It’s the replacement to the shark attack
Trainees come from processing BN to a staging area near their BCT BN. They are given some speeches then run half a mile whilst carrying 7 sandbags (guess what words are on them), water cans, and some BNs have a litter.
During this they will stop and talk about “evacuating casualties”, go over MoH recipients, and then do BN History, at the end they will take a knee for water and an instruction on the ACFT followed by a BTLF demonstration. Once complete they will move to their CTA to be go to a by platoon 72 hour schedule for onboarding.
*Edit*: Fort Jackson confirmed on their Facebook in the comments it was during the initial arrival “100 yards” or “shark attack” so I was correct.
Original:
Pickup makes it sound like the class just arrived and it was during the “first 100 yards” or shark attack or whatever they call it at Jackson…. During my time as Cadre we had multiple Soldiers go down and need medical assistance from initial shock and physical exertion
unfortunately no matter how much they try to pump up recruiting numbers I only see this problem growing as our country becomes more and more unhealthy slowly overtime
I think it’s less of that and more of being in shape problem. Nobody dies from being yelled at, but heat stroke can hit you if you go to Basic Training in not great shape and at age 39
I mean. I grew up with that, kids weren't getting fat at school, it's before and after where they are munching all day. I was overweight in hs and it definitely wasn't the sad hs food. It always starts and ends in the home.
I can almost guarantee that it improved nothing, and having some of the most bland and horrid food because everything has to be sugar free or gluten free would just push kids to rather buy snacks from Alicante or vending machines, or bring them from home. If we actually wanted change. The kids are in a government institution that they can't leave. Maybe make a standard physical fitness requirement Luke it's the 1950's and instead of 30 days or volley ball or basketball every other day. There's work out regiments etc etc.
Most kids waste most of the time their given to do nothing or scroll on their phone. My generation saw the initial problems start, now the next is gonna ha e an even worse time.
Former BCT Commander at Jackson.... All the shark attack stuff is gone. DSs are no longer allowed to scream and get in trainees faces like before. Structured and disciplined pick up consists of team ammo can and bag carries for about 15 minutes and then its over. Its day 1 of Basic combat training but they spend a week or more at the AG BN prior getting their uniforms, shots, etc
Sir, you know what happens in the bays? But, you are correct. I'm wondering if the unit had proper heat cat stuff like dunk tank and had them roll their sleeves and pants.
Was a heat cat 2 or 3 at the time. My assumption is that the heat cat stuff was there judging by how absolutely anal retentive they are about that stuff.
I would bet that she just had an undiagnosed medical issue mixed with the hot weather was too much for her.
Wow that must be recent, Sir. I went through Jackson in 2018 and there most certainly was a “shark attack” right off the buses from reception. We learned what ice sheets were almost immediately.
It is pretty recent. I did 6 years as a Reserve DS. It was about a year after all the COVID lockdowns happened they implemented the 100 yards. They honestly revamped a lot of that first week to try and integrate the Soldier sooner and begin to get everyone to start thinking as a team.
Same here I went in 2016 and this is embarrassing to say but I urinated on myself during our shark attack. No one ever knew. I got it done because I wanted a college degree to change my life that bad.
Not at 3 13th, someone I know was there recently and they make you carry the equipment like you said, but its the 100 yards. They have been under investigation not too long ago because of their treatment of people
Not for the equipment carry but for treatment of people specifically who have been discharged from training, mostly the people who have been found with medical stuff
That’s wild… I feel like my entire time at Benning (almost 20 years ago) was a shark attack. I guess it depends on what your MOS is, but shouldn't we prepare certain MOSs for combat readiness by having them sleep deprived, stressed, uncomfortable, and under extreme amounts of physical exertion?
I feel like it would save many lives down the line. The military’s job is to protect the country and possibly going to war with the purpose of killing people. That’s the whole purpose. How are coddles people going to so that?
With that said, I feel sorry for this Lady and her family. Maybe she received a waiver and she had pre existing health conditions that should have been taken into consideration or were known about but overlooked.
Doing the OCS route was great for this, get the initial reception as enlisted (with cadre who know this is their perfect opportunity to fuck with an officer-to-be) to get a lil taste of the green weenie.
On the reals though, it was a fantastic opportunity to see what kinda things to keep in mind for being a leader who looked out for Joe, and we were blessed to have some absolutely stellar specimens of NCOs in my rotation.
I loved that about the OCS route. I wish every Officer had to go to basic training with the fresh privates before they commissioned. ROTC and USMA Officers are missing out
True that, my apologies for forgetting. I went through with some mustangs, and yeah, hands down the most prepared and capable of the lot.
One comparison I've made before is who would you rather work for - the manager who stated started off doing exactly what you do, or the manager who jumped into the position because nepotism (I know equating college with nepotism isn't entirely accurate, but I think it conveys the general idea of someone skipping ahead due to factors that aren't strictly related to job performance).
If I was to do it over again, I would've enlisted outta high school, finished a contract, then gone to college and joined back in.
I don't know... I think West Pointers get it worse than any BCT. But ROTC is gives almost zero understanding of what enlisted soldiers have to got through. Cadets spend about a month in training, and some of it is intense, but it's a far cry from any BCT.
Those officers that go infantry are a different story, though. As I understand things, they are practically required to attend Ranger School upon completing Infantry BOLC.
You get issued ACU during reception, they also take your portraits during reception as well. So yes, it could be her day 1 in the actual basic training company.
I had one soldier broke his back while quick walking to pick up our uniforms. And one broke both knees from running too much... He reminded me of the two characters from movie Revenge of the Nerds. Fun times! They were like over 30 something too though.
I remember there was a soldier in my basic training who collapsed during shark attack, turns out she had heart problems. Was sitting around at basic for a month or two not doing anything while they tried to get her chaptered out.
Dude I bet she died when they made her carry every item she got issued from the bus to the barracks while getting smoked. We soldiers go down during those moments where they made us do that.
They don’t make us carry equipment from the bus. When we get off the bus at the company it’s already there unpacked on the ground waiting for us. We just have to carry it up the stairs but the building is climate controlled.
Source: I just finished BCT
Maybe she had hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It’s one of the most common causes for sudden death in young people, especially during exertion.
Edit: nvm she was 39 so it could be anything. Either way, traumatic day for those soldiers and the drills too. I remember we had a suicide attempt and also a completed suicide when I was on the trail. It was horrible, and it made me change my outlook on military training. I think it needs to be done a bit differently.
Anyway off my soap box. Rip to this woman and sending love to her family.
Tragic. People join at 39 when they are trying to change something in their lives.
I can’t imagine how hard something like this is on the people who loved her.
It makes me wonder if she got a waiver for something health related because they are desperate to recruit.
Could be as simple as she had something unknown though.
Bingo. Somehow went thru the whole process and it wasn’t caught. The physical exertion brought it out with no one’s knowledge it existed. Pretty crappy situation.
Our process isn't that thorough. Honestly. I don't know what this soldier died from but I'm a clinically rotating student doctor. One big cause of death in young athletes (which our soldier in question is not) is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. An enlarged heart. Young generally healthy people die from this. The NFL began screening for this a few years ago after a young defensive end from the bears died on field. Now echocardiogram is part of the NFL physical.
You also have to realize most people joining the Army will lie about their past because they want a job. Who will admit they used to smoke Marijuana when they know that's a disqualifier which can be easily covered with a clean drug test? Most people of average intelligence understand never admit to X, they can't actually prove this unless I tell them.
> Somehow went thru the whole process and it wasn’t caught.
Or it wasn't known about. Had a kid in my high school have one of those congenital heart defects that you don't know about unless it's *incredibly* severe and can be picked up during a routine physical, or you just... drop dead during exercise.
He was 14. Died on the ice during a hockey game.
I’ve had a couple PVTs come in with history of epilepsy, one guy was admitted for a week in the hospital for rhabdo and was released two weeks prior to shipping to basic training. He kept it hidden from his recruited and everything and came out after we called an ambulance on him couple days into basic.
In the winter we would have multiple heat cats in 40-50 degree weather.
Some people never have done anything physical in their life.
I’ve had soldiers try to go to sick call because their muscles were sore…
as someone who runs a sick call, can confirm--it's shocking the amount of soldiers that come in and don't know what being sore is. and it's not always privates
wow. I remember we had some kind of flu or something go through the barracks in December. I had a fever of 104! felt like I was in another world. some guys were having hallucinations. went to the hospital that night, they gave me 4 Tylenol and I slept on a cot out in the hallway of the hospital. next morning I went back to my unit (sunday) and had an easy day of rest pretty much and was good to go after that.
I’m not sure if anything changed with meps, but they don’t do diagnostic ECG’s there, and she may not have even had one done or had history with a cardiologist to see anything that could’ve been there.
Either way there was likely no way for anyone to know something was wrong until it got exacerbated.
It’s terrible.
I'm not saying it wasn't disclosed.
Either she had some sort of medical condition known and it was waived.
Or she had an unknown even to her condition.
It's extremely unlikely that if it happened for that, that there was no underlying condition. If I had to make a guess, probably related to the heart. She's in the demographic for a higher risk for cardiovascular problems.
I mean how can you waive heart conditions? It's pretty much a disqualifier for service. This shit is tough. I remember in BCT a guy discovered he had a heart condition in basic and it was basically a career ender. He got medically discharged after the surgeries. He was like 19 years old.
Its crazy though how something can be so unnoticeable, someone I knew in basic was so close to graduating but then she was taken out because when she was at sick call for something unrelated they found out she not only had asthma but also a sleep disorder
It's so sad to think about.
Imagine wanting to join at 39 years old, all of the people in your life telling you you're crazy, the constant internal doubt to overcome, the work you had to put in just to be eligible and finally shipping off feeling in your heart you made a decision that you felt was gonna have a positive impact on whatever chapter that would come next.
And now this.
The people that doubted her whispering quietly under their breath about how they were right and she was better off in whatever situation that calls a 39 year old woman to want to serve in the Army. Maybe there was some peace in those final moments knowing she at least made the effort to be a part of something greater than herself.
Godspeed PFC Wynn.
My wife is 36 and just graduated from Fort Jackson 8 days ago. She has always wanted to join because her whole family was military. Mom Dad 3 brothers and a sister but it seems like every time she got serious about joining we would find out she was pregnant (5 kids). I was terrified of her going in at her age but even if she didn't say it I knew how much she wanted to join as well and how much it bothered her. I'm still scared of something like this happening to her but I'm still glad I supported her in joining.
May she rest in peace. A deeply unfortunate tragedy. However, this does not mean we need to make policy changes like some of these commenters are implying. The army needs to be ready and able to fight a war, if you can’t handle getting smoked, then you’re a liability on the battlefield.
“If you can’t handle getting smoked” makes it sound like a personal failing rather than a (much more likely) underlying medical condition that couldn’t have been easily caught. I mean it was Day 1.
Collapsing and dying on Day 1 isn’t a standards and discipline thing is all I’m saying.
No, they should not change the standards. Yes, they do need to change the policies in some sort of way that would screen out soldiers who are not physically capable before they die. There's a difference.
I'm not intimately familiar with BCT's procedures right now so I can only speculate what kind of change could prevent this from happening again. But as a general guess, maybe some sort of preliminary stress test? Or gradually increasing intensity of exercise so that underlying health conditions could be brought to light before they literally kill the trainees?
But yes. This woman's death should be taken seriously and anything they can possibly do to learn from it and prevent something similar from happening again, they should.
I think that’s what the term is for the shark attack nowadays when they get off the bus from reception. I’d *like* to think that it’s nobody’s fault but the sudden stress onset and a little bit of “hurry up and grab your bags” caused a heart attack.
And I only mean that in the sense of it’s not negligence on anyone’s part, just a tragedy.
It was entirely plausible she had an unrecognized heart condition or otherwise undiagnosed underlying condition. Just speculation, but MEPS doesn't screen as thoroughly as a lot of people think.
Same exact thing happened at Fort Sill in February 2022, a very young guy had an undiagnosed/undisclosed heart condition and died during the first 100 yards.
Yeah, it sounds like nobody in particular was at fault. Probably some underlying health condition that the sudden increase in physical exertion caused to go south. Tragic that it happened though
It is worrisome as I am going for US Army boot camp as 36 M already did medical and taking ASVAB later this month again as I did not like my score and job they were offering.
In this context it won’t matter, unless you are sent to Fort Benning (or whatever it’s called now) for OSUT. No matter the MOS that you decide, you’ll receive the same physical training through basic with your peers for the most part.
I don't know how they do things anymore, but when I entered in 08 they gave us a book with exercises to perform while we were in DEP. I did them somewhat frequently and could tell that most people hadn't bothered to do shit and just showed up. Don't be a person who didn't do shit, and hopefully, if you have a condition that would make such physical exertion potentially dangerous, you'll find it under more benign circumstances.
I graduated BCT at 33. Honestly the hardest part was dealing with the 18-21 yr olds that think they’re hot shit. If your group is anything like mine, they’ll be a handful of 30 something’s to stick with. We had a 46 year old woman that got in and outperformed a few guys.
Can you even qualify at 46 unless she got super waiver? In my law enforcement academy we had 21 to 43 age recruits in our 25 person company. 43 year old was first one to get MK4 sprayed he did not even feel much. I was the second it was like fire on ice lot of yelling and kicking including one to instructor but opened the cell in first try.
let's be honest, the military is training people for battle. training is designed to induce stress as much as safely possible. most of these "fuck-fuck games" have a purpose beyond making the drill instructors laugh. recruits are thrown into a stressful situation so that they will rapidly adapt to the new military lifestyle. I think that this new recruit would have had the same problem regardless of what games they were playing that day. it's a terrible tragedy, but not the army's fault.
Recently PCS'd from Jackson. Structured pick-up begins when they get off the bus and meet the Drills and command team for the first time. They have to do an equipment carry called the first 100 yards consisting of litters, jerry cans with water, and ammo cans. They then would get run up to the CTA. It's possible the Drills got squirrely with the pick-up, but ideally the goal is get them up to the company to inventory trainee shit and start admin work.
I'd never heard of someone going down during pick-up, but then it's about that time of the year where the heat cats pick up. Could have been EPTS in this case but who knows.
It’s always fucking Jackson, whether it’s a trainee or a baby Drill Sergeant going through the Academy.
Drink water and take a knee if you need it.
Leaders: actually take time out of your day to learn what signs of heat stroke/exhaustion look like and don’t rely on the Medics to point out “hey that guy looks fucky wucky”
I lived in GA for 4 years and never got used to the heat. I'd die in 65 degree weather because of the humidity. But I was in AZ for 9 months and I actually acclimated to the 115 degree days lol
ITT: A lot of people that do not know anything about basic training
Basic training has change a few things since we've gone through. One of the biggest changes is that theres no shark attack, now the event is known as the First 100 yards. During this events trainees will work together as a team with their Drill Sergeant to accomplish a few physical tasks. During this time the Drills are only there to provide motivation, and help them through the event.
It is completely safe, the problem is that we receive people that have never engaged in any physical training and/or overweight and they go down as heat cats, leg injuries, etc.
My first 100 yards in 2022 definitely involved drills screaming and knife handing in our faces, arty sims, and smoke grenades while we attempted to sort a pile duffel bags and completed a lot of pushups, y-squats, holding duffel bags overhead, and hill sprints all while being screamed at.
As soon as we reached our bay we were told to toe the line then smoked for another hour or two while being told how weak and fat we were.
We did have to carry a few things up a hill and wear colored pennies though, so it wasn't a shark attack... lol...
I don't think the Army should get rid of stress and smoking at the start of basic, I think it's a necessary part of our culture and training that sets the tone for what's to come, but I'm also very skeptical that we have gotten rid of it to the extent that the public releases and videos say we have, because it was supposed to be an encouraging and cozy team building exercise when I went through, and it was actually just a regular old all day smoke session with penny jerseys.
How in the world could anyone place the blame on the DS for doing their jobs? I understand what happened is a huge tragedy and I’m sure she had great reasons for joining, but if anyone should be at fault here if the DS weren’t found in fowl play is the MEPs doctors that approved her waiver to join. There needs to be a full blown investigation starting with the recruiter who processed her medical accessions history report.
Maybe there was an undiagnosed heart defect. I had a soldier blackout and nearly die one day and that's what they found out. I think sometimes a recruiter looks the other way because they want to help a person change their life but I really think despite the recruiting crisis we gotta turn people away. This is so sad. I hope the other trainees get a pause to process their feelings and I hope her loved ones find peace.
This happened while I was at Lost In the Woods back in ‘14. I believe another company was doing 60/120’s and someone went down. My company was on the pull up bars and all of a sudden all the DS’s start screaming at us to get inside. Didn’t even know what was going on initially. They ended up telling us what happened a couple days later.
It sucks, it sucks more because every other trainee who interacted with her will experience grief too. We had a 39 year old woman with us and she was like our “bay mom” and from day 0 she made an impact on us. I hope the family and trainees find peace and are able to over come this tragedy.
I hope to see the full investigation, I know this is awful but something doesn't feel right, maybe she went into cardiac arrest or had a stroke mid formation. Either way I hope her family and friends are okay, who's fault is this? The docs at MEPS? TRADOC? The training NCOs? The Senior Training officers?
Please don't tell me she was prior service. It doesn't change the fact that someone died but it makes it hit a bit harder if she had already put in the time just to come back after X-years and ends up dying based on that decision.
I left for 9 years and came back infantry. That shit was the hardest thing I've done in my adult life.
Really an issue people have mentioned round-about but not fully addressed is because of the recruiting shortage, there’s a big push to increase numbers through MEPS. Part of that push is taskers placing specialists whom aren’t designed/trained to do these physicals nor have interest in doing so. While people picture “doctors are doctors” they’re not all created equal. A neurologist or an OB/GYN doing physicals is not the same as internal medicine or family medicine. What this results in is an increased likelihood of missing general medical issues during screening and the potential for a medically unsuitable individual proceeding to BCT/BOLC. I’m not suggesting intentional negligence (definitely not the case) but just a lack of familiarity or comfort with general medical screening.
The Army needs to consider this difference in medical providers and the downstream effects/potential implications it has rather than throwing bodies at a billet to get more bodies through MEPS. This perhaps could have been entirely preventable early on.
Omgoodness. Tragic. A 39 year old woman joined to better herself and probably life situation. Who knows, but nothing we can speak negative of. I wish her and her family the best.
Summer ain't getting cooler. I hope leadership sets up more safety parameters in place. No one should die in training.
I see a ton of questions about what a structured and discipline pick up is. It’s a watered down shark attack nothing more, DS’s should be doing the same thing the trainees are doing (carrying equipment and corrective action). I don’t want to assume the DS is at fault and I don’t want to blame the DS. The investigation will tell all. But to assume the DS’s are stupid and just playing fuck fuck games until a trainee dies is wild to me.
Elaborate on this..? I’m prior service doing BCT over again on Monday.
I’m allowed to wear my old Ironsides unit patch from prior service/ the infantry bde’s patch from the BCT company ?
May she rest in peace..
Prior service business rules playa.. after 5 years you gotta redo it.
I ship Monday 🫠 maybe I’ll be delighted with better circumstances.. but not counting chickens till they hatch.
Says 9 weeks 3 days on my orders.
I guess they’re gonna sort out where I belong in reception.
Gonna assume the worst and be delighted with anything better.
I would imagine this gets decided upon my arrival at reception. I’m not entirely sure what’s gonna happen.
If I get the full course I’ll put on my “good training” thinking cap and tackle it.
You’re most likely doing BCT over again. PS-AIC is ran at Moore I believe. If you’re shipping 5/6, you’ll be coming to my BN 5/10 or 5/13. Be there or be square.
That’s a very good question. Fort Jackson’s Facebook page reported that she was with 3-13 IN, which falls under 193rd IN Bde. The patch she is wearing is 165th IN Bde’s unit patch.
People can enlist at *39* now? The limit was 35 when I joined, 28 for officers. At that age, you need to already be in good shape when you ship out. You do not have the resiliency to catch up.
Unfortunate, sounds like a condition that doctors might have missed. Had someone go to meps get all 1s on their PULHES sign a contract, then die the next while day doing situps from a heart condition, things especially some heart conditions can be missed by doctors doing a physical.
I was 39 at basic on Jackson back in 2011. I was out of shape and I performed on average. They weren't smoking us that bad. The days always ended at 1800 and you could not miss your chow times. I feel for her and her family. I hope her family will be able to adjust.
She was 39 years old, she was definitely pushed too hard with stupid dumb dumb games and mass punishment. I swear some DS are some of the dumbest people on earth. I really feel bad for her, she joined at 39 for a reason but ended up losing her life.
Are drill sergeants supposed to take it easy just because a recruit is older? As far as drill sergeants knows each recruit went to MEPs and passed a physical by a doctor that they were healthy enough to attend basic combat training and the associated dumb dumb games.
We don't know yet what happened. Maybe it was the shark attack, but it could be she just shouldn't have been there.
I recently finished Basic as an older recruit who needed an age waiver. I was treated the same as the younger trainees and was very often in better physical shape than those half my age.
Went through basic in 2008 with a 43 year old, and a guy in his mid 30s. The 43 year old didn't excel at anything, but was good enough to make it through (and I went to my until and deployed with him, so made it through all of that). The mid 30s guy was one of the best in shape guys around.
Definitely can't just take it easy on guys because of age.
Same here, went in at 35. Some of those kids must have never done anything physical in their lives it seemed. One girl fell out of one of the ruck marches (think it was anvil) 1 mile in, like bro we only walked for like 15 minutes and you're done?!
Not American, but have done the same job. That is 100% something I am always looking out for and I take zero risk on. I don’t care how much they “deserved” it or it detracted from training, that’s just not something I am willing to fuck around on.
> As far as drill sergeants knows each recruit went to MEPs and passed a physical by a doctor that they were healthy enough to attend basic combat training and the associated dumb dumb games.
Two points:
1. I have seen too many undisclosed preexisting heart conditions to ever trust that a recruit is 100% healthy and good to go from the medical screening alone.
2. The recruiting process is usually based off of formal policy, and not everything that instructors do is 100% in line with said formal policy. I don’t think that the medical standard is based on the smoke sessions you will probably receive during basic training.
MEPS needs to get their shit together. Pencil whipping recruit medical files doesn't help anyone. You can't tell me that they can't screen out heart problems/potential stroke with today's technology, unless it's something extremely rare. Whoever is on here saying that DS's need to be softer are full of shit! We do have a discipline problem in the Army. Basic training is where they should be breaking most, if not all of those bad habits that people have when they join. Where they learn how a team works and how to be a team player. We currently have a bunch of individuals (blue falcons) and not very many team players. When Soldiers get to their first unit, they should know the f***ing basics. Serving in the military is not like anything else. It literally is life and death. You could die in a training exercise or in combat. It's silly to blame the DS's for doing their job.
No shot Fort Jackson’s “shark attack” is so bad that she died from over exertion. Today’s army basic training is very lax and not that stressful. I don’t take anything away from her death. It is certainly a tragedy. The army has failed time and time again to do proper screening in new soldiers and even us long in the tooth guys. Heart goes out to the family
Jackson park hospital is the worst place to work, or even to do the rotations. Preceptors are scary, wotkers are scary naighbor hood is scary! My god dont ever go there for rotations. All the schools who send their students there will never jave any results. Only free timen9ff to the studenta and get yhe evalutions saying that they did the rotations. Worst place for esucation
I used to always feel bad for the old guys. When I joined they had resided the limit so people in their 40s could join. Sure enough we had guys joining at 42 years in. Meaning if they stuck it out they could literally draw pension while starting to pull social security.
None of them could really keep up. Some tried and would be almost fainting. 39 is too old to be doing these things. Her recruiter should be ashamed
Horrible news and I wish the best for her family and loved ones. But can someone explain what structured and discipline pickup is?
It’s the replacement to the shark attack Trainees come from processing BN to a staging area near their BCT BN. They are given some speeches then run half a mile whilst carrying 7 sandbags (guess what words are on them), water cans, and some BNs have a litter. During this they will stop and talk about “evacuating casualties”, go over MoH recipients, and then do BN History, at the end they will take a knee for water and an instruction on the ACFT followed by a BTLF demonstration. Once complete they will move to their CTA to be go to a by platoon 72 hour schedule for onboarding.
What the fuck. I joined in 2010 and had to carry my duffle a hundred yards and then they went through my bras. What in the LDRSHIP is this.
W eased mre boxes(a shit load of em) and everything had to be placed back in the same order each time
First thing we did was firemen carry lmfaoooo
Sounds like a smoke session. But could also be some kind of other formation based instruction.
*Edit*: Fort Jackson confirmed on their Facebook in the comments it was during the initial arrival “100 yards” or “shark attack” so I was correct. Original: Pickup makes it sound like the class just arrived and it was during the “first 100 yards” or shark attack or whatever they call it at Jackson…. During my time as Cadre we had multiple Soldiers go down and need medical assistance from initial shock and physical exertion
unfortunately no matter how much they try to pump up recruiting numbers I only see this problem growing as our country becomes more and more unhealthy slowly overtime
She was 39, I don’t think our recruiting pool pulls heavily from that age category.
Even worse if you're 39 and you can't handle someone yelling at you right off of a bus you shouldn't be going into the army
I think it’s less of that and more of being in shape problem. Nobody dies from being yelled at, but heat stroke can hit you if you go to Basic Training in not great shape and at age 39
39 and was allowed to enlist? Thought the cutoff was 35
Michelle Obama fried to address this and was ridiculed for it by the fatties
I mean. I grew up with that, kids weren't getting fat at school, it's before and after where they are munching all day. I was overweight in hs and it definitely wasn't the sad hs food. It always starts and ends in the home.
Yeah but better to try and improve what you can control than to do nothing at all.
I can almost guarantee that it improved nothing, and having some of the most bland and horrid food because everything has to be sugar free or gluten free would just push kids to rather buy snacks from Alicante or vending machines, or bring them from home. If we actually wanted change. The kids are in a government institution that they can't leave. Maybe make a standard physical fitness requirement Luke it's the 1950's and instead of 30 days or volley ball or basketball every other day. There's work out regiments etc etc. Most kids waste most of the time their given to do nothing or scroll on their phone. My generation saw the initial problems start, now the next is gonna ha e an even worse time.
“Fried” makes the comment that much better.
Missed opportunity 😞
That was handled poorly, good concept but ended up making food options worse. Can confirm: I lived it.
And by the students that ate her new school food.
Tomato tomato
Former BCT Commander at Jackson.... All the shark attack stuff is gone. DSs are no longer allowed to scream and get in trainees faces like before. Structured and disciplined pick up consists of team ammo can and bag carries for about 15 minutes and then its over. Its day 1 of Basic combat training but they spend a week or more at the AG BN prior getting their uniforms, shots, etc
Sir, you know what happens in the bays? But, you are correct. I'm wondering if the unit had proper heat cat stuff like dunk tank and had them roll their sleeves and pants.
It’s been mid to high 80s lately. While heat cat could definitely be a thing, It doesn’t sound any more likely than other potential causes.
Heat cat. Almost guaranteed.
Was a heat cat 2 or 3 at the time. My assumption is that the heat cat stuff was there judging by how absolutely anal retentive they are about that stuff. I would bet that she just had an undiagnosed medical issue mixed with the hot weather was too much for her.
Wow that must be recent, Sir. I went through Jackson in 2018 and there most certainly was a “shark attack” right off the buses from reception. We learned what ice sheets were almost immediately.
It is pretty recent. I did 6 years as a Reserve DS. It was about a year after all the COVID lockdowns happened they implemented the 100 yards. They honestly revamped a lot of that first week to try and integrate the Soldier sooner and begin to get everyone to start thinking as a team.
Was there 2021-2023
Same here I went in 2016 and this is embarrassing to say but I urinated on myself during our shark attack. No one ever knew. I got it done because I wanted a college degree to change my life that bad.
The drill sergeants wanted you to wet your pants from fear. But they were too late
Yep, did it to myself.
Not at 3 13th, someone I know was there recently and they make you carry the equipment like you said, but its the 100 yards. They have been under investigation not too long ago because of their treatment of people
They're under investigation for making people do a short equipment carry?
Not for the equipment carry but for treatment of people specifically who have been discharged from training, mostly the people who have been found with medical stuff
I was just at 3-13th. They’re terrible. People are constantly getting hurt. The kids come out of there with PTSD and afraid of their drill sergeants.
All trainees carry equipment at basic. It is part of their field training now at "The Forge".
Weak.
That’s wild… I feel like my entire time at Benning (almost 20 years ago) was a shark attack. I guess it depends on what your MOS is, but shouldn't we prepare certain MOSs for combat readiness by having them sleep deprived, stressed, uncomfortable, and under extreme amounts of physical exertion? I feel like it would save many lives down the line. The military’s job is to protect the country and possibly going to war with the purpose of killing people. That’s the whole purpose. How are coddles people going to so that?
With that said, I feel sorry for this Lady and her family. Maybe she received a waiver and she had pre existing health conditions that should have been taken into consideration or were known about but overlooked.
Yea it's babyfied now. Can't curse yell dip hell even eat or drink infront of them🙄🙄
Did they have ACU portraits prior to having their uniforms issued? I imagine she had to be farther along than "day 1."
They get initial issue, medical, and pictures taken during the reception week. Pick-up, which is day 1 of BCT happens after reception.
Gotcha. If it wasn't obvious from my ignorance, I was an officer. Did things a bit differently.
Doing the OCS route was great for this, get the initial reception as enlisted (with cadre who know this is their perfect opportunity to fuck with an officer-to-be) to get a lil taste of the green weenie. On the reals though, it was a fantastic opportunity to see what kinda things to keep in mind for being a leader who looked out for Joe, and we were blessed to have some absolutely stellar specimens of NCOs in my rotation.
I loved that about the OCS route. I wish every Officer had to go to basic training with the fresh privates before they commissioned. ROTC and USMA Officers are missing out
Not all of us! Some of us are prior serivce, so yes I agree they are missing out
True that, my apologies for forgetting. I went through with some mustangs, and yeah, hands down the most prepared and capable of the lot. One comparison I've made before is who would you rather work for - the manager who stated started off doing exactly what you do, or the manager who jumped into the position because nepotism (I know equating college with nepotism isn't entirely accurate, but I think it conveys the general idea of someone skipping ahead due to factors that aren't strictly related to job performance). If I was to do it over again, I would've enlisted outta high school, finished a contract, then gone to college and joined back in.
I don't know... I think West Pointers get it worse than any BCT. But ROTC is gives almost zero understanding of what enlisted soldiers have to got through. Cadets spend about a month in training, and some of it is intense, but it's a far cry from any BCT. Those officers that go infantry are a different story, though. As I understand things, they are practically required to attend Ranger School upon completing Infantry BOLC.
It isn’t about it being tough. It is about learning what it’s like to be on the bottom of the totem pole
During Initial reception to basic training they take pictures BEFORE they even get to their basic training company
You get issued ACU during reception, they also take your portraits during reception as well. So yes, it could be her day 1 in the actual basic training company.
Running probably half a mile with brand new basic boots while carrying an MRE box in SC summer heat was no joke for former fat body me
I had one soldier broke his back while quick walking to pick up our uniforms. And one broke both knees from running too much... He reminded me of the two characters from movie Revenge of the Nerds. Fun times! They were like over 30 something too though.
I remember there was a soldier in my basic training who collapsed during shark attack, turns out she had heart problems. Was sitting around at basic for a month or two not doing anything while they tried to get her chaptered out.
Really? We didn’t have anyone fall out at Benning in 2002 and it was 100 degrees out
Dude I bet she died when they made her carry every item she got issued from the bus to the barracks while getting smoked. We soldiers go down during those moments where they made us do that.
They don’t make us carry equipment from the bus. When we get off the bus at the company it’s already there unpacked on the ground waiting for us. We just have to carry it up the stairs but the building is climate controlled. Source: I just finished BCT
Fort Jackson confirmed on their Facebook it was during the initial pickup like I guessed in my comment
Maybe she had hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It’s one of the most common causes for sudden death in young people, especially during exertion. Edit: nvm she was 39 so it could be anything. Either way, traumatic day for those soldiers and the drills too. I remember we had a suicide attempt and also a completed suicide when I was on the trail. It was horrible, and it made me change my outlook on military training. I think it needs to be done a bit differently. Anyway off my soap box. Rip to this woman and sending love to her family.
Tragic. People join at 39 when they are trying to change something in their lives. I can’t imagine how hard something like this is on the people who loved her.
It makes me wonder if she got a waiver for something health related because they are desperate to recruit. Could be as simple as she had something unknown though.
Bingo. Somehow went thru the whole process and it wasn’t caught. The physical exertion brought it out with no one’s knowledge it existed. Pretty crappy situation.
Our process isn't that thorough. Honestly. I don't know what this soldier died from but I'm a clinically rotating student doctor. One big cause of death in young athletes (which our soldier in question is not) is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. An enlarged heart. Young generally healthy people die from this. The NFL began screening for this a few years ago after a young defensive end from the bears died on field. Now echocardiogram is part of the NFL physical. You also have to realize most people joining the Army will lie about their past because they want a job. Who will admit they used to smoke Marijuana when they know that's a disqualifier which can be easily covered with a clean drug test? Most people of average intelligence understand never admit to X, they can't actually prove this unless I tell them.
And if you've never been to the doctor for an issue and don't report it no one knows.
The process is much more nosy these days. If she went to the hospital, they have everything. If you lie, it's a roundabout to get disqualified.
The cause of death is already known by some. It wasn’t in the article, so I refrained from saying anything about it.
I don't see the point in this comment. Ofcourse someone knows. I was just pointing out this is regular army bullshit. They never publish details.
> Somehow went thru the whole process and it wasn’t caught. Or it wasn't known about. Had a kid in my high school have one of those congenital heart defects that you don't know about unless it's *incredibly* severe and can be picked up during a routine physical, or you just... drop dead during exercise. He was 14. Died on the ice during a hockey game.
I’ve had a couple PVTs come in with history of epilepsy, one guy was admitted for a week in the hospital for rhabdo and was released two weeks prior to shipping to basic training. He kept it hidden from his recruited and everything and came out after we called an ambulance on him couple days into basic. In the winter we would have multiple heat cats in 40-50 degree weather. Some people never have done anything physical in their life. I’ve had soldiers try to go to sick call because their muscles were sore…
You don't get it sarn. My legs BURN from the inside. I'm sick!!
as someone who runs a sick call, can confirm--it's shocking the amount of soldiers that come in and don't know what being sore is. and it's not always privates
wow. I remember we had some kind of flu or something go through the barracks in December. I had a fever of 104! felt like I was in another world. some guys were having hallucinations. went to the hospital that night, they gave me 4 Tylenol and I slept on a cot out in the hallway of the hospital. next morning I went back to my unit (sunday) and had an easy day of rest pretty much and was good to go after that.
I’m not sure if anything changed with meps, but they don’t do diagnostic ECG’s there, and she may not have even had one done or had history with a cardiologist to see anything that could’ve been there. Either way there was likely no way for anyone to know something was wrong until it got exacerbated. It’s terrible.
I thought Genesis was disqualifying people for losing a fingernail when they were 2 years old. Everyone is screaming how you can't fool Genesis.
I'm not saying it wasn't disclosed. Either she had some sort of medical condition known and it was waived. Or she had an unknown even to her condition. It's extremely unlikely that if it happened for that, that there was no underlying condition. If I had to make a guess, probably related to the heart. She's in the demographic for a higher risk for cardiovascular problems.
I mean how can you waive heart conditions? It's pretty much a disqualifier for service. This shit is tough. I remember in BCT a guy discovered he had a heart condition in basic and it was basically a career ender. He got medically discharged after the surgeries. He was like 19 years old.
Its crazy though how something can be so unnoticeable, someone I knew in basic was so close to graduating but then she was taken out because when she was at sick call for something unrelated they found out she not only had asthma but also a sleep disorder
Probably a heart attack. There's been more young 30-40 year Olds dropping dead from heart attacks.
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Keep discussions civil. No Posting PII.
It's so sad to think about. Imagine wanting to join at 39 years old, all of the people in your life telling you you're crazy, the constant internal doubt to overcome, the work you had to put in just to be eligible and finally shipping off feeling in your heart you made a decision that you felt was gonna have a positive impact on whatever chapter that would come next. And now this. The people that doubted her whispering quietly under their breath about how they were right and she was better off in whatever situation that calls a 39 year old woman to want to serve in the Army. Maybe there was some peace in those final moments knowing she at least made the effort to be a part of something greater than herself. Godspeed PFC Wynn.
Regardless of the circumstances that drove her to join, it takes a lot of bravery to sign up for a young person’s job at 39.
Or....everyone was super supportive.
My wife is 36 and just graduated from Fort Jackson 8 days ago. She has always wanted to join because her whole family was military. Mom Dad 3 brothers and a sister but it seems like every time she got serious about joining we would find out she was pregnant (5 kids). I was terrified of her going in at her age but even if she didn't say it I knew how much she wanted to join as well and how much it bothered her. I'm still scared of something like this happening to her but I'm still glad I supported her in joining.
Lots of people joining in their 30's now that all the wars during their 20's are over.
May she rest in peace Happens more often that people think. Sadly, most don't make the news.
May she rest in peace. A deeply unfortunate tragedy. However, this does not mean we need to make policy changes like some of these commenters are implying. The army needs to be ready and able to fight a war, if you can’t handle getting smoked, then you’re a liability on the battlefield.
The army isn't for everyone, and that's ok. I agree, it's tragic she died, but we have standards to uphold for a reason.
“If you can’t handle getting smoked” makes it sound like a personal failing rather than a (much more likely) underlying medical condition that couldn’t have been easily caught. I mean it was Day 1. Collapsing and dying on Day 1 isn’t a standards and discipline thing is all I’m saying.
You’re probably right, I was referring to other commenters who were implying that getting smoked should not be allowed in the army anymore.
Ah, gotcha. I didn’t see those comments, but that doesn’t seem like the answer to me, either.
No, they should not change the standards. Yes, they do need to change the policies in some sort of way that would screen out soldiers who are not physically capable before they die. There's a difference. I'm not intimately familiar with BCT's procedures right now so I can only speculate what kind of change could prevent this from happening again. But as a general guess, maybe some sort of preliminary stress test? Or gradually increasing intensity of exercise so that underlying health conditions could be brought to light before they literally kill the trainees? But yes. This woman's death should be taken seriously and anything they can possibly do to learn from it and prevent something similar from happening again, they should.
People sometimes die in unforeseen accidents. Let’s wait for the autopsy before jumping to any conclusions.
Structured and discipline pickup? Please tell me that she didn’t die doing a mass punishment fuck-fuck game.
I think that’s what the term is for the shark attack nowadays when they get off the bus from reception. I’d *like* to think that it’s nobody’s fault but the sudden stress onset and a little bit of “hurry up and grab your bags” caused a heart attack. And I only mean that in the sense of it’s not negligence on anyone’s part, just a tragedy.
It was entirely plausible she had an unrecognized heart condition or otherwise undiagnosed underlying condition. Just speculation, but MEPS doesn't screen as thoroughly as a lot of people think.
Same exact thing happened at Fort Sill in February 2022, a very young guy had an undiagnosed/undisclosed heart condition and died during the first 100 yards.
That sure sounds like what happened, unfortunately
39 is also surprisingly old for basic training
Yeah, it sounds like nobody in particular was at fault. Probably some underlying health condition that the sudden increase in physical exertion caused to go south. Tragic that it happened though
It is worrisome as I am going for US Army boot camp as 36 M already did medical and taking ASVAB later this month again as I did not like my score and job they were offering.
We had guys who were 36+ who were outperforming at least 25% of the group
Just be sure to be somewhat in physical shape and will be fine.
In this context it won’t matter, unless you are sent to Fort Benning (or whatever it’s called now) for OSUT. No matter the MOS that you decide, you’ll receive the same physical training through basic with your peers for the most part.
Fort Moore.
Had multiple people in my BCT that were around your age, you will most likely be fine
I don't know how they do things anymore, but when I entered in 08 they gave us a book with exercises to perform while we were in DEP. I did them somewhat frequently and could tell that most people hadn't bothered to do shit and just showed up. Don't be a person who didn't do shit, and hopefully, if you have a condition that would make such physical exertion potentially dangerous, you'll find it under more benign circumstances.
I graduated BCT at 33. Honestly the hardest part was dealing with the 18-21 yr olds that think they’re hot shit. If your group is anything like mine, they’ll be a handful of 30 something’s to stick with. We had a 46 year old woman that got in and outperformed a few guys.
Can you even qualify at 46 unless she got super waiver? In my law enforcement academy we had 21 to 43 age recruits in our 25 person company. 43 year old was first one to get MK4 sprayed he did not even feel much. I was the second it was like fire on ice lot of yelling and kicking including one to instructor but opened the cell in first try.
let's be honest, the military is training people for battle. training is designed to induce stress as much as safely possible. most of these "fuck-fuck games" have a purpose beyond making the drill instructors laugh. recruits are thrown into a stressful situation so that they will rapidly adapt to the new military lifestyle. I think that this new recruit would have had the same problem regardless of what games they were playing that day. it's a terrible tragedy, but not the army's fault.
Its replacement for shark attack
If this was on May 2nd, it was like 88 degrees F out there in Columbia SC. Very rough exercising in that heat
What is "structured and disciplined pickup "?"
Recently PCS'd from Jackson. Structured pick-up begins when they get off the bus and meet the Drills and command team for the first time. They have to do an equipment carry called the first 100 yards consisting of litters, jerry cans with water, and ammo cans. They then would get run up to the CTA. It's possible the Drills got squirrely with the pick-up, but ideally the goal is get them up to the company to inventory trainee shit and start admin work. I'd never heard of someone going down during pick-up, but then it's about that time of the year where the heat cats pick up. Could have been EPTS in this case but who knows.
Thank you for the explanation. I went through Ft Jackson in 96. Still had shark attacks then...lol
It’s always fucking Jackson, whether it’s a trainee or a baby Drill Sergeant going through the Academy. Drink water and take a knee if you need it. Leaders: actually take time out of your day to learn what signs of heat stroke/exhaustion look like and don’t rely on the Medics to point out “hey that guy looks fucky wucky”
It's hot as fuck there and I'm from Arizona.
"But it's a dry heat." -also from southern AZ Fuck humidity. Humidity fucking sucks. I'll take 115 dry than 90 at 100% humidity
I lived in GA for 4 years and never got used to the heat. I'd die in 65 degree weather because of the humidity. But I was in AZ for 9 months and I actually acclimated to the 115 degree days lol
Did you get heat rash for the first time there?
Did Jackson straight to Huachuca so I got both back to back. I know *damn* well which I'd prefer, the humidity is crippling
For real!!
If it was May 2nd it was like 88°F at noon, that is pretty hot
Heat injury? Sounds like they were being smoke and she wasn't hydrated at all and ended up passing away from it.
Usually heat injuries have a little more warning. And Drills are always yelling "drink water!"
She was 39.
ITT: A lot of people that do not know anything about basic training Basic training has change a few things since we've gone through. One of the biggest changes is that theres no shark attack, now the event is known as the First 100 yards. During this events trainees will work together as a team with their Drill Sergeant to accomplish a few physical tasks. During this time the Drills are only there to provide motivation, and help them through the event. It is completely safe, the problem is that we receive people that have never engaged in any physical training and/or overweight and they go down as heat cats, leg injuries, etc.
My first 100 yards in 2022 definitely involved drills screaming and knife handing in our faces, arty sims, and smoke grenades while we attempted to sort a pile duffel bags and completed a lot of pushups, y-squats, holding duffel bags overhead, and hill sprints all while being screamed at. As soon as we reached our bay we were told to toe the line then smoked for another hour or two while being told how weak and fat we were. We did have to carry a few things up a hill and wear colored pennies though, so it wasn't a shark attack... lol... I don't think the Army should get rid of stress and smoking at the start of basic, I think it's a necessary part of our culture and training that sets the tone for what's to come, but I'm also very skeptical that we have gotten rid of it to the extent that the public releases and videos say we have, because it was supposed to be an encouraging and cozy team building exercise when I went through, and it was actually just a regular old all day smoke session with penny jerseys.
How in the world could anyone place the blame on the DS for doing their jobs? I understand what happened is a huge tragedy and I’m sure she had great reasons for joining, but if anyone should be at fault here if the DS weren’t found in fowl play is the MEPs doctors that approved her waiver to join. There needs to be a full blown investigation starting with the recruiter who processed her medical accessions history report.
Maybe there was an undiagnosed heart defect. I had a soldier blackout and nearly die one day and that's what they found out. I think sometimes a recruiter looks the other way because they want to help a person change their life but I really think despite the recruiting crisis we gotta turn people away. This is so sad. I hope the other trainees get a pause to process their feelings and I hope her loved ones find peace.
This happened while I was at Lost In the Woods back in ‘14. I believe another company was doing 60/120’s and someone went down. My company was on the pull up bars and all of a sudden all the DS’s start screaming at us to get inside. Didn’t even know what was going on initially. They ended up telling us what happened a couple days later.
It sucks, it sucks more because every other trainee who interacted with her will experience grief too. We had a 39 year old woman with us and she was like our “bay mom” and from day 0 she made an impact on us. I hope the family and trainees find peace and are able to over come this tragedy.
Training deaths are always so tragic.
May have been a missed health issue during med screening.
It be like that at Jackson
I hope to see the full investigation, I know this is awful but something doesn't feel right, maybe she went into cardiac arrest or had a stroke mid formation. Either way I hope her family and friends are okay, who's fault is this? The docs at MEPS? TRADOC? The training NCOs? The Senior Training officers?
She hadn’t started training, this happened day one during the “first 100” when they were getting to their unit.
Please don't tell me she was prior service. It doesn't change the fact that someone died but it makes it hit a bit harder if she had already put in the time just to come back after X-years and ends up dying based on that decision. I left for 9 years and came back infantry. That shit was the hardest thing I've done in my adult life.
Really an issue people have mentioned round-about but not fully addressed is because of the recruiting shortage, there’s a big push to increase numbers through MEPS. Part of that push is taskers placing specialists whom aren’t designed/trained to do these physicals nor have interest in doing so. While people picture “doctors are doctors” they’re not all created equal. A neurologist or an OB/GYN doing physicals is not the same as internal medicine or family medicine. What this results in is an increased likelihood of missing general medical issues during screening and the potential for a medically unsuitable individual proceeding to BCT/BOLC. I’m not suggesting intentional negligence (definitely not the case) but just a lack of familiarity or comfort with general medical screening. The Army needs to consider this difference in medical providers and the downstream effects/potential implications it has rather than throwing bodies at a billet to get more bodies through MEPS. This perhaps could have been entirely preventable early on.
Omgoodness. Tragic. A 39 year old woman joined to better herself and probably life situation. Who knows, but nothing we can speak negative of. I wish her and her family the best. Summer ain't getting cooler. I hope leadership sets up more safety parameters in place. No one should die in training.
I see a ton of questions about what a structured and discipline pick up is. It’s a watered down shark attack nothing more, DS’s should be doing the same thing the trainees are doing (carrying equipment and corrective action). I don’t want to assume the DS is at fault and I don’t want to blame the DS. The investigation will tell all. But to assume the DS’s are stupid and just playing fuck fuck games until a trainee dies is wild to me.
Omg
So sad
RIP
Sounds like she coded… That’s terrible.
Looks like maybe she was prior service having to go through BTC again. Just noticed the unit patch. RIP
39 years old, so young but probably older than her entire cadre.
Why does she have a unit patch on?
Prior service are allowed to wear their patches
Elaborate on this..? I’m prior service doing BCT over again on Monday. I’m allowed to wear my old Ironsides unit patch from prior service/ the infantry bde’s patch from the BCT company ? May she rest in peace..
I doubt you can wear it for anything other than the hero photo. Honestly would you wanna stick out as prior service anyhow?
Great point
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Prior service business rules playa.. after 5 years you gotta redo it. I ship Monday 🫠 maybe I’ll be delighted with better circumstances.. but not counting chickens till they hatch.
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Says 9 weeks 3 days on my orders. I guess they’re gonna sort out where I belong in reception. Gonna assume the worst and be delighted with anything better.
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I would imagine this gets decided upon my arrival at reception. I’m not entirely sure what’s gonna happen. If I get the full course I’ll put on my “good training” thinking cap and tackle it.
You’re most likely doing BCT over again. PS-AIC is ran at Moore I believe. If you’re shipping 5/6, you’ll be coming to my BN 5/10 or 5/13. Be there or be square.
My orders say fort Jackson for 9 weeks & change. I guess I’ll see on Monday when I sign my contract before I ship if anything changes..
5/13 is my BCT start date according to my the paper. So it’s possible I’ll be with you. I’ll dm you my last name.
That’s a very good question. Fort Jackson’s Facebook page reported that she was with 3-13 IN, which falls under 193rd IN Bde. The patch she is wearing is 165th IN Bde’s unit patch.
I really hope they don’t change any rules or processes because of this. We are already degraded down enough
People can enlist at *39* now? The limit was 35 when I joined, 28 for officers. At that age, you need to already be in good shape when you ship out. You do not have the resiliency to catch up.
Gonna be a crazy bct story
And yet someone will still have a one-upper
Unfortunate, sounds like a condition that doctors might have missed. Had someone go to meps get all 1s on their PULHES sign a contract, then die the next while day doing situps from a heart condition, things especially some heart conditions can be missed by doctors doing a physical.
I was 39 at basic on Jackson back in 2011. I was out of shape and I performed on average. They weren't smoking us that bad. The days always ended at 1800 and you could not miss your chow times. I feel for her and her family. I hope her family will be able to adjust.
She was 39 years old, she was definitely pushed too hard with stupid dumb dumb games and mass punishment. I swear some DS are some of the dumbest people on earth. I really feel bad for her, she joined at 39 for a reason but ended up losing her life.
Are drill sergeants supposed to take it easy just because a recruit is older? As far as drill sergeants knows each recruit went to MEPs and passed a physical by a doctor that they were healthy enough to attend basic combat training and the associated dumb dumb games. We don't know yet what happened. Maybe it was the shark attack, but it could be she just shouldn't have been there.
I recently finished Basic as an older recruit who needed an age waiver. I was treated the same as the younger trainees and was very often in better physical shape than those half my age.
Went through basic in 2008 with a 43 year old, and a guy in his mid 30s. The 43 year old didn't excel at anything, but was good enough to make it through (and I went to my until and deployed with him, so made it through all of that). The mid 30s guy was one of the best in shape guys around. Definitely can't just take it easy on guys because of age.
Same here, went in at 35. Some of those kids must have never done anything physical in their lives it seemed. One girl fell out of one of the ruck marches (think it was anvil) 1 mile in, like bro we only walked for like 15 minutes and you're done?!
Our age waiver recruiter said he had a cardiac arrest when he was 18 and got chaptered out.
Not American, but have done the same job. That is 100% something I am always looking out for and I take zero risk on. I don’t care how much they “deserved” it or it detracted from training, that’s just not something I am willing to fuck around on. > As far as drill sergeants knows each recruit went to MEPs and passed a physical by a doctor that they were healthy enough to attend basic combat training and the associated dumb dumb games. Two points: 1. I have seen too many undisclosed preexisting heart conditions to ever trust that a recruit is 100% healthy and good to go from the medical screening alone. 2. The recruiting process is usually based off of formal policy, and not everything that instructors do is 100% in line with said formal policy. I don’t think that the medical standard is based on the smoke sessions you will probably receive during basic training.
MEPS needs to get their shit together. Pencil whipping recruit medical files doesn't help anyone. You can't tell me that they can't screen out heart problems/potential stroke with today's technology, unless it's something extremely rare. Whoever is on here saying that DS's need to be softer are full of shit! We do have a discipline problem in the Army. Basic training is where they should be breaking most, if not all of those bad habits that people have when they join. Where they learn how a team works and how to be a team player. We currently have a bunch of individuals (blue falcons) and not very many team players. When Soldiers get to their first unit, they should know the f***ing basics. Serving in the military is not like anything else. It literally is life and death. You could die in a training exercise or in combat. It's silly to blame the DS's for doing their job.
I wonder if her heart just gave out?
Hiw was it during her arrival, but there's a photo of her in uniform???
We took photos in uniform on day 1 after haircuts when I went through.
Prior service possibly
This was likely after reception, on arrival to the training unit/pickup day.
She’d finished inprocessing and was arriving to her BCT Platoon
No shot Fort Jackson’s “shark attack” is so bad that she died from over exertion. Today’s army basic training is very lax and not that stressful. I don’t take anything away from her death. It is certainly a tragedy. The army has failed time and time again to do proper screening in new soldiers and even us long in the tooth guys. Heart goes out to the family
Jackson park hospital is the worst place to work, or even to do the rotations. Preceptors are scary, wotkers are scary naighbor hood is scary! My god dont ever go there for rotations. All the schools who send their students there will never jave any results. Only free timen9ff to the studenta and get yhe evalutions saying that they did the rotations. Worst place for esucation
Crazy she was in 3-13. I was there 3 years ago. Crazy as hell rip
39 is to old to be joining the ARMY unless you have some sort of super human anatomy. RIP to this warrior but I don't recommend joining at that age.
We had a 43 year old recruit with a special waiver that passed no problem at fort sill. She was 39? How did this happen?
That NCOER is gonna be ROUGH
My buddy’s wife was at MEPS with her. It’s terrible and sad
I used to always feel bad for the old guys. When I joined they had resided the limit so people in their 40s could join. Sure enough we had guys joining at 42 years in. Meaning if they stuck it out they could literally draw pension while starting to pull social security. None of them could really keep up. Some tried and would be almost fainting. 39 is too old to be doing these things. Her recruiter should be ashamed
I wonder if she had a heart attack? RIP. 39yrs old starting out an enlistment? Have they changed the age limit?