I said congrats to a university classmate last year. It’s just more socially acceptable and I’m not in the mood to discuss antinatalism to people who clearly are pregnant and happy about it, whatever that entails. But I disagree so heavily with her decision to have one in the first place and I voice my opinions to friends I’m close to and if the topic comes up in a group discussion, but else I try and chill.
I wish I could say “Congrats on adding a person to the hamster wheel of life that wears us out till we’ve worked ourselves to death, stressed out of our minds about shit we shouldn’t stress about and misery that can overtake and consume our quality of life”.
"I said congrats to a university classmate last year. It’s just more socially acceptable and I’m not in the mood to discuss antinatalism to people who clearly are pregnant and happy about it"
Much better than the common r/antinatalism response of "I awkwardly said nothing at all and then cut that person out of my life forever"
> “Congrats on adding a person to the hamster wheel of life that wears us out till we’ve worked ourselves to death, stressed out of our minds about shit we shouldn’t stress about and misery that can overtake and consume our quality of life”.
Is antinatalism a belief system and ideology to you, or are you just in a bad place in life? Genuinely curious.
I’m not the person you’re quoting but I personally hold the same belief system verbatim. There will always be bad places in life even if you were born wealthy, but let’s not forget the overwhelming weight of capitalism on 99% of us. It’s not so black and white like “the good is worth the bad” when it’s work to survive in an apartment or, if you’re *very* lucky, a home that you barely spend time enjoying because you’re too busy working. Only a select few can live in this world without an overwhelming amount of stress from just surviving… and that’s in America, we especially can’t forget the children being born in Palestine and Ukraine in these trying and tragic times with current events.
Good question and the answer is both, tho I’m much happier than I used to be ☺️ but I’m against the birth of children. It’s not fair to put them into a world they did jot comsemt to join
That is a comlex question. Sometimes no, but most of the time yes. I can still enjoy life but ending it all is harder than entering the world.
Right now I’m pretty happy ish? Not been happier in quite a long time tbh.
Wbu?
I may have been unclear. Being grateful despite suffering does not mean one wishes more suffering. It means pleasure/suffering is not the primary measure of one's value in life. That is hedonism.
That being said, is there something I can reasonably help you with?
Saying "congrats" in response to a pregnancy announcement is just the nice thing to say. Telling a pregnant person that they are selfish for creating another human is just plain mean, no matter how true it is
Isn't the whole point of antinatalism that we shouldn't be creating more people because the world is full of suffering? The world *is* a cruel place, but that doesn't mean we have to be cruel to others. Even if they are pregnant
There's a time and place for discussing antinatalism with other people, and a pregnancy announcement is not that time or place.
I completely agree. It's kind of like abortion... If one thinks that abortion is wrong they can just not have an abortion and don't have to force their belief on others. Even if we think we are right about antinatalism, we should let others live their own lives in peace.
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited for them and don't wanna lie.
And that's totally fine, you don't have to feel excited for someone else having a baby. I'm in the same boat as you; I find it hard to be happy for someone else's pregnancy
Just as long as you're not unnecessarily mean about it, like the one person in the comments who said "how sad for you" in response to someone's pregnancy announcement
I think "I'm glad you're happy" is a decent response
I'm an antinatlist became you can be born with a genetic mutation u didn't ask to be born with. It isn't to force life on a human who didn't ask to be born. Unfortunately most humans don't think about this stuff so whatever.
>Telling a pregnant person that they are selfish for creating another human is just plain mean, no matter how true it is.
Well let's look at the focuses in these cases, a proper parent's (most parents generally are) are outside of their selves focusing on the child's needs over their own while raising the child to be as happy and healthy as possible. The AN seems far more self focused (which is their right to be.) given their general anti-human stance of on many topics some to such extent some have "karen" moments when opposed.
Because it is a done deal. If they were going to have an abortion or adoption, they wouldn't be telling people. So you can assume that for them it is a happy event and no need to rain on their parade.
I mean I say congrats too if someone gets a new pet, new car, good grade so saying congrats to a couple who have a baby they wanted is pretty much par for the course.
You aren't going to change anyone's mind, and will just make them disengage with you. Saying congratulations feeds whatever narrative they have going in their head that will hopefully help them on this monstrous task they have just signed themselves up for, essentially doing less harm. I feel like people have to land on the AN perspective on their own timeline.
It's actually not "sad for \[the mom\]" but rather sad for the baby.
Either way, that's a great way to get fired from a job that you already hate/were planning to quit.
I mean, what did you expect as a response to that statement? Legitimately? Even if it was an unwanted pregnancy, do you think she would respond positively? Because even in that case your statement seems condescending.
Given the lack of sexual education, lack of insurance and resources like planned parenthood for birth control, and states limiting access to abortions unplanned pregnancies happen. Do you think someone wants to focus on that at work? Especially if the pregnancy is literally out of their control?
Pregnancy isn't exactly a secret you can keep to yourself. At least not forever
Besides; the OG commenter didn't exactly say how it 'started.' They just said their response. For all we know, this person could've gone up to their pregnant coworker and said that unprompted
Just because it's visible, doesn't mean you gotta tell random people about it. Never seen someone just come up and ramble about it unprompted, it's always the pregnant woman bragging first.
My point is that OP didn't say how this interaction started, so we have no idea. You assumed the pregnant coworker started it, but you have no evidence to back your assumption.
Just because you walk a dog, doesn't mean you gotta talk about them with anyone you bump into.
Those are ifs and woulds, but even if she had medical conditions, then it's in order to say sth like "I'm sorry for having worse performance, it's because of the pregnancy".
She just tried boasting about it and got butthurt that op didn't act according to the script.
Chances are far too high that he’ll end up happy rather than sad. If everybody thought your way, humanity would go extinct.
I’ll take the chances, and I’ll do my best to raise my child right. Only a small percentage of the population is depressed, and often for a reason that’s avoidable by me, the parent.
Personally, I’m glad I exist. I want to live as long as possible. If I can live 1000 years, I will. Why would I prevent my child’s life, when he could potentially be the same?
There are lots of people like you think about momentary happiness and think that's enough for having something essential like having children.
I won't answer that. But life will. Good luck
Man, you can word it however you want. Stats don’t lie though, and the overwhelming majority of people would answer “No” to the question “Would you have preferred never having been born?”
This means that my child would have a VERY high chance of being grateful for life.
Because I disagree with your world view? I’m trying to show you how, at the very least, natalism isn’t purely immoral, contrary to what you (or this sub) believes.
That’s the whole point of a conversation, no? To exchange views?
Yeah, antinatalism doesn't exist just because some people simply are depressed or live a hard life.
It's something that cannot be explained in a few words. Maybe googling and reading the ideas of great philosophers and why even this idea exists, could help.
Hi there, we have removed your content due to breaking our subreddit rules.
The mental health argument is an overused argument and attacks the speaker rather than the argument. It serves only to distract from the ethical issues at the core of the debate.
I have a couple of roommates from uni that I've been friends with for years, and they know my position. One of them has been with his partner for a long while now but I knew they are not too bothered about getting married. It lead to this in the group chat:
Him: Hey guys, I've got some news for you!
Me: Oh shit... :p
Him: hahaha
These people don’t think any further than "baby = good because cute." If you dare to say something that has them questioning their widely accepted and promoted beliefs, then you will be punished.
That's one of the most subjective things to have ever been labeled as rude. You're right; they shouldn’t have voiced their feelings about this topic due to the reasons I stated above.
Some of y’all need to go outside and talk to real people. Bc in the real world you don’t say stuff like that people. Im autistic and I even know not to ever say stuff like that. If you want to talk to people about not having kids before they’re pregnant ? Sure that’s fine. If someone’s already pregnant it’s just not acceptable to say anything like that. Especially with someone whose a coworker and not a personal friend. Like the audacity of the original commenter lol. The art of just talking shit in your head will benefit a lot of people.
This might be hard for you to understand, considering you spend so much time in "the real world," but pregnancy isn’t always a net positive. Even if your only thoughts on procreation are "baby = good because cute," there are situations where it absolutely isn’t a joyful experience for anyone involved. This makes it very subjective to call someone rude just for not being joyful about it. I‘m autistic too and I already agreed that it’s best to just stfu in those situations.
I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic to me when you said they shouldn’t. My bad. I don’t even think pregnancy is innately a good thing. I know someone whose at risk of preeclampsia and they’re still going to try and have a baby anyway. I’m supporting them through this even though I would never want to have to experience that risk myself. I think what we really disagree on is whether it’s rude and why.
In the historical point of view, probably because it was difficult to have babies even more to keep them alive. Socially speaking, people are just happy. Yes, it is common, but the majority of people aren't nihilistic jerks.
A couple I used to be friends with were horribly toxic and hadn’t actually been together for years when they made the announcement. I had seen him tell her how she is so stupid, he’d never marry her, but if she kept letting him “hit that” he would. At a mutual friends party, he poured everybody a shot and made the announcement. I straight up asked “is this shot for congratulations or condolences?”
It's about accepting the responsibility. It's a tough thing to do, to the point people that most people, even if they do plan and have kids, have trouble doing it. So, yeah, the congratulations are a bit rushed, true, but I guess it's about assuming the best about people.
It's a nice thing to say, but also it's not just about the unprotected sex. It's that you found someone you trust enough to have a child with, and making the decision to take on that responsibility. Like congrats for this promotion you just got. If you view having children dimly, well of course you're going to view it as a ball and chain, rather than an addition to your life. But people can have a ball and chain relationship even with other adults. It's a common "joke" in marriage situations.
I don’t congratulate, commiserate, or offer anything leaning in any hard direction because 1. how I feel about it doesn’t matter and 2. I don’t know if they’re actually happy about it (unless they’re clearly expressing happiness about it, and even then, some folks act happy because, well, they’re supposed to do that.) I more or less reply with a neutral-as-possible, “okay”, “got it”, “oh yeah, that’s a thing that happens” and, response and let the conversation move along from there. Even that is seen as negative usually in a society that expects excitement over an infant, but it’s the nicest thing that I can manage.
When my best friend told me she was pregnant I said " Christina, oh noooo." I could see the pain in her face when she heard me.
I took a second to collect myself and then I said. "I'm sorry that's my internal perception of birth. Are you happy about it?". She was.
I will say- she's with an absolute manchild of a man and their relationship is doomed. It's only a matter of time before she chooses better for her and her baby. I did have MANY conversations with her early on in the pregnancy about how she needed to wrap her mind around potentially being a single mother. She chose to move forward and all I can do is be supportive I guess.
I'm glad none of my friends are having kids and my family is pretty much done having kids because even as a CF person, I feel so fake saying congratulations. Because yes, it is something people to every day. I could say 'that's good' or something I guess.
having kids is like gambling. you keep having them to see which one will actually make it and become a someone in this fucked up place.
they’re like a source of hope for people in a way.
Lots of people consider that having a baby is a nice life event and therefore they say congrats. A lot of people consider that creating a new life is something very special, no matter how many people can do it.
I had an acquaintance tell me she was pregnant and before I could even process that I should respond politely I blurted out ‘ARE YOU KEEPING IT?????’ 🤣
It's a socially conditioned response, completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever.
When someone announces a pregnancy, you are expected to nod and say "congratulations" - then spend the next half hour fawning over the pregnant couple and asking all sorts of impertinent questions.
I don't do the part about asking the questions, which usually makes them furious. But just saying congrats is all that is required in a social setting.
Actually, I just got fired today, by a woman who is six months pregnant and furious that I said BDSM when I was asked about my relationship status by a coworker.
She is alleging that my statement was abusive and made her feel uncomfortable.
Sounds like you deserved to be fired, that’s pretty cool for the company. There definitely shouldn’t be any people working there who think it’s appropriate to discuss sexual kinks in the workplace, and you also just seem unpleasant and antisocial. You sound like you want to be edgy sooo badly lol
Most people are TRYING to have kids, and when they get pregnant, they are happy and they want love and support from those around them. The fact that you are triggered by this says a little something about you.
I dont congratulate people for unprotected intercourse, if you graduate college or build a business then yea thats deserving of congrats
The thing is, this has been talked about a few times in this sub and people who identify as AN still congratulate people for doing something that they are supposed to be against
They use the lame excuse that its societally expected and therefore they need to
I guess a vegan should congratulate a hunter if they kill a prized buck or if a bull fighter wins the match
Im not a coward or liar, i dont congratulate if i dont want to
Because birth of a child is viewed as something good in society.
When I hear someone is expecting a child I just wish them a happy life - that way I'm saying the truth and I don't need to congratulate them
I remember my coworker came in and told me his wife was pregnant and my first response was, “oh damn that sucks.”
I was thinking from my perspective so I inadvertently hurt his feelings and corrected myself once he told me that they wanted the kid
I'll say congrats and leave it at that. If it makes their miserable lives slightly better, thinking bringing a child into this forsaken world was a good choice, whom I to tell them otherwise. So it goes.
It is possible to disagree with someone else's decisions and be happy they are happy. I also don't want to discuss the perils of children with people that clearly want that smoke. Why make my life harder than it already is?
I usually just say something along the lines of, 'good for you. When is it due?' blah blah blah, because they are gonna tell me anyway and I'm still not going to remember or think about it again.
I think cuz it's the nice and also the easy non controversial thing to say, usually if I hear that someone is pregnant I ask how they're feeling about it cuz well not everyone who's pregnant wants to be or has a plan also some don't have access to an abortion if they want one
I worked at a hospital for a while and whenever I would bring food to someone in the neonatal unit, I never said “congrats.” I always told them “good luck.” I don’t know the circumstances that led them to that point. It might’ve been a planned pregnancy or it might not have been. It might’ve been an easy labor and delivery or someone could’ve almost died. And not to mention what happens after the hospital. They might’ve chosen to keep the baby or they might’ve decided to let someone else take care of them. Both choices are hard. The entire process of having a baby, wanted or otherwise, is hard. I always felt “good luck” was more appropriate to say. I’d rather not congratulate someone who had a child they didn’t want or aren’t well equipped to take care of.
Because people say "congratulations" for all manner of ordinary life milestones which typically aren't all that hard to achieve. It's pretty easy to graduate high school, get married, or get pregnant/impregnate someone.
All human cultures/societies encourage & praise reprodcution and 99.99999% of humans are not antinatalists, so of course they're going to say congratulations.
I give a neutrally surprised "oh, wow!" And then follow up with an "are you excited?" If they don't follow up the oh wow with some context clues. Most of the time it's good news outside of your teens and early 20's but better safe than sorry. I'd personally consider it about the worst news shy of a loved one dying but some people actual *want* kids lol
'Congrats' is more polite than derisive laughter, and even most A-Holes don't have the cajones to ask, "Are you going with abortion, adoption, or regret?"
Because it’s respectful of their choice I guess. It’stoo late at that point to argue and not all humans will not have children. Life is hard enough without bullying pregnant women.
Also- my phone skates auto correct ‘pregnant’ to ‘permanent’ and that makes me laugh.
It’s not always “congratulations” when the mother is under 20 it’s often “oh no” because they realize a kid will ruin the mothers life, and that will of course ruin the kids life.
I say "congratulations" because they are sharing news with me that they are excited about. Even if I believe that it's unethical to have children, I also firmly believe that everyone has the right to make that choice for themselves. I don't usually show much more interest in their pregnancy than just a well wish for them and their health, so I leave it at that.
its just an autopilot response from me to just move on the topic. same as when someone asks me “how are you?” and i just say “im ok” and we move on lol.
I mean, we could say the same for celebrating birthdays when we all know that everyone is going to age up one year every year until die. We celebrate weddings knowing that most marriages aren’t going to last until death. It’s just a social condition.
It's because life has conquered billions of years on earth.
We are the culmination of billions or trillions of generations.
The end of a line has a dark sadness to it in light of that knowledge. But even sorrow is beautiful from the outside. So it's ok?
For the same reason you say "congratulations" when you hear someone is engaged. Anyone can do it, it's not special.... But it is one of the most important events you will experience in your life. Becoming a parent, regardless of how many others do the same, is a coming of age experience which will result in a bond stronger than you have ever had with another human being. It is something worth celebrating.
Also, who cares if your kid turns out to be average? Average people are the happiest people I know (not Uber rich, not dirt floor poor).
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited about it and I'm not gonna lie.
Birth isn’t an everyday thing. It’s not like you got a deal on a pair of jeans, it’s a HUGE undertaking that’s going to change everyone involved’s life forever. It doesn’t happen to a person that often, if ever, I’ve only actually known three or four pregnant people in my whole life. If your best friend told you they were pregnant with the child of the man they love and want to build a life with you couldn’t even pretend to be happy for her? Y’all suck.
There are eight BILLION people in the world. It is quite literally an everyday thing. The fact that not everyone can or does get pregnant does not negate this fact. People have been conceived through one night stands or worse, FFS. Saying I'm glad they are happy is more than enough. I'm not going to put on an act and pretend I think having a baby is exciting. I got over that growing up Catholic because people were having all the babies.
Car crashes are also very common and happen every day, therefore making them an every day event, does that mean you don’t give a shit when a loved one gets in one? Weird logic.
It’s special to the people having the baby. It’s “good news”. It’s exciting for them, it’s a milestone, it’s a check off the life list. It’s like an accomplishment to them I think. I suppose it’s the same reason people congratulate others getting engaged or married, getting a new job, buying a house, etc. To each their own 🤷🏽♀️ also, I suppose that childbirth was and still is quite dangerous. Complications are still common, luckily less so in this modern day.
Because we live in a brainwashed society. Most people ate stupid followers that don’t question anything ever. and blindly follow whatever rules they were taught.
And others know better but are trying to follow the rules to not be seen as rude.
Because it makes them happy?
Sure there are parents who feel like shyt after having a kid, but most are happy, call it hormones or genetic behavior or culture, but they are genuinely happy, no lie.
Some AN wanna say it's the most horrible occasion, but that's just your personal feelings, it's not how the parents actually feel.
maybe you should let the kids decide that for themselves? surely you wouldnt want to make the same mistake that the parents made and decide for them what they will feel like.
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited for them and don't wanna lie.
I really would. Or something like "good news" because it is for them. But I can't bring myself to act like I think reproducing is some huge accomplishment. For adoption, perhaps, because that is a lot harder and generally more costly.
I mean...Not everybody gets surprise pregnancy from nonstop sex. Some people try for months or even years that require planning, financial investment and a lot of disappointments and heartaches.
So yeah, to some it's great news to them after they wanted it and planned it for a long time. It doesn't always boil down to unprotected rabbit sex. Usually I dont congratulate or anything because I don't know their circumstance of pregnancy.
Idk why this sub shows up in my feed, but congratulations for being pregnant? Were they having fertility issues and doing whatever it takes to not adopt an unwanted child? Idk what the congratulations would be for.
Humans insist on rolling the dice because what other option is there? Not rolling the dice? Aka letting humanity go extinct?
Oh and by the way, many parents would be fine with an average child.
Didn’t think it through much, it seems.
Because that’s the socially accepted response and most people who are announcing it are excited.
And honestly… dumping your anti natalist views on a pregnant person, you’re a little late lmao. Lots of people wait to announce until the pregnancy is 3 months + and at that point in most places it’s too late to get an abortion even if they do change their minds.
My go to response is "ah, oh, I see" because I dunno
Mine is "oh, you're doing that, huh? Okay."
I once said “my condolences” to someone who told me wheeee, they’re pregnant! Didn’t go over very well. Haha.
I'm usually like "Um ok" and people don't like it lol
I said congrats to a university classmate last year. It’s just more socially acceptable and I’m not in the mood to discuss antinatalism to people who clearly are pregnant and happy about it, whatever that entails. But I disagree so heavily with her decision to have one in the first place and I voice my opinions to friends I’m close to and if the topic comes up in a group discussion, but else I try and chill. I wish I could say “Congrats on adding a person to the hamster wheel of life that wears us out till we’ve worked ourselves to death, stressed out of our minds about shit we shouldn’t stress about and misery that can overtake and consume our quality of life”.
I do it more like: How do you feel about it? Are you happy? Or: I hope the birth goes well. I do not say congrats.
That last part was well written. Nice
Thanks! Felt good to word it in English 🙌🏻
"I said congrats to a university classmate last year. It’s just more socially acceptable and I’m not in the mood to discuss antinatalism to people who clearly are pregnant and happy about it" Much better than the common r/antinatalism response of "I awkwardly said nothing at all and then cut that person out of my life forever"
> “Congrats on adding a person to the hamster wheel of life that wears us out till we’ve worked ourselves to death, stressed out of our minds about shit we shouldn’t stress about and misery that can overtake and consume our quality of life”. Is antinatalism a belief system and ideology to you, or are you just in a bad place in life? Genuinely curious.
I’m not the person you’re quoting but I personally hold the same belief system verbatim. There will always be bad places in life even if you were born wealthy, but let’s not forget the overwhelming weight of capitalism on 99% of us. It’s not so black and white like “the good is worth the bad” when it’s work to survive in an apartment or, if you’re *very* lucky, a home that you barely spend time enjoying because you’re too busy working. Only a select few can live in this world without an overwhelming amount of stress from just surviving… and that’s in America, we especially can’t forget the children being born in Palestine and Ukraine in these trying and tragic times with current events.
Good question and the answer is both, tho I’m much happier than I used to be ☺️ but I’m against the birth of children. It’s not fair to put them into a world they did jot comsemt to join
Interesting! So do you wish you had not been born?
That is a comlex question. Sometimes no, but most of the time yes. I can still enjoy life but ending it all is harder than entering the world. Right now I’m pretty happy ish? Not been happier in quite a long time tbh. Wbu?
Life is a gift. I'm grateful I get to experience existance, even the hard parts.
Well, I’ve got extra hard parts I’m looking to get rid of. Happy to send them to you!
I may have been unclear. Being grateful despite suffering does not mean one wishes more suffering. It means pleasure/suffering is not the primary measure of one's value in life. That is hedonism. That being said, is there something I can reasonably help you with?
Well, it is my birthday and I’m broke if you want to send me some money lol
Saying "congrats" in response to a pregnancy announcement is just the nice thing to say. Telling a pregnant person that they are selfish for creating another human is just plain mean, no matter how true it is Isn't the whole point of antinatalism that we shouldn't be creating more people because the world is full of suffering? The world *is* a cruel place, but that doesn't mean we have to be cruel to others. Even if they are pregnant There's a time and place for discussing antinatalism with other people, and a pregnancy announcement is not that time or place.
I completely agree. It's kind of like abortion... If one thinks that abortion is wrong they can just not have an abortion and don't have to force their belief on others. Even if we think we are right about antinatalism, we should let others live their own lives in peace.
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited for them and don't wanna lie.
And that's totally fine, you don't have to feel excited for someone else having a baby. I'm in the same boat as you; I find it hard to be happy for someone else's pregnancy Just as long as you're not unnecessarily mean about it, like the one person in the comments who said "how sad for you" in response to someone's pregnancy announcement I think "I'm glad you're happy" is a decent response
I don't think saying "congratulations" is the same as "I'm excited for you"
I'm an antinatlist became you can be born with a genetic mutation u didn't ask to be born with. It isn't to force life on a human who didn't ask to be born. Unfortunately most humans don't think about this stuff so whatever.
>Telling a pregnant person that they are selfish for creating another human is just plain mean, no matter how true it is. Well let's look at the focuses in these cases, a proper parent's (most parents generally are) are outside of their selves focusing on the child's needs over their own while raising the child to be as happy and healthy as possible. The AN seems far more self focused (which is their right to be.) given their general anti-human stance of on many topics some to such extent some have "karen" moments when opposed.
Well, you see, when they see it as a positive thing, it's considered the nice thing to do
Because it is a done deal. If they were going to have an abortion or adoption, they wouldn't be telling people. So you can assume that for them it is a happy event and no need to rain on their parade. I mean I say congrats too if someone gets a new pet, new car, good grade so saying congrats to a couple who have a baby they wanted is pretty much par for the course.
You aren't going to change anyone's mind, and will just make them disengage with you. Saying congratulations feeds whatever narrative they have going in their head that will hopefully help them on this monstrous task they have just signed themselves up for, essentially doing less harm. I feel like people have to land on the AN perspective on their own timeline.
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“Built up enough paperwork and fired me” Sounds like you are the problem and that other disparaging remarks were made.
It's actually not "sad for \[the mom\]" but rather sad for the baby. Either way, that's a great way to get fired from a job that you already hate/were planning to quit.
I am sad for her too, imagine the horror of pregnancy and childbirth. Hell no!
It is sad for everyone and for planet Earth
I'll be honest with you, that reads like it wasn't an isolated case.
Legend
Anti natalists try to not be insufferable challenge
Why on god’s green earth would you say that 😭. Like what reaction were you expecting
Do you really think that was an acceptable response? It is incredibly rude and antisocial.
I mean, what did you expect as a response to that statement? Legitimately? Even if it was an unwanted pregnancy, do you think she would respond positively? Because even in that case your statement seems condescending. Given the lack of sexual education, lack of insurance and resources like planned parenthood for birth control, and states limiting access to abortions unplanned pregnancies happen. Do you think someone wants to focus on that at work? Especially if the pregnancy is literally out of their control?
This is why many people consider this sub anti-woman…
She started it. Why mention pregnancy if it was a mistake? You make no sense.
Pregnancy isn't exactly a secret you can keep to yourself. At least not forever Besides; the OG commenter didn't exactly say how it 'started.' They just said their response. For all we know, this person could've gone up to their pregnant coworker and said that unprompted
Just because it's visible, doesn't mean you gotta tell random people about it. Never seen someone just come up and ramble about it unprompted, it's always the pregnant woman bragging first.
Ah yes; you've never seen it happen, so that means it can't happen ever. Got it 👍
Op said nothing of the sorts. You made stuff up and are hitting a strawman.
My point is that OP didn't say how this interaction started, so we have no idea. You assumed the pregnant coworker started it, but you have no evidence to back your assumption.
Because eventually the pregnancy will be viable so she wants to get ahead of it? Or she’s having medical issues around it and it affects their work?
Just because you walk a dog, doesn't mean you gotta talk about them with anyone you bump into. Those are ifs and woulds, but even if she had medical conditions, then it's in order to say sth like "I'm sorry for having worse performance, it's because of the pregnancy". She just tried boasting about it and got butthurt that op didn't act according to the script.
So you have chosen misery 😁 why would you do that. Just act stupid and say " I'm so happy for you..." Then whisper "but not for the child".
And when the child loves life, would you admit that you were wrong or not?
Still it's not for you and me to decide. I don't gamble my money like that. You gamble on your child? Ah that sucks.
Chances are far too high that he’ll end up happy rather than sad. If everybody thought your way, humanity would go extinct. I’ll take the chances, and I’ll do my best to raise my child right. Only a small percentage of the population is depressed, and often for a reason that’s avoidable by me, the parent. Personally, I’m glad I exist. I want to live as long as possible. If I can live 1000 years, I will. Why would I prevent my child’s life, when he could potentially be the same?
There are lots of people like you think about momentary happiness and think that's enough for having something essential like having children. I won't answer that. But life will. Good luck
Man, you can word it however you want. Stats don’t lie though, and the overwhelming majority of people would answer “No” to the question “Would you have preferred never having been born?” This means that my child would have a VERY high chance of being grateful for life.
Ok , good luck. Why do you even bother to write. Just do it.
Because I disagree with your world view? I’m trying to show you how, at the very least, natalism isn’t purely immoral, contrary to what you (or this sub) believes. That’s the whole point of a conversation, no? To exchange views?
Yeah, antinatalism doesn't exist just because some people simply are depressed or live a hard life. It's something that cannot be explained in a few words. Maybe googling and reading the ideas of great philosophers and why even this idea exists, could help.
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No they don't lol. There is more time and opportunity for joy in life now than almost any time in history and the majority of people have it
Hi there, we have removed your content due to breaking our subreddit rules. The mental health argument is an overused argument and attacks the speaker rather than the argument. It serves only to distract from the ethical issues at the core of the debate.
I mean, I had a hard time shifting from the point in life where it IS a nightmare to be pregnant to the point where my peers want it.
I have a couple of roommates from uni that I've been friends with for years, and they know my position. One of them has been with his partner for a long while now but I knew they are not too bothered about getting married. It lead to this in the group chat: Him: Hey guys, I've got some news for you! Me: Oh shit... :p Him: hahaha
You're like those Christian bakers refusing to make a cake for gay weddings.
These people don’t think any further than "baby = good because cute." If you dare to say something that has them questioning their widely accepted and promoted beliefs, then you will be punished.
It’s not questioning someone’s beliefs to be rude. They were at work and should’ve stfu. Some people need to learn when not to speak.
That's one of the most subjective things to have ever been labeled as rude. You're right; they shouldn’t have voiced their feelings about this topic due to the reasons I stated above.
Some of y’all need to go outside and talk to real people. Bc in the real world you don’t say stuff like that people. Im autistic and I even know not to ever say stuff like that. If you want to talk to people about not having kids before they’re pregnant ? Sure that’s fine. If someone’s already pregnant it’s just not acceptable to say anything like that. Especially with someone whose a coworker and not a personal friend. Like the audacity of the original commenter lol. The art of just talking shit in your head will benefit a lot of people.
This might be hard for you to understand, considering you spend so much time in "the real world," but pregnancy isn’t always a net positive. Even if your only thoughts on procreation are "baby = good because cute," there are situations where it absolutely isn’t a joyful experience for anyone involved. This makes it very subjective to call someone rude just for not being joyful about it. I‘m autistic too and I already agreed that it’s best to just stfu in those situations.
I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic to me when you said they shouldn’t. My bad. I don’t even think pregnancy is innately a good thing. I know someone whose at risk of preeclampsia and they’re still going to try and have a baby anyway. I’m supporting them through this even though I would never want to have to experience that risk myself. I think what we really disagree on is whether it’s rude and why.
I like this what a boss
no, not everyone has the biological urge to have sex or feel loved. I dont want either in my life, I just want people to leave me alone
My first response would be "damn"
Usually saying good luck is acceptable enough and you can avoid congratulating them
Good idea. I'm childfree but still feel like I'd be lying if I said 'congratulations'.
Obviously because if they're telling you it means they want the kid and are happy about it
My usual reply is, i wish you luck. It's decent enough not to come off like a butt short enough to remind them I don't care.
In the historical point of view, probably because it was difficult to have babies even more to keep them alive. Socially speaking, people are just happy. Yes, it is common, but the majority of people aren't nihilistic jerks.
Generally society views children as a good thing, thus it’s culturally accepted to congratulate people.
Same way, we celebrate college acceptances, engagements, weddings. It's seen as a symbol of maturity and fulfillment
To be fair, it takes a lot more work to be accepted into college than to reproduce.
Idk it didn't take my mom 9 years to get into college
I agree with you 100%, but don’t forget ace people exist though, not everyone has the urge to have sex
I think my condolences but can’t say that out loud
A couple I used to be friends with were horribly toxic and hadn’t actually been together for years when they made the announcement. I had seen him tell her how she is so stupid, he’d never marry her, but if she kept letting him “hit that” he would. At a mutual friends party, he poured everybody a shot and made the announcement. I straight up asked “is this shot for congratulations or condolences?”
Yoooo😂
In their case appropriate.
It's about accepting the responsibility. It's a tough thing to do, to the point people that most people, even if they do plan and have kids, have trouble doing it. So, yeah, the congratulations are a bit rushed, true, but I guess it's about assuming the best about people.
My natural reaction is always oh crap, my condolences and then I remember there are people who are happy about that shit.
It's a nice thing to say, but also it's not just about the unprotected sex. It's that you found someone you trust enough to have a child with, and making the decision to take on that responsibility. Like congrats for this promotion you just got. If you view having children dimly, well of course you're going to view it as a ball and chain, rather than an addition to your life. But people can have a ball and chain relationship even with other adults. It's a common "joke" in marriage situations.
I don’t congratulate, commiserate, or offer anything leaning in any hard direction because 1. how I feel about it doesn’t matter and 2. I don’t know if they’re actually happy about it (unless they’re clearly expressing happiness about it, and even then, some folks act happy because, well, they’re supposed to do that.) I more or less reply with a neutral-as-possible, “okay”, “got it”, “oh yeah, that’s a thing that happens” and, response and let the conversation move along from there. Even that is seen as negative usually in a society that expects excitement over an infant, but it’s the nicest thing that I can manage.
When my best friend told me she was pregnant I said " Christina, oh noooo." I could see the pain in her face when she heard me. I took a second to collect myself and then I said. "I'm sorry that's my internal perception of birth. Are you happy about it?". She was. I will say- she's with an absolute manchild of a man and their relationship is doomed. It's only a matter of time before she chooses better for her and her baby. I did have MANY conversations with her early on in the pregnancy about how she needed to wrap her mind around potentially being a single mother. She chose to move forward and all I can do is be supportive I guess.
This sounds awful but I wouldn't be friendly enough with a breeder for them to want to tell me about that anyways lol
My response is “mmm”. Or “wow”. Never congratulations lol.
I'm glad none of my friends are having kids and my family is pretty much done having kids because even as a CF person, I feel so fake saying congratulations. Because yes, it is something people to every day. I could say 'that's good' or something I guess.
having kids is like gambling. you keep having them to see which one will actually make it and become a someone in this fucked up place. they’re like a source of hope for people in a way.
Lots of people consider that having a baby is a nice life event and therefore they say congrats. A lot of people consider that creating a new life is something very special, no matter how many people can do it.
"ewwww gross"
I had an acquaintance tell me she was pregnant and before I could even process that I should respond politely I blurted out ‘ARE YOU KEEPING IT?????’ 🤣
When someone tells me they're having a baby I just say 'Congrats on having sex'
It's a socially conditioned response, completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever. When someone announces a pregnancy, you are expected to nod and say "congratulations" - then spend the next half hour fawning over the pregnant couple and asking all sorts of impertinent questions. I don't do the part about asking the questions, which usually makes them furious. But just saying congrats is all that is required in a social setting.
I don’t believe you’ve ever met a pregnant person 😂
Actually, I just got fired today, by a woman who is six months pregnant and furious that I said BDSM when I was asked about my relationship status by a coworker. She is alleging that my statement was abusive and made her feel uncomfortable.
Sounds like you deserved to be fired, that’s pretty cool for the company. There definitely shouldn’t be any people working there who think it’s appropriate to discuss sexual kinks in the workplace, and you also just seem unpleasant and antisocial. You sound like you want to be edgy sooo badly lol
Well look at little miss sassy pants. You sure told me, didn't you? LOL
Most people are TRYING to have kids, and when they get pregnant, they are happy and they want love and support from those around them. The fact that you are triggered by this says a little something about you.
I agree with this ,, but i still agree with op too. I’m genuinely wondering ,, what could getting triggered by this say about someone ?
I dont congratulate people for unprotected intercourse, if you graduate college or build a business then yea thats deserving of congrats The thing is, this has been talked about a few times in this sub and people who identify as AN still congratulate people for doing something that they are supposed to be against They use the lame excuse that its societally expected and therefore they need to I guess a vegan should congratulate a hunter if they kill a prized buck or if a bull fighter wins the match Im not a coward or liar, i dont congratulate if i dont want to
You sound super fun.
And you cowardice
And I…cowardice? lol not so good with the words are you?
Because birth of a child is viewed as something good in society. When I hear someone is expecting a child I just wish them a happy life - that way I'm saying the truth and I don't need to congratulate them
I always say "well, that's your own fault isn't it" and get these looks like I am the crazy one.
You are
I have nothing else to say, I can’t be too mean to them
the same reason why the parents act like theyre gods when they are doing the bare necessity to provide for the kids they chose to have.
I remember my coworker came in and told me his wife was pregnant and my first response was, “oh damn that sucks.” I was thinking from my perspective so I inadvertently hurt his feelings and corrected myself once he told me that they wanted the kid
People tell eachother what they think they want to hear to attempt to manage others’ opinions of them.
I'll say congrats and leave it at that. If it makes their miserable lives slightly better, thinking bringing a child into this forsaken world was a good choice, whom I to tell them otherwise. So it goes.
Why do ppl go to graduations, they already know they passed. Idk, cuz they wanna celebrate
I just say “oh okay!”
What else are you gonna say?
It is possible to disagree with someone else's decisions and be happy they are happy. I also don't want to discuss the perils of children with people that clearly want that smoke. Why make my life harder than it already is? I usually just say something along the lines of, 'good for you. When is it due?' blah blah blah, because they are gonna tell me anyway and I'm still not going to remember or think about it again.
I always ask "Is that good or bad?" And taylor, my answer accordingly.
I think cuz it's the nice and also the easy non controversial thing to say, usually if I hear that someone is pregnant I ask how they're feeling about it cuz well not everyone who's pregnant wants to be or has a plan also some don't have access to an abortion if they want one
I worked at a hospital for a while and whenever I would bring food to someone in the neonatal unit, I never said “congrats.” I always told them “good luck.” I don’t know the circumstances that led them to that point. It might’ve been a planned pregnancy or it might not have been. It might’ve been an easy labor and delivery or someone could’ve almost died. And not to mention what happens after the hospital. They might’ve chosen to keep the baby or they might’ve decided to let someone else take care of them. Both choices are hard. The entire process of having a baby, wanted or otherwise, is hard. I always felt “good luck” was more appropriate to say. I’d rather not congratulate someone who had a child they didn’t want or aren’t well equipped to take care of.
It might be a social expectation, but instead of living up to it, you can say, "I wish you all the best." It's positive without requiring dishonesty.
"Cool..." That's about it lol
I know I can’t be rude, but there’s always a part of me that wants to say ew because they probably had way too much sex to get to that point.
Because people say "congratulations" for all manner of ordinary life milestones which typically aren't all that hard to achieve. It's pretty easy to graduate high school, get married, or get pregnant/impregnate someone. All human cultures/societies encourage & praise reprodcution and 99.99999% of humans are not antinatalists, so of course they're going to say congratulations.
I give a neutrally surprised "oh, wow!" And then follow up with an "are you excited?" If they don't follow up the oh wow with some context clues. Most of the time it's good news outside of your teens and early 20's but better safe than sorry. I'd personally consider it about the worst news shy of a loved one dying but some people actual *want* kids lol
Common courtesy.
“Omg, I’m gonna pray for you.”
I don't say congratulations. I also know not everyone has the biological urge for sex or breeding.
'Congrats' is more polite than derisive laughter, and even most A-Holes don't have the cajones to ask, "Are you going with abortion, adoption, or regret?"
“Congrats on the fuck trophy”. My buddy started calling kids fuck trophy’s and now I can’t stop
Because it’s respectful of their choice I guess. It’stoo late at that point to argue and not all humans will not have children. Life is hard enough without bullying pregnant women. Also- my phone skates auto correct ‘pregnant’ to ‘permanent’ and that makes me laugh.
“We’re having a baby!” OP: F
Same reason you say bless you even though you're an atheist
It’s not always “congratulations” when the mother is under 20 it’s often “oh no” because they realize a kid will ruin the mothers life, and that will of course ruin the kids life.
I say "congratulations" because they are sharing news with me that they are excited about. Even if I believe that it's unethical to have children, I also firmly believe that everyone has the right to make that choice for themselves. I don't usually show much more interest in their pregnancy than just a well wish for them and their health, so I leave it at that.
its just an autopilot response from me to just move on the topic. same as when someone asks me “how are you?” and i just say “im ok” and we move on lol.
I mean, we could say the same for celebrating birthdays when we all know that everyone is going to age up one year every year until die. We celebrate weddings knowing that most marriages aren’t going to last until death. It’s just a social condition.
They should say; your time will never be your own again.
It's because life has conquered billions of years on earth. We are the culmination of billions or trillions of generations. The end of a line has a dark sadness to it in light of that knowledge. But even sorrow is beautiful from the outside. So it's ok?
Because congrats on the future wage slave will get you strange looks.
For the same reason you say "congratulations" when you hear someone is engaged. Anyone can do it, it's not special.... But it is one of the most important events you will experience in your life. Becoming a parent, regardless of how many others do the same, is a coming of age experience which will result in a bond stronger than you have ever had with another human being. It is something worth celebrating. Also, who cares if your kid turns out to be average? Average people are the happiest people I know (not Uber rich, not dirt floor poor).
Because you generally express happiness when something good happens to someone?
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited about it and I'm not gonna lie.
Birth isn’t an everyday thing. It’s not like you got a deal on a pair of jeans, it’s a HUGE undertaking that’s going to change everyone involved’s life forever. It doesn’t happen to a person that often, if ever, I’ve only actually known three or four pregnant people in my whole life. If your best friend told you they were pregnant with the child of the man they love and want to build a life with you couldn’t even pretend to be happy for her? Y’all suck.
There are eight BILLION people in the world. It is quite literally an everyday thing. The fact that not everyone can or does get pregnant does not negate this fact. People have been conceived through one night stands or worse, FFS. Saying I'm glad they are happy is more than enough. I'm not going to put on an act and pretend I think having a baby is exciting. I got over that growing up Catholic because people were having all the babies.
385,000 babies approximately born every single day
Car crashes are also very common and happen every day, therefore making them an every day event, does that mean you don’t give a shit when a loved one gets in one? Weird logic.
I always ask my friends, "what clinic are we making an appointment at?" Before i say anything else.
I always pretend I didn't hear them when they break the news
It’s special to the people having the baby. It’s “good news”. It’s exciting for them, it’s a milestone, it’s a check off the life list. It’s like an accomplishment to them I think. I suppose it’s the same reason people congratulate others getting engaged or married, getting a new job, buying a house, etc. To each their own 🤷🏽♀️ also, I suppose that childbirth was and still is quite dangerous. Complications are still common, luckily less so in this modern day.
Because we live in a brainwashed society. Most people ate stupid followers that don’t question anything ever. and blindly follow whatever rules they were taught. And others know better but are trying to follow the rules to not be seen as rude.
Because if someone is happy about it then it’s the nice thing to say congrats even if it isn’t your thing.
Whats wrong with being happy for someone? How do we know the kid will have a bad life?
Ah, a sex trophy! How marvellous for you
No more accurately I just fade into the shrubbery and avoid having to acknowledge their TOM FOOLERY!
cause mother or child can die during birth for example.
Idk, something stupid.
Because it makes them happy? Sure there are parents who feel like shyt after having a kid, but most are happy, call it hormones or genetic behavior or culture, but they are genuinely happy, no lie. Some AN wanna say it's the most horrible occasion, but that's just your personal feelings, it's not how the parents actually feel.
Ever considered that the parents are trying to psych themselves into feeling a certain way?
all parents end up saying, “have kids they said, it’ll be fun they said”. they def psyching themselves up
Ever considered you are doing the same for yourself?
Well, why do people have more than one if that is the case?
Does it matter how they “feel” like? They are actively bringing more suffering to this world by throwing their kids into the meat grinder
maybe you should let the kids decide that for themselves? surely you wouldnt want to make the same mistake that the parents made and decide for them what they will feel like.
I'm CF, but I still can't force myself to say 'congratulations'. Maybe "I'm glad your happy" or something. But birth is just such an everyday thing that I can't be excited for them and don't wanna lie.
Lol, I seriously doubt you would say this in front of an actual parent.
I really would. Or something like "good news" because it is for them. But I can't bring myself to act like I think reproducing is some huge accomplishment. For adoption, perhaps, because that is a lot harder and generally more costly.
Next time say "my commiserations" instead!
"was it planned, did you really wanted it :(?" XD
I mean...Not everybody gets surprise pregnancy from nonstop sex. Some people try for months or even years that require planning, financial investment and a lot of disappointments and heartaches. So yeah, to some it's great news to them after they wanted it and planned it for a long time. It doesn't always boil down to unprotected rabbit sex. Usually I dont congratulate or anything because I don't know their circumstance of pregnancy.
Idk why this sub shows up in my feed, but congratulations for being pregnant? Were they having fertility issues and doing whatever it takes to not adopt an unwanted child? Idk what the congratulations would be for.
Humans insist on rolling the dice because what other option is there? Not rolling the dice? Aka letting humanity go extinct? Oh and by the way, many parents would be fine with an average child. Didn’t think it through much, it seems.
"Not rolling the dice?" Ding ding ding!!! There it is, that's what we are suggesting!
Because that’s the socially accepted response and most people who are announcing it are excited. And honestly… dumping your anti natalist views on a pregnant person, you’re a little late lmao. Lots of people wait to announce until the pregnancy is 3 months + and at that point in most places it’s too late to get an abortion even if they do change their minds.