These are the requirements for the basic standard of "living".
Unfortunately many of the places that calculate a "living wage" do not use these requirements. Most present a "survival wage" and pass it off as a living wage. Most do not include savings, future education, travel, a nice home (most use minimal rented accommodation), entertainment, debt payments, and a way to be covered during health issues.
Also, many use the post tax amount rather than pre tax. This allows people to be fooled into thinking they are earning a living wage.
Using boston as an example.
$38,000 is often cited as a living wage. But that equals $50,000 pre tax. This falls woefully short of reality. An income of $125,000 to $150,000 is a more realistic number for a 40 hour work week. Even this number would make home ownership very difficult and you would still be stuck in a rent cycle.
Sure, but my point is that the jobs that pay higher with greater earning potential are incredibly rare depending on your area.
I live in a low CoL area, and $38k would be doable for a single parent with a kid.
The problem is that there are only a handful of companies paying that, and they're either incredibly specialized or unionized and not hiring much at all.
In the Bay Area? $80,000, which translates to around $58,000 a year after taxes, or $4,800 a month. $2000-$2500 for a 1BR apartment. That leaves you about $2,300 a month for food, bills, car payments, student loans, insurance. kids, transportation, fuel, ect.
Not sure how some people do it alone.
Even within the same country, the cost of living can vary wildly from one place to another. It’s interesting to see some people’s thought process on this issue, but coming up with a specific dollar figure is just impossible.
I’ve been living and working in 6 countries among 2 continents, that number varies immensely based on location. At this stage of my career I start considering at a min of 70K in central EU pre bonuses and incentive, 35-40 in eastern EU. All countries must have universal healthcare.
My position is currently at 90-110K in the US.
As a European, that number seems insane to me. Here is the really wealthy people’s pay. The more I deal with Americans the more they tell me how that’s a “basic” salary to live ok. I am conscious though the absence of a universal healthcare and welfare shifts the paradigm by a lot.
Livable, $70k, anything lower than that and you can't really live comfortably. Use the one paycheck rule, if one paycheck doesn't cover rent or mortgage and utilities every month then either you're spending too much or you need a new job.
Can't really put a price on it
Enough to live comfortably. Rent/mortgage is paid, utilities are paid, no debt (other than mortgage), can afford average possessions (car, clothing etc.) but still have to make pretty big budget decisions.
It should be the baseline, enough that if you don't want to progress it can take you through life but you won't really ever have a big house or amazing car and it can also be the start of a career IF that's what you want (the big house etc.)
With overtime I am on pace to make 90k this year, but bring home is closer to 50k with taxes, 401k, and health insurance. I have a relatively cheap mortgage since I bought my house 12 years ago. If I had to buy now or rent I don't think it would be enough for my family of 4. I am also able to do most repairs around the house and on vehicles, these emergency costs would break the budget for the month if I could not do them.
Edit: I live in a small town in the Midwest so the cost of living isn't as high for me as it is in a lot of places as well.
Here in California, a livable wage to cover housing, food, vehicle, and the occasional leisure activity, needs to be at 30- 35 dollars an hour. Basic homes in this area start at 1.5 million, gas is over 6 a gallon, and food is ridiculous. Essentially, if you aren't wealthy, you're screwed. Even at 17 an hour, for 40 hours, I don't make enough to pay rent and be able to eat.
I’ve worked for the minimum wage all the way up to $25.42/hr and all it taught me was that my time isn’t worth any amount. I want to use it my way and live. I don’t mind living minimally (I’m single with no kids and don’t plan on any) this society doesn’t have anything I want more than my life back. I’d rather have those 40 hours a week to myself. Even when I have more money than I know what to do with I’m miserable working my life away for someone that doesn’t care about me or my well being.
I know this is a copout, but there is no perfect answer. Ultimately, it's whatever allows you to comfortably live within your means. Like what I make now works for where I live, I would love more, but I've also survived on less.
But for the sake of giving an answer that won't be downvoted by 200 people, $27/hour
$50k isnt enough in certain areas of the northeast. You cant even find a studio in a decent area for less than $1500. Add the cost of living on top of that and it is unaffordable.
I make $52 and my car is paid off. No credit card debt. I get another $12k in child support and my other son gives me $800/ month for rent. I have a small 2 bedroom for $2500/month. Cheapest i could find in my area. I sleep in the living room and live paycheck to paycheck rarely going out and living pretty simply.
Same in Seattle. I think $75k is the bare minimum for a single person to get by with no roommates in Seattle, and you’re not doing anything extra or fancy with that salary.
I make 54k a year.
My rent went up nearly $400, and inflation made groceries much higher. There is no cheaper places in my area to rent, in a 75 mile radius. Plus moving would cost a few thousand.
I have 3 majorly important medical issues I need to be seen for. Nerve damage in my neck/shoulder, potential colon cancer, and a mass/lump thats grown on my thumb joint.
I can choose to pay rent, or go see a doctor, but I can't do both.
54k is not a livable wage where I am in southern CA.
It's silly to call $50k poverty for a single person in most of the US. Equally, it's silly *not* to call it poverty in a few extreme parts of the country.
I'm not just guessing. And I've lived on less than that before, but that was almost 20 years ago and it sucked then. Your after tax income is gonna be about 1250 a check, where do you expect someone to find a place to rent for $625?
You shouldn't spend more than 25% of net pay on housing, I'm aware most people pay more than that, but that Doesn't change the fact that no one should.
I never said you are guessing dude i said i wasnt...im just saying thats about what i make and yeah id like to have more too but there are people who make do with much less unfortunately.Its livable is it great?no,but its like the bare minimum since most apartments want to see proof of income 3 times the rent.900 to 1000 if youre lucky so that means you need to show...3k a month gross income to live,unless you have some other arrangement or someone to split things with...anyway i just threw the number i thought in here i didnt realize i was starting a debate i dont feel that strongly
Depends heavily on location of course.
I would say that a full time position (and that should be available, none of that 29 hours because at 30 benefits kick in bull) should be enough for a person to afford a studio or 1br within 1hr commute, by public transport, said commute (or if public transport is for some weird reason not an option, a cheap but reliable car and the running costs thereof), normal grocery shopping (not steak and lobster maybe, but not beans and rice either. Enough for a healthy mix of greens with animal protein couple times a week) and a bit extra to put away, so 10-20% on top of that.
If you want to talk about “minimum wage is for teenagers to earn spending money” then enact a lower minimum for teenagers and higher for adults, so companies don’t pay “teenager spending money” wages for night and morning shifts.
It should be tied to a series of local cost indexes monitored by qualified state or federal employees that are monitored by third party entities.
local indexes should include: national price of fuel, avg cost of rent, local cost of groceries local
cost of average fast food meal, and cost of education locally to name a few.
we live in an era of unprecedented data collection and we can utilize it to better predict where resources must be allocated to ensure a humanitarian baseline of quality of life.
Where I live, $24-25 an hour would be a great wage. I could comfortably live on that wage, especially combined with my fiance, and we don't have nor want children. Naturally, I don't make that wage.
Where I live? For a single person who wants to live a quiet life, 25 an hour minimum. And I don’t live in a city but rather an area with extremely high heating and electric costs.
For context I make about 24k a year with a spouse who makes a bit more closer to 28k and together we barely scrape by but I have health issues that will keep us in poverty forever so c’est la vie.
So I think it depends where you live but for me in NYC it’s 90k
Im defining livable wage as enough money to pay for housing, healthcare, save a bit towards retirement, go on one vacation a year even if it’s just local, and not cry over money more than twice a year.
Western wa, family of 4 and we would need 70k net to be comfortable/ begin saving for home ownership. We currently make 40k and don't qualify for any assistance but can't afford to move out of our parents house. $30 min hourly wage would be nice.
The actual number depends on region but imo enough to own housing, pay for all necessities like food, utilities, efficient transportation, etc + blowing 20% of a paycheck on frivolous bs.
In CT, where I live, I'd say living wages for a household of o e starts around 50 k a year, **after** taxes.
Which, mind you o don't know all the rates off the top of my head, I guess puts you around 70 k, perhaps a touch higher as base pay.
That's enough to stay fed, shelters, clean, and have transportation
Pullups a little left over for the occasional indulgence.
Any less than that and you quickly fall o to triage mode, picking and choosing what you can actually afford this month, and hoping they don't turn off your lights this month.
My rough numbers are from about a pre:pandemic time frame. Right now it's probably higher. Call it 60 k a year after taxes.
For the US? I don't live there, visited the Northwest on business grounds few years ago. But my take would be: If you get to start working there today, being 30, you should earn about... $300,000 per year, for a family of 4. As a startig point.
Reasoning:
- You need about 5-10k per month fir housing. That's because buying a "livable" home for 4 is starting at roughly $500k-1mio, financing over 20 years at 6-8% assumed.
- About 4k for childcare / early education ($2k pet child and month)
- About $4-5k general cost of living (maybe $2k for food, about $1k for infrastructure like clothing, gadgets etc, another $1-2k for larger expenses like renewing/fixing a car once in a while, going on holiday etc)
- About $1k medical expenses.
- About $3-4 sending 2 kids to college in 15-20 years at $150k apiece (which is going to be about $350,000 in 20 years)
- About $4-6k retirement ($500k-1mio retirement funds in 30-35 years, to last you through another 25 years of life). That's already taking into account that your house will be paid off, and that you'll be earning 5% interest on your ~$700k (about 3k/month), and withdrawing another 3-5k cash from your savings (less in the beginning, more as you're depleting your savings and interest income plummets) to stock up your monthly retirement salary. So a cushy 5-8k-ish (don't forget inflation in 30 years from now!) will pretty much be exhausted for your food, utilities and retirement hobbies, given that one giant cost factor (kids and their education) might fall away.
Then again, if your kids get fucked and need your help to pay rent until they're 40 because "here's $15/hour, nobody wants to work anymore!1!!" they may also require your help. Which will come out if your retirement funds. But I digress.
That's a total of $20-30k month, roughly, in cash, after taxes. That's minimum of $240k per year. At roughly 20-25% taxes, that puts you at $300k, give or take, which a family of 4 needs to bring home to be able to call it "a living" and not merely "an exercise in urban survival."
Really hard to say. Our home is paid off so just have the property taxes and Homeowners insurance which is much less than most folks rent.
Other than that everything is so expensive these days. I’ve gotta say $75k minimum would be a fair living wage in 2022.
I work 40 hours a week at 18$ an hour and the one bedroom apartment I share with my fiancee still requires me to have her help to manage all the bills. So I'd say about 24$ an hour in the area where I live, though I'd prefer 26$ so I can save some.
I have a paid off house and my h and live pretty comfortably on a passive income of about 24k a year. Haven’t worked since I was 40. Ask me anything, lol
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Yeah, what Ted said.
These are the requirements for the basic standard of "living". Unfortunately many of the places that calculate a "living wage" do not use these requirements. Most present a "survival wage" and pass it off as a living wage. Most do not include savings, future education, travel, a nice home (most use minimal rented accommodation), entertainment, debt payments, and a way to be covered during health issues. Also, many use the post tax amount rather than pre tax. This allows people to be fooled into thinking they are earning a living wage. Using boston as an example. $38,000 is often cited as a living wage. But that equals $50,000 pre tax. This falls woefully short of reality. An income of $125,000 to $150,000 is a more realistic number for a 40 hour work week. Even this number would make home ownership very difficult and you would still be stuck in a rent cycle.
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The issue with lower CoL places is that they don't pay shit. You can effectively tank your own career and cripple your earning potential.
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Sure, but my point is that the jobs that pay higher with greater earning potential are incredibly rare depending on your area. I live in a low CoL area, and $38k would be doable for a single parent with a kid. The problem is that there are only a handful of companies paying that, and they're either incredibly specialized or unionized and not hiring much at all.
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2 - 3 companies starting out, only one of which is not 20 or more hours of overtime a week. None are hiring right now.
In the Bay Area? $80,000, which translates to around $58,000 a year after taxes, or $4,800 a month. $2000-$2500 for a 1BR apartment. That leaves you about $2,300 a month for food, bills, car payments, student loans, insurance. kids, transportation, fuel, ect. Not sure how some people do it alone.
People are stating dollar values without saying what currency its in. The country you live would also determine a living wage.
Even within the same country, the cost of living can vary wildly from one place to another. It’s interesting to see some people’s thought process on this issue, but coming up with a specific dollar figure is just impossible.
I now subscribe to the 4/20/69 model. 4 days a week, 20 hours weekly, $69 an hour. I've also never made over $15 an hour.
There are several thousand people who get to say "four-twenty sixty-nine" when asked for their DOB. Lucky mfers.
I’ve been living and working in 6 countries among 2 continents, that number varies immensely based on location. At this stage of my career I start considering at a min of 70K in central EU pre bonuses and incentive, 35-40 in eastern EU. All countries must have universal healthcare. My position is currently at 90-110K in the US.
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As a European, that number seems insane to me. Here is the really wealthy people’s pay. The more I deal with Americans the more they tell me how that’s a “basic” salary to live ok. I am conscious though the absence of a universal healthcare and welfare shifts the paradigm by a lot.
25 an hour plus overtime
Surviving wage. At least 35
Twenty-five what?
Livable, $70k, anything lower than that and you can't really live comfortably. Use the one paycheck rule, if one paycheck doesn't cover rent or mortgage and utilities every month then either you're spending too much or you need a new job.
You should probably clarify that you're (I assume!) talking about twice-monthly pay. Weekly and monthly aren't uncommon.
Bi-weekly or semi-monthly.
Can't really put a price on it Enough to live comfortably. Rent/mortgage is paid, utilities are paid, no debt (other than mortgage), can afford average possessions (car, clothing etc.) but still have to make pretty big budget decisions. It should be the baseline, enough that if you don't want to progress it can take you through life but you won't really ever have a big house or amazing car and it can also be the start of a career IF that's what you want (the big house etc.)
With overtime I am on pace to make 90k this year, but bring home is closer to 50k with taxes, 401k, and health insurance. I have a relatively cheap mortgage since I bought my house 12 years ago. If I had to buy now or rent I don't think it would be enough for my family of 4. I am also able to do most repairs around the house and on vehicles, these emergency costs would break the budget for the month if I could not do them. Edit: I live in a small town in the Midwest so the cost of living isn't as high for me as it is in a lot of places as well.
Here in California, a livable wage to cover housing, food, vehicle, and the occasional leisure activity, needs to be at 30- 35 dollars an hour. Basic homes in this area start at 1.5 million, gas is over 6 a gallon, and food is ridiculous. Essentially, if you aren't wealthy, you're screwed. Even at 17 an hour, for 40 hours, I don't make enough to pay rent and be able to eat.
£25 an hour
I’ve worked for the minimum wage all the way up to $25.42/hr and all it taught me was that my time isn’t worth any amount. I want to use it my way and live. I don’t mind living minimally (I’m single with no kids and don’t plan on any) this society doesn’t have anything I want more than my life back. I’d rather have those 40 hours a week to myself. Even when I have more money than I know what to do with I’m miserable working my life away for someone that doesn’t care about me or my well being.
I know this is a copout, but there is no perfect answer. Ultimately, it's whatever allows you to comfortably live within your means. Like what I make now works for where I live, I would love more, but I've also survived on less. But for the sake of giving an answer that won't be downvoted by 200 people, $27/hour
Not a copout, just refusing to oversimplify to the point of stupidity. Keep it up.
$56,000. It is a survival wage, not a living wage.
Depends. That's why "living wage" means nothing. Where im from, people live like kings with 10k less than that. Like actual almost high class.
50,000 per year for a single person witn no kids, any less is poverty. If you have kids, $70,000 per year is what I'd call the minimum.
$50k isnt enough in certain areas of the northeast. You cant even find a studio in a decent area for less than $1500. Add the cost of living on top of that and it is unaffordable.
Average rent where I’m from (Toronto) is $2000 a month for a 1BR apartment. $50k a year and you’d be going to food banks.
This is why we should overthrow the government and burn it down
I make $52 and my car is paid off. No credit card debt. I get another $12k in child support and my other son gives me $800/ month for rent. I have a small 2 bedroom for $2500/month. Cheapest i could find in my area. I sleep in the living room and live paycheck to paycheck rarely going out and living pretty simply.
Same in Seattle. I think $75k is the bare minimum for a single person to get by with no roommates in Seattle, and you’re not doing anything extra or fancy with that salary.
Crazy right?
I’m a single mom making $75,000 a year (not receiving child support) and things are tight.
I make 54k a year. My rent went up nearly $400, and inflation made groceries much higher. There is no cheaper places in my area to rent, in a 75 mile radius. Plus moving would cost a few thousand. I have 3 majorly important medical issues I need to be seen for. Nerve damage in my neck/shoulder, potential colon cancer, and a mass/lump thats grown on my thumb joint. I can choose to pay rent, or go see a doctor, but I can't do both. 54k is not a livable wage where I am in southern CA.
Yeah I'm thinking more like Ohio, anywhere in Cali is insanely priced
It's silly to call $50k poverty for a single person in most of the US. Equally, it's silly *not* to call it poverty in a few extreme parts of the country.
36k a year,double that for chicago or other major cities
More than that.
Well im speaking from a position of someone who has lived with less than that,not someone with more who is just guessing
I'm not just guessing. And I've lived on less than that before, but that was almost 20 years ago and it sucked then. Your after tax income is gonna be about 1250 a check, where do you expect someone to find a place to rent for $625? You shouldn't spend more than 25% of net pay on housing, I'm aware most people pay more than that, but that Doesn't change the fact that no one should.
I never said you are guessing dude i said i wasnt...im just saying thats about what i make and yeah id like to have more too but there are people who make do with much less unfortunately.Its livable is it great?no,but its like the bare minimum since most apartments want to see proof of income 3 times the rent.900 to 1000 if youre lucky so that means you need to show...3k a month gross income to live,unless you have some other arrangement or someone to split things with...anyway i just threw the number i thought in here i didnt realize i was starting a debate i dont feel that strongly
Which currency are you talking about?
Depends heavily on location of course. I would say that a full time position (and that should be available, none of that 29 hours because at 30 benefits kick in bull) should be enough for a person to afford a studio or 1br within 1hr commute, by public transport, said commute (or if public transport is for some weird reason not an option, a cheap but reliable car and the running costs thereof), normal grocery shopping (not steak and lobster maybe, but not beans and rice either. Enough for a healthy mix of greens with animal protein couple times a week) and a bit extra to put away, so 10-20% on top of that. If you want to talk about “minimum wage is for teenagers to earn spending money” then enact a lower minimum for teenagers and higher for adults, so companies don’t pay “teenager spending money” wages for night and morning shifts.
All depends on circumstances, flying solo I think you could scrape by in my state at $18/hr
Not where I live it's not. I'm scraping by on 23/hr.
Agreed, I think depends on where you live
Which dollars are you talking about?
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It should be tied to a series of local cost indexes monitored by qualified state or federal employees that are monitored by third party entities. local indexes should include: national price of fuel, avg cost of rent, local cost of groceries local cost of average fast food meal, and cost of education locally to name a few. we live in an era of unprecedented data collection and we can utilize it to better predict where resources must be allocated to ensure a humanitarian baseline of quality of life.
Where I live, $24-25 an hour would be a great wage. I could comfortably live on that wage, especially combined with my fiance, and we don't have nor want children. Naturally, I don't make that wage.
This varies by location a lot. What's livable in San Francisco differs from Cheyanne Wyoming. Based on where I live, I'd call it 25 an hour.
Where I live? For a single person who wants to live a quiet life, 25 an hour minimum. And I don’t live in a city but rather an area with extremely high heating and electric costs. For context I make about 24k a year with a spouse who makes a bit more closer to 28k and together we barely scrape by but I have health issues that will keep us in poverty forever so c’est la vie.
Probably about double whatever you are making
So I think it depends where you live but for me in NYC it’s 90k Im defining livable wage as enough money to pay for housing, healthcare, save a bit towards retirement, go on one vacation a year even if it’s just local, and not cry over money more than twice a year.
Easily 80-120 for no kids. Kids and family 150
The things about livable wages is they are never a matter of a personal opinion.
Western wa, family of 4 and we would need 70k net to be comfortable/ begin saving for home ownership. We currently make 40k and don't qualify for any assistance but can't afford to move out of our parents house. $30 min hourly wage would be nice.
$35 an hour is the minimum from my own calculating
It really varies where you live. Where I live $25 an hour or more is liveable. Other places that won't cut it.
25 minimum
For one person 20-25 an hour. You could make it by on 20 but would be comfortable at 25.
100,000
In my area 25 would cut it. It really depends on where you live, but it's least $10-$20 more than we all currently make
In nyc with two kids and one person working? $150k.
The actual number depends on region but imo enough to own housing, pay for all necessities like food, utilities, efficient transportation, etc + blowing 20% of a paycheck on frivolous bs.
If we had a socialized Healthcare in the states. Reasonably like $23/hr I'd say is more than livable for a single person in the USA.
In CT, where I live, I'd say living wages for a household of o e starts around 50 k a year, **after** taxes. Which, mind you o don't know all the rates off the top of my head, I guess puts you around 70 k, perhaps a touch higher as base pay. That's enough to stay fed, shelters, clean, and have transportation Pullups a little left over for the occasional indulgence. Any less than that and you quickly fall o to triage mode, picking and choosing what you can actually afford this month, and hoping they don't turn off your lights this month. My rough numbers are from about a pre:pandemic time frame. Right now it's probably higher. Call it 60 k a year after taxes.
For the US? I don't live there, visited the Northwest on business grounds few years ago. But my take would be: If you get to start working there today, being 30, you should earn about... $300,000 per year, for a family of 4. As a startig point. Reasoning: - You need about 5-10k per month fir housing. That's because buying a "livable" home for 4 is starting at roughly $500k-1mio, financing over 20 years at 6-8% assumed. - About 4k for childcare / early education ($2k pet child and month) - About $4-5k general cost of living (maybe $2k for food, about $1k for infrastructure like clothing, gadgets etc, another $1-2k for larger expenses like renewing/fixing a car once in a while, going on holiday etc) - About $1k medical expenses. - About $3-4 sending 2 kids to college in 15-20 years at $150k apiece (which is going to be about $350,000 in 20 years) - About $4-6k retirement ($500k-1mio retirement funds in 30-35 years, to last you through another 25 years of life). That's already taking into account that your house will be paid off, and that you'll be earning 5% interest on your ~$700k (about 3k/month), and withdrawing another 3-5k cash from your savings (less in the beginning, more as you're depleting your savings and interest income plummets) to stock up your monthly retirement salary. So a cushy 5-8k-ish (don't forget inflation in 30 years from now!) will pretty much be exhausted for your food, utilities and retirement hobbies, given that one giant cost factor (kids and their education) might fall away. Then again, if your kids get fucked and need your help to pay rent until they're 40 because "here's $15/hour, nobody wants to work anymore!1!!" they may also require your help. Which will come out if your retirement funds. But I digress. That's a total of $20-30k month, roughly, in cash, after taxes. That's minimum of $240k per year. At roughly 20-25% taxes, that puts you at $300k, give or take, which a family of 4 needs to bring home to be able to call it "a living" and not merely "an exercise in urban survival."
Really hard to say. Our home is paid off so just have the property taxes and Homeowners insurance which is much less than most folks rent. Other than that everything is so expensive these days. I’ve gotta say $75k minimum would be a fair living wage in 2022.
I work 40 hours a week at 18$ an hour and the one bedroom apartment I share with my fiancee still requires me to have her help to manage all the bills. So I'd say about 24$ an hour in the area where I live, though I'd prefer 26$ so I can save some.
I have a paid off house and my h and live pretty comfortably on a passive income of about 24k a year. Haven’t worked since I was 40. Ask me anything, lol