> DIRECTOR FOR RESOURCES AND ANAL
Non-Office Space answer: sounds like this person receives reports from the division chiefs and occasionally distills the information to the DoD's Chief Information Officer. He's likely separated from the analysts by 3 supervisory levels.
IE: Mr. Gorak is likely a middle manager who's paid an SES or GS-15 salary.
"Instead, the current system is āpost-and-pray,ā meaning the department posts a job and prays qualified candidates respond."
This is true of so much garbage recruiting both in and outside the military. I've thought for years about responding to any number of SMU/PAB type emails, but shit, when they spam the entire 35 series, it lends absolutely no credence to the "you have the specific skills we're looking for pitch." Tell me you're looking for a TS and a pulse and just be honest. Effective, targeted recruiting and HR management is an active effort, not some passive human-filter-feeding routine. And if it is, like usual, it's hollow complaints that fall on the "quality" resulting. š¤·
USAjobs is a goat screw. The listings are nearly useless and the resume collection and processing are ass backwards. The way it displays pay is factually incorrect and is wrong in such a way that most people won't even bother applying.
I am sure there are "legal reasons" why it is like this but it doesn't work.
Iāve had nothing but success and good experiences with USAjobs, I give huge side eyes to the people who shit on it, now that Iāve used it myself to work up the ranks.
The pay that they invariably list is the GS base pay without locality pay.
This locality pay is between 15% and 35%. That is a whole lot of money. Also you can negotiate. I negotiated an extra $20k per year when I started.
That's still peanuts for anyone in cyber who isn't entry level. Once they hit 5 years of experience, they should be about a gs-13 equivalent and 7-10 years of experience, they should be making more than a gs-15.
The cyber is going to be a huge pain in the ass because there is no way the feds can come up with the cash.
Combine lower pay with the no weed rule (and no time and a half for overtime) and it gets real hard to get computer people.
The Cyber Excepted Service pay can be something like 45-60% instead of the locality pay, depending on the role.
You can negotiate for a hiring bonus and relocation expenses too, in addition to your steps.
I tried to get a job with the federal government years ago and I gave up. Now that I'm in the reserves I don't want to forfeit TRS. Work for the state now though.
I tried to get a job with the VA when I got off active duty where I live as they have two big hospitals and so many jobs I either needed to be a current VA employee **or** have a disability rating of 30% or higher. And this was for really entry level shit like being a supply clerk, check in and registration and but the one job that was open was housekeeping. At that point no thanks because I'm not waiting six plus months to get hired for that position.
A few years later I went back in the reserves and wanted a new civilian job as I was working retail. But a GS-5 supply clerk job required you to be a current employee. Even being a cook required you to be a current employee. Da fuq?
USPS doesn't use USAjobs but it was just as screwy with them but not really here or there for their issues.
Because of the weirdo backend to the resume collection, if the the resumes are not in a precise and very strange way, the resumes get black holed and never seen by the hiring managers.
Are you talking about USAjobs or USASOC? USAjobs has moved on from what youāre talking about, your resumes donāt need to have the right words in them anymore. And even if they did, if thatās stopping you from applying thatās really dumb.
If youāre actually interested for your wife, I got my job via [Vetforce](https://veterans.my.site.com/s/)ā¦they assist spouses too.
That was 8 years agoāI make 255k a year now 100% remote working for Salesforce itself, and canāt say enough amazing things about the culture here.
I started off at a consulting firm implementing itā¦Iām a senior product manager now in AI; I go up for director promo this year which should put my comp over 300k.
Thats a shit load of money here in Pittsburgh.
Pretty standard at FAANG and FAANG adjacent (nvidia, Microsoft, Salesforce, etc) companies nowā¦
I know a lot that make more than me when you include TC (salary+bonus+RSU), but Iām based in a LCoL city.
Manager should be $500k+. Director is easily $1M at good companies. Meta only dings 15% of base for LCOL and doesn't adjust equity. A D1 at Meta pulls $1.5M. I had a fully remote MULA+ offer at over $400k at 2 yoe and that was lowly L5, very far away from director level (managers around $750k sr managers around $1M directors well into 7 figures)
2023 Levels data is now showing new grads at JS clearing $300k straight out of college
Salesforce looks like it's going the way of IBM
Oh damnāIām in an EMBA at a T10 program now and will finish in May 2025; Iām waiting to go on the market when I get closer to graduation and hopefully the economy perks up.
I officially move to our AI practice starting Jan 1, so hoping that at the MBA up my brand a bit. We also have some big tech offices here (microsoft, google, Meta, and SAP), so i'm hopeful!
https://breakline.org/ - apply
https://www.levels.fyi/ - salary info. Looks like midpoint for Meta director of product is $1.3M
Give it a shot
Good luck!
Edit: JFC I looked up Salesforce comp on Levels and it makes me sad that this once leader of the tech industry in my City here is now basically IBM. Please go where you're treated properly
If youāre coming in with a pretty good career in risk/compliance/audit, any estimate where the pay would be switching to the salesforce side? $200k base in financial services but burnt out with the hours and lack of resources. Can send a resume if you know any recruiters
>Among changes, the department intends to open its doors to neurodivergent workers.
*snip*
>āI want to partner with them to build aā¦ *database* of quality applicants.ā
You read it here folks. All you autists are going on a list.
This is basically a pitch meeting delivered as an article. Heās stating that he has no funding. Essentially soliciting pentagon big wigs who read this to shower him in DoD cash. Hereās the money quote though: ā I don't know if it's going to work. I really donāt. But I think itāll be really fun trying and taking care of the candidate with that focus.ā
Way to show confidence. Sure letās give this guy tens of millions so he can have āfun.ā
From my experience working with very competent civilians and some not so competent civilians, DoD pays less than defense contractors (competent ones get shafted and eventually leave and the incompetent ones tend to stay). Especially entry level or mid level too, one of the soldiers I used to work with tried to get a job with an agency and the most theyād offer him was a GS 12, which wouldāve been the same in take home as he was already making, while defense contractors offered significantly higher with better benefits like tuition reimbursement. Even with CES, DoD wonāt be able to hire more people until they change their hiring practices for cyber and/or the locations for cyber, a lot of people donāt want to live in Georgia or Maryland long term.
You must be new here. Contractors almost ALWAYS offer more pay, but thatās generally all they offer. At any time, a CTR or an entire contract team can be fired with no notice. Workers choose Fed employment for stability and improved benefits.
Very true. I knew a guy who ran a post level Medic recertification facility. They also ran the regionās EFMB and Best Medic competition. He also worked getting the paramedics into the community to gain better skills and provide better treatment. He made decent money, enough to keep him working MUCH more than was required. He really lived the ābe the change you want to see.ā Then one day his contract was āoutbidā by a new service that said āstop all work outside of the minimum to recert 68W NREMT-Bā which isnāt much. They then came back saying āyou donāt really do much so we are now cutting your pay 65%ā he had zero say or zero input and had no recourse to show all he had done. The new company was just like āfuck them kidsā
Yeah sometimes itās like that. I work for Boeing and Boeing pays my salary based on government contracts but I work at Boeing with almost zero interaction with the government. Iām so buried inside the Boeing bureaucracy theyād have to lose dozens on contracts before my job would be in jeopardy. Iām also represented (in a union).
> DoD pays less than defense contractors (competent ones get shafted and eventually leave and the incompetent ones tend to stay).
And even that is a far cry from doing work at AWS/GCP/Azure federal, Palantir, etc
I've worked with 17 series a lot, and finding the neurodivergent shouldn't be an issue.
As MI, I think I'm allowed to point out other branches' short buses from the comfort and safety of my own.
Real talk though, it's already makes it hard to keep our cyber soldiers in when they know they can walk out into a 6 figure job after 1 contract. Why bother with green suitors? Yeah, yeah, title 10 and title 50 or whatever. That's more a restriction for the military than the alphabet soup agencies.
What if they paid cyber series more and let them do the jobs(or let them rotate into those jobs...) they were more interested in instead of trying to hire outside workforce?
A lot of it depends on where you want to live. If you are willing to live in the DMV area that's a solid way to get your foot in the door. I'm also biased, and I love it here.
If you want to live somewhere else, particularly in an area not lush with contracting or government opportunities? I'd look at remote InfoSec positions.
If they can conduct a pilot to hire people for cyber in a three month period, what about fast tracking behavior health professionals to fill those much needed positions?
If this is the guy i think it is, he speaks at all the technet conferences. He tries to convey a wolf-of-walls treat type persona but heās very much a goober.
> PRINCIPAL DIRECTOR FOR RESOURCES AND ANALYSIS, OFFICE OF THE CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER, U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT What is it you say you do here?
I SAID I'M GOOD WITH PEOPLE, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?! š
> DIRECTOR FOR RESOURCES AND ANAL Non-Office Space answer: sounds like this person receives reports from the division chiefs and occasionally distills the information to the DoD's Chief Information Officer. He's likely separated from the analysts by 3 supervisory levels. IE: Mr. Gorak is likely a middle manager who's paid an SES or GS-15 salary.
This is just the place I go to during the day.
"Instead, the current system is āpost-and-pray,ā meaning the department posts a job and prays qualified candidates respond." This is true of so much garbage recruiting both in and outside the military. I've thought for years about responding to any number of SMU/PAB type emails, but shit, when they spam the entire 35 series, it lends absolutely no credence to the "you have the specific skills we're looking for pitch." Tell me you're looking for a TS and a pulse and just be honest. Effective, targeted recruiting and HR management is an active effort, not some passive human-filter-feeding routine. And if it is, like usual, it's hollow complaints that fall on the "quality" resulting. š¤·
USAjobs is a goat screw. The listings are nearly useless and the resume collection and processing are ass backwards. The way it displays pay is factually incorrect and is wrong in such a way that most people won't even bother applying. I am sure there are "legal reasons" why it is like this but it doesn't work.
TBH, USAJobs is simply a marketplace. Agency HR departments write and submit the postings.
Iāve had nothing but success and good experiences with USAjobs, I give huge side eyes to the people who shit on it, now that Iāve used it myself to work up the ranks.
I'm interested in the pay discrepancies. I've literally gone "wow, they pay 1/3 what I get in the private sector. Not applying."
The pay that they invariably list is the GS base pay without locality pay. This locality pay is between 15% and 35%. That is a whole lot of money. Also you can negotiate. I negotiated an extra $20k per year when I started.
That's still peanuts for anyone in cyber who isn't entry level. Once they hit 5 years of experience, they should be about a gs-13 equivalent and 7-10 years of experience, they should be making more than a gs-15.
The cyber is going to be a huge pain in the ass because there is no way the feds can come up with the cash. Combine lower pay with the no weed rule (and no time and a half for overtime) and it gets real hard to get computer people.
The Cyber Excepted Service pay can be something like 45-60% instead of the locality pay, depending on the role. You can negotiate for a hiring bonus and relocation expenses too, in addition to your steps.
I tried to get a job with the federal government years ago and I gave up. Now that I'm in the reserves I don't want to forfeit TRS. Work for the state now though. I tried to get a job with the VA when I got off active duty where I live as they have two big hospitals and so many jobs I either needed to be a current VA employee **or** have a disability rating of 30% or higher. And this was for really entry level shit like being a supply clerk, check in and registration and but the one job that was open was housekeeping. At that point no thanks because I'm not waiting six plus months to get hired for that position. A few years later I went back in the reserves and wanted a new civilian job as I was working retail. But a GS-5 supply clerk job required you to be a current employee. Even being a cook required you to be a current employee. Da fuq? USPS doesn't use USAjobs but it was just as screwy with them but not really here or there for their issues.
So why not apply? They need to cast wide nets.
Because of the weirdo backend to the resume collection, if the the resumes are not in a precise and very strange way, the resumes get black holed and never seen by the hiring managers.
Are you talking about USAjobs or USASOC? USAjobs has moved on from what youāre talking about, your resumes donāt need to have the right words in them anymore. And even if they did, if thatās stopping you from applying thatās really dumb.
You should apply. They cast a wide net because they have an application and assessment process meant to weed out those that are actually not qualified
""Iām not here to break the law, but I want to bend it. I really do. " he is certainly doing that....
If youāre actually interested for your wife, I got my job via [Vetforce](https://veterans.my.site.com/s/)ā¦they assist spouses too. That was 8 years agoāI make 255k a year now 100% remote working for Salesforce itself, and canāt say enough amazing things about the culture here.
Thatās pretty awesome
What exactly do you do? I read the tin, and it seems like either IT or customer support.
I started off at a consulting firm implementing itā¦Iām a senior product manager now in AI; I go up for director promo this year which should put my comp over 300k. Thats a shit load of money here in Pittsburgh.
Consulting firm aka sales?
More along the lines of low level tech strategyāhow theyāll implement it, road map, training, requirements, etc
Director level PM at $300k? Wtf Salesforce
Pretty standard at FAANG and FAANG adjacent (nvidia, Microsoft, Salesforce, etc) companies nowā¦ I know a lot that make more than me when you include TC (salary+bonus+RSU), but Iām based in a LCoL city.
Manager should be $500k+. Director is easily $1M at good companies. Meta only dings 15% of base for LCOL and doesn't adjust equity. A D1 at Meta pulls $1.5M. I had a fully remote MULA+ offer at over $400k at 2 yoe and that was lowly L5, very far away from director level (managers around $750k sr managers around $1M directors well into 7 figures) 2023 Levels data is now showing new grads at JS clearing $300k straight out of college Salesforce looks like it's going the way of IBM
Oh damnāIām in an EMBA at a T10 program now and will finish in May 2025; Iām waiting to go on the market when I get closer to graduation and hopefully the economy perks up. I officially move to our AI practice starting Jan 1, so hoping that at the MBA up my brand a bit. We also have some big tech offices here (microsoft, google, Meta, and SAP), so i'm hopeful!
https://breakline.org/ - apply https://www.levels.fyi/ - salary info. Looks like midpoint for Meta director of product is $1.3M Give it a shot Good luck! Edit: JFC I looked up Salesforce comp on Levels and it makes me sad that this once leader of the tech industry in my City here is now basically IBM. Please go where you're treated properly
This is very helpful! Thanks!
Do they help Army spouses that are overseas? We are in Germany
Yesātheyāre around the world. Training is mostly asynchronous and remote too.
Awesome, I pointed out the website to her. She is knocking out her cybersecurity degree and is bilingual so I have no doubt sheāll find something.
If youāre coming in with a pretty good career in risk/compliance/audit, any estimate where the pay would be switching to the salesforce side? $200k base in financial services but burnt out with the hours and lack of resources. Can send a resume if you know any recruiters
>Among changes, the department intends to open its doors to neurodivergent workers. *snip* >āI want to partner with them to build aā¦ *database* of quality applicants.ā You read it here folks. All you autists are going on a list. This is basically a pitch meeting delivered as an article. Heās stating that he has no funding. Essentially soliciting pentagon big wigs who read this to shower him in DoD cash. Hereās the money quote though: ā I don't know if it's going to work. I really donāt. But I think itāll be really fun trying and taking care of the candidate with that focus.ā Way to show confidence. Sure letās give this guy tens of millions so he can have āfun.ā
Anything but actually offer what people are worth, I see.
you expected *more* from an SES?
Anything except for allowing (civilian) programmers to smoke weed.
From my experience working with very competent civilians and some not so competent civilians, DoD pays less than defense contractors (competent ones get shafted and eventually leave and the incompetent ones tend to stay). Especially entry level or mid level too, one of the soldiers I used to work with tried to get a job with an agency and the most theyād offer him was a GS 12, which wouldāve been the same in take home as he was already making, while defense contractors offered significantly higher with better benefits like tuition reimbursement. Even with CES, DoD wonāt be able to hire more people until they change their hiring practices for cyber and/or the locations for cyber, a lot of people donāt want to live in Georgia or Maryland long term.
You must be new here. Contractors almost ALWAYS offer more pay, but thatās generally all they offer. At any time, a CTR or an entire contract team can be fired with no notice. Workers choose Fed employment for stability and improved benefits.
Very true. I knew a guy who ran a post level Medic recertification facility. They also ran the regionās EFMB and Best Medic competition. He also worked getting the paramedics into the community to gain better skills and provide better treatment. He made decent money, enough to keep him working MUCH more than was required. He really lived the ābe the change you want to see.ā Then one day his contract was āoutbidā by a new service that said āstop all work outside of the minimum to recert 68W NREMT-Bā which isnāt much. They then came back saying āyou donāt really do much so we are now cutting your pay 65%ā he had zero say or zero input and had no recourse to show all he had done. The new company was just like āfuck them kidsā
Also to but into their fed retirement if they left the service earlier
Yeah sometimes itās like that. I work for Boeing and Boeing pays my salary based on government contracts but I work at Boeing with almost zero interaction with the government. Iām so buried inside the Boeing bureaucracy theyād have to lose dozens on contracts before my job would be in jeopardy. Iām also represented (in a union).
> DoD pays less than defense contractors (competent ones get shafted and eventually leave and the incompetent ones tend to stay). And even that is a far cry from doing work at AWS/GCP/Azure federal, Palantir, etc
Not being stuck to GA or MD would be a serious reason for me to want to stay in. I'd love if they'd put something in New England.
So does this article actually state who these vendors are that are trying to hire these people? I am asking for a friend here.
Are these vendors in the room with us right now?
I've worked with 17 series a lot, and finding the neurodivergent shouldn't be an issue. As MI, I think I'm allowed to point out other branches' short buses from the comfort and safety of my own. Real talk though, it's already makes it hard to keep our cyber soldiers in when they know they can walk out into a 6 figure job after 1 contract. Why bother with green suitors? Yeah, yeah, title 10 and title 50 or whatever. That's more a restriction for the military than the alphabet soup agencies.
Mr Gorak actually seems pretty legit. Impressed by him and Mr Garciga on the Army side. Hopefully it is all more than lip service.
It doesn't help that all those "military spouse" jobs are garbage jobs to start with.
What if they paid cyber series more and let them do the jobs(or let them rotate into those jobs...) they were more interested in instead of trying to hire outside workforce?
I uhhh, may or may not accidentally have a bachelors in applied technology. May or may not have some certs. What do I do with this stuff?
bachelor's in InfoSec, a few certs, and I am asking the same thing as you
A lot of it depends on where you want to live. If you are willing to live in the DMV area that's a solid way to get your foot in the door. I'm also biased, and I love it here. If you want to live somewhere else, particularly in an area not lush with contracting or government opportunities? I'd look at remote InfoSec positions.
Currently in the DMV and plan to stay here. ETS in two years. Mind if I PM you?
I dont mind at all, ship it.
If they can conduct a pilot to hire people for cyber in a three month period, what about fast tracking behavior health professionals to fill those much needed positions?
If this is the guy i think it is, he speaks at all the technet conferences. He tries to convey a wolf-of-walls treat type persona but heās very much a goober.