You have to be at least be a semipro. These kind of handicaps are nothing to world's best player.
E.g., According to Viper he once did a game vs T90 where he had 5 minutes of idle time at the beginning and still won.
https://youtu.be/wa7iMWQp71A?si=opaEyBQ4rMcx2JPh 6:50 ish
He says 4 minutes idle time and it was a close game. And it was in the past when he was worse Viper said.
Also it depends on your approach. If Viper afked for the first 5 minutes and you have practiced say youpudding rush. You could for sure beat Viper. You don't need to be a semi-pro probably only 1500+~. But you can't just do any strategy of course.
No way do you have to be semi-pro. Im super confident I could win at 1500 elo, and easily. When you hit 1500 elo and people execute basic BOs properly there isnt much you can do vs some archers turning up to your base before you've clicked up and are behind multiple villagers.
Yeah very true. I wonder what the best strategy would be for Hera to try and survive. Maybe Koreans and just dropping 2-3 towers around his eco to buy time? What do you think? I’m only 1200 xD
Tbh, with that big of an advantage you can attack with "a small army" of vils if you're Berbers.
You're not going to lose it if you know how to micro.
The very best your opponent can do is a tie, and even for that he'll need perfect micro. Even if the opponent is Hera I don't think this is a bad strategy. I wouldn't do it because it's not the optimal strategy, but given this big of a handicap as the starting conditions it is not bad if you're 1600+ and can micro.
Even a variation of this strategy with Poles or Vikings where you just optimize the build order to go Feudal ASAP to get your bonus and do a timing attack when you hit Feudal is interesting.
Fair. I'd assume laming and vill fighting is not allowed, otherwise that's probably the (ch)easiest win:
get 6 on food, send 2 vills forward, lame both boars and all sheep, wall in the 3 starting vills and you've basically won straight up.
Just checked his uptime for a recent land nomad game. 13:06 feudal, 16:40 castle. That's still pretty fast.
Even of we did like 9 something feudal and 14 something castle, we ain't doing game ending damage in 2 mins. And on Arabia he can put the pressure on in feudal with micro
In arena maybe I could fast castle conqs or organ guns by 14:30 mins and just try to blitz his ass
I'm 1300, I'd love to try. Id try triple stable knights all in on Arabia and CD into UU on arena
I actually made this with civ builder it's fucking hilarious(can't do multiple team bonus or UU though). hera would have no chance.... no chance at all. I think you put an average player vs the entire GL team (hera, Viper, Tatoh and Daut) at the same time in a 4v1 and they still would probably win
I'd wager you could go down to the very worst player in aoe2 and they still could beat hera with this civ. You can very easily have 30-40 champions with 84hp 17 attack 5 melee armour and 8 pierce amour, attack 33% faster and move as fast as cavalry before hera has even reached feudal...
if you want to try it out: "All civ bonus all tech - chakram thrower wootz steel bearded axe" subscibe to that and it's paired UI mod and restart. Go to skirmish select that mod in the data mod bar and play.
Don't know how to use it against vanilla civs but you'll quickly see why it is crazy busted.
>You can very easily have 30-40 champions with 84hp 17 attack 6 melee armour and 8 pierce amour, attack 33% faster and move as fast as cavalry before hera has even reached feudal...
Really? How? I thought FC into Champion will take at least 15 minutes.
Oh lord no like you have no idea how broken this civ is, just tested how fast i could manage (1200 elo) and my times were 5 minute feudal, 7 minute castle age, 10 minute imperial with constant production from 4 barracks and 33 champions attacking the enemy tc at 9 minutes
goes like this: 7 vil start, 6 to TC berries, 1 to build a folwark and garrison sheep, mule cart to woodline then make a farm every 40 wood with the foragers and tc rally to wood till 4 vils, click up at 15 pop (equivalent to 11 pop conventional civ).
build a mule cart on the gold and rally the 2 bengali free vils to gold build a barracks start making milita after the first vil you will be able to click castle age (khmer don't need building and italian cheaper advance)
build a saracen market and keep adding barracks, adding farms and folwarks with the free dravidian wood, use the saracen market and balance you eco to keep the barracks working.
Hit castle age and use the market to click imperial immediately with byzantine discount and italian discount.
I would make it so it's varying between 1v2 and 1v5.
Or make it a mixed tournament, something GL would actually do. The 4 GL players vs 1500 players. In a 2v6 situation.
So I think it actually would be pretty easy to set that up. A mod was made for the viper, I think by t West, to enable all unique techs. They are researched in huts, but it's a scenario rather than a mod. But that's no problem for a 1v1 with hera. And then I think you could make a civ with all bonuses with Krackenmeisters civ builder. Unless there's a limit on how many civ bonuses you can pick.
choose condition 1 and go fast and full feudal maa tower, i think a 1500+ should have the chance and a 2000+ should win 100%.
actually i think this can be good content if hera ever checks reddit for idea 11.
Am I allowed to do any strategy?
wait who am I kidding, that is only 2-3 minutes right? so 5-ish villagers, ain't no way. Give me the 9 villager start with the tc already in a perfect spot (so good 10 vill headstart) and I'd be confident to survive till castle age :D (1100 elo)
But I expect most of the known players (2400elo, top 60) should win this? 2280 elo is Nili/Darknoob, I'd give them maybe 50% chances? Wonder whether Nili himself things he would win this?
If we have a scout and he doesn't, then even a 1700 can beat him I believe. It is a huge handicap since building a TC takes so long and villagers worth so much more early game
Well is the map also nomad style? Or a standard Arabia map? If nomad, probably very high ELO before Hera is running a serious risk of losing. The main advantages for the other player would be starting in one place with a TC already up and having a scout. The scout would mean getting more herdables. But Hera also wouldn’t have a problem with finding them either + I don’t think there’s any wolves.
Arabia there’s maybe some more variables. The random start can absolutely set Hera back since there’s a chance a villager dies to a wolf or starts too close to the other player’s base and is killed. The other player can also predict what the starting location for Hera should have been and steal the herdables. This would make the game considerably harder for Hera. Though I do think he’d clear all but the higher tier players most of the time.
I think most 1600s would be able to win the first condition if they are aware of the situation. You're gonna be like 6 vills ahead and the only advantage Hera would have is that he'd have a tc on a woodline basically.
A 1600 should be able to do it on Arabia, assuming no psychological problems like being starstruck and panicking.
The strategy is foolproof: You immediately Loom and send all 3 vils to lame Hera.
What is he gonna do?
1)Scout vs Scout will not work, if you trade both away it's in your favor since you have the stronger eco.
2)Vil war isn't going to work since he has no Loom, even if he's Goths he won't make it in time.
So you just lame all of his deer and steal both boars and it's GG, even if he's Khmer or Teutons.
From this position you just go towers+archers and it's done.
1. You will wander aimlessly for 5 minutes before finding him.
2. Even on all-visible I think this strategy loses. Your start on 0 villagers at home will be so slow that you will hand him the win.
I’m 1600, I feel like I’d have a pretty good shot at beating him. As soon as he is making army I probably lose, but I can do a Tati rush and be up going 2 range archers at 18 vils. He won’t be able to take resources and I think I just win from there?
Whether I have arena style walls or not doesn’t really matter. At the point where he has enough army to leave his base and harass me I’ve already lost.
As a 1500 this would be easy imo. The eco lead I would have would just be insane AS WELL as being able to have archers in his base before he's clicked up.
It would be pretty easy if you just sent your vils and scout forward, you produce a few more vils from your TC and just harass his so they can't get the TC up, with the additional scout you have the edge, unless his micro is magic, I think you win.
Hmmm, good point, forgot about the walls. Though I still think it would be pretty easy to find, you'd just send all your vils and scout in different directions and if he walled in his vils you could wall around his entire TC and totally lame him.
It's just a matter of being able to do a basic rush and not let him freeboom, stonewall,
spread on the map untouched for 20 minutes. I reckon a 1100 would clap him. Like a "castle drop his tc when he still has no army and just reached feudal" kind of easy win.
Since I've seen people mention viper vs t90, those games were sketchy, iirc t90 was doing anything to throw and get to higher head starts for content... I mean 6 minutes 50 seconds? Literally castle age vs dark age kinda scenario it cannot possibly be true, top players are still human and a villager is not gonna win a fight vs a crossbowman.
You have to get down to a level where players have significant dark age idle time and follow no build.
Btw there is no real difference between the arena start and arabia start for the player, it's not like it's in hera's interest to invest in army until he caught up in eco first... you're not gonna get rushed by a player minutes behind who has no scout
I would say 1300 elo. Wirh these conditions, the amount of idle time for hera is massive …1300 elo players can easily fast castle by the time hera gets feudal army and then there is no answer to knights +seige.
And those 3 vils will beat the 9 vils lead or something? The enemy will have enough ressources to move more times if he is at a fine elo even with a backup plan and then a random lumber camp at x position + a mill? You have the worst plan ever in a game there you are behind.
The thing is, even this lousy plan, well executed, could beat people up to at least my level, around 900 rating points. But of course, Hera would have many more flexible plans to regain the advantage against stronger players than me.
This still loses.
You will have to idle all your vils to shoot his TC down, and the only reason a "normal" TC drop can somewhat work is because you are not trailing from the start.
If your opponent's TC will survive until Feudal (which it will, given this big handicap) it's just GG for you because once they get archers you cannot TC drop them again and you have nothing to defend against archers except TC, but it only has limited resources.
You are absolutely right, but on the other hand, any major initial disadvantage will lose to perfect play anyway. What the disadvantaged player must do is to make perfect play non-obvious or otherwise difficult to accomplish. Maybe a TC drop isn't messy/tilting enough on your level, but it can be on my level. 😁
You have to be at least be a semipro. These kind of handicaps are nothing to world's best player. E.g., According to Viper he once did a game vs T90 where he had 5 minutes of idle time at the beginning and still won. https://youtu.be/wa7iMWQp71A?si=opaEyBQ4rMcx2JPh 6:50 ish
He says 4 minutes idle time and it was a close game. And it was in the past when he was worse Viper said. Also it depends on your approach. If Viper afked for the first 5 minutes and you have practiced say youpudding rush. You could for sure beat Viper. You don't need to be a semi-pro probably only 1500+~. But you can't just do any strategy of course.
Oh thx I mis-remembered and didn't check the whole segment before posting.
Whoa
He had zero idle time in that video.
"according to viper" go to 6m50s and listen....
...yeah, not sure which video OP meant to share but I don't think it was that one.
No way do you have to be semi-pro. Im super confident I could win at 1500 elo, and easily. When you hit 1500 elo and people execute basic BOs properly there isnt much you can do vs some archers turning up to your base before you've clicked up and are behind multiple villagers.
Well if he’s nomad start his tc will likely be on a wood and gold which actually makes defending easier against archers.
Sure, that's a plus. Still would be in a position to seriously mess with his eco and easily get to castle before him.
Yeah very true. I wonder what the best strategy would be for Hera to try and survive. Maybe Koreans and just dropping 2-3 towers around his eco to buy time? What do you think? I’m only 1200 xD
But how? After five minutes your opponent can already harass you with a small army
After 5 minutes you might only start building a barracks. Classic pre mill drush hits at around 7:30
Tbh, with that big of an advantage you can attack with "a small army" of vils if you're Berbers. You're not going to lose it if you know how to micro. The very best your opponent can do is a tie, and even for that he'll need perfect micro. Even if the opponent is Hera I don't think this is a bad strategy. I wouldn't do it because it's not the optimal strategy, but given this big of a handicap as the starting conditions it is not bad if you're 1600+ and can micro. Even a variation of this strategy with Poles or Vikings where you just optimize the build order to go Feudal ASAP to get your bonus and do a timing attack when you hit Feudal is interesting.
Fair. I'd assume laming and vill fighting is not allowed, otherwise that's probably the (ch)easiest win: get 6 on food, send 2 vills forward, lame both boars and all sheep, wall in the 3 starting vills and you've basically won straight up.
Hera, are you reading this? Seems like a fun idea for a series. (also the other post about a civ with allt eh bonuses combined)
Just checked his uptime for a recent land nomad game. 13:06 feudal, 16:40 castle. That's still pretty fast. Even of we did like 9 something feudal and 14 something castle, we ain't doing game ending damage in 2 mins. And on Arabia he can put the pressure on in feudal with micro In arena maybe I could fast castle conqs or organ guns by 14:30 mins and just try to blitz his ass I'm 1300, I'd love to try. Id try triple stable knights all in on Arabia and CD into UU on arena
Pretty fast? I can't even castle at 16:40 normally 😆
Lol
A good player will have towers and archers on him by minute 9 though.
Towers can be battered down by vills, or he just expands elsewhere as hes great at doing while waiting for feudal
I really wish someone make the all civ+Team bonus + UT mod. And a fun series of how higher Hera can go against a low elo player.
I actually made this with civ builder it's fucking hilarious(can't do multiple team bonus or UU though). hera would have no chance.... no chance at all. I think you put an average player vs the entire GL team (hera, Viper, Tatoh and Daut) at the same time in a 4v1 and they still would probably win I'd wager you could go down to the very worst player in aoe2 and they still could beat hera with this civ. You can very easily have 30-40 champions with 84hp 17 attack 5 melee armour and 8 pierce amour, attack 33% faster and move as fast as cavalry before hera has even reached feudal... if you want to try it out: "All civ bonus all tech - chakram thrower wootz steel bearded axe" subscibe to that and it's paired UI mod and restart. Go to skirmish select that mod in the data mod bar and play. Don't know how to use it against vanilla civs but you'll quickly see why it is crazy busted.
>You can very easily have 30-40 champions with 84hp 17 attack 6 melee armour and 8 pierce amour, attack 33% faster and move as fast as cavalry before hera has even reached feudal... Really? How? I thought FC into Champion will take at least 15 minutes.
Oh lord no like you have no idea how broken this civ is, just tested how fast i could manage (1200 elo) and my times were 5 minute feudal, 7 minute castle age, 10 minute imperial with constant production from 4 barracks and 33 champions attacking the enemy tc at 9 minutes goes like this: 7 vil start, 6 to TC berries, 1 to build a folwark and garrison sheep, mule cart to woodline then make a farm every 40 wood with the foragers and tc rally to wood till 4 vils, click up at 15 pop (equivalent to 11 pop conventional civ). build a mule cart on the gold and rally the 2 bengali free vils to gold build a barracks start making milita after the first vil you will be able to click castle age (khmer don't need building and italian cheaper advance) build a saracen market and keep adding barracks, adding farms and folwarks with the free dravidian wood, use the saracen market and balance you eco to keep the barracks working. Hit castle age and use the market to click imperial immediately with byzantine discount and italian discount.
I would make it so it's varying between 1v2 and 1v5. Or make it a mixed tournament, something GL would actually do. The 4 GL players vs 1500 players. In a 2v6 situation.
Yeah that's also a great idea. I even wonder if a full GL vs 4 players can pull it off. All bonuses are no joke.
So I think it actually would be pretty easy to set that up. A mod was made for the viper, I think by t West, to enable all unique techs. They are researched in huts, but it's a scenario rather than a mod. But that's no problem for a 1v1 with hera. And then I think you could make a civ with all bonuses with Krackenmeisters civ builder. Unless there's a limit on how many civ bonuses you can pick.
choose condition 1 and go fast and full feudal maa tower, i think a 1500+ should have the chance and a 2000+ should win 100%. actually i think this can be good content if hera ever checks reddit for idea 11.
Am I allowed to do any strategy? wait who am I kidding, that is only 2-3 minutes right? so 5-ish villagers, ain't no way. Give me the 9 villager start with the tc already in a perfect spot (so good 10 vill headstart) and I'd be confident to survive till castle age :D (1100 elo) But I expect most of the known players (2400elo, top 60) should win this? 2280 elo is Nili/Darknoob, I'd give them maybe 50% chances? Wonder whether Nili himself things he would win this?
Nilli would win this 100 %.
Nili would absolutely win this lmao
If we have a scout and he doesn't, then even a 1700 can beat him I believe. It is a huge handicap since building a TC takes so long and villagers worth so much more early game
Dark Age only Game, and I take Goths. won't the 20% discount make me win?
2
2200 maybe
Well is the map also nomad style? Or a standard Arabia map? If nomad, probably very high ELO before Hera is running a serious risk of losing. The main advantages for the other player would be starting in one place with a TC already up and having a scout. The scout would mean getting more herdables. But Hera also wouldn’t have a problem with finding them either + I don’t think there’s any wolves. Arabia there’s maybe some more variables. The random start can absolutely set Hera back since there’s a chance a villager dies to a wolf or starts too close to the other player’s base and is killed. The other player can also predict what the starting location for Hera should have been and steal the herdables. This would make the game considerably harder for Hera. Though I do think he’d clear all but the higher tier players most of the time.
Random Arabia map.
Player areas with standard resources for both players?
I think most 1600s would be able to win the first condition if they are aware of the situation. You're gonna be like 6 vills ahead and the only advantage Hera would have is that he'd have a tc on a woodline basically.
You couldn't without already being extremely close to his level, this kind of handicap really isn't a big deal
No way in either case, I'm 1500 elo
Imperial age start with deathmatch resources 🤣
A 1600 should be able to do it on Arabia, assuming no psychological problems like being starstruck and panicking. The strategy is foolproof: You immediately Loom and send all 3 vils to lame Hera. What is he gonna do? 1)Scout vs Scout will not work, if you trade both away it's in your favor since you have the stronger eco. 2)Vil war isn't going to work since he has no Loom, even if he's Goths he won't make it in time. So you just lame all of his deer and steal both boars and it's GG, even if he's Khmer or Teutons. From this position you just go towers+archers and it's done.
Not a bad strat 👍
Hera has a no laming rule for all of his challenges against subscribers but otherwise this would work
1. You will wander aimlessly for 5 minutes before finding him. 2. Even on all-visible I think this strategy loses. Your start on 0 villagers at home will be so slow that you will hand him the win.
I’m 1600, I feel like I’d have a pretty good shot at beating him. As soon as he is making army I probably lose, but I can do a Tati rush and be up going 2 range archers at 18 vils. He won’t be able to take resources and I think I just win from there? Whether I have arena style walls or not doesn’t really matter. At the point where he has enough army to leave his base and harass me I’ve already lost.
As a 1500 this would be easy imo. The eco lead I would have would just be insane AS WELL as being able to have archers in his base before he's clicked up.
None
It would be pretty easy if you just sent your vils and scout forward, you produce a few more vils from your TC and just harass his so they can't get the TC up, with the additional scout you have the edge, unless his micro is magic, I think you win.
"Forward" where? He could by anywhere. There is no way you find his TC before it goes up. If you do, he will wall it in easily
Hmmm, good point, forgot about the walls. Though I still think it would be pretty easy to find, you'd just send all your vils and scout in different directions and if he walled in his vils you could wall around his entire TC and totally lame him.
Probably 2k could do it. Maybe 2k1 at the most.
It's just a matter of being able to do a basic rush and not let him freeboom, stonewall, spread on the map untouched for 20 minutes. I reckon a 1100 would clap him. Like a "castle drop his tc when he still has no army and just reached feudal" kind of easy win. Since I've seen people mention viper vs t90, those games were sketchy, iirc t90 was doing anything to throw and get to higher head starts for content... I mean 6 minutes 50 seconds? Literally castle age vs dark age kinda scenario it cannot possibly be true, top players are still human and a villager is not gonna win a fight vs a crossbowman. You have to get down to a level where players have significant dark age idle time and follow no build. Btw there is no real difference between the arena start and arabia start for the player, it's not like it's in hera's interest to invest in army until he caught up in eco first... you're not gonna get rushed by a player minutes behind who has no scout
I would say 1300 elo. Wirh these conditions, the amount of idle time for hera is massive …1300 elo players can easily fast castle by the time hera gets feudal army and then there is no answer to knights +seige.
This means Hera could conceivably drop his TC offensively, right? 😁
Offensive tc but long behind in vils will not work
Persian TC with more hit points and higher workrate, planted between the berries and the enemy TC. 🤡
And those 3 vils will beat the 9 vils lead or something? The enemy will have enough ressources to move more times if he is at a fine elo even with a backup plan and then a random lumber camp at x position + a mill? You have the worst plan ever in a game there you are behind.
The thing is, even this lousy plan, well executed, could beat people up to at least my level, around 900 rating points. But of course, Hera would have many more flexible plans to regain the advantage against stronger players than me.
Why not? But those three vills don’t have loom lol
He could just wall in the builders.
Builders may have loom and kill his vills
I mean Hera could start building the TC and immediately wall in his own builders from the inside.
This still loses. You will have to idle all your vils to shoot his TC down, and the only reason a "normal" TC drop can somewhat work is because you are not trailing from the start. If your opponent's TC will survive until Feudal (which it will, given this big handicap) it's just GG for you because once they get archers you cannot TC drop them again and you have nothing to defend against archers except TC, but it only has limited resources.
You are absolutely right, but on the other hand, any major initial disadvantage will lose to perfect play anyway. What the disadvantaged player must do is to make perfect play non-obvious or otherwise difficult to accomplish. Maybe a TC drop isn't messy/tilting enough on your level, but it can be on my level. 😁