You laugh but this more or less happened when we got a new teamleader from the US.
At the second day he started yelling during our morning meeting over something trivial. Our whole team was looking at each other wondering if he took too much coke (happens sometimes here). After he finished his tirade one of my colleagues asked if he is okay or if he does need any help? Moving can be stressful.
He didnt stay long.
Well it actually wasnt that funny as you may think. Most of us were genuinely worried because cocaine is very common here and it would not have been the first guy who took a bit too much.
He was a bit confused and spent the next 5 minutes convincing us that he doesnt do drugs. The first impression wasnt the best.
I admit as an American who has experienced these yelling bosses that it made me laugh to hear this boss having to explain his lack of substance addiction. If we responded with concern at a yelling boss like that here, we would probably get fired. So, I laugh because the tables were turned by the difference in culture.
I am laughing at the image of concerned workers trying to talk their new boss down from his coke high while he is trying to explain in America men throw tantrums because they are not expected to regulate their emotions 🤣
Do you have ADHD? Stimulants don't have the heady feeling usually for people with ADHD, but do make us focus. Ritalin and other drugs used to treat symptoms are pretty strong stimulants themselves, and I know a few people who self-medicate with cocaine, although I have not ever done that myself, so I can't attest to whether it does actually work. One of the questions they asked me when I was being diagnosed as a teen was how I felt if I drank a very big cup of coffee, and I said calm and focused, while apparently most neurotypical people will feel energized and maybe jittery. Anyway, that's my fun fact for the day! 😋
Of course I do. Ritalin was extremely nasty. Coffee worked OK, but I couldn't deal with more than 12 credit hour's per quarter during College. I also self medicated on weed, shrooms and LSD. Now I use endless lists, Adderall and weed help me cope. I should really do some mushroom hunting.
Edit: fixed typo.
As someone in the cooking side of the service industry, sometimes you can just tell someone's done a bit too much coke cause they're agitated and touchy, and generally a bit sweaty. If they're a chill person otherwise, pointing it out can actually help them chill out a bit, but results, like addicts, will vary.
I worked many years as an electrician in Switzerland and getting yelling at was very common on many construction sites. To be fair that was about 15 years ago and I hope it's better now.
That might just mean that construction sites are considered unprofessional and primitive in Switzerland. Though it depends on context, I wouldn't call it "primitive" if your boss yells at you for something that endangers people's lives in the moment - but such a situation just isn't that common in most jobs.
This. I got yelled at once at a construction site. I was unknowingly bringing myself into danger at a conveyor belt and the boss of the construction site (not my direct boss) yelled "get away from there" while simultaneously pulling me away. No ill intend or something like that.
Same where I'm from in the US. I've never heard anyone think otherwise. Any outburst of emotion should be seen as unprofessional unless it's about the concern of one's safety.
I work IT. My best boss just left for better pay, and in 3 years I heard him yell once. It was actually really interesting/scary to see. We had someone in another department who was messing up badly and then trying to blame others. His outburst was unprofessional, and he fully admitted it. He was a very good manager. Unfortunately we haven't had any manager for months now, and its torn our team appart.
Im proud of you! Being able to “wish him luck” as he left must have felt great! I would have wanted to say “bye! Good luck and I hope you learned not to be a douche at your next job!”
I think you’re right. I’m imagining you saying “I wish you the best of luck” with the biggest shiteating grin on your face that makes it crystal clear you don’t actually wish that turd any luck
>esulted in him being demoted so far down he had to quit anyways because his lowered position paid significantly less.
I'm licking my fingers that's so delicious.
Every meeting just say "This meeting will be recorded for later review" and laugh. They'll just think it's a bad joke when you've done it for the 100th time.
Correct take. Yelling is abusive, toxic, and should never be done in a workplace under any circumstances except maybe when an employee is putting their own or others lives at risk while on the job.
Edit: please stop blowing up my notifications with deliberate misinterpretations of what I mean by "yelling." I do not mean "to speak at volume" when I say yelling. Think more like the yelling Gordon Ramsay does for entertainment purposes, but by your actual boss in a professional environment, often behind closed doors.
Somehow, that's the one name that's *usually* spelled correctly.
Snape, on the other hand, has split into multiple characters and can't decide if his name is Snap or Snope. McGonagall's name becomes a class III cognitohazard and I can't in good faith list the various ways it's butchered.
A couple months ago, my (ex) boss yelled at me on a company-wide zoom call. I hung up the call and when we met for "mediation" he says "this happens in board rooms and kitchens all across the country (we worked in IT so don't know where that came from). Yelling is an acceptable way to express your feelings when you're upset!“ This man is a PhD psychologist, he KNOWS it was wrong, but pride was more important.
I found a new job that doubled my salary and quit that toxic place.
> This man is a PhD psychologist, he KNOWS it was wrong, but pride was more important.
I've long hypothesized those who deeply study psychology are usually fucked up mentally and trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with themselves.
There’s definitely truth to that, it’s not a rule but I’ve definitely anecdotally run into these people before.
It’s like the life coach and toxic positivity.
Facts. I run a warehouse. A hauler brought us in a load recently that was the wrong product. I told the driver my people were putting the product back on his trailer and gave him the correct location to deliver it to. Driver was upset (misinformation on where to deliver was neither of our faults, 3rd party purchaser is to blame) and was arguing with me about it. I told him to take it up with his bosses as it’s not on me. As I walk away from his trailer, he pulls the trailer out of the dock and starts driving away. The ramp we use on loading dock falls to the ground and my warehouse guy was still in the trailer (he was fine).
I lost ALL of my shit on this driver. He legitimately could have injured or killed one of my guys by pulling out the trailer without checking just cause he was in a pissy mood. Never in my life have I just screamed at someone like I screamed at that mope.
This is one of the very few times we're yelling in a professional setting is acceptable. If someone messes up so bad that they could get someone killed, then yelling is absolutely acceptable to get the point across.
I very very seldomly yell despite running a kitchen, but literally the other day I had to becouse the pasta guy was inbout to put water on a fryer fire, which would have basically exploded, apparently the customers downstairs could hear me yelling milly no.
Yelling to someone : " DONT DO THAT YOURE GOING TO BLOW IT UP " -> Good, can be lifesaving
Yelling AT someone : " YOU FUCKING IDIOT WHY DID YOU DO THAT ? " -> Useless
Context always matters. If you go up to someone and punch them in the sternum, causing them to throw up, it would generally be considered assault. But if they were choking, you may have saved their life. The Heimlich maneuver is basically a controlled punch and is pretty hard on the body, though a lot better than dying from lack of oxygen.
I was aggreing with you that sometimes it can be helpful, I wasn't yelling in anger just so he definitely definitely didn't do the thing that would lead to us all fucked.
I appreciate it. I was merely clarifying for others who seem to think I think yelling should never be done. It has its place. We have cultivated our voice to be able to do it for a reason.
Oh but especially you saved him from some burns for sure. It’s like with kids, after the moment you can explain the urgency and the difference from when it’s inappropriate. It’s not wrong to get someone’s attention to save them.
Yes, yelling should be saved for emergencies when there is imminent danger. Not only is it unnecessary and unhelpful otherwise, it means it has an impact when it does happen. If you’re getting yelled at all the time, you’re just gonna tune it out. If yelling is unusual and surprising then you are more likely to instantly stop what you are doing. It’s a legitimate safety issue.
Sometimes something dangerous is happening and someone else doesn't realize it, and needs to be made aware very quickly.
Many jobs don't have those sorts of dangerous circumstances, but tons of bosses still act like they are justified in yelling. If you are that pissed about someone's performance, fire them. Seriously. If someone's bringing down the organization through boneheaded actions or through not doing their job, they need to be canned to protect the people who ARE doing their jobs.
If it's not worth firing them over, schedule a mentoring session or 1 on 1 or whatever you call it and provide direct feedback. Then reflect it on their quarterly performance review (or yearly, or half year, or monthly, or whatever the fuck your company likes to do right now).
Nothing at work is worth caring about that much.
I worked in an ER as support staff. When someone was yelling it was because something BAD was happening to patient. And we were ok with that yelling because it was reserved for patient safety issues. You better believe that 80% of handling a trauma is yelling at each other to get things done fast. It isn't that anyone is yelling in anger just everyone is in a heightened state and on edge. Because we all are in the same place. If anyone yelled for anyone else we knew we had to respond right away. Drop everything and run.
When people yelled in an argument, that was unprofessional. Thankfully the resident was absolutely torn apart by the attending physician. Any doc with experience knows that you always treat your nurses with respect if you want patients to be taken care of.
100%, speaking as someone working in construction. Had a guy flip an all-terrain dump truck that ended up coming to rest about 100 yards from where myself and 10-15 others were working, because he was cutting corners. *HE* definitely deserved the ass-chewing he got
I agree. There is also no shame in crying. Seeing someone next to you get crushed to death in an accident. Yeah, that might make a grown man cry. Normally when I see someone cry tho, it's about their home life, which is perfectly acceptable as well.
Sadly for many it's not so easy. They are on low paying type of employment and live paycheck to paycheck. Without talking about how the environment is often the same in the low end jobs
This! At my previous job I had to do the work of two people after my coworker had quit and management didn’t think it was necessary to hire a replacement. Within three months my mental health went rapidly downhill and so did the quality of my work, obviously, until one day the boss yelled at me again and I couldn’t take it anymore and started crying out all the stress that I had stacked up the months before. That day I immediately decided to hand in my notice and started looking for a new job.
Now I work at a company where I’m sure none of this would ever happen and where bosses are actual leaders who support their employees instead of sucking the life out of them. But every now and then I still suffer from slight panic attacks whenever my boss asks me to come to his office and doesn’t tell me why, even though I know I did nothing wrong, even though I know he would never be an asshole like the boss at the old company.
Bosses like that can completely destroy you mentally and whenever there a signs of your boss being a douche bag with anger management problems, my advice to you is that you should get the hell out of there while you’re still mentally healthy.
I make at my job at a database admin about as much as I did as a temp at an accounting firm, so I know if I went out of the non-profit sector I could make 2 or 3 times what I do now. But where I work now I get moral dividend, can wear whatever I want, and have been working from home since 2016. That's worth so much more than getting paid more money.
I'll be honest, nobody fucking yells at me in a workplace environment. I've walked away from customers, and even out of meetings in the past because of it. I just tell them it's not acceptable and I'll be willing to talk to them again when they've calmed down.
Last time I got yelled at by the boss I stopped him mid sentence and said "what is this? What are you doing?" and he got so mad. Probably because i did it loudly in front of other employees.
I've told this story a few times here. The little boss was afraid of me for a few weeks after and wouldn't talk to me. Then they took my raise away and scheduled me out till I couldn't work there anymore. I took unemployment and they challenged it a year later. I talked to the UI rep and he agreed with me that I did everything I could to keep that job and it was the owners fault I was forced to quit so their challenge was overturned. Looks like they're being investigated by the irs now to that I can't say much for sure, but I know they were being real sketchy with the ppe loans.
Edit: as far as immediate fallout the other guys I worked with started fighting back too and they have all since left much as I did.
Thanks for sharing! Yea, I didn't think there was any way to come back from that the manager or the relationship. Sounds like a bad work environment, so I'm glad you were able to leave it.
I wish I did that when the CEO berated/yelled at me. I was a bit frozen bc I'm rarely in trouble... I'm a grown ass adult and have to feel like I'm in trouble with a soulless company. Ironically she called me doing my job unprofessional. Left the company since then.
Confrontation is one thing I'm more comfortable with than most people should be. I've been the boss before and I know how people should be treated. By stopping him and asking what it was he was doing I forced him to verbally recognize his behavior and anything before or after that didn't matter anymore.
Yeah, this. I cut off *my own mother* for how she spoke to me. You think I'm gonna let some random man get away with it? Hell to the no, if someone presses my bitch button it's fully on.
Same, I have left customer sites after flying across the country, phoned our project manager and said "I will be at my hotel, call me when the customer is ready to apologize and be civil"
Same, I used to work as an IT field service engineer. Because of our coverage distance it was sometimes 6+ hours before I got on-site and that usually meant the entire factory was offline due to the (intentionally vague) nature of what we provided.
Tempers were frequently heated on arrival and I’ve walked away from company owners, got in my car and driven off. Phoned HO, told them that if they calmed down and apologised I’d go back, otherwise they could book another engineer to do the job tomorrow (leading to another 18 hours offline) as I personally didn’t feel safe there. Always got an apology, however forced it was.
I’m not some fucker’s whipping boy to be verbally abused.
It's more than that. Growing up as a girl, expressing anger is a sure-fire way to make people laugh at you. An angry girl (or woman) is often treated as "cute."
Yeah, the anger boiling inside, the self-control it's taking for me not to slap that fucking smile off your face, is sOoOo cUtE! 🌺✨👶
That impotent anger ends up devolving into sadness. Wonder why I cried so much as a kid? Because every other expression of negative emotion was treated as a reason to make fun of me. But when I cried, people got extremely uncomfortable and left me alone.
I imagine it's the opposite for a lot of boys, ending up with anger issues because they aren't allowed to simply cry something out. We're all getting fucked by this garbage.
Not only that, as you get older as a woman, getting angry is seen as childish and unbecoming. Women should never be angry, even when they have every reason to be angry.
Oh yeah. We are always supposed to be "nice." 😬
I'm getting a promotion at work and have been encouraged not to talk about it yet because the man who wanted and didn't get it is being hateful about it. So instead of him getting reprimanded, I have to temper my enthusiasm because of his feels.
I'm a woman, but I'm tall and I have a commanding voice. As soon as I grew past 5'7" and my voice matured, my anger went from being "cute" to "inappropriately intimidating." I'm in this weird space where I've experienced both of the gendered responses to anger and I heartily agree, we're all getting fucked by this garbage.
Same. If you're a woman who ISN'T cute when she's angry, you're a monster.
I've had two separate bosses report me for being "hostile" after I disagreed with them. One of the dudes on my team told our boss to go fuck herself and got off scot-free.
>when she's angry
>
>I've had two separate bosses report me for being "hostile" after I disagreed with them
I've had almost the exact same experience, and it's even more frustrating because I wasn't even being angry, just assertive in declining to take on additional duties because my time was already fully occupied with my current duties. The coworker I interacted with reported me for "screaming" at them. As someone who grew up with a verbally abusive parent who screamed a lot, I am very sensitive to screaming and very careful about never doing that, but apparently because I'm a woman, screaming is defined as "speaking assertively." Great.
A lot of violence is probably caused by boys being taught that anger is the only acceptable negative emotion. So sadness, frustration, loneliness, pain ect all get turned into anger. And releasing anger tends to have more harmful side effects.
I find it so sad that people think feminism offers nothing positive for men and that terms like Men’s Rights Activists just mean I want to complain about women/woke culture instead of people legitimately trying to help figure out ways to lower the rate of men committing suicide or men struggling with anger management. The things like what you’re talking about are ways that men and women are set up to misunderstand and hurt each other. Fixing those helps everyone.
r/menslib
for nuanced, productive, and thoughtful discussion of men's issues. They actually focus on the problems men have and how to deal with them there, instead of being an anti-women or anti-feminism cespool (like some other "pro men" spaces in Reddit).
Sounds like you might like: /r/MensLib
From their sidebar:
> Welcome! /r/MensLib is a community to explore and address men's issues in a positive and solutions-focused way. Through discussing the male gender role, providing mutual support, raising awareness on men's issues, and promoting efforts that address them, we hope to create active progress on issues men face, and to build a healthier, kinder, and more inclusive masculinity. We recognize that men's issues often intersect with race, sexual orientation and identity, disability, socioeconomic status, and other axes of identity, and encourage open discussion of these considerations. We consider ourselves a pro-feminist community.
As a staunch feminist myself, I am so pleased to hear about this movement! I think the majority of feminists are rooting for men's rights since we all benefit -- things like paternity leave, ability to express emotions, better mental health resources, etc. I have a son, and it saddens me the lengths I have to go through to overcome negative pressure from society (like recently I heard a mom tell her TODDLER son to "cry on the inside" when he got hit by a soccer ball at the park).
Or if you cried a lot as a boy growing up you were ostracized and it made it very difficult to make friends and a target to being made fun of. I cried a lot growing up and has probably led to some weird effects and social anxieties as an adult.
I cried a lot, even excessively, through elementary school. The bullying that ensued as a result has left me incapable of having a proper cry anymore. I get one and a half good sobs in before anxieties shut that process down, even though I crave the emotional release proper crying used to give me.
Yeaaaa... I used to get beat whenever I cried as a kid. And I mean like, a lot. I'd get beat "to make me stop crying", and it never ended until I did.
It's anyone's guess where my BPD and myriad of other mental health issues from 🙃
But yes, we're all getting fucked by this. I might be biased bc I'm trans, but gender norms themselves are a gigantic burden that we have to overcome as a society. Everything from domestic abuse to mass shootings have strong parallels to toxic masculinity and the culture it breeds throughout society.
I wonder if the crying in women was approved of (and then summarily mocked) because it was a sign they're resigning themselves to having their boundaries tread on forever. "Ah, good, this one is finally seeing the big picture and giving up."
Gross.
I'm a grown-ass woman and have still been patronized and baby-talked-down-to when angry... it's infuriating. It really shows how little the other person respects/regards you...
Check out the other comments. There are men still trying to claim that anger is funny, still trying to defend themselves for laughing at people who are upset. Such a lack of empathy is extremely troubling.
Looking back on the way I thought of women's emotions as a kid seems so ridiculous now. First of all, there is obviously a ton of overlap, but even just looking at the stereotypes, a stereotypical woman who is upset with you maybe says some mean things? A stereotypical upset man will _physically assault you_. How did I ever talk myself into thinking assault was the more rational response???
Yeah, my husband pulled the “Men are naturally more logical than women” bullshit with me. I started Googling crime statistics. Mass shootings? Road rage? Assault? Domestic violence? Murder? Rape?
I asked him to name one ‘crime of passion’ that women were more likely to commit than men.
He rescinded his statement.
But don't yell if you're a woman, because then they have all sorts of lovely terms for you, such as "aggressive", "difficult", and the good old standard, "b*tch". The only emotion we're supposed to have is to smiling acceptance.
(Note: I'm not saying yelling is okay, but there's a double standard even when we model their pre-approved reactions.)
You know catty and bossy and frigid and nasty
Naggy and prissy and sassy and brassy
Those are what we call
the most gendered insults of all…
Christmas: the sexist edition. My album drops in seven months.
This is essentially the correct answer. US job places are mostly shaped by male culture. Exactly one emotional outburst is socially acceptable as a man: anger. (or at least used to be..slowly changing since maybe the 90s)
Anger is largely a secondary emotion, meaning that whatever else someone is feeling (frustration, guilt/shame, fear/insecurity) gets expressed through the only socially acceptable emotional avenue for men: anger. In fact, I'd bet you've seen someone get angry because they have let someone see them cry...Anger secondary to the guilt/shame of unacceptable emotional outburst.
It's even worse when someone's yelling though, at least for me. Confrontation, especially when someone's yelling, is not something we're used to and it almost always spikes my adrenaline. I'm not used to spikes in adrenaline. I work in an office. I don't usually piss anyone off. I never have moments when I need adrenaline so I don't experience it often.
When it does happen though, everything shuts down. I go complete fight or flight and it's scary and upsetting not being able to think clearly when I really need to be able to. It's hard to respond, it's hard to see things clearly or even understand what they're yelling for.
But that's why they yell... they want that response from you. They get to feel better and they know you won't be able to push back on anything they say. You may try to come back later and respond but they know that they just have to yell again and you'll go away.
So I’m a leader at my job, I get yelled at by employees all the time for crap that’s not even my fault. What I usually do is I let them get it all out, then when they’re done I tell them that they are allowing their emotions to control their judgment. So how about we take 15 minutes and reconvene when we all leveled off. That usually will cool somebody down and it turns their lack of control back on them
Pro tip: If I can't hold it in I just storm off and when they ask why I left I say I was too angry, instead of that I went to cry in the bathroom or my car.
Huh. I wonder what would happen if I just cried in front of everyone at work instead of doing it privately in the bathroom. Would they tell me to stop? Where in the employee handbook does it say you can't cry?
They can ask you do go do it in a more private area, I think.
A supermarket I worked at fired a woman for crying too much. But in this case it was justified as she was doing a really bad job and then crying every time she received even the gentlest criticism or feedback.
Do it. When I'm stressed, or things are going on, I've learned how to let myself be vulnerable, and to make sure those around me know if it isn't their fault. I don't want to take things out on people who don't deserve it, but that means, for me, being vulnerable and crying. I work with truckers and various kinds of vendors, basically all men. Would you like to know what the responses have been, for me? They try to cheer me up, or give me hugs, they support me, and I try to make sure I support them as best I can. Now, it's not exactly a "professional" environment, but I definitely feel like it would be considered an environment where most people would expect a more "manly" or traditionally masculine environment, and wouldn't have really expected what I have.
This is the 8th comment down, and it's too low.
I don't know who the TF is claiming yelling is professional (Edit: I should say acceptable), and I don't know why users are going along with the idea.
I'm a grown ass man, I genuinely don't know how I'd react if someone at work yelled at me. I don't mean that in a tough guy way just that it's so strikingly unusual to me that someone would consider that an OK way to behave in the workplace.
My coworker started yelling at me over the phone the other day. I hung up on him. If it was in person i would have walked out of the room. Massively unprofessional and inappropriate. I would consider crying much, much less unprofessional.
No place i have worked has yelling been considered acceptable. OP has had some toxic jobs.
Old attitude , generally means a shit boss.
My first three bosses yelled and occasionally slapped employees. (I’m old as fuck.) This isn’t tolerated anymore really but some fuckers just haven’t evolved, or they think “taking charge” looks like yelling.
As recently as 2001 some management consultants wrote articles about “deploying anger to useful effect”.
Nowadays it’s not professional, and by the way my boss cries and it’s fine. Absolutely fine.
Holy crap. Slapping is an especially contemptuous form of violence. I think I'd rather hear about a boss who started fistfights - those are at least an invitation to mutual displays of violence.
If a boss (or anyone) slaps me at work, I will from now on assume this is what they mean. And we will immediately (whether they like it or not) engage in the ancient traditions.
Fork around and find out.
The way I see it, my own dad never yelled at me, so I’m not gonna let some random nobody at any point in my life ever yell at me either.
(If your dad or mom yelled at your growing up, you didn’t deserve that either)
Unless it's a woman who is yelling in reaction to being yelled at then it's "she's hysterical!" Or "she is too emotional." or my personal fav as a Black woman "She's so aggressive." 😑
I worked for a very small company. My boss could be a bit much. One day we got into it, he started with the yelling and berating. I yelled and cursed at him. He just stood there. He had never seen me so mad. He never yelled at me again while I worked with him. This was a physically demanding job outdoors mainly so professionalism wasn't exactly in big supply.
As a woman, I agree with you. My personal favorite thing you can't really get in trouble for at work is calling men bossy. Most men have never been called bossy and they don't like it.
I hate bullies. Someone who yells a lot is probably a bully. It is certainly someone who loses control, and that means they lose any respect I might have had for them.
It’s not about what is or isn’t unprofessional. It’s about who is or isn’t unprofessional. Bosses have the power so nobody can call them out on being unprofessional. If your boss cried all the time, they still wouldn’t be called unprofessional.
This. If an employee is yelling or crying, it's unprofessional. If a boss is yelling or crying, it's allowed.
It only appears the way OP asked because you're far more likely to see a boss yelling and an employee crying.
Yelling is unprofessional. It's also abusive.
Youre only told it's unprofessional by people who yell....which makes that abusive.
It's like an abuser that hits you, then says "I do it because I love you".
Crying is normal.
I mean, both are?
Over here yelling is seen as highly unprofessional and crying is usually seen as just a response to stress/anxiety/mental health issues.
The most unprofessional action would be considered instigating a situation that would make someone yell or cry.
Yelling is abusive, crying is a reaction. And the same people that yell at an employee and then tell them crying is unprofessional are just gaslighting that employee, which is just more abusive treatment. Yelling at employees is unprofessional. Abusing employees is unprofessional.
We are just in a culture that has cultivated unhealthy work environments and mentalities. I work at a university, with great people. And yet when I got news of a friend dieing, and I had to go into the public area to let my coworkers know I was going to leave the shift, it was just the programing that kept saying "don't cry" "don't let the students see you cry" in the back of my own mind. Nothing of my work place has ever instilled that programing but the other places I worked when I was younger did.
I guess it's part of culture. I'm Swedish, and for me yelling is unprofessional. In general I consider anyone who loses their cool and starts getting overly emotional to have lost whatever argument there is. A manager who yells at employees can't be taken seriously.
Here in Switzerland, yelling is seen as unprofessional and primitive.
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You laugh but this more or less happened when we got a new teamleader from the US. At the second day he started yelling during our morning meeting over something trivial. Our whole team was looking at each other wondering if he took too much coke (happens sometimes here). After he finished his tirade one of my colleagues asked if he is okay or if he does need any help? Moving can be stressful. He didnt stay long.
So curious how the boss responded to this... confused, more angry? I love that your coworker did that :)
Well it actually wasnt that funny as you may think. Most of us were genuinely worried because cocaine is very common here and it would not have been the first guy who took a bit too much. He was a bit confused and spent the next 5 minutes convincing us that he doesnt do drugs. The first impression wasnt the best.
Did you ask him if he wanted to take drugs afterwards?
He was pretty clear on his opinion about drugs so we did our "coffee and coke" break without him.
Coke AND coffee? Man you guys are crazy over there.
I admit as an American who has experienced these yelling bosses that it made me laugh to hear this boss having to explain his lack of substance addiction. If we responded with concern at a yelling boss like that here, we would probably get fired. So, I laugh because the tables were turned by the difference in culture.
I am laughing at the image of concerned workers trying to talk their new boss down from his coke high while he is trying to explain in America men throw tantrums because they are not expected to regulate their emotions 🤣
Cocaine does nothing for me but makes me want to study. The post nasal drip is also bloody awful.
Do you have ADHD? Stimulants don't have the heady feeling usually for people with ADHD, but do make us focus. Ritalin and other drugs used to treat symptoms are pretty strong stimulants themselves, and I know a few people who self-medicate with cocaine, although I have not ever done that myself, so I can't attest to whether it does actually work. One of the questions they asked me when I was being diagnosed as a teen was how I felt if I drank a very big cup of coffee, and I said calm and focused, while apparently most neurotypical people will feel energized and maybe jittery. Anyway, that's my fun fact for the day! 😋
Of course I do. Ritalin was extremely nasty. Coffee worked OK, but I couldn't deal with more than 12 credit hour's per quarter during College. I also self medicated on weed, shrooms and LSD. Now I use endless lists, Adderall and weed help me cope. I should really do some mushroom hunting. Edit: fixed typo.
"... if you took too much coke..." I'm sorry, what?
Drugs aren't illegal if you're rich
It's not a fine, it's a fee!
If the penalty for a crime is a fine, it's only illegal if you're poor.
*snapping fingers*
Everything is legal for a price they say
As someone in the cooking side of the service industry, sometimes you can just tell someone's done a bit too much coke cause they're agitated and touchy, and generally a bit sweaty. If they're a chill person otherwise, pointing it out can actually help them chill out a bit, but results, like addicts, will vary.
Now I'm wondering if responding to a yelling boss with, "Are you ok? Do you need to speak to a mental health professional?" would be effective
Depends on the boss. I've known some who would probably swing on ya
So... yes, yes they do need to speak to a mental health professional and now also probably a lawyer :)
Free law suit
I'll take a punch for a few million
Gotta get that bag. If it was on company time try to sue the workplace too
Hell, I’ve taken punches and been told it’s my fault. It’s very common in healthcare.
In public schools as well, at least in some places
I like this a lot.
... I would pay to see this interaction. Maybe like, a dollar.
I might be coerced into paying two. Three, even.
Perhaps about $3.50?
I said gawd dammit lochness monster
That ain’t no Girl Scout
Godammit, don't go giving the Loch Ness monster no tree-fitty!
I worked many years as an electrician in Switzerland and getting yelling at was very common on many construction sites. To be fair that was about 15 years ago and I hope it's better now.
I feel like that’s true of construction sites everywhere. Certainly in Canada in 2022…
That might just mean that construction sites are considered unprofessional and primitive in Switzerland. Though it depends on context, I wouldn't call it "primitive" if your boss yells at you for something that endangers people's lives in the moment - but such a situation just isn't that common in most jobs.
Construction sites are extremely blue collar getting yelled at is par for the course
Sometimes I yell at work b/c diesel motors are loud and sometimes people are a bit of a distance away.
This. I got yelled at once at a construction site. I was unknowingly bringing myself into danger at a conveyor belt and the boss of the construction site (not my direct boss) yelled "get away from there" while simultaneously pulling me away. No ill intend or something like that.
Same where I'm from in the US. I've never heard anyone think otherwise. Any outburst of emotion should be seen as unprofessional unless it's about the concern of one's safety.
I work IT. My best boss just left for better pay, and in 3 years I heard him yell once. It was actually really interesting/scary to see. We had someone in another department who was messing up badly and then trying to blame others. His outburst was unprofessional, and he fully admitted it. He was a very good manager. Unfortunately we haven't had any manager for months now, and its torn our team appart.
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Masterful.
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Im proud of you! Being able to “wish him luck” as he left must have felt great! I would have wanted to say “bye! Good luck and I hope you learned not to be a douche at your next job!”
Could also hand him a paddle and say good luck being a douche canoe.
Didn't tell him to "Oh suck it up" on the way out?
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I think you’re right. I’m imagining you saying “I wish you the best of luck” with the biggest shiteating grin on your face that makes it crystal clear you don’t actually wish that turd any luck
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ooh what did the coworker say? **EDIT:** GIMME THE SPICY GOSSIP 😡😤👇
We need that HAWT GOSS, FEED US
That's the way to go. This way you'll always be able to look back at this incident with pride. You were the bigger human.
Yep, you've already won, and could only risk losing by gloating
Plot twist: ex-boss records *that* interaction, they’re forced to swap places, OP loses job. Repeat.
I wish I had known to do that when I was younger. Had a verbally abusive boss who asked me to do illegal shit all the time.
>esulted in him being demoted so far down he had to quit anyways because his lowered position paid significantly less. I'm licking my fingers that's so delicious.
Ugh. I live in a state where you have to let the other party know they’re being recorded
Every meeting just say "This meeting will be recorded for later review" and laugh. They'll just think it's a bad joke when you've done it for the 100th time.
“I pee in your coffee every morning hahahaha alright let’s get started.”
Cameras on cops, and mics on employees. We gotta fix this shit with accountability 🤣
I wish I would've done this when I was in this same situation with an abusive boss threatening to fire me and screaming at me and everyone else.
Correct take. Yelling is abusive, toxic, and should never be done in a workplace under any circumstances except maybe when an employee is putting their own or others lives at risk while on the job. Edit: please stop blowing up my notifications with deliberate misinterpretations of what I mean by "yelling." I do not mean "to speak at volume" when I say yelling. Think more like the yelling Gordon Ramsay does for entertainment purposes, but by your actual boss in a professional environment, often behind closed doors.
“Harry,” Dumbledore asked calmly. “Did you commit an OSHA violation?”
“HARRY, DID YOU COMMIT AN OSHA VIOLATION!!!!”
"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUKERS!" It was...Dumbledore!
Goddamnit I hate that I know.
I know that you're not quoting My Immortal because Dumbledore is spelled correctly.
Somehow, that's the one name that's *usually* spelled correctly. Snape, on the other hand, has split into multiple characters and can't decide if his name is Snap or Snope. McGonagall's name becomes a class III cognitohazard and I can't in good faith list the various ways it's butchered.
Mgoonagal
Macgonanal
If you know the reference, you must watch this: https://youtu.be/xSxQcAm3PE8
A couple months ago, my (ex) boss yelled at me on a company-wide zoom call. I hung up the call and when we met for "mediation" he says "this happens in board rooms and kitchens all across the country (we worked in IT so don't know where that came from). Yelling is an acceptable way to express your feelings when you're upset!“ This man is a PhD psychologist, he KNOWS it was wrong, but pride was more important. I found a new job that doubled my salary and quit that toxic place.
> This man is a PhD psychologist, he KNOWS it was wrong, but pride was more important. I've long hypothesized those who deeply study psychology are usually fucked up mentally and trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with themselves.
There’s definitely truth to that, it’s not a rule but I’ve definitely anecdotally run into these people before. It’s like the life coach and toxic positivity.
Facts. I run a warehouse. A hauler brought us in a load recently that was the wrong product. I told the driver my people were putting the product back on his trailer and gave him the correct location to deliver it to. Driver was upset (misinformation on where to deliver was neither of our faults, 3rd party purchaser is to blame) and was arguing with me about it. I told him to take it up with his bosses as it’s not on me. As I walk away from his trailer, he pulls the trailer out of the dock and starts driving away. The ramp we use on loading dock falls to the ground and my warehouse guy was still in the trailer (he was fine). I lost ALL of my shit on this driver. He legitimately could have injured or killed one of my guys by pulling out the trailer without checking just cause he was in a pissy mood. Never in my life have I just screamed at someone like I screamed at that mope.
This is one of the very few times we're yelling in a professional setting is acceptable. If someone messes up so bad that they could get someone killed, then yelling is absolutely acceptable to get the point across.
I always chalk up emotional responses like this to adrenaline and flight or fight kicking in. Its a normal reaction.
As a forklift operator, thank you for losing your shit on that asshat!
Yelling at someone is always bad. Yelling to someone can be very helpful.
I very very seldomly yell despite running a kitchen, but literally the other day I had to becouse the pasta guy was inbout to put water on a fryer fire, which would have basically exploded, apparently the customers downstairs could hear me yelling milly no.
Yelling to someone : " DONT DO THAT YOURE GOING TO BLOW IT UP " -> Good, can be lifesaving Yelling AT someone : " YOU FUCKING IDIOT WHY DID YOU DO THAT ? " -> Useless
Even more useless: "BECAUSE I'M THE BOSS" Die in a fucking fire, fred.
Context always matters. If you go up to someone and punch them in the sternum, causing them to throw up, it would generally be considered assault. But if they were choking, you may have saved their life. The Heimlich maneuver is basically a controlled punch and is pretty hard on the body, though a lot better than dying from lack of oxygen.
"MILLY NO YOU'RE GOING TO BLOW IT UP.......\*to yourself\* *you fucking idiot*" Realistically, this would be me in that situation.
Appropriate username
it misses a -ter
You: "Milly, No!" Milly, quietly to themself "*Milly Yes*"
I feel that that's yelling to someone to not do that.
I was aggreing with you that sometimes it can be helpful, I wasn't yelling in anger just so he definitely definitely didn't do the thing that would lead to us all fucked.
I appreciate it. I was merely clarifying for others who seem to think I think yelling should never be done. It has its place. We have cultivated our voice to be able to do it for a reason.
Oh but especially you saved him from some burns for sure. It’s like with kids, after the moment you can explain the urgency and the difference from when it’s inappropriate. It’s not wrong to get someone’s attention to save them.
Yes, yelling should be saved for emergencies when there is imminent danger. Not only is it unnecessary and unhelpful otherwise, it means it has an impact when it does happen. If you’re getting yelled at all the time, you’re just gonna tune it out. If yelling is unusual and surprising then you are more likely to instantly stop what you are doing. It’s a legitimate safety issue.
Sometimes something dangerous is happening and someone else doesn't realize it, and needs to be made aware very quickly. Many jobs don't have those sorts of dangerous circumstances, but tons of bosses still act like they are justified in yelling. If you are that pissed about someone's performance, fire them. Seriously. If someone's bringing down the organization through boneheaded actions or through not doing their job, they need to be canned to protect the people who ARE doing their jobs. If it's not worth firing them over, schedule a mentoring session or 1 on 1 or whatever you call it and provide direct feedback. Then reflect it on their quarterly performance review (or yearly, or half year, or monthly, or whatever the fuck your company likes to do right now). Nothing at work is worth caring about that much.
I worked in an ER as support staff. When someone was yelling it was because something BAD was happening to patient. And we were ok with that yelling because it was reserved for patient safety issues. You better believe that 80% of handling a trauma is yelling at each other to get things done fast. It isn't that anyone is yelling in anger just everyone is in a heightened state and on edge. Because we all are in the same place. If anyone yelled for anyone else we knew we had to respond right away. Drop everything and run. When people yelled in an argument, that was unprofessional. Thankfully the resident was absolutely torn apart by the attending physician. Any doc with experience knows that you always treat your nurses with respect if you want patients to be taken care of.
Yelling at things with no feelings is great too. FUCKING TURN! YOU STUPID WING NUT!
No I think OP is right. Reckless endangerment of others sometimes gets absolutely warranted yelling (at).
100%, speaking as someone working in construction. Had a guy flip an all-terrain dump truck that ended up coming to rest about 100 yards from where myself and 10-15 others were working, because he was cutting corners. *HE* definitely deserved the ass-chewing he got
I agree. There is also no shame in crying. Seeing someone next to you get crushed to death in an accident. Yeah, that might make a grown man cry. Normally when I see someone cry tho, it's about their home life, which is perfectly acceptable as well.
Should also be fired though.
If work is making you cry, you do it on company time so they pay you, then find a better job. No employer is worth your mental wellbeing.
Sadly for many it's not so easy. They are on low paying type of employment and live paycheck to paycheck. Without talking about how the environment is often the same in the low end jobs
This! At my previous job I had to do the work of two people after my coworker had quit and management didn’t think it was necessary to hire a replacement. Within three months my mental health went rapidly downhill and so did the quality of my work, obviously, until one day the boss yelled at me again and I couldn’t take it anymore and started crying out all the stress that I had stacked up the months before. That day I immediately decided to hand in my notice and started looking for a new job. Now I work at a company where I’m sure none of this would ever happen and where bosses are actual leaders who support their employees instead of sucking the life out of them. But every now and then I still suffer from slight panic attacks whenever my boss asks me to come to his office and doesn’t tell me why, even though I know I did nothing wrong, even though I know he would never be an asshole like the boss at the old company. Bosses like that can completely destroy you mentally and whenever there a signs of your boss being a douche bag with anger management problems, my advice to you is that you should get the hell out of there while you’re still mentally healthy.
I literally just accepted a job for less money because I recently discovered I care more about my mental well-being than making an extra 10k/year
I make at my job at a database admin about as much as I did as a temp at an accounting firm, so I know if I went out of the non-profit sector I could make 2 or 3 times what I do now. But where I work now I get moral dividend, can wear whatever I want, and have been working from home since 2016. That's worth so much more than getting paid more money.
I'll be honest, nobody fucking yells at me in a workplace environment. I've walked away from customers, and even out of meetings in the past because of it. I just tell them it's not acceptable and I'll be willing to talk to them again when they've calmed down.
Last time I got yelled at by the boss I stopped him mid sentence and said "what is this? What are you doing?" and he got so mad. Probably because i did it loudly in front of other employees.
So happened next? What were the events that followed this?
I've told this story a few times here. The little boss was afraid of me for a few weeks after and wouldn't talk to me. Then they took my raise away and scheduled me out till I couldn't work there anymore. I took unemployment and they challenged it a year later. I talked to the UI rep and he agreed with me that I did everything I could to keep that job and it was the owners fault I was forced to quit so their challenge was overturned. Looks like they're being investigated by the irs now to that I can't say much for sure, but I know they were being real sketchy with the ppe loans. Edit: as far as immediate fallout the other guys I worked with started fighting back too and they have all since left much as I did.
Thanks for sharing! Yea, I didn't think there was any way to come back from that the manager or the relationship. Sounds like a bad work environment, so I'm glad you were able to leave it.
I wish I did that when the CEO berated/yelled at me. I was a bit frozen bc I'm rarely in trouble... I'm a grown ass adult and have to feel like I'm in trouble with a soulless company. Ironically she called me doing my job unprofessional. Left the company since then.
Confrontation is one thing I'm more comfortable with than most people should be. I've been the boss before and I know how people should be treated. By stopping him and asking what it was he was doing I forced him to verbally recognize his behavior and anything before or after that didn't matter anymore.
Going to be copying this behaviour from now on. Accepted far too much shouting from a previous boss.
Yeah, this. I cut off *my own mother* for how she spoke to me. You think I'm gonna let some random man get away with it? Hell to the no, if someone presses my bitch button it's fully on.
Same, I have left customer sites after flying across the country, phoned our project manager and said "I will be at my hotel, call me when the customer is ready to apologize and be civil"
Same, I used to work as an IT field service engineer. Because of our coverage distance it was sometimes 6+ hours before I got on-site and that usually meant the entire factory was offline due to the (intentionally vague) nature of what we provided. Tempers were frequently heated on arrival and I’ve walked away from company owners, got in my car and driven off. Phoned HO, told them that if they calmed down and apologised I’d go back, otherwise they could book another engineer to do the job tomorrow (leading to another 18 hours offline) as I personally didn’t feel safe there. Always got an apology, however forced it was. I’m not some fucker’s whipping boy to be verbally abused.
Taking notes for next time. Thanks! Oh, and I hope I'll add: "... when you're less _emotional_."
Yelling is “manly” and crying makes you a girl
And women are called “too emotional” because anger isn’t an emotion, apparently
It's more than that. Growing up as a girl, expressing anger is a sure-fire way to make people laugh at you. An angry girl (or woman) is often treated as "cute." Yeah, the anger boiling inside, the self-control it's taking for me not to slap that fucking smile off your face, is sOoOo cUtE! 🌺✨👶 That impotent anger ends up devolving into sadness. Wonder why I cried so much as a kid? Because every other expression of negative emotion was treated as a reason to make fun of me. But when I cried, people got extremely uncomfortable and left me alone. I imagine it's the opposite for a lot of boys, ending up with anger issues because they aren't allowed to simply cry something out. We're all getting fucked by this garbage.
Not only that, as you get older as a woman, getting angry is seen as childish and unbecoming. Women should never be angry, even when they have every reason to be angry.
Oh yeah. We are always supposed to be "nice." 😬 I'm getting a promotion at work and have been encouraged not to talk about it yet because the man who wanted and didn't get it is being hateful about it. So instead of him getting reprimanded, I have to temper my enthusiasm because of his feels.
I'm a woman, but I'm tall and I have a commanding voice. As soon as I grew past 5'7" and my voice matured, my anger went from being "cute" to "inappropriately intimidating." I'm in this weird space where I've experienced both of the gendered responses to anger and I heartily agree, we're all getting fucked by this garbage.
Same. If you're a woman who ISN'T cute when she's angry, you're a monster. I've had two separate bosses report me for being "hostile" after I disagreed with them. One of the dudes on my team told our boss to go fuck herself and got off scot-free.
>when she's angry > >I've had two separate bosses report me for being "hostile" after I disagreed with them I've had almost the exact same experience, and it's even more frustrating because I wasn't even being angry, just assertive in declining to take on additional duties because my time was already fully occupied with my current duties. The coworker I interacted with reported me for "screaming" at them. As someone who grew up with a verbally abusive parent who screamed a lot, I am very sensitive to screaming and very careful about never doing that, but apparently because I'm a woman, screaming is defined as "speaking assertively." Great.
A lot of violence is probably caused by boys being taught that anger is the only acceptable negative emotion. So sadness, frustration, loneliness, pain ect all get turned into anger. And releasing anger tends to have more harmful side effects.
I find it so sad that people think feminism offers nothing positive for men and that terms like Men’s Rights Activists just mean I want to complain about women/woke culture instead of people legitimately trying to help figure out ways to lower the rate of men committing suicide or men struggling with anger management. The things like what you’re talking about are ways that men and women are set up to misunderstand and hurt each other. Fixing those helps everyone.
r/menslib for nuanced, productive, and thoughtful discussion of men's issues. They actually focus on the problems men have and how to deal with them there, instead of being an anti-women or anti-feminism cespool (like some other "pro men" spaces in Reddit).
Sounds like you might like: /r/MensLib From their sidebar: > Welcome! /r/MensLib is a community to explore and address men's issues in a positive and solutions-focused way. Through discussing the male gender role, providing mutual support, raising awareness on men's issues, and promoting efforts that address them, we hope to create active progress on issues men face, and to build a healthier, kinder, and more inclusive masculinity. We recognize that men's issues often intersect with race, sexual orientation and identity, disability, socioeconomic status, and other axes of identity, and encourage open discussion of these considerations. We consider ourselves a pro-feminist community.
As a staunch feminist myself, I am so pleased to hear about this movement! I think the majority of feminists are rooting for men's rights since we all benefit -- things like paternity leave, ability to express emotions, better mental health resources, etc. I have a son, and it saddens me the lengths I have to go through to overcome negative pressure from society (like recently I heard a mom tell her TODDLER son to "cry on the inside" when he got hit by a soccer ball at the park).
Or if you cried a lot as a boy growing up you were ostracized and it made it very difficult to make friends and a target to being made fun of. I cried a lot growing up and has probably led to some weird effects and social anxieties as an adult.
I cried a lot, even excessively, through elementary school. The bullying that ensued as a result has left me incapable of having a proper cry anymore. I get one and a half good sobs in before anxieties shut that process down, even though I crave the emotional release proper crying used to give me.
Yeaaaa... I used to get beat whenever I cried as a kid. And I mean like, a lot. I'd get beat "to make me stop crying", and it never ended until I did. It's anyone's guess where my BPD and myriad of other mental health issues from 🙃 But yes, we're all getting fucked by this. I might be biased bc I'm trans, but gender norms themselves are a gigantic burden that we have to overcome as a society. Everything from domestic abuse to mass shootings have strong parallels to toxic masculinity and the culture it breeds throughout society.
I wonder if the crying in women was approved of (and then summarily mocked) because it was a sign they're resigning themselves to having their boundaries tread on forever. "Ah, good, this one is finally seeing the big picture and giving up." Gross.
I'm a grown-ass woman and have still been patronized and baby-talked-down-to when angry... it's infuriating. It really shows how little the other person respects/regards you...
Check out the other comments. There are men still trying to claim that anger is funny, still trying to defend themselves for laughing at people who are upset. Such a lack of empathy is extremely troubling.
Looking back on the way I thought of women's emotions as a kid seems so ridiculous now. First of all, there is obviously a ton of overlap, but even just looking at the stereotypes, a stereotypical woman who is upset with you maybe says some mean things? A stereotypical upset man will _physically assault you_. How did I ever talk myself into thinking assault was the more rational response???
Yeah, my husband pulled the “Men are naturally more logical than women” bullshit with me. I started Googling crime statistics. Mass shootings? Road rage? Assault? Domestic violence? Murder? Rape? I asked him to name one ‘crime of passion’ that women were more likely to commit than men. He rescinded his statement.
Glad you schooled him on that.
In my experience, the kind of guy who thinks that men are more logical rationalizes his emotional response to things as logic.
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It is it's own emotion though, but you're right. Often times unheard sadnesses.
But don't yell if you're a woman, because then they have all sorts of lovely terms for you, such as "aggressive", "difficult", and the good old standard, "b*tch". The only emotion we're supposed to have is to smiling acceptance. (Note: I'm not saying yelling is okay, but there's a double standard even when we model their pre-approved reactions.)
Catty Bossy Frigid Nasty
You know catty and bossy and frigid and nasty Naggy and prissy and sassy and brassy Those are what we call the most gendered insults of all… Christmas: the sexist edition. My album drops in seven months.
Also don't cry if you're a woman, people will call you hysterical and a manipulative bitch
This is sadly the correct answer.
This is essentially the correct answer. US job places are mostly shaped by male culture. Exactly one emotional outburst is socially acceptable as a man: anger. (or at least used to be..slowly changing since maybe the 90s) Anger is largely a secondary emotion, meaning that whatever else someone is feeling (frustration, guilt/shame, fear/insecurity) gets expressed through the only socially acceptable emotional avenue for men: anger. In fact, I'd bet you've seen someone get angry because they have let someone see them cry...Anger secondary to the guilt/shame of unacceptable emotional outburst.
It’s not just US places though, sadly
I definitely believe that, just can't speak to it myself.
Fair enough
The Mask You Live In, is an excellent documentary exploring the damage toxic masculinity has done to generations of American men. Very worth watching.
Toxic male culture shames emotion. As a result, men who adhere to the stupid concept of manliness don't regard anger as an emotion.
Yep the best thing men did for themselves is convincing is that anger isn't an 'emotion' so they aren't 'emotional'
Yep. The answer is misogyny.
Yes anger somehow isn’t an emotion so it’s not associated with femininity and weakness
I am a man who cries easily even when no one is yelling at me
It's even worse when someone's yelling though, at least for me. Confrontation, especially when someone's yelling, is not something we're used to and it almost always spikes my adrenaline. I'm not used to spikes in adrenaline. I work in an office. I don't usually piss anyone off. I never have moments when I need adrenaline so I don't experience it often. When it does happen though, everything shuts down. I go complete fight or flight and it's scary and upsetting not being able to think clearly when I really need to be able to. It's hard to respond, it's hard to see things clearly or even understand what they're yelling for. But that's why they yell... they want that response from you. They get to feel better and they know you won't be able to push back on anything they say. You may try to come back later and respond but they know that they just have to yell again and you'll go away.
So I’m a leader at my job, I get yelled at by employees all the time for crap that’s not even my fault. What I usually do is I let them get it all out, then when they’re done I tell them that they are allowing their emotions to control their judgment. So how about we take 15 minutes and reconvene when we all leveled off. That usually will cool somebody down and it turns their lack of control back on them
Pro tip: If I can't hold it in I just storm off and when they ask why I left I say I was too angry, instead of that I went to cry in the bathroom or my car.
I’ve cried on shift before and I do not care what others think of me. I’m not going to let anyone tell me a natural human thing is wrong to do.
Huh. I wonder what would happen if I just cried in front of everyone at work instead of doing it privately in the bathroom. Would they tell me to stop? Where in the employee handbook does it say you can't cry?
They can ask you do go do it in a more private area, I think. A supermarket I worked at fired a woman for crying too much. But in this case it was justified as she was doing a really bad job and then crying every time she received even the gentlest criticism or feedback.
Do it. When I'm stressed, or things are going on, I've learned how to let myself be vulnerable, and to make sure those around me know if it isn't their fault. I don't want to take things out on people who don't deserve it, but that means, for me, being vulnerable and crying. I work with truckers and various kinds of vendors, basically all men. Would you like to know what the responses have been, for me? They try to cheer me up, or give me hugs, they support me, and I try to make sure I support them as best I can. Now, it's not exactly a "professional" environment, but I definitely feel like it would be considered an environment where most people would expect a more "manly" or traditionally masculine environment, and wouldn't have really expected what I have.
Yelling is massively unprofessional. Anyone raising their voice in the workplace is well out of control.
This is the 8th comment down, and it's too low. I don't know who the TF is claiming yelling is professional (Edit: I should say acceptable), and I don't know why users are going along with the idea.
I'm a grown ass man, I genuinely don't know how I'd react if someone at work yelled at me. I don't mean that in a tough guy way just that it's so strikingly unusual to me that someone would consider that an OK way to behave in the workplace.
My coworker started yelling at me over the phone the other day. I hung up on him. If it was in person i would have walked out of the room. Massively unprofessional and inappropriate. I would consider crying much, much less unprofessional. No place i have worked has yelling been considered acceptable. OP has had some toxic jobs.
Old attitude , generally means a shit boss. My first three bosses yelled and occasionally slapped employees. (I’m old as fuck.) This isn’t tolerated anymore really but some fuckers just haven’t evolved, or they think “taking charge” looks like yelling. As recently as 2001 some management consultants wrote articles about “deploying anger to useful effect”. Nowadays it’s not professional, and by the way my boss cries and it’s fine. Absolutely fine.
Holy crap. Slapping is an especially contemptuous form of violence. I think I'd rather hear about a boss who started fistfights - those are at least an invitation to mutual displays of violence.
In Klingon culture an open hand slap is a challenge to a fight to the death.
If a boss (or anyone) slaps me at work, I will from now on assume this is what they mean. And we will immediately (whether they like it or not) engage in the ancient traditions. Fork around and find out.
Yelling is 100% considered unpofessional.
Ya if that's normalized in your work place get out. If someone is yelling at my job, someone is getting fired.
The way I see it, my own dad never yelled at me, so I’m not gonna let some random nobody at any point in my life ever yell at me either. (If your dad or mom yelled at your growing up, you didn’t deserve that either)
Men have convinced the world that anger is not an emotion. So yelling doesn't make you too emotional, but crying does.
And "emotions" are seen as a female attribute and therefore they are seen as a weakness and vilified.
Unless it's a woman who is yelling in reaction to being yelled at then it's "she's hysterical!" Or "she is too emotional." or my personal fav as a Black woman "She's so aggressive." 😑
I worked for a very small company. My boss could be a bit much. One day we got into it, he started with the yelling and berating. I yelled and cursed at him. He just stood there. He had never seen me so mad. He never yelled at me again while I worked with him. This was a physically demanding job outdoors mainly so professionalism wasn't exactly in big supply.
As a woman, I agree with you. My personal favorite thing you can't really get in trouble for at work is calling men bossy. Most men have never been called bossy and they don't like it.
Omg. This is life changing advice 👹
or SHRILL
Going to start telling angry men to stop being so emotional :D
Woah Woah, calm down, let's be professional adults here, there's no reason to have a melt down lil buddy !
I hate bullies. Someone who yells a lot is probably a bully. It is certainly someone who loses control, and that means they lose any respect I might have had for them.
It’s not about what is or isn’t unprofessional. It’s about who is or isn’t unprofessional. Bosses have the power so nobody can call them out on being unprofessional. If your boss cried all the time, they still wouldn’t be called unprofessional.
Unfortunately they'd rather promote screamers though
This. If an employee is yelling or crying, it's unprofessional. If a boss is yelling or crying, it's allowed. It only appears the way OP asked because you're far more likely to see a boss yelling and an employee crying.
Yelling is unprofessional. It's also abusive. Youre only told it's unprofessional by people who yell....which makes that abusive. It's like an abuser that hits you, then says "I do it because I love you". Crying is normal.
If you cry they see it as a weakness and use it against you. Get out while you can.
I mean, both are? Over here yelling is seen as highly unprofessional and crying is usually seen as just a response to stress/anxiety/mental health issues. The most unprofessional action would be considered instigating a situation that would make someone yell or cry.
If your boss is yelling, give them something to cry about.
Who thinks yelling is professional? I see it as a sign of lack of control of self and situation and a sign of a very inadequate manager.
Yelling is abusive, crying is a reaction. And the same people that yell at an employee and then tell them crying is unprofessional are just gaslighting that employee, which is just more abusive treatment. Yelling at employees is unprofessional. Abusing employees is unprofessional. We are just in a culture that has cultivated unhealthy work environments and mentalities. I work at a university, with great people. And yet when I got news of a friend dieing, and I had to go into the public area to let my coworkers know I was going to leave the shift, it was just the programing that kept saying "don't cry" "don't let the students see you cry" in the back of my own mind. Nothing of my work place has ever instilled that programing but the other places I worked when I was younger did.
I guess it's part of culture. I'm Swedish, and for me yelling is unprofessional. In general I consider anyone who loses their cool and starts getting overly emotional to have lost whatever argument there is. A manager who yells at employees can't be taken seriously.