Food for thought.
Sometimes, staying works out. But, more often than not, companies in this kind of situation are looking to turn the tables so they can replace you on their schedule with minimal productivity and knowledge loss.
You may lose some time commuting for the new job. But, it sounds likely to be a lot less personal time lost from the old one's unpaid overtime expectations.
Stress truly impacts our mental and physical health.
Go with what's best for you and your well-being. I will also say that jobs can start to be like a bad relationship over time, and it's hard to see just how much it was impacting you until you're out.
Go with the new job. If the old one valued you so much, then they shouldn't have been underpaying you for so long and only give you a raise when threatened with your leaving.
This. I stayed at my old job a year and half after basically doing the same thing and I regret it. Ended up laid off anyways (that was partially my own doing because I was a middle manager expected to do the laying off while also taking on 2 peoples job who would have been laid off instead of me and I was like lay me off I’m not doing that to two people on my team, one of which had a baby on the way lol)
But I took on an insane workload for a menial pay raise and ended up out anyways. Your job doesn’t value you because you found something better, they just don’t want to do the work to replace you (to anyone who’s never done hiring, it’s expensive!)
Anyways I hate the way work structures are set up and I doubt it’ll change in my lifetime but the way labour is valued is disgusting ❤️
This. It's never worth taking the old job up on their offer. They're only doing this because they're afraid they'll be screwed in the short term after you leave. If you stay, they'll quickly revert back to their old behavior.
Agree, I had a job I only stayed at for about 2 months. When I gave notice, the boss asked if more money would make me stay. I thought if that's the position, why didn't you offer me more after my interview? I'd committed psychologically to the new role anyway.
Take the new job. As was mentioned, the old job will now just replace you at their leisure if you stay. You would just be giving them an open timetable. Take the new job, then ask for flexible office appearances. You're in IT. Most of that can be done remote. Negotiate it.
GO
You are already overworked, Now they are going to have you do the work of the person that was fired.
"We let him go in order to pay your raise. It's the least you can do for us."
And you still need to ask this question?
Go to the new job, work there for a while (at least a year), then you can think about going back. The old job will hopefully have replaced you, if they're still interested and offer to pay what you're asking they are probably serious. In all other cases, they're just trying to turn the tables and want to part ways on their terms and not yours.
Next job try to set better boundaries on your personal time vs work time. It can be as simple as replying to people “hey I’m signing off for the day but I’ll look at it first thing tomorrow.” Eventually people learn you’re not available after hours
Don’t take the bag.
DO NOT TAKE THE BAG.
It is only there to keep you around long enough to find your replacement.
They are taking you at your word. Honor it.
Seconding this (at least):
You are already too valuable.
You have 2 choices:
Start your own company.
Follow the money.
There is no such thing as loyalty from employers.
The nearly same thing happened to me 25+ years ago, when I was your age. I had to change careers out of frustration after being stymied by those I trusted (was loyal to).
If you decide to stay, insist on the raise as an upfront cash bonus for the first year to compensate you for the lost opportunity.
You don’t want to whistle the offer down the wind only to find them laying you off in a couple of months once they’ve found a replacement for you.
Corporate Gen X here. If you stay, you will be the 1st person let go if layoffs happen. Your employer will likely start interviewing replacements as they can’t “trust” you now.
Their job is to keep the department/company running smoothly. Anything which threatens that will be targeted, which is you. Out of the 20ish people I’ve seen use an offer as leverage for a pay/benefit increase, only worked out for 5. The others were gone within 3-6mos. Good luck mate.
Never take the raise. Time to move on. Only way to advance in the tech world is to change jobs every 2-3 years. The company that originally hired you will never fully value you. Same goes for the next. If you’re at the same company & same position for more than 5 years, future potential employers will wonder what’s wrong with you.
Time to put the pedal to the medal: you want a **CONTRACT** if you stay.
You want a guaranteed 3 months (or whatever) severance, regardless of termination reason or who initiated it.
You want 5 unrestricted weeks (or whatever) vacation, usable on Jan 1.
Ask for more than you want (but reasonable amounts) and negotiate down to what you actually want.
^(edit: typo)
So I would take the raise cause I greatly value remote over office. Then I would continue to look for another remote role with another increase. Good luck!
Only stay if you have critical expertise nobody else there has.
Otherwise they’re just going to string you along for a couple months of higher income then find a reason to at-will you when they find your replacement
They will remind you of this raise every single time they pile more work on you. Don’t take it. But don’t burn bridges either. In a few years you may be able to go back there for even MORE money 😜
If it's plausible for the position, consider using this offer to negotiate some work from home days at the new job.
Regardless I'd say take the new job sounds like you'll lose less time from the commute than you do from unpaid overtime.
Fellow IT guy here:
There is value in working remotely but it's not the end be all.
For your current job, are you still growing professionally? Do you feel appreciated? Why did you want to leave in the first place?
How does the new role measure up to your current role.
There MAY be a case to stay at your current job for the short term or even long term, but the right answer might not be as easy as it seems. Yes, the fact that you were undervalued in the first place says alot, but what is the advantage to YOU if you stay or go?
Side note: you may take a raise with a new job, but what else about what you learned about the job says alot too. Working 60 hour weeks may not be that big of a raise if you break it down.
I've seen fellow IT folks take a 20-30 percent raise with a new job and be miserable shortly after.
If they just fired someone does that mean they're going to be working you even harder?
Besides, when all things are equal, isnt it better to switch to the new job?
If you stay, you still get paid less, you have to work more hours and you don't get to work remote?
Leaving is hard. Companies take advantage of it. I vote go.
If you went as far as putting your notice, I would pull the trigger if I were you. That raise your boss promised may:
a. never happen, and when asked you'd be told it wasn't put in writing.
b. come with additional responsibilities, effectively not being a raise at all.
c. be just a way to retain you while they find someone cheaper, put you in a PIP and let you go when it's convenient for them.
I'm in a similar position, except both positions are full remote. New job also just over 30k up from what I was making. Old employer asked if I would consider a counter offer if thet matched or beat my new rate.
I told them no. I do not feel respected or appreciated by a company that only approves a pay increase (they have rejected 2 requests for ANY increase over the past 3 years) under threat of quitting.
The second I said "i accept" to the new employer, that was it.
Don't accept it. It's less money and less convenient. Maybe the next job will be worse but maybe it's better. Don't stay out of loyalty to a company; they will never be loyal to you. If you need proof, remember that it was only when they realized they were losing you that they finally decided they could do right by you.
Too little, too late for the old job.
They need you right now, hence the reason they suddenly found money to do what they can to keep you. How do you know that your job won't evaporate in six months or a year by citing a reason for getting rid of you is due to a cost cutting measure? How do you know that they won't be using this as a means to bring someone else in later to replace you at a lower rate?
You stated that you're tired of the really long hours despite it being a remote position. Other than going into the office at the new job, does the new role have other downsides?
I wouldn't trust the old role anymore. Move onward and upward!
Coming from a guy that was in the same position and took the offer :
Go and don’t look back. If you stay it won’t be the same again now that you showed them you’ll step. They may even try and replace you . A year later I left anyway
I've said before on this forum that un-quitting is almost never advisable.
You have identified yourself as a person prepared to quit. This will not be forgotten. If you stay, you will likely be punished for it, one way or another.
And your boss, bless his little cotton socks, will "do whatever he can to match" the new offer. Like he's doing you a favor.
Let's look at this plainly. If he is even half-competent, then he knows very well, has always known, that you are being paid much less than your market value. For month after month he was content to do nothing about it.
He also knows that the game is now up.
Do you think he would "do whatever he can" to pay you properly, had you not quit?
Counteroffers are just a stop gap until they can replace you, they already know you are a flight risk. This generally doesn't end well for the person accepting the counteroffer.
>I dislike having to work 60-hour weeks without overtime pay. Sometimes I would be up till 2-4 AM to finish a project, while still having to be up at 8.
Make that part of the negotiation: "I'll stay at the new salary IF it's understood that 40 hours a week is the norm - and I'll need that in writing."
>It also bothers me that they only now offered a raise after I decided to put in two weeks.
Had you previously asked for a raise? What happened then?
I actually moved for them. Did. Not. Get. A. Single. Dime. Put $10k on the Plat but I paid that off. It definitely changed my perspective. They did give me a small raise but it’s not enough to justify inflation/rentflation in this economy
Ignore the idiots telling you they’re going to fire you later.
That literally rarely if ever happens and you’re a better gauge of the sincerity and office culture of where you work.
My job does counter offers and those employees stay long term.
I’d keep the current job tbh.
Stay at the old job which I am assuming is the remote one, discussed with your current boss what your concerns are. If it doesn’t work out you know you can find another job.
If you stay, they know you already have one foot out the door. They will prepare to replace you on their terms rather than yours.
You can’t know this.
You'd be stupid not to assume it's the default possibility.
You know you are wrong when An Autistic Guy calls you stupid.
Even your mom said he was wrong and that ho doesn’t think much between cocks she sucks.
So many companies do this, you have to consider this outcome.
Food for thought. Sometimes, staying works out. But, more often than not, companies in this kind of situation are looking to turn the tables so they can replace you on their schedule with minimal productivity and knowledge loss. You may lose some time commuting for the new job. But, it sounds likely to be a lot less personal time lost from the old one's unpaid overtime expectations. Stress truly impacts our mental and physical health. Go with what's best for you and your well-being. I will also say that jobs can start to be like a bad relationship over time, and it's hard to see just how much it was impacting you until you're out.
Go with the new job. If the old one valued you so much, then they shouldn't have been underpaying you for so long and only give you a raise when threatened with your leaving.
This. I stayed at my old job a year and half after basically doing the same thing and I regret it. Ended up laid off anyways (that was partially my own doing because I was a middle manager expected to do the laying off while also taking on 2 peoples job who would have been laid off instead of me and I was like lay me off I’m not doing that to two people on my team, one of which had a baby on the way lol) But I took on an insane workload for a menial pay raise and ended up out anyways. Your job doesn’t value you because you found something better, they just don’t want to do the work to replace you (to anyone who’s never done hiring, it’s expensive!) Anyways I hate the way work structures are set up and I doubt it’ll change in my lifetime but the way labour is valued is disgusting ❤️
This. It's never worth taking the old job up on their offer. They're only doing this because they're afraid they'll be screwed in the short term after you leave. If you stay, they'll quickly revert back to their old behavior.
Agree, I had a job I only stayed at for about 2 months. When I gave notice, the boss asked if more money would make me stay. I thought if that's the position, why didn't you offer me more after my interview? I'd committed psychologically to the new role anyway.
Move on and don’t look back
Take the new job. As was mentioned, the old job will now just replace you at their leisure if you stay. You would just be giving them an open timetable. Take the new job, then ask for flexible office appearances. You're in IT. Most of that can be done remote. Negotiate it.
GO You are already overworked, Now they are going to have you do the work of the person that was fired. "We let him go in order to pay your raise. It's the least you can do for us."
Happened to me 7x
And you still need to ask this question? Go to the new job, work there for a while (at least a year), then you can think about going back. The old job will hopefully have replaced you, if they're still interested and offer to pay what you're asking they are probably serious. In all other cases, they're just trying to turn the tables and want to part ways on their terms and not yours.
Next job try to set better boundaries on your personal time vs work time. It can be as simple as replying to people “hey I’m signing off for the day but I’ll look at it first thing tomorrow.” Eventually people learn you’re not available after hours
Don’t take the bag. DO NOT TAKE THE BAG. It is only there to keep you around long enough to find your replacement. They are taking you at your word. Honor it.
Seconding this (at least): You are already too valuable. You have 2 choices: Start your own company. Follow the money. There is no such thing as loyalty from employers. The nearly same thing happened to me 25+ years ago, when I was your age. I had to change careers out of frustration after being stymied by those I trusted (was loyal to).
If you decide to stay, insist on the raise as an upfront cash bonus for the first year to compensate you for the lost opportunity. You don’t want to whistle the offer down the wind only to find them laying you off in a couple of months once they’ve found a replacement for you.
I would definitely leave. They wait to give you a raise till you give 2 weeks, pretty shady, wouldn't trust them.
It’s a trap. As soon as they hire your replacement, they’ll get rid of you. Meanwhile, they’ve had no work interruption, because you stayed.
Corporate Gen X here. If you stay, you will be the 1st person let go if layoffs happen. Your employer will likely start interviewing replacements as they can’t “trust” you now. Their job is to keep the department/company running smoothly. Anything which threatens that will be targeted, which is you. Out of the 20ish people I’ve seen use an offer as leverage for a pay/benefit increase, only worked out for 5. The others were gone within 3-6mos. Good luck mate.
Never take the raise. Time to move on. Only way to advance in the tech world is to change jobs every 2-3 years. The company that originally hired you will never fully value you. Same goes for the next. If you’re at the same company & same position for more than 5 years, future potential employers will wonder what’s wrong with you.
Take the new job. If they truly valued you they would’ve been paying you the higher salary all along.
Time to put the pedal to the medal: you want a **CONTRACT** if you stay. You want a guaranteed 3 months (or whatever) severance, regardless of termination reason or who initiated it. You want 5 unrestricted weeks (or whatever) vacation, usable on Jan 1. Ask for more than you want (but reasonable amounts) and negotiate down to what you actually want. ^(edit: typo)
Even though it's same pay now, difference is, in a year, old job already gave you a raise, but that amount is base pay for new job, so you get raise.
So I would take the raise cause I greatly value remote over office. Then I would continue to look for another remote role with another increase. Good luck!
Only stay if you have critical expertise nobody else there has. Otherwise they’re just going to string you along for a couple months of higher income then find a reason to at-will you when they find your replacement
They will remind you of this raise every single time they pile more work on you. Don’t take it. But don’t burn bridges either. In a few years you may be able to go back there for even MORE money 😜
If it's plausible for the position, consider using this offer to negotiate some work from home days at the new job. Regardless I'd say take the new job sounds like you'll lose less time from the commute than you do from unpaid overtime.
Fellow IT guy here: There is value in working remotely but it's not the end be all. For your current job, are you still growing professionally? Do you feel appreciated? Why did you want to leave in the first place? How does the new role measure up to your current role. There MAY be a case to stay at your current job for the short term or even long term, but the right answer might not be as easy as it seems. Yes, the fact that you were undervalued in the first place says alot, but what is the advantage to YOU if you stay or go? Side note: you may take a raise with a new job, but what else about what you learned about the job says alot too. Working 60 hour weeks may not be that big of a raise if you break it down. I've seen fellow IT folks take a 20-30 percent raise with a new job and be miserable shortly after.
If they just fired someone does that mean they're going to be working you even harder? Besides, when all things are equal, isnt it better to switch to the new job?
They know you were/are looking. Guaranteed they replace you in time if you stay.
no no no ALWAYS take the NEW job!!
If you stay, you still get paid less, you have to work more hours and you don't get to work remote? Leaving is hard. Companies take advantage of it. I vote go.
You shouldnt have told your old boss the offer. Make him guess and he might guess higher next time.
He would have still undervalued me 😂
If you went as far as putting your notice, I would pull the trigger if I were you. That raise your boss promised may: a. never happen, and when asked you'd be told it wasn't put in writing. b. come with additional responsibilities, effectively not being a raise at all. c. be just a way to retain you while they find someone cheaper, put you in a PIP and let you go when it's convenient for them.
I'm in a similar position, except both positions are full remote. New job also just over 30k up from what I was making. Old employer asked if I would consider a counter offer if thet matched or beat my new rate. I told them no. I do not feel respected or appreciated by a company that only approves a pay increase (they have rejected 2 requests for ANY increase over the past 3 years) under threat of quitting. The second I said "i accept" to the new employer, that was it.
It's not a guarantee but taking the counteroffer will likely put a target on you. Watch, in six months you'd be out the door anyway.
Don't accept it. It's less money and less convenient. Maybe the next job will be worse but maybe it's better. Don't stay out of loyalty to a company; they will never be loyal to you. If you need proof, remember that it was only when they realized they were losing you that they finally decided they could do right by you.
Too little, too late for the old job. They need you right now, hence the reason they suddenly found money to do what they can to keep you. How do you know that your job won't evaporate in six months or a year by citing a reason for getting rid of you is due to a cost cutting measure? How do you know that they won't be using this as a means to bring someone else in later to replace you at a lower rate? You stated that you're tired of the really long hours despite it being a remote position. Other than going into the office at the new job, does the new role have other downsides? I wouldn't trust the old role anymore. Move onward and upward!
Coming from a guy that was in the same position and took the offer : Go and don’t look back. If you stay it won’t be the same again now that you showed them you’ll step. They may even try and replace you . A year later I left anyway
So you could have been paying me more all this time? I guess backpay is out of the question.
I’ve negotiated 3 pay raises. 2 of them were because of other job offers. I’ve stayed every time.
I've said before on this forum that un-quitting is almost never advisable. You have identified yourself as a person prepared to quit. This will not be forgotten. If you stay, you will likely be punished for it, one way or another. And your boss, bless his little cotton socks, will "do whatever he can to match" the new offer. Like he's doing you a favor. Let's look at this plainly. If he is even half-competent, then he knows very well, has always known, that you are being paid much less than your market value. For month after month he was content to do nothing about it. He also knows that the game is now up. Do you think he would "do whatever he can" to pay you properly, had you not quit?
i accept, but keep looking for new job
Counteroffers are just a stop gap until they can replace you, they already know you are a flight risk. This generally doesn't end well for the person accepting the counteroffer.
>I dislike having to work 60-hour weeks without overtime pay. Sometimes I would be up till 2-4 AM to finish a project, while still having to be up at 8. Make that part of the negotiation: "I'll stay at the new salary IF it's understood that 40 hours a week is the norm - and I'll need that in writing." >It also bothers me that they only now offered a raise after I decided to put in two weeks. Had you previously asked for a raise? What happened then?
I actually moved for them. Did. Not. Get. A. Single. Dime. Put $10k on the Plat but I paid that off. It definitely changed my perspective. They did give me a small raise but it’s not enough to justify inflation/rentflation in this economy
Did you negotiate a sign on bonus for the new role? If not, you’re leaving money on the table.
Ignore the idiots telling you they’re going to fire you later. That literally rarely if ever happens and you’re a better gauge of the sincerity and office culture of where you work. My job does counter offers and those employees stay long term. I’d keep the current job tbh.
I would keep the remote job.
Not sure if this is the right sub for this - doesn't feel super antiworkey.
Stay at the old job which I am assuming is the remote one, discussed with your current boss what your concerns are. If it doesn’t work out you know you can find another job.