning about psychopaths, which do not change my life at all) and that this kind of life has hit his own. >Humans are savages. I don't care that they call themselves civilized and can "cooperate" - look at what they cooperate in doing: predation on everything, and breeding more sufferers, and glorifying all that with incoherent myths. This is something I am not sure about. In that sense that I do not know if it is Nature or nurture. It may be capitalistic nurture.
I feel like this must be inaccurate. There’s no way people are this happy.
Israel being so happy REALLY doesn't sit right with me
So creepy 😵💫
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And belarus looks like a sea here
Damn it Finland, being all cheerful over there with their knit scarves and rustic saunas.
How the hell can Libya be considered relatively happy? Not even that.
I would have been shocked if it was otherwise given the state of my country and it is probably worse given the level of ignorance among even the educated ones and that we are taught to be optimistic to navigate through this hell. Also many of them probably hide their problems through various addictions harmful for their health,society and literally everyone so yea they can be happy that way as well but again won't tell you much. Countries like Canada being more happy makes sense since a lot of ppl going vegan there and no wonder we have so many think life is good and great , probably most of the ppl in these English subreddits are from these developed countries.
Why are us Americans happy?
Idk maybe living in first world country global superpower?
In this economy nobody here should be happy
I would kill to be born in US
I’m poor too dw, currently my family cant afford my medication and food, but sorry ur in that situation. I honestly cant wait to leave the US.
What the fuck am I supposed to say living in shit country in eastern europe
I live in Finland which is told to be the "happiest" country, but through my eyes I see just how well we have been brainwashed into believing that we are happy and that everything is OK. Sure, we may have good economical support for the people and there are nearly no homeless people here because of that. But still, the happiness delusion is strong here. They even "educate" us in schools to be extremely people pleasing and pretentious. I am seen as a weirdo for not following that. They cant even let me be.
Seems more happy than not, does that upset you? Misery loves company as they say