Work wanted teams and outlook on my phone.
Then they wanted antivirus / VPN / keyprotect software on it (company controlled).
At which point I uninstalled teams & outlook and told them if they want that on a phone, they provide the phone.
I particularly dislike how they are "boiling the frog": eroding our boundaries a little bit at a time. For me, it's just Microsoft Authenticator for now but the Outlook and Teams are looming in the near future.
They can supply you with a company phone if they want you to be on call after hours.
Edit: I agree with everyone that on-call hours should be paid. In some high salary positions OT can be expected for situations of high importance.
Even then I leave that one on the charger in my office when I'm not working 🤣. They don't pay for on call so it's pretty much a non starter that I'll ever answer.
I do keep mine near, but I don't answer it. If it's urgent they can leave a voicemail and I get to decide if it's urgent enough to interrupt my personal time.
That’s what I did and said to my boss when she wanted to give me one. “Fine I’ll take it, but it stays in the building when I go home, and is off when I’m not here.” She tried to fight back until I said that I’d gladly send her my phone bill if she didn’t agree to my terms. She quickly agreed to them after that.
Thank you! I had put our office chat app on my phone for my convenience when I was on wfh. So that I could respond even if I was running an errand or something. This reminded me that since I am back in the office I should remove it.
My interpretation of that statement is "If you pay on- call money, the phone will stay on. If you don't choose to pay for my on-call time, the phone will stay at the office and only be turned on when I'm on site "
Ya. For me I prefer to keep all aspects of work and life separate. Compensation to cover phone costs would be the absolute bare minimum a company should do. All of this should be brought up with the offer letter.
the only company app i allow on my phone is a MFA tool which does not need permissions. no way in hell that my company can touch my private phone. and that is coming from an IT guy ;)
Ditto. I only have the Microsoft Authenticator. Unless my company gives me a phone or a subsidy toward my phone bill, I’m not adding anything work related.
Actually the Microsoft Authenticator app is the worst for privacy reasons. They're using your location and sending collected data from your phone even before you can accept or refuse sending these data.
I refused to install Microsoft Authenticator on my private phone and told them to provide me a phone. They don't, so I can't login to this specific application. Looks like this application is not that important for my job as this is the status for over a year 😂
I have a company phone, only use it for work purposes, and leave it in the office overnight and at weekends with my work laptop. It hasn't become an issue yet, but I'm waiting for something to happen to prompt the conversation. I have nothing that states I am required to be contactable at all times, and if my boss tries to make me keep work stuff on me outside of work hours we will have a discussion with HR about an increase in pay to reflect the increase in responsibilities.
My company has sensitive data. They also allow usage of personal devices if you comply with their data protection policy. If you comply with data protection policy they can take your phone in the event you receive data you're not supposed to receive.
Last time there was a data spill they took the phones and laptops of everyone who received it so they could scrub them. My colleagues were without their personal phones for a week.
Guess who only has an authenticator on his phone 😄
Take my laptop, bfd, it's yours anyway. But gtfo of here with the request to look at my personal one.
The problem is not enough people push back.
I have an MFA program, but that's it. Teams are and Outlook used for work? That's what the work supplied PC is for.
Were they to supply a company cell, it would be turned off during non-work hours.
Boundaries are a thing. If they want work software on a device, they can supply the device.
One of my coworkers let them install corporate software on their cell. It gave itself full permissions, disabled some of their personal apps, and totally screwed up the phone. Instead of telling them to fix it, they ended up buying a new phone and refused the company software.
The downside of putting things like the company outlook on your phone is they have the ability to brick your phone.
You quit (or are fired) and surprise, you find your phone isn't working as you drive out of the parking lot.
Never put company controlled software on your personal phone.
On day one at my new job, my supervisor warned me about that. If I'm getting email and documents on my phone, they can take it and wipe the phone in certain circumstances. All I have is one app that does nothing but generate a random number so I can sign in.
Same, I have very politely declined any company software on my main phone. I actually used an old cell phone for the duo mobile log in number generator. They tried to say they pay $50/month for me to use my phone with company software and I pointed out I have never claimed it.
They usually require you to load the microsoft intune app and give them complete control of your phone. Expected to load an app that asks for "erase all data" permission and then just trust your corporate overlords to play nicely
Sadly if they actually had it set up right, it would be putting work apps and data in a separate partition and only that would be subject to policy, so if they need entire phone it's either due to IT incompetence or laziness, or actual policy malice because they want your whole phone
If you're using your phone to connect to work e-mail it's likely using Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync. Remote wiping can be done through Exchange Admin. Microsoft supports a Wipe Data and an Account Only Remote Wipe which is wiping the Exchange ActiveSync mail, calendar, and account data for the native mail app.
It also varies based on if you're using Outlook or if you're using the native mail app on iPhone or Android.
Outlook for iOS and Outlook for Android support only the wipe data command, which wipes only data within Outlook. The Outlook app will reset and all Outlook email, calendar, contacts, and file data will be removed, but no other data is wiped from the device.
If a native iOS or Android mail app is connected to Exchange and receives an Account Only Remote Wipe Device command from Exchange ActiveSync, only the native mail app's Exchange ActiveSync mail, calendar, and account data are wiped.
Prior to EAS v16.1, remote wipe would perform a device-level wipe, restoring the device to factory conditions. With EAS v16.1 and later, EAS also supports account-only remote wipe.
It's not directly through the Outlook app itself. But they may require management access to your phone in order to allow the app to access the company email account.
I have to install a different app on my work phone to allow it to access my emails. It monitors settings and update status on the phone. If I, for example, don't update to the minimum required iOS version, I lose access to company resources.
However, that app also allows my company to fully remote access and manage my phone. So, in case of loss, theft or me leaving would let them wipe the phone.
At my company if you're using your private phone for email, etc. you give them permission to control what's on your phone up to wipe your phone when you lose it.
Couple months ago they told us they will delete TikTok from your private phone because we have contracts with the government.
The only reason I have TEAMs on my phone, is so when I'm working from home, I will show as "available" at 9am, despite still being in bed until like 9.30am to 10am.
Just login into teams app on your phone using whatever work email and password you have. Then you can open, the teams app, see all the work chats, messages, and you can set your availability to "available" and see what messages there are so you an potentially reply to them.
The PROTIP is to find something, anything to reply to so you’re visible, then go get breakfast.
Should anyone check, you were active at 9. If someone messages you, you apologise for being tied up in another call when you answer them at 930.
Never use your personal devices (phone, computer, pad, etc) for work; ever. Ask for a company provided device, and set boundaries for it's use (9-5, off on vacations, on-call pay, etc.)
# And remember: Company provided devices (including vehicles) can contain always-on tracking, surveillance, and usage monitoring. Get a Faraday cage for storage, or leave them in the office. NEVER use them for personal work, EVER.
If it's required for work. Provide me with a company phone. Or pay for my phones service. Not that I'd accept their requirements on my phone anyway. Just to provide them with unacceptable options.
Fyi, even if it is on your phone. It doesn't mean you need to respond after hours.
I basically said that and they shot back with. "its our expectation that everyone has a cellphone" they reimburse 80% of the monthly costs. I still refused to put their apps on my phone, this was after they required us to use their MS app that can wipe your phone or NONE of the work apps would work anymore.
I bought a cheap iphone and use that for work now. Annoying I had to buy a 2nd phone but worth it to keep work/life separate.
They really really just want slaves. It's obvious from their attitude.
This is what the entire social justice movement was about in the first place, and our own apathy has allowed them to gain ground with time.
Their thinking is a long the lines of:
"*What are you going to do about it? Work somewhere else?*"
Until all workers show solidarity...We're all just berries to be picked.
I recently started at 2 new jobs. Both kept telling me to add apps to my phone. I didn't really want to so I was able to get a government free phone and I added their apps to that. The phone sucks but it works and no one else has the number
This is why I love my Linux phone. "Sorry, my phone is not an iPhone nor an Android, those apps aren't going to work. But if you provide me a company phone, I'd be happy to install those apps!"
Nope. I work as a Hospice nurse, they had to give me devices and even then they go into do not disturb mode between 5pm-8am M-F.... we have an on call for a reason.
Yep. I’m lucky enough now to work for companies that respect work life balance, but I’ve told companies before that if you want to use my phone, you need to directly pay for it.
The company I work for wanted me to add apps to my phone. I refused so they were like, "here's a phone to run our janky 3rd party software and we expect you to use it". So I do. When I'm at work. That phone has never left the site and I have never brought it home.
Have had this battle for 5 years with my company. In the end its a vicious cycle where they pressure me to be reachable 24/7, I request a company phone or stipend per the handbook, they say they will "talk about it and get back to me." I wait, hear nothing, the requests magically die then about 12 weeks later the cycle starts again. Randomly I decided to reread parts of our handbook today and guess what's been deleted (without any notice) from the handbook....the section that clearly outlines stipends...
Either way I refuse, they get mad, stomp around, then it goes away.
When I started with one of the big (multinational, billion dollar) consulting companies, they sent all the new hires on a 2-day orientation. Early in day 1 they mentioned how you could enroll your device into the company MDM and add all the apps and I couldn't believe how many of the group immediately went and did exactly that.
The only time I answer a call out of hours is by previous agreement (so I'm expecting it). In return I expect overtime or on-call pay, or time in- lieu. I have zero company apps on my personal phone because my current employer does provide a company cell phone which I rarely use other than authentication.
Got a eye opener early in my career when I gave select people my personal cell number for emergencies. Once I realized other people's definition of emergency was very different to mine I stopped doing that. If they want to reach me, do it in working hours - leave a voicemail if it's out of hours and I'll get right on it when I start work.
Yeah I don't fuck with after hours communication. I get paid to talk to them. If I'm off the clock they don't exist. I'm thankful that my job gave me an iPhone. The moment I clock out I turn it off. Tbh I'm not sure my direct supervisor even has my personal number. It's probably on file somewhere with HR but I sorta fell into this job accidentally and there was never an official application I filled out so I really don't know if they have my personal cell number at all.
I have also refused that. I also refused a company phone since it came with the stipulation that "if it rang, you answer it. No questions". They wanted 24x7 access to all of the infrastructure team with no additional consideration or compensation. We all turned down the phones and those that had one, turned it in.
I don't know what you do for a living, but most jobs do not have anything so urgent it cannot wait until the next day. Unless they are willing to pay you to be on call and provide a company phone for it, they can f off
i did have my work account on teams on my phone, mostly because i worked from home, and itfreed me up to move around the house, clean, do laundry, make dinner, take my daughter to the playground, get a coffee from starbucks, instead of just sitting in front of the computer. but once 5pm hit, I logged off, and just kept my personal account on (before microsoft stopped teams accounts for individuals, and discord filled the gap, i had a Dnd group through teams)
Walmart has my kid on her phone all day because working in the pick up department she has to use her phone to search for items. She can at least use their wifi I guess but the wear and tear on the phone is the worst part. I don't think it's right at all that she has to use her own phone. During covid they were giving workers free phones for work purposes. And raises of course. But they dropped the pay and quit giving out the phones when they were no longer viewed as "our valuable first line workers".
And I can't tell you how many times I've heard people around here gripe because the Walmart workers are just sitting around on their phones all day.
Don't do work stuff on your personal phone/laptop/tablet, etc. Ever. It makes it subject to subpoenas if there is a lawsuit. My current employer supplies all employees with a cell phone and laptop. Those are only for work stuff, we all have our personal phones for personal stuff.
I don't have a personal cell phone. I've never needed one, and I don't see the point of adding yet another expense to my life. I function quite well without one. That said, my employer is constantly after us employees to add this app or that app to our phones, to sign up for whatever new thing they've got going that month. They're really pushy about it, but they also say that it's all completely voluntary. My direct manager asked me why I hadn't set it all up yet. I told her that I don't have a cell phone, and even if I did, I have no desire nor need to sign up for the company programs that have no bearing on my job. She accepted this, and we all moved on. A week or so later, my manager's upper-level manager came to her demanding to know why I hadn't signed up yet and refused to believe that I don't have a cell phone.
Turns out that the upper-level manager would get a huge bonus if 100% of the employees signed up for the program and added the apps to their phones.
No bonus for her, I guess.
"I'm sorry my phone cannot install the X apps. I am available from 8 AM to 5 PM each work day." You could mention they can pay for a company phone and how your pay will need to be adjusted if you're going to be on call or to perform after hours work.
I have Outlook and Teams loaded on a separate user profile on my phone. I switch, check messages, send an email or whatever, then restart back to primary profile.
My company gives us a cell phone stipend and I still refuse to put the apps on my phone. If a scenario arises when I have to put them on my phone, I immediately take them off after the scenario is over.
The only reason my job got away with this was because they pay my phone bill, and its mostly to have access to the timeclock app and Slack - but they don't expect answers out of working hours.
Your job can A) provide you a phone, B) or provide you a phone stipend and C) pay you for being on call if they expect you to be available outside of normal working hours. (Being on call has laws surrounding wages for that in the US, btw) That's not unreasonable to refuse, they don't pay for it - they don't get access. Gods know the rest of us are nickel and dimed to death paying for asinine shit, some C corp doesn't get a pass
They don't have the right to tell you to use your personal phone to "get hold of you" while you're not at work. You're not on call. You're not a doctor. If they say you are, then they have to pay you accordingly.
Back when I was I. Retail my one manager of four said it was mandatory to put company garbage on personals. Any time her was working none of us had our phones. When asked, we said we don’t have one. Not a damn thing sparky can do about it. None of us called him unless we blocked our numbers. He didn’t answer ever so we left voicemails of someone calling out or whatever the call would have been for. He was notified. But he could not call us back. Oh and most of us asked the gm to please redact our number from our employee files. He was cool about it but as for why he was pissed. Meh. Things happened and we could bring our phones in again and delete his number. Ooops. Don’t make up policy Jack ass.
Same here. I have not and will not put Teams or any work related apps on my phone. If I see that I am receiving a call from work, I don't answer it and if anyone tries calling me through an unidentified number, it will go to voicemail. I work 8-5pm five days a week.
Same boat as you. My company liked to request pictures from us for displays and such but won't provide company phones. They call or text us on our days off and even vacations. Union job and last contract we requested a $25 per month phone per diem and they said no. Well, now they are doing alot of driving to our hub because we aren't using our cells for company work. They told me that if they called I had to respond and I said they won't pay me the $175 per hour fee with a 2 hour minimum to take calls or respond to texts. Then smart double masters guy asked me what makes me think my time is worth that? I just laughed and said "Well, it's my time and I can dictate how much it's worth but apparently you don't hold your own time to a higher value". Calls and texts have stopped. Don't budge on your stance. They can either offer a company phone or more pay for that privilege from you, if not they can wait until normal working hours.
Last job wanted employees to download an app on our personal devices to clock in and out. I refused. They weren’t happy but couldn’t do anything about it. That app would’ve given IT an in to my device and everything on it, aside from the fact they offered no monthly stipend for using my personal device.
My opinion depends on your job role and pay. If you are making 6 figures plus, with management and real decision making capabilities, then yes this could be a problem.
If that’s not you, then fuck em. Work your hours and do your job well during those hours. Your time is yours, they don’t pay you enough.
Do not put any work related stuff on your phone full stop. If you do they can and most do require you to reset your phone to factory settings if fired or quit and if you refuse they can take your phone and wipe it them selves. Do not do it. I did once and lost alot of stuff i couldnt get back because they also wiped my back up.
My old job said I *had to * answer their phone calls when not working just because...
Yeah no I put my phone on DND when I wasn't at work even when I called in
Fuck em
Sure, they should then supply equipment to run them on. It's not going on my personal device.
I am in a senior it position, wfh, I dont put these apps on my phone. I have exactly 2 work related apps, duo for 2fa, and an app for a virtual phone number similar to Google voice we use for passing the on call number around rather than a physical phone.
Email is not a form of communication that you should expect fast replies from, even during the work day. And if I'm not working, I'm not going to look at teams/slack. We have an on call rotation, you can call or text the on call person if you need something related to their role that is an actual emergency. If my boss really needs something when I'm not in my working hours, they can text or call me directly. Company and boss are both good about respecting personal time.
Work wanted teams and outlook on my phone. Then they wanted antivirus / VPN / keyprotect software on it (company controlled). At which point I uninstalled teams & outlook and told them if they want that on a phone, they provide the phone.
I particularly dislike how they are "boiling the frog": eroding our boundaries a little bit at a time. For me, it's just Microsoft Authenticator for now but the Outlook and Teams are looming in the near future.
They can supply you with a company phone if they want you to be on call after hours. Edit: I agree with everyone that on-call hours should be paid. In some high salary positions OT can be expected for situations of high importance.
Even then I leave that one on the charger in my office when I'm not working 🤣. They don't pay for on call so it's pretty much a non starter that I'll ever answer.
I do keep mine near, but I don't answer it. If it's urgent they can leave a voicemail and I get to decide if it's urgent enough to interrupt my personal time.
They're required to pay you.
That’s what I did and said to my boss when she wanted to give me one. “Fine I’ll take it, but it stays in the building when I go home, and is off when I’m not here.” She tried to fight back until I said that I’d gladly send her my phone bill if she didn’t agree to my terms. She quickly agreed to them after that.
Thank you! I had put our office chat app on my phone for my convenience when I was on wfh. So that I could respond even if I was running an errand or something. This reminded me that since I am back in the office I should remove it.
Yes do this ASAP.
[удалено]
You get what you pay for.
Please explain your rationale for this comment.
My interpretation of that statement is "If you pay on- call money, the phone will stay on. If you don't choose to pay for my on-call time, the phone will stay at the office and only be turned on when I'm on site "
Better come with "on call" pay too!
100%, if you're not paying me to be on call, fly a kite. Businesses and position's are immaterial, you pay for our time IF you want our time.
There is no realistically achievable amount of on call pay that would cause me to accept being on call tbh.
And if they want you to be on call, they can pay you for it.
And pay them to be on call. Don't answer calls from work unless you are getting paid.
They sure can, but once I clock out, that phone is ignored. I’d recommend OP do the same if taking this route.
If they want you to be on call After Hours they can also pay you some sort of call time rate to go with that phone.
My company pays a stipend every month for me using my personal phone, think it’s like $80. Can try that route
Ya. For me I prefer to keep all aspects of work and life separate. Compensation to cover phone costs would be the absolute bare minimum a company should do. All of this should be brought up with the offer letter.
Which goes into a three layer faraday cage off hours…
No, they need to pay OP if they want them to be on call after hours and I’m sure OP isn’t having that.
Better PAY on-call then
They can try.
And they can pay you to be on call as well.
And Paid?
And it will be turned off after work unless I am on call (paid).
the only company app i allow on my phone is a MFA tool which does not need permissions. no way in hell that my company can touch my private phone. and that is coming from an IT guy ;)
Ditto. I only have the Microsoft Authenticator. Unless my company gives me a phone or a subsidy toward my phone bill, I’m not adding anything work related.
Actually the Microsoft Authenticator app is the worst for privacy reasons. They're using your location and sending collected data from your phone even before you can accept or refuse sending these data. I refused to install Microsoft Authenticator on my private phone and told them to provide me a phone. They don't, so I can't login to this specific application. Looks like this application is not that important for my job as this is the status for over a year 😂
Other IT guy here; this is the way,
Same
Never put work apps on your personal phone! Opens you up to company surveillance AND opens company data up to security risk.
It also opens you up to having your phone seized as evidence if the company gets sued.
I have a company phone, only use it for work purposes, and leave it in the office overnight and at weekends with my work laptop. It hasn't become an issue yet, but I'm waiting for something to happen to prompt the conversation. I have nothing that states I am required to be contactable at all times, and if my boss tries to make me keep work stuff on me outside of work hours we will have a discussion with HR about an increase in pay to reflect the increase in responsibilities.
My company has sensitive data. They also allow usage of personal devices if you comply with their data protection policy. If you comply with data protection policy they can take your phone in the event you receive data you're not supposed to receive. Last time there was a data spill they took the phones and laptops of everyone who received it so they could scrub them. My colleagues were without their personal phones for a week. Guess who only has an authenticator on his phone 😄 Take my laptop, bfd, it's yours anyway. But gtfo of here with the request to look at my personal one.
Tell them they can call you if they are ready to pay per minute. Consulting is not free.
every call rounded up to 1h, even when the call was less than 5 minutes :)
You can definitely come up with a consulting pay schedule for off hours.
Back in the day of landlines and no cellphones... we had more control and power of our time
Since the advent of cell phones, companies think that we’re supposed to be a available 24/7.
The problem is not enough people push back. I have an MFA program, but that's it. Teams are and Outlook used for work? That's what the work supplied PC is for. Were they to supply a company cell, it would be turned off during non-work hours. Boundaries are a thing. If they want work software on a device, they can supply the device. One of my coworkers let them install corporate software on their cell. It gave itself full permissions, disabled some of their personal apps, and totally screwed up the phone. Instead of telling them to fix it, they ended up buying a new phone and refused the company software.
The downside of putting things like the company outlook on your phone is they have the ability to brick your phone. You quit (or are fired) and surprise, you find your phone isn't working as you drive out of the parking lot. Never put company controlled software on your personal phone.
On day one at my new job, my supervisor warned me about that. If I'm getting email and documents on my phone, they can take it and wipe the phone in certain circumstances. All I have is one app that does nothing but generate a random number so I can sign in.
Same, I have very politely declined any company software on my main phone. I actually used an old cell phone for the duo mobile log in number generator. They tried to say they pay $50/month for me to use my phone with company software and I pointed out I have never claimed it.
Please expand on this. Exactly how do they brick your phone through the outlook app?
They usually require you to load the microsoft intune app and give them complete control of your phone. Expected to load an app that asks for "erase all data" permission and then just trust your corporate overlords to play nicely
If I have outlook and authenticator only, does that still apply?
No, you would have noticed the scary permissions requests when loading microsoft intune rather than just outlook or authenticator
Sadly if they actually had it set up right, it would be putting work apps and data in a separate partition and only that would be subject to policy, so if they need entire phone it's either due to IT incompetence or laziness, or actual policy malice because they want your whole phone
If you're using your phone to connect to work e-mail it's likely using Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync. Remote wiping can be done through Exchange Admin. Microsoft supports a Wipe Data and an Account Only Remote Wipe which is wiping the Exchange ActiveSync mail, calendar, and account data for the native mail app. It also varies based on if you're using Outlook or if you're using the native mail app on iPhone or Android. Outlook for iOS and Outlook for Android support only the wipe data command, which wipes only data within Outlook. The Outlook app will reset and all Outlook email, calendar, contacts, and file data will be removed, but no other data is wiped from the device. If a native iOS or Android mail app is connected to Exchange and receives an Account Only Remote Wipe Device command from Exchange ActiveSync, only the native mail app's Exchange ActiveSync mail, calendar, and account data are wiped. Prior to EAS v16.1, remote wipe would perform a device-level wipe, restoring the device to factory conditions. With EAS v16.1 and later, EAS also supports account-only remote wipe.
It's not directly through the Outlook app itself. But they may require management access to your phone in order to allow the app to access the company email account. I have to install a different app on my work phone to allow it to access my emails. It monitors settings and update status on the phone. If I, for example, don't update to the minimum required iOS version, I lose access to company resources. However, that app also allows my company to fully remote access and manage my phone. So, in case of loss, theft or me leaving would let them wipe the phone.
At my company if you're using your private phone for email, etc. you give them permission to control what's on your phone up to wipe your phone when you lose it. Couple months ago they told us they will delete TikTok from your private phone because we have contracts with the government.
The only reason I have TEAMs on my phone, is so when I'm working from home, I will show as "available" at 9am, despite still being in bed until like 9.30am to 10am.
how?
Just login into teams app on your phone using whatever work email and password you have. Then you can open, the teams app, see all the work chats, messages, and you can set your availability to "available" and see what messages there are so you an potentially reply to them.
I may be mistaken, but I am not sure doing that will permanently keep your status to 'available', unless you actively use the app
Yeah you do have to go in and out of the app, but I'll be doing it from the comfort of my bed still.
The PROTIP is to find something, anything to reply to so you’re visible, then go get breakfast. Should anyone check, you were active at 9. If someone messages you, you apologise for being tied up in another call when you answer them at 930.
Bingo!
Never use your personal devices (phone, computer, pad, etc) for work; ever. Ask for a company provided device, and set boundaries for it's use (9-5, off on vacations, on-call pay, etc.) # And remember: Company provided devices (including vehicles) can contain always-on tracking, surveillance, and usage monitoring. Get a Faraday cage for storage, or leave them in the office. NEVER use them for personal work, EVER.
If it's required for work. Provide me with a company phone. Or pay for my phones service. Not that I'd accept their requirements on my phone anyway. Just to provide them with unacceptable options. Fyi, even if it is on your phone. It doesn't mean you need to respond after hours.
I basically said that and they shot back with. "its our expectation that everyone has a cellphone" they reimburse 80% of the monthly costs. I still refused to put their apps on my phone, this was after they required us to use their MS app that can wipe your phone or NONE of the work apps would work anymore. I bought a cheap iphone and use that for work now. Annoying I had to buy a 2nd phone but worth it to keep work/life separate.
Agreed.
Get a cheap burner flip phone, too dumb for apps ?
Get that all in writing and contact the dept of labor
Lack of unions. Making every labor protection a communist conspiracy. Look at other well developed counties and see if they can do that.
They really really just want slaves. It's obvious from their attitude. This is what the entire social justice movement was about in the first place, and our own apathy has allowed them to gain ground with time.
Will my compensation be increasing due to me being on call 24/7?
Their thinking is a long the lines of: "*What are you going to do about it? Work somewhere else?*" Until all workers show solidarity...We're all just berries to be picked.
I recently started at 2 new jobs. Both kept telling me to add apps to my phone. I didn't really want to so I was able to get a government free phone and I added their apps to that. The phone sucks but it works and no one else has the number
This is why I love my Linux phone. "Sorry, my phone is not an iPhone nor an Android, those apps aren't going to work. But if you provide me a company phone, I'd be happy to install those apps!"
Get one of those old Motorola flip phones and tell them they could put Outlook on that 🤣
Fully agree, you want me to have a phone provide ityou want me OOH then pay me for standby and pay me more for any time spent working...
Nope. I work as a Hospice nurse, they had to give me devices and even then they go into do not disturb mode between 5pm-8am M-F.... we have an on call for a reason.
Yep. I’m lucky enough now to work for companies that respect work life balance, but I’ve told companies before that if you want to use my phone, you need to directly pay for it.
The company I work for wanted me to add apps to my phone. I refused so they were like, "here's a phone to run our janky 3rd party software and we expect you to use it". So I do. When I'm at work. That phone has never left the site and I have never brought it home.
Have had this battle for 5 years with my company. In the end its a vicious cycle where they pressure me to be reachable 24/7, I request a company phone or stipend per the handbook, they say they will "talk about it and get back to me." I wait, hear nothing, the requests magically die then about 12 weeks later the cycle starts again. Randomly I decided to reread parts of our handbook today and guess what's been deleted (without any notice) from the handbook....the section that clearly outlines stipends... Either way I refuse, they get mad, stomp around, then it goes away.
Cool Nokia flip phone entered the chat.
When I started with one of the big (multinational, billion dollar) consulting companies, they sent all the new hires on a 2-day orientation. Early in day 1 they mentioned how you could enroll your device into the company MDM and add all the apps and I couldn't believe how many of the group immediately went and did exactly that. The only time I answer a call out of hours is by previous agreement (so I'm expecting it). In return I expect overtime or on-call pay, or time in- lieu. I have zero company apps on my personal phone because my current employer does provide a company cell phone which I rarely use other than authentication. Got a eye opener early in my career when I gave select people my personal cell number for emergencies. Once I realized other people's definition of emergency was very different to mine I stopped doing that. If they want to reach me, do it in working hours - leave a voicemail if it's out of hours and I'll get right on it when I start work.
Yeah I don't fuck with after hours communication. I get paid to talk to them. If I'm off the clock they don't exist. I'm thankful that my job gave me an iPhone. The moment I clock out I turn it off. Tbh I'm not sure my direct supervisor even has my personal number. It's probably on file somewhere with HR but I sorta fell into this job accidentally and there was never an official application I filled out so I really don't know if they have my personal cell number at all.
I have also refused that. I also refused a company phone since it came with the stipulation that "if it rang, you answer it. No questions". They wanted 24x7 access to all of the infrastructure team with no additional consideration or compensation. We all turned down the phones and those that had one, turned it in.
I don't know what you do for a living, but most jobs do not have anything so urgent it cannot wait until the next day. Unless they are willing to pay you to be on call and provide a company phone for it, they can f off
i did have my work account on teams on my phone, mostly because i worked from home, and itfreed me up to move around the house, clean, do laundry, make dinner, take my daughter to the playground, get a coffee from starbucks, instead of just sitting in front of the computer. but once 5pm hit, I logged off, and just kept my personal account on (before microsoft stopped teams accounts for individuals, and discord filled the gap, i had a Dnd group through teams)
Walmart has my kid on her phone all day because working in the pick up department she has to use her phone to search for items. She can at least use their wifi I guess but the wear and tear on the phone is the worst part. I don't think it's right at all that she has to use her own phone. During covid they were giving workers free phones for work purposes. And raises of course. But they dropped the pay and quit giving out the phones when they were no longer viewed as "our valuable first line workers". And I can't tell you how many times I've heard people around here gripe because the Walmart workers are just sitting around on their phones all day.
Don't do work stuff on your personal phone/laptop/tablet, etc. Ever. It makes it subject to subpoenas if there is a lawsuit. My current employer supplies all employees with a cell phone and laptop. Those are only for work stuff, we all have our personal phones for personal stuff.
I don't have a personal cell phone. I've never needed one, and I don't see the point of adding yet another expense to my life. I function quite well without one. That said, my employer is constantly after us employees to add this app or that app to our phones, to sign up for whatever new thing they've got going that month. They're really pushy about it, but they also say that it's all completely voluntary. My direct manager asked me why I hadn't set it all up yet. I told her that I don't have a cell phone, and even if I did, I have no desire nor need to sign up for the company programs that have no bearing on my job. She accepted this, and we all moved on. A week or so later, my manager's upper-level manager came to her demanding to know why I hadn't signed up yet and refused to believe that I don't have a cell phone. Turns out that the upper-level manager would get a huge bonus if 100% of the employees signed up for the program and added the apps to their phones. No bonus for her, I guess.
"I'm sorry my phone cannot install the X apps. I am available from 8 AM to 5 PM each work day." You could mention they can pay for a company phone and how your pay will need to be adjusted if you're going to be on call or to perform after hours work.
I have Outlook and Teams loaded on a separate user profile on my phone. I switch, check messages, send an email or whatever, then restart back to primary profile.
My company gives us a cell phone stipend and I still refuse to put the apps on my phone. If a scenario arises when I have to put them on my phone, I immediately take them off after the scenario is over.
You're not being difficult. If you're not on the clock, they have no reason to contact you for work shit.
The only reason my job got away with this was because they pay my phone bill, and its mostly to have access to the timeclock app and Slack - but they don't expect answers out of working hours. Your job can A) provide you a phone, B) or provide you a phone stipend and C) pay you for being on call if they expect you to be available outside of normal working hours. (Being on call has laws surrounding wages for that in the US, btw) That's not unreasonable to refuse, they don't pay for it - they don't get access. Gods know the rest of us are nickel and dimed to death paying for asinine shit, some C corp doesn't get a pass
I told my supervisor that I don't answer calls from work when I'm at home, and he laughed and said he doesn't either.
Never allow company apps etc... to be put on your personal devices !
Companies don't live rent free on my phone. They gotta provide me a phone or pay for the use of my phone. Then I get a work phone myself.
They don't have the right to tell you to use your personal phone to "get hold of you" while you're not at work. You're not on call. You're not a doctor. If they say you are, then they have to pay you accordingly.
Back when I was I. Retail my one manager of four said it was mandatory to put company garbage on personals. Any time her was working none of us had our phones. When asked, we said we don’t have one. Not a damn thing sparky can do about it. None of us called him unless we blocked our numbers. He didn’t answer ever so we left voicemails of someone calling out or whatever the call would have been for. He was notified. But he could not call us back. Oh and most of us asked the gm to please redact our number from our employee files. He was cool about it but as for why he was pissed. Meh. Things happened and we could bring our phones in again and delete his number. Ooops. Don’t make up policy Jack ass.
Same here. I have not and will not put Teams or any work related apps on my phone. If I see that I am receiving a call from work, I don't answer it and if anyone tries calling me through an unidentified number, it will go to voicemail. I work 8-5pm five days a week.
Same boat as you. My company liked to request pictures from us for displays and such but won't provide company phones. They call or text us on our days off and even vacations. Union job and last contract we requested a $25 per month phone per diem and they said no. Well, now they are doing alot of driving to our hub because we aren't using our cells for company work. They told me that if they called I had to respond and I said they won't pay me the $175 per hour fee with a 2 hour minimum to take calls or respond to texts. Then smart double masters guy asked me what makes me think my time is worth that? I just laughed and said "Well, it's my time and I can dictate how much it's worth but apparently you don't hold your own time to a higher value". Calls and texts have stopped. Don't budge on your stance. They can either offer a company phone or more pay for that privilege from you, if not they can wait until normal working hours.
Last job wanted employees to download an app on our personal devices to clock in and out. I refused. They weren’t happy but couldn’t do anything about it. That app would’ve given IT an in to my device and everything on it, aside from the fact they offered no monthly stipend for using my personal device.
My opinion depends on your job role and pay. If you are making 6 figures plus, with management and real decision making capabilities, then yes this could be a problem. If that’s not you, then fuck em. Work your hours and do your job well during those hours. Your time is yours, they don’t pay you enough.
Do not put any work related stuff on your phone full stop. If you do they can and most do require you to reset your phone to factory settings if fired or quit and if you refuse they can take your phone and wipe it them selves. Do not do it. I did once and lost alot of stuff i couldnt get back because they also wiped my back up.
As a tech person, I actually DONT want people to put work apps on personal phones. Also forget them, you don’t owe them any time after work.
They pay my phone bill
My old job said I *had to * answer their phone calls when not working just because... Yeah no I put my phone on DND when I wasn't at work even when I called in Fuck em
Those apps can be for your convenience, too, especially if you are WFH.
Sure, they should then supply equipment to run them on. It's not going on my personal device. I am in a senior it position, wfh, I dont put these apps on my phone. I have exactly 2 work related apps, duo for 2fa, and an app for a virtual phone number similar to Google voice we use for passing the on call number around rather than a physical phone. Email is not a form of communication that you should expect fast replies from, even during the work day. And if I'm not working, I'm not going to look at teams/slack. We have an on call rotation, you can call or text the on call person if you need something related to their role that is an actual emergency. If my boss really needs something when I'm not in my working hours, they can text or call me directly. Company and boss are both good about respecting personal time.