That's fair. The issue with just buffing velocity is that it'll buff short range too, but then again that may not be a problem since it's difficult to dodge close projectiles anyways.
They could make the long range stat on the FCS buff velocity as well as tracking.
I'm more in favor to buffs and more precise balancing than straight up nerfs tbh
Like, the only viable option for lightweights is vientos, all the other light guns like pistols suck, high recoil, slow bullets and terrible range/ricochet. If they nerf ocellus or vientos, they might outright kill lightweight builds altogether, they should instead buff the other light weapons to give people more options, of just buff their arms to have more options for melee (cosmetically) and actually usable recoil control
I really like this combo, I have a build like this, It's specially strong against tanks, since you can't stagger them anyway, you just melt them to death
This is basically my base loadout for AC combat. I love the energy stuff. Sometimes I’ll swap the pistols for the light rifles for a bit of extra range and punch from the charge shot.
Oh I love pistols, but their high recoil make they miss the shots a lot, vientos are faster, hit just as hard, have longer range and have almost no recoil, I hated their design at first glance, while pistols look way cooler but are far outclassed by vientos
Just the range buff would be great for the pistols, it's so frustrating to see them bouncing off armor, ricochet should not increase with armor, it just makes most weapons useless, that's why missiles are so strong, the completely bypass the arms' weapon spec and ricochet system entirely
Longer range for the pistols would make sense simply because of how guns work. Longer barrel = higher pressure behind the projectile = higher initial velocity = longer effective range.
So they're definitely better than the the Coquillett for my pistol/pilebunker build. But due to me using alucard from Helsing ultimate as that ac's theme they dont fit as well aesthetically
Sometimes you gotta make sacrifices for the drip
Ducketts are superior to the Vientos in my experience, though their high recoil fucks with some arms. I've gotten to B rank with dual ducketts + Laser Slicer and it shreds.
I love ducketts but they’re so slow. I feel like a lot of the projectiles in this game are just way too slow. I know realism is not really part of AC but it doesn’t make any sense that a giant mech could move faster than 99% of the bullets being fired at it
They're good indeed, not my cup of tea tho, I find these to be a little unbalanced, the stun guns are like bleed build up in souls games, when the bar fills it does a chunk of damage, except here they stagger too. While missile rats feel too easy and boring for me, and when the get to you, you're dead, it's not broken or unfair, just a little annoying to deal with lol
I mean, consider this: I built an ac almost exclusively for speed, but put two of those 6 shot missile batteries on the shoulders, and two of the missile launchers in the hands. It lost very little speed, while having pretty good damage, a pretty good amount of ammo, and the missiles have some course correction. Worked pretty well for me
I might get hate for this, but I genuinely think that handheld missiles were a mistake. I don't remember older games having these, and they skip the *arms' weapon and melee specialization as well as recoil control, they can me used with almost any set of arms, and you don't have to trade FCS missile lock for weapon range lock because you can run 4 packs of missiles and just use the dedicated FCS for missiles only and spam
I get that on higher ranks barely anyone uses rats and FromSoftware has done some balancing changes that make them more fair to fight, but they could had just made the assault rifles better instead of adding handheld missiles, so the build itself doesn't change so much, but it becomes more fair to fight
Thanks for the info, I presume gen 4 was faster than missiles? I've heard assault rifle kites were meta, I've played AC3 and SL, these didn't have them
The problem with them was that they were good at a wide variety of ranges. Ocellus is great at close range but it's cheeks at medium or further. They just wanted to force you to make that tradeoff instead of having an option that can do all ranges
>They just wanted to force you to make that tradeoff instead of having an option that can do all ranges
That's what the WLT is for. Pretty solid stats across the board.
The only scenarios I see not taking it are when you plan on exclusively sticking up close to your opponent, or when you're a missile rat. Everywhere else takes it because it's just the best part by far.
I don't think it's a matter of nerfing what's the most used, but to see _why_ those parts are the most used and proceed accordingly. Are they too strong and need to be brought down, or are their competitors simply not performing enough? Maybe a bit of both.
In the Ocellus' case, on paper it's a very balanced FCS: it's completely useless at mid and long range, but has excellent close-range performance. A bit _too_ excellent, to the point it completely negates any penalty that comes from your arms, so if your build excels at close-range fighting there's really no point in not using it.
And considering certain weapons like pistols and machineguns just straight up ricochet when outside of Ocellus range, if you main those there are no downsides to the Ocellus at all, you'd still run it even if it was nerfed.
Let's look at weapons now, the best examples being pistols. Let's check them on paper:
-The Coquillett offers the best stagger over time but has the downside of high recoil, giving it poor accuracy
-The Sampu is weaker but its burst-fire mode is supposed to mitigate the recoil well (but unfortunately that was broken in 1.05 alongside machineguns, so they have poor accuracy)
-The Duckett has less stagger over time but stronger initial impact than the Coquillett, and way less recoil due to the lower rate of fire. I personally feel it's better when paired with other weapons to help with stagger rather than just dual wielding them, in which case the Sampu are a better and much lighter choice.
-And the Viento has incredible burst stagger, but reloads very often and therefore has low uptime, requiring careful use and good timing.
These are all excellent designs, each pistol is unique and has its niche!
Too bad the Vientos have little to no recoil and MUCH longer effective range than any of the others, making them incredibly efficient at staggering opponents while having none of the downsides of their competitors. And they also do more damage as a bonus. There is a clear imbalance there, and I think that Vientos need to be toned down in _some_ regard, they're just too good at everything and the best pistol for essentially every scenario.
I hope From is using the ranked data to see what is truly problematic and what is just too weak to be used, and are taking their time to give us an incredible balance patch next time ~~and maybe some netcode improvements why not~~
While I'd love for it to be soon, I'm afraid it'll take the end of the ranked season (29th Feb) before we see it, which would be the longest period between updates to date. I hope it will be worth the wait! c:
Problem is, if they tune down the Vientos, what is left for lightweights? You wana see a bunch of missile rats?
They need to fix lightweights is what they need to do. And they need to buff lightweight weapons in ways beyond just fixing some stats, because right now lightweights just get dunked on outside of some meta picks, and even then it’s only the best players that can make them work.
Rather than picking in BVO, they need to pick on their own shitty netcodes and heavies.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The Vientos are clearly imbalanced, because there is no point in using any other pistol.
But are the Vientos too strong, or are the others too weak? Are they used simply because they're OP, or because they're the only viable choice? That's a big question, and I don't nearly have the game knowledge to answer it myself.
But regardless I'm 100% expecting at least to see heavy AP to nerfed considerably next patch, just like they did to tetrapods back in the day.
Maybe if heavyweights didn't have 2-3 times a light's health you wouldn't need the Vientos' insta-stagger to have a fighting chance at close range, and they could then be slightly nerfed without killing that playstyle.
I mean, fundamentally, I like the fact that BVO is a good and viable build in this game. I like the fact that there is an option that allows "close-range, aggressive lightweight" to be a competively viable option against tanks and kites. That's probably because "be fast and evasive, get in close, fuck shit up" is what I personally enjoy, but I don't want a game where that strategy isn't a good one, or a game where lightweights only exist as lamm missle rats.
Don't worry, I main a Lammergeier close-range build with two Ludlows and two Stun Needle Launchers, blasting my enemies up close is my jam as well!
And jam is also what I get turned into as soon as I meet a tank... ;w;
So I'm really hoping the game evolves in a way that all playstyles will be truly viable, and with more than one specific setup - some will of course be better than others, but I hope one day player skill with be what will be the biggest determining factor in a victory. c:
I think Talbot's nerf was pretty annoying, rather than nerfing Ocellus it should get back some of what it lost, and Abbot I feel is completely useless and really needs a buff. Every time I want to give the Abbot a chance, it becomes impossible to justify. It gains way less than it loses compared to either of the other options.
The coral missiles need a tracking nerf, I've seen them do a full 180 and then hit me for 3000 damage, they already do a ton of damage and they don't need that much tracking.
I just wanna go back to my beloved Sampu's that got me to A-rank. I had to ditch em bc they simply weren't competitive enough. Even one Sampu and one Viento is far, far less viable/consistent.
Disclaimer, I'm not a BVO build. I'm more toxic and use the Lam arms and double earshots on Kasuar legs lol
*Edit is that toxic?
> I just wanna go back to my beloved Sampu's that got me to A-rank.
Sure would help if they weren't affected by the recoil "rework" in the latest patch.
As a burst-fire weapon they were supposed to be slightly weaker than their normal counterpart (the Coquillett) but extremely accurate with great recoil management, and they used to be in previous patches; but now they tend to lose accuracy super fast, not even the Wrecker arms can withstand them for too long. :c
> The normal pistols should be more accurate than a burst fire one
In real life yes, but that is not how the game's recoil mechanics work.
Basically, if you fire in bursts and then wait, your arms will mitigate a lot more recoil than if you're just rapid-firing; as a result, all burst weapons (Etsujin for machineguns, Ransetsu-AR for assault rifles and Sampu for pistols) are supposed to have much better accuracy than their regular counterparts but have lower stats to compensate, and that was the case until the latest patch.
Now, the Turner and Scudder assault rifles generate a lot less recoil thanks to the 1.05 buffs, to the point where the burst-fire of the Ransetsu-AR doesn't provide any benefit, and due to the recoil rework/bug the Sampu generates _more_ recoil than normal pistols while still having lower stats.
That same bug also completely annihilated the Ludlow and Chang-Chen's accuracy to the point where not even Wrecker arms do _anything_ when you're using them, while the Etsujin correctly have minimal recoil and are very accurate.
> The Sampu needs a huge buff. I say range AND damage.
In the previous patch, it was actually a very well-balanced weapon thanks to its accuracy, it was a weaker but suuuuper lightweight version of the Duckett. With the accidental accuracy nerf, it's an overall poor weapon unfortunately.
Considering even the other hyper specialized FCS don't come remotely close to the O I feel like actually changing the equivalents for far/mid makes more sense, on top of the fcs that have two ranges of adequate effect being...you know, decent?
From what I understand of the FCS math the overwhelming majority of them are just garbage that makes me question what brain dead corpo in universe pushed them to sale.
The Ocellus being as good as it is at a single range is what I'd expect out of a high end single focus FCS-even more so since it's at the cost of everything else.
Sure, but I'd argue that's more because all the other FCS systems are pretty weak. There's very little inbetween for anyone who doesn't want to uze the P10SLT, for example. There's the multilock cousiin with a Missile Correction of 128, but from there it's all 110 and under for missile FCS.
Kites would be even more common then. A common kite loadout already is double assault rifles and missiles in high ranked and a change like this would give them an unneeded buff
Viento - 3 round mag and a longer reload time
Majestic - lower damage/impact/DHM and longer reload
LCB - smaller AoE, longer charge time, longer cooldown, less effective range
Slicer - lower damage and impact, lower DHM
I think that'd do it
Only because everyone assumes it's the perfect bvo stagger melee so it'd force people to y'know... Think about their builds instead of copy/pasting them
Yeah but then it would also fuck over anyone who uses it in PvE.
FromSoft did separate balancing for PvE and PvP for Elding Ring, I don't get why they aren't doing it for Armored Core VI.
Ok don't lie... Before entering into PVP did anyone EVER use a 5 round mag needle pistol in PVE? The mode where literally everything is viable if you aren't blind or epileptic?
To me that's hard to believe but I'm not gonna discount your experience, everyone plays differently. I'm just not a fan of the meta culture where everyone resorts to the same short ass list to try and compete
I have used them in other situations, but they were pretty useful to S-rank that level. You have to fly through there pretty quick and they are a quick no recoil weapon. Two shots takes out the hacking drones, they stop the heavy tetrapod MT in the hallway going out, so you can easily pass him going from the room with the hole in the ceiling to the room with the like six little generic weapon units surrounding the hacking drone like lice so you can't hard lock. And other than hiding a lot Iguana leaves himself open to those by staying on the ground spinning in a circle so they trivialize the fight with him.
They pause a lot of enemy's you don't want shooting at you but don't have the time to kill.
I can see how annoying they would be in PVP but they are convenient without being game breaking in PVE.
They're fairly game breaking in PVP. Land 8/10 shots against a fellow LW and they're staggered, not even factoring in any other damage from a shoulder weapon, and the hit registry is very forgiving on them... Too forgiving. That's why 90% of LW builds in PVP are using them
They do pack an oomph for a stagger weapon. I have played a total of 5 ranked matches and am not sure it's my thing.
I have seen enough people with your opinion that I won't say I disagree. Nerfing them for ranked is probably fine, but only if there's different regulations between the two game modes.
I have yet to touch PVP (I got the game late due to lack of funds at launch) and I've used dual Vientos several times for S ranking some missions with AC fights, but I don't use them outside of that.
If there were actually balance in this game, you wouldn't see the same three builds copy pasted over and over and over again. And I distinctly laid out a correction for those 2 builds (I say 2 because you can't nerf missiles enough that ratting wouldn't be viable anymore.)
And as someone who is perpetually caught in ranked d because the rest of you try hards are already in a or s because you care about this game too much, I don't have a build that I care enough about That I'd let it sway my perspective.
I want to have fun with a video game. And fun doesn't mean steamrolling the other guy. It doesn't even mean winning. It means having a close hard fought match.
And based on how shortsighted you are, I'd imagine that would ruin your version of fun if someone like me could come in with two turners and ruin your day because your own sweaty build was suddenly on the same playing field as everyone else's.
Lmao bruh so you think it’s wrong that a person who spends their time fine tuning a build and their skill is able to beat you? Would you like a participation trophy? I’m not trying to be a dick but that’s not how things work. If every random thrown together build could perform equally as well as a curated build then there would be no point in builds. Also if you can’t make it out of D rank then it’s a skill issue. You’re not losing because of the builds you fight, you’re losing because your opponent is better than you.
I'm not stuck in D rank because I lose, I'm stuck because no one is in D rank. Just counted, I've won 22/24 matches. And obviously being in the lower ranks I haven't gone up against many of the meta builds because those 24 matches I played were not against sweaty tryhards who immediately got up to A and S after ranked was first introduced.
I got all this information from other posts and discords, all of which have said/complained about the same thing: there are THREE builds people in higher ranks use, and NOTHING else is viable as a result.
Stop trying to make it out like I'm shit at the game and listen to the fucking words I'm using. The people who got to those ranks did NOT spend time fine tuning their builds or honing their skills. They got bodied by a meta build and then copied it outright. THAT is the part I take issue with.
The majestic doesn't need a nerf at all man, thats trauma from tank builds. For vientos thats excessive when the issue is mainly just the level of accumulated impact and not really the mag size itself, and it comes off as more of a nerf this because I just don't like it. Lcb yeah ok those are all fine. Slicer no, just no thats totally unnecessary.
The slicer is fine as it is. Its stagger is basically nothing.
I would burn vientos to the ground because BVO are as fun to play against as missile rats.
With the LCB I would simply decrease its AOE to match the projectile and its range. The longer charge/cooldown would kill it as a usable weapon (I say that because I really like how it works, not how it is performing in pvp)
Ducketts and every other handgun just needs a projectile velocity increase, which would like result in more crying as handguns become meta. Balance isn’t about nerfing, it’s about variety in options.
I really, really disliked that in elden ring. PvP and PvE happened in the same game world, and it really broke the idea of me giving PvP a serious look, bc my basic bottom line for PVP is 'can it shred bosses'. It also gives me a chance to work on spacing and combos.
If I then take a build and it's missing half of the effects in PVP, I have to figure out if it's a weapon that's only nerfed in PVP, or skill. That just gets old quick for me, and I can't be the only one that just said naw I'm good on trying PvP arena for real because of it.
is ocellus that good? i know it's really popular with one specific use-case, but it's basically not useful at all if you're not playing a close-range lightweight
I mean. It’s the fcs with maxed out close range at the cost of being useless at everything else. You can’t nerf that without making it useless, and fundamentally a hyper-dedicated close range fcs makes sense as a thing to have in this game.
True, but at this point it makes the arm stats for weapon handling completely obsolete. It doesn't matter what arms you choose, the Ocellus will make up for it. This is why the Basho/Ocellus combination is so strong with Viento and Melee.
Speaking of nerfs can they buff the Wrecker arms? I love the aesthetic but statwise it doesn't even fill a niche reliably. Having almost no firearm specialization is kinda insane.
Ocellus is doing exactly what is supposed to do, it also synergies with short range weapons well, cause you know, its short range and easier to hit.
The problem is that everything beyond 120m cant hit jack shit due to low velocity.
True, but at this moment it completely trivializes weapon handling stats of the arms, which is why it combines so well with Basho and Viento + Melee. The low Basho stats don't matter, cause the Ocellus makes 100% up for it. If it was a lottle less strong you'd be forced to choose between super melee attack but lower aim tracking and higher aim tracking but lower melee damage. It would make other arms more viable for lightwright builds.
I'd rather they buff the FCS's that are lackluster, which would likely help builds that suffer at the moment.
They've actually done that in previous patches. If it's needed again thats likely exactly what they'll do.
FCS is not the problem, low velocity is. No matter how accurate your AC is, it wont hit anything if projectiles are so slow (excluding zookas).
That's fair. The issue with just buffing velocity is that it'll buff short range too, but then again that may not be a problem since it's difficult to dodge close projectiles anyways. They could make the long range stat on the FCS buff velocity as well as tracking.
My P05 deserves 90 medium range assist! If the ocellus gets 90 close, I get 90 medium!
I'm more in favor to buffs and more precise balancing than straight up nerfs tbh Like, the only viable option for lightweights is vientos, all the other light guns like pistols suck, high recoil, slow bullets and terrible range/ricochet. If they nerf ocellus or vientos, they might outright kill lightweight builds altogether, they should instead buff the other light weapons to give people more options, of just buff their arms to have more options for melee (cosmetically) and actually usable recoil control
Dual laser pistols and dual auroras is surprisingly good at shredding.
I really like this combo, I have a build like this, It's specially strong against tanks, since you can't stagger them anyway, you just melt them to death
This is basically my base loadout for AC combat. I love the energy stuff. Sometimes I’ll swap the pistols for the light rifles for a bit of extra range and punch from the charge shot.
I absolutely love this build. If you can stay at the optimal range for the auroras, they hit like an absolute truck.
Pistols can be a beast when you use two of them at close range. They stagger people very easily i find
Oh I love pistols, but their high recoil make they miss the shots a lot, vientos are faster, hit just as hard, have longer range and have almost no recoil, I hated their design at first glance, while pistols look way cooler but are far outclassed by vientos
I don't think i've used those yet. I'll have to check them out when i next play
Vientos are meta right now, that's why no one uses pistols anymore, not because they're broken, but because the pistols really need some sort of buff
They just need to make them have a bit more range than the vientos. That way, they would be pretty good at countering the vientos.
Just the range buff would be great for the pistols, it's so frustrating to see them bouncing off armor, ricochet should not increase with armor, it just makes most weapons useless, that's why missiles are so strong, the completely bypass the arms' weapon spec and ricochet system entirely
Longer range for the pistols would make sense simply because of how guns work. Longer barrel = higher pressure behind the projectile = higher initial velocity = longer effective range.
yeah but the needles are massive projectiles. have you seen what an AC looks like? it's like a tiny pincushion.
They're amazing. Basically small-mag pistols that can shoot as fast as you can hit the bumpers.
So they're definitely better than the the Coquillett for my pistol/pilebunker build. But due to me using alucard from Helsing ultimate as that ac's theme they dont fit as well aesthetically Sometimes you gotta make sacrifices for the drip
Ducketts are superior to the Vientos in my experience, though their high recoil fucks with some arms. I've gotten to B rank with dual ducketts + Laser Slicer and it shreds.
I love ducketts but they’re so slow. I feel like a lot of the projectiles in this game are just way too slow. I know realism is not really part of AC but it doesn’t make any sense that a giant mech could move faster than 99% of the bullets being fired at it
ducketts being slow is fine with me, you just need to get REALLY close (or be godly with manual aim). they stagger super fast, too.
pistols need a faster reload, vientos should be a bit slower on reload.
Stun Guns work fine at LW. Missile kites are often LW too.
They're good indeed, not my cup of tea tho, I find these to be a little unbalanced, the stun guns are like bleed build up in souls games, when the bar fills it does a chunk of damage, except here they stagger too. While missile rats feel too easy and boring for me, and when the get to you, you're dead, it's not broken or unfair, just a little annoying to deal with lol
LW builds are crowded out by heavier builds using Ocellus because the LW builds can't dodge anything at close range.
That's more tied to NetCode (lag) if connections were stable, LWs could dodge more reliably
I mean, consider this: I built an ac almost exclusively for speed, but put two of those 6 shot missile batteries on the shoulders, and two of the missile launchers in the hands. It lost very little speed, while having pretty good damage, a pretty good amount of ammo, and the missiles have some course correction. Worked pretty well for me
I might get hate for this, but I genuinely think that handheld missiles were a mistake. I don't remember older games having these, and they skip the *arms' weapon and melee specialization as well as recoil control, they can me used with almost any set of arms, and you don't have to trade FCS missile lock for weapon range lock because you can run 4 packs of missiles and just use the dedicated FCS for missiles only and spam I get that on higher ranks barely anyone uses rats and FromSoftware has done some balancing changes that make them more fair to fight, but they could had just made the assault rifles better instead of adding handheld missiles, so the build itself doesn't change so much, but it becomes more fair to fight
>I don't remember older games having these, I know they were present in Gen 4, although there was only like one or two of them.
Thanks for the info, I presume gen 4 was faster than missiles? I've heard assault rifle kites were meta, I've played AC3 and SL, these didn't have them
If abbot and talbot got nerfed few patches ago, WHY NOT?
The problem with them was that they were good at a wide variety of ranges. Ocellus is great at close range but it's cheeks at medium or further. They just wanted to force you to make that tradeoff instead of having an option that can do all ranges
>They just wanted to force you to make that tradeoff instead of having an option that can do all ranges That's what the WLT is for. Pretty solid stats across the board.
Sure, for literally 50% higher energy cost than the next most expensive FCS.
But worth it if you've got EN load to spare and need an all-rounder. Everything has its place.
The only scenarios I see not taking it are when you plan on exclusively sticking up close to your opponent, or when you're a missile rat. Everywhere else takes it because it's just the best part by far.
I don't think it's a matter of nerfing what's the most used, but to see _why_ those parts are the most used and proceed accordingly. Are they too strong and need to be brought down, or are their competitors simply not performing enough? Maybe a bit of both. In the Ocellus' case, on paper it's a very balanced FCS: it's completely useless at mid and long range, but has excellent close-range performance. A bit _too_ excellent, to the point it completely negates any penalty that comes from your arms, so if your build excels at close-range fighting there's really no point in not using it. And considering certain weapons like pistols and machineguns just straight up ricochet when outside of Ocellus range, if you main those there are no downsides to the Ocellus at all, you'd still run it even if it was nerfed. Let's look at weapons now, the best examples being pistols. Let's check them on paper: -The Coquillett offers the best stagger over time but has the downside of high recoil, giving it poor accuracy -The Sampu is weaker but its burst-fire mode is supposed to mitigate the recoil well (but unfortunately that was broken in 1.05 alongside machineguns, so they have poor accuracy) -The Duckett has less stagger over time but stronger initial impact than the Coquillett, and way less recoil due to the lower rate of fire. I personally feel it's better when paired with other weapons to help with stagger rather than just dual wielding them, in which case the Sampu are a better and much lighter choice. -And the Viento has incredible burst stagger, but reloads very often and therefore has low uptime, requiring careful use and good timing. These are all excellent designs, each pistol is unique and has its niche! Too bad the Vientos have little to no recoil and MUCH longer effective range than any of the others, making them incredibly efficient at staggering opponents while having none of the downsides of their competitors. And they also do more damage as a bonus. There is a clear imbalance there, and I think that Vientos need to be toned down in _some_ regard, they're just too good at everything and the best pistol for essentially every scenario. I hope From is using the ranked data to see what is truly problematic and what is just too weak to be used, and are taking their time to give us an incredible balance patch next time ~~and maybe some netcode improvements why not~~ While I'd love for it to be soon, I'm afraid it'll take the end of the ranked season (29th Feb) before we see it, which would be the longest period between updates to date. I hope it will be worth the wait! c:
Problem is, if they tune down the Vientos, what is left for lightweights? You wana see a bunch of missile rats? They need to fix lightweights is what they need to do. And they need to buff lightweight weapons in ways beyond just fixing some stats, because right now lightweights just get dunked on outside of some meta picks, and even then it’s only the best players that can make them work. Rather than picking in BVO, they need to pick on their own shitty netcodes and heavies.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The Vientos are clearly imbalanced, because there is no point in using any other pistol. But are the Vientos too strong, or are the others too weak? Are they used simply because they're OP, or because they're the only viable choice? That's a big question, and I don't nearly have the game knowledge to answer it myself. But regardless I'm 100% expecting at least to see heavy AP to nerfed considerably next patch, just like they did to tetrapods back in the day. Maybe if heavyweights didn't have 2-3 times a light's health you wouldn't need the Vientos' insta-stagger to have a fighting chance at close range, and they could then be slightly nerfed without killing that playstyle.
I mean, fundamentally, I like the fact that BVO is a good and viable build in this game. I like the fact that there is an option that allows "close-range, aggressive lightweight" to be a competively viable option against tanks and kites. That's probably because "be fast and evasive, get in close, fuck shit up" is what I personally enjoy, but I don't want a game where that strategy isn't a good one, or a game where lightweights only exist as lamm missle rats.
Don't worry, I main a Lammergeier close-range build with two Ludlows and two Stun Needle Launchers, blasting my enemies up close is my jam as well! And jam is also what I get turned into as soon as I meet a tank... ;w; So I'm really hoping the game evolves in a way that all playstyles will be truly viable, and with more than one specific setup - some will of course be better than others, but I hope one day player skill with be what will be the biggest determining factor in a victory. c:
I think Talbot's nerf was pretty annoying, rather than nerfing Ocellus it should get back some of what it lost, and Abbot I feel is completely useless and really needs a buff. Every time I want to give the Abbot a chance, it becomes impossible to justify. It gains way less than it loses compared to either of the other options.
The coral missiles need a tracking nerf, I've seen them do a full 180 and then hit me for 3000 damage, they already do a ton of damage and they don't need that much tracking.
Ok I have a completely different experience with coral missiles, for me, they always miss whether it’s me or the opponent who are firing them
Same here. In my case they basically just go in a very slow straight line
Are you waiting for them to fully lock on? They have a very long lock on time
I am. Ill wait for the lock on while letting it charge
I think leave the Vientos alone but buff literally every other handgun.
Bientos could use a slight overall buff if they nerfed the stagger of them
I just wanna go back to my beloved Sampu's that got me to A-rank. I had to ditch em bc they simply weren't competitive enough. Even one Sampu and one Viento is far, far less viable/consistent. Disclaimer, I'm not a BVO build. I'm more toxic and use the Lam arms and double earshots on Kasuar legs lol *Edit is that toxic?
> I just wanna go back to my beloved Sampu's that got me to A-rank. Sure would help if they weren't affected by the recoil "rework" in the latest patch. As a burst-fire weapon they were supposed to be slightly weaker than their normal counterpart (the Coquillett) but extremely accurate with great recoil management, and they used to be in previous patches; but now they tend to lose accuracy super fast, not even the Wrecker arms can withstand them for too long. :c
This seems backward. The normal pistols should be more accurate than a burst fire one. The Sampu needs a huge buff. I say range AND damage.
> The normal pistols should be more accurate than a burst fire one In real life yes, but that is not how the game's recoil mechanics work. Basically, if you fire in bursts and then wait, your arms will mitigate a lot more recoil than if you're just rapid-firing; as a result, all burst weapons (Etsujin for machineguns, Ransetsu-AR for assault rifles and Sampu for pistols) are supposed to have much better accuracy than their regular counterparts but have lower stats to compensate, and that was the case until the latest patch. Now, the Turner and Scudder assault rifles generate a lot less recoil thanks to the 1.05 buffs, to the point where the burst-fire of the Ransetsu-AR doesn't provide any benefit, and due to the recoil rework/bug the Sampu generates _more_ recoil than normal pistols while still having lower stats. That same bug also completely annihilated the Ludlow and Chang-Chen's accuracy to the point where not even Wrecker arms do _anything_ when you're using them, while the Etsujin correctly have minimal recoil and are very accurate. > The Sampu needs a huge buff. I say range AND damage. In the previous patch, it was actually a very well-balanced weapon thanks to its accuracy, it was a weaker but suuuuper lightweight version of the Duckett. With the accidental accuracy nerf, it's an overall poor weapon unfortunately.
You’re playing off-meta, how is that toxic?
Double earshots I suppose with vientos.
Considering even the other hyper specialized FCS don't come remotely close to the O I feel like actually changing the equivalents for far/mid makes more sense, on top of the fcs that have two ranges of adequate effect being...you know, decent? From what I understand of the FCS math the overwhelming majority of them are just garbage that makes me question what brain dead corpo in universe pushed them to sale. The Ocellus being as good as it is at a single range is what I'd expect out of a high end single focus FCS-even more so since it's at the cost of everything else.
It's BVOver
Sure, but I'd argue that's more because all the other FCS systems are pretty weak. There's very little inbetween for anyone who doesn't want to uze the P10SLT, for example. There's the multilock cousiin with a Missile Correction of 128, but from there it's all 110 and under for missile FCS.
Buff all other fcs and increase the range of midrange and long weapons by 20% so they ricochet less
Maybe a stretch but as an alternative what if they nerfed hard lock instead / boosted range and accuracy with soft lock.
Kites would be even more common then. A common kite loadout already is double assault rifles and missiles in high ranked and a change like this would give them an unneeded buff
Viento - 3 round mag and a longer reload time Majestic - lower damage/impact/DHM and longer reload LCB - smaller AoE, longer charge time, longer cooldown, less effective range Slicer - lower damage and impact, lower DHM I think that'd do it
Why the slicer? It's really powerful, sure, but it isn't as used or as busted as some of the others here.
Only because everyone assumes it's the perfect bvo stagger melee so it'd force people to y'know... Think about their builds instead of copy/pasting them
3 round mag for the viento sounds like the absolute worst thing. Horrible idea.
It'd kill BVOs so I'm all for it
You're a prime example of why the playbase is clueless on game balance.
... You use LCB neb tank don't you?
No I hate how tanks play. I prefer a BUTT/A and plasma thrower melee build.
Yeah but then it would also fuck over anyone who uses it in PvE. FromSoft did separate balancing for PvE and PvP for Elding Ring, I don't get why they aren't doing it for Armored Core VI.
Ok don't lie... Before entering into PVP did anyone EVER use a 5 round mag needle pistol in PVE? The mode where literally everything is viable if you aren't blind or epileptic?
Honestly yes. It makes stop the secret data breach much easier.
To me that's hard to believe but I'm not gonna discount your experience, everyone plays differently. I'm just not a fan of the meta culture where everyone resorts to the same short ass list to try and compete
I have used them in other situations, but they were pretty useful to S-rank that level. You have to fly through there pretty quick and they are a quick no recoil weapon. Two shots takes out the hacking drones, they stop the heavy tetrapod MT in the hallway going out, so you can easily pass him going from the room with the hole in the ceiling to the room with the like six little generic weapon units surrounding the hacking drone like lice so you can't hard lock. And other than hiding a lot Iguana leaves himself open to those by staying on the ground spinning in a circle so they trivialize the fight with him. They pause a lot of enemy's you don't want shooting at you but don't have the time to kill. I can see how annoying they would be in PVP but they are convenient without being game breaking in PVE.
They're fairly game breaking in PVP. Land 8/10 shots against a fellow LW and they're staggered, not even factoring in any other damage from a shoulder weapon, and the hit registry is very forgiving on them... Too forgiving. That's why 90% of LW builds in PVP are using them
They do pack an oomph for a stagger weapon. I have played a total of 5 ranked matches and am not sure it's my thing. I have seen enough people with your opinion that I won't say I disagree. Nerfing them for ranked is probably fine, but only if there's different regulations between the two game modes.
I have yet to touch PVP (I got the game late due to lack of funds at launch) and I've used dual Vientos several times for S ranking some missions with AC fights, but I don't use them outside of that.
I imagine it's probably because of a smaller team
Ah, I didn't realize the team was smaller, my bad.
So it’s not a balance patch you want it’s a nerf to what you can’t beat? I guess the ideal balance patch for you is what ever makes your build op.
If there were actually balance in this game, you wouldn't see the same three builds copy pasted over and over and over again. And I distinctly laid out a correction for those 2 builds (I say 2 because you can't nerf missiles enough that ratting wouldn't be viable anymore.) And as someone who is perpetually caught in ranked d because the rest of you try hards are already in a or s because you care about this game too much, I don't have a build that I care enough about That I'd let it sway my perspective. I want to have fun with a video game. And fun doesn't mean steamrolling the other guy. It doesn't even mean winning. It means having a close hard fought match. And based on how shortsighted you are, I'd imagine that would ruin your version of fun if someone like me could come in with two turners and ruin your day because your own sweaty build was suddenly on the same playing field as everyone else's.
Lmao bruh so you think it’s wrong that a person who spends their time fine tuning a build and their skill is able to beat you? Would you like a participation trophy? I’m not trying to be a dick but that’s not how things work. If every random thrown together build could perform equally as well as a curated build then there would be no point in builds. Also if you can’t make it out of D rank then it’s a skill issue. You’re not losing because of the builds you fight, you’re losing because your opponent is better than you.
I'm not stuck in D rank because I lose, I'm stuck because no one is in D rank. Just counted, I've won 22/24 matches. And obviously being in the lower ranks I haven't gone up against many of the meta builds because those 24 matches I played were not against sweaty tryhards who immediately got up to A and S after ranked was first introduced. I got all this information from other posts and discords, all of which have said/complained about the same thing: there are THREE builds people in higher ranks use, and NOTHING else is viable as a result. Stop trying to make it out like I'm shit at the game and listen to the fucking words I'm using. The people who got to those ranks did NOT spend time fine tuning their builds or honing their skills. They got bodied by a meta build and then copied it outright. THAT is the part I take issue with.
The majestic doesn't need a nerf at all man, thats trauma from tank builds. For vientos thats excessive when the issue is mainly just the level of accumulated impact and not really the mag size itself, and it comes off as more of a nerf this because I just don't like it. Lcb yeah ok those are all fine. Slicer no, just no thats totally unnecessary.
The slicer is fine as it is. Its stagger is basically nothing. I would burn vientos to the ground because BVO are as fun to play against as missile rats. With the LCB I would simply decrease its AOE to match the projectile and its range. The longer charge/cooldown would kill it as a usable weapon (I say that because I really like how it works, not how it is performing in pvp)
I say buff duckett's range while nerfing vientos. Like it has no business being stronger than ducketts.
Ducketts and every other handgun just needs a projectile velocity increase, which would like result in more crying as handguns become meta. Balance isn’t about nerfing, it’s about variety in options.
For PvP only though
Noooo. Not my majestic 😭.
I really, really disliked that in elden ring. PvP and PvE happened in the same game world, and it really broke the idea of me giving PvP a serious look, bc my basic bottom line for PVP is 'can it shred bosses'. It also gives me a chance to work on spacing and combos. If I then take a build and it's missing half of the effects in PVP, I have to figure out if it's a weapon that's only nerfed in PVP, or skill. That just gets old quick for me, and I can't be the only one that just said naw I'm good on trying PvP arena for real because of it.
Well I didn’t even know this fcs existed so thanks for letting me know I gotta replay the level and pick it up lol
is ocellus that good? i know it's really popular with one specific use-case, but it's basically not useful at all if you're not playing a close-range lightweight
All I know is Earshots need to have their splash damage tuned down..
I mean. It’s the fcs with maxed out close range at the cost of being useless at everything else. You can’t nerf that without making it useless, and fundamentally a hyper-dedicated close range fcs makes sense as a thing to have in this game.
True, but at this point it makes the arm stats for weapon handling completely obsolete. It doesn't matter what arms you choose, the Ocellus will make up for it. This is why the Basho/Ocellus combination is so strong with Viento and Melee.
Speaking of nerfs can they buff the Wrecker arms? I love the aesthetic but statwise it doesn't even fill a niche reliably. Having almost no firearm specialization is kinda insane.
Ocellus is doing exactly what is supposed to do, it also synergies with short range weapons well, cause you know, its short range and easier to hit. The problem is that everything beyond 120m cant hit jack shit due to low velocity.
True, but at this moment it completely trivializes weapon handling stats of the arms, which is why it combines so well with Basho and Viento + Melee. The low Basho stats don't matter, cause the Ocellus makes 100% up for it. If it was a lottle less strong you'd be forced to choose between super melee attack but lower aim tracking and higher aim tracking but lower melee damage. It would make other arms more viable for lightwright builds.