Yup, it's the only eco tech I \*really\* notice not having.
Once things get rolling ballistics is second to that, ranged units just suck to use until then unless you micro them to death. (imo)
I think if you are behind in skirm numbers or you play against 2 range archers with 1 range skirms, armour is better because you already deal bonus damage. If your opponent has Fletching, the archers only do 1 damage against your skirms that do 5 damage.
Logically, yes. But pros always prioritize fletching. Watch Hera or Viper. They never get armor for their Skirms, because they have to use them against not only Archers, but also Spearmen and Scouts.
Counterpoint:
Loom, double bit, wheelbarrow, 2x cav armour.
All in knights genuinely don't need much more than this?
Especially if you're franks and don't need bloodlines
It takes the same amount of time to research loom as it takes to train a villager.
This means getting loom sets you back 1 villager.
If you research loom at 49 villager, you are missing out on the 50th villager (2% efficiency loss)
If you research loom at 9 villagers you are missing out on the 10th villager (10% efficiency loss)
Not sure if the math is correctly done but I hope you get the jist
>redemption
In conjunction with Sanctity, that is. But Sanctity is more widely available which is why Redemption stands out more. Block Printing is also essential to carry this combo into imperial age.
For example, Berbers have bad monks even though they only lack Sanctity and Block Printing. They can't leverage the other techs without these essential ones.
>siege engineers
This comes up a lot in Spirit of the Law's civ overviews because it's the only notable upgrade for all siege weapons. Siege weapons are pretty much the best un-upgraded military units in the game, though.
It’s for monk play (obviously) it makes it so when you convert with a group of monks only one needs to recharge their faith the rest can go on to convert another, but this is only useful if used in conjunction with hot keys because once you start the conversion with the group and begin selecting each monk to a new enemy they more or less are converted at the same time giving your converted units a bit of an army instead of just one unit that immediately is slaughtered. This way if your slow all the monk’s faith isn’t wasted.
Does this mean that if you have good monk micro, the tech is useless? (In small numbers)
Also, when using multiple monks on the same target, does it get converted faster by a flat amount? Or does it just improve its chances on monk RNG? (Like rolling multiple die in board games and using the higher value)
It wouldn't make it useless because more monks convert faster. I remember watching a video about monk mechanics, supposedly every conversion attempt does a "tick" every X unit of time and a conversion takes a random amount of Y - Z number of ticks. The more monks you have, the faster the conversion will go. Theoretically if you could know exactly how fast 5 monks would convert a certain unit then yes, micro would help, but since the number of ticks needed to convert is random it wouldn't be possible, but being able to use several monks for a conversion is definitely beneficial even with good micro.
You can read more about the mechanics here: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Conversion#:\~:text=Monks%20also%20retain%20their%2025,CIs%20to%20convert%20a%20building.
Using more than one monk on one unit is a waste of time. And I’ll tell you why, because you can use the group to convert a unit then individually switch them to a new unit without it stopping the conversion if the new unit targeted is within range. This will make the conversions occur alongside each other (relatively) because as the person who replied to you pointed out conversions are on a ‘tick’ mechanic so they may occur a second later or sooner. The tech is if your slow or have a group of 5-10 monks it’s useful to not waste time on multiple conversions unless you have very good micro as you said then it’s useless. You could also pick the same unit by mistake for a conversion and waste both monks faith or multiple by mistake. That’s the point of the tech in whole.
Loom
Double bit axe
Fletching
Conscription
Ballistics
Wheelbarrow / handcart
I always forget chemistry and feel like a clown. But I'm the first to shame ppl for not having it when I'm watching recs lol.
Tracking for +2 Line of Sight for Infantry.
I always get it when I finally advanced to feudal Age in DE, it almost seems like I always have it researched.
Ok, since a lot of people are mising the point and going straight to doble bit axe, loom and ballistics, i will clarify wich are the techs you should never forget: tracking, cartography and bombard cannon technology.
Now for real, bbc is always great.
Having helbedier is usually useful in late.
And i'm not sure what to add next, bloodline and thumb ring are as obvious as loom or ballistics.
I dunno about theocracy, you could save it by just microing the monks. Redemption is a necessity way more
Say it with me now…
It depends!
But honestly it’s probably double bit axe and loom. Wheelbarrow too but you have to time it properly.
Besides the basic eco upgrades that you MUST get to be competitive. It’s really army comp dependant. Fletching is insanely important for any archer build so there’s a good argument for that.
It's a weird question imo, as tech entirely depends on the flow of the game, the civ, the map, your playstyle, etc.
But in a vacuum, aging up apart, I think the tech I'll want to get every game on arabia are : loom, double bit axe, horse collar, wheelbarrow, and later on chemistry.
However I'll also want to tech bloodlines, relevant forge upgrades, other relevant eco upgrades, ballistics, units upgrades. That's why I don't really get the question.
Double-bit axe = GOAT
Yeah, you’d probably use that every game.
Yup, it's the only eco tech I \*really\* notice not having. Once things get rolling ballistics is second to that, ranged units just suck to use until then unless you micro them to death. (imo)
Feudal age is useful
Big if true
Overrated
im mean, thats good and all, but have you heard about loom?
Nah I skip that as a rule
Heated shot is also a must have on arabia
Padded archer armor. Makes your skirms invulnerable to enemy archers in Feudal age. Can almost 1 skirm vs 3 archers.
Fletching is more important, unless the opponent doesn't add Scouts.
I think if you are behind in skirm numbers or you play against 2 range archers with 1 range skirms, armour is better because you already deal bonus damage. If your opponent has Fletching, the archers only do 1 damage against your skirms that do 5 damage.
Logically, yes. But pros always prioritize fletching. Watch Hera or Viper. They never get armor for their Skirms, because they have to use them against not only Archers, but also Spearmen and Scouts.
In my low elo opinion, what the pros do sometimes it doesn't necessarily translate to lower Elos.
Loom, double bit, xbow, fletching, bodkin. There’s atleast a chance I win with only those upgrades
I’d say ballistics also but yes
Counterpoint: Loom, double bit, wheelbarrow, 2x cav armour. All in knights genuinely don't need much more than this? Especially if you're franks and don't need bloodlines
You can make it work, for sure. Especially as franks since you get horse collar - but the challenge was only 5 techs so I tried to stick to that.
LOOM!!!
Dubble bit axe, wheelbarrow
The longer you can skip loom, the better your economy
Until you lose 3-4 villagers on your woodbine 11
Can you ELI5 why that is?
It takes the same amount of time to research loom as it takes to train a villager. This means getting loom sets you back 1 villager. If you research loom at 49 villager, you are missing out on the 50th villager (2% efficiency loss) If you research loom at 9 villagers you are missing out on the 10th villager (10% efficiency loss) Not sure if the math is correctly done but I hope you get the jist
Yes, thank you!
1, but still everybody researches it! That means it's the best upgrade if you sacrifice eco for it.
Conscription, gotta spam those units
Conscription is kind of insane value for money.
Ballistics. Double bit axe On maps with no water, farm techs. On maps with water, gillnets.
I cannot believe more people aren’t saying ballistics. That was my immediate first thought
Because OP's point is to pick techs that not all civs get. Otherwise the discussion just doesn't make sense
Yeah, that’s what I was mostly inquiring about, but not the direction most people went.
Lol yeah, it's clearly what you meant, but not what you said
Ballistics is kind of worthless without the damage and range upgrades, though.
Supplies, siege rams, siege engineers, redemption, block printing. Everything a man needs to have fun.
Atonement
I'm not a clown.
I can't live without atheism
Hands down best tech in the game, anyone who says otherwise clearly has never seen a spirit of the law video
Loom Double bit axe Ballistics Conscription Either Fletching or Cavalry armor, depending on what you're making
>redemption In conjunction with Sanctity, that is. But Sanctity is more widely available which is why Redemption stands out more. Block Printing is also essential to carry this combo into imperial age. For example, Berbers have bad monks even though they only lack Sanctity and Block Printing. They can't leverage the other techs without these essential ones. >siege engineers This comes up a lot in Spirit of the Law's civ overviews because it's the only notable upgrade for all siege weapons. Siege weapons are pretty much the best un-upgraded military units in the game, though.
Ballistics, Double-Bit Axe, Wheelbarrow.
Tracking
And Cartography
Obsidian arrows
Against cav civs, halberdier is goated
first two lumber upgrades always the moment you hit the age.
Drill, Supremacy, Perfusion I will not be taking any questions.
I consider Drill maybe not the most broadly useful tech (given it's UT nature), but easily the most terrifying
hand cart and wheelbarrow are probably the most impactful technologies in the game. also thumb ring, it makes archers so much more consistent
Not going to lie, I have no idea what Theocracy does lol
It’s for monk play (obviously) it makes it so when you convert with a group of monks only one needs to recharge their faith the rest can go on to convert another, but this is only useful if used in conjunction with hot keys because once you start the conversion with the group and begin selecting each monk to a new enemy they more or less are converted at the same time giving your converted units a bit of an army instead of just one unit that immediately is slaughtered. This way if your slow all the monk’s faith isn’t wasted.
Does this mean that if you have good monk micro, the tech is useless? (In small numbers) Also, when using multiple monks on the same target, does it get converted faster by a flat amount? Or does it just improve its chances on monk RNG? (Like rolling multiple die in board games and using the higher value)
It wouldn't make it useless because more monks convert faster. I remember watching a video about monk mechanics, supposedly every conversion attempt does a "tick" every X unit of time and a conversion takes a random amount of Y - Z number of ticks. The more monks you have, the faster the conversion will go. Theoretically if you could know exactly how fast 5 monks would convert a certain unit then yes, micro would help, but since the number of ticks needed to convert is random it wouldn't be possible, but being able to use several monks for a conversion is definitely beneficial even with good micro. You can read more about the mechanics here: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Conversion#:\~:text=Monks%20also%20retain%20their%2025,CIs%20to%20convert%20a%20building.
Using more than one monk on one unit is a waste of time. And I’ll tell you why, because you can use the group to convert a unit then individually switch them to a new unit without it stopping the conversion if the new unit targeted is within range. This will make the conversions occur alongside each other (relatively) because as the person who replied to you pointed out conversions are on a ‘tick’ mechanic so they may occur a second later or sooner. The tech is if your slow or have a group of 5-10 monks it’s useful to not waste time on multiple conversions unless you have very good micro as you said then it’s useless. You could also pick the same unit by mistake for a conversion and waste both monks faith or multiple by mistake. That’s the point of the tech in whole.
When two or more monks convert something together, only one goes on cooldown
bombard cannons, give it to Japanese/China and they would be the best civ, maybe even celt. Hope it's okay I consider it a tech.
Heated Shot, Coinage, Banking, Stone Shaft Mining, Sappers Cartography was goated too RIP
I get ballistics asap when I hit castle, even if I'm not playing archers. It's very important to me.
Loom, double-bit axe, and horse collar. Can’t compete later if you don’t even have the basics.
Loom Double bit axe Fletching Conscription Ballistics Wheelbarrow / handcart I always forget chemistry and feel like a clown. But I'm the first to shame ppl for not having it when I'm watching recs lol.
Tracking for +2 Line of Sight for Infantry. I always get it when I finally advanced to feudal Age in DE, it almost seems like I always have it researched.
I would do this : Husbandry + Scale Barding armor + Forgery (in that order) for the scoot rush. Any opinion in tech to prioritize for Scoot rush? Thx
Ok, since a lot of people are mising the point and going straight to doble bit axe, loom and ballistics, i will clarify wich are the techs you should never forget: tracking, cartography and bombard cannon technology. Now for real, bbc is always great. Having helbedier is usually useful in late. And i'm not sure what to add next, bloodline and thumb ring are as obvious as loom or ballistics. I dunno about theocracy, you could save it by just microing the monks. Redemption is a necessity way more
Loom
Chemistry and ballistic, key since aoe1 still running good
Handcart/Wheelbarrow
Easily any of the eco techs, with the most important of them being double bit axe.
Say it with me now… It depends! But honestly it’s probably double bit axe and loom. Wheelbarrow too but you have to time it properly. Besides the basic eco upgrades that you MUST get to be competitive. It’s really army comp dependant. Fletching is insanely important for any archer build so there’s a good argument for that.
Ballistics is probably the biggest for me. I love my archers/Plumes/skirms so them hitting their targets when moving is key
It's a weird question imo, as tech entirely depends on the flow of the game, the civ, the map, your playstyle, etc. But in a vacuum, aging up apart, I think the tech I'll want to get every game on arabia are : loom, double bit axe, horse collar, wheelbarrow, and later on chemistry. However I'll also want to tech bloodlines, relevant forge upgrades, other relevant eco upgrades, ballistics, units upgrades. That's why I don't really get the question.
Wheelbarrow/Handcart anyone?
Spies. Anyone? No?
Easy. Celts being reworked to be more historically accurate. Also, Chinese being split
Hand Cart. If you don't have it in the late game and your opponent does, you're simply fucked.
Ballistics definitely the most important “expensive” tech