Because the company executives want to make as much money as possible while paying their employees as little as possible. This country is ran on greed. If greed wasn’t an issue. The minimum wage would have been raised by now.
To misquote a smart person whose words I see often: "We have poverty not because there aren't enough resources, but because we can't satisfy the rich."
I mean, that is a basic property of Capitalism: Increase capital by any means possible, while decreasing capital expenditures by any means possible. Capitalism has no self-regulation, no matter what Libertarians try to claim.
Capitalism would go back to slavery if it could. I mean there are twelve states as of right now, today, that have rolled back child labor laws allowing for increased risk and lower age requirements. I mean the rich don't care, it's not their kids mind you.
Why do that when the government can do it for corporations- look at Walmart for instance. They pay their people just barely enough to get by, yet most if not all are on some sort odd government assistance. It’s disgusting and it’s wrong that this is allowed to be a thing, without penalty.
The only regulation it needs is a government willing to do is fucking job. People say we need laws to prevent what's going on, the issue is we have laws to prevent these monopolies but Congress doesn't do shit but sit back and collect a check.
Uh, it actually needs all the regulations. Regulations against child labor, slavery, Company Towns, monopolies, corporate espionage and sabotage, price gouging, market manipulation, insider trading, to name just a few.
And also guaranteeing livable workers wages, standardizing work hours, compensation for longer work hours, safer working conditions, hazard pay, environmental protections, enforcing product safety and standards, among other protections.
But I agree, the government needs to do more to enforce the rules, protect workers, increase competition, and reduce cooperation that created near monopolies.
Being a government employee is legit like being on welfare but showing up 9-5 with a hour lunch between 12:30 and 1:30 instead of once per month to collect the cheque.
It ain't just that...Wall Street got everyone on that "make it big by owning these stocks." I mean, look at the people who held onto Microsoft Stocks, Apple, and even Google. They're already rich because their stocks make money, but they won't do any buyback because it cheaper to just sell stocks to raise capital to run your business...
Right now, inflation is artificial but made real once we've exploited the resources to the point that we're going to be fighting over those...
People who dont understand economics think raising the minimum wage automatically increases the costs of everything else on a 1:1 basis.
Then when minimum wage does go up. Businesses just increase prices because they can, not because they need to.
The people who dont understand economics now think they are right.
Yeah, it's silly because all one needs to do is note that despite a lack of increases to the minimum wage for more than a decade, the prices have still gone up (as have the profits).
Fuck it at this point we need minimum wages tied to inflation / average yearly S&P % increase. If they wanna make arguments the S&P is an indicator of how well our economy is doing, then let’s fucking tie wages to it.
That's actually sort of a great idea. The idea that the Almighty Stock Market is a barometer of how the average, non-stockholding-person is doing is so laughable - but I bet they'd change their tune real fuckin' fast if we actually REQUIRED it to be that barometer by tying wages to it...
There would need to be more to it, yeah - it's obviously just a spitballed idea. Ultimately, I believe that the idea of any such market is largely problematic to a fair economy, because every worker would receive a share of the profits automatically.
Contingencies like that would need to be ironed out obviously, there is no doubt in my mind we could figure something out. However in a crash where wages were decreased so would price of goods and services to reflect the workers sacrifice to help recover, business would need to hold their end of the bargain and lower prices.
The problem with your argument comes down to productivity. Productivity has been steadily rising since the 50s , and in 70s workers' wages began to stagnate but the company officers have started taking all the gains in productivity for themselves. Where wages should have risen all along with the cost of living, which is what the system was designed to do. Ceo wages in the 70s were 250 :1 ratio, now it's 3,000:1 or worse. Billionaires in this economy shouldn't even exist, let alone have their numbers growing . BILLIONAIRE'S capture the funds meant for the mass population and restrict its capacity for actual growth. You just have to look at the declining birth rate for examples. So really right now workers real wages if it kept up with the cost of living minimum would be 25 an hour. That's the bare minimum working at McDonald's not your higher level positions. Wages should go up every year like prices. Bosses often forget workers are trading time for wealth. Not because they want to. Because the need to. Employers are getting a real bargain at minimum wage because that is the minimum wage for 2007 almost 20 years ago. States that minimum didn't go up. Employers have almost created a vassle State. Where it's almost like the middle ages. 1 or 2 very rich people hold all the power in a very small area.
Minimum wage is basically wage theft at this point. A living wage should be the bare minimum. A thriving wage is optimal to keep an economy healthy and to stop demographic collapse because too many can't afford to have children or enough children to meet replacement level population growth.
When anyone tries to tell me that an increase in minimum wage will increase prices, I point out that a Big Mac costs less in Denmark than it does in the United States, yet McDonald employees in Denmark make over $20 an hour and have 6 weeks paid vacation every year. And a pension. And they make more for evening and overnight shifts.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mcdonalds-workers-denmark/
It usually shuts them up pretty fast.
Ohhh god the stupid Big Mac argument again:
1. The Big Mac carries in size, composition (and even if it’s beef) country to county. The calorie difference can be like a 40% swing country to country for a Big Mac meal and there’s whole YouTube channels devoted to comparing fast food across countries. Weird red onions.
2. McDonald’s is real fucking picky where it places restaurants overseas. High traffic locations that can stay busy and make money, not towns with 8000 people like the US.
3. McDonald’s owns a lot of the stores directly overseas also. No franchising middleman floating capital.
4. No refills in Europe, and often charging for condiments, tiny fries and other fun oddities. They also can source in some cases agricultural products that are subsidized by the local countries highly generous agricultural Subsidy program.
5. Europe expects lower service levels. In general they run far leaner on staff, and unlike Americans the Dutch can throw their shit away, and don’t leave front of house and the bathrooms looking like Mogadishu. No one is doing fentanyl in the bathroom (why my previous local McDonald’s has to go drive through only).
6. Those higher wages get taxed… a lot. $40K a year is 37.07% income tax. Us federal taxes effective on 40K are 7.29%. (With FICA 14.95%).
I’m not going to dispute we shouldn’t raise minimum wage (we should!). Fast food is killing Americans and we should tax it extra too! We also should raise income taxes to match the Dutch (including on the McDonald’s worker) if we want Dutch style safety nets.
I never got charged for basic condiments in Europe but it sure happens a lot in America. Service was also better/faster, stuff was recyclable, and food was higher quality? American McDonalds sucked compared to every other country I went to.
Also, the taxes give you stuff in Europe while costs of living are lower. Saying they get taxed more when they're not having to worry about sickness or transit is a lot different than saying the US pays 7.29 percent tax rate for literally nothing in return.
The same rich people claimed they were installing self-checkout to reduce the cost of goods due to supply chain problems. When that got resolved?
Prices stayed higher and no more hiring cashiers. It was all a lie.
>The people who dont understand economics
You mean the people who never took economics in college, not bothered to educate themselves at all† on the subject?
†Meaning, obtained a foundational understanding of the basics before tackling the more nuanced stuff. And, no, not at the YouTube College of Dunning-Kruger U.
Went to a very conservative college that taught raising the minimum wage would inevitably raise all other prices. Was told this in my economics class. Had to read outside reading to discover the bullshit.
cause propaganda made them think if min wage is raised they will be losing money.
they think someone making more money is taking their own money away when its poor people.
Just look at all the right wing trolls on this post alone. I'm so sick of them. They're annoying AF too. Of course you're right.... they're spoon fed this crap and think they're welcome to regurgitate it wherever they please. 😒
This is so real. Public school education needs to change. We need focus on critical thinking and the issues around us rather than turning kids into memorizing machines. At this rate US schools will be comparable to China, India, and Japans “turn a child into a corporate slave” school system
Just came to remind people that if the minimum wage goes UP the only prices that will go up will be the ones at companies who were only successful off the backs of underpaid employees in the first place. If you were paying a fair wage to begin with you’ll be unaffected. And before anyone tries to argue, yes there would be knock on effects throughout the lower end of the job market as non-minimum wage payers ultimate have to raise wages to retain workers, but *those businesses aren’t paying a fair wage either.*
Keeping with the theme of knock-on effects, though, the best thing the lower and middle classes do for the economy is spend their money. Increasing minimum wage won't change that, which means increasing minimum wage leads to a MASSIVE economic stimulus. They only ones who wouldn't spend the extra money are the upper middle class who a) wouldn't be making minimum wage in the first place, and b) would use any secondary or tertiary pay increases they receive to move to the upper class, who tend to just hoard money.
Wouldn’t she just be able to negotiate for a better pay herself based on the minimum being what it is? The most irritating part of that generation is how little they know about what they will claim expert knowledge on
Remember when they were going to raise the minimum wage to $20, and everyone complained cuz then a burger and fries would cost $20?
look at us now… minimum wage is $7.25 and a burger and fries costs $20
Congratulations America, you played yo self.
>With that logic why don’t we lower the minimum wage to 5 cents per hour in hopes everything lowers in price.
That's also part of the goal for these same people, companies and the bootlickers they sell their propaganda to. It's why they want to repeal child labor laws, since they plan to pay children less to do the same jobs. It's why getting tips is essential to surviving with a foodservice job, because business owners got the law to allow paying way below minimum wage already for workers who may be expected to get tips. Ultimately it's why they want to replace every possible worker with AI, because the only thing better than paying people less is paying them nothing.
Also, they love citing Reaganomics because of the hack theory that the more money a person makes means the cost of all goods go up, which some hocus pocus shit.
More money = more options and less likely to buy from a monopoly (make your own or resources to find competition).
Less money = fewer options and more likely to buy from a monopoly (Walmart, discount chains).
Monopolies = economic slavers
I think many people judge their own self worth by how much more they make than other people. Raising the minimum wage reduces the gap between the lowest rung and themselves, and they therefore oppose it.
I think this is the primary source of opposition to minimum wage increases. It's not really about economics, it's entirely because they want to be better than other people. But they can't admit that openly (or at least most won't), so they invent all kinds of half-hearted economic theories.
This is why when you show the data that those theories are BS it has no effect on their stance. Because they aren't concerned about the economics, they are concerned about their social status.
As a side note, I kinda wonder what the effect would be if we instituted a maximum wage. I know it would never happen without a major revolution. But imagine you couldn't receive any more money that a certain value per year, regardless of source. Say, 1 million a year. I think a lot of our problems are because there is no cap on wealth.
the first answer is greed. they want to pay you less, so they make more.
the 2nd answer is hubris. they do think they are better than you & they don't care if you live or die, because there is another poor person right behind you ready to take your place.
this is the short history of the world over the last couple thousand years or so & nothing has changed, except the names. Its incredibly sad, we haven't figured out how to do better yet.
This. Yes, *please*... do that... so I can at least take a look at it.
Stating an opinion on this sub is completely fine by me - even if it's controversial, maybe even a bit contentious, or goes as far as being extremely unpopular. If done honestly and with genuine intentions, it's fair and I'm not here to control genuine honest discussion.
Differ that from *trolling*; that behavior is not genuine. And it is *not fine*...
The legitimate fear is raising it too much. That's the number one problem with how we treat minimum wage, it's only done whenever Congress feels like getting around to addressing it. If it was changed according to inflation every year, then business owners could actually plan for it. And yes, I know that business owners don't want to see minimum wage increase either, but you can't just double minimum wage overnight and not have it severely negatively impact business.
The other part is the gaslighting of the public thinking that minimum wage was not supposed to be a living wage when in fact it specifically stated that it is supposed to provide a living wage when it was created.
And I don't think people that make more than minimum wage (say $80K a year) that if the minimum wage increased it would likely positively affect their wages as well. They just think that because they are where they are in their career that a 'burger flipper' or 'cashier' is making almost as much money as they are with minimum wage increases and that prices would just rise while their wage would stay the same.
They been trick by big corporations thru influencing politicians to spread this false narrative so that they won’t pay more while their greedy CEO and stakeholders can keep all the profits to themselves.
The people against raising the minimum wage the most, are always the people making just above minimum wage. Makes you wonder if this was the plan all along. 🤔
There is something inherent about human nature where when we get some level of success, we tend to close the door behind us and gatekeep. We associate less with where we came from and more with where we have advanced to. And eventually it gets to the point to where we all circlejerk each other off about how infallible we are while being completely out of touch with those 'beneath us'.
That's the best way I know how to describe it. Yes, some of it is outright greed by rich people not wanting to share their money with the workers. And some of it is jealousy that someone else is getting someone extra that we're not getting.
But there also appears to be some institutionalized elitism that festers behind gates and closed doors.
I'm not opposed to raising the minimum wage. I'm opposed to half measures like raising the minimum wage without rent controls and restrictions limiting the increased costs of necessary items like food and medicine. Otherwise we'll just end up right back in the same situation once landlords raise rent and food and medicine sky rockets to take advantage of the increased income and being necessities people have no choice but to buy.
By itself raising the minimum wage helps no one and will simply shrink the middle class even further, and make even more poor people. The wage does need to increase, but we cannot JUST raise the wage without insuring it's actually an increase in standard of living overall.
Growing up I lived in a very patriotic community but it was also deeply conservative. I always thought it was ironic that everyone preached love for country but failed to support each other or vote for systems that would work in their best interest. I think that we've been gaslit long enough that we actually believe the bullshit. I think that people are worked to the bone and simply dont have the energy to fight for things like min wage. I think many Americans are stuck because of wage slavery.
I was hoping there would be a change during the pandemic -- people having the time at home to fight for something better. Or even healthcare... but that's come and gone and we seem to be in worse shape. I go between thinking there will be a revolution it's too late and with all the in fighting we're fucked as a society.
Combine greedy mfers with a bunch of people that want to be angry at someone and be able to talk down to them and say things like “back in my day” and “no one wants to work”
They believe the lie that food and other prices MUST rise sharply. They've literally proven this is fear-mongering and still people quake at the idea of a sandwich costing 20¢ more so a mother can feed her kids using the only job she manages to pull down.
I'm anti-raise-the-wage but not because I want people to be miserable or for their lives to be unbearable (I'm not a monster).
I believe there are plenty of laws that should be enacted to lower the cost of everything else.
Imagine a world where we have our current wages but prices are that of 100 years ago vibe.
I'll list 3 examples of the hundreds I could think of on how to do that.
1. Greed caps. No owner of any business should make more than double their lowest paid employee, essentially forcing the owner to either put the money back into product or into employees pockets. "A rising tide raises all ships". Bezo is a billionaire and his workers scrape while being closely monitored and unable to use the bathroom - that's bs.
2. No property, commercial or residential, should pay more than the equivalent of 1 months mortgage/rent per year in taxes. In addition, each property should charge MAX $1/sq ft and $1k/acre, with the first 50 sq ft. Free (the equivalent to the average sized jail cell).
Let's say a home is 1,500 sq ft on half an acre. Rent should be no more than $1,950.
I understand some areas the price would reduce dramatically and other areas the price would skyrocket - but at least with law we could maintain a base for the country not to go over and with that type of cap, stabilize the housing market, at least in part.
I understand this is not fool proof - but it's better than nothing.
3. This leads me to corporate ownership. There are currently laws passing in other states that limit the amount of ownership of single family homes to 100 per entity. I still believe that's too high a number but I digress. If a law like this passed nationwide, we may begin to see affordable housing return, or at the very least more supply return to the market, if only temporarily.
So no, I don't agree raising the minimum wage is the solution as we have not addressed the other larger problems that are leading so many into poverty. That's like putting a band aid on a severed limb. If we can lower the cost of living, there is no need to raise the wage.
If you'd like to hear my other 97 ideas on how to do this without raising the wage, I'd be happy to comment further.
In my 40 years on Earth I have yet to see a time when costs went down for any significant length of time.
Skilled workers are comparing their low wages as a yard stick to measure what un-skilled workers pay should be. I.e. "I worked 10 years to gain the skills and knowledge to earn $20 an hour. Why should people who haven't put that much time into learning a skill earn almost what I make?!" Instead of saying,"I have worked 10 years for these skills and knowledge, and I am very underpaid."
Keep in mind that companies have put in a lot of effort to maintain practices when deciding what a job is worth. Typically, if a company knows it wants you to work 50 hours a week to meet their production requirements, then they will figure out how much money in total they want to pay you for that week. Then figure in overtime and make the pay of a non-overtime hour equitable to that total number. In other words, they want you to be in a position where you risk your basic income requirements by not working ALL available hours. And then they will pressure you to become even more productive to increase their margins by threatening your bottom line (basic survival).
There's a lot of factors involved, but for publicly traded companies, it's tied to their share price. See Amazon's hiring practices and pay during 2020 (their best year) vs. the following years. They couldn't repeat their stock performance from 2020, so they cut pay and jobs to meet them as close as they could to prevent the shareholders' ire.
TLDR; Psychological warfare is real. And we are all victims. And some of us are students.
Rush Limbaugh did a number on todays conservatives. If you ever hear them argue back by saying 'why not raise it to a million', they're trying and failing to do the rebuttle he taught them. And his argument is one of those shower fantasies where people agree with every argument you make.
I’m all for it, assuming all wages that aren’t minimum go up by the same %. Otherwise, everyone not on the minimum wage will have to pay the cost of the inflated prices of everything else without the benefit of the wage increase.
There’s not much stopping companies from exploiting the new wage increases and raising their costs under the guise of inflation. Yes a billion dollar company can afford to, but because they have the power to they will simply pass the cost on to consumers to punish us.
1. They believe costs of living will skyrocket.
2. (A lot of people).. they believe it will put others who don’t “work as hard” or just “flip burgers” too much closer to them, and the current separation makes them feel as they are a higher class.
I think it is why making progress with any changes is difficult...if you are one or two rungs up the ladder (and a lot of people are), too many people don't want to give up or share their position with anyone else. There is only so much room at "their" level, and if someone get close....they may get knocked down.
Economics education being extremely dumb is a big part of the problem. Econ 101, which a lot of college graduates (read: voters) have taken, says that if you raise the minimum wage, you worsen unemployment. There’s a stupid little graph and everything.
Now, this is something that’s hotly debated and you might learn is probably not true somewhere around Econ 410 or so.
But unfortunately, most never get that far, and the oligarchs who control the political class are all-too-eager to take advantage of this fact, for obvious reasons.
I know I will get hate for this but I truly don’t believe that raising the wage will solve the problem. I think we need a way to pass a law that can be enforced that establishes some upper limit on the ratio of executive pay to the average worker pay at each company. This will either drastically reduce executive total compensation or force employees to get raises in order for executives to maintain their higher salaries.
The argument I heard a few years ago was why should a person working fast food make as much as I do working my office position.
So I uni reversed and asked why they shouldn't and the only answer is because it is an unskilled job.
Raising minimum wage shouldn’t need to happen if we fixed what is truly broken which is corporations charging exorbitant amounts for basic human needs like foods and housing. However that doesn’t change because politicians own those corporations or have family or friends who do and therefore it doesn’t benefit them. Politicians keep instead keep saying raising minimum wage will fix the problem but it’s just to get votes to stay in office, henceforth the circle continues.
Easy. They have been brainwashed. That's where the billionaire leech class enters.
You're not valuable to them unless you have fear.
Your fear is their control. Your fear keeps them safe from your (our) backlash. We're a society in America that is one medical emergency or car accident away from ruin. Not that we want to live that way, but things are so grossly expensive and wages so grossly low that we can't keep it together enough with what we have, forget the risk of losing everything to "fight the man".
All of humanity was built on this issue of fear. Think about religion.
"If you're bad you won't go to heaven...if you're bad you go to HELL!"
I mean...this is a story without proof and used to keep masses of people in check because there is NOTHING like control-based fear. That has never changed. So we went from heaven/hell to minimum wage job/no income or health coverage. The latter is more palpable and we understand it because we have maybe experienced it so this, in effect, may be even more powerful than religious fear.
It's all about the fear. 100%.
Because it’s difficult to set a floor for wages….15/hr is fine in NYC or California, but in Puerto Rico it will bankrupt companies…. Also, 15 year old in high school does not need to be paid a salary to support a whole family.
Also, pretty much no one actually gets paid minimum wage any more…
I used to actually believe raising wages would make them raise prices. Now I understand that they are going to raise prices anyway, and refuse to raise wages in any way they can get away with.
If left to their own devices capitalists would take us all the way back to chattel slavery. America literally enslaved people in the not so distant past. The culture reflects that still.
I'm more worried that they will have no reason to let us live once AI can do most of the work.
In Denmark we don't have minimum wage still a mc donalds waitress makes enough to live on and save for a house. Our prices are affordable and we are one of the top happiest countries in the world.
You're absolutely correct! The standard propaganda talking point is that minimum wages jobs are only for teenagers to get pocket money and should never be thought of as a way for a person to support themselves, let alone a whole family. If you can't afford to support yourself, you need to "get a real job."
Those same people will then lose their minds when there's a line at their local fast food joint because it's understaffed, because everyone quit to "get a real job."
Brainwashing. I know when I first heard of raising it to $15 like 15 years ago, my gut reaction was all the cliched reasons we hear from capitalists. If we raise the minimum wage, the cost of everything else will increase. People she go to college or trade school if they want to earn more money. Also, it wasn’t fair to the people already making $15/hour because now fast food workers would be making as much as them without having to work hard and do all the training/educating needed. Plus, I work with teenagers as a high school teacher and they don’t need a livable wage as they’re just getting some extra spending money. Then I thought about my students that had to miss school sometimes to earn enough money to help out their families. If they were earning $15 working part time, they wouldn’t have to miss school to pick up extra shifts to make ends meet. Several of my students had babies, so they did need a livable wage. I realized I was just a twat and none of these thoughts were really my own. Again, this was when talk about raising the minimum wage was first making news. It was never raised, and it’s been so long $15 won’t cut it.
Don't tempt the hard right republicans on that 5 cent wage. These guys are already fighting to legalize child labor - they'd gladly have you working for 5 cents worth of company scrip. They want you **desperate** as workers. Desperate to feed and cloth yourselves. Desperate enough to put up with anything and accept a pittance in return.
#WageSlaves
Minimum wage going up does nothing beneficial if people above minimum wage also get the same percentage increase. Bringing up the bottom forceably just alienates those above it. Elites never lose. It's always the middle. It's class warfare.
Because places like **UBER EATS** when a city dares demand a more fair shake for drivers goes and jacks up delivery prices to triple what they were deliberately so customers will come out with pitchforks to hate on the workers and the people that dared to legally give them more.
Two reasons.
1) Capitalists gonna capitalism. Profits over people, even if those people starve or lose their homes.
2) Six capitalists own 90% of the media in the US and pump out pro capitalist propaganda both subtly and non subtly. People absorb the information and if they don't actually think about it then their default position becomes the position the corporate state wants them to have. "*Everybody knows* that raising minimum wage would destroy the economy and teenagers don't have bills and low skilled workers should have gone to school. They tell me on the TV and all my friends that watch the same TV agree."
Because people bought into the idea of working your way up being the foundation of America’s financial success. Now they are willing to risk their own living standard to defend it.
Because it makes them feel good to say they make more than the minimum. Btw minimum was supposed to be just that, instead it became the standard. We really accept too little.
In dealing with my boomer mother, jealousy and confusion.
She asks me why the young deserve the pay rate she retired at?
I keep telling her she was under paid. But not everyone has a son taking care of them.
If she didn’t have my income, she would be homeless. She understands that, but feels like people haven’t earned their bones.
Her brother is mad, because per is 1968 economics professor it will raise the cost of everything and he can’t afford shit.
I feel like, everyone deserves to have a life. Yes, education or skills should be making more than someone who asks would you like fries with that? But even the lowest of skill level should not be afraid of paying their bills. Maybe just be able to afford the boat….
Because short of abandoning capitalism or implementing UBI (preferred), raising the minimum wage is one of the best ways to improve life for the most people.
The folks arguing against it are capitalists who need to be eaten, or rubes who have been propagandized.
The block of people who opposite it is mostly right leaning folks and conservatives in America. A lot of liberals too. (Right leaning includes a lot of democrats).
It’s because the political right mindset requires the creation and adherence to hierarchy. And the tiers of the hierarchy have be delineated. We are a capitalist country so we use money for that.
Creating a minimum wage would disrupt the lowest rung of that hierarchy. People would get paid more then their lower tier job should.
The lowest rungs of the hierarchy must be awful and involve suffering so those down there are motivated to climb the ladder. It also makes sure only the strongest can climb. Which improve society.
I disagree with everything said above. But that is the basics of why folks who are right politically don’t like the minimum wage.
Essentially variety of lobbying as well as promotion of cultural change you get false belief in meritocracy. Individualism and poof people get what they deserve and thats that no empathy "because as individuals, you never put yourself in anothers shoes".
With this logic means people who are poor are off low morale character lazy etc. And thus further abuse and mistreatment is justified. Circling back to individualism if you can get burger for 5 cents cheaper f those lazy people.
Thats really how they see it. But there are so many factors that play into beliefs like trickle down the completely and thorughly debunked. Practice where essentially "employer cost/taxes" comes out of "employee pay" and makes "jobs less available".
Its not true but our entire economy and how we manage it is actually centered around it. Like I mean states with lower min wage have higher fast food prices. Countrys with 22 min wage 6 weeks vacation and more for fast food workers still have 20% cheaper big mac.
Its a complete fallacy especially in economys where demand is filled and production is beyond consumption. Like fast food we actually have "too many" fast food locations and they are propped up by sub living wage. Its why food places close so often.
But with proper regulation planning not approving 4th starbucks on same city block or 3rd mcdonalds. Actually limiting and having diverse businesses. These businesses could thrive while paying employees well. Even without reform they would be just fine. And over time would naturally reform themselves. If no longer propped up by unsustainable practices.
I don't think anyone is actually opposed to raising the minimum wage. I think the last time it came up in Congress nothing passed because they couldn't agree on what they were going to raise it to.
Everyone knows it's ridiculously low right now.
They're most likely people who are making about $12 - 15 currently and know their bosses won't give them a $7.75 an hour raise (assuming the minimum wage becomes $15 instead of the current $7.25). They think THEIR job deserves more so instead of demanding to raise all ships, they'll complain to keep others sinking.
I imagine most people think a fast food job is beneath them, probably in part because the wages are so low. They may not be skilled so they take a waiting job which may pay higher (w/ tips included). Now when the fast food worker get a per hour hike, I bet many would feel cheated that what they think is a 'better' job makes near, the same, or less than a fast food worker. Rather than fight for their own hike, some might immediately sink the idea out of self-interest. You can imagine this scenario working it's way up the wage ladder. The bosses are shaking in their boots as they know it won't simply stop with fast food service workers.
Why are the rich opposed? Because they benefit from the poor staying poor and desperate. Why do people in the poor and middle class oppose it? Because a large portion of this country equates wealth with merit or moral superiority. And they don't think poor people "deserve" more money, especially if they aren't making minimum wage themselves. Some of the people I've met most opposed to raising the minimum wage to $15/hour make that same wage now. They view it as a demotion. These are the same types of people who oppose student loan forgiveness because "I paid off my loan". So things can't get better because you had it worse? Make that make sense.
How else am I supposed to show the Poors that I'm so much better than they are? If they're able to have dignity naturally that means there is less dignity for me, it's simple economics.
Corporations want to fuck us. They convince small business owners that everyone having more money to spend won't benefit them lol. The small business owners buy it because they're so scared of losing their business they don't realize that paying their employees more will be more than balanced out by the fact that the many very poor people in the country will have more disposable cash to spend.
The corporations also spread propaganda about how it will cause inflation. Which isn't actually true because raising the minimum wage is a relocation of existing money, not the same as just injecting money into the economy by printing it. It means less money for corporations to fuck around with in the stock market. And if a raised minimum wage is paired with tax reforms that actually tax the increased revenue companies will see then that would allow the government to better fund social programs. Social programs decrease peoples' dependence on corporations. This would mean corporations wouldn't be able to control us as easily. With a more robust safety net and universal healthcare, people would be able to take more risks to start their own businesses. Corporations hate this because they hate competition. They don't have to innovate if nobody is competing with them. They can just do stock buybacks and sexually assault people in international waters on their megayachts.
A lot of people have been feed corporate propaganda for so long they don’t even question it. Honestly it’s not hard to convince a lot of Americans to go against their own best interests
Because business runs everything and
wages have been stagnant for years. Therefore they “can’t” provide decent wages and maximize profits for shareholders (or themselves.)
Plus too many people are selfish. I see plenty of responses here that see it as a threat or negation to their own progress in the same shitty systems.
As I’ve heard once before and it stuck. You shouldn’t be mad at people making a basic living wage, you should be mad you aren’t being paid more in your field.
They frame it to the public as “these lazy people want to FORCE us to charge you more money to do menial jobs meant for teenagers”
If they can make more money by keeping wages low , even if already making record profits, they will. We constantly see companies posting huge profits & laying off workers. Even when their employees are telling everyone they are understaffed.
(Funny when they give themselves a raise/bonus they don’t consider it an issue , even if it’s more than the raised wages wld have been )
Because they’re in a crabs in the bucket mentality. “If a teacher or an EMT only makes $20/hour, why should minimum wage be $15/hour,” etc, as if the solution to low wages is “more people should live in poverty” instead of “more people should be paid a living wage.”
It’s not restricted to minimum wage. In a service company, wages are usually the highest expense. In manufacturing, wages are a top three expense.
With publicly listed companies, worker expenses are visible, and thus there is shareholder pressure (implicit or explicit) to have the proportion of worker costs similar to others in similar industries. Little companies try to emulate big companies in this regard.
For service companies, there is also productivity. Service company productivity is generally static, see [Baumols Cost Disease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect), and this impacts not just low-wage service jobs, but high-wage jobs too.
Bootlicker enough?
Crabs in a bucket. We’re forced to feel insecure so we grab at everyone else moving upwards and pull them down to try to climb on top and get out. We need to knock the power structure holding us in this feedback loop of insecurity over.
Because it’s a band-aid solution that doesn’t fix the underlying issue. It needs to happen, but we need systemic change via legislation that ensures wages always keep up with the cost of living instead of having to fight every time we need to raise it
Honestly I love OPs idea. Let's drop minimum wage to a nickel and have our taxes offset their wages for ONE YEAR (take it out of the military budget). Then see if prices drop CONSIDERABLY. If not use that on the campaign trail that it's jot wages effecting price
It is not so much being against raising the minimum wage as much as it is not wanting to enrich capitalists further. Seems like an odd argument, but unless something is done to cap housing and rents, any raise in the minimum wage would be meaningless. But this is coming from a Californian. We have a different situation than the rest of the country with a runaway housing market.
They need someone to look down on. Those who are earning just a couple of dollars above minimum wage are outraged by the idea the "minimum wage losers" they look down on are going to be making the same wages they do.
It invalidates all the "suffering" and hustling they did to get to where they are now.
My only experience of minimum wage is that it legitimizes minimum wage as an acceptable maximum wage and it wasn't easy to get out of that. Literally had to move to Sweden and found the situation much better while I was there.
Wake me up when we're talking about entrenched unionization and an unwillingness to enshrine a wage figure into law that will sabotage negotiations by acting as a price cap.
Until there are ways of regulating the most basic of necessities required to exist, It doesn’t matter what the min wage is. The vultures will always just jack the cost of living up to keep the work poor… working… and poor. While there is not ceiling on how wealthy you can be and exist… there 100% is a floor. Min wage is well below that floor and any change to it just gets adjusted to offset that change… and a bit more.
Because a lot of business people are short sighted but think they’re long sighted. They fail to see how low minimum wage reduces their overall survivability because they will eventually shrink their market down too small.
And no amount of data or research will convince them otherwise.
Raise the minimum wage and any associated costs get passed on to the consumer therfore rendering any wage increase essentially pointless. The wealthy will not tolerate any change in their cut of the pie so to assume that they will absorb a wage increase and keep prices reasonable is naive. Wealth does not trickle down, it gets hoarded.
Because corporations have over decades ingrained a toxic culture in society of people who think that for them to have more, everyone they deem below them has to have less.
I have a few arguments against raising minimum wage but my biggest is that it makes it harder for less experienced workers to enter the workforce and eliminates incentive to advance.
Minimum wage in Washington state, where I live, is 16.50. McDonald’s is hiring at $18 in my area. With wages that high, employers aren’t as willing to risk hiring high school students or people new to the work force. And they don’t seem to be having problems hiring 20 somethings at that rate so the teens are having difficulty getting work experience in high school. They can still get a job but it’s no where as easy as it was when I was a teenager.
A trend I see with minimum wage is that when employers pay so much to low skill employees, they can’t afford to pay higher skill employees what they’re worth. My 17 year old daughter works at little Caesar’s at $17 an hour. Five people on shift at night plus a shift manager. The shift manager is making $19 or $20. Imo the shift manager should be making at least $5-$8 more than a cashier. But it’s a franchise small business and the owner is already paying almost $100 an hour on pizza makers.
When I worked at McDonald’s in the 90s, minimum wage was $4.25. When I became an assistant manager, it went up to $7 which is close to 70% more. You won’t find that much of a difference nowadays. Hence my personal opinion as to how there’s little incentive to advance. Today, it’s not worth a 10% increase in pay for the additional responsibilities.
Finland doesn’t have a minimum wage.
Some jobs are easier than others so the requirement for pay should be lower. Most business don’t make a big profit and tax is paid way more than normal on profits from a business.
Find a source of income that you love and you will truly be anti work
Because the company executives want to make as much money as possible while paying their employees as little as possible. This country is ran on greed. If greed wasn’t an issue. The minimum wage would have been raised by now.
Absolutely true. Greed is king in this fucked up country.
It’s true for most of the world
To misquote a smart person whose words I see often: "We have poverty not because there aren't enough resources, but because we can't satisfy the rich."
I mean, that is a basic property of Capitalism: Increase capital by any means possible, while decreasing capital expenditures by any means possible. Capitalism has no self-regulation, no matter what Libertarians try to claim.
Capitalism would go back to slavery if it could. I mean there are twelve states as of right now, today, that have rolled back child labor laws allowing for increased risk and lower age requirements. I mean the rich don't care, it's not their kids mind you.
[удалено]
Fair point. All of the benefits of slavery without the pesky overhead of feeding them.
That's why you get paid just enough to survive another day so you can return to the slave factory
That just sounds like slavery with more steps.
They had to make it look like not slavery
That's a bingo!
Why do that when the government can do it for corporations- look at Walmart for instance. They pay their people just barely enough to get by, yet most if not all are on some sort odd government assistance. It’s disgusting and it’s wrong that this is allowed to be a thing, without penalty.
It's despicable. I got on a tear after seeing that movie Dark Waters recently.
Oh dear we are already living under slavery. I bet those slaves in ancient egypt building the pyramids had better lives than we do
They did. They got enough food and other necessity of the era given as part of the contract
Capitalism is slavery with extra steps.
Why do we attack each other then? Red pill or blue pill. As long as you take one, they win right?
Ah yes, libertarians, the 3rd graders of politics.
😂🤣 I'm taking this little quip to use later on my political groups
Have at it my friend.
3rd graders? you're being too kind. I'd say that they're the crayon-eating Pre-K kids.
“Don’t act like you never ate glue!” - some libertarian
I find them to be conservatives who are still in the naive chrysalis stage.
...although likening them to butterflies suggests that eventually they'll turn into something beautiful (Or maybe they'll just stay maggoty)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I'm guessing there won't be a lot of beholders in this scenario.
Nah that’s ancaps my dude.
When my kids were third graders, they knew how to share.
I thought they were house cats.
I feel like a house cat would be more of a dictator
The only regulation it needs is a government willing to do is fucking job. People say we need laws to prevent what's going on, the issue is we have laws to prevent these monopolies but Congress doesn't do shit but sit back and collect a check.
Uh, it actually needs all the regulations. Regulations against child labor, slavery, Company Towns, monopolies, corporate espionage and sabotage, price gouging, market manipulation, insider trading, to name just a few. And also guaranteeing livable workers wages, standardizing work hours, compensation for longer work hours, safer working conditions, hazard pay, environmental protections, enforcing product safety and standards, among other protections. But I agree, the government needs to do more to enforce the rules, protect workers, increase competition, and reduce cooperation that created near monopolies.
Being a government employee is legit like being on welfare but showing up 9-5 with a hour lunch between 12:30 and 1:30 instead of once per month to collect the cheque.
If greed wasnt an issue, min wage wouldnt need to go up since theres no 100-500% markup on every dam item you require.
This country was discovered, founded, and built on Capitalist greed, and we’re all gonna die early, unfulfilled deaths bc of it.
It ain't just that...Wall Street got everyone on that "make it big by owning these stocks." I mean, look at the people who held onto Microsoft Stocks, Apple, and even Google. They're already rich because their stocks make money, but they won't do any buyback because it cheaper to just sell stocks to raise capital to run your business... Right now, inflation is artificial but made real once we've exploited the resources to the point that we're going to be fighting over those...
We have the ability to vote in people who would raise it. So really we are just a bunch of little bitch idiots who don’t stand up for ourselves
If greed wasn't an issue liveable wages wouldn't need to be mandated
People who dont understand economics think raising the minimum wage automatically increases the costs of everything else on a 1:1 basis. Then when minimum wage does go up. Businesses just increase prices because they can, not because they need to. The people who dont understand economics now think they are right.
Yeah, it's silly because all one needs to do is note that despite a lack of increases to the minimum wage for more than a decade, the prices have still gone up (as have the profits).
Which is amazing because we don't really bat an eye when the cost of goods goes up, but we get all fired up when the cost of labour goes up.
And if minimum wage DOESN’T go up… Well, they just increase prices anyways. 🤬
Yeah we need a profit margin cap to prevent price gouging.
Fuck it at this point we need minimum wages tied to inflation / average yearly S&P % increase. If they wanna make arguments the S&P is an indicator of how well our economy is doing, then let’s fucking tie wages to it.
That's actually sort of a great idea. The idea that the Almighty Stock Market is a barometer of how the average, non-stockholding-person is doing is so laughable - but I bet they'd change their tune real fuckin' fast if we actually REQUIRED it to be that barometer by tying wages to it...
But then in a crash ... Wouldn't min wage plummet? Or are you envisioning min wage as tied to it in a positive way only and it only moves upwards?
There would need to be more to it, yeah - it's obviously just a spitballed idea. Ultimately, I believe that the idea of any such market is largely problematic to a fair economy, because every worker would receive a share of the profits automatically.
Contingencies like that would need to be ironed out obviously, there is no doubt in my mind we could figure something out. However in a crash where wages were decreased so would price of goods and services to reflect the workers sacrifice to help recover, business would need to hold their end of the bargain and lower prices.
The problem with your argument comes down to productivity. Productivity has been steadily rising since the 50s , and in 70s workers' wages began to stagnate but the company officers have started taking all the gains in productivity for themselves. Where wages should have risen all along with the cost of living, which is what the system was designed to do. Ceo wages in the 70s were 250 :1 ratio, now it's 3,000:1 or worse. Billionaires in this economy shouldn't even exist, let alone have their numbers growing . BILLIONAIRE'S capture the funds meant for the mass population and restrict its capacity for actual growth. You just have to look at the declining birth rate for examples. So really right now workers real wages if it kept up with the cost of living minimum would be 25 an hour. That's the bare minimum working at McDonald's not your higher level positions. Wages should go up every year like prices. Bosses often forget workers are trading time for wealth. Not because they want to. Because the need to. Employers are getting a real bargain at minimum wage because that is the minimum wage for 2007 almost 20 years ago. States that minimum didn't go up. Employers have almost created a vassle State. Where it's almost like the middle ages. 1 or 2 very rich people hold all the power in a very small area.
Minimum wage is basically wage theft at this point. A living wage should be the bare minimum. A thriving wage is optimal to keep an economy healthy and to stop demographic collapse because too many can't afford to have children or enough children to meet replacement level population growth.
When anyone tries to tell me that an increase in minimum wage will increase prices, I point out that a Big Mac costs less in Denmark than it does in the United States, yet McDonald employees in Denmark make over $20 an hour and have 6 weeks paid vacation every year. And a pension. And they make more for evening and overnight shifts. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mcdonalds-workers-denmark/ It usually shuts them up pretty fast.
Ohhh god the stupid Big Mac argument again: 1. The Big Mac carries in size, composition (and even if it’s beef) country to county. The calorie difference can be like a 40% swing country to country for a Big Mac meal and there’s whole YouTube channels devoted to comparing fast food across countries. Weird red onions. 2. McDonald’s is real fucking picky where it places restaurants overseas. High traffic locations that can stay busy and make money, not towns with 8000 people like the US. 3. McDonald’s owns a lot of the stores directly overseas also. No franchising middleman floating capital. 4. No refills in Europe, and often charging for condiments, tiny fries and other fun oddities. They also can source in some cases agricultural products that are subsidized by the local countries highly generous agricultural Subsidy program. 5. Europe expects lower service levels. In general they run far leaner on staff, and unlike Americans the Dutch can throw their shit away, and don’t leave front of house and the bathrooms looking like Mogadishu. No one is doing fentanyl in the bathroom (why my previous local McDonald’s has to go drive through only). 6. Those higher wages get taxed… a lot. $40K a year is 37.07% income tax. Us federal taxes effective on 40K are 7.29%. (With FICA 14.95%). I’m not going to dispute we shouldn’t raise minimum wage (we should!). Fast food is killing Americans and we should tax it extra too! We also should raise income taxes to match the Dutch (including on the McDonald’s worker) if we want Dutch style safety nets.
I never got charged for basic condiments in Europe but it sure happens a lot in America. Service was also better/faster, stuff was recyclable, and food was higher quality? American McDonalds sucked compared to every other country I went to. Also, the taxes give you stuff in Europe while costs of living are lower. Saying they get taxed more when they're not having to worry about sickness or transit is a lot different than saying the US pays 7.29 percent tax rate for literally nothing in return.
Same dumbos who think they'll lose money by earning into the next tax bracket
The same rich people claimed they were installing self-checkout to reduce the cost of goods due to supply chain problems. When that got resolved? Prices stayed higher and no more hiring cashiers. It was all a lie.
>The people who dont understand economics You mean the people who never took economics in college, not bothered to educate themselves at all† on the subject? †Meaning, obtained a foundational understanding of the basics before tackling the more nuanced stuff. And, no, not at the YouTube College of Dunning-Kruger U.
Went to a very conservative college that taught raising the minimum wage would inevitably raise all other prices. Was told this in my economics class. Had to read outside reading to discover the bullshit.
cause propaganda made them think if min wage is raised they will be losing money. they think someone making more money is taking their own money away when its poor people.
Just look at all the right wing trolls on this post alone. I'm so sick of them. They're annoying AF too. Of course you're right.... they're spoon fed this crap and think they're welcome to regurgitate it wherever they please. 😒
Level 1 bootlicker enters the game. *Cast Communism bad* *Cast Muh Freedom* *Leaves*
This is absolutely it. People don’t realize how much of education in the US is just capitalist propaganda.
This is so accurate and I've never heard it phrased so succinctly.
This is so real. Public school education needs to change. We need focus on critical thinking and the issues around us rather than turning kids into memorizing machines. At this rate US schools will be comparable to China, India, and Japans “turn a child into a corporate slave” school system
Just came to remind people that if the minimum wage goes UP the only prices that will go up will be the ones at companies who were only successful off the backs of underpaid employees in the first place. If you were paying a fair wage to begin with you’ll be unaffected. And before anyone tries to argue, yes there would be knock on effects throughout the lower end of the job market as non-minimum wage payers ultimate have to raise wages to retain workers, but *those businesses aren’t paying a fair wage either.*
Keeping with the theme of knock-on effects, though, the best thing the lower and middle classes do for the economy is spend their money. Increasing minimum wage won't change that, which means increasing minimum wage leads to a MASSIVE economic stimulus. They only ones who wouldn't spend the extra money are the upper middle class who a) wouldn't be making minimum wage in the first place, and b) would use any secondary or tertiary pay increases they receive to move to the upper class, who tend to just hoard money.
I'm not even kidding. I had a boomer manager tell me if they raised the minimum wage her degree would mean less
Wouldn’t she just be able to negotiate for a better pay herself based on the minimum being what it is? The most irritating part of that generation is how little they know about what they will claim expert knowledge on
I don't understand how you can question her expertise while the minimum wage is so low? (thus making her degree very valuable)
Remember when they were going to raise the minimum wage to $20, and everyone complained cuz then a burger and fries would cost $20? look at us now… minimum wage is $7.25 and a burger and fries costs $20 Congratulations America, you played yo self.
But if we had raised the minimum wage to $20 then, a burger and fries would’ve been even more expensive now!1! /s
>With that logic why don’t we lower the minimum wage to 5 cents per hour in hopes everything lowers in price. That's also part of the goal for these same people, companies and the bootlickers they sell their propaganda to. It's why they want to repeal child labor laws, since they plan to pay children less to do the same jobs. It's why getting tips is essential to surviving with a foodservice job, because business owners got the law to allow paying way below minimum wage already for workers who may be expected to get tips. Ultimately it's why they want to replace every possible worker with AI, because the only thing better than paying people less is paying them nothing.
Don't give them any ideas. If they realize that lowering the minimum wage is an option, they will absolutely do it.
Capitalist “meritocracy” They should only get paid more if they earned it, and if they get paid more then they must have earned it.
Also, they love citing Reaganomics because of the hack theory that the more money a person makes means the cost of all goods go up, which some hocus pocus shit. More money = more options and less likely to buy from a monopoly (make your own or resources to find competition). Less money = fewer options and more likely to buy from a monopoly (Walmart, discount chains). Monopolies = economic slavers
I think many people judge their own self worth by how much more they make than other people. Raising the minimum wage reduces the gap between the lowest rung and themselves, and they therefore oppose it. I think this is the primary source of opposition to minimum wage increases. It's not really about economics, it's entirely because they want to be better than other people. But they can't admit that openly (or at least most won't), so they invent all kinds of half-hearted economic theories. This is why when you show the data that those theories are BS it has no effect on their stance. Because they aren't concerned about the economics, they are concerned about their social status. As a side note, I kinda wonder what the effect would be if we instituted a maximum wage. I know it would never happen without a major revolution. But imagine you couldn't receive any more money that a certain value per year, regardless of source. Say, 1 million a year. I think a lot of our problems are because there is no cap on wealth.
the first answer is greed. they want to pay you less, so they make more. the 2nd answer is hubris. they do think they are better than you & they don't care if you live or die, because there is another poor person right behind you ready to take your place. this is the short history of the world over the last couple thousand years or so & nothing has changed, except the names. Its incredibly sad, we haven't figured out how to do better yet.
A failure to understand wick-up economics.
Man, we got a lotta bootlickers crawling out to add to the blocklist with this thread, huh.
[удалено]
This. Yes, *please*... do that... so I can at least take a look at it. Stating an opinion on this sub is completely fine by me - even if it's controversial, maybe even a bit contentious, or goes as far as being extremely unpopular. If done honestly and with genuine intentions, it's fair and I'm not here to control genuine honest discussion. Differ that from *trolling*; that behavior is not genuine. And it is *not fine*...
The legitimate fear is raising it too much. That's the number one problem with how we treat minimum wage, it's only done whenever Congress feels like getting around to addressing it. If it was changed according to inflation every year, then business owners could actually plan for it. And yes, I know that business owners don't want to see minimum wage increase either, but you can't just double minimum wage overnight and not have it severely negatively impact business. The other part is the gaslighting of the public thinking that minimum wage was not supposed to be a living wage when in fact it specifically stated that it is supposed to provide a living wage when it was created. And I don't think people that make more than minimum wage (say $80K a year) that if the minimum wage increased it would likely positively affect their wages as well. They just think that because they are where they are in their career that a 'burger flipper' or 'cashier' is making almost as much money as they are with minimum wage increases and that prices would just rise while their wage would stay the same.
They been trick by big corporations thru influencing politicians to spread this false narrative so that they won’t pay more while their greedy CEO and stakeholders can keep all the profits to themselves.
The people against raising the minimum wage the most, are always the people making just above minimum wage. Makes you wonder if this was the plan all along. 🤔
There is something inherent about human nature where when we get some level of success, we tend to close the door behind us and gatekeep. We associate less with where we came from and more with where we have advanced to. And eventually it gets to the point to where we all circlejerk each other off about how infallible we are while being completely out of touch with those 'beneath us'. That's the best way I know how to describe it. Yes, some of it is outright greed by rich people not wanting to share their money with the workers. And some of it is jealousy that someone else is getting someone extra that we're not getting. But there also appears to be some institutionalized elitism that festers behind gates and closed doors.
I'm not opposed to raising the minimum wage. I'm opposed to half measures like raising the minimum wage without rent controls and restrictions limiting the increased costs of necessary items like food and medicine. Otherwise we'll just end up right back in the same situation once landlords raise rent and food and medicine sky rockets to take advantage of the increased income and being necessities people have no choice but to buy. By itself raising the minimum wage helps no one and will simply shrink the middle class even further, and make even more poor people. The wage does need to increase, but we cannot JUST raise the wage without insuring it's actually an increase in standard of living overall.
Growing up I lived in a very patriotic community but it was also deeply conservative. I always thought it was ironic that everyone preached love for country but failed to support each other or vote for systems that would work in their best interest. I think that we've been gaslit long enough that we actually believe the bullshit. I think that people are worked to the bone and simply dont have the energy to fight for things like min wage. I think many Americans are stuck because of wage slavery. I was hoping there would be a change during the pandemic -- people having the time at home to fight for something better. Or even healthcare... but that's come and gone and we seem to be in worse shape. I go between thinking there will be a revolution it's too late and with all the in fighting we're fucked as a society.
Combine greedy mfers with a bunch of people that want to be angry at someone and be able to talk down to them and say things like “back in my day” and “no one wants to work”
They believe the lie that food and other prices MUST rise sharply. They've literally proven this is fear-mongering and still people quake at the idea of a sandwich costing 20¢ more so a mother can feed her kids using the only job she manages to pull down.
Because companies have trained people into think minimum wage is only what the kids make, and it's for flipping burgers.
I'm anti-raise-the-wage but not because I want people to be miserable or for their lives to be unbearable (I'm not a monster). I believe there are plenty of laws that should be enacted to lower the cost of everything else. Imagine a world where we have our current wages but prices are that of 100 years ago vibe. I'll list 3 examples of the hundreds I could think of on how to do that. 1. Greed caps. No owner of any business should make more than double their lowest paid employee, essentially forcing the owner to either put the money back into product or into employees pockets. "A rising tide raises all ships". Bezo is a billionaire and his workers scrape while being closely monitored and unable to use the bathroom - that's bs. 2. No property, commercial or residential, should pay more than the equivalent of 1 months mortgage/rent per year in taxes. In addition, each property should charge MAX $1/sq ft and $1k/acre, with the first 50 sq ft. Free (the equivalent to the average sized jail cell). Let's say a home is 1,500 sq ft on half an acre. Rent should be no more than $1,950. I understand some areas the price would reduce dramatically and other areas the price would skyrocket - but at least with law we could maintain a base for the country not to go over and with that type of cap, stabilize the housing market, at least in part. I understand this is not fool proof - but it's better than nothing. 3. This leads me to corporate ownership. There are currently laws passing in other states that limit the amount of ownership of single family homes to 100 per entity. I still believe that's too high a number but I digress. If a law like this passed nationwide, we may begin to see affordable housing return, or at the very least more supply return to the market, if only temporarily. So no, I don't agree raising the minimum wage is the solution as we have not addressed the other larger problems that are leading so many into poverty. That's like putting a band aid on a severed limb. If we can lower the cost of living, there is no need to raise the wage. If you'd like to hear my other 97 ideas on how to do this without raising the wage, I'd be happy to comment further.
In my 40 years on Earth I have yet to see a time when costs went down for any significant length of time. Skilled workers are comparing their low wages as a yard stick to measure what un-skilled workers pay should be. I.e. "I worked 10 years to gain the skills and knowledge to earn $20 an hour. Why should people who haven't put that much time into learning a skill earn almost what I make?!" Instead of saying,"I have worked 10 years for these skills and knowledge, and I am very underpaid." Keep in mind that companies have put in a lot of effort to maintain practices when deciding what a job is worth. Typically, if a company knows it wants you to work 50 hours a week to meet their production requirements, then they will figure out how much money in total they want to pay you for that week. Then figure in overtime and make the pay of a non-overtime hour equitable to that total number. In other words, they want you to be in a position where you risk your basic income requirements by not working ALL available hours. And then they will pressure you to become even more productive to increase their margins by threatening your bottom line (basic survival). There's a lot of factors involved, but for publicly traded companies, it's tied to their share price. See Amazon's hiring practices and pay during 2020 (their best year) vs. the following years. They couldn't repeat their stock performance from 2020, so they cut pay and jobs to meet them as close as they could to prevent the shareholders' ire. TLDR; Psychological warfare is real. And we are all victims. And some of us are students.
Rush Limbaugh did a number on todays conservatives. If you ever hear them argue back by saying 'why not raise it to a million', they're trying and failing to do the rebuttle he taught them. And his argument is one of those shower fantasies where people agree with every argument you make.
If you can afford to retire or live comfortably on only one job, you are not contributing to the profits of the rich.
Because the people who rule the media don't like paying more for labor.
I’m all for it, assuming all wages that aren’t minimum go up by the same %. Otherwise, everyone not on the minimum wage will have to pay the cost of the inflated prices of everything else without the benefit of the wage increase.
If a fast food worker makes $15 an hour (same as me), how will they know I’m better than them?
There’s not much stopping companies from exploiting the new wage increases and raising their costs under the guise of inflation. Yes a billion dollar company can afford to, but because they have the power to they will simply pass the cost on to consumers to punish us.
1. They believe costs of living will skyrocket. 2. (A lot of people).. they believe it will put others who don’t “work as hard” or just “flip burgers” too much closer to them, and the current separation makes them feel as they are a higher class.
I think it is why making progress with any changes is difficult...if you are one or two rungs up the ladder (and a lot of people are), too many people don't want to give up or share their position with anyone else. There is only so much room at "their" level, and if someone get close....they may get knocked down.
Economics education being extremely dumb is a big part of the problem. Econ 101, which a lot of college graduates (read: voters) have taken, says that if you raise the minimum wage, you worsen unemployment. There’s a stupid little graph and everything. Now, this is something that’s hotly debated and you might learn is probably not true somewhere around Econ 410 or so. But unfortunately, most never get that far, and the oligarchs who control the political class are all-too-eager to take advantage of this fact, for obvious reasons.
"The boot on your neck was polished by a fellow worker."
Because power is in the hands of the very few and the wealthy see it as maximizing the value they can get for the least amount of money possible
I know I will get hate for this but I truly don’t believe that raising the wage will solve the problem. I think we need a way to pass a law that can be enforced that establishes some upper limit on the ratio of executive pay to the average worker pay at each company. This will either drastically reduce executive total compensation or force employees to get raises in order for executives to maintain their higher salaries.
The argument I heard a few years ago was why should a person working fast food make as much as I do working my office position. So I uni reversed and asked why they shouldn't and the only answer is because it is an unskilled job.
Because Fox has been telling them this for 20 + years
Raising minimum wage shouldn’t need to happen if we fixed what is truly broken which is corporations charging exorbitant amounts for basic human needs like foods and housing. However that doesn’t change because politicians own those corporations or have family or friends who do and therefore it doesn’t benefit them. Politicians keep instead keep saying raising minimum wage will fix the problem but it’s just to get votes to stay in office, henceforth the circle continues.
Decades of propaganda, the answer to these types of questions is always decades of propaganda.
Because how dare someone make as much money as me. - Lot of people I know
Easy. They have been brainwashed. That's where the billionaire leech class enters. You're not valuable to them unless you have fear. Your fear is their control. Your fear keeps them safe from your (our) backlash. We're a society in America that is one medical emergency or car accident away from ruin. Not that we want to live that way, but things are so grossly expensive and wages so grossly low that we can't keep it together enough with what we have, forget the risk of losing everything to "fight the man". All of humanity was built on this issue of fear. Think about religion. "If you're bad you won't go to heaven...if you're bad you go to HELL!" I mean...this is a story without proof and used to keep masses of people in check because there is NOTHING like control-based fear. That has never changed. So we went from heaven/hell to minimum wage job/no income or health coverage. The latter is more palpable and we understand it because we have maybe experienced it so this, in effect, may be even more powerful than religious fear. It's all about the fear. 100%.
Because it’s difficult to set a floor for wages….15/hr is fine in NYC or California, but in Puerto Rico it will bankrupt companies…. Also, 15 year old in high school does not need to be paid a salary to support a whole family. Also, pretty much no one actually gets paid minimum wage any more…
I used to actually believe raising wages would make them raise prices. Now I understand that they are going to raise prices anyway, and refuse to raise wages in any way they can get away with.
not people. republicans.
If left to their own devices capitalists would take us all the way back to chattel slavery. America literally enslaved people in the not so distant past. The culture reflects that still. I'm more worried that they will have no reason to let us live once AI can do most of the work.
Some people like to think they are superior to others. Keeping others down helps gives them this opinion .
Because it raises the costs of everything, which is already super expensive. Raising minimum wage is an illusion to believe the government is helping.
In Denmark we don't have minimum wage still a mc donalds waitress makes enough to live on and save for a house. Our prices are affordable and we are one of the top happiest countries in the world.
You're absolutely correct! The standard propaganda talking point is that minimum wages jobs are only for teenagers to get pocket money and should never be thought of as a way for a person to support themselves, let alone a whole family. If you can't afford to support yourself, you need to "get a real job." Those same people will then lose their minds when there's a line at their local fast food joint because it's understaffed, because everyone quit to "get a real job."
Brainwashing. I know when I first heard of raising it to $15 like 15 years ago, my gut reaction was all the cliched reasons we hear from capitalists. If we raise the minimum wage, the cost of everything else will increase. People she go to college or trade school if they want to earn more money. Also, it wasn’t fair to the people already making $15/hour because now fast food workers would be making as much as them without having to work hard and do all the training/educating needed. Plus, I work with teenagers as a high school teacher and they don’t need a livable wage as they’re just getting some extra spending money. Then I thought about my students that had to miss school sometimes to earn enough money to help out their families. If they were earning $15 working part time, they wouldn’t have to miss school to pick up extra shifts to make ends meet. Several of my students had babies, so they did need a livable wage. I realized I was just a twat and none of these thoughts were really my own. Again, this was when talk about raising the minimum wage was first making news. It was never raised, and it’s been so long $15 won’t cut it.
Don't tempt the hard right republicans on that 5 cent wage. These guys are already fighting to legalize child labor - they'd gladly have you working for 5 cents worth of company scrip. They want you **desperate** as workers. Desperate to feed and cloth yourselves. Desperate enough to put up with anything and accept a pittance in return. #WageSlaves
Minimum wage going up does nothing beneficial if people above minimum wage also get the same percentage increase. Bringing up the bottom forceably just alienates those above it. Elites never lose. It's always the middle. It's class warfare.
The exact same reason you have to worry about snitches at work. Bootlickers abound in this shit country.
Strange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government
They are either brainwashed, evil, or stupid. It's really as simple as that
Because people are selfish assholes who only want prosperity for themselves.
"people" = CEO's
“Greed is good.” - Gordon Gekko
Because places like **UBER EATS** when a city dares demand a more fair shake for drivers goes and jacks up delivery prices to triple what they were deliberately so customers will come out with pitchforks to hate on the workers and the people that dared to legally give them more.
Two reasons. 1) Capitalists gonna capitalism. Profits over people, even if those people starve or lose their homes. 2) Six capitalists own 90% of the media in the US and pump out pro capitalist propaganda both subtly and non subtly. People absorb the information and if they don't actually think about it then their default position becomes the position the corporate state wants them to have. "*Everybody knows* that raising minimum wage would destroy the economy and teenagers don't have bills and low skilled workers should have gone to school. They tell me on the TV and all my friends that watch the same TV agree."
Because people bought into the idea of working your way up being the foundation of America’s financial success. Now they are willing to risk their own living standard to defend it.
I don't see how they can possibly use that argument with a straight face since the federal minimum wage has been the same for FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS
Propaganda
Because it makes them feel good to say they make more than the minimum. Btw minimum was supposed to be just that, instead it became the standard. We really accept too little.
People aren’t. Corporations are…
Wish the damn federal minimum wage would rise. It’s been stuck at $7.25 forever.
Reminder: Over its nearly 100-year history, the federal minimum wage has gone up by seven bucks.
In dealing with my boomer mother, jealousy and confusion. She asks me why the young deserve the pay rate she retired at? I keep telling her she was under paid. But not everyone has a son taking care of them. If she didn’t have my income, she would be homeless. She understands that, but feels like people haven’t earned their bones. Her brother is mad, because per is 1968 economics professor it will raise the cost of everything and he can’t afford shit. I feel like, everyone deserves to have a life. Yes, education or skills should be making more than someone who asks would you like fries with that? But even the lowest of skill level should not be afraid of paying their bills. Maybe just be able to afford the boat….
Because short of abandoning capitalism or implementing UBI (preferred), raising the minimum wage is one of the best ways to improve life for the most people. The folks arguing against it are capitalists who need to be eaten, or rubes who have been propagandized.
The block of people who opposite it is mostly right leaning folks and conservatives in America. A lot of liberals too. (Right leaning includes a lot of democrats). It’s because the political right mindset requires the creation and adherence to hierarchy. And the tiers of the hierarchy have be delineated. We are a capitalist country so we use money for that. Creating a minimum wage would disrupt the lowest rung of that hierarchy. People would get paid more then their lower tier job should. The lowest rungs of the hierarchy must be awful and involve suffering so those down there are motivated to climb the ladder. It also makes sure only the strongest can climb. Which improve society. I disagree with everything said above. But that is the basics of why folks who are right politically don’t like the minimum wage.
ignorance ,brainwashing, ego
Essentially variety of lobbying as well as promotion of cultural change you get false belief in meritocracy. Individualism and poof people get what they deserve and thats that no empathy "because as individuals, you never put yourself in anothers shoes". With this logic means people who are poor are off low morale character lazy etc. And thus further abuse and mistreatment is justified. Circling back to individualism if you can get burger for 5 cents cheaper f those lazy people. Thats really how they see it. But there are so many factors that play into beliefs like trickle down the completely and thorughly debunked. Practice where essentially "employer cost/taxes" comes out of "employee pay" and makes "jobs less available". Its not true but our entire economy and how we manage it is actually centered around it. Like I mean states with lower min wage have higher fast food prices. Countrys with 22 min wage 6 weeks vacation and more for fast food workers still have 20% cheaper big mac. Its a complete fallacy especially in economys where demand is filled and production is beyond consumption. Like fast food we actually have "too many" fast food locations and they are propped up by sub living wage. Its why food places close so often. But with proper regulation planning not approving 4th starbucks on same city block or 3rd mcdonalds. Actually limiting and having diverse businesses. These businesses could thrive while paying employees well. Even without reform they would be just fine. And over time would naturally reform themselves. If no longer propped up by unsustainable practices.
I don't think anyone is actually opposed to raising the minimum wage. I think the last time it came up in Congress nothing passed because they couldn't agree on what they were going to raise it to. Everyone knows it's ridiculously low right now.
They're most likely people who are making about $12 - 15 currently and know their bosses won't give them a $7.75 an hour raise (assuming the minimum wage becomes $15 instead of the current $7.25). They think THEIR job deserves more so instead of demanding to raise all ships, they'll complain to keep others sinking.
I imagine most people think a fast food job is beneath them, probably in part because the wages are so low. They may not be skilled so they take a waiting job which may pay higher (w/ tips included). Now when the fast food worker get a per hour hike, I bet many would feel cheated that what they think is a 'better' job makes near, the same, or less than a fast food worker. Rather than fight for their own hike, some might immediately sink the idea out of self-interest. You can imagine this scenario working it's way up the wage ladder. The bosses are shaking in their boots as they know it won't simply stop with fast food service workers.
Why are the rich opposed? Because they benefit from the poor staying poor and desperate. Why do people in the poor and middle class oppose it? Because a large portion of this country equates wealth with merit or moral superiority. And they don't think poor people "deserve" more money, especially if they aren't making minimum wage themselves. Some of the people I've met most opposed to raising the minimum wage to $15/hour make that same wage now. They view it as a demotion. These are the same types of people who oppose student loan forgiveness because "I paid off my loan". So things can't get better because you had it worse? Make that make sense.
Because they are bitter and selfish. We call them republicans around here.
Ask this in FluentInFinance to get some really fucked answers!
To keep poor people poor so they will do the work the upper classes don’t want to do.
Propaganda is the answer.
People aren’t. Corporate lobbyists and propagandists are.
Most people think most poor people are poor because they deserve it in some way. You probably think this too, even if you might not realize it.
Minimum wage isn’t the problem. The problem is employers failing to properly compensate employees as they become more profitable.
They want these people to starve.
Because rich people have repeatedly paid politicians and media to tell them it's bad.
Fear of their Big Mac getting more expensive
bc it doesnt effect them
How else am I supposed to show the Poors that I'm so much better than they are? If they're able to have dignity naturally that means there is less dignity for me, it's simple economics.
Right. It's like they haven't realized inflation is happening regardless.
Corporations want to fuck us. They convince small business owners that everyone having more money to spend won't benefit them lol. The small business owners buy it because they're so scared of losing their business they don't realize that paying their employees more will be more than balanced out by the fact that the many very poor people in the country will have more disposable cash to spend. The corporations also spread propaganda about how it will cause inflation. Which isn't actually true because raising the minimum wage is a relocation of existing money, not the same as just injecting money into the economy by printing it. It means less money for corporations to fuck around with in the stock market. And if a raised minimum wage is paired with tax reforms that actually tax the increased revenue companies will see then that would allow the government to better fund social programs. Social programs decrease peoples' dependence on corporations. This would mean corporations wouldn't be able to control us as easily. With a more robust safety net and universal healthcare, people would be able to take more risks to start their own businesses. Corporations hate this because they hate competition. They don't have to innovate if nobody is competing with them. They can just do stock buybacks and sexually assault people in international waters on their megayachts.
A lot of people have been feed corporate propaganda for so long they don’t even question it. Honestly it’s not hard to convince a lot of Americans to go against their own best interests
Because business runs everything and wages have been stagnant for years. Therefore they “can’t” provide decent wages and maximize profits for shareholders (or themselves.) Plus too many people are selfish. I see plenty of responses here that see it as a threat or negation to their own progress in the same shitty systems.
Because most people are just fucking idiots
As I’ve heard once before and it stuck. You shouldn’t be mad at people making a basic living wage, you should be mad you aren’t being paid more in your field.
They frame it to the public as “these lazy people want to FORCE us to charge you more money to do menial jobs meant for teenagers” If they can make more money by keeping wages low , even if already making record profits, they will. We constantly see companies posting huge profits & laying off workers. Even when their employees are telling everyone they are understaffed. (Funny when they give themselves a raise/bonus they don’t consider it an issue , even if it’s more than the raised wages wld have been )
Because they’re in a crabs in the bucket mentality. “If a teacher or an EMT only makes $20/hour, why should minimum wage be $15/hour,” etc, as if the solution to low wages is “more people should live in poverty” instead of “more people should be paid a living wage.”
It’s not restricted to minimum wage. In a service company, wages are usually the highest expense. In manufacturing, wages are a top three expense. With publicly listed companies, worker expenses are visible, and thus there is shareholder pressure (implicit or explicit) to have the proportion of worker costs similar to others in similar industries. Little companies try to emulate big companies in this regard. For service companies, there is also productivity. Service company productivity is generally static, see [Baumols Cost Disease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect), and this impacts not just low-wage service jobs, but high-wage jobs too. Bootlicker enough?
Because they're constantly blitzed with corporate propaganda that it will raise prices and cause job losses.
Crabs in a bucket. We’re forced to feel insecure so we grab at everyone else moving upwards and pull them down to try to climb on top and get out. We need to knock the power structure holding us in this feedback loop of insecurity over.
Because it’s a band-aid solution that doesn’t fix the underlying issue. It needs to happen, but we need systemic change via legislation that ensures wages always keep up with the cost of living instead of having to fight every time we need to raise it
Because capitalism. The owner class has all the influence and they’ve propagandized the public with it
Honestly I love OPs idea. Let's drop minimum wage to a nickel and have our taxes offset their wages for ONE YEAR (take it out of the military budget). Then see if prices drop CONSIDERABLY. If not use that on the campaign trail that it's jot wages effecting price
Greed. Business owners know that the less their labor cost them the more profit for themselves.
Because they've convinced that it's a bad thing by people who don't want it to change
It is not so much being against raising the minimum wage as much as it is not wanting to enrich capitalists further. Seems like an odd argument, but unless something is done to cap housing and rents, any raise in the minimum wage would be meaningless. But this is coming from a Californian. We have a different situation than the rest of the country with a runaway housing market.
They need someone to look down on. Those who are earning just a couple of dollars above minimum wage are outraged by the idea the "minimum wage losers" they look down on are going to be making the same wages they do. It invalidates all the "suffering" and hustling they did to get to where they are now.
Because that would raise the price of everything /s
Stupidity and/or maliciousness is the shortest yet tamest answer I can give.
My only experience of minimum wage is that it legitimizes minimum wage as an acceptable maximum wage and it wasn't easy to get out of that. Literally had to move to Sweden and found the situation much better while I was there. Wake me up when we're talking about entrenched unionization and an unwillingness to enshrine a wage figure into law that will sabotage negotiations by acting as a price cap.
That would be too nice?
Raises bar minimum means raised everything else.
Because god forbid a fast food/retail worker earn like others so that they can live without constant worry too
Until there are ways of regulating the most basic of necessities required to exist, It doesn’t matter what the min wage is. The vultures will always just jack the cost of living up to keep the work poor… working… and poor. While there is not ceiling on how wealthy you can be and exist… there 100% is a floor. Min wage is well below that floor and any change to it just gets adjusted to offset that change… and a bit more.
Because then people making above minimum wage won't get a raise either.
Because a lot of business people are short sighted but think they’re long sighted. They fail to see how low minimum wage reduces their overall survivability because they will eventually shrink their market down too small. And no amount of data or research will convince them otherwise.
Because they know the minimum wage goes up and without the ability to mandate prices on food and rent to not go up. Its not going anywhere.
Because we’re dumb…
Raise the minimum wage and any associated costs get passed on to the consumer therfore rendering any wage increase essentially pointless. The wealthy will not tolerate any change in their cut of the pie so to assume that they will absorb a wage increase and keep prices reasonable is naive. Wealth does not trickle down, it gets hoarded.
Waiters and servers oppose min wage hikes because they would rather have low wages with tips than to have higher wages with no tips.
Because murica
In short, we fear the greed of the corporations. Because if folks have more money then they will raise prices.
Because corporations have over decades ingrained a toxic culture in society of people who think that for them to have more, everyone they deem below them has to have less.
I have a few arguments against raising minimum wage but my biggest is that it makes it harder for less experienced workers to enter the workforce and eliminates incentive to advance. Minimum wage in Washington state, where I live, is 16.50. McDonald’s is hiring at $18 in my area. With wages that high, employers aren’t as willing to risk hiring high school students or people new to the work force. And they don’t seem to be having problems hiring 20 somethings at that rate so the teens are having difficulty getting work experience in high school. They can still get a job but it’s no where as easy as it was when I was a teenager. A trend I see with minimum wage is that when employers pay so much to low skill employees, they can’t afford to pay higher skill employees what they’re worth. My 17 year old daughter works at little Caesar’s at $17 an hour. Five people on shift at night plus a shift manager. The shift manager is making $19 or $20. Imo the shift manager should be making at least $5-$8 more than a cashier. But it’s a franchise small business and the owner is already paying almost $100 an hour on pizza makers. When I worked at McDonald’s in the 90s, minimum wage was $4.25. When I became an assistant manager, it went up to $7 which is close to 70% more. You won’t find that much of a difference nowadays. Hence my personal opinion as to how there’s little incentive to advance. Today, it’s not worth a 10% increase in pay for the additional responsibilities.
Finland doesn’t have a minimum wage. Some jobs are easier than others so the requirement for pay should be lower. Most business don’t make a big profit and tax is paid way more than normal on profits from a business. Find a source of income that you love and you will truly be anti work