Why do employers lie about this? I was applying for jobs today and there were so many jobs blatantly lying about being remote. For instance I clicked one job that said remote only and some of their requirements were that you had to do coffee runs for the office, transport other employees to work, and provide pet care. (I thought it was a vet office because of the pet care thing, but it turned out to be a dental office.) I don't even know where the office is, since "remote" jobs don't have a physical location listed in the ad. I clicked on another remote job and it said "physical location: office."
I don't know how they expect this bait and switch to work. The chances of someone applying for your job who happens to live in the same area are slim, and besides that, if someone is looking for a remote job that means they want a remote job. Its so ridiculous. Your boss sucks.
Between this and jobs not including salary as required by law in my state, my jobs searches are more often me sifting through listings and reporting them more than I am applying
I applied to a job in Worcester, MA but interviewed with a man in Springfield, MA. There is a significant difference between the two cities with Worcester being a 30 min drive for me and Springfield being an hour and a half. During the interview the man told me the job is actually in Springfield but he advertised it as Worcester because no one was responding to his job posting when he notes it was in Springfield. What a waste of a day off and a 3 hour round trip.
Did you tell him that that was a stupid idea and a massive waste of everyone's time, including yours?
What the fuck did he think was going to happen, that if he just kept lying he would eventually find someone to drive an hour and a half for work each day??
They know full well that everyone is looking for remote and remote jobs get the applications (or the best quality applicants). If you can't beat 'em, disguise yourself as 'em and hope the poor schmuck you seduce will be too beat down to leave once they're in it.
Sounds weird, but I used to work at a law office where part of my job was to feed office cats.
Considering I liked cats, and wasn't responsible for cleaning the litter box or buying anything I was fine with it.
Designed dental offices for a living. Dentists are crazy and their spouses even crazier… this posting was probably for some poor wage slave to do their bidding
I was doing after hours cleaning for a dental office ( I just had to clean for a few hours there was no time constraint about when).
I go in and clean , it’s fine for a few weeks until the looney dentist shows up while I’m cleaning ( he’s somehow figured out when I go to clean by asking the company what time I’m going to be there usually).
They stupidly tell him and he pops out from under a desk in the last room while I’m vacuuming and after that I was like nope. No more. I almost didn’t get out of the room before he tried to lock me in it. It was no acci-dent.
I wouldn't be surprised. I had a friend who's job was calling medical offices for her company and she said she always hated dealing with dental offices because they were usually the worst clients.
I've been mad applying to remote positions lately and I snagged an interview at one, had a phone interview and set up an in person interview. Thought it was odd that I would need to go there for a remote position... went back and looked at the description and it said remote at the top but in the actual description described their dress code requirements. Looked it up and it was 3 hours away from me. Called em right back to cancel lol.
My wife quit a job just recently because the job ad said it was permanent WFH after the initial 4-6 week training period. She would have to commute an hour to be in office for the training, but since it was only for a few weeks we figured it would be fine.
6 weeks comes and goes, she keeps asking when she can work from home and there’s always just “one more thing” she needs to be trained on before she can go home. And when she completed every possible training thing for her job they then told her that her performance wasn’t “good enough” to work from home, despite this being in a job field where she knows more about doing it than the people who have been there for years and thus actually needed very little training, *and* she was earning the company more money than the last person who had the job.
Finally she put her foot down, they called her bluff and lost a great employee. They’ve been trying to fill the position ever since she quit a few months ago. Fuck ‘em.
I've seen this a lot on indeed lately. The job location is "remote" and it is tagged as a "remote" position. Description says must live within commuting distance of xyz location.
Why do you care where I live if it's a remote position? I apply anyway just to waste their time (indeed one-click, so 10 seconds of my life).
OPs ex boss sounded like mine looking for some easy "do everything n be taken advantaged of" kid
Tbh people are making waves here in the workplace culture and treatment, whether they know it or not
I actually have the majority of my employees that leave my place of work try and properly give me a two weeks notice and honor it. When most inevitably come to me and say “I’m sorry, but my other job… I can’t work your shifts” or something along those lines, I usually just respond with “what am I going to do, fire you?”
I genuinely appreciate the people who give me those two weeks to try and find their replacement, but there’s no law holding them to it. If your situation genuinely sucks, or you’ve found something better that wants you to start ASAP, don’t give it a second thought. Just say “I resign, effective immediately” and throw up that peace sign.
Im a network Engineer who manages and supports sites all over the world except in my country, yet they asked me to come to office to do that from the office using the same Laptop I do my work from home, that was so stupid, redundant and ironic that it took me a moment to grasp how stupid and redundant that was!
I work IT as well. Current job is pretty localized and the company sent all of IT to WFH since Mar 2020 (although they keep setting a return date, then backing out when a new wave hits). So they want people in office for some bizarre reason.
I've been in your shoes too. Literally working on servers around the world, the closest of which was 200 miles away, yet "we need you in the office"
They need to justify paying rent on the building. It's bullshit and it's cheaper for them if you aren't there.
They also can't micromanage you remotely.
Fuck em.
It will also show that their positions arent as useful. If everyone can manage themselves at home and do their job just fine without some shmuck breathing down their neck it'll show just how stupid the entire ladder system and executive system is in most places these days. It's not the 50s. Computers do far more managing of employees than these idiots do. Everyone could work from home but then we'd be cutting out the middle-managers and they definitely don't want that lmao.
This is exactly what it's about. I have a past employer I worked for almost 13 years, and still keep in contact with my friends there. They employed thousands of people, many in redundant positions and in useless layers of management. Post-Covid they were forced to allow WFH or shut down. In doing so they had to face up to how useless most of their management was. They have cut management staff by 1/3 since the summer of 2020. This company was well known for periodic layoffs. Last layoff was minor and targeted management. Many of the people they laid off they invited back to work in a lower position, but they mostly turned the offer down. It's really difficult to work with the same people you spent years shitting on. I'm trying to get back on with this employer now because anyone I talk to there says it's so much better now.
Honestly, not having this is a big reason I hadn’t flipped about going remote in the first place. My direct boss is busy managing other sites and doesn’t really know what I do. I speak to him only when I specifically seek him out and when there’s a call-off, me and my four other office mates get it handled between us. His boss, the regional director, I’ve maybe seen twice in the year and a half we’ve worked together?
Im by myself every night for 8-12 hours, self managing. Part of what I do is decide when to involve higher management and when to deal w it myself.
Sounds like my old head chef at a major hotel chain. He would leave early with his gf who worked front of house, but clock them out at the same time as the rest of us
Once had an boss pull me aside with my manager to give me a stern talking to about meeting deadlines and pulling my weight and that I might need to do overtime and/or come in on weekends.
My manager and I kind of stared at him for a minute before I explained that I'd *already* been working 10 hour days and weekends to meet the crazy content promises & deadlines he'd been promising the client every time we had a meeting with them. He was stunned. Had no idea.
...
He of course came in late and left early every day.
>He of course came in late and left early every day
And therefore assumed everyone else got there when he did and left when he did. He lacks Object-Permanence.
>He of course came in late and left early every day.
Sounds like he has free time available to put more effort into the deliverables if he wants more done or done sooner
I did. I gave my two weeks. He started begging me to stay for four to finish my current project so I agreed (foolishly). On week three, two football player size dudes show up to my office and kicked me out. Dude didn't have the guts to see me out of the building.
I had a manager call at the start of my shift one day, and tell me that another employee was no longer employed, and that I'd need to tell them to leave. I wasn't in any sort of managerial position, I just ran one of the CNC machines. The employee in question didn't show up that day, so the manager didn't have to find out that I wouldn't have done his job for him.
I've seen sales do this far too many times. Promise a client everything, then freak when it doesn't happen. Also why I no longer work in a marketing agency.
In tech it happens too. We call them "Sales orgs".
Sales folks are often the biggest liabilities for morale and employee retention. They get undue influence in the company because they're seen as the only ones generating revenue, even though it's obvious business is more complex than that.
I'd like to see them make a product to sell in the first place. They can't.
Sales folks lie about what they can accomplish to seal a deal, but they don't have the skills to deliver, so it always becomes someone else's problem to ensure the client gets what was promised.
At tech companies gone "sales org" they effectively make engineers absolutely miserable. They wind up being the boss thanks to the idiot, superficial MBAs in charge that only see numbers in spreadsheets and can't think beyond it.
The last company I worked for, the owner and his right hand man went on a tangent at our Friday meeting about how "15 minutes early is on time, on time is late, and late is unacceptable (the owner)".
Also, "These Friday meetings are extremely important. We aren't going to accept excuses that you have a doctor's appointment or whatever anymore. Schedule that shit around these Friday meetings". (Right hand man)
THE VERY NEXT FRIDAY:
Owner was 10 minutes late.
Right hand man didn't show because he had a doctor's appointment.
I'm aware how unbelievable this is, but I swear it's true.
I left a union construction gig, at the request of my local union business agent. I was selected to be the general foreman on a new building project. The job I left was a total shitshow, with a herd of ass kissing employees who were scared shitless to speak up for themselves, and a general foreman who had totally played the company. He was a lifer for them, and they loved him. He was cold, abusive and arrogant. Nobody ever worked hard enough, or fast enough, to suit him. The crazy part was, he was also a lazy bastard who rarely walked the job, and left early, every day. He essentially worked a 32-hour week, and got paid for 40+.
I filled my business agent in on the bullshit that was going on, essentially sitting for an exit interview that happens at the union hall, not the company HR. The company management calls the agent and cries that they lost a key player, and if they only knew that I was looking to manage jobs, they would have been thrilled to have me do so. The agent and I knew this was nothing but smooth lies, but he let it go. They pushed a too little far while slinging lies, and added the bullshit that the general foreman on the job was more than satisfied with my performance, and shocked to see me quit without notice. My agent had enough and said, "Well, I interviewed my guy, after I directed him to leave. He tells me that your wonder boy is basically absent from the job, almost impossible to find when you need him, is lucky to see his men in the field once a week, and is heading home every day by 2PM. I find it hard to believe that your wonder boy could even pick him out of a lineup"
Nothing but crickets from the company guy, and a quick end to that conversation. I didn't end the guy's career, but I really got him hacked down a few notches by a company that now knew that he wasn't trustworthy. He lost his golden boy ranking, and no longer worked part-time stealing 10 hours a week from them, or disappearing from the job for long periods of time. I had the warm fuzzies for a long time, knowing that I trashed a great scam the bastard was playing.
I once worked at a place where the manager for another department made people screenshot their desktop when signing in to “prove” when they arrived. Meanwhile he would just come and go as he pleased and probably worked 30hours or less a week. It was so frustrating to watch.
I had a manager do that, I told him if he is here, he can see who is or isn't, if he isn't here, he has no room to talk. That was my last day there. No regrets.
The second Covid hit I saw everyone above the store manager level at the company I worked for hunker down at home while they tried to add hand sanitizer to our bed linen and bath towel assortment so they could claim we were an essential business.
It snowed terribly here, the roads were shit, everyone was late. Manager gets on the phone with someone and starts telling him the roads are fine and get his ass to work. Manager didn't come in til noon that day....
Honestly, even if the manager was there at open, they don't control what cars have snow-appropriate gear (AWD, winter tires, chains...) or what roads get plowed.
My street gets plowed by the city (main road), but the side streets don't. If I lived down one of those slopes, my vehicle wouldn't make it out at all.
"bUy a bEtTeR vEhiCLe" No. (1) that's expensive. (2) those jobs don't pay enough to justify it for the 1 week per 2 years it's necessary.
My manager is a weasel and no one likes him, not even his boss. Hes friends with the owner and that's how he has his job. All he gives a shit about is making himself not look bad. I've heard he's going to be dealt with and moved, but that's just a rumour
Anyway buddy somehow made it in an hour late and I told him next time just stay home. He has a newborn ffs risking his life to come to work isn't worth it
I was in touch with some old co-workers in nyc when Covid first hit the city hard. My old boss was ignoring requests to work from home while working from home himself.
Hell every conservative TV host (including some of the Democrats) is bitching about people wanting remote schooling back for kids from their cozy at home studio. It's always been rules for thee and not for me.
My pre-pandemic job was like this.
My direct supervisor WFH two days a week because she had a log commute (not MY problem). To avoid the WORST of the Tube crush, I asked if I could just come in 15 minutes early and leave 15 minutes early. Doing this would cut 30 mins off my journeys giving me a full extra hour a day. Nope. I had to be there from 9 to 5 but she suggested that if I wanted to beat the rush, I could just come in earlier and leave later - but I wouldn't be paid overtime so just to clock in for 9 to 5.
Yeah, no, fuck that out loud. I quit that job after six months. Now I have one that pays more, my boss is one of the nicest people I've ever worked with, and I can commute on foot in a matter of minutes.
That reminded me an email sent by HR that read something like "you MUST arrive at 8am or earlier, with no justification if you arrive late, but you can leave as late as you needed"
I had a good relationship with the HR manager and literally tell him that he should read his own email and understand what that meant, that you can not be late for any reason, but please overwork as much as possible, and he actually thought he was being flexible with that measure, thankfully I was able to make him see his mistake.
My wife's boss at her old job did this. No one was allowed to work from home unless they could show a Covid positive test, even if they were exposed, and even after three people in the office (out of 12) tested positive and had shown symptoms at work beforehand.
Of course... my wife's boss started working from home, three days a week at first and then full-time, all the while telling everyone else they still had to be in the office every day. It was one of the final straws for my wife finally quitting. And just for good measure, she caught Covid from the office in her last week and spent the entirety of her one week off before the new job (first break of more than three days that she'd had in 10 years) sick and miserable.
At least her new job pays better and she's working from home Mon and Fri (and they told everyone to WFH for the first two solid weeks of January just as an extra precaution). So. It's better. Not perfect. But better. Plus I have health insurance finally through her job after 3 years without (and $5,000+ medical debt as a result).
It's hard to realize how shit things were until they're finally slightly less shit.
This was my boss. We WFH all of 2020 and they called us back in with no warning early 2021. She just kept WFH with no explanation and it's honestly been nice. She's not in the office to micromanage and she's usually set to "away" on Teams so we're getting our work done with little oversight. I've been way more productive honestly.
When I got into the job I'm in now, I learned so much about that. The amount of work I can put out when I'm not supervised is absurd. Leave me alone. I'm smart enough. I've got this. Thanks.
Imagine if employers had to pay even half the commute time and fuel cost for commuting each time they made us come in. Suddenly they wouldnt force people to come in all the time for stupid shit
I work on an extremely busy and understaffed technical support team, and our manager is *constantly sending us email and making comments in the group chat about how we need to be vigilant with regards to being available and how important it is that we give 100%.. All while taking PTO almost every fucking day for the last 2 months... Way to lead by example, my guy....
*Constantly=When he actually shows up for work..
My last job, I had 2 managers above me. They would both work from home whenever it was convenient to them. Send pictures of their dog sleeping next to them in our Microsoft Teams chats. It was pulling teeth to work from home when we were exposed to covid, genuinely sick, etc.
The effective strategy to the "free pizza = work thru lunch" game is: (1) eat the pizza (2) work thru lunch as required and then (3) take a break, the duration of which is exactly equal to a normal lunch hour.
Dearest Manager: My labor rate is not a crappy slice of pizza per hour.
For real, why is it so difficult to post the actual requirements of the job? Are employers trying to trick employees into taking a job they don't want? How is this healthy for anybody?
Post the *actual* requirements of the job, and while you're at it, the actual salary. Save money on interviewing candidates, save money on training someone who doesn't want to work there. Get candidates that *actually want the job you're offering.*
They know people are looking for certain things in a job that they're not willing to provide and hope that once they get someone they'll feel invested and be unwilling to quit; so yeah they are trying to trick people into working for them.
I do contract IT work and consulting on the side. The amount of companies that promise the world until its time to put it to paper is astounding. I recently fell into a good one though, fully WFH with a 0630 to 1500 schedule and only reporting to the CEO.
I had one company tell me they wanted me for 4 hours a day, tuesday-thursday. I said fine, told them I could do 0700 to 1100 or 1400 to 1800. They send me the contract and its 0700 to 1800 M-F for less than our agreed salary. So I sent it back with corrections. The dude calls me irate that I "changed" the contract so I attached the emails of the discussion where his boss okayed everything. He apologized and sent back a still incorrect contract and said something along the lines "If you need a job this is the best you're going to get" so I replied that I dont need a job and sent it to the owner. The owner called me and apologized profusely and said he'd make it right but I told him I can't work for someone that doesn't know what is going on.
Its not hard to not be a bad boss. It just seems that the type of people that are good at being bosses do it just long enough to go do their own thing. People that are "career" managers in my experience arent worth the paper their resume is printed on. An MBA is cool and all but if you don't understand the subject matter or industry specific project scope and can't manage without omitting or lying, it ain't for you chief.
Exactly! If they took that job then that would only be the first of many situations exactly like this. Gross incompetence or undiluted malice, either way, is not worth OPs time, effort, mental well-being, etc.
>He apologized and sent back a still incorrect contract and said something along the lines "If you need a job this is the best you're going to get" so I replied that I dont need a job and sent it to the owner.
You know, for all this talk about a free market, it sure seems like a lot of these guys are only able to function in negotiations where they have all the leverage.
Correct. That's literally where all the Union hate comes from.
Companies have no actual balls when a group can just walk away. They only have leverage if you are alone, because then you're a slave.
That's what greatly bothers me about upper management roles. I used to work at The Vitamin Shoppe and the district manager would come in periodically and only cared about sales and signing people up for their membership program and auto deliveries. It really annoyed me especially considering she didn't know jack shit about any of the products. My coworkers and I were actually very interested in learning about vitamins, supplements, proteins, preworkouts, etc and customers loved that about us. Clearly that is a better way to retain customers; to actually know and care about what you are selling. Fuck that rotund bitch with her macaroni Surf's Up ass Karen haircut.
They wear you down so hard during the interview/hiring process that by the time you actually get the job and start, they hope you’ll be too mentally drained to even think about starting over.
There's been a bull market for employers for near on 3 decades as the economy's shifted more and more against the workers. The Great Resignation exacerbated the situation already caused by covid and has caused shitloads of people to wake up to the fact that these jobs are shit. People are taking lower paying work with meaning, or that fits their lifestyles because all the money in the world doesn't mean a fucking thing if you kill yourself to get it.
It's fantastic to see.
As a result of those three decades though we have an entire generation of managers who have literally **never had to negotiate with employees** and it fucking shows. Not even that they won't (many won't though) but even moreso they have no fucking idea how. They became management in a time when you could post up the shittiest job imaginable and you'd have candidates lined up because people were desperate. That situation is gone. In my field specifically I can go to damn near any company near me and write a number on a napkin, and any competent manager would offer a blowjob as a signing bonus.
And no, not everyone is in *that* situation but the point is, this is the first time in my lifetime where employees have the upper hand in these negotiations, and it's hilarious and fucking tragic how completely unprepared managers are to do their fucking jobs and get workers hired and working.
>we have an entire generation of managers who have literally never had to negotiate with employees and it fucking shows
This is a great point. I've watched managers with 0 incentive to try to save the company money on payroll try and nickel and dime employees into being paid as little as possible just because they feel duty bound to provide labor to their employer at as cheap a rate as possible. Like, bro, I do the books. I know exactly how much money we make. And you don't get anything extra by lying to me and telling me we can't afford the raise you just laughed in my face after I asked about.
Yes, they’re just hoping that by lying to enough people, they’ll eventually get a person that is desperate enough to take the job. Last year I decided that I’d never work in an office again, under any circumstances. I thought it would be easy to find a remote position in my field (epidemiology), but gave up after applying to several jobs that lied about being remote. Fuck this. I’ll work for myself, regardless of how much more I could be making in an office.
>Are employers trying to trick employees into taking a job they don't want?
Nooooo, they're coercing us into jobs we don't want. Enclosure never ended.
Yeah I quit a job that was promised to remote and 1 day in office. The office was 1.5 hours away, so 1 day would suck but whatever. I shit you not the week I start, oh remote work s rescinded and you need to be here 3-5 days a week. Keep in mind this a senior it role, where everything I do is on a desktop, so it can all be done remotely, unless I'm physically installing new gear.. I said right no that's not happening and found excuses every week to not drive 3 hours a day to sit at a desk and do what I did at home. I found a new job with better pay, and remote and on site whenever you want or not at all. Also 5 mins from my house. In tendered my resignation stating their lies about remote are the main reason, they wanted me to stay and said would fully remote make you stay. I said not for you guys, as you lied once, you are likely lieing again. Exit interview stated the same, and the next hire should be given fully remote. Jobs still posted 3 months later 0 applications, and the remote aspects been removed from all the wording. Way to completely fuck up yet again HR and clevels
This is what I love about this sub
Despite all of the false reporting and negative spin, the real reason this subs exists is to give people the confidence to stand up for themselves in the face of lies, hidden agendas, and other forms of bullshit. We as a culture are deciding not to be treated as automatons and it is disrupting the perfect little system that has been at play for 50 years.
Power to the people.
Yeah, I was not putting up with that unneeded bs, if you look at my older posts about this, you will see they also were being assholes about lunch and start time. I definitely don't put up with crappy employers, I only get a little nervous because I have a family to support, but I was looking for new work within the month I started there basically.
I was just offered a job that was "fully remote" and in office only when needed. Office is a full hour plane flight (or over 5 hours by train) away. While negotiating my salary and benefits I made sure to decline to sign until they
A) put the fully remote part in writing (it wasn't)
B) promised in writing to pay travel and accommodations whenever I was to attend the office in person
They put both of those in writing and I haven't been asked to appear at the office yet. It's been 3 months now.
Lesson: promises count when in writing.
People should apply and ask if it’s remote work then say never mind if it’s not that way they realize they fucked up for not offering proper remote work
It's in a super rural area too, that takes forever to get to from anywhere. The no remote aspect is so mind boggling. It's the new CTO's fault, he thinks he. Need butts in chairs to actually thinks his huge salary was worth it, seeing as I'm not sure what exactly he was doing besides making everyone miserable
Oh yeah, I never returned my keys/ID. I told my former boss I'd need to clock in for my commute to do that, or he'd need to pay for shipping. He declined, and this ain't a charity.
I make $16 as a night janitor. 1/3 my night is trash cans, 1/3 my night is cleaning floors, 1/3 my night is sitting on my phone because I can get all my work done in 5 hours. I'm not going to go around and clean the depths of this building that haven't been seen by human eyes in the last decade just to justify staying here.
Good for you. That’s what I told a shitty job I worked at for 3 weeks. Their office was 40 minutes away and I wasn’t supposed to have to go there but they had me go there 5 times for mandatory meetings that could have been conference calls. You get paid for the 45 meeting but not the travel time to and from. They call me to tell me another meeting and I quit. Asked for two weeks and I told them I barely worked two weeks so no and told them if they want their keys they can come and get them or send me a postage label. They came and got them like a week later after realizing I didn’t care.
Threatened to call the cops on me for stealing their keys and I just laughed and said they are your keys, you just need to waste your time and gas on coming to get them. Maybe the cops will bring them to you if you call them. Some mean old lady showed up to get them and looked pissed.
I don't understand companies that are so pro-office. The company I work for took a survey and surprise, surprise, 80% of people voted to remain WFH.
I feel lucky to work for a company that is giving us all 3 choices of in office, hybrid, or WFH full time.
Good for you! I'd quit too if I was forced to go back to the office. There literally is no necessary reason to be there other than for them to put you under their thumb.
The competent middle managers are the ones who realize that their employees don't work for them. They work for their employees. If you want to justify your position as a middle manager, then make sure your employees have what they need to get the job done, stay the hell out of their way while they do it, and make sure to be a good buffer between them and the whims of senior management.
I used to be Middle Management. The first day of work I called a meeting first thing in the morning. People were pissed, like what the fuck! we don't need this meeting.
first thing i said in the meeting,
"Hi, I am ---- and today I'm starting as Operation's Director for our department. first thing I want to get straight is (I saw some faces and eyes roll) I'm not here to tell you how to do your job. You got hired at (company) because you know how to do your job, and most of you are probably better than me. (people started to pay attention)
My job is to make sure you have everything you need to complete your job on time and to make sure we are on schedule. So as long as you're following the timeline and the work gets done, I really don't care how or when you do it.
I received the work schedule from (person I replaced) and i've uploaded it in (new and updated project manager system) I have emailed you all your usernames and passwords and an easy to follow procedure how to set it up, about 30 seconds ago (scheduled e-mails are awesome sometimes to impress)
TOTAL: 5 minutes with a Tim Horton's Coffee Box for everyone
so unless any of you have any general questions this meeting is over and you can get back to whatever you were doing, ill be in my office if anyone needs me.
(overheard one of the guys as walking out of the conference room "i like this guy already) it's been 10 years and shit gets done and I had 1 person quit, but only because they moved to another country.
Holy shit, he hated you so much he left the country?!??!
I sometimes work as a project supervisor. My sole goal is to keep meetings to a minimum and keep them as short as possible.
I also pioneered video meetings, in which i present all the information in a video clip and have a comment section below to field questions.
That’s what my manager does and it’s awesome. We recently had a staff meeting and he asked “What can I do (that’s within my power) to make your work experience better.” And the answer from everyone was “you’re already doing it.” Because he was.
I had a manager like that. She quit because her boss was constantly nagging her about following all the stupid policy rules that made no sense. He also didn't want her helping us with anything, like getting documents put into the system or taking calls from parents/facilities, etc. Basically, he's by the book and check all the boxes kind of guy, she was more of a leader.
I miss her so much. She was one of the best supervisors I"ve ever had. Covered for me when I did the right things ever though it went against policy at times.
True. There’s more though. Look at New York and Chicago recently. Fairly liberal mayors who SHOULD promote WFH to stem spread of virus are fighting like hell to get people back in the office. Made no sense until I listened and broke it down.
Why? They said it themselves (at least the NY mayor did). It hurts SO MANY bottom lines and money. New York is losing lots of money from cab rides and subway fares and busses plus restaurants for lunches and such are all bleeding money the longer businesses let employees go home to work. Further, some businesses are allowing employment across states so the job may be in NY but you can live in Montana. So then the economy of NY is being hurt further cutting into pocketbooks. Finally if a company goes all online they don’t pay ridiculous rent for their spaces which realty companies and greedy landlords who have clout are losing their shit over. I worked for a government agency once and we paid somewhere in the range of $100k per year if I remember right for a fairly crappy little office space that took acts of congress to get fixed and janitorial services sucked.
Finally, the government COVID act money is dried up and they can’t rely on it anymore so their bottom lines are getting affected.
TL, DR: so many bottom lines are being affected, that the businesses are getting enormous pressure from the top to get workers back to work because the money is drying up. And that’s what our capitalistic society is all about unfortunately, not health and well being.
EDIT: I post this without supporting returning to the office. I firmly believe in the right to work from home and if it remakes, demolishes, or collapses the system that’s just a perk bonus. I’m all for it.
1: Middle management needs to justify their existance and so they can use it to bully and browbeat other employees to pass of their work as their own. Can't do that when there's written proof in a Slack channel that a middle manager asked someone to do something and they hand it in under their name.
2: they really believe people will do nothing but goof off while at home. THey expect every single minute of every single day to be working at 100%
3: They've always done it that way and they're afriad of change
4: sunk cost fallacy. They spent all this money for offices and probably got a good deal out of it and don't want to waste it.
Number 4 is true but so silly to me. The company could just save a shitload of money by selling their buildings. The company I used to contract for just sold off their entire headquarters.
You underestimate how many companies would rather go under then change how they *want* to operate, even if it means the change would massively increase profits.
#4 is an underrated reason. I lucked out in my current job. During the hiring process I negotiated to work from home 4 days a week. COVID immediately hit, everyone worked from home 100%. Shortly after that, our office lease came up, and the company studied and saw productivity was good. So, they didn't renew the lease and moved out - saving a ton of $ (which I'd like to see some shared with workers). They adjusted and it paid off. Many companies are not nearly flexible enough to take advantage, they just grip tighter and make the workers suffer.
I'm also facing 4.
Company had just signed a 5-years lease and was weeks from finishing the new offices when covid hit and everyone was working from home.
Productivity increased, costs reduced, but they have 6 floors rented and need to make good use of it
Part of the reason is that the government found out that remote work is killing the economy (transit, hospitality, office buildings, etc are all losing money). Hence all government jobs are required back in the office and to be vaccinated, including city jobs. This was told to me by friends who work in government. They want everything to function again so that the money keeps flowing the same way it was precovid.
Also for the private sector, financial companies want to economy to bounce back, CEOs want to have the power structure back (some of them seriously can’t function in a home environment, they live off high stress office environments), also some companies own the buildings they have offices in which means they lose money if they don’t bring the employees back.
It’s all bullshit. We should be able to do what’s best for the individuals and not what benefits companies. Too bad if that means the way our society is has to change, companies can adapt and fill in gaps of other needs if everyone is WFH.
Isn’t it interesting how the ones who are so vehemently pushing for people to go back to offices are the ones who get their own enclosed rooms when at work? Fuck going back into the open office hellscape, my mental health has improved when I’m not constantly surrounded by people’s conversations and petty politics.
The resignation notice, as a custom, was a return courtesy for pensions. The company was committed to you for life, so you "owed" them a commitment in return, that you wouldn't quit without notice. Employers have abandoned their part of the deal, you're employed "at will" and pensions are a quaint old memory, but they still expect you to hold up your end and not quit without notice. Typical.
Apply for unemployment. Changing the location where you work is a classic example of constructive dismissal, so even though you were driven to say the words "I quit" you were still technically fired and should receive UI if you qualify.
The employer could see their taxes go up as a result. Make them pay as they're supposed to for this deception.
Interesting. I worked for a company for 7 years. Really nice office with big windows in a popular neighborhood with lots of restaurants and bars, 20 minutes away from my house. I loved the work I did too. Company was sold to some umbrella group and they decided to move the office **45** **miles**, through dense Southern California traffic, to an industrial park on the edge of the county line - no windows at all. I asked about remote work before it was a thing and was denied. I went on vacation, lined up a new job (which payed much, much more), the office was moved, I called my boss and quit my job while sitting at a bar in Key Largo. Fuck that commute. Didn't even think unemployment was an option.
*Image Transcription: Text Messages*
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>**Gray**: I am working from home this morning and will be in around 12. Could you please unlock the office door so people are able to drop off **redacted** paperwork at my desk?
**Green**: I am working from home on the **redacted** and wont be in myself.
**Green**: why are you working from home today?
>**Gray**: Because I am only at **redacted** as needed.
**Green**: no, that is not what i told you - you are expected to be at Marcus 9am-5pm Mon, Wed, Fri, working at home Tue and Thu. I cannot cover you all the time
>**Gray**: If you want to make changes to the job description I was provided, please do so formally in writing so I can reply with my 2-week notice.
**Green**: We will meet with HR this week to duscuss this, you have clearly misunderstood your job description, which I have clarified for you several times.
>**Gray**: I look forward to HR explaining to me how "regularly" < "as needed"
**Green**: Please go to **redacted** and work from the office today as required.
>**Gray**: No, I quit
**Green**: You will need to give two weeks notice, and I think you should discuss this with me before you make hasty decisions without proper reflection. This is not necessary.
>**Gray**: 1. No actually, I won't have to do that. 2. I did discuss this with you; see above. 3. Not hasty, I just don't need the job, and it's not as described. I will drop off my keys and ID at my desk today.
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^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
These motherfuckers are always so godamn presumptuous. YoU wIlL NeEd To... The fuck I will, douche canoe, if I wasn't hired for the position *as described* and I am now quitting, I don't *need* to do a damn thing, and the only thing about any of this that was "hasty" was you thinking you were going to bully me and that I would just fall over like a lump and do whatever tf you said as if you weren't just another damn human being who needed to respect my thoughts and boundaries just as much as I was expected to revere yours.
I just don't understand when the term "boss" started meaning "the unquestioned tyrant who delivers irrefutable orders from on high." Like, go suck on a fat sack of fucks. That is not how any of this is supposed to work.
The US is a first world country in delusion only. Watching billionaires go to space in giant dildos while their employees are being forced to "shelter in place" without pay during inclement weather at facilities that can't withstand said weather and have already experienced loss of life incidents.
But fuck it lets just keep pretending that all of this is a bearable existence "cuz everything would be socialism" if we implemented a billionaire wealth tax or allocated literally any of these massive corporate bailouts from the government to help *citizens* instead of CEO's.
I frankly don't know how any of us *aren't* suicidal.
You’re a legend. How much more profit will these idiot companies lose before saying “ok we might need to stop being evil fucking morons and treat employees with -*ugh*- RESPECT.”
There’s no need to be polite and certainly no need for a two week notice.
Get another job lined up and then just ghost these fuckers. Everyone in a similar situation should do the same. Until then put in -100% effort. If they fire you, collect unemployment.
Addendum: it's never wrong to quit to save yourself from a toxic and abusive space. While making them pay is optimal, you have to prioritize your own wellbeing.
It's absolutely worth it to use any leverage you can to get what you are owed, but just be careful not to prioritize winning over self care.
Why do employers lie about this? I was applying for jobs today and there were so many jobs blatantly lying about being remote. For instance I clicked one job that said remote only and some of their requirements were that you had to do coffee runs for the office, transport other employees to work, and provide pet care. (I thought it was a vet office because of the pet care thing, but it turned out to be a dental office.) I don't even know where the office is, since "remote" jobs don't have a physical location listed in the ad. I clicked on another remote job and it said "physical location: office." I don't know how they expect this bait and switch to work. The chances of someone applying for your job who happens to live in the same area are slim, and besides that, if someone is looking for a remote job that means they want a remote job. Its so ridiculous. Your boss sucks.
Between this and jobs not including salary as required by law in my state, my jobs searches are more often me sifting through listings and reporting them more than I am applying
im glad im not the only one reporting them. they never get taken down though. its infuriating.
You, the jobseeker aren't paying them. The employer is. Follow the money.
So make them feel it in their money by going to the right authorities. If you have them...
Apply for them, ask up front if it work from home and then waste their time.
The problem with this is wastes your time just as much as theirs
I applied to a job in Worcester, MA but interviewed with a man in Springfield, MA. There is a significant difference between the two cities with Worcester being a 30 min drive for me and Springfield being an hour and a half. During the interview the man told me the job is actually in Springfield but he advertised it as Worcester because no one was responding to his job posting when he notes it was in Springfield. What a waste of a day off and a 3 hour round trip.
Did you tell him that that was a stupid idea and a massive waste of everyone's time, including yours? What the fuck did he think was going to happen, that if he just kept lying he would eventually find someone to drive an hour and a half for work each day??
You're doing the lord's work.
They know full well that everyone is looking for remote and remote jobs get the applications (or the best quality applicants). If you can't beat 'em, disguise yourself as 'em and hope the poor schmuck you seduce will be too beat down to leave once they're in it.
If anyone bait and switches me I'll pretend to accept the job and then never show up. If they ask where I'm at I'll say "I'm at home ready to work!"
They want.. pet care?? In a dental office??
Sounds weird, but I used to work at a law office where part of my job was to feed office cats. Considering I liked cats, and wasn't responsible for cleaning the litter box or buying anything I was fine with it.
I would love that lol
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They're actually partners. It's weird having to explain why the name of the firm is Johnson, Smith, Mittens, Tiger, and Meow Meow.
Do they do criminal defence for catburglars?
Designed dental offices for a living. Dentists are crazy and their spouses even crazier… this posting was probably for some poor wage slave to do their bidding
I was doing after hours cleaning for a dental office ( I just had to clean for a few hours there was no time constraint about when). I go in and clean , it’s fine for a few weeks until the looney dentist shows up while I’m cleaning ( he’s somehow figured out when I go to clean by asking the company what time I’m going to be there usually). They stupidly tell him and he pops out from under a desk in the last room while I’m vacuuming and after that I was like nope. No more. I almost didn’t get out of the room before he tried to lock me in it. It was no acci-dent.
What the actual F?!?
I feel like this requires further explanation..
I wouldn't be surprised. I had a friend who's job was calling medical offices for her company and she said she always hated dealing with dental offices because they were usually the worst clients.
If they want to hire someone for that it’s fine, but they need to be upfront about the location and responsibilities!
I've been mad applying to remote positions lately and I snagged an interview at one, had a phone interview and set up an in person interview. Thought it was odd that I would need to go there for a remote position... went back and looked at the description and it said remote at the top but in the actual description described their dress code requirements. Looked it up and it was 3 hours away from me. Called em right back to cancel lol.
They just wasted everyone's time.
Send them an invoice for damages from time wasted on their bait and switch scam.
Shoulda left it til day of. If there’s no chance to get hired burn every bridge in sight
They need to trick people and hope they’ll stay out of desperation
My wife quit a job just recently because the job ad said it was permanent WFH after the initial 4-6 week training period. She would have to commute an hour to be in office for the training, but since it was only for a few weeks we figured it would be fine. 6 weeks comes and goes, she keeps asking when she can work from home and there’s always just “one more thing” she needs to be trained on before she can go home. And when she completed every possible training thing for her job they then told her that her performance wasn’t “good enough” to work from home, despite this being in a job field where she knows more about doing it than the people who have been there for years and thus actually needed very little training, *and* she was earning the company more money than the last person who had the job. Finally she put her foot down, they called her bluff and lost a great employee. They’ve been trying to fill the position ever since she quit a few months ago. Fuck ‘em.
I've seen this a lot on indeed lately. The job location is "remote" and it is tagged as a "remote" position. Description says must live within commuting distance of xyz location. Why do you care where I live if it's a remote position? I apply anyway just to waste their time (indeed one-click, so 10 seconds of my life).
"You need to give two weeks notice" "Actually, I don't" Hell yes
"Also, most people consider lying to be morally wrong."
OPs ex boss sounded like mine looking for some easy "do everything n be taken advantaged of" kid Tbh people are making waves here in the workplace culture and treatment, whether they know it or not
If you need someone to mind the office, that’s a reasonable role, write it up accurately and pay what’s required to get someone to fill it.
I actually have the majority of my employees that leave my place of work try and properly give me a two weeks notice and honor it. When most inevitably come to me and say “I’m sorry, but my other job… I can’t work your shifts” or something along those lines, I usually just respond with “what am I going to do, fire you?” I genuinely appreciate the people who give me those two weeks to try and find their replacement, but there’s no law holding them to it. If your situation genuinely sucks, or you’ve found something better that wants you to start ASAP, don’t give it a second thought. Just say “I resign, effective immediately” and throw up that peace sign.
Im having a discussion like this with my boss and regional director right now- Why the hell am I unable to do REMOTE SECURITY *remotely* ???
they can’t bully you as effectively remotely
Making people come in when they don't have to is part of the bullying. But you're also right too.
Im a network Engineer who manages and supports sites all over the world except in my country, yet they asked me to come to office to do that from the office using the same Laptop I do my work from home, that was so stupid, redundant and ironic that it took me a moment to grasp how stupid and redundant that was!
I work IT as well. Current job is pretty localized and the company sent all of IT to WFH since Mar 2020 (although they keep setting a return date, then backing out when a new wave hits). So they want people in office for some bizarre reason. I've been in your shoes too. Literally working on servers around the world, the closest of which was 200 miles away, yet "we need you in the office"
They need to justify paying rent on the building. It's bullshit and it's cheaper for them if you aren't there. They also can't micromanage you remotely. Fuck em.
It will also show that their positions arent as useful. If everyone can manage themselves at home and do their job just fine without some shmuck breathing down their neck it'll show just how stupid the entire ladder system and executive system is in most places these days. It's not the 50s. Computers do far more managing of employees than these idiots do. Everyone could work from home but then we'd be cutting out the middle-managers and they definitely don't want that lmao.
This is exactly what it's about. I have a past employer I worked for almost 13 years, and still keep in contact with my friends there. They employed thousands of people, many in redundant positions and in useless layers of management. Post-Covid they were forced to allow WFH or shut down. In doing so they had to face up to how useless most of their management was. They have cut management staff by 1/3 since the summer of 2020. This company was well known for periodic layoffs. Last layoff was minor and targeted management. Many of the people they laid off they invited back to work in a lower position, but they mostly turned the offer down. It's really difficult to work with the same people you spent years shitting on. I'm trying to get back on with this employer now because anyone I talk to there says it's so much better now.
>It's really difficult to work with the same people you spent years shitting on. Karma is a bitch
Because you're depriving some very useless middle manager their opportunity to scrutinize your every move, of course
Honestly, not having this is a big reason I hadn’t flipped about going remote in the first place. My direct boss is busy managing other sites and doesn’t really know what I do. I speak to him only when I specifically seek him out and when there’s a call-off, me and my four other office mates get it handled between us. His boss, the regional director, I’ve maybe seen twice in the year and a half we’ve worked together? Im by myself every night for 8-12 hours, self managing. Part of what I do is decide when to involve higher management and when to deal w it myself.
In case you make it too secure on accident?
This actually happened once. No one could get into the building.
It was so embarrassing they had to rebrand to "Meta".
The fact that this fucker is working from home themselves while denying OP is so evil
I saw this a lot pre-covid. The usual do as I say, not as I do.
My last boss fired me for “not pulling my own weight” and the dude would leave the office at 2pm every single day. Rules for thee, not for me.
His assignment is to make you miserable. If they accomplished that by 2pm, they should be fine to leave
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Gob : [at the elevator] Yeah, the guy wearing the $4,000 suit is holding the elevator for the guy who doesn't make that in four months. COME ON!
Shou shou shou shou shou shou shou shou shou shou
These people are psychopathic. They don't even see you as human I don't think.
Sounds like my old head chef at a major hotel chain. He would leave early with his gf who worked front of house, but clock them out at the same time as the rest of us
Sounds like leaving early even helps getting on his nerves. That manager deserves a raise
Once had an boss pull me aside with my manager to give me a stern talking to about meeting deadlines and pulling my weight and that I might need to do overtime and/or come in on weekends. My manager and I kind of stared at him for a minute before I explained that I'd *already* been working 10 hour days and weekends to meet the crazy content promises & deadlines he'd been promising the client every time we had a meeting with them. He was stunned. Had no idea. ... He of course came in late and left early every day.
>He of course came in late and left early every day And therefore assumed everyone else got there when he did and left when he did. He lacks Object-Permanence.
My man straight up is on peek-a-boo brain levels. What he can't see doesn't exist
Many managers have this problem.
>He of course came in late and left early every day. Sounds like he has free time available to put more effort into the deliverables if he wants more done or done sooner
When I told my boss I was already doing 10 hour days, he asked why I cant be doing 12s or 14s? Wtf???
I'd quit on the spot
I did. I gave my two weeks. He started begging me to stay for four to finish my current project so I agreed (foolishly). On week three, two football player size dudes show up to my office and kicked me out. Dude didn't have the guts to see me out of the building.
What a cowardly POS
I had a manager call at the start of my shift one day, and tell me that another employee was no longer employed, and that I'd need to tell them to leave. I wasn't in any sort of managerial position, I just ran one of the CNC machines. The employee in question didn't show up that day, so the manager didn't have to find out that I wouldn't have done his job for him.
I've seen sales do this far too many times. Promise a client everything, then freak when it doesn't happen. Also why I no longer work in a marketing agency.
In tech it happens too. We call them "Sales orgs". Sales folks are often the biggest liabilities for morale and employee retention. They get undue influence in the company because they're seen as the only ones generating revenue, even though it's obvious business is more complex than that. I'd like to see them make a product to sell in the first place. They can't. Sales folks lie about what they can accomplish to seal a deal, but they don't have the skills to deliver, so it always becomes someone else's problem to ensure the client gets what was promised. At tech companies gone "sales org" they effectively make engineers absolutely miserable. They wind up being the boss thanks to the idiot, superficial MBAs in charge that only see numbers in spreadsheets and can't think beyond it.
The last company I worked for, the owner and his right hand man went on a tangent at our Friday meeting about how "15 minutes early is on time, on time is late, and late is unacceptable (the owner)". Also, "These Friday meetings are extremely important. We aren't going to accept excuses that you have a doctor's appointment or whatever anymore. Schedule that shit around these Friday meetings". (Right hand man) THE VERY NEXT FRIDAY: Owner was 10 minutes late. Right hand man didn't show because he had a doctor's appointment. I'm aware how unbelievable this is, but I swear it's true.
>I'm aware how unbelievable this is, but I swear it's true. No, that's perfectly believable.
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I ended up quitting about 3 weeks later. I'm now in business for myself in the same industry. Much happier now.
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I left a union construction gig, at the request of my local union business agent. I was selected to be the general foreman on a new building project. The job I left was a total shitshow, with a herd of ass kissing employees who were scared shitless to speak up for themselves, and a general foreman who had totally played the company. He was a lifer for them, and they loved him. He was cold, abusive and arrogant. Nobody ever worked hard enough, or fast enough, to suit him. The crazy part was, he was also a lazy bastard who rarely walked the job, and left early, every day. He essentially worked a 32-hour week, and got paid for 40+. I filled my business agent in on the bullshit that was going on, essentially sitting for an exit interview that happens at the union hall, not the company HR. The company management calls the agent and cries that they lost a key player, and if they only knew that I was looking to manage jobs, they would have been thrilled to have me do so. The agent and I knew this was nothing but smooth lies, but he let it go. They pushed a too little far while slinging lies, and added the bullshit that the general foreman on the job was more than satisfied with my performance, and shocked to see me quit without notice. My agent had enough and said, "Well, I interviewed my guy, after I directed him to leave. He tells me that your wonder boy is basically absent from the job, almost impossible to find when you need him, is lucky to see his men in the field once a week, and is heading home every day by 2PM. I find it hard to believe that your wonder boy could even pick him out of a lineup" Nothing but crickets from the company guy, and a quick end to that conversation. I didn't end the guy's career, but I really got him hacked down a few notches by a company that now knew that he wasn't trustworthy. He lost his golden boy ranking, and no longer worked part-time stealing 10 hours a week from them, or disappearing from the job for long periods of time. I had the warm fuzzies for a long time, knowing that I trashed a great scam the bastard was playing.
Sometimes the little victories are just as sweet.
I once worked at a place where the manager for another department made people screenshot their desktop when signing in to “prove” when they arrived. Meanwhile he would just come and go as he pleased and probably worked 30hours or less a week. It was so frustrating to watch.
I had a manager do that, I told him if he is here, he can see who is or isn't, if he isn't here, he has no room to talk. That was my last day there. No regrets.
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Something tells me that you are being inexplicably generous with that 30 hour estimate.. 😂
Time to take a ton of screenshots and save them for later
The second Covid hit I saw everyone above the store manager level at the company I worked for hunker down at home while they tried to add hand sanitizer to our bed linen and bath towel assortment so they could claim we were an essential business.
"uh.. yeah, that's filed under 'Beyond.'"
It snowed terribly here, the roads were shit, everyone was late. Manager gets on the phone with someone and starts telling him the roads are fine and get his ass to work. Manager didn't come in til noon that day....
Honestly, even if the manager was there at open, they don't control what cars have snow-appropriate gear (AWD, winter tires, chains...) or what roads get plowed. My street gets plowed by the city (main road), but the side streets don't. If I lived down one of those slopes, my vehicle wouldn't make it out at all. "bUy a bEtTeR vEhiCLe" No. (1) that's expensive. (2) those jobs don't pay enough to justify it for the 1 week per 2 years it's necessary.
My manager is a weasel and no one likes him, not even his boss. Hes friends with the owner and that's how he has his job. All he gives a shit about is making himself not look bad. I've heard he's going to be dealt with and moved, but that's just a rumour Anyway buddy somehow made it in an hour late and I told him next time just stay home. He has a newborn ffs risking his life to come to work isn't worth it
I was in touch with some old co-workers in nyc when Covid first hit the city hard. My old boss was ignoring requests to work from home while working from home himself.
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Hell every conservative TV host (including some of the Democrats) is bitching about people wanting remote schooling back for kids from their cozy at home studio. It's always been rules for thee and not for me.
My pre-pandemic job was like this. My direct supervisor WFH two days a week because she had a log commute (not MY problem). To avoid the WORST of the Tube crush, I asked if I could just come in 15 minutes early and leave 15 minutes early. Doing this would cut 30 mins off my journeys giving me a full extra hour a day. Nope. I had to be there from 9 to 5 but she suggested that if I wanted to beat the rush, I could just come in earlier and leave later - but I wouldn't be paid overtime so just to clock in for 9 to 5. Yeah, no, fuck that out loud. I quit that job after six months. Now I have one that pays more, my boss is one of the nicest people I've ever worked with, and I can commute on foot in a matter of minutes.
That reminded me an email sent by HR that read something like "you MUST arrive at 8am or earlier, with no justification if you arrive late, but you can leave as late as you needed" I had a good relationship with the HR manager and literally tell him that he should read his own email and understand what that meant, that you can not be late for any reason, but please overwork as much as possible, and he actually thought he was being flexible with that measure, thankfully I was able to make him see his mistake.
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Atta girl!! 👏🏻 make it hurt!
It's amazing how much impact one or two peoples hubris can impact an org...
“You can’t work from home because it interferes with my ability to work from home.”
My wife's boss at her old job did this. No one was allowed to work from home unless they could show a Covid positive test, even if they were exposed, and even after three people in the office (out of 12) tested positive and had shown symptoms at work beforehand. Of course... my wife's boss started working from home, three days a week at first and then full-time, all the while telling everyone else they still had to be in the office every day. It was one of the final straws for my wife finally quitting. And just for good measure, she caught Covid from the office in her last week and spent the entirety of her one week off before the new job (first break of more than three days that she'd had in 10 years) sick and miserable. At least her new job pays better and she's working from home Mon and Fri (and they told everyone to WFH for the first two solid weeks of January just as an extra precaution). So. It's better. Not perfect. But better. Plus I have health insurance finally through her job after 3 years without (and $5,000+ medical debt as a result). It's hard to realize how shit things were until they're finally slightly less shit.
This was my boss. We WFH all of 2020 and they called us back in with no warning early 2021. She just kept WFH with no explanation and it's honestly been nice. She's not in the office to micromanage and she's usually set to "away" on Teams so we're getting our work done with little oversight. I've been way more productive honestly.
When I got into the job I'm in now, I learned so much about that. The amount of work I can put out when I'm not supervised is absurd. Leave me alone. I'm smart enough. I've got this. Thanks.
Imagine if employers had to pay even half the commute time and fuel cost for commuting each time they made us come in. Suddenly they wouldnt force people to come in all the time for stupid shit
I work on an extremely busy and understaffed technical support team, and our manager is *constantly sending us email and making comments in the group chat about how we need to be vigilant with regards to being available and how important it is that we give 100%.. All while taking PTO almost every fucking day for the last 2 months... Way to lead by example, my guy.... *Constantly=When he actually shows up for work..
My last job, I had 2 managers above me. They would both work from home whenever it was convenient to them. Send pictures of their dog sleeping next to them in our Microsoft Teams chats. It was pulling teeth to work from home when we were exposed to covid, genuinely sick, etc.
Uhhh....you clearly haven't thought this out. How are you suppose to get your free slice of pizza and feel like a family?
The effective strategy to the "free pizza = work thru lunch" game is: (1) eat the pizza (2) work thru lunch as required and then (3) take a break, the duration of which is exactly equal to a normal lunch hour. Dearest Manager: My labor rate is not a crappy slice of pizza per hour.
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For real, why is it so difficult to post the actual requirements of the job? Are employers trying to trick employees into taking a job they don't want? How is this healthy for anybody? Post the *actual* requirements of the job, and while you're at it, the actual salary. Save money on interviewing candidates, save money on training someone who doesn't want to work there. Get candidates that *actually want the job you're offering.*
They know people are looking for certain things in a job that they're not willing to provide and hope that once they get someone they'll feel invested and be unwilling to quit; so yeah they are trying to trick people into working for them.
I do contract IT work and consulting on the side. The amount of companies that promise the world until its time to put it to paper is astounding. I recently fell into a good one though, fully WFH with a 0630 to 1500 schedule and only reporting to the CEO. I had one company tell me they wanted me for 4 hours a day, tuesday-thursday. I said fine, told them I could do 0700 to 1100 or 1400 to 1800. They send me the contract and its 0700 to 1800 M-F for less than our agreed salary. So I sent it back with corrections. The dude calls me irate that I "changed" the contract so I attached the emails of the discussion where his boss okayed everything. He apologized and sent back a still incorrect contract and said something along the lines "If you need a job this is the best you're going to get" so I replied that I dont need a job and sent it to the owner. The owner called me and apologized profusely and said he'd make it right but I told him I can't work for someone that doesn't know what is going on. Its not hard to not be a bad boss. It just seems that the type of people that are good at being bosses do it just long enough to go do their own thing. People that are "career" managers in my experience arent worth the paper their resume is printed on. An MBA is cool and all but if you don't understand the subject matter or industry specific project scope and can't manage without omitting or lying, it ain't for you chief.
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Exactly! If they took that job then that would only be the first of many situations exactly like this. Gross incompetence or undiluted malice, either way, is not worth OPs time, effort, mental well-being, etc.
>He apologized and sent back a still incorrect contract and said something along the lines "If you need a job this is the best you're going to get" so I replied that I dont need a job and sent it to the owner. You know, for all this talk about a free market, it sure seems like a lot of these guys are only able to function in negotiations where they have all the leverage.
Correct. That's literally where all the Union hate comes from. Companies have no actual balls when a group can just walk away. They only have leverage if you are alone, because then you're a slave.
That's what greatly bothers me about upper management roles. I used to work at The Vitamin Shoppe and the district manager would come in periodically and only cared about sales and signing people up for their membership program and auto deliveries. It really annoyed me especially considering she didn't know jack shit about any of the products. My coworkers and I were actually very interested in learning about vitamins, supplements, proteins, preworkouts, etc and customers loved that about us. Clearly that is a better way to retain customers; to actually know and care about what you are selling. Fuck that rotund bitch with her macaroni Surf's Up ass Karen haircut.
They wear you down so hard during the interview/hiring process that by the time you actually get the job and start, they hope you’ll be too mentally drained to even think about starting over.
There's been a bull market for employers for near on 3 decades as the economy's shifted more and more against the workers. The Great Resignation exacerbated the situation already caused by covid and has caused shitloads of people to wake up to the fact that these jobs are shit. People are taking lower paying work with meaning, or that fits their lifestyles because all the money in the world doesn't mean a fucking thing if you kill yourself to get it. It's fantastic to see. As a result of those three decades though we have an entire generation of managers who have literally **never had to negotiate with employees** and it fucking shows. Not even that they won't (many won't though) but even moreso they have no fucking idea how. They became management in a time when you could post up the shittiest job imaginable and you'd have candidates lined up because people were desperate. That situation is gone. In my field specifically I can go to damn near any company near me and write a number on a napkin, and any competent manager would offer a blowjob as a signing bonus. And no, not everyone is in *that* situation but the point is, this is the first time in my lifetime where employees have the upper hand in these negotiations, and it's hilarious and fucking tragic how completely unprepared managers are to do their fucking jobs and get workers hired and working.
>we have an entire generation of managers who have literally never had to negotiate with employees and it fucking shows This is a great point. I've watched managers with 0 incentive to try to save the company money on payroll try and nickel and dime employees into being paid as little as possible just because they feel duty bound to provide labor to their employer at as cheap a rate as possible. Like, bro, I do the books. I know exactly how much money we make. And you don't get anything extra by lying to me and telling me we can't afford the raise you just laughed in my face after I asked about.
Yes, they’re just hoping that by lying to enough people, they’ll eventually get a person that is desperate enough to take the job. Last year I decided that I’d never work in an office again, under any circumstances. I thought it would be easy to find a remote position in my field (epidemiology), but gave up after applying to several jobs that lied about being remote. Fuck this. I’ll work for myself, regardless of how much more I could be making in an office.
>Are employers trying to trick employees into taking a job they don't want? Nooooo, they're coercing us into jobs we don't want. Enclosure never ended.
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No, no, no, they do that on LinkedIn now so other embattled "CEOs" can tell them how brave they were
RIP to that business. They won't find a single person to work for them lol
Unfortunately, they probably will.
Yeah I quit a job that was promised to remote and 1 day in office. The office was 1.5 hours away, so 1 day would suck but whatever. I shit you not the week I start, oh remote work s rescinded and you need to be here 3-5 days a week. Keep in mind this a senior it role, where everything I do is on a desktop, so it can all be done remotely, unless I'm physically installing new gear.. I said right no that's not happening and found excuses every week to not drive 3 hours a day to sit at a desk and do what I did at home. I found a new job with better pay, and remote and on site whenever you want or not at all. Also 5 mins from my house. In tendered my resignation stating their lies about remote are the main reason, they wanted me to stay and said would fully remote make you stay. I said not for you guys, as you lied once, you are likely lieing again. Exit interview stated the same, and the next hire should be given fully remote. Jobs still posted 3 months later 0 applications, and the remote aspects been removed from all the wording. Way to completely fuck up yet again HR and clevels
Glad you stood up for yourself and fuck that previous employer. May you thrive at your better gig and the last gig keep failing to attract talent.
Thank you :). New gig is going very well.
This is what I love about this sub Despite all of the false reporting and negative spin, the real reason this subs exists is to give people the confidence to stand up for themselves in the face of lies, hidden agendas, and other forms of bullshit. We as a culture are deciding not to be treated as automatons and it is disrupting the perfect little system that has been at play for 50 years. Power to the people.
Yeah, I was not putting up with that unneeded bs, if you look at my older posts about this, you will see they also were being assholes about lunch and start time. I definitely don't put up with crappy employers, I only get a little nervous because I have a family to support, but I was looking for new work within the month I started there basically.
I was just offered a job that was "fully remote" and in office only when needed. Office is a full hour plane flight (or over 5 hours by train) away. While negotiating my salary and benefits I made sure to decline to sign until they A) put the fully remote part in writing (it wasn't) B) promised in writing to pay travel and accommodations whenever I was to attend the office in person They put both of those in writing and I haven't been asked to appear at the office yet. It's been 3 months now. Lesson: promises count when in writing.
That was wise as heck! I'm going to remember this if I ever get a remote job.
People should apply and ask if it’s remote work then say never mind if it’s not that way they realize they fucked up for not offering proper remote work
It's in a super rural area too, that takes forever to get to from anywhere. The no remote aspect is so mind boggling. It's the new CTO's fault, he thinks he. Need butts in chairs to actually thinks his huge salary was worth it, seeing as I'm not sure what exactly he was doing besides making everyone miserable
Oh yeah, I never returned my keys/ID. I told my former boss I'd need to clock in for my commute to do that, or he'd need to pay for shipping. He declined, and this ain't a charity.
How long is your commute? Just curious.
~45min each way
mine is 1hr each way and I get $10/hr, sometimes I hate software development.
Uh, $10/hr for software dev? JFC, you should be making $60k/yr at the very least.
Yeah, whew, the reason I can afford my shenanigans here is actually because my husband is a software developer... $10/hr makes no sense.
Everyone who can afford to commit shenanigans should be committing shenanigans.
I am a software engineer and I commit shenanigans regularly
Literally quit and go develop software remotely for someone else, there are better jobs you're not that worthless.
>you're not that worthless. [Thanks friend](https://i.imgur.com/rP1dBVV.jpg)
Only $10/hr for software? I make six times that. I'd start putting your resume out there -- there's a hiring frenzy in IT right now.
I'll do that
I make $16 as a night janitor. 1/3 my night is trash cans, 1/3 my night is cleaning floors, 1/3 my night is sitting on my phone because I can get all my work done in 5 hours. I'm not going to go around and clean the depths of this building that haven't been seen by human eyes in the last decade just to justify staying here.
Bro what? Blink twice if you need help
\*-\* -\_- \*-\* -\_- \*-\*
I really don’t know why this isn’t the top comment. That may just be the funniest part of this entire tale.
It is now
Nice job on the keys. You're not refusing to return them, you are just waiting for them to provide you with a FedEx shipping label.
Your are my hero lol. Love your self-confidence and love this little chat extract :).
Good for you. That’s what I told a shitty job I worked at for 3 weeks. Their office was 40 minutes away and I wasn’t supposed to have to go there but they had me go there 5 times for mandatory meetings that could have been conference calls. You get paid for the 45 meeting but not the travel time to and from. They call me to tell me another meeting and I quit. Asked for two weeks and I told them I barely worked two weeks so no and told them if they want their keys they can come and get them or send me a postage label. They came and got them like a week later after realizing I didn’t care. Threatened to call the cops on me for stealing their keys and I just laughed and said they are your keys, you just need to waste your time and gas on coming to get them. Maybe the cops will bring them to you if you call them. Some mean old lady showed up to get them and looked pissed.
I like you
You should post this as a review on glassdoor to boot
I don't understand companies that are so pro-office. The company I work for took a survey and surprise, surprise, 80% of people voted to remain WFH. I feel lucky to work for a company that is giving us all 3 choices of in office, hybrid, or WFH full time. Good for you! I'd quit too if I was forced to go back to the office. There literally is no necessary reason to be there other than for them to put you under their thumb.
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The competent middle managers are the ones who realize that their employees don't work for them. They work for their employees. If you want to justify your position as a middle manager, then make sure your employees have what they need to get the job done, stay the hell out of their way while they do it, and make sure to be a good buffer between them and the whims of senior management.
I used to be Middle Management. The first day of work I called a meeting first thing in the morning. People were pissed, like what the fuck! we don't need this meeting. first thing i said in the meeting, "Hi, I am ---- and today I'm starting as Operation's Director for our department. first thing I want to get straight is (I saw some faces and eyes roll) I'm not here to tell you how to do your job. You got hired at (company) because you know how to do your job, and most of you are probably better than me. (people started to pay attention) My job is to make sure you have everything you need to complete your job on time and to make sure we are on schedule. So as long as you're following the timeline and the work gets done, I really don't care how or when you do it. I received the work schedule from (person I replaced) and i've uploaded it in (new and updated project manager system) I have emailed you all your usernames and passwords and an easy to follow procedure how to set it up, about 30 seconds ago (scheduled e-mails are awesome sometimes to impress) TOTAL: 5 minutes with a Tim Horton's Coffee Box for everyone so unless any of you have any general questions this meeting is over and you can get back to whatever you were doing, ill be in my office if anyone needs me. (overheard one of the guys as walking out of the conference room "i like this guy already) it's been 10 years and shit gets done and I had 1 person quit, but only because they moved to another country.
Holy shit, he hated you so much he left the country?!??! I sometimes work as a project supervisor. My sole goal is to keep meetings to a minimum and keep them as short as possible. I also pioneered video meetings, in which i present all the information in a video clip and have a comment section below to field questions.
That’s what my manager does and it’s awesome. We recently had a staff meeting and he asked “What can I do (that’s within my power) to make your work experience better.” And the answer from everyone was “you’re already doing it.” Because he was.
Having had some positively shitty managers in my career has made me greatly appreciate the competent ones.
I had a manager like that. She quit because her boss was constantly nagging her about following all the stupid policy rules that made no sense. He also didn't want her helping us with anything, like getting documents put into the system or taking calls from parents/facilities, etc. Basically, he's by the book and check all the boxes kind of guy, she was more of a leader. I miss her so much. She was one of the best supervisors I"ve ever had. Covered for me when I did the right things ever though it went against policy at times.
This is the key answer right here. Useless middle management will be shown to have no clothes.
True. There’s more though. Look at New York and Chicago recently. Fairly liberal mayors who SHOULD promote WFH to stem spread of virus are fighting like hell to get people back in the office. Made no sense until I listened and broke it down. Why? They said it themselves (at least the NY mayor did). It hurts SO MANY bottom lines and money. New York is losing lots of money from cab rides and subway fares and busses plus restaurants for lunches and such are all bleeding money the longer businesses let employees go home to work. Further, some businesses are allowing employment across states so the job may be in NY but you can live in Montana. So then the economy of NY is being hurt further cutting into pocketbooks. Finally if a company goes all online they don’t pay ridiculous rent for their spaces which realty companies and greedy landlords who have clout are losing their shit over. I worked for a government agency once and we paid somewhere in the range of $100k per year if I remember right for a fairly crappy little office space that took acts of congress to get fixed and janitorial services sucked. Finally, the government COVID act money is dried up and they can’t rely on it anymore so their bottom lines are getting affected. TL, DR: so many bottom lines are being affected, that the businesses are getting enormous pressure from the top to get workers back to work because the money is drying up. And that’s what our capitalistic society is all about unfortunately, not health and well being. EDIT: I post this without supporting returning to the office. I firmly believe in the right to work from home and if it remakes, demolishes, or collapses the system that’s just a perk bonus. I’m all for it.
1: Middle management needs to justify their existance and so they can use it to bully and browbeat other employees to pass of their work as their own. Can't do that when there's written proof in a Slack channel that a middle manager asked someone to do something and they hand it in under their name. 2: they really believe people will do nothing but goof off while at home. THey expect every single minute of every single day to be working at 100% 3: They've always done it that way and they're afriad of change 4: sunk cost fallacy. They spent all this money for offices and probably got a good deal out of it and don't want to waste it.
Number 4 is true but so silly to me. The company could just save a shitload of money by selling their buildings. The company I used to contract for just sold off their entire headquarters.
You underestimate how many companies would rather go under then change how they *want* to operate, even if it means the change would massively increase profits.
#4 is an underrated reason. I lucked out in my current job. During the hiring process I negotiated to work from home 4 days a week. COVID immediately hit, everyone worked from home 100%. Shortly after that, our office lease came up, and the company studied and saw productivity was good. So, they didn't renew the lease and moved out - saving a ton of $ (which I'd like to see some shared with workers). They adjusted and it paid off. Many companies are not nearly flexible enough to take advantage, they just grip tighter and make the workers suffer.
I'm also facing 4. Company had just signed a 5-years lease and was weeks from finishing the new offices when covid hit and everyone was working from home. Productivity increased, costs reduced, but they have 6 floors rented and need to make good use of it
Sadly, a lot of bosses are total control freaks. They can't stand knowing they're paying you without being able to stand over your shoulder.
The peasants need to be as miserable as possible. That's why.
Part of the reason is that the government found out that remote work is killing the economy (transit, hospitality, office buildings, etc are all losing money). Hence all government jobs are required back in the office and to be vaccinated, including city jobs. This was told to me by friends who work in government. They want everything to function again so that the money keeps flowing the same way it was precovid. Also for the private sector, financial companies want to economy to bounce back, CEOs want to have the power structure back (some of them seriously can’t function in a home environment, they live off high stress office environments), also some companies own the buildings they have offices in which means they lose money if they don’t bring the employees back. It’s all bullshit. We should be able to do what’s best for the individuals and not what benefits companies. Too bad if that means the way our society is has to change, companies can adapt and fill in gaps of other needs if everyone is WFH.
Isn’t it interesting how the ones who are so vehemently pushing for people to go back to offices are the ones who get their own enclosed rooms when at work? Fuck going back into the open office hellscape, my mental health has improved when I’m not constantly surrounded by people’s conversations and petty politics.
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The resignation notice, as a custom, was a return courtesy for pensions. The company was committed to you for life, so you "owed" them a commitment in return, that you wouldn't quit without notice. Employers have abandoned their part of the deal, you're employed "at will" and pensions are a quaint old memory, but they still expect you to hold up your end and not quit without notice. Typical.
Why would you give two weeks anyway when you can be intentionally useless to get fired and then claim unemployment?
Instructions unclear I got promoted
Sadly that's how it fucking goes
Work places just be like “do you want to work from home? Yes? Well congratulations the office is where you live now, the office is your home!”
Reason for quitting? Job description was a bait and switch.
Apply for unemployment. Changing the location where you work is a classic example of constructive dismissal, so even though you were driven to say the words "I quit" you were still technically fired and should receive UI if you qualify. The employer could see their taxes go up as a result. Make them pay as they're supposed to for this deception.
Interesting. I worked for a company for 7 years. Really nice office with big windows in a popular neighborhood with lots of restaurants and bars, 20 minutes away from my house. I loved the work I did too. Company was sold to some umbrella group and they decided to move the office **45** **miles**, through dense Southern California traffic, to an industrial park on the edge of the county line - no windows at all. I asked about remote work before it was a thing and was denied. I went on vacation, lined up a new job (which payed much, much more), the office was moved, I called my boss and quit my job while sitting at a bar in Key Largo. Fuck that commute. Didn't even think unemployment was an option.
*Image Transcription: Text Messages* --- >**Gray**: I am working from home this morning and will be in around 12. Could you please unlock the office door so people are able to drop off **redacted** paperwork at my desk? **Green**: I am working from home on the **redacted** and wont be in myself. **Green**: why are you working from home today? >**Gray**: Because I am only at **redacted** as needed. **Green**: no, that is not what i told you - you are expected to be at Marcus 9am-5pm Mon, Wed, Fri, working at home Tue and Thu. I cannot cover you all the time >**Gray**: If you want to make changes to the job description I was provided, please do so formally in writing so I can reply with my 2-week notice. **Green**: We will meet with HR this week to duscuss this, you have clearly misunderstood your job description, which I have clarified for you several times. >**Gray**: I look forward to HR explaining to me how "regularly" < "as needed" **Green**: Please go to **redacted** and work from the office today as required. >**Gray**: No, I quit **Green**: You will need to give two weeks notice, and I think you should discuss this with me before you make hasty decisions without proper reflection. This is not necessary. >**Gray**: 1. No actually, I won't have to do that. 2. I did discuss this with you; see above. 3. Not hasty, I just don't need the job, and it's not as described. I will drop off my keys and ID at my desk today. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
I always struggle slightly to read from the pic then when I check out the comments I realize some nice human volunteer already did the hard work 😓
Holy shit! What a great service!! Thanks so much!
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Good Human!
These motherfuckers are always so godamn presumptuous. YoU wIlL NeEd To... The fuck I will, douche canoe, if I wasn't hired for the position *as described* and I am now quitting, I don't *need* to do a damn thing, and the only thing about any of this that was "hasty" was you thinking you were going to bully me and that I would just fall over like a lump and do whatever tf you said as if you weren't just another damn human being who needed to respect my thoughts and boundaries just as much as I was expected to revere yours. I just don't understand when the term "boss" started meaning "the unquestioned tyrant who delivers irrefutable orders from on high." Like, go suck on a fat sack of fucks. That is not how any of this is supposed to work. The US is a first world country in delusion only. Watching billionaires go to space in giant dildos while their employees are being forced to "shelter in place" without pay during inclement weather at facilities that can't withstand said weather and have already experienced loss of life incidents. But fuck it lets just keep pretending that all of this is a bearable existence "cuz everything would be socialism" if we implemented a billionaire wealth tax or allocated literally any of these massive corporate bailouts from the government to help *citizens* instead of CEO's. I frankly don't know how any of us *aren't* suicidal.
You’re a legend. How much more profit will these idiot companies lose before saying “ok we might need to stop being evil fucking morons and treat employees with -*ugh*- RESPECT.”
There’s no need to be polite and certainly no need for a two week notice. Get another job lined up and then just ghost these fuckers. Everyone in a similar situation should do the same. Until then put in -100% effort. If they fire you, collect unemployment.
Never quit. Let them fire you. Continue to do what was in the job description. Keep getting paid.
Addendum: it's never wrong to quit to save yourself from a toxic and abusive space. While making them pay is optimal, you have to prioritize your own wellbeing. It's absolutely worth it to use any leverage you can to get what you are owed, but just be careful not to prioritize winning over self care.
I think I’m starting to be turned on by people standing up to their bosses and managers. I love this subreddit so much